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Red Hat Teams with Real Networks
GregGardner writes, "According to this press release, RedHat and Real Networks are teaming together to bring Real products to Linux. RealServer 7.0 and RealPlayer 7.0 will be physically bundled with RedHat and that RealPlayer 7 will be released for Linux within 30 days on Real's Web site. "
looks as if its the Real SERVER, not the player.The player must be too complicated for their linux developers to handle correctly.
For those who were misled by other posts here, yes, it is RealServer *and* RealPlayer 7.
I'd have to say that you're a clueless newbie who doesn't know that the proper way to set off a signature is with two underscores.
Sorry, Real Audio sucks. It's like listening to a distant AM Radio on a Salvation Army radio with a speaker made from a tin can. There's no reason to use it whatsoever.
will it sound better than it does in Windows?
And of course, a variant of this is in the ports collection. Check out ${PORTS}/net/elsa and ${PORTS}/net/rtsp_proxy for the firewall app. You still need to create the "hinted" quicktime files, but my friend made files on his winbox that streamed quite well from my BSD box.
Don't dismiss the possibility! Saw an interview recently (can't remember where, but another /.er might) where Microsoft said they were looking at porting media player to the Linux platform!
You can't follow simple instructions, therefore the product sucks. Is it really that hard to type '/path/to/real/rvplayer %s' into the little box?
It was designed to support any type of multimedia - somebody just needs to write a plugin.
Now all /Linux/ users can have the contents of /their/ drives listed and sent to Real! O Joyous Day!
Has anybody found any GOOD content on a Real stream? I have yet to see anything worth watching.
Will these be binary releases only or will source code be made available?
.ram) files?
Duh?!?!? Is there ANY open source software development companies out there making money?
Will it be as bloated with useless crap as the Windows version is? Or can we opt to run it in stripped-down method?
probably bloated, need you ask even ask?
Is this version going to be collecting information on us the way the Windows version does?
Most likely so
ow portable is this going to be to other distros and sister OS platforms like BSD, as well as hardware platforms like Mac, Sparc, Alpha, etc?
Yer all outta luck
Will content creation (Real Producer) software be following? Or are we still having to waste disk space for a Windows partition?
There's already realproducer for linux out there.
Aren't there other software packages in Linux that have plugins that'll already play Real Media (.rm,
Nope, there's an SDK for 'unix' but it sucks ass.
Where the hell is his documented? In the netscape docs or real docs or what. Show me a link on netscape's or real's web page, file name, etc.
When the stream is paused RealPlayer uses this decrease in workload to buffer more of the clip. This explains why it consumes so much resource when paused.
According to http://www.realnetworks.com/products/r edhat/
it'll cost $2995, and serve 60 streams.
try .Options->Preferences->Upgrade->Turn off upgrade notification for 30 days.
You sir are a pathetic alter ego fake! Get a life and stop trying to impersonate the TRUE Anonymous Coward. You suck! You are giving the REAL Anonymous Coward a bad name with your obscene and offtopic comments, go crawl back under the stable Linux computer (also known as a rock) from which thou came, you ignorant nincompoop!
This is one of the PHB negotiated moves on the part of RedHat. Realplayer is keen on keeping their format and encoders closed and dumping all sort of content (also known as junk) on their users. The only reason they are porting it to Linux is that Microsoft is encroaching on their turf. RedHat agrees to bundling it since it builds partnerships (PHB word). But it does not do anything for us. Stick to icecast. It is strange that RedHat is back to bundling commercial software. I remember when RedHat dropped Motif and backed GTK to the hilt - that was truely heroic. Pity that they don't feel the same way about this issue. Then again, it is better than having Microsoft control the streaming audio world.
With W2K you get port-level control and can shut down the narsty lil' ports too.
There's also now a key in the 'security' control panel area to enable non-encrypted Samba support. Built right into the system. No more need to apply untrusted "*.reg" registery patches.
And RedHat has embraced them. And morons are happy about this. Welcome to planet-irony.
And that's all he is, searching desperately for loving from his cold, hard, bitch-master who barely acknowledges him, except to occasionally talk dirty to him in private, and belittle his company in the press. Rob should have stayed at M$ where he would have been a good little bitch doggy. All bitch doggies want to go home, eventually.
XMMS doesn't support video.
yer caught in the undertroll
Help get RealPlayer for Linux/PPC! They need to see that there is enough interest to warrant a PPC version, so please send 'em an email!
Wow, a Win95 machine that's messed up and crashing! You should submit that to Ripley's Believe It Or Not.
Redhat's "commitment" to free software only went as far as their political agenda.
Remember not so long ago Redhat went out of their way to FUD KDE and Qt, getting on their high-horse about software licenses and whatnot? Many of us pointed out "But you ship Netscape and Real and MySQL and those have worse licenses!". Redhat's answer was to reveal their official backing of GNOME.
Redhat's "commitment" is just political balderdash. In the case of KDE they did it to promote their own GNOME project...they only promote "free" software if it can be used to augment their own name.
The end result of that fiasco was the birth of Mandrake.
You sir are a pathetic alter ego fake! Get a life and stop trying to impersonate the TRUE hemos. You suck! You are giving the REAL hemos a bad name with your obscene and offtopic comments, go crawl back under the rock from which thou came, you ignorant nincompoop!
Both of thier products suck ass. I have never got it to associate the streaming properly when clicking on a link. I can manually edit the application associating in Netscape and it launchse the app, but doesn't do anything. I hate it. You know you'd think the installer would do that kind of stuff properly. I really wish Microsoft would port IE and the Media Player to Linux. IE on Solaris kicks ass!
Did they really take this "feature" out or just disguise it better? With closed source, you can never really know until it's too late.
I SURE hope that the new realplayer is WAY better than that damn 6.0 'alpha' crap they laid on us. Maybe it will actually play streams longer than 1 hour, or re-buffer without s-st-st-st-uttering, or not inexplicably disappear like netscape does, or has a video feed that looks like crap, or not crash when I have more than one sound card. Maybe, just MAYBE there's a non-open source company writing programs for linux that actually WORK.
Thats funny, I seem to remember using real encoder for linux about 6 months ago.... I guess tyou just didnt dig enough on there web site.
Red Hat this, Red Hat that... I'm sick of it. Maybe if their Linux distro didn't suck so hard I wouldn't mind.
Why couldn't Slack or Debian IPO, make millions and be forming alliances with other companies. It just pisses me off that the worst of the pack gets it all.
Plan:
1. Create new distro.
2. (I'll figure it out, someday)
3. Make Millions.
--Mike
Why is the above fella a troll? What does that make me?
__ While you sleep, I creep... gaining ground by the week.
What do you mean "MS could make linux a second-class web browsing platform"? It already is. Netscape is buggy beyond all belief. Not one day goes by that it just exits for no reason or segfaults leaving a nice core dump. I have a cron job just to clean those up. Face it, right now the seperior browser is IE. Joe user doesn't care netscape sticks to standards better, all he knows is IE loads pages faster and doesn't crash. Now I hear you suggesting Mozilla, which could be good one day, but now its barely alpha code. Until I see the finished product nothing will change. The reason you haven't seen realplayer 7 for linux is because most of their income is from big companies who buy tons of licenses for the players, so thats where the focus is kept. They can't make money from linux clients because none of you would pay for it.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Unless I've been dreaming, RealNetworks and Red Hat have been working together since 1998, maybe earlier. All of RN's Linux offerings seem to come in Linux and Red Hat Linux flavors, Red Hat has shipped servers and players with their commercial distributions in the past...
I don't see what the big news is. Perhaps this is yet another in a long line of press releases that hope to capitalize from the word "Linux" included within? I know Red Hat was involved with this PR, but come on, they've been working with RN for a long time! This was done to benefit RN. I'm sure of it.
Linux PRs are getting ridiculous... They used to have real content, but now they're just put out to help someone's stock go up. What a joke.
Calm down, nobody would ever confuse this guy with the "TRUE hemos". This guy actually knows how to spell.
>>maybe it has something to do with Alpha not being produced anymore
Huh? Alpha is not dead. Hell, you can even get a new EV6 (21264-based) Alpha for $3k from API's resellers! (http://www.alpha-processor.com)
And when Wildfire comes out from Compaq, it will set a new standard of FAST! All powered by Alpha.
I'm looking forward to this, but I'm currently fuming mad at Real. They released their ALPHA G2 crap last MAY - 9 months ago! Promised a beta by the end of last year, and it never showed up! My favorite radio station is available on the Internet and I need Real to hear it. It works, but crashes randomly a few times an hour. I'm getting sick of it, and I want a stable player! Is this too much to ask???
They make money by selling server licenses, but they need to produce quality clients for all platforms to have any respect whatsoever.
A couple days ago I sent them an E-mail asking what's up with the beta (trying to be as polite as possible). They never responded.
So it looks like Real doesn't give a crap about their customers (or at least the people that listen to their customers' audio), but they have another chance to prove themselves.
DON'T BLOW IT AGAIN GUYS!!!
Take a look at WMP with a packet sniffer for a while.
Take a look at the msword document format.
Do you really think you're protecting yourself?
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/00 0222/realnetwor_4.html
Yep, looks like Yoohoo yanked it.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
I'd love to see Apple step up with QuickTime support for Linux as well.
Well, I'd love to see them support QuickTime on Linux AT ALL.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
What's to keep real from adding lines such as 'audio/x-wav: rvplayer %s'?
--
>maybe it has something to do with Alpha not being produced anymore
but they are still in production and doing just fine at kicking x86 ass.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
...linux is a multiuser, secureable system. This is not winXX we're talking about here. There are lots of ways to isolate a program.
Easiest is to create a user: "realuser" and run all "Real" apps from there.
You know, su - realuser....
Another is to chroot it.
Another is to use tcpdump to see what the app wants to talk to, then use the firewall facilities to block access to real's servers.
Try junkbuster.org for some more ideas...
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
While I do understand how to box their nosy player in so that it can't do spy reports on me, I am also just not very interested in their product.
It is rather dissappointing to see RH teaming up with the MPAA(indirectly or not). I've got to admit, I tried SuSe 6.1 when it came out and was tempted to dump RH, but I preferred gnome to kde and didn't want to bother converting. After this, I think that my next upgrade cycle will not include RH.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
That's a good bit of sucking right there.
Oh, We can scratch our heads when Real buys Xing. Yes we can all laugh at the poor job that Xing did, leaving a gaping hole for dear Jon J. to pry open. We can all get angry at the buggy G2 release Real did for x86 linux. We can be shocked at the privacy violations that came out of the same company.
So far, Real does not have a "very good track record" or to put it simply, they suck.
What do you think our reaction should be when RH joins them?
Now for some constructive criticism: In response to your earlier post about "no open source projects that offer Real streams..." how about this:
Buy Real. I know that RH can afford it. Talk about a "Real" killer app! Fire all of the execs from Real and a choice number of their programmers. Open the code and let us all make it better. Let linux, on ANY hardware architecture, be the prefered platform for Real streaming servers rather than an alternative.
Open the DVD license from Xing and let us build a legal player for free software. Bang! YAKA(yet another killer app) will be available in a matter of moments.
Is that enough constructive criticism for today?
Does RH have any response to this proposal?
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Nope. Heck, nobody does that, not even Debian (hence the "non-free" category).
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
This is called keeping up with the competition. If a competitor makes a move, either you respond to it or you ignore it. Companies that do the latter tend to go out of business.
RedHat doesn't want to create anything new.
It's not RedHat's job to create anything new! RedHat is a distribution. They collect all kinds of software from various locations and put it together on one nice CD-ROM for you so you don't have to hunt all that junk down and compile it yourself. That's what distributions are for. Software developers come up with new things. Distributions just package it all up nice for you. If you want new things, write some new software! Don't expect distributions to, it's not their job, it's ours...
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Of *course* its the same. And last time I checked the Realplayer 6.0 had a busy wait that makes it pin my CPU meter whenever its playing.
Also, I don't know where you get off saying that Red Hat is a Microsoft "clone"; does Microsoft:
I suggest its time to lose your "i'm so alt, i'm so hip" anti-Red Hat attitude; they have done more good for Linux than any other commericial entity. (And no, I'm not a shareholder or anything like that.)
P.S: That's why Rasterman left.
I couldn't be happier that Rasterman left. Now I won't have to put up with his WM as the default on my RH box. All he ever did when he was at Red Hat was add themes to GTK+; not really an essential component for World Domination.
But I just can't bring myself to like them. The privacy invasion, the spamming, the half-assed "look! we're hip to this Linux thing" way in which they have supported Linux, it all turns me off in a big way. They're so cheap. I'm actually sad that they're going to be getting good vibes from a lot of Linux users now.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
RealVideo and WMT Video do something that no non-proprietary video codecs can - bring reasonable video at low bitrates. It isn't all just DCT, there are supposedly wavelet elements in Real's video as well. Plus the devil is in the details, motion prediction and coefficient quanitization is a general concept, whether it fits down the pipe or not means spending a large amount of R&D time and money on figuring out the precise details of motion prediction and quantization.
But of course, I'd like to see an open source low-bitrate video codec. If you think you can write one, please do, and let us at The Sync take a look at it, if it works reasonably well, I'll be the first person to help you popularize it.
True. One of the problems I see with MPEG is that it leaves so much open to the encoder. It's hard to know exactly what settings produce the right quality/bitrate, and this is where things like RealPlayer are attractive. They've spent a lot of time and money researching these things and the result is a good low bitrate default, which is what most people are looking for. However, I feel that MPEG could do comparable things with the right settings.
As for an open source video codec, I have the dead tree version of the MPEG-1 spec (ISO 11172) and I've been throwing around the idea of writing a good parallel encoder (the Berkeley one is horribly scary). It's really just a matter of finding enough time and patience to sit down and do it.
I think you missed my point here. I don't want to support these OSes. I just want the standards that people are using on the internet to be open. Then if someone cares, they can port something to whatever operating system they happen to like using.
Personally, I'm sad to see support for Unix systems (other than Linux x86) declining. RealPlayer is still at version 5 for most Unix platforms. I don't really care on a personal level whether BeOS (for example) has the latest and greatest support for audio streaming. But I don't think that a smaller niche OS should be prevented from using a particular internet standard just because it isn't in the interest of a particular company to develop a client for that platform. That's the major problem with proprietary formats, and I don't think Linux users should be placated by the extension of this closed format to the x86 platform. Everyone else still gets left behind.
"I believe that the cult of the particular brings only death - for it bases order on likeness." St.-Exupery
It can't. Remember that Linux user don't have a ridiculously convoluted mechanism for determining default apps for file types (suffixes/mime types) yet. RealPlayer can't take over MP3s according to the "system" because there's no such thing as an associated system file type. Perhaps your GNOME or KDE settings can be changed, but that's on a user-by-user basis. And you can always change them back.
- Richie
I just tried going to the PR link, and all there was was a page with a single line of text saying the atricle has been removed. Whassup?
Let's see Icecast is 10,000 times better than real audio. the RA player is bloatware at it's finest. Their "compression" schema is a joke at best.
Do I need to go any farther?
the ONLY thing they have is the streaming video, and there are linux things that do that (I forget where, I hate streaming video, it wastes bandwidth) Icecast has buried realaudio in every way (ok shoutcast started it, but at least icecast was a free alternative that is kicking butt)
I am all for commercial software, as long as it dont suck.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
That's just Microsofts way of saying "no. now shut up and go away."
** The test that we did was hook up 2 machines to a hub and that hub was connected to a DSL. The NT machine was a 450PIIMhz with 128 Meg of RAM and the Linux box was a P200MMX with 64Meg of ram. In testing the line speed, the Linux box had 63k uploads / 491k downloads and the NT box had 53k uploads / 423k downloads. So Linux was faster on a slower box. Don't take my word, test this at home yourself and you be the judge. This is not something I care to argue, it is what I experienced. Part of the problem I should state is that this is pppoe, and NT4 does not have good support for this.(AFAIK).
My experience with Linux vs Win NT/95/98 is that Linux 2.2.14 and Redhat 6.1 is actually more stable as a client. My roommate's win 95 machine is always crashing. My father upgraded to Win 98 and now Outlook and IE do not work (go figure). I have NT on my Linux box, and it always crashes when I add new hardware. The MIS department where I work wont support a windows machine that is not rebooted daily. This is my experience, so yours may differ.
In a choice in spending 289 for Windows ro $29 for Redhat, I'll take Redhat (especially there 1.89 cdrom's.)
Don't be lame and single out one sentance of this take it as a whole and as 3 peoples experiences with windows and Linux....
send flames > /dev/null
Only 'flamers' flame!
The Yahoo news item that was cited as the press release is no longer there. Neither the RedHat nor the Real sites seem to mention this. Was this a false rumor or an early leak? Anyone have more info?
I'll say it again, we are nowhere near and probably never will be near, this concern. Just because it's "Made for RedHat" doesn't mean it won't work just fine on other distros. Linux is Linux. Now getting official support, that may be annother matter. Vendor support needs to be distro neutral, the configuration differences between distros are too small for there to be any technical reason why they cannot support every Linux distro out there. It would be more helpful for them to say, "We support Product-X with Linux 2.2.x and GLIBC 2.1".
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
at least real and redhat have worked out a way to get the server on linux as well as the player, as that's the more likely, useful application of the agreement.
anyhoo, i would really like to see quicktime work on linux as well (hell, for a while, quicktime was even using a penguin mascot).
the argument has been in the past that 'it's the codecs, stupid' and those will never be open sourced or distributed without licences. oh well. give me the darwin streaming server running on *BSD or linux and i'll be happy.
the server's the thing..
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
He's not giving Hemos any kind of bad name... (that is quite posabily the objective however)
he is a clear and obveous faker and we can all see him for what he is...
Byond that I'm in total agreement with your sentiment... especally the rock comment
I don't actually exist.
Am I the only one who cant stand to listen to RealPlayer's audio? That metallic quantinization noise is horrible. Mp3 does a much nicer job of hiding the bad stuff.
-Scott scott@surrealistic.org
I committed the error of installing RealPlayer G2 on a W95 box a while back. Now, if I want to hear a .ra file, I am always treated to an "upgrade notification" when the player starts up - and the choices in the dialog box are "learn more" and "remind me later." No "go away and never come back" option to be found - and it still sounds like canine flatulence on a good day.
I would much prefer that efforts be directed toward producing lightweight MPEG codecs to enable streaming. Face it, at low bitrates nothing is going to sound much better than AM radio bounced off the E-layer.
In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
I haven't used spinner but I have xmms working with some streaming mp3 sites under netscape 4.7 and without using xswallow (which I use for xanim). I looked at spinner.com; it's realplayer only. XMMS will not work on it. You might want to avoid associating .rpm with realplayer just to make spinner.com work (.rpm files being common on several distros).
/dev/null (otherwise, something about "no libmkmod" comes up in a pop up window every time you use xmms). This is all it does (you'll need to chmod +x and put it somewhere on your path, or specify the full path name).
/dev/null
This is what I know about getting xmms to stream mp3s:
To get my.mp3.com to work I had to create a new mimetype entry ("applications" under preferences).
Description: Playlist
MIMEtype: audio/x-mpegurl
Suffixes: m3u, mp3
Application: xmms.sh %s
To get shoutcast to work I had to create a new mimetype:
Description: Shoutcast
MIMEtype: audio/x-scpls
Suffixes: pls
Application: xmms.sh %s
I use xmms.sh (a wrapper script) to pipe the stderr messages from xmms to
#!/bin/sh
#this is xmms.sh
xmms $1 >&
This is great news--an example of why it pays to have companies behind at least some of the distros. Now it's time for the community to do its part: keep lobbying all of the web sites using WMP and Quicktime to switch to RealPlayer. Even if they don't all change over, it shouldn't take many of them supporting Real to force Micro$oft and Apple to realize that they need to start supporting the Linux platform, too.
A year or so ago, didn't RedHat claim they were going to distribute only free software? I remember them using this argument to explain why certain long-standing rpm packages suddenly disappeared from the CD (like xsnow).
I guess this is just another example of the difference between "committed" and "involved". Like with a ham and egg breakfast: The chicken is involved, the pig is committed.
--
Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Ok,
I know this has nothing to do with RealPlayer but does anyone know of a player that reads windows media player stuff on Linux?
If you know of something like this please mail me at "aurag at geocities.com"
I watch a TV station (arabic one) that has for some reason decided to use Windows Media player technology!
Kill Microsoft? No! Just hire their GUI guys!
It'd be nice to play non-MP3 audio from my BSD music server...
Of course, (heresy alert) I really want Microsoft's player released more- their client seems not as concerned about bandwidth as realaudio's, and as a result looks and sounds better over a higher bandwidth connection.
stored on computers from birth to the grave
Why do you want to do that? Why don't you support the v2 assembly OS as well? The only thing go against Windows the desktop OS is that it charges your first born to use it and ties you with low quanlity stuff. The reason people use linux is that they can never take it away frem you.
/_____\. .......|
Be can always take around and charge your ass. IBM has already taken os/2 away from the users. What exactly is the justification you have to support these OSes? That you can't apply to V2 the assembly OS?
cy
vvvvvvv../|__/|
...I../O,O....|
...I./
..J|/^.^.^ \..|.._//|
...|^.^.^.^.|W|./oo.|
Actually, I think the GPL only prohibits a proprietary program linking with yours, not your program linking with a closed library. So, if I'm correct, it would be perfectly fine to release front ends for the Real player.
Also, no one said anything about there being "official" KDE or GNOME front ends. I can write a GNOME program without giving it to the FSF, of course. As long as I don't break the GPL, I'm good to go.
I don't do sigs.
Nice and all... but I think this release illustrates one of Linux's main weaknesses. New products go to the Windows OS first.
I will get the Realplayer 7 and use it, even though it is out for Windows already, simply because it is the best streaming media player (IMO). I also think bundling with RealPlayer RedHat is a great idea.
Should one arise, however that came out for Linux first, I should switch instantly...
(in no way shape or form is the comment above a troll or flamebait... it simply expresses an opinion)
Is it progress if a cannibal uses a fork?
Dude, Darrel.
:)
Get back to work dude. You know we got all sorts of tickets....
--George the weekend Linux guy at rackspace.com
-- My neighbors dog has a four inch clit.
Not to mention that they are among the top two or three corporate spammers. Not only do they harvest addresses, but according to reliable regular posters on news.admin.net-abuse.email, Real Networks has been caught performing "dictionary" attacks against mailservers. That's basically picking a domain and attempting to send spam to every combination of characters that looks like it might possibly be a deliverable address in that domain: alice@example.com, bob@example.com, charlie@example.com, and so on. The load on other people's mail servers is tremendous, and of course by definition it's unsolicited. (If you'd wanted their advertising, they wouldn't have to guess your address, would they?)
MAPS, a service known for being rather conservative about who gets listed as a spam source, has had Real Networks on their RBL (sort of a voluntary spam filter service) for months. I don't know of any other "legitimate" company that's been RBLed for more than a couple of weeks.
Long story short, besides all their other faults, Real Networks is an unrepentant corporate spamhaus. It's too bad Red Hat has gotten into bed with them.
Perhaps it can be forced to run as user "nobody". If you've done a decent job of locking down the box's file permissions that should keep it under wraps. Just be sure the real packages don't set the suid bit on any of those files! Another way would be to run the Windows version under vmware using a highly deprecated virtual partition. Okay, so you'll need an 800Mhz Athlon to do it...at least it could be done. For that matter, a more active approach could be taken. Run a packet sniffer while Real does it's things and look for naughty stuff on all of the ports. Once we know what port they're using, direct that crap straight to /dev/null.
The conspiracy is actually that no 'news source' is ever going to want to post Linux-related articles for fear that their servers will be DoS'd, er, I mean, slashdotted.
/. in their marketing,
Now THAT is a website with power.
Who needs portals? Next ya know, startups will be using
"...plan to become the slashdot of the e-commerce world"
Thus it begins
Kinda like Moe, but just a little more Kool
Real has gotta make money somehow....their player is free, their 'plus' player costs $$, but I don't know anyone who's bought it myself. Same model as Netscape had- give away the client and try to make $$ on the backend.
However, I don't like how he basic Real player incorporates ad banners- at all. It's one reason I choose WMP many times. If Real is gonna charge so much for the server, and ask for $$ for the plus player, they could certainly make effort to slim down their basic player- No Banners!
Kinda like Moe, but just a little more Kool
I agree, though it's kinda scarey to see a specific distro tie-in like this. So what if everyone runs to Red Hat first, and doesn't offer their products to the other distros? Couldn't that effectively kill off the commercial viability (of linux?! ;) of the others? What is made for one Linux distro should be made available to ALL Linux distros- sell your brand on your support.
;)
Anomalous Canard==Anormal Duck? (French to Eng babblefish
Kinda like Moe, but just a little more Kool
>starting to sound a little like a lobbiest group.
:)
This is a good thing. This eventually is what I think what we (linux users) all want. More products for us to chose from.
We might not get the source but at least we get more toys to play around with.
Sometimes big companies are useful.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Excuse my ignorance, but I was checking out the page for RealServer, and now my face is stuck in this irritable-bowel fashion and I can't fix it. The server costs $2,995?! I thought it was a typo until later I noticed that this price was $800 off the regular price! Can someone tell me how $2,995 is a justifiable price for this?
www.poak.net
Great now I'll get "Open Source" spam from Real Inc.
Non gratis rodentus anus
Yet another "big" product, coming over to Linux. I like this.
:P
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
With the upcoming K "Office" and KDE2. Maybe, just maybe, I'll finally make Linux my main way of working, and only use Windows when I need Photoshop and Dreamweaver etc (No, GIMP is NOT anywhere like as good as Photoshop5.5).
I'm about to reinstall NT, becuase Real Player doesn't seem to work with SP6, and Illustrator is playing me up.
Hmm, I've gotten off topic here. But yeah, this is yet another boost. You think Adobe and Macromedia will follow suit?
Mong.
* Paul Madley
*...Slacker, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Remember: Nothing is Cool.
I don't know if it would work under emulation or not. As a FreeBSD user, I can say a native version would be preferred.
I wonder how long it would take Real to port their player to BSD if M$ ported their player to BSD first? I bet within a month.
So does this mean, with my ati tv tuner and gatos working, that I could broadcast realtime video from my box?
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Marginalization has resulted in good, cheap, hardworking, lots of interchangeability of X86 hardware!! This is a good thing! We only need one platform.. and we only need one OS. :-)
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
I'm sorry, but all of the software I've ever had from Real has been utter shit. It's bloated, it's non-intuitive, it has all the worst attributes of MS' software and it's unstable as hell. I won't even mention G2 and how it's probably one of the most unstable programs I've ever used. RP7 RESETS my Win2K machine if I watch more than two movies without closing it! It's INSANE!
As much as I don't like supporting MS, I chose ASF as my streaming format. It's it's only available in RM, I don't even bother...
Jay
-- polish ccs mirror
I'm really not a fan of Real, really. Their whole scandal about collecting consumer information (what the **** do they need it for anyway, all they make is software for streaming sound and video over the internet). The quality is piss poor too. So much of the lesser-known software works so much better, but it isn't perfect either. The fact that you can't save or even cache video is another 'feature' I despise.
Other than that, it's good that linux (Red Hat Linux at least) we be able to be used in delivering the most widely used streaming formats on the internet today.
I like to use RealPlayer G2 under X, but unfortunately it takes as much CPU time as it can get
Have you ever watched top while listening to a real stream? It's demanding, but not quite as much as when you try to pause that stream - it shot up to 85% use on my box until I hit play again....
- passion
Maybe with this deal we'll get Linux versions of the Real products at the same time as the Windows versions. I've never liked Real much because it seems they come out with a new version every few months, and the rare times when I want to listen to/view something in Real formats, I have to download a new player just to hear it. What's worse, the last couple versions, the Linux versions have gotten behind, to the point that by the time the Linux player is out, nobody's producing content playable by that version any more. RealPlayer G2 (a.k.a. RealPlayer 6) only ever came out for Linux in an unsupported alpha release, and it doesn't play all the stuff that ended up in the final RealPlayer G2. I don't know how long RealPlayer 7 has been out, but it's been a while, and there's no Linux version yet. This story says it's coming, but what we need is not just RealPlayer 7 for Linux, but also RealPlayer 8 for Linux when RealPlayer 8 for Windows comes out.
Does anyone have any advice on hooking up xmms to netscape so that it acts as a plugin instead of just as a standalone app?
In other words, can I use spinner.com when I'm running in linux?
Thanks for any advice.
David Andre
I emailed Real a while back, and after bullshitting around by questions they did seem to say that Linux is their main priority in their products but will still be making there products availbable for other Unix flavors. I am not sure when this will happen but they said the would a long time ago!
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Why would we want crappy software to run in Linux? Now if real announced that it was GPLing its RA algo, that would be a Good Thing (tm).
there are 2 kinds of people. those who divide people into 2 kinds, and those who don't.
Open Sourced Real Player?
I'm still working on a clever footer.
I use a modem for my net access. Streaming video is not worth it.
--Have a Johsonville brat.
I was thinking the same thing, only more in terms of how sad it is that Real has to compete on MS's level: give it away to saturate the market. At least this time Linux/Real will have a great start against MS/MS-media server, being close in the server market already.
----------
Stupid sexy Flanders.
First, I realise that this is probably redundant, but article removed without even an explanation? Does anybody know why? :), I suppose this counts as the answer. I wonder if Real is ever going to come through with at least a beta for Be.
Secondly, they've been promising that G2 final for Linux would be available last year for a year now
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
I hope nobody gets too excited about this one.
I seem to remember _everybody_ blowing up, not too long ago, because Real was yanking user info w/o users' knowledge and/or consent. Anyone else remember? I'm sure glad I didn't use Real products.
Does it seem like Real is just trying to win the public over again by siding with "The Underdog" in releasing Linux products in partnership w/ Redhat? I know I still won't be using their products.
That would be like Microsoft releasing Linux products (say, Media Player) and everybody getting excited and forgetting about MS being an absolutely crooked company.
Well, I guess I made my point (kinda. Anybody get what I'm saying?)
Mike
Sure, I have a thankless job. That's okay. I have a lot of (non
Depsite the whining from other posters about privacy issues etc., this is a Good Thing.
One more app that pushes me further toward finally deleting Windoze. All I need is a nice quick and dirty HTML prototyping app a la Dreamweaver and PostScript vector graphics package.
Though I wish I knew how to get Netscape working with OpenLinux 2.3 again.
digging through real networks' site for that stuff is like looking for an honest politician.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
In Israel there is a policy called the Samson option. Basically if they're on the verge of defeat, they launch their nuclear arsenal and turn the middle east into glass. (http://www.access-one.com/prophecy/pb_post.htm)
Real Networks has a similar option at their disposal. They can, if their survival is threatened, release the source code for Real Producer and Real Player G2. The release of an open sourced codec of this quality, would create a giant split - Microsoft and their closed source media tools, against the ever evolving open source version running on linux and windows. People will migrate towards the open standards because of its universal accessibility (see: mpegs, mp3's), and excellent quality.
But it would only come to that if Real Networks was becoming totally irrelevant, and then it is just a maybe...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
It appears that the article has been removed from biz.yahoo.com.
I suspect the real server will be only 1-5 streams with a form to tell you where to send the $30,000 if you actually want to broadcast... but maybe they will surprise me... what ever happened with the quicktime petition anyway?
This is exactly what we have been needing for Linux, a program that will collect our userinfo, and without our knowledge, send over the Internet.
:) :P unless M$ ports the media player.. then ill just wank back the old code from windoze ..
No longer will people declare than Win98 is more user friendly. Linux users will be targeted by marketing analysts just as easy as Windows users.
Truly, this is a great day for all mankind!
I think Hemos got it nailed. i went back and wrote my own danged mp3 jukebox with the windows media player when i got wind of the realnetworks 'borrowing' of information about folks off their pcs.
of course, with *nix you can always shutdown the narsty lil ports that they send that over..
Time to start all over again, i suppose.
Who has a solution for serving streaming content with Linux besides purchasing the $3,000 real server? IMO, I think MS's Media Server is pretty good, but am embarassed to tell people I use NT because it has better streaming video server support (I then lose all arguments concerning Linux vs NT at that point)We have 25 Linux servers, and have looked into OpenQuicktime (is that it?) but we than have to purchase the $1,000 + software to enable a .mov file to stream. And..if there is another form of streaming plugin, what are then chances that viewers will download yet again another plugin? Thanks
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
Precisely. Real overinflates their "ratings" to make themselves look good. Even though MS isn't any better about that, at least they are usually honest about their info collection policies. What REALLY pushed me over the edge to HATing Real, though, was this constant STREAM (no pun intended) of email from "Maria Cantwell" at Real about their stupid products. After the privacy story came out, that pretty much closed it on them. Real sucks.
This is too bad. Real is an evil place. This is a sad day.
I don't care if it's better than windows, I don't care if it's not open source. We will finally have a player that's NOT alpha crap quality.
The disheartening part is all of the people who will now complain about how real player sucks, or that it isn't open source. I've never seen anything done for the linux community which wasn't immediately shot down or complained about. It's probably happened, but I just haven't seen it.
Linux is still in the position where it is desparate for applications. We still need all the help we can get. If it takes redhat to help convince these companies of the worthyness of linux, that can only benefit everyone. More stuff like this, and we are on the road to a point where we are no longer applicationally challenged when compared to windoze users.
I know many do not want to see that day, but I am very eager for it, since it's one of linux's biggest shortcomings at this point.
linuxes, linux's, linuxs, linux'es... whatever.
thank you redhat. (I for one am glad you didn't waste 900 million buying a website that you had to promise not to influence or change anyway when you could use it for projects like this.)
Nice to see this. I hope they port the GUI to GTK instead of MOTIF. When mozilla is stable I hope to see no more motif apps on my screen ever.
I really hope RedHat pushes GTK on this one. The reason they haven't used GTK before is probably because the REAL NETWORKS in-house programmers only have Motif experience or something, otherwise they are just plain masochists.
If we can't get GTK, then at least I hope we can get QT, but please not MOTIF. Also it would be nice if they could get rid of the unecesary bloat in the app. I mean c'mon I don't need IRC/web-browser/Emacs and stuff in my *.ra player.
I don't think Real is really interested in bringing their product line to the Linux desktop at all, instead I think they are counting on the emerging of cheap hand held devices (Web pads etc.), many of which will be running some sort of Linux. This could be a very big market in the future, and they don't want to be left out.
In any case, more software is always a good thing.
*SIGH*..
Still NO real encoding tools...And Real Player G2 / Server has been out for over 3 months now. And even so, It took real A YEAR AND A HALF to release a G2 player for linux, while if you wanted to view any recent Real Video content you had to "LILO: Windows"...
On top of this, the Real player v5 for linux was a complete joke -- it's performace compared to the windows/mac versions just plain sucked. And I won't even go into the privacy issues, as it's already been covered in other threads.
Plain and simple, real networks is EVIL EVIL EVIL! We need an alternative. Anyone?
"..Just because you put a flag on the moon doesn't make it yours, it just puts a hole in the moon..."
And how many of those 90,000,000 users are people who formatted and reinstalled windows and entered a new fake name and email into the registration dialog?
RealNetworks is one of the few companies that is more intrusive than MS at pushing their content/junk, but I'll have to agree, any streaming video player is better than none.
Since when is more choice in apps. a bad thing. If you don't like Real don't install their player. If it is installed by default remove it, it isn't that hard. Yes we would all like an open source player better, but even if there was a good one available it still wouldn't play all the millions of rm stuff out there. Yes their player is sucky and Real doesn't respect privacy, but if you don't like it don't use it. Its a simple as that.
And to those worried about Rhat specific shit, don't. It is still Linux running on the same libs and crap, stuff "for RedHat Linux X.X" will always run as long as you are using the same libs.
They misunderestimated me. -- George W. Bush
Yes, Realplayer is evil. We all know they spy on their users. Realplayer 7 will probably be closed source. (It would be nice if Redhat could convince them otherwise.) But I'll use it. And I look forward to using it. Because that ancient version of Realplayer never did work right for me under Redhat linux, and I've been feeling left out when ever I come across some music site that uses realplayer. So at least I won't be left out anymore, and I'll still hope for a non-evil open source solution for streaming media.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
Real may not be the best company in the world, but it's the move that counts. Any release that allows folk to move away from FreelyBSoD has to be a good thing. Next, Xing team up with Corel to give Linux users a DVD player (hrrmmm. trying to decide if you can have too much of a 'good' thing).
Before I begin, check out ArchiBunkers comment. Lots of good schtuff there. Ya know Linux is a great OS. Web wise, it lacks as a browser. Now some may claim that the times are faster vs NT machines, but the quality isn't always the same. The consistancy of Netscape and Modzilla is low. Lets bring the audio-video up to speed and maybe (Bill Gates forbid) we surpass M$.
If you don't like this . . . MOD someone else up.
I don't think that anyone can correctly argue that Real's focussing on Windows was a bad move to make from a buisness perspective. Linux is more important on the server side, though.
The thing about linux as a server, however, is that on windows the same box can easily (by easily, I include "Easy to set up") be both the encoder and the server for a live stream. Video 4 Linux is kind of a bear to set up (I never did get it to work with my BW quickcam last I tried. Maybe that makes me an idiot, but it shouldn't be that difficult.) Part of the V4L difficulties are that the kernel doesn't have a feature dependency checker working properly though, so if I say include something that requires a previous feature, and it doesn't tell you in the readme, then I don't know to turn on the other feature and the compile chokes. Flonk, flonk.
In any case, V4L2 is needed before you can do that sort of thing easily and cleanly on linux. Until then, having the server on linux only solves half the problem, which is the final stage before the user gets it, but it doesn't solve sending it to multiple internal servers as nicely as putting it on the same P3-650 (or athlon, or what have you) as your video capture hardware. All in one solutions put less load on the network.
So let's face it, linux isn't as important to support as windows. I think we should focus on being grateful that they're finally doing a port of a reasonable version (Assuming they follow through, anyway) and not spend so much time whinging.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There are a ton of different ways to listen to music on Linux. And as an added bonus, few, if any, track your listening habits for marketting info.
I'll stick with those.
I agree, though it's kinda scarey to see a specific distro tie-in like this. So what if everyone runs to Red Hat first, and doesn't offer their products to the other distros? If everyone runs to Red Hat, then Red Hat has to pick and choose or risk cutting their margins because they have to pay for all these goodies. If the third-party software folks are not charging for their addins (a la Netscape), there's no reason why they wouldn't want it included in as many distributions as will carry it. In short, I think that there's a lot of room in the Linux marketplace for third party add ins. I mean, how many Red Hat users really want some kind of demo Real server with an absurdly low number of connections allowed. Anomalous Canard==Anormal Duck? Curses! Foiled again!
/)Canard: Fr. duck
o>Anomalous: syn. irregular
o>Anomalous: syn. irregular
"
Hopefully the RealPlayer for Linux won't hijack all my netscape/system settings like the mac version did. (NO I don't want to use RealPlayer to play WAVs. NO I don't want to use it to play MP3s...)
frustrating.
maybe it has something to do with Alpha not being produced anymore, PPC being mostly MacOS users, and sparc linux is only good on machines that you wouldn't want to run solaris on. ie: old ass sparcstations that you wouldn't want to run media apps on anyway. (before you flame me on this, I just want to point out that I own an old ass sparcstation, and I wouldn't want anyone wasting their time trying to support it. If I want RP on my sparc, I'll get a new one and then see if I can get a Solaris player) maybe it also has something to do with going for the largest portion of the linux market and deciding if it's even a good idea. If you want linux to start being recognized, dont bitch when people start doing it. maybe write a letter thanking someone for the level of support they're showing and suggest that they also consider the other platforms as well.
The GNOME and KDE projects at least distribute all their work under the GPL, which stipulates that you cannot distribute the software unless all its components are under the GPL. This condition would plainly be impossible to satisfy for a player that requires a closed Real library.
While the KDE folks have been known to play fast and loose with this requirement of the GPL (see for example any past flame war on QT), GNOME is official GNU software and hell would freeze over before the FSF releases anything using a proprietary Real library.
Changing the subject to get back on topic, I feel that the free software/open source community should avoid touching closed standards with a 10 ft pole. Closed software is one thing, and we can work around that given enough time, but closed standards are fatal to the free software cause. File formats and protocols used by companies like Real, Microsoft, etc. have a nasty habit of changing incompatibly whenever it suits the interests of the owning company. I personally am very disappointed that a company like Redhat that has been so supportive of free software in the past is now going to be held hostage to the whims of Real and their proprietary streaming protocol.
The fact that proprietary file format standards such as Realaudio and MS Office have a monopoly chokehold on their respective market is just one more problem that our community is going to have to overcome. I don't claim to have the answers, but I at least realize that it's a problem.
As Cringley reported, Microsoft's entry into the streaming media market is causing waves. There's no doubt in my mind that if M$ wasn't trying to 0wn this market, that Real Networks would continue to ignore Linux.
I sometimes wonder if Linux will ever be seen by business as something other than a loss leader. Why do only floundering companies come to Linux? Why can't Linux attract mainstream developers on the strength its userbase and programming API?
My humble apologizes for not closing a bold tag :)
--
I can see a conspiracy theory starting right here
Enjoy
--
Does anyone have any advice on hooking up xmms to netscape so that it acts as a plugin instead of just as a standalone app?
Check out XSwallow. According to its web page: X Swallow is a plugin i've cobbled together to allow any X program to be used as an inline viewer for any appropiate mime type. So a mime type like vrml for which there does not exist, as of the moment, a plugin for linux netscape can be viewed inline to netscape with ordinary vrml viewers such as vrweb/liquid reality.
I've used it with xanim for quicktimes, wavplay for wavs and the like. Its really pretty cool.
I have to shut down Win95 and startup Linux to listen to Internet streaming RealAudio !!
Something in my Win95 config is scrogged Again, causing the whole machine to lockup after maybe 30 seconds and I don't care to putz around with it anymore.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
And not just Linux non-x86 platforms are left out: so are other Unices, not to mention other OSes like BeOS and OS/2.
The Linux community is often guilty of the same assumptions that they so deplore in Windows users: that everyone uses the same as they do. Just as "computer" means a Windows-based PC to most people, "Linux" means Linux-x86 to most users. And they can be somewhat blind to those other operating systems with smaller user bases.
I don't think the RedHat-Real partnership is necessarily a bad thing. It's an OK thing. But it may take our eyes away from some more important goals: real freedom of choice and transparent interoperability. For this, we need real open standards (an open Real standard would be nice). Streaming media at the moment is essentially a contest between two closed, proprietary formats, and not only will neither company do the work to port their clients (not to mention servers) to OSes with a smaller user base (Redhat Linux x86 apparently has made the threshold now), but because the formats themselves are closed, no one else could do it if they wanted to.
Open standards are essential. Open source implementations can come next.
"I believe that the cult of the particular brings only death - for it bases order on likeness." St.-Exupery
As long as you are running on x86 (and I assume that is what they specifically mean by releasing a "Linux" version), couldn't you run all of the Real stuff under the FreeBSD Linux-emulation?
This sig is false.
that they offer a version that has nothing but free software. Because if they dropped all non-free stuff, nutscrape would have been yanked too.
Could be wrong, tho.
This sig is false.
I agree with you on the fact that if M$ ported to BSD, Real would very quickly follow. I don't even think it would take them a month. I can't imagine that moving Real* from Linux to BSD would take that long.
I also understand wanting to have it native. Now, I haven't tried it myself, but from what I hear from FreBSD'ers, almost nothing that runs under Linux can't be convinced to work under the emulation (short of something that needs a kernel module, and even than may be fixed now).
*shrug*
This sig is false.
Maybe because x86 has a bigger foothold on the desktop marked than the other platforms.
If you need quality, you go for Alpha and Sparc on the server. But on the server, you don't really need RealAudio etc.
Just a thought, not an excuse.
Je ne parle pas francais.
In fact, a number of components of such a system already exist and have been released in open source form (some of them by companies I have worked for), including H.xxx CODECs, MPEG CODECs, streaming media servers, etc. We also have good cross-platform toolkits for writing generic clients.
I disagree that having a proprietary solution on a free OS is preferable to having a proprietary solution requiring a proprietary OS in this case. If we go down that route, we may well end up with all proprietary software, formats, and protocols and only an open source kernel; what's the point of that? Supporting proprietary clients using proprietary protocols on a mainstream Linux distribution will simply help make those protocols more entrenched.
I think decisions like these are also important for RedHat's image. My organization is considering standardizing on some Linux distribution. We like Linux because it is based on open standards. RedHat has been very supportive of open source software and open standards so far, and has been sponsoring a number of open source development efforts. We want to do business with a company that continues to show that kind of commitment to open source.
Even if RedHat ships Real Networks software in the short run, I very much hope that RedHat will take the initiative and support a truly open source streaming media system. Streaming media are too important to leave them to a single company.
As someone else already pointed out, Real never opened up their file format. This means that they control the server and _also_ the content creation tools.
The tools is what ultimately matters, because otherwise we are at the mercy of Real and their corporate partners when it comes to video creation tools for Linux. And we want those, oh yes!
I think it's much better for Linux if we (the people) put our support behind QuickTime format. Yes, the best codecs are proprietary, but the file format is open, so someone can create an good open-source codec.
And Apple already gave us the Darwin Streaming Server, which is the open source release of their exellent QuickTime Streaming Server.
I have started work on enhancing and maintaining the source. Take a look at:
http://www.pobox.com/~kostya/videod
I have mixed feelings on this. Yeah, it will be nice to see something new from Real, but the whole privacy violation thing still sticks with me.
On the other hand, Real seems to be stuck with an old, slow, not very good codec. Yeah, in the beginning it worked great considering you were looking at it over a 28.8k modem, but today all I see it doing is dropping frames and doing a hell of a lot of buffering - even on xDSL.
I have farted around a bit with Windows Media Player and was most impressed with it - even on a 56k modem you got a lot of decent video. xDSL really helps it out. Of course, that is a Windows program and I like Linux better, so I use Real.
I am open to the whole thing, but am going to really reseve my judgement on the whole thing until we actually see the player and the servers in action. It would be cool as all heck though.
I wish there was a plugin for RealMedia files in XMMS, but if it exists, I haven't been able to find it.
I like XMMS just as much as the next guy, but in my opinion, the RealPlayer software is one of those "must have" apps for my Linux box. It may not be the best product in the world, and I know a lot of privacy zealots hate it, but let's face it, RealPlayer is still on top in the streaming media business. According to a recent blurb in Wired, RealPlayer has an estimated 90,000,000 users with over 33,000 downloads per week, well ahead of it's nearest competitor, Windows Media Player, with 40,000,000 users and just over 15,000 downloads per week.
This is another example of an application that may have been a stumbling block in moving from Windows to Linux for some people. Now don't get me wrong, I know that you can already get RealPlayer for Linux, but in my experience, it hasn't worked out too well. I am sure that it works great as-is for some people. My point is that RedHat could make a lot more inroads into the Windows empire by not only having a stable, efficient RealPlayer for Linux, but also by bundling it into the distribution so that the average user doesn't have to fight to get it working.
As far as I am concerned, this is nothing but more good news. Sure, there is going to be a negative side to it, but I think that overall this is the sort of news that the Linux community in general should be pretty happy to hear, and something that Real Networks should be advertising pretty blatantly.
Darrell Swoap
darrell
I'm an Open Source advocate, and yet I want this to happen. I want to see Real Player ship with Red Hat. Why? Because I want streaming video. The free efforts I've seen just don't cut the mustard.
However, perhaps Real can be persuaded to release source. After all, they rely on patents to defend their market, so giving out the source won't hurt them. It won't be Open Source, but at least it'll be source. The ability to fix bugs and partake in the development of new features cannot be underestimated.
it's right here: http://www.realnetworks.com/products/r edhat/
(darren)
Well, with linux, it would be possible to put the realserver in some kind of process confinement, where it would be unable to read anything else on the hard drive, nor able to contact any server except the one it is streaming from. You can't do that on Windows. You can't do it yet on linux either, but at least it's possible.
;)
Of course, they could have their process not run at all if it is confined. But then I would not run it at all.
will Real allow the server to be used without their licensing fees?
Royalty-free serving of content was touted as one of the big advantages of the Darwin Streaming Server, which is already available for Linux (better known as the QuickTime Streaming Server under Mac OS X).
<disclaimer> yes, there's no QuickTime Player for Linux. Yes, you can play older QuickTime movies (one snot encoded via Sorensen) on Linux. Yes, Apple should consider a client that includes the codecs. No, I don't work for them. </disclaimer>
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
If I were them, I would have it plastered in big letters. This is a great thing for the Linux community and for Real. I for one am tired of that old buggy G2 alpha.
Of course, they might have not had time to post it on their site yet.
Let the viewing of South Park movies in Linux recommence!
Plankeye
Who the hell told Carrot Top he was funny?
Rest assured Microsoft has no control whatsoever over Red Hat.
Yes, we are watching Microsoft (and *BSD and BeOS and other Linux distributions and and and), but that doesn't mean we're copying them. All Redhat is doing is waiting for Microsoft to make every move and then they mirror the same move
Please tell me, for example, when Microsoft started shipping source, when invented a packaging system that allows for real uninstallation, when Microsoft started to include a clustering system in Windows, or when Red Hat started providing the bluescreen module or putting lots of stuff that belong to userspace into the kernel.
Red hat doesn't want to create anything new.
It is true that right now, we aren't starting many new projects all by ourselves - but we're contributing to projects that do something new. Check the CVS commit logs of most interesting open source projects and you'll see commits from Red Hat employees (creating something new). Why would we want to, for example, create our own new desktop environment? Don't you agree that contributing to the ones we have (such as KDE and GNOME, both of which we're working on) is obviously a better solution?
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Maybe if their Linux distro didn't suck so hard I woudln't mind
So, why do you think we suck?
Saying something sucks without giving reasons is easy, but doesn't help making anything better. (just like pointing out something doesn't suck - would it get us anywhere if I just replied with "Red Hat Linux doesn't suck"?)
If you have any constructive criticism, please let me know. If you think this is getting offtopic (it probably is), feel free to send it to me personally at bero@redhat.com.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
It was about time RealNetworks realised that Linux is is need if their products 8-) What would really be interesting would be to see an RH distro with the M$ media player...
--
Real Player will be a nice binary only addition to the world of unix software, but feh.
Microsoft Windows Media Player and it's delightful array of codecs is much nicer to use than the bauble-intensive, ad-encrusted real player.
WMP also does fullscreen much more smoothly than RP and just generally sucks less. I would be delighted to have it available cross platform, even if it was binary only. (which it would be...)
Real tried to play hardball with MS and see where it got them...
-troll taker
I have had my share of bad luck with just about every single Real product I've gotten my hands on. For starters, their Real Player is the biggest little program I think I've seen in the recent past. It has to much junk bundled with it, it ridiculous. I have had problem with the Real Producer to. I was going to setup up streaming television over the LAN in my house. But Real Producer kept rebooting my system. The Real Server wasn't much better, but that actuall worked with some decency. I've tried to migrate away from most products by them.
All Redhat is doing is waiting for Microsoft to make every move and then they mirror the same move.
Who cares?
Red Hat is one Linux company. There are other distributions out there with other goals. Let them chase the market that they see. It is a business after all.
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Canard: a false or unfounded repor
It's not the bloated mess the Windows version has become... There is *way* too much junk in the RealPlayer app that is useless: Content Panel? AOL Instant Messenger? snap.com search bar? Please.
Just because Microsoft announced yesterday that Windows Media Server would be built into Windows 2000, does that mean we should match their every move with exactly the same thing or should we try to offer something better? All Redhat is doing is waiting for Microsoft to make every move and then they mirror the same move. That's why Rasterman left. RedHat doesn't want to create anything new. They just want to clone Microsoft by repackaging existing products that don't work.
Now, these have been asked by others (some of them at least, but I'd like to ask about them all together.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
(Yet Another Crappy Proprietary Video Standard)
I would really rather see most of these proprietary video standards go down the drain. I think most, if not all, of the functionality is present in one of the MPEG versions. AFAIK all video encoders do the same thing: DCT with quantization, and motion compensation on top of that. Big whoopee.
I'd like to see some nice MPEG streaming software as an alternative to things like this. The tech is all there, someone just has to slap it together. I'd do it, but I'm too lazy/stupid :)
What would be really swanky, and a great marketing move for Real, would be if they released a shared library for Linux and other free platforms. They don't need to release the source, just a library that can be linked against. Then we would no doubt have command line, X, GNOME, KDE, and probably some other versions of software that could play Real streams. Maybe we would also be able to make it use ALSA output, and integrate it with the X-Video extension to XFree86. The possibilities are endless with even this simple, non-open-source solution. I hope Real and RedHat are considering it.
As for the server, there is no way in hell I would run a binary-only server on my machine, especially if it wants to run as root or some such tripe.
-jwb
Think about it. Real shouts out, "YAY! we are gonna support our Real products under Linux." (the crowd rejoices) But most of us know Real's track record. Real STILL owns Xing, regardless of their stance on liunx. Real is also in the DVD software-decoding realm. The growth of RealMedia utils under linux is very welcome, but just like any good company, i'm sure that Real has a game plan. What of their involvement in the DVD/DeCSS debacle. It just seems too weird to me. I'd hate to see this deal come back to bite Linux (as a whole) on the ass. I haven't heard one peep come out of Xing about their poor implementation of the CSS encryption. RealPlayer or DVD software....doesn't matter. It still comes out of the same camp. Comments? Am i the only skeptic?
you never lose in ure razorblade shoes......Beck-Hotwax
Well, what about XMMS? I'm certainly not the expert here, but if it's got all the plugins that winamp does (and/or more), then I'll bet there's a plugin for XMMS that alows you to watch .rm files. Which would make Realplayer unnecessary for Linux unless it's just a better product. However, I'm not saying to not use Realplayer for Linux because we all want choice, right? That's all part of the open source ideal, no? So, I guess what I'm asking here is: How does Realplayer compare to XMMS/what we've already got? (realizing, of course, that XMMS isn't the only thing we've got for multimedia under Linux/Unix/etc....)
Insert mind here.
I'm happy to see that Red Hat is out there getting support for better linux ports. They're starting to sound a little like a lobbiest group. Of course, with M$ having very competitive products of the Real* products, this makes good business sense, too. We've seen some of this before with OS/2. I wonder if this time M$ will get competitive products out on the linux? They'll need to if they want to stay competitive.
-- Moondog
I think customers of Red Hat should let them know that they prefer that Red Hat support an open source streaming audio/media project, rather than bundling Real Networks software.
<p>
We're always in favor of something open sourced.
Please point me to an open-sourced solution for the same problem that:
<ul>
<li>is as widely in use/accepted by content providers</li>
<li>Has at least a client available for many platforms (as much as I dislike it, at this time, not many webmasters will switch to a streaming server that doesn't have a client on the evil empire's side)</li>
<li>Works reliably</li>
</ul>
(or at least will get there soon) and I'll make sure it gets included as well.
<p>Until we have something like it, I'd say having a proprietary solution on a free OS is preferable over having a proprietary solution requiring a proprietary OS, and no solution whatsoever on free OSes...
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
*sigh* Yet another reinforcement that "Linux" == "x86 only". PPC, Alpha, Sparc, and all the other platforms are really wasted efforts; you should just suck it up and buy crappy Intel hardware. [end sarcasm]
--
The Future: Some assembly required; batteries not included.
Your response is fair and pragmatic. But the original poster didn't bring up (and you don't address) the most disconcerting aspect of Real's recent business practice: their appropriation of personal information without individual permission.
Is Red Hat going to take steps to prevent this? How can we be assured that similar shenanigans won't occur in the future, assuming the product is going to remain closed-source?
I will be sorely disappointed in RH if these concerns simply go unanswered, and I certainly don't feel safe putting Real's binary on my system until the point has at least been addressed.
phil
BTW, I think it's great that Real is planning to put more effort behind Linux support. I'd love to see Apple step up with QuickTime support for Linux as well.
--
Dave Aiello
-- Dave Aiello
Using RealPlayer will only help their proprietary format get entrenched further. That means that we may have to live for a long time with their disregard for privacy and their haphazard clients. (I removed RealPlayer from my Linux machines a while ago.)
I think it would be better to look towards open alternatives and to contact web sites to use such alternatives. Streaming MP3 is a good choice for some applications. And there has been some work on other streaming media for Linux (e.g., here).
Furthermore, I think customers of RedHat should let them know that they prefer that RedHat support an open source streaming audio/media project, rather than bundling Real Networks software.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/00 0222/realnetwor_4.html
Because MS have just been tub-thumping about how Win2000 includes streaming servers built in with no further licenses. MS could make Linux a second-class web browsing platform if they could capture the streaming server market with a proprietary format for which no Linux player exists. This move is a step towards preventing that.
Hopefully RedHat will get the source code and ensure that the new RealPlayer is actually stable and useable under Linux.
This is exactly what we have been needing for Linux, a program that will collect our userinfo, and without our knowledge, send over the Internet.
No longer will people declare than Win98 is more user friendly. Linux users will be targeted by marketing analysts just as easy as Windows users.
Truly, this is a great day for all mankind!
-hemos.
I'm hemos., aka Jeff. Bates.. I help run this site, along with Rob. Malda.. I handle books, and generally posting storie
(I realize that the following sounds very opinionated. That's because it's an opinion. duh.)
Real's support for Linux products has always sucked. I remember reading a couple years ago about how Glaser originally liked to talk trash about Microsoft, but in the end Gates slapped him around a little and got him to work a little more 'in sync' with Microsoft. Afterwards M$ went ahead and bundled Windows Media Player with Windows. I would have thought at that point Real would start focusing more on it's non-Windows products.
When Realaudio first came out I thought it was just about the coolest thing in the world. Since then I've watched it become less and less relevant as other competition shows up. In the meantime I've just developed a distaste for Real's products, their annoying reminder messages, lack of regard for privacy, etc. Glaser just seems like an opportunist, and not a very good one at that. If there's one thing that impresses my about Real, it's that they're still around at all. I guess this has more to do with being the first to market than anything.
I think all this press release means is that Real found another free way to get their software distributed. I'll believe that they are truly making an effort to support their *nix users when I see it.
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