Slashdot Mirror

Slow back/forward performance is bug 33269. Feel free to vote for this bug if it's important to you (of course, you'll need a free Bugzilla account to vote).

In due fairness to Mozilla, though, it has become much better with each milestone. Try one of the nightlies -- you may be pleasantly surprised.

Slow back/forward performance is bug 33269. Feel free to vote for this bug if it's important to you (of course, you'll need a free Bugzilla account to vote).

In due fairness to Mozilla, though, it has become much better with each milestone. Try one of the nightlies -- you may be pleasantly surprised.

Slow back/forward performance is bug 33269. Feel free to vote for this bug if it's important to you (of course, you'll need a free Bugzilla account to vote).

In due fairness to Mozilla, though, it has become much better with each milestone. Try one of the nightlies -- you may be pleasantly surprised.

Slow back/forward performance is bug 33269. Feel free to vote for this bug if it's important to you (of course, you'll need a free Bugzilla account to vote).

In due fairness to Mozilla, though, it has become much better with each milestone. Try one of the nightlies -- you may be pleasantly surprised.

Some people on #mozillazine tell me that it may not work with Mozilla 0.9.5

It assuredly doesn't work in 0.9.5. That "trick" hasn't even worked since 0.9.2. I'm not saying this to disparage you, but just to clarify things. Not to worry, though, work is being done on a spellchecker for Mozilla.

Some people on #mozillazine tell me that it may not work with Mozilla 0.9.5

It assuredly doesn't work in 0.9.5. That "trick" hasn't even worked since 0.9.2. I'm not saying this to disparage you, but just to clarify things. Not to worry, though, work is being done on a spellchecker for Mozilla.

Milestones and nightlies also have far more bugs.

Well, not really.. After all, bugs are being fixed all the time, resulting in a constant net reduction in the bug-count.

Perhaps what you're referring to are the occasional annoying bugs that creep into the nightly builds from time to time (such as session history being broken, which is now fixed, btw). But, don't let that scare you away from the nightlies. Simply check out the Build Comments at Mozillazine. Every day, the nightlies are rated with a simple "thumbs-up" or "thumbs-down". So, if you're concerned about running into weirdness, just avoid the "thumbs-down" builds :).

Milestones and nightlies also have far more bugs.

Well, not really.. After all, bugs are being fixed all the time, resulting in a constant net reduction in the bug-count.

Perhaps what you're referring to are the occasional annoying bugs that creep into the nightly builds from time to time (such as session history being broken, which is now fixed, btw). But, don't let that scare you away from the nightlies. Simply check out the Build Comments at Mozillazine. Every day, the nightlies are rated with a simple "thumbs-up" or "thumbs-down". So, if you're concerned about running into weirdness, just avoid the "thumbs-down" builds :).

You can install the Netscape spellchecker, but only into really old builds. It doesn't work in current builds. But, work is being done on creating a spellchecker specifically for Mozilla.

You can install the Netscape spellchecker, but only into really old builds. It doesn't work in current builds. But, work is being done on creating a spellchecker specifically for Mozilla.

For the large number of RedHat 7 users, here are the nightly RPMS (not always updated nightly):

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest- trunk/Red_Hat_7x_RPMS/

For everyone else (MacOS, OSX, non-RPM Linux, Win32, source, etc):

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest- trunk/

For the large number of RedHat 7 users, here are the nightly RPMS (not always updated nightly):

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest- trunk/Red_Hat_7x_RPMS/

For everyone else (MacOS, OSX, non-RPM Linux, Win32, source, etc):

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest- trunk/

Was this release assembed from the mozilla 0.9.4 source before or after the patch to fix linux plugins was installed?

I'm afraid I look at plenty of ads already, and I'm not going to pay $40 for a browser when I already have a very fast and much more standards compliant browser for free.

That's why they have Mozilla.

Mozilla deliberately broke (MHO) history in 0.9.5. See bug 101832. Might be what you're seeing.

Actually, I would say that your management was right on. As mozilla.org says: We make binary versions of of Mozilla available for testing purposes only!. We provide no end user support.

This is something that's missed by the "Mozilla advocates" that hang on Slashdot and Mozillazine and other places. Mozilla is not an end-user browser. It's for voluntary developers and voluntary QA people only. No non-nerds even know what Mozilla is, so if you try to encourage people to use it, the funny looks they are giving you are well grounded.

So, if you are worried about a MS-dominated WWW, encourage people to try Netscape 6.2. Don't even mention Mozilla -- it detracts from the message. Unfortunately, lots of (normal) people took a look at the horrific 6.0PR releases and the terrible 6.0 final and need some encouragement to take another look at the releases that actually work.

With Netscape continuing to slip in mindshare, using 0.9.4 probably was the best move for them right now. They need some good press. I know all about the perf hit that <link> causes; I've been a frequent contributor to bug 2800 and successors. Best wishes to you guys actually doing the coding, and many thanks.

As for the link toolbar, there are good reasons why it's disabled by default: namely a 5% speed penalty on every page load, regardless of whether it's in use or not. If you like and use links, this is a price worth paying, but Mozilla has a "zero tolerance" policy for this kind of performance hit. This is bug 103097 and I'll be working on it as soon as someone with C++ knowledge can make the necessary underlying changes in the C++ code. There are also some negative interactions with the tabbed browsing feature which will need to be resolved before it can be turned on by default.

In the meantime, be glad that Netscape chose the earlier release rather than shipping something buggy, like the current state of the link (sorry "site navigation") toolbar and tabbed browsing.

Stuart.

PS Thanks to /. for adding link tags! It's great to visit sites and actually see the toolbar in use :)

While waiting for Netscape to make one, you can try this build of Mozilla 0.9.5

Dillo is a neat little effort, a cool side project, but no replacement for a real browser like Galeon or Konqueror. It is beyond a shadow of a doubt, the lowest point of the GNU-Darwin package.

-CT

Don't forget to enter our big URL giveaway. Includes a year's free hosting.

fud is dead/on LIEf support?

Making progress is a low priority. Who uses Netscape's webserver, anyway?

Did you ever read the Release Notes? It's all in there. Where else would you like us to put it?

Gerv

Bugzilla is extremely successful. Galeon, K-Meleon, Skipstone, Activestate Komodo, the OS/2 Web Browser, Beonex... all these are successful Mozilla derivatives or spin-offs.

All the ports build and work fine - check our Tinderbox if you want.

Gerv

Rather than just ranting and raving about your pet peeve, you should rant, rave AND enter it into Bugzilla [mozilla.org] (after ascertaining that it isn't already in there).

That's exactly (i think) why mozilla.org is hosting such event. If you read the weekly mozilla status, you'll often read that what mozilla.org's dev tend to do most is triaging their bugs in bugzilla, once bug are targeted and assigned they can start working on finding an norrowing the bugs and coding the fixes. For most of these steps you'll find information on mozilla.org's web site. You'll evne be able to run bugathon, help qa etc ....
Some people just help eliminate bug duplicates but that's not enough, they still need the work force to creat patches and fixes. I've downloaded the source code once or twice, I've tried hard with the limited time I can devote to such project (I have a work, and ssocial life), I was disapointed, becaause I could not get fast enough in the internals of the code.

Such events can help people like myself without much time to dig into it and bust bugs out of the product. OTOH Universtity started and now most CS clases are starting many students will have some time to work on the project in the forthcomin year, with a little help in the bigenning this will (I'm pretty sure) widen the number of mozilla developers that are not from the AOL/Netscape Alliance. Also many school project can with such be launched, that will focuse maybe on a module of mozilla, but such project are really good for the quality of the code, I hope some cs teachers will see the oportunity to base some of the projects they'll lead focused around the mozilla project.

Rather than just ranting and raving about your pet peeve, you should rant, rave AND enter it into Bugzilla [mozilla.org] (after ascertaining that it isn't already in there).

That's exactly (i think) why mozilla.org is hosting such event. If you read the weekly mozilla status, you'll often read that what mozilla.org's dev tend to do most is triaging their bugs in bugzilla, once bug are targeted and assigned they can start working on finding an norrowing the bugs and coding the fixes. For most of these steps you'll find information on mozilla.org's web site. You'll evne be able to run bugathon, help qa etc ....
Some people just help eliminate bug duplicates but that's not enough, they still need the work force to creat patches and fixes. I've downloaded the source code once or twice, I've tried hard with the limited time I can devote to such project (I have a work, and ssocial life), I was disapointed, becaause I could not get fast enough in the internals of the code.

Such events can help people like myself without much time to dig into it and bust bugs out of the product. OTOH Universtity started and now most CS clases are starting many students will have some time to work on the project in the forthcomin year, with a little help in the bigenning this will (I'm pretty sure) widen the number of mozilla developers that are not from the AOL/Netscape Alliance. Also many school project can with such be launched, that will focuse maybe on a module of mozilla, but such project are really good for the quality of the code, I hope some cs teachers will see the oportunity to base some of the projects they'll lead focused around the mozilla project.

Rather than just ranting and raving about your pet peeve, you should rant, rave AND enter it into Bugzilla [mozilla.org] (after ascertaining that it isn't already in there).

That's exactly (i think) why mozilla.org is hosting such event. If you read the weekly mozilla status, you'll often read that what mozilla.org's dev tend to do most is triaging their bugs in bugzilla, once bug are targeted and assigned they can start working on finding an norrowing the bugs and coding the fixes. For most of these steps you'll find information on mozilla.org's web site. You'll evne be able to run bugathon, help qa etc ....
Some people just help eliminate bug duplicates but that's not enough, they still need the work force to creat patches and fixes. I've downloaded the source code once or twice, I've tried hard with the limited time I can devote to such project (I have a work, and ssocial life), I was disapointed, becaause I could not get fast enough in the internals of the code.

Such events can help people like myself without much time to dig into it and bust bugs out of the product. OTOH Universtity started and now most CS clases are starting many students will have some time to work on the project in the forthcomin year, with a little help in the bigenning this will (I'm pretty sure) widen the number of mozilla developers that are not from the AOL/Netscape Alliance. Also many school project can with such be launched, that will focuse maybe on a module of mozilla, but such project are really good for the quality of the code, I hope some cs teachers will see the oportunity to base some of the projects they'll lead focused around the mozilla project.

To be a lot more effective such announce should be spread a little bit more.

Mozilla will be the browser for many alternative OSes (read OS/2, BeOS, Linux, Qnx, Aix ....). Some of these OS already back up the mozilla project , and donate engeeniring forces to the project thats good but for other OSes, distro etc it's not the case So i sugest this announce to be publihed on sites like :

advogato

Beunited

QnxStart

I don't know any windows related sites, but adnantech should do it.

This announce should also be mailed on developing mailing lists like apple's darwin developement list
.

Anyway a lot of great doc are available here and are good sartup point. Sometimes ago some video detailling how to dig in the code where available on mozilla's web site (but I can't find them right now).

Mozilla is an embarrasment to open source...

The only time an Open Source project fails is when people can no longer find the source.

Mozilla itself could be abandoned tomorrow and it'd still be a success.. one merely needs to look at the Mozilla projects page to see the vast quantity of spin-off projects that Mozilla started. Not only are there the well known ones such as Gecko and Bugzilla but there are many, many others like two JavaScript interpreters (one in C++, one in Java), the Netscape Portable Runtime and XPCOM. There's even a commercial product (Komodo)!

Bugzilla is way too involved for public use. If I'm going to stick a toe in the water, I want my first interaction to be very simple, and rewarding.

You should use the Bugzilla Helper, which still has a few fields (many less than the main bug entry page), but they are mostly necessary for a bug tracking package... You would never get it down to one field. :)

This helper form simplifies the bug submission process and describes every field fully. You may complain that that there are still too many fields on this form, but I would argue that they are all pretty necessary for a good bug report.

Rather than just ranting and raving about your pet peeve, you should rant, rave AND enter it into Bugzilla (after ascertaining that it isn't already in there).

Subnote: Don't directly link to individual bugs in slashdot comments. It causes spam when people add ME TOOs as comments.

(Hey, mod this anonymous bugzilla pointer post up, not the various karma whores to follow.)

Speaking purely from the perspective of one who has had to deal with locked-down computers, I can say it is fairly obnoxious if one's work habits happen to differ from the One True Approved Way(tm) handed down from Those who Know Everything. Maybe I want to change my screen resolution (because my 17" really needs to be at least 1280x960, or maybe 1600x1200 is entirely too small on my 15", or whatever), maybe I want to change my keyboard layout (there are those who use other layouts), or maybe I want to install vim (which claims to work nicely with Visual Studio, although I haven't tried it), or maybe I think that a bunch of ringwraiths on my desktop would be better than Approved Microsoft Blue. Maybe I want to install another browser instaed of the Officially Approved Browser. I don't want to have to run crying to the Approved Policy Makers every time I want to change something, and I can imagine that the Approved Policy Makers don't want me to, either. Restrictive policies may make it harder to install unlicenced or illegal software (and I can't imagine that exchanging instant messages for eight hours constitutes useful work, although occassional use should be ok -- business phones get used for personal communication as well, but everyone has one on his or her desk anyway), but they will likely cause a larger support headache, as well as making it harder for your employees to work effectivally because they can't customize their work enviornment.

Actually there's a bug in bugzilla that is about adding a user interface to change user-agent string for Mozilla. See bug 46029.

We're sorry, but you are using an incompatible web browser, and you will not be able to render Slashdot in all its glory. Please switch to a more compatible browser

You'll have to define your definition of a desktop. People do different things with their workstations. Say I'm a c programmer, is linux a pathetic OS for me to use on my desktop?

the ie 2.0 look alikes competing for the web browser market

right.. maybe you were not aware that mozilla surpassed IE6 at about version 0.9.3 in terms of usability and features.

I would agree with you that linux is still a few applications away from putting a dent into the corporate desktop market. If you take the browser situtation in linux a year ago, there were really no _good_ browers available. Now the OS has at least three. There are currently no office suites (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation software, etc) that can compete with M$ Office. In another year or so, I expect that two free office suites will be very usable. This is what linux-based operating systems really need right now for the corporate desktop market.

And as those are being developed, development of KDE3 continues. Because application development has slowed somewhat, I believe that the future actually looks very good for linux desktops. Especially when you consider the direction that microsoft is going.. the restriction only grow with every new software release, and there will be a breaking point for consumers. When M$ hits this, consumers will look elsewhere.

If you are seeing this page, we have detected that the browser that you are using will not render MSN.com correctly. Additionally, you'll see the most advanced functionality of MSN.com only with the latest version of Microsoft Internet Explorer or MSN Explorer. If you wish to visit MSN.com, please select the appropriate download link below.

• Internet Explorer for Windows
• Internet Explorer for Macintosh
• MSN Explorer for Windows

Evidence that this is malicious blocking of particular browsers:

With a little bit of fiddling, it seems fine if I use the NS6.1 UA string

Evidence that this is malicious blocking of particular browsers:

With a little bit of fiddling, it seems fine if I use the NS6.1 UA string

Normally I wouldn't think this would be a good idea, but here it is anyways.

If you run a website, give a similar message to Internet Explorer browsers only. Say, "I'm sorry. Internet Explorer doesn't support a sigle web standard. (See www.w3c.org for more information on webstandards your browser ignores.) Please upgrade to Mozilla 0.9.5 or newer.

Do this on all your websites. Reccomend that users upgrade to Mozilla, Konqueror, Opera, Netscape, Lynx, Links, wget, anything!!! This would be hella' funny! Let them know that Internet Explorer is only designed to view msn.com, and hence will not work with any other site!! Do it!

Apparently MS is only blocking OS's that have IE available (Win32 / MacOS)...there is hope: A story on mozilla.org shows how to change what your browser reports as its UserAgent (Customizing Mozilla). Change (or create) user.js in your Mozilla Profile directory, and place this in it:

user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-22smp i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010110 Netscape6/6.5");

Mozilla on Win32 now gets in... But this just adds to the evidence against anything MS...

Apparently MS is only blocking OS's that have IE available (Win32 / MacOS)...there is hope: A story on mozilla.org shows how to change what your browser reports as its UserAgent (Customizing Mozilla). Change (or create) user.js in your Mozilla Profile directory, and place this in it:

user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-22smp i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010110 Netscape6/6.5");

Mozilla on Win32 now gets in... But this just adds to the evidence against anything MS...

Is any of this proprietary, or has RH managed to stay comeletely OS?

With the sole exception of Netscape (which will disappear later), it's 100% OS.
And Netscape will disappear with the next release - we're already including Konqueror, Mozilla and Galeon as free (and better) alternatives right now.

Also, what RH specific changes are in this gcc?

It's a stabilized fork of a CVS version. See http://www.bero.org/gcc296.html for a further explanation.

Why isn't gcc-3.01 being distributed? Does it have major issues?

It's included as a preview package, but it's not ready for a standard compiler.
It breaks binary compatibility with the compiler used in prior 7.x releases (which is something we don't do in minor releases), and its C++ part is quite broken ATM (try running a version of KDE that was compiled with gcc 3.0.1 and you'll see what I mean - it crashes at startup).

Umm, anyone heard of Mozilla - it happens to be a rather large Open Source Software project funded almost entirely by AOL.

Joseph Elwell.

7. There are now good, free web browsers: Konqueror and Mozilla.

It was'nt the case two years ago.

I find it somewhat disturbing as in this case, AOL are profiting directly from the product, meanwhile, they contribute nothing back to the open source community (except bug reports, but what AOL users submit those).

Ummm, AOL employs the majority of the Mozilla developers. Whatever you want to say about AOL, one cannot justly say they don't contribute to the OSS community.

If you don't believe me, go to www.mozilla.org and browse until you find lists of module owners and contributors. Or search bugzilla. Note that something like three quarters of the e-mail addresses end in @netscape.com.

KHTML's policy is to render valid HTML with a strict parser and quirky HTML with hacks that allow IE-only HTML. Konqueror's user agent can be set to IE for sites that actually check browser version instead of capabilities.

If sites seriously don't work, report a bug for KDE or Mozilla.

This is the pertinent bug:

bug 60787: Mozilla should display pages before downloading them

Yes, somebody has taken a stab at the date. Accodring to the manifesto, we will see a few more releases (0.9.6-0.9.9) followed by 1.0 or 0.9.10 then 1.0. there will be NO other milestones. The document claims we have about half a year until the 1.0 release. This is the first firm forecast I've seen so far.

here's the big bug holding Mozilla 1.0 back; basically a collection of extremely important bugs. Also of tremendous importance, a dependency of this bug, the Party bug ... yes, we need a party for the release!

there is apparently more than one funny bug(here's the list) on Bugzilla.

Yes, somebody has taken a stab at the date. Accodring to the manifesto, we will see a few more releases (0.9.6-0.9.9) followed by 1.0 or 0.9.10 then 1.0. there will be NO other milestones. The document claims we have about half a year until the 1.0 release. This is the first firm forecast I've seen so far.

here's the big bug holding Mozilla 1.0 back; basically a collection of extremely important bugs. Also of tremendous importance, a dependency of this bug, the Party bug ... yes, we need a party for the release!

there is apparently more than one funny bug(here's the list) on Bugzilla.