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Damn standing, I hate standing.

I have some problems with it as well. I think there should be a process to, well, challenge laws in the court even before standing has been established, but I'm not enough of a lawyer to say how that should work.

But again that's a question of use-cases and how the user balances risk.

Correct. What it means, at least to me, is that smart-guns need to be commercially competitive. Consider something like a hydrogen fuel cell car. When the state of the art, even with the company eating all R&D costs, only charging the marginal cost of production results in a $200k vehicle that has 3 fueling points in the city vs hundreds of gasoline fueling points, said car isn't competitive. Get the marginal cost down to $10k per vehicle(IE sale price of about $15k is profitable if they sell enough of them) and the gas station owners will see an opportunity and those 3 points will expand to dozens(at first), so the problems will be solved. Until then, as you say, there's a lot of risk.

So you're basing all of your arguments on the NJ law and the boycott by current gun owners.

No, I'm basing one of my arguments on it. S&W, for example, nearly died to a grass roots boycott when they made a deal with the Clinton Administration to restrict firearm types, features, and sales. So many gun owners refused to buy S&W firearms and/or sold their S&W firearms in protest that not only were there fewer people buying their weapons - there were so many used S&W firearms available that even those still willing to buy were lured into buying used more often than not. The owners ended up selling the company to another party at a 'fire-sale' price, and the new owners repudiated the deal.

So yes, firearm companies are well aware that they can't piss the gun owners off too much. They're one of the few industries that have actually faced an effective boycott in recent history. Most boycotts aren't widespread enough to be 'effective'.

And I don't think that works for this argument because the police or military wouldn't involve themselves in a boycott, and a new maker could survive on a smaller initial market.

They might not involve themselves in a boycott, but the military does their purchasing their own way, and most firearm companies can't survive on the military market alone. You lose the military contract and you're gone if you're dependent upon that. As for the police - they're more distributed, but note what I was saying - the police might not deliberately boycott the company, but they're not buying the smart gun versions. If all you're producing is smart guns, right now that means that the police will keep buying Glocks.

I will note that police and military are probably the worst market for smart guns since they don't really need to worry about 3rd parties getting their guns and their guns are explicitly for combat situations.

Uh, say what? I'd suggest doing a couple google searches on topics like 'military weapons stolen'.
http://www.myfoxboston.com/new...
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12...
https://www.gunandgame.com/thr...

Also, the police are probably one of the better targets for smart guns because being killed by their own weapons is a real problem:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c...
"Fifty-one officers were killed when their department-issued firearms or another officer’s gun were turned against them."

Fails as I don't drink.

So because you don't drink, nobody every drinks? Well argued. Guess this didn't happen then. or this. or this. or this. or this. Aren't the things that don't happen amazing?

- I then stab my spouse to death because the gun wouldn't fire. outcome worse than 'bad'.

So it's ok to kill people while on methamphetamine, because people high on coke also kill people sometimes?

Well argued.

Scenario 2: (a) the burglar isn't a burglar, he's a home invader.

And also, he's constantly chasing a long legged bird with the aim of capturing/killing said bird with products he has purchased from ACME corporation. And you forgot to mention he is a coyote.

(b) daughter knows not to sneak in.

Oh. that's all right then, I guess. We don't need to worry about the dead kids.

(c) try finding this actually happening. Removing a firearm from an armed person's hands only really happens in the movies. It's too easy to just shoot somebody trying to snatch your weapon.

OK then

(d) bad conservative/libertarian police: So what? It's the intruder's fault for breaking in. If he doesn't want to risk getting shot, he shouldn't be breaking in.

Sure. We don't need to worry about the dead kids. Just pile em up out back.

The complaint is reasonable, but has little-to-nothing to do with Civil Liberties. I'd rather ACLU concentrated on defending the Second Amendment and right to speak any language you damn please without fear of being kicked off of an airplane.

HAHAHA, fuck no. They'll use the guise of protection of the police and beat you, or even shoot you if you try to record them. Turn about is not fair play, they want the power. They will lie to you and say it is illegal to record them and destroy the video. If you are lucky you might get a payoff from the city while the officer keeps his job.

http://www.ironmill.com/2011/08/31/man-faces-life-in-jail-for-recording-police-video/
http://www.pixiq.com/article/las-vegas-cop-beats-man-for-videotaping-him
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18706155/man-who-says-he-was-beaten-for-recording-police-receives-33000-settlement
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/08/opinion/la-oe-turley-video-20111108

You have a strange interpretation of Jim Crow since Occupy protestors clearly appeared involved these crimes:

1. NY: 10/1/2011 Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
2. Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation
3. Phoenix: 10/28/2011 Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?”
4. NY: 10/18/2011 Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters
5. NY: 10/9/2011 Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR
6. NY: 10/7/2011 Occupiers Rush Police More
7. Cleveland: 10/18/2011 ‘Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped
8. NY: 10/10/2011 ‘Increasingly Debauched’: Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street?
9. Seattle: 10/18/2011 Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested
10. 10/12/2011 Iran Supports Occupy Wall Street
11. Portland: 10/16/2011 #OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead
12. Portland: 10/15/2011 #OccupyPortland Protesters Sing “F*** The USA”
13. Chicago: 10/17/2011 COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago
14. 10/15/2011 American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street‘s ’Courage,‘ Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight ’Judeo-Capitalist Banksters’
15. Boston: 10/14/2011 Coast Guard member spit on near Occupy Boston tents
16. Boston: 10/11/2011 Boston Police Arrest Over 100 from Occupy Boston
17. New York: 10/11/2011 You Can Have Sex with Animals.
18. New York: 10/15/2011 Harassing Police with Accusations of Phony Injuries
19. New York: 10/9/2011 Occupy Wallstreet Protesters Steal from Local Businesses
20. New York: 10/25/2011 Three M

You have a strange interpretation of Jim Crow since Occupy protestors clearly appeared involved these crimes:

1. NY: 10/1/2011 Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
2. Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation
3. Phoenix: 10/28/2011 Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?”
4. NY: 10/18/2011 Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters
5. NY: 10/9/2011 Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR
6. NY: 10/7/2011 Occupiers Rush Police More
7. Cleveland: 10/18/2011 ‘Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped
8. NY: 10/10/2011 ‘Increasingly Debauched’: Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street?
9. Seattle: 10/18/2011 Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested
10. 10/12/2011 Iran Supports Occupy Wall Street
11. Portland: 10/16/2011 #OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead
12. Portland: 10/15/2011 #OccupyPortland Protesters Sing “F*** The USA”
13. Chicago: 10/17/2011 COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago
14. 10/15/2011 American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street‘s ’Courage,‘ Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight ’Judeo-Capitalist Banksters’
15. Boston: 10/14/2011 Coast Guard member spit on near Occupy Boston tents
16. Boston: 10/11/2011 Boston Police Arrest Over 100 from Occupy Boston
17. New York: 10/11/2011 You Can Have Sex with Animals.
18. New York: 10/15/2011 Harassing Police with Accusations of Phony Injuries
19. New York: 10/9/2011 Occupy Wallstreet Protesters Steal from Local Businesses
20. New York: 10/25/2011 Three M

"Occupy Wall Street" is a fringe movement spouting tired, old, leftist dogma and hate. The only thing it has in common with the "Arab Spring" is that there are threads of anti-Semitism running through both.

Occupy Wall Street Goes Global

Sunday Reflection: Protestors should try occupying reality for real change

Right now, idealistic young Americans are gathered together to fight injustice and build a better world.
Sure, they're a little dirty, and maybe some of their language is a bit rough, but they've left behind family and friends, as well as the creature comforts the rest of us take for granted, to make a stand for what they believe in.

It's just too bad that today the mainstream media is focusing on the spoiled, incoherent clowns of Occupy Wall Street and ignoring our young fighting men and women.

The mainstream media's cameras can't get enough of these pierced protesters, with their crudely written signs proclaiming their unfocused discontent and general anger at society's selfishness in failing to satisfy their every want and desire.

Of course, those cameras discreetly turn away when the placards demanding socialist revolution and blaming the Jews come out. The protesters' function is to demonstrate inchoate outrage simply by being there. When they start talking, they start alienating the normals.

These are Potemkin protesters, community organized by government worker unions to allow liberal Democrats a way to triangulate to the center next year. Only the rebel media outfits will actually stick a mic in the protesters' dirty faces and let them talk.

What comes out is a confused hash of gripes about their banks, complaints about their student loans, and whining about the quality of their jobs.

Tragically, graduates of Ivy League universities brandishing master's degrees in minority women's studies are not getting jobs that pay enough to service their $150,000 student loans. Who could have seen that coming?

PICKET: Occupy Wall Street protesters post manifesto of 'demands'

Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements (Updated)

Occupy L.A. Speaker: Violence will be Necessary to Achieve Our Goals

Video: Occupy Portland Protesters Sing “F*ck the USA”

THOUSANDS Of Obama-Endorsed “Occupy Chicago” Protesters CHEER the Communists (Video)

Wall Street: Occupied by Anti-Semites?

Political party paying Occupy Wall Street protesters?

More Anti-Semitism at Occupy Los Angeles

Coast Guard member spit on near Occupy Boston tents

‘Occupy’ protesters branch out

Well I live just outside Boston, so I just forwarded this article to all the contacts I could find at the various local & national news organizations including:

newstip@globe.com
newsdesk@necn.com
iteam@wbztv.com
http://www.myfoxboston.com/generic/about_us/contact_us/news_tip
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/newscenter5/index.html

etc.

I've often wondered why the TSA's "Behavioral Detection" crap can't detect thieves like Brown, Burton, Simmons, Defelis, Noukeo, Burley, German, Persad, Webb, Pepper, and Arato, or actual sex offenders like Sean Shanahan and Charles Henry Bennett, or complete suicidal whackjobs like Diego Gonzales who was an actual TSA BDO. Shouldn't his fellow BDOs have noticed... I don't know... something wrong?

"Your honor, I was frisking the individual to determine whether or not he had a dangerous weapon on him as allowed by Terry v. Ohio. On feeling his front right pocket I felt a hard slim object that in my professional judgment could have been a knife. I removed it based on that belief and discovered that it was instead a spoon with charring on the bowl. This gave me probable cause to suspect the use of narcotics, and so I initiated a full search based on the requirements set forth in the Fourth Amendment."

Of course, 9 times out of 10, the cop doesn't have to use such subterfuge. It's amazing how many people give consent to "do you mind if I look inside your car?" (Always. ALWAYS tell them that you do not give consent. Even if you know you don't have anything illegal, say no.)

Plus remember that unless it's a traffic stop with the cop's dash cam rolling, it's again your word against the cop's as to whether or not he searched you legally. He can search you, find contraband, and then claim he saw evidence of it prior to the search, giving him probable cause. And even if there's a dash cam vid that shows this didn't happen, in many departments, by astonishing coincidence the dash cam "fails" right at the moment that your defense attorney is interested in.

In fact in some cases there were multiple squad cars, and all of the cars experienced an amazingly coincidental dash cam failure at the critical moment. Funny how that happens.

( http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/police-dash-cameras-not-operational-during-dj-henry-student-shooting-25-apx-20101103
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=708&sid=1938732
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=428&sid=1116072 )

The bottom line is that (and you can verify this by reading the forums at officer.com) whether you are innocent or not, cops assume you're guilty, and they assume you're lying to them. This then puts them into the mindset of "I'm gonna get that goddamn dirtbag (that is a term they use, and not just in bad movies, also verifiable on officer.com) if it's the last thing I do," and so even some cops who aren't specifically out to harass innocent civilians end up doing so because they don't view us as innocent, and think the ends of getting another dirtbag off the street justify the illegal means of doing it.

This is a story about an crime committed in Apex, North Carolina by a man from Sanford, NC and tried in a Boston, Massachusetts court. Why does the summary link to a story in an Australian web site? Why not, say, to this: http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/crime_files/crime_watch/nc-man-pleads-guilty-to-stealing-from-emc-corp-25-apx-20110107 or this: http://www.abc6.com/Global/story.asp?S=13800798?

TSA agent charged with raping 14 year old girl But it's ok! Lets have them grab crotches of our teenage sons and daughters, take naked pictures of our wives, etc. It makes us safer!

This article is very short on context. It says nothing about "rape" happening while the TSA employee was on the job or where it occured. It definitely has no actual link between security patdowns or procedures and molestation and the only reason to imply so is sensationalism. Futhermore, it sounds like they had a relationship and multiple sexual encounters so it may have been "statutory rape" simply due to the difference in age rather than an actual forced sex act. You could say Postal Employee or Exxon Employee for all that the article you link to tells us.

TSA agent charged with raping 14 year old girl But it's ok! Lets have them grab crotches of our teenage sons and daughters, take naked pictures of our wives, etc. It makes us safer!

And he's not the only one: Online predators arrested in Orlando sex sting include TSA screener.

"Also arrested was Joseph Cioffi of Altamonte Springs -- a U.S. Homeland Security employee who trains screeners at Orlando International Airport, the Sheriff's Office reported."

The people training the Freedom Fondlers are part of the problem. What if they're hiring their friends? It could be like the Catholic church scandal, but this time, they've got the force of law behind them.

TSA agent charged with raping 14 year old girl
But it's ok! Lets have them grab crotches of our teenage sons and daughters, take naked pictures of our wives, etc. It makes us safer!

Better hope it's not in Boston!!