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8. CHARGEBACKS 1. 8.1 In certain circumstances, Card Issuers, Card Schemes and/or Other Financial Institutions refuse to Settle a Transaction or require repayment from Us in respect of a Transaction previously Settled and/or Remitted, notwithstanding that Authorisation may have been obtained from the Card Issuer and/or Other Financial Institution (such circumstances being a " Chargeback").

and

# 8.5 Where a Chargeback occurs, We shall immediately be entitled to debit Your Merchant Bank Account and/or make a deduction from any Remittance in accordance with clause 7.3.1 and/or invoice You in accordance with clause 7.3.2 to recover: 1. 8.5.1 the full amount of the relevant Chargeback; and 2. 8.5.2 any other costs, expenses, liabilities or Fines which We may incur as a result of or in connection with such Chargeback (" Chargeback Costs"). # 8.6 A Chargeback represents an immediate liability from You to Us and where the full amount of any Chargeback and/or any Chargeback Costs is not debited by Us from Your Merchant Bank Account or deducted from any Remittance or invoiced as referred to in clause 8.5, then We shall be entitled to otherwise recover from You by any means the full amount of such Chargeback and Chargeback Costs (or the balance thereof, as the case may be). # 8.7 We shall not be obliged to investigate the validity of any Chargeback by any Card Issuer, Card Scheme or Other Financial Institution, whose decision shall be final and binding in respect of any Chargeback.

It sucks and merchants get the shaft and as locallyunscene said, "Credit Card Companies have a very sweet deal."

The same system ... failed for the banking system - allowing people to move their account numbers between banks was evidently too expensive..)

The UK banks won't let you keep your account number (the first half [sort code] identifies the bank, I assume they don't want to lose this convenience) but when you open a new account they'll offer to transfer over any direct debits, inform your employer for you and so on. (NatWest's explanation of this.) I assume they offer this to try and attract new customers.

Some banks already do this (at least in the UK). They send out a card reader that you use for a challenge/response when you put your bank card and PIN in. It's only required for making payments to new people, so you can your view balance and make payments to people or organisations you've made at least one payment to before. It's not perfect but it goes some way towards improving security. More here

Natwest do, because that's who I bank with. So do Lloyds and Barclays. The rollout of these devices is still in progress, they're trying to do it gradually from what I see - but they'll probably give you one if you ask for it.

Barclays have been providing a device they call PIN Sentry since early 2007:

http://www.barclays.co.uk/pinsentry/

NatWest introduced their offering summer 2007:

http://www.natwest.com/microsites/general/card-reader-user-guide/index.asp?cmp=reader

I believe you're right about Lloyds not having followed suit just yet.

http://www.natwest.com/: Microsoft-IIS/5.0

Hmmn, idea forming. If i were to go to http://slashdot/ i should get all the sites registered at slashdot.tld appear as a list, perhaps with a small preview thumbnail/description. That way i could plainly see that http://www.ati.co.uk/ isn't the site i want whereas http://www.ati.com/ must contain a UK section (under /uk).

I am starting to get to a stage where i'm not sure which TLD i need. With two banks i have online banking facilities. However one has http://www.nationwide.co.uk/ whereas the .com is a US site. The other uses/advertises/redirects to http://www.natwest.com/ (although in this case .co.uk works too).

There are a few counter-examples off the top of my head for that; my bank and mlb.com both support Firefox but not Safari. Pearson VUE also mention Firefox but not Safari (click on the "Sign In" link). I've also seen quite a few people still using IE on OSX (it still works). Not that I'm saying that you're wrong, it's just that it seems to me to be happening as Firefox gets bigger.

And digging slightly deeper, it looks like there are actually technical problems with Opera. And they also explicitly support Firefox. Yay.

Unsupported Browser
You cannot access this application form using your Internet Browser. Please use a recent version of Internet Explorer, Netscape, Mozilla or AOL (PC only).

Unsupported Browser
You cannot access this application form using your Internet Browser. Please use a recent version of Internet Explorer, Netscape, Mozilla or AOL (PC only).

My banks online banking login never asks for the full password, but for something like the 3rd, 5th and 7th character from the password and 3 out of 4 digits from a pin number (not in order).

go to this site (it's a UK bank). click on the 'continue' link and you'll see you browser disallowed. if you go there with ie you'll see that all there is to the page is a form to fill in nothing special.

The adverts have been jokey in nature, but scathing to their competitors at the same time.

Perhaps these smaller systems, unheard off by most people, are being replaced by more well know organisations, which people have some level of trust in. E.g. Natwest (large UK bank) have something similar: http://www.natwest.com/personal/services/onlineser vices/index.asp?navid=PERSONAL/ACCOUNTS_SERVICES/O NLINE_SERVICES/FASTPAY

Funny you should mention that.

I currently have a bank account with NatWest. After they 'upgraded' their site, and .asp's started appearing instead of .jsp's, it became impossible to use their online banking unless you used Internet Explorer.

Annoyed, I decided to hunt out alternatives and found Intelligent Finance, which works fine with Mozilla.

Of course, as well as working fine with Mozilla it also happens to have a drastically better mortgage than the Natwest one I currently have, and I am right now in the process of moving my mortgage over. I am saving, literally, thousands of pounds.

So...Natwest annoying me with locked-in pages lead to me going investigating competitors, which in turns lead me to switch away from Natwest completely.

Consumer preferences in action.

Cheers,
Ian

I also hate having to switch to IE for this and I have written to them too but not received any acknowledgement.

One of the problems will be that they use activex for some parts of their authentication. Linux people like me will have trouble with that.

They do cater for Mac users and I'm not sure how.

Here's the feedback page if you want to make a complaint:

Regards,

Tim

However, the major hold up is that my bank refuses to allow me to use it - the site became inaccessible to modern Netscape/Mozilla browsers curiously enough at about the same time the whole thing went .asp-based.

UK Natwest-using Slashdotters - do your bit! I have, I've mailed their feedback section asking when a Netscape greater than 4.x will be supported, pointing out the new AOL announcement. I added Mozilla in too, but this is a mainstream place and hammering on at their Netscape support is likely to get you further.

Query form is here and then select "Feedback" from the drop-down.

Cheers,
Ian

Most of the high-street banks have SOME kind of online-banking, but most of them require windoze software, or some of them have nice java software but it checks you're running windoze before letting you run it! (yes, there are hacks, but I'd rather not give THOSE kind of people my business)...

Egg has a nice interest rate, and has done it The Way It Should Be Done with no java, just plain HTML, CGI, HTTPS... but they only allow you to pay out into your one or two nominated accounts, so you can't use it to pay bills, give money to friends, etc etc, and anyway, their security panics and locks you out if you dare to use the wrong capitalisation in any of the security questions.

marbles isn't a bank after all. anyone tried first-e? any good? what about any of the others?

I'm after something that will take my pay-cheque, and look after it, preferably earning a little interest. Something that will let me pay bills, pay money to friends, or transfer to other accounts. It MUST NOT make a fuss about me using any more secure OS than most of the rest of the planet. It should PREFERABLY not use huge java apps either, but I'd probably put up with java if it met all my other requirements.

Help! :-)