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'Greasemonkey' Malware Targets Firefox

snydeq writes "Researchers have discovered a new type of malware that collects passwords for banking sites but targets only Firefox. The malware, dubbed 'Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.A,' sits in Firefox's add-ons folder, registering itself as 'Greasemonkey,' the well-known collection of scripts that add functionality to Web pages rendered by Firefox. The malware uses JavaScript to identify more than 100 financial and money transfer Web sites, including PayPal, collecting logins and passwords, which it forwards to a server in Russia. Trojan infection can occur via drive-by download or download duping."

370 comments

  1. I wish by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wish I could use this as an excuse for all the money disappearing from my PayPal and bank accounts, but sadly I can't....

    --
    This guy's the limit!
    1. Re:I wish by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish I could use this as an excuse for all the money disappearing from my PayPal and bank accounts, but sadly I can't....

      See? With Firefox, you wouldn't have that problem! :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:I wish by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 3, Funny

      Now you can ask for a government bailout!

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    3. Re:I wish by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I give out my paypal password all the time.

      It's Fire98-myFun.

      it will do you no good without my keyfob and it's current 6 digit number. My bank, paypal, ebay, and 2 of my credit cards use the same keyfob because they use verisign and it defeats every single one of these trojans, keyloggers, and scammers. Why they are not common place I'll never understand.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:I wish by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "it will do you no good without my keyfob and it's current 6 digit number. My bank, paypal, ebay, and 2 of my credit cards use the same keyfob because they use verisign and it defeats every single one of these trojans, keyloggers, and scammers. Why they are not common place I'll never understand."

      Interesting...I'd not heard of such and option being available for PP, eBay or banks.

      What bank is that with?

      Do you have links on how to set this up with PP and eB? Is it one fob that does it for them all or one for each?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:I wish by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

      That is the sort of thing we are probably going to have to start doing for any of the really important sites (banking, work related are the two I can think of right now) we need to log into. Keyloggers are just becoming too common.

    6. Re:I wish by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20070118/paypal-security-key-fob/

      covers paypal and ebay. It's been in place over a year now. You will need to go searching online in ebay and Paypal to find the real links. I had to be logged in to find them and they are internal links.

      My bank is a michigan only bank, so it'll probably not be available to you, but the whole system is verisign based so if the company uses verisigns system the same keyfob works for all of them.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    7. Re:I wish by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      PayPal has a keyfob which generates random security codes (every 30 seconds the code changes). You enter the current code, and it allows you to log in. Presumably the other sites work the same way (eBay should be identical since it merged with PayPal anyway).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    8. Re:I wish by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:I wish by aonaran · · Score: 2, Interesting

      well, I've been trying for a year to get Paypal to send me one, I even offered to PAY them for it. Nno go. I'm in Canada, and despite the fact that I use the same PayPal.com as all the US customers and they are constantly advertising it to me they refuse to send me one.

    10. Re:I wish by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are so wrong it's not funny.

      One-Time-Password devices do little to protect against man-in-the-middle, man-in-the-browser, session hijacking, or CSRF attacks.

      They are useful against some sorts of attacks, but not when the attacker is already in your browser. He just has to wait for you to log in normally, then he does what he wants with your session.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    11. Re:I wish by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Wonder if they're worried about export restrictions on cryptography?

      Also wonder if a friend in the US couldn't order one, "lose" it, and it mysteriously end up in your mail? Could you register it to your account? ... m'kay probably not ...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    12. Re:I wish by aonaran · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I take back my complaint, I just tried it again and the charged me $5 CAD and said it'll be arriving in the mail shortly. I was logged in with my business account this time though, maybe that makes a difference.

      Yay! I'm finally getting a PayPal RSA token. I can feel safer knowing my PayPal has equivalent security (on the authentication level anyway) as my Work VPN has had for years.

    13. Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about real time MITM? Even if this is *today* stashing your 60s password to a DB rendering it useless, there are nefarious parties that automate this exactly because of OTP use:

      http://www.finextra.com/fullstory.asp?id=16360

    14. Re:I wish by grrrl · · Score: 1

      Too bad PayPal is not governed by banking laws and can do away with your money anyway, without anyone stealing your password!

    15. Re:I wish by DramaGeek · · Score: 1

      What bank do you use? I'm in Michigan too, and have been watching for a bank that offers these.

    16. Re:I wish by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      Tinfoil hat: perched at a jaunty angle.

      Why they are not common place I'll never understand.

      Because:
      a) They're expensive
      b) If your details are "leaked", and you have a secure password, and you didn't lose your keyfob or leave it lying around a random IP in Russia, then the onus is on the bank to prove they didn't accidentally leak your details, rather than the current assumption that "Oh, you let people know when your birthday is/let people know what your mothers maiden name is/didn't patch windows in time for the latest 0-day/didn't patch your antivirus/look at the SSL certificate closely enough/examine your ISP DNS servers for the Kaminsky bug/reverse engineer your OS kernel to check for rootkits, therefore it's your fault your data got leaked!" - almsot all of which involve the victim having to prove a negative. My boss at work had all of these excuses come at him over the phone when his month-old debit card took about a grand out of his account before he noticed.

      I asked at my bank for an account that came with a SecurID token, and was told I'd need at least 50k in order to get one. We use SecurID extensively at work, and although pricey it's not *that* expensive, especially when customers like myself are willing to fork out extra just for the privilege of helping the bank improve their security practices. The only explanations I can come up with for it not being more widespread is either due to inertia/laziness or unwillingness to publicise any data breaches so as to limit public liability.

      Maybe I should take the blue pill.

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    17. Re:I wish by Zerimar · · Score: 1

      If you were really brave, you would also post your PayPal login ID along with your password.

    18. Re:I wish by spammb · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This has to be one of the stupidest devices ever from the FAQ:

      Can I still log in to my PayPal account if I lose or break my token, or if I don't have my mobile phone with me?
      Yes. During login, we'll ask you questions to help confirm your identity. When you answer them correctly, you'll be able to log in.

      Isn't the whole point of this device that you have to have it to log in? What extra security does asking some questions to confirm my identity do if I have a virus logging everything I type?

    19. Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only problem with that is that PayPal lets you skip the six-digit code if you know a credit card number, a bank account number, or two security questions. I know, because I hate looking for my keyfob.

      You still shouldn't give out your password. It turns two-factor authentication right back to one-factor.

    20. Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why they are not common place I'll never understand.

      Probably because current users like to talk about it without providing any information about what the hell it is, where to buy one or how to build one.

    21. Re:I wish by Genda · · Score: 1

      Actually it's one for each, but you can get the master keyfob from Sauron... one keyfob to rule them all!!!

    22. Re:I wish by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Same here in New Zealand. "Here, have... no, wait, no you don't."

      You can officially have less security on your PayPal account than your World of Warcraft account in this country.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    23. Re:I wish by nog_lorp · · Score: 0

      Cool, a 6 digit number should be way easier to brute force than a 6 to 16 digit alpha-numeric with symbols and capitals password.

    24. Re:I wish by Baton+Rogue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A 6 digit number that changes every minute? Good luck with that.

    25. Re:I wish by Meski · · Score: 1

      Expensive? $6.50USD from Blizzard.

    26. Re:I wish by Lavene · · Score: 1

      Isn't the whole point of this device that you have to have it to log in? What extra security does asking some questions to confirm my identity do if I have a virus logging everything I type?

      It's not a problem. Everyone knows that the question/ answering method is very secure.

    27. Re:I wish by sash · · Score: 1

      In the case of my bank, the generated key is only required when operating on the account - making a payment, changing personal data etc.
        I consider this actually better, because you get used to never have to give all of them together - which would allow a window of opportunity for the keylogger to use your temp password to login to the real account and make transactions from it.

    28. Re:I wish by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      One-Time-Password devices do little to protect against man-in-the-middle, man-in-the-browser, session hijacking, or CSRF attacks.

      They are useful against some sorts of attacks, but not when the attacker is already in your browser. He just has to wait for you to log in normally, then he does what he wants with your session.

      Most one-time-passwords require a password be entered to complete each financial transaction (that's the system with my bank). This does not make a man-in-the-middle or man-in-the-browser attack impossible, but raises the difficulty by a considerable amount. The attacker would have to hijack a legitimate transaction by entering the fraudulent payee account information into the real web site while spoofing the intended payee information to your browser (and the bank gets this information, obviously, so it's trackable). It would also have to spoof and reformat the transaction history which is updated in parallel in another frame. Not impossible, but quite tricky and suitable only for use on customers of a single bank.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    29. Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the number on the key fob changes every 30 seconds, pressing the button on the fob generates a number. So even if you have the email, password, and the 6 digit number, within 30s a new code has been generated...

    30. Re:I wish by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      All you need to do is get one sent to a friend. then have him mail you it.

      then you go and activate it by giving paypal your keyfob serial number.

      I used my bank's one on paypal and ebay. I never bought theirs.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    31. Re:I wish by danwesnor · · Score: 1

      Asuming 1 attempt per second, one would only need 17,000 bots in his net to take every penny in your bank account. Of course, we all know botherders don't read Slashdot.

    32. Re:I wish by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      After several failed attempts, I believe PayPal will lock down your account regardless of how many IP addresses the attempts are coming from.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    33. Re:I wish by danwesnor · · Score: 1

      Toche'. I think auto lockouts or enforced delays between log in attempts are much better security against guessing than forcing password rotation or complex passwords.

  2. PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... this only affects Windows?

    1. Re:PC ONLY? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Virus and Malware are registered trademarks of the Microsoft corporation, so yeah, business as usual.

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    2. Re:PC ONLY? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      No? Since the plugins run on all platforms, or?

    3. Re:PC ONLY? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      PC != Windows. Unless the trojan installs via a Windows executable (which is a possible attack vector but certainly not the only possible one), the FF add-on/Javascript code will run on any platform.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    4. Re:PC ONLY? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 5, Informative
      Since reading the article is for loosers anyway...

      This [plugin] is intended to be delivered onto a compromised computer system by other malware for subsequent download into Mozilla Firefox's Plugin folder

      Since the computer need already be compromised... sure you can draw your own conclusion on that one :)

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    5. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That really IS funny.

      However, as this virus is JavaScript-based and the infection vector is browsing to a malware-infested site, there's no reason why it won't work just as well on a Linux system!

    6. Re:PC ONLY? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Viruses and Malware are features, not bugs!

    7. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      spelling "losers" correctly is for losers too.

    8. Re:PC ONLY? by Bourbonium · · Score: 2, Funny

      Since I haven't yet RTFA, I can't comment with any authority (as if I ever do), but if it's a javascript exploit, then I suppose it could affect any platform. My credit union's online banking portal only allows me to use Internet Explorer, so I can't even get to my bank account through Firefox or Opera or SWIron (which I prefer to Chrome). Oh the irony! Here's one instance where IE is a safer alternative to FF!

    9. Re:PC ONLY? by drachenstern · · Score: 4, Informative

      But I thought the sequence usually went like this:

      1. Install Firefox
      2. Install noScript
      3. ???
      4. Don't get infected by js vector based viruses.
      5. Get flamed on /. for pedantic usage of noScript to designate a particular add-on to Firefox, and for not using the general designation of either FX3 or FF3...

      No, but really. If you have noScript, as most everyone I know using Fx does, then how do you get infected by a virus that uses js as an attack vector...

      Guess I'll keep reading the thread and see if the answer arises.

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    10. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whew, good thing I'm a loser.

    11. Re:PC ONLY? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 3, Informative

      It is written in Java script, but the delivery system is windows only. This malware also does not use its own delivery system. (don't worry, you would have to read the article to know that and we all know reading the article is for losers)

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    12. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he really meant "loosers" that is, people who "loose" things, like their money or a pack of hounds or (in this case) the relevant information in TFA, into the world.

      This is to be contrasted with "losers" who lose things, like their money, to the world. Careful! The difference is subtle.

    13. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      loser!

    14. Re:PC ONLY? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "No, but really. If you have noScript, as most everyone I know using Fx does, then how do you get infected by a virus that uses js as an attack vector..."

      Hey, thanks for mentioning NoScript...I'd not heard of it and am messing with it now.

      Hehe..because all your friends use something, please don't assume everyone else does...thank you for mentioning this!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:PC ONLY? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      I've seen many a unix system owned by a worm, and Apple is now telling users to install antivirus software; so your joke isn't really that funny these days.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    16. Re:PC ONLY? by Intron · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's javascript in firefox, so the malware writers could have made it platform-independent with a little bit more work. But did they? NO! Yet another example of ignoring the Linux platform.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    17. Re:PC ONLY? by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      By looking at the number of downloads I see that NoScript has been downloaded over 31 milion times and a quarter of a milion downloads each week on avarage...

      --
      Here be signatures
    18. Re:PC ONLY? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Since the computer need already be compromised...

      Or the user can be tricked into installing the plugin. All the security in the world can't save users from themselves.

    19. Re:PC ONLY? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Well, it is frequently updated. Sometimes several times in a day.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    20. Re:PC ONLY? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 1

      +1 not a looser. A malicious plugin? sure, but not this one. You need to be tricked into installing the malware, then at the plugin developers (whoever) can choose to install it on your system, basically.

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    21. Re:PC ONLY? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 1

      I am sure Microsoft will find someway to sue them for trademark infringement, or something. Maybe they can still get a patent, not for the virus, but for "a method or process for efficiently and discretely inserting points in code for future necessary improvements to amortize software engineering productivity". eh?

      More proof Microsoft may have already had this trademarked or patented.

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    22. Re:PC ONLY? by drachenstern · · Score: 1

      a) that's a good point, my apologies for doing that ASSuME thing again...

      b) I heard about it from the same group I heard about Fx, so... I mean, if I say Fx to someone who's never heard about it, I say noScript in the next breath. To me they go together like bread and butter, or perhaps, macaroni and cheese. Or Steak and Beer. or... er... yah

      c) [t]he[y] does a phenomenally good job with the software, and there are some other good add-ons from that same origination vector.

      ---

      So what other add-on's do you frequently use? I prefer to use flag-fox for a little browser visual cue/check, and I use download statusbar, adblockplus and foxmarks. other than that, I don't have a large number of add-ons running, but my officemates use stuff like fire.fm, and weatherbug...

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    23. Re:PC ONLY? by jralajid · · Score: 1

      yeah it's very difficult for most of the users when the malware are registered trademarks of the Microsoft corporation.

    24. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for reading the article and letting us know, LOSER!

    25. Re:PC ONLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zing!

    26. Re:PC ONLY? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I use Adblock Plus, Download Statusbar, DownloadHelper, FireFTP, IE Tab, and Tab Mix Plus. I've also used FasterFox in the past but I don't think they have an official Firefox 3.0 version of it out yet (I primarily like it for its easy "clear cache" shortcut).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    27. Re:PC ONLY? by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      It automatically updates itself so that's not a part of the equation...

      --
      Here be signatures
  3. What to do with the Money? by toodeepforme · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Yes, but does that mean anything? I mean, unless it also documents online sites that sell vodka, are the russians honestly going to do anything with it?

    1. Re:What to do with the Money? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      If I promise to spend it all on fine Russian vodka, can I have all your money?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:What to do with the Money? by ijakings · · Score: 1

      Only if i can have the vodka

    3. Re:What to do with the Money? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Tell you what... if you can find me, I might share it with you.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  4. only firefox? by phrostie · · Score: 0, Troll

    ok, a little more information would be nice.

    is this firefox only or does it affect all mozilla browsers?
    Seamonkey?
    Galeon?

    does it affect all platforms since it's Java?

    anyone know?

    1. Re:only firefox? by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      I'd presume anything that supports Mozilla add-ons would be affected. But that is just a guess.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    2. Re:only firefox? by scientus · · Score: 2, Informative

      its javascript so the end code is probably cross-platform, weather the delivery takes place on multiple platforms i do not know but largely depends on the delivery mechanism, as a xpi it would probably be fully cross-platform.

      mozila vs firefox, who friggen knows

      someone should publish the javascript, the press report was totally bull

      also java != javascript

    3. Re:only firefox? by miknix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mozilla needs your permission to install plugins from unverified sources.

      But since windows standard practice is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

    4. Re:only firefox? by Brain-Fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      from the article:
      Users could be infected with the Trojan either from a drive-by download, which can infect a PC by exploiting a vulnerability in a browser, or by being duped into downloading it, Canja said.

      This is utterly unacceptable. They should give instructions to users on how to avoid downloading this.

      They listed two ways in which systems get infected. One is "by being duped into downloading it." The instructions to avoid this are easily enough translated as your standard Internet hygien guidelines: "When websites offer browser-enhancements to you, say no," and "don't execute email attachments even if they come from trusted friends."

      However, I want more detail about this "drive-by download" bit. There is a hole in my browser that will make it automatically download this addon, without prompting me? Give me a link. Give me the details. What versions have the hole? Has it been patched? Is there something I can do (other than "browse nothing") that will prevent this hole from being exploited? People need these details.

    5. Re:only firefox? by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 5, Funny

      does it affect all platforms since it's Java?

      anyone know?

      It's not Java, it's JavaScript - two very different languages linked only by a common marketing fuckwit.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    6. Re:only firefox? by dedazo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But since users' standard practice is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

      There, fixed that for ya.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    7. Re:only firefox? by MrMr · · Score: 5, Funny

      The problem has been diagnosed by BitDefender, and they can sell you all the peace of mind you ask for.

    8. Re:only firefox? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The cool thing about Firefox is that you can basically force users into installing malware by exploiting bug 59314. Just keep popping up a dialogue box (with no way to stop it or switch to another tab) until the user gives in and says yes.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    9. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      someone should publish the javascript, the press report was totally bull

      Meh, even without seeing the code it's pretty easy to figure out what they most likely did. All they'd have to do is create an onSubmit that sends an Ajax request to their server with the contents of the username and password fields on the form being submitted. Considering that add-ons (AdBlock, for example) can already inject and/or remove HTML from the dynamic page, it doesn't surprise me in the least.

      Then all they have to do is figure out how to deploy it – obviously the Firefox plugin repository isn't going to host their malware, so distributing it in such a way that people are fooled into installing it is going to be tricky. 'Course, if you have control of a botnet, it might be possible to instruct the zombie machines to install it without the user's knowledge (not sure how FF's add-ons are managed, so it might or might not be possible, and it'd probably have to occur while FF wasn't running).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    10. Re:only firefox? by 77Punker · · Score: 1

      I love job interviews that involve "Your resume says Java, so you must do some Javascript since they're so similar, right?"

      At that point, telling the truth becomes a very hard decision to make.

    11. Re:only firefox? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well the languages have many similarities. Most of them are the same as the similarities of JavaScript and Java and C++ but still for the novice coder they look like the same language. But yes they are very different languages not related to each other.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    12. Re:only firefox? by Rudisaurus · · Score: 4, Informative

      More details here

      --
      licet differant, aequabitur
    13. Re:only firefox? by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      However, I want more detail about this "drive-by download" bit. There is a hole in my browser that will make it automatically download this addon, without prompting me? Give me a link. Give me the details. What versions have the hole? Has it been patched? Is there something I can do (other than "browse nothing") that will prevent this hole from being exploited? People need these details.

      It sounds like they're just playing "what-if". If you've got a malicious Firefox addon, how do you get your victims to install it? Obviously the first step is to trick them in to installing it - a variation on the trojan (as named). The other way is to try and install it without user interaction. How to do that? Find an exploit in the browser, a helper application (Flash, Acrobat, Quicktime, etc.), or the OS itself to perform a generically-labled drive-by download.

      Whether any of this is actually happening or not is a big question. Actual case examples would be interesting. However, such details tend to get lost in the Corporate filter.

    14. Re:only firefox? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Except a dialog box only pops up when installing addons from a trusted source. When an addon comes from an untrusted source you get the information bar, which you can ignore or close.

      I'm guessing the page in the bug (it's a non existent domain) uses an endless stream of alert()s which is the issue you described but does not affect installing addons from untrusted sources.

    15. Re:only firefox? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nowhere does it say it is Java. In fact, I don't see any Java. I see JavaScript, but that is completely unrelated to Java (if the name confuses you, take it up with Sun, their marketing department wanted to leech off of Java's success). There is only a JavaScript file and a Windows Netscape Plugin. So it probably only affects Windows.

    16. Re:only firefox? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 1

      There are some really fancy words they use here to blow this completely out of proportion, for example, the word 'new' is completely inappropriate. I am pretty sure 'drive-by download' means 'thoughtless download'. Or go to any number of sites that track windows bugs that are begging Microsoft to fix (since you are not allowed to fix bugs yourself) and pick any number of vulnerabilities that would enable this. It is just yet another implementation of some old exploits.

      And mind you, fta, it requires that a system already be infected with other malware that will install this java into your plugins folder. Unless the delivery system is cross platform, there is no way to get this into your plugins folder. Second, if it is installed manually, there is no validation necessary because it is not using the browser for the installation. Next, more than likely because this is being done remotely, the easiest thing to do is assume one kind of standard installation, and given it is masquerading as GreaseMonkey, it is better to cover your tracks by only installing the plugin onto machines that have a straight forward, default, c-drive install of Firefox. Having manually installed plugins before via script (custom ubuntu installer) different broswers, even between Mozilla web browser and Firefox web browser use different names for their directories. While it could hunt for the plugin directory and figure it out, that is a bit more work than just an assume or fail delivery system.

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    17. Re:only firefox? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Yes, the page has been taken down since it was mentioned in the bug report. I don't know what exactly it was trying to make the user run (perhaps just a Windows executable not a Firefox extension) but it was something unpleasant.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    18. Re:only firefox? by D_Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      The cool thing about Firefox is that you can basically force users into installing malware by exploiting bug 59314. Just keep popping up a dialogue box (with no way to stop it or switch to another tab) until the user gives in and says yes.

      If you're a moron, I guess. I see something do that, and I'm opening Task Manager and killing the entire process manually.

    19. Re:only firefox? by The_Wilschon · · Score: 1

      Even that still says nothing of consequence about the infection vectors. But it is certainly useful, so thanks.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    20. Re:only firefox? by Matt+Perry · · Score: 1

      The cool thing about Firefox is that you can basically force users into installing malware by exploiting bug 59314.

      Only if you consider being an asshole to be cool.

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    21. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Newsflash, teenybopper: The world is not divided into "morons" and "people who know how to kill apps in Taskman".

    22. Re:only firefox? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      According to the article, it contains a file "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\plugins\npbasic.dll", therefore it probably is Windows only.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    23. Re:only firefox? by Reece400 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've had quite a few issues with Ubuntu because of my years of using windows. I'm used to hitting Enter rather than clicking for the default actions. Especially the overwrite file dialogs which default to 'no' in windows and 'yes' in ubuntu

    24. Re:only firefox? by Vancorps · · Score: 4, Informative

      I ran into this when I visited a site that another admin got the Antivirus 2008 trojan from. Of course I'm on Ubuntu so I was pretty sure simply visiting the site wouldn't cause any problems. I kept getting prompted to install it so I just found out what link it kept calling and just modified my hosts file to point it to localhost and then I got out of it like I should.

      Pretty devious exploit though.

    25. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      from the bitdefender link:

      Removal Instructions
      Close the Firefox browser

      WTF???? ARE YOU FSCKING KIDDING ME???

      input! need input! lol

    26. Re:only firefox? by DuctTape · · Score: 1

      At that point, telling the truth becomes a very hard decision to make.

      No, at that point the question is where is the nearest door.

      DT

      --
      Is this thing on? Hello?
    27. Re:only firefox? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      taskmanager, end process, then restart the mozilla, and never go back on that website again

    28. Re:only firefox? by DuctTape · · Score: 1

      Users could be infected with the Trojan either from a drive-by download, ...

      Depends on what TFAA meant by drive-by download... worst case in my imagination would be that it installs itself without asking mother may I. I believe that there is a little install countdown thingie that at least makes sure that the question stays on the screen long enough so that you can see that something is going on, rather than letting an errant keypress or mouse click install it.

      DT

      --
      Is this thing on? Hello?
    29. Re:only firefox? by msimm · · Score: 1

      Kill-task. But ya, that's a serious bug. And how about the master-password pop-up? I'm not any good with javascript (I hack what I have to) but wouldn't it be possible (trivial) to create an identical pop-up and exploit that?

      Not that I'm trying to bang on FF, but as a chronic 'save session' user I notice that password pop-up a lot (especially because it comes up multiple times if you have multiple windows open in the restored session).

      --
      Quack, quack.
    30. Re:only firefox? by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      Mozilla needs your permission to install plugins from unverified sources. But since windows standard practice is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

      IIRC, it doesn't need your permission, it simply won't do it without manually editing the configuration file. The Bitdefender article has some insight on how it works.

      is intended to be delivered onto a compromised computer system by other malware for subsequent download into Mozilla Firefox's Plugin folder. Once installed it gets to work every time Firefox is started.

      All that crap about "drive by downloads" is BS. The only way you could get this is if your machine was already compromised.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    31. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That's actually pretty strange... the "default" action is, by tradition, supposed to be the one that's easier to "undo".

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    32. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But since windows standard practice is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

      So we're all safe, as Firefox puts "Install Now" on the button...

    33. Re:only firefox? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Not exactly devious, since that bug is apparently as old as my 4th Grader nephew...

    34. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and by an IT technician at my company, who, when told a user couldn't do something or other on some web site because javascript was disabled, promptly reinstalled the JVM on their workstation. i was listening in to this conversation as it happened and cringed with fury the whole time.

      hooray for competence, amirite??

    35. Re:only firefox? by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bingo, I have seen malware in both Firefox and IE installed using the "endless loop" dialog box that the previous poster pointed out on Bugzilla(BTW, how freakin sad is it that the bug is from pre-1.0 and is still there?). Here is how I saw it work, by using a test box i keep for bug testing and removal practice. I found the bug by going through the users history and going where he went.

      Here is how it works. You get Mr. Stupid Horny Guy to look at some topsites, you know the ones, a bunch of hot babe thumbnails that take them to yet more topsites. After a few minutes he will hit a site with a dialog box that says something like "You won a free hour in our hot babe video vault! Simply click yes to download the player and watch your hot videos full screen!" but thanks to the bug if he hits cancel it simply throws another dialog box in his face until he hits yes. If Mr Stupid Horny Guy even knows about ctrl/alt/del (which many don't) they will find the PC slow to a crawl whenever they try to launch it. So for Mr Stupid Horny Guy the choices come down to A=yank the plug out of the back, or B=click yes. So you can guess which of those 2 gets chosen more often.

      I just wish Mozilla would put a cancel button automatically on all dialog boxes that would just kill all scripts on a page. It would probably cut way down on the drive by downloads, at least the ones I have come across.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    36. Re:only firefox? by jessemerriman · · Score: 1

      Try holding down ctrl-w while closing the dialog. Works much of the time.

    37. Re:only firefox? by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      Javascript alerts can't have input boxes on them, so it's not "easy" to make a box that looks like the master password box. However, you could do one of those in-page popups with a background that looks like a window in XP with the default theme that looks like it. Anyone on a different OS or different style might notice, but people on the default might not.

    38. Re:only firefox? by penguin_dance · · Score: 1

      The malware uses JavaScript to identify more than 100 financial and money transfer Web sites, including Barclays, Wachovia, Bank of America, and PayPal along with two dozen or so Italian and Spanish banks. When it recognizes a Web site, it will collect logins and passwords, forwarding that information to a server in Russia.

      If you have a "master password" set in FireFox to protect your passwords, would THAT foil it's collection method? I'm guessing that it simply moves through the bookmark and then open password file vs. having to wait until you enter the password into a form.

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    39. Re:only firefox? by pizzach · · Score: 1

      To install a firefox addon without the gui, all you have to do is insert the extension (unzipped) into the correct folder. I know this because I do it to quickly test extensions during development by using a symbolic link to the actual folder.

      I suppose the crackers would still have to crack into the user's computer some other way first.

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    40. Re:only firefox? by innerweb · · Score: 1

      It's not?!?!?!?

      Oh Damn! I am going to have to redefine my social expectations again.

      InnerWeb

      --
      Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
    41. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (if the name confuses you, take it up with Sun, their marketing department wanted to leech off of Java's success)

      I seem to remember it being called LiveScript when it was first introduced, then the name being changed abruptly. It was called Mocha before that.

      And that's one to grow on!

    42. Re:only firefox? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Notepad.exe?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    43. Re:only firefox? by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Most of the bloatware (plugins) comes from "normal" applications like VOIP, anti-virus, Google apps of any form, Yahoo, ...

      The only difference is that evil sites uses this code to steal stuff.

      The core of the problem is that ________ (insert your favourite company) should put a better security on plugins and don't allow 3rd party companies to install their crap at will.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    44. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      prompt() much?

      But no, it probably wouldn't look exactly like the master password input box, and the password would be visible as they typed it. Still, some people might be dumb enough to fall for it.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    45. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in xp I just ended process via task manager

    46. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      No, it monitors the sites you visits and steals your username/password combo when you log in.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    47. Re:only firefox? by Kugala · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, Opera does give the option to disable all scripts on a page whenever one pops a dialog box.

      Now if only they could find a way to skip the damned adds that places put now between 2 pages. Even when you block them, you still have a page that says "Click to continue"

    48. Re:only firefox? by santiagoanders · · Score: 1

      and weather != whether

      --
      "There can be little doubt that union activities lead to continuous and progressive inflation." F. A. Hayek
    49. Re:only firefox? by Pontiac · · Score: 1

      This is why I run the NoScript Plugin for Firefox
      It blocks Java Flash and other scripts from running until I white list the source.

      http://noscript.net/

      --
      If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
    50. Re:only firefox? by habig · · Score: 1

      Considering that add-ons (AdBlock, for example) can already inject and/or remove HTML from the dynamic page, it doesn't surprise me in the least.

      Oh great. I hope the FF team doesn't take this as reason to remove the ability of plugins to do this.

      They already screwed up file selection dialogs for alleged security reasons. In FF3, if you need to select a file for upload in some interactive form, you can't type or edit the filename - only click through a file selection dialog. This is an enourmous PITA if you've got a number of things you're uploading, or if you're happier typing instead of clicking. And, they've locked this down so you can't write a plugin to fix things, lest someone write a malware plugin to circumvent their "defense".

      On the way straight back to a read-only web. Early 90's here we come!

    51. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only bitdefender can protect you. You cannot save yourself!

    52. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You ever watch the old Clint Eastwood movies? Regardless of the context, the world is binary: 'There are two kinds of people in this world...' (The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly; which, ironically, is trinary)

    53. Re:only firefox? by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      Newsflash, teenybopper: The world is not divided into "morons" and "people who know how to kill apps in Taskman".

      That's right, its morons and people who use an OS with a "kill" command. :-)

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    54. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Considering that the ability of add-ons to interact with the dynamic HTML page is vitally important to numerous add-ons' functionality, I don't think they'll remove this.

      Yes, not being able to type into the file upload box is a PITA, and I really don't know why they disabled this... it's not like they couldn't have just prevented scripts from interacting with the input element. If the element can't be focused (meaning the text entry part, to steal keypresses, not the button part which pops up the file open dialog – which is handy to be able to programmatically launch) and its value can't be read or changed, then there's not much a script could do maliciously.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    55. Re:only firefox? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I do use Noscript on all my machines, but for my customers it really is a "nuke it from orbit" solution which causes more problems than it solves. What we need for Noscript is a "average Windows user" setting which would whitelist Youtube and the other popular video sites, along with a "horny guy" setting that would add Porntube, Redporn,etc. Because I have tried to teach my Windows customers about whitelisting but sadly it turns into another Vista style "always click allow" which kills the whole point. Perhaps a simpler dialog box interface for Noscript than the current one? Maybe one that would detect .flv,.swf,rmb,etc and have a simple "click if you want to play the video" button?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    56. Re:only firefox? by gerf · · Score: 1

      Duh, use Killbox instead. Not all programs can be end-tasked.

    57. Re:only firefox? by bit01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But since users' standard practice, as trained by M$ security theatre over many years, is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

      There, fixed that for ya.

      ---

      Don't be a programmer-bureaucrat; someone who substitutes marketing buzzwords and software bloat for verifiable improvements.

    58. Re:only firefox? by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      I mean the annoyance factor, you keep being a good user and hitting cancel to install the software and it just keeps automatically reloading so the user can never get out of it without losing all their stuff.

      With the restore session feature you could end the task and the be right back where you left on when you re-opened FF. I think devious is the right word but I'd be open to a few other adjectives like annoying or irritating.

    59. Re:only firefox? by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      The cool thing about Firefox is that you can basically force users into installing malware by exploiting bug 59314. Just keep popping up a dialogue box (with no way to stop it or switch to another tab) until the user gives in and says yes.

      It just proves that modal dialogs suck.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    60. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you have to admit javascript sounds better than ecmascript, which sounds like a nasty skin rash!

    61. Re:only firefox? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Don't be a twitter. We both know that users receive no training from Microsoft, and that in fact even in Windows it is really almost never a good idea to click the "OK" button (Cancel is always the safe option). Users being users though, they'll always choose "OK".

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    62. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 speaks the truth

    63. Re:only firefox? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      No, Wordpad is far less pleasant.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    64. Re:only firefox? by Rinkhals · · Score: 1

      I once went to a job interview (it was in the eighties, please be gentle...) where the suit interviewing me said:

      "Basic programming, huh? Well we're far more advanced than that here."

      I didn't get the job.

      --
      "I'm a snake if we disagree"-Jethro Tull, Bungle in the Jungle
    65. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No!
      In linux (at least in my experience) there is not so many 'Ok's ... so it is easy/interesting to read before where u going to click Ok...
      so I guess it is mostly windows users practice to click Ok everywhere (I even notice it on myself when I doing smth in windows... because I don't care about windows computers, it doesn't matter what will happened after me)

    66. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be this one?

      bug 59314: Firefox ignores the kill button in task manager, the kill and kill -9 commands on *nix, and (something) on OSX.

      Oh, it's not. So where's the part about forcing anyone to do anything?

    67. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RE: "I just wish Mozilla would put a cancel button automatically on all dialog boxes that would just kill all scripts on a page"

      go to http://noscript.net, do some reading there.
      Firefox add-on works a treat.

    68. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's javascript.
      Go to http://noscript, do some reading. It's a firefox add-on and works very well provided you put the effort in to understand how to use it properly.

    69. Re:only firefox? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      - Most users are not techies and do not know about kill(1) or even Windows task manager. Firefox is intended for everyone, not just propellerheads.

      - Even if in some magical world the kill(1) command were understood by everybody, Firefox should not rely on you using it for something that should be taken care of in the browser; just like it purges its disk cache automatically and does not expect the user to manually run 'df' and 'rm'.

      - Even in that magical world, kill(1) will not terminate the running Javascript in a single tab. All it can do is signal the entire process. If you kill the Firefox process then you lose all your work in other tabs. (If you ask to restore the tabs on startup, then you get back to the same endless loop of Javascript...)

      - Firefox is designed to be able to operate in 'kiosk' setups where the task manager or command prompt is not available.

      Of course you are much too smart to be coerced into installing anything by an endless series of Javascript popups. But it does work a lot of the time; otherwise the malware authors wouldn't do it.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    70. Re:only firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why don't y'all just cruise the web in a sandboxed browser if ya know you're gonna be seeing the dark side of the force?

    71. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      The Ugly aren't people. They're in a whole other classification.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    72. Re:only firefox? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing putting BASIC in all caps didn't help?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    73. Re:only firefox? by miknix · · Score: 1

      But since users' standard practice, as trained by M$ security theatre over many years, is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

      There, fixed that for ya.

      Yeah! The allow/deny app access control in Vista is the exact example how microbloft "train" users to simply click without reading.

      If your OS is constantly popping up windows with YES/NO, ALLOW/DENY, ACCEPT/CANCEL .. whatever, you'll get pissed off and click on whatever shows up next without even reading.

      Micro$oft clearly has it share of guilty on this one.

    74. Re:only firefox? by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      Sorry I was thinking of a normal user name:/password: box. I forgot that the master password box only has one value..

  5. This is a veiled blessing... by mamono · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, it is not good that there is malware targeting Firefox, but it shows that Firefox is on it's way to be a market leader/dominator. Much like the recommendation of using antivirus on Macs, this shows that there is enough of a market penetration for Firefox that it has garnered the attention of malware writers.

    1. Re:This is a veiled blessing... by Madball · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yay! We're safe because mac/linux/firefox is secure by design. Oops. Yay! We're safe because no one bothers with attacks on us. Oops. Yay! We're being attacked and thus might finally be important?
      ----
      Note: Actually a fanboy, but a realistic one.

    2. Re:This is a veiled blessing... by thtrgremlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think an important thing to note here is that this is not using a Firefox exploit. It is using existing malware to manually install a plugin into Firefox. There is no proof of concept here at all, but point taken.

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    3. Re:This is a veiled blessing... by bbbaldie · · Score: 1

      Let's see how quick a fix is posted. Ooooh, I hope we don't have to wait until Tuesday, January 13...

    4. Re:This is a veiled blessing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL... I appreciate the irony on these statements.

      Cheers!

    5. Re:This is a veiled blessing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops. Yay! All of us shouting that are all just a bunch of morons and trolls.

  6. I should have know it was a mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never punch the Greasemonkey!

    But the deal on the nuclear wessel was too good to pass up. Plus my IP address was apparently being broadcast TO THE WORLD!

  7. DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by Hari+Kant · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would suggest that DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" and Login ids in any Browser where Sensitive Information will be sent ultimately.

    1. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Informative

      I guess the malware remenmbered those passwords itself, so not storing them in the password manager wouldn't help.

      IMHO the fact that you can use plugins with Firefox means that there should be an extra security barrier inside Firefox that disallows extensions to get passwords (e.g. when accessing the password lines, it would just get the stars which are also displayed on the screen).

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Um, all they'd have to do is gather the username/password from the form when you submitted it. Considering that add-ons can dynamically rewrite the HTML of the page you're on (AdBlock, for example), that wouldn't be hard. Send the login credentials to their server using Ajax before the form submits, and you'll never know it happened.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    3. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would suggest that DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" and Login ids in any Browser where Sensitive Information will be sent ultimately.,/quote>

      Well, that'll stop the really stupid malware authors that sit down at your PC and copy the file that stores your passwords. But it won't stop the one who left a key logger, the other who is doing control scrapes, the guy looking over your shoulder, the in-memory debugger that waits for a POST submission and copies everything in the data struct, or the FBI (who knows about those magazines under your bed too).

      If you want to offer some advice to people that'll result in a real increase in security, tell them to install NoScript, or not to download executables and run them without scanning them. Tell them to install Spybot, or AdAware, or AVG Free. But don't ask them to turn off a convenient feature because it will stop the .1% of attackers too stupid to figure out a better way of getting that information.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by duplicate-nickname · · Score: 1

      That's a really good point. How do I know that the latest update to Forecastfox isn't now ready my browsing history or passwords and uploading that information to a third party. Many addons do not need access to the web page being rendered, so I wonder why there isn't some additional layer of security there.

      --

      ÕÕ

    5. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by clone53421 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Javascript is already capable of getting the value of a password field, and even if it wasn't they could just redirect the form action and get the password that way.

      Try this: go to Paypal.com (any page with a password field, really), type in something arbitrary into the password field, and then paste this into the address bar:

      javascript:for(var a=document.getElementsByTagName("input"),i=0;i<a.length;i++)if(a[i].type=="password"){alert(a[i].value);i=a.length;}void(0);

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    6. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by Kamokazi · · Score: 1

      That should be an optional setting though, because many people like to use password managers, and plugins should be able to catch and manage passwords if we allow them to.

      Maybe a warning dialog "XXX extension is trying to record or monitor your password? Allow or Deny?" (yes, I worded that like UAC on purpose for comedic effect)

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    7. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do I know that the latest update to Forecastfox isn't now ready my browsing history or passwords and uploading that information to a third party. Many addons do not need access to the web page being rendered, so I wonder why there isn't some additional layer of security there.

      You don't. You are trusting solely that the developers are honest and/or that an interested third party reviews their code to ensure it does not do this. But this isn't any different than closed-source; When you install Windows, you're trusting that Microsoft hasn't trojaned their software either. Really, what people fail to understand is that all security is based on trust.

      What's mind-blowing though, is that people overwhelmingly are honest.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    8. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by sinclair44 · · Score: 1

      And, of course, taking this to the extreme, you get "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

      --
      Omnes stulti sunt.
    9. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by moreati · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Given that javascript can be injected into a page in various ways, and as you show it can access the contents of input fields. Would there be any milage in blocking access to the contents of password fields from javascript. Would that break many sites?

      IIRC the file upload element works this way, to avpid revealing the file path to the website.

    10. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the file upload box doesn't need to give the full path to the server. The password box needs to give the password to the server, so the redirection attack will work on it even if you prevent scripting from checking the value.

      Furthermore, keep in mind that Javascript is used all the time to verify if(passwordbox.value == passwordverifybox.value). Break that and you'll have a lot of unhappy developers... even if you create an alternative method, say if(passwordbox.matches(passwordverifybox)), they'll still have to change all their code to make it work in FF again.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    11. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanks! just what i need! i forgot my password the other day~

    12. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's a good way to remember a password that you've forgotten. You could also do it the long way: Go to Tools, Options, Security, Saved Passwords, Show Passwords, Yes.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    13. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by snspdaarf · · Score: 1

      ... or the FBI (who knows about those magazines under your bed too).

      Why does the FBI care about "Information Week"? I sure as hell don't, but it just keeps on showing up in the mail box no matter how much I ignore it.

      --
      Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
    14. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      He didn't say he had that password stored, only that he forgot it. So it maybe that his browser is opened on that page with that password typed in and he didn't allow the browser to store the password. He didn't close the page yet though. Far fetched, but possible.

    15. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by BZ · · Score: 1

      Since the JS can also just change the form action to evil.com and submit the form, there's not much mileage here.

      The file control sends the file but NOT the file path to the server. There are proposals to allow JS access to the file content of the selected file (but still not the path).

      Basically, anything JS can send to the server might as well be available to the JS directly.

    16. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      ...

      Lemme think about it...

      ...

      Nah.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    17. Re:DO-NOT "Remember Passwords" by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      But what if the JavaScript would e.g. return a hash of the typed password? Then things like comparing would still work, but the password wouldn't be revealed. Of course it would open up the password for brute-force attacks; however that could be prevented by salting, where the salt is randomly changed every time a new page is loaded (so JavaScript comparison between passwords really only works if both come from the same load of the same page).

      A redirection attack could be prevented by disallowing redirecting a form with password. Or even by simply giving a confirmation alert whenever the destination server doesn't match the server the page comes from.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  8. Good on you! by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, this just proves that it's easier to develop for Firefox than IE. ^_^ Of course, it's a very backhanded compliment.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Good on you! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      You forgot the </snark> tag ;)

  9. also by ODiV · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What happens if you already have Greasemonkey? Would it stop working or does the malware work fine alongside it?

  10. Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Vellmont · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's just part of the mounting evidence that username/password combinations for banks is inherently flawed. "Somthing you know" can always easily be known by someone else. Bank security should (IMO) be also based on "something you have", like an ATM card.

    If banks really wanted two-way authentication to work properly, they'd use a hardware device (USB-key) that had to be present in the machine to login to your account. The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

    --
    AccountKiller
    1. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by qoncept · · Score: 1

      The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

      That should be simple enough. Seriously, though, if a key like that were introduced, it would just be one more layer these people would have to overcome.

      It's just part of the mounting evidence that username/password combinations for banks is inherently flawed. "Somthing you know" can always easily be known by someone else. Bank security should (IMO) be also based on "something you have", like an ATM card.

      True that. I find it incredibly stupid that, not only is my mother's maiden name not hard to come by, but when I type it it shows up in plain text. Or if I call to get my password reset and you are sitting in the cube next to me, you know my father's middle name. And that is all you need to know to reset my password again.

      --
      Whale
    2. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Elemental+MrJohnson · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some banks already do this (at least in the UK). They send out a card reader that you use for a challenge/response when you put your bank card and PIN in. It's only required for making payments to new people, so you can your view balance and make payments to people or organisations you've made at least one payment to before. It's not perfect but it goes some way towards improving security. More here

    3. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by the+99th+penguin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seems to vary from country to country, in some (like Sweden I believe, UK banks seem to have more of a PRNG device, at least that's what Barclays gave me) all banks provide a Challenge-Response system for logging into your account, similar to the RSA fob I am sure many here have used for secure logon.

    4. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If banks really wanted two-way authentication to work properly, they'd use a hardware device (USB-key) that had to be present in the machine to login to your account. The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

      Yeah, but I'd love to access my bank information from linux, thanks.

    5. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by saintsfan · · Score: 1

      some Banks do hardware authentication (USB key or RSA solution), especially for commercial banking/payment services. It just hasn't been rolled out to many retail customers. considering many banks dont provide wire transfer services over the web to regular retail customers, it may not be necessary in all cases (although online statements might facilitate fraud). but IMO, it isn't practical or even feasible to make anything "impossible" to copy/replicate or get around in some manner, but obviously more secure is better for this.

    6. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Seriously, though, if a key like that were introduced, it would just be one more layer these people would have to overcome.

      Well, a physical device is a layer which isn't so easily overcome through the network. Provided it doesn't have any security holes of its own, of course. But then, you'd not want to just rely on an USB stick, because that one could be physically stolen. Better would be an ATM card reader with builtin PIN keypad (so the pin doesn't even reach the possibly compromised computer).

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by vally_manea · · Score: 1

      Actually my bank has that and I guess almost all the banks in my country have something similar - they call it a DigiPass and basically it's a small electronic device where each time you want access to the Home Bank you enter a PIN and it returns a onetime password.

    8. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardware/ checks do not prevent MITM attacks.

      Two factor authentication is better: Bank sends you a text message on your cellphone and you type it back to bank. Better yet, have a live human being do this and use.

      But all this security talk is very silly:

      Online fraud will flourish because banks are making out like gangbusters on "card not present" transactions. If they make 20 million / year due to "card not present" transactions, but lose 5 million / year to fraud, there is no reason at all to curb online fraud.

      Moreover, most ID theft is no big deal, banks will cover you. Fraud is is an acceptable risk designed into the system.

    9. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      "The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it."

      And the banking site should be implemented in a such a way that hackers can't hack it.

      And the car should be implemented in such a way that it won't break.

    10. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Technician · · Score: 1

      Bank security should (IMO) be also based on "something you have", like an ATM card.

      I was thinking along the lines more like an IP range. If I could register and lock all transactions to the Comcast domain IP range, then most of these out of country attacks would fail.

      The ability to register 2 domain IP ranges would be nice, so those who shop on break at work for faster connections could do it.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    11. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by thrillseeker · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem to me to be so hard that a bank couldn't autocall/autotext your cellphone and ask you to verify a transaction.

    12. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      It's just part of the mounting evidence that username/password combinations for banks is inherently flawed. "Somthing you know" can always easily be known by someone else. Bank security should (IMO) be also based on "something you have", like an ATM card.

      If banks really wanted two-way authentication to work properly, they'd use a hardware device (USB-key) that had to be present in the machine to login to your account. The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

      It is certainly do-able.

      Software manufacturers have been using dongles of various types for years now. I've got a couple clients with software installed that requires a USB dongle to be plugged into their PC in order to run. Shouldn't be too hard to do something like that for your banking site.

      Or how about the VPN keychain fob things? Folks have been using those RSA keychain fobs to secure VPN logins for ages... Even Blizzard is using them now. Why not use them to log in to your bank's website?

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    13. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ETrade has Digital Secure ID for "something you have"

    14. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the banking site should be implemented in a such a way that hackers can't hack it.

      That is already the case. AFAIK, almost no online banking fraud is done by attacking the bank's website. It is the user's PC that gets hacked.

      What the other poster suggests is quite possible, and has been done for years. There are many smartcards and authentication devices made by companies like RSA that you use to log in with challenge-response. Because the secret key is held on the device and is never disclosed to the outside world, you cannot copy a device without physically disassembling it and getting out the key by probing the electronics.

      Because you can't download free smileys or animated cursors to install on your smartcard, or indeed load any software onto it at all, it cannot be attacked with downloadable malware.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    15. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jemtallon · · Score: 1

      Well, to be considered secure they are supposed to have at least 3 of the following:
      Something you know
      Something you have
      Something you are
      Something you can do

      Sadly, I've yet to run into an online banking system that fits that criteria. That's not to say it's impossible, it just requires someone to get creative and nobody has yet. I'd like to say that I avoid online banking because of it but I still occasionally check my balance through their website despite that lack of security. The alternative would be to call them and that's even less secure.

      That being said, most banks do much better with in-person transactions. Many require you to show your ATM card or an ID (have), your picture is on the card and/or in their system (are), and then you need to know a PIN number (know) or sign something (do). So I do try my best to go into the bank for most of my transactions.

      Honestly, the only reason I use online banking is to make sure I am not going to go overdrawn. Sadly going overdrawn costs more to clean up than if someone were to hack my account so I'm willing to live with that security risk.

    16. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      No, there's a better way.

      Instead of the antiquated magnetic stripe cards, all the banks would have to do is make the cards thicker and use a proximity scanner along with a random number generator. Put the random number generator in the card, updating every X minutes.

      PayPass uses magnetic stripes, but reads them from a distance. Maybe that would work instead of prox.

      Anyway, you'd then have:
      1. Your card with the random number, which you have.
      2. Your PIN, which you know.

      Two-factor security. Easy.

      You could stop ID theft with another minor upgrade: Add a photo to credit reports. The End.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    17. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Indeed, in Germany at least one bank (probably more of them, but one I know for sure) has this as option: When you make a transaction they send you an SMS with a TAN which you then have to enter to finish the transaction.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    18. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in Chile it's required by law that for bank transactions you must use something like those key generator devices.
       
      With these things, you don't need to have a USB key that probably would exclusively work with IE.

    19. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As good interpretations of "something you have" goes... In addition to uid/pids in Germany we also have a randomly generated set (approx 70 for me) of one time use 6 digit numbers given to us at the bank for internet transactions. Everytime i want to do something with my money (in addition to my uid/pid) the process will ask for one of the numbers.
      anon

    20. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Plekto · · Score: 1

      I'm actually amazed that this doesn't exist already. When you open an account, they give you a tiny USB dongle with the account and that gives you access to your specific account. It would hardly cost them much more than the ATM cards that they already give you.

    21. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are already doing it: my bank gave me a tiny one-time password generator in addition to username and password...

    22. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Reziac · · Score: 1

      My bank uses the visual token thing along with standard login/password. I get to name the token myself, and the bank's site displays that name along with the image, to assure me that I'm in the right place. I've named mine something weird or spelled strangely, so even if a spoof site had the right visual token, it's unlikely in the extreme that they'd =also= have the right name for it.

      However, I suppose it could still be pillaged by a smart screen-scraper, and the same goes for anything that can be displayed or typed.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    23. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least here in Finland using an online bank requires: Username and dedicated pin (password). You then have a matrix of changing passwords which is random between users, and enter one password which it requests (or the next one depending on the bank). After finishing your transactions you need to commit them with another set of 12 (or so) codes which are asked in random order.

      Phishing won't work, but I have heard of one successful exploit. It worked by malware entering something in the hosts file, and somebody manually requesting values on the other end. The user would then get the impression of a really slow service while the attacker (in real time) logged into his account. When ever the attacker was asked for a code the fake website would ask for it. Finally the user would get an error, and a request to try again later.

    24. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bank of America has the SafePass card and service now. http://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=7872

      Bank of America has quietly become the first major bank in North America to make security tokens widely available to average consumers. This is a huge step forward in the fight to make it tougher for cyber thieves to hijack online banking accounts.

      While big banks all across Europe and Asia have long made it mandatory for customers to supply more information besides a username and password to access online accounts, most big U.S. banks have dug their heels in and vigorously resisted making so-called "two-factor authentication" widely available to U.S. consumers. I wrote about this controversy in this 2005 Money cover story.

      However, if you are a BofA customer, you can spend $19.95 and get its new SafePass Card, a nifty wallet-sized card with an embedded button. Push the button and SafePass issues a one-time-use, six-digit security code that appears in the upper right corner of the card. This is a major tech advancement over the clunky key-fob security tokens that have been around for years. You must then use this one-time code, along with your username and password, to access your online account and complete transactions.

      I just finished speaking about cybercrime trends at the FinSec 2008 security conference in New York City. I took to the podium just after Jason Witty, Bank of America's Information Security Executive for Global Information Protection, gave a presentation on what BofA is doing to protect its online banking customers. I asked Witty if BofA officials discussed making use of the SafePass Card mandatory. After some hedging, he told me that a seamless rollout to BofA's 25 million-plus customers was deemed "close to impossible."

      Still, BofA deserves a lot of credit for being the first U.S mega bank to make true two-factor authentication widely available to average consumers. If your online banking usernames and passwords aren't already for sale in criminal forums, they probably soon will be. That's because data-stealing keystroke loggers now routinely infest email and IM spam, not to mention you can get a keystroke logger embedded on your hard drive by simply clicking on tainted web links that are cropping up all over social networking chat rooms and on millions of popular web pages.

      What's more, security experts report a big spike in proliferation of sophisticated banking trojans -- tools cyber thieves use to siphon cash from online bank accounts. The converged use of keystroke loggers and banking trojans allowed a German gang to pull off an Ocean's 11-like heist, in which they snatched $6 million from online banking customers of banks in the USA, UK, Italy and Spain.

      All U.S. banks have met the federal rule requiring them to meet a 2006 deadline to have "strong authentication" in place for online banking accounts. Witty told me Bank of America decided to go the next step and embrace full, two-factor authentication (albeit on a voluntary basis) because "defeating strong, but not two-factor authentication, is getting easier and easier" for the bad guys.

      So if you happen to be a BofA online banking patron, the $19.95 you spend to get a SafePass Card may be the best 20 bucks you've ever spent. It may be slightly less convenient than simply typing your username and password; but you'll have peace of mind knowing no cyber thief can get into your account, and hijack your hard earned cash, without the one-time security code.

      By Byron Acohido

    25. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by maxume · · Score: 1

      A while ago, the company that ran the online stuff for my credit union switched from requiring 2 things that you know (user,pass) to 3 things that you know (user,pass,secret answer).

      I gave my credit union a lot of credit for the promptness with which they switched vendors. I guess it would be smart to find a bank that uses a token system, or maybe text message pins, but at least they aren't inconveniencing me and pretending that it is security.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    26. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by ap7 · · Score: 1

      Not many people seem to know about another method used for Two Factor Authentication systems. Corporate VPNs often use RSA tokens (synced with corporate servers) which display random numbers that you have to key in with your password or PIN in order to get access. The random number changes every 10-15 seconds. The RSA token expires in a couple of years or so. It works very well and requires physical access at the time of login and not just some time in the past. The way I see it, such a system would be completely safe from this type of attack. But has a significant cost component.

      Another way would be for the bank to SMS a random one time password (OTP) to your registered mobile phone when you want to login. Enter that OTP with your usual password to login. Standard Chartered already does this for some of its netbanking services. Other banks do too. It can easily be extended to the rest of the system at a slight increase in cost to both the bank and the client.

      All in all, systems that are invulnerable to this attack are easily implementable. And banks are waking up to this fact too. But a bit slower than is preferable.

    27. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by maxume · · Score: 1

      Dongles are often everything that they are cracked up to be:

      http://www.woodmann.com/crackz/Dongles.htm

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    28. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by bendodge · · Score: 1

      Nice idea, except that this requires you to be running a supported environment. (And we all know how well banks support people using alternate software.)

      --
      The government can't save you.
    29. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      They'd have to develop (and support) the software that allowed the browser to interface with the USB dongle. Cross-platform, please, and get ready for a call from my Aunt Pearl when she can't make it work.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    30. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

      *snap* I get it! We could have some sort of hardware dongle! Nobody could break that.

      Sorry, that was harsh. I think something like the RSA SecureID cards are a lot more useful, as somebody mentioned above. You need the password and the random-but-synchronized 6 digit number that changes every 20 seconds. Damn near impossible to duplicate.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    31. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it."

      Uhhhh... yea... You know, I shouldn't even have to say it. So nevermind.

    32. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jemtallon · · Score: 1

      Very true. Banks are just concerned with making and keeping money so they don't care about security until the risk outweights the cost. Personally, I think the risks are higher than the cost most have put into prevention but that's not my call to make.

      To be fair, Paypal is trying. For around $10, you can purchase an RSA key from them that receives a satellite signal that changes every 60 seconds. Then when you login you are required to enter the number on the device and your password. That's 2 out of 4. The text-messaged code would be another way to incorporate the "have" requirement. The problem is that they don't require more than a password as a minimum - users can choose to pay extra for more security but they don't have to.

    33. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      It's $5, and it changes every 30 seconds, and I'm quite sure it's generated by an algorithm contained in the device itself – no satellite signal required. (Satellite signals have trouble penetrating buildings anyway.)

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    34. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by frosky · · Score: 1

      If banks really wanted two-way authentication to work properly, they'd use a hardware device (USB-key) that had to be present in the machine to login to your account. The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

      curiously enough, banks in mexico provide customers with either USB dongles, or them dingy's with the numbers that change. For the most part i hate the hoops one has to jump through and inconvenience about such systems, and the libertarian in me thinks that restrictions should increase in proportion to actual threats rather than perceived ones. So I'm torn between recognizing that robust security systems should be in place, and the ease of use that i've come to enjoy. Sadly i know which way the wind blows...and it blows!

    35. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Bank security should (IMO) be also based on "something you have", like an ATM card.

      Over the internet, it's difficult or perhaps impossible to tell the difference between something the user has (e.g., the ATM card, or USB key, or whatever) and something the user knows (e.g., the numbers on the card, or the algorithm and private key the USB key uses to generate fresh numbers each time, or whatever).

      > The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible
      > to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it.

      I don't think that's technically possible, and even if it were, people lose small objects all the time, and they can also be easily stolen.

      Security is hard. There are no magic bullets.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    36. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by sexconker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because the secret key is held on the device and is never disclosed to the outside world, you cannot copy a device without physically disassembling it and getting out the key by probing the electronics.

      1: Not yet. For some devices touted as "secure", you can. Easily.

      2: The key is on the banking server as well, or at least the method to generate or validate it at any given time.

      Your server will be compromised.
      The end user will lose the dongle.
      The dongle will be cracked.
      The dongle will malfunction.
      Malware to attack the dongle without physical access will be written.
      Your encryption scheme has weaknesses.

    37. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      1. Yeah I know marketing departments being what they are, there will be many devices marketed as 'secure' which aren't. That does not imply that no secure authentication devices exist. They do exist.

      2. No, the key is not on the banking server, at least not necessarily; it's a public/private key pair, so the banking server has the public key (which, as you know, can be distributed widely) while the private key is on the device. Similarly each device has the bank's public key but only the bank has its private key.

      2a. If the bank's secure server is compromised then all account security is lost anyway, so the whole discussion kind of assumes the bank is able to avoid their systems getting hacked. (By and large, they do.)

      >The end user will lose the dongle.

      Yeah - in which case someone who picks it up has a chance of getting into the person's account if they know the account number and password. That's what we were discussing: that you have to possess the smartcard or other device to access the account.

      >The dongle will be cracked.

      That gives access to one account only (the private key or secret stored on the smartcard is just for that account).

      >The dongle will malfunction.

      That could happen. In which case the user loses access to their account.

      >Malware to attack the dongle without physical access will be written.

      Not possible for the reasons given. The device *is not connected to the computer at all*. Typically, they work by the bank site displaying a number on screen; the user types in the number using a keypad on the device and the device shows a response code for the user to type into the computer and send back to the site.

      I am not saying that malware can't interfere in other ways, for example, it could sniff the bank balance displayed on screen, or change the user's keystrokes so that the account number to transfer to is different. To avoid that, you would need to have all interaction with the site go through the device.

      >Your encryption scheme has weaknesses.

      Indeed, that is another thing that can go wrong. But the kinds of secure devices sold by companies like RSA (for at least fifteen years now) are unlikely to be cracked any time soon. If the crypto is successfully broken, then we are all in trouble.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    38. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this isn't useful anymore, consider a well distributed botnet which has decent penetration for comcast and the other major ISPs.

    39. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      2. No, the key is not on the banking server, at least not necessarily; it's a public/private key pair, so the banking server has the public key (which, as you know, can be distributed widely) while the private key is on the device. Similarly each device has the bank's public key but only the bank has its private key.

      ? I'll assume you were talking about the private key for the dongle first, and then the private key for the bank. Otherwise it makes no sense.

      In that case, it's a classic key-sharing problem. Still subject to all sorts of digital attacks (man in the middle, malware logging data, etc.).

      Getting access to a dongle or one account only is fine, since a lot of attacks are targeted at specific people. Most people will write their account name and pin on the dongle anyway.

      Losing access to the account is a big no no.
      Banks would rather have less security and compromised accounts than customers who can't access the system. To them, denial of service is worse than theft.

      The point is the poster made a very general "and make it secure" comment, without realizing how complicated that is. Indeed, I say it is impossible for something to be truly secure.

    40. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Better would be an ATM card reader with builtin PIN keypad (so the pin doesn't even reach the possibly compromised computer).

      One of my banks uses just that. The device does not connect to the PC, so there is no chance of compromise through the network. It uses the smartcard in the ATM card to sign transactions - consisting of a transaction token that the bank gives me and the value of the transaction - outputting a number which I have to enter to authorize that specific transaction.

      My other bank sends me an alphanumeric session token via SMS whenever I want to do more than just look at my statements in my online banking, and asks for random digits from that and a second alphanumeric code that is printed on a card they gave me when I signed up for internet banking.

    41. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jrumney · · Score: 1

      My bank requires it for every payment - even previously set up ones. It also requires it to be used when you're changing personal details (such as email address, or contact number) online.

    42. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Barclays ran trials 2 or 3 years ago where they sent different authentication devices out to small groups of customers. The outcome was that they chose offline card readers, which are now being rolled out at all UK banks as some sort of standard - expect to start seeing them used beyond online banking once all banks have finished deploying them.

    43. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Instead of the antiquated mag stripe cards, how about if your bank upgraded to ISO standard smart cards along with the rest of the world. Then not only do you get a card with a random number generator built in, but public key encryption as well.

    44. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by DaleCooper82 · · Score: 1
      IMHO best bank security & convenience ever is what my bank uses: theirs app in my mobile SIM card is receiving unique, generated code sent always when I am logging in.

      Anyone who would need to log in must:

      • know my number
      • know the pincode to the SIM card app
      • ..and have the mobile...

      I like this beacuse I do not need to carry any extra device/gadget and still it feels rather unbreakable. Needless to say you can disable the app with the bank (like credit card) in case you loose the mobile.

      --
      :: There is no light at the end of a tunnel. There is a tunnel after a tunnel : Thom Y. ::
    45. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I want to do anything unusual via my internet banking, like transfer money to an account that isn't mine and I've never transferred money to, or change my internet banking password or contact information, I have to re-confirm my identity by entering a one-time code that is SMS'd to my mobile phone.

      In other words, for someone to steal my money through internet banking, they must first have stolen my phone.

    46. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by xristoph · · Score: 1

      Which is why many banks (or at least the respectable ones ^-^) don't rely solely on username/pw combination. As pointed out above, German banks generally use OTPs (One-Time Pin), which they send you by mail in a non-see-through sealed envelope. That means one needs to use a new OTP for every transaction (even messages sent to the bank by this system). I've also seen card readers used for those users that want the extra convenience and security.
      I also have a bank account in Singapore now, and the bank I am using also went the extra mile: the login is Java-based (so the browser will have very limited, if any, access to information entered), and the PIN is not typed but entered using an onscreen keypad where the position of the numbers change every time. Additionally, I can only make a transaction, or see account details, after I correctly enter a 6-digit number sent to my mobile phone.
      On the other hand, for a lot of pages I couldn't care less if sb knew my password, e.g. some online radio which stores my music preferences. Which is why I use an unsafe and easy-to-remember pw for those. Or those websites that give you an account for the sake of giving you one - I remember specifically one site which allowed me to send 3 free sms per day to any operator...

    47. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      I'll assume you were talking about the private key for the dongle first, and then the private key for the bank. Otherwise it makes no sense.

      Yes, that's what I meant.

      In that case, it's a classic key-sharing problem.

      The key sharing is done when the bank sends the security device to the customer. Yes, somebody could intercept it, just as they could steal a credit card sent through the post.

      I agree that using a secure authentication device does not make the whole system secure.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    48. Re:Username/password combo for banks flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The hardware device would be implemented in such a way to make it impossible to copy the functionality of it without physical access to it."

      I disagree, because:
      1: "impossible to copy the functionality" brings on visions of large corporations, be they banks or IT, imposing gear which suits them, is unverifiable, exclusive to their organisation, and including only software platforms of which they approve, and all this for which you will bear the cost
      2: Security by obscurity does not work.
      A public/private key exchange is what's needed, coupled with service authentication. Keys can be stored on a mobile device which itself is protected with a pass key e.g a nine word phrase such as "after alan ate arlenes apple adam almost affected an alteration"
      toma

  11. Re:In Putin's Russia by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1, Funny

    No not funny, but it is scary how the people in the world's 2nd largest nuclear power appear to be so far beyond the normal rule of law.

    I must've missed something. When did the US slip to number 2?

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  12. Re:In Putin's Russia by solafide · · Score: 1

    Russia seems to be much larger than the United States?

  13. NoScript FTW by BearGrylls · · Score: 0

    If you use Firefox along with NoScript you are protected from this kind of attack and many others. I highly recommend Firefox users look into this.

    1. Re:NoScript FTW by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Does NoScript block JavaScript coming from other extensions? I highly doubt so.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:NoScript FTW by kalirion · · Score: 4, Funny

      Like you never "Temporarily allow myweirdpornvideos.com".

    3. Re:NoScript FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are also protected from effective use of most sites

    4. Re:NoScript FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You should register that domain name. It appears to be free at the moment.

    5. Re:NoScript FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No such domain. Thanks for getting my "hopes" up.
      Jerk.

    6. Re:NoScript FTW by snl2587 · · Score: 1

      Sure it does! Just don't allow "chrome:".

  14. new? by thtrgremlin · · Score: 1

    Yet another attempt at a classic type of malware designed to harvest web passwords has been detected...

    There, fixed it for ya.

    I don't think it is really fair to call it 'new' just because you havn't reported on this particular incident yet today. It is a little misleading. Glad I could help.

    --
    Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
  15. Re:In Putin's Russia by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

    Ah, physical size. Gotcha. ; )

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  16. Re:In Putin's Russia by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Pluguns control YOU!

  17. Re:Is it also made by Micro$oft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will it throw chairs at me?

    No, but removing Vista will.

  18. Is this what is causing the script to fail? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been having problems only with slashdot using firefox, on multiple machines with ubuntu. Is this the bug that is causing the script to hang?

  19. What if banks had to respond back with RSA code? by Jumperalex · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure this is what you're referring to but in either case your post got me thinking:

    Wouldn't an effective phishing defense (but not MITM) be for the RSA key fobs to have two numbers displayed instad of one, such that when you log in with the first number displayed on your fob, the bank replys with the 2nd number. If they don't match its likely a bogus site.

    I'm sure there are tehcnical issues to resolve to decouple the two keys to avoid a snooper / phisher from being able to guess the banks response etc etc. But in general, if we believe it is improved security to prove I am who I say I am, then could it work the other direction as well? I also realize that for the bank's part it isn't something they have but still something they know, but still at least it is something they know that changes such that a phisher won't know it [shrug]. I also get the feeling it might be more robust for the bank to provide a code first but the bank would still first need to know who you are (simple username I guess) to present the code spcific to your FOB, then you can feel confident that you are talking to your bank before you send out your code.

    And perhaps this would help with a MITM attack since they might have to get the bank's response right as well [shrug].

    --
    If you can't be good, be good at it!
  20. Wait, I thought... by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    Firefox was written so all addons had to come from addons.mozilla.org. How is such a drive by download even possible?

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Wait, I thought... by Thelasko · · Score: 2, Informative
      Here's the important part:

      is intended to be delivered onto a compromised computer system by other malware for subsequent download into Mozilla Firefox's Plugin folder. Once installed it gets to work every time Firefox is started.

      Apparently Firefox has protections so plugins can only be downloaded from addons.mozilla.org, but if they are downloaded by another program, and placed in the appropriate folder, Firefox will use them.

      There are two things to know about this:
      1) Another piece of malware has to be present on the machine for this to happen.
      2) There is a "feature" in Firefox that allows it to run any program in the plugin folder.

      Yeah, there's a bug in Firefox, but it's not the root cause.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    2. Re:Wait, I thought... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      This thing isn't installed via Firefox's add-on process, or even by Firefox at all. It's installed by other malware that's already infected your system. Not hard, just write a few files into Firefox's add-on directory and then edit Firefox's configuration files to register the new add-on by hand. Any competent programmer with some experience with XML processing could code that up in an afternoon.

    3. Re:Wait, I thought... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      I don't think this is normally installed in that manner. I'm suspecting this is installed via some Windows vulnerability.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    4. Re:Wait, I thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yes because everyone has time to learn how Firefox works and has time to fix this shit on their own.

    5. Re:Wait, I thought... by Ornedan · · Score: 1

      Hopefully you don't consider the "run any program in the plugin directory" part to be the bug. Seeing as if you require the plugin to be registered in some plugin DB before it's run, the inserting malware will just alter the DB so that the inserted plugin is registered. It'll still be exactly as vulnerable, but you've got added complexity to maintain.

    6. Re:Wait, I thought... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      What's fixing it got to do with anything? We're talking about creating the trojan. Any competent coder, after taking the time to learn how Firefox works, could write the exploit, and it would only take one such person to do so.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    7. Re:Wait, I thought... by BZ · · Score: 1

      Add-ons (extensions) have to come from a site that's trusted.

      By default the only trusted site for that purpose is addons.mozilla.org. Any attempt to install an add-on from another site will show an infobar explaining that the site is asking to install software on your computer and asking whether you trust them to do this. If you say yes, and click the button _again_, you will be prompted (dialog, not infobar, with a timer so you can't click OK for at least 5 seconds after the dialog appears) whether to install the add-on.

      That said, installing an add-on just means putting it in a particular place on disk. So if something else can write to your disk, it can install add-ons. Of course it could also overwrite the Firefox binary with a custom-compiled one that has a Trojan built in, so once something is writing to your disk you just lose.

  21. Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would think it is FAR easier to write malware for Firefox than IE since Firefox has a huge community of mod-installers.

    Take that Firefox fanboys, now shut the hell up and realize you're vulnerable too.

    "but it's open source - that means its secure"

    1. Re:Finally... by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 1

      That's what you get for thinking.

      Wait a minute... Is that you Bill? Mr. Gates, you're retired now... go fishing or something, ya bastard.

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
  22. Attack vector. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    Users could be infected with the Trojan either from a drive-by download, which can infect a PC by exploiting a vulnerability in a browser, or by being duped into downloading it, Canja said.

    It is not clear whether Firefox actually has a vulnerability that allows such a drive by downloads, or if IE or other browsers with a vulnerability might allow a drive by download that attacks FireFox. Anyway if the user downloads bits from the net and executes it voluntarily, there is nothing one can do to protect such an activity.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  23. Where is the "add-ons" you speak of? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is an "add-ons" folder? I don't see one if my Firefox directory. You mean the extensions folder? Or the plugins folder? Or modules folder?

    1. Re:Where is the "add-ons" you speak of? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Apparently several files get placed in the %programfiles%\Mozilla Firefox\plugins folder.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  24. i've said this many times by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and i've always been derided as a microsoft fanboy. when i think its just common sense:

    the amount of hacks and viruses and malware on an os/ browser has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than marketshare

    you can try to make something as secure as possible, but if the incentive is high, hackers can always pay attention to security way more than you do, and find holes you did not anticipate, no matte rhow subtle

    if something is full of security holes, it won't be hacked, if its market share is tiny

    meanwhile if something is ironclad, it will still be hacked, if its maker share is huge. the incentive to find holes is so high, the most esoteric avenues of investigation are explored

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:i've said this many times by drunkennewfiemidget · · Score: 1

      What you're failing to notice, however, is that the proliferation of these virii and trojans would be slowed by the fact that the majority of bugs and spyware and crap out there now is obviously written by people without much talent. Actually make it difficult for them to break into things, and you certainly won't see the issue eradicated, but you will see it go down. Significantly.

    2. Re:i've said this many times by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2

      Virii isnt a word.

      Secondly, the GP is right, its all about marketshare. Look at all the rooted linux servers out there. Look at all the malware for windows. At the end of the day any computer controlled by someone with admin rights and who isnt paranoid about security is a risk.

    3. Re:i've said this many times by squallbsr · · Score: 1

      Except that the drive-by-downloads are using Windows flaws and other malware vectors to install the trojan into Firefox's plugin directory. Firefox isn't being subverted into installing the malware, malware is doing the deed.

      Also, you cannot protect users against themselves, so malware will always be present and targeting market share. The difference is being able to sneak something into an OS without the user doing anything - this is Microsoft's share of the problem and why a lot of blame and flame goes against Windows.

      --
      Sleep: A completely inadequate substitution for Caffeine.
    4. Re:i've said this many times by Sounder40 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The reason Windows is targeted is because it's model of sharing everything was so wide open to so many exploits. And don't forget the numerous buffer-overflow vulnerabilities. Top that off with the fact that it is so pervasive, and you have the deadly combination we have now.

      Linux/Unix, on the other hand, was written with clear lines of delineation between the user and kernel spaces. And attention was paid to avoid buffer overflow vulnerabilities.

      Not saying that there aren't exploits available in Linux and Unix... There are. It's just designed from the ground up to be more secure than Windows.

      So part of what you said is correct: The pervasiveness of Windows is a major reason why it is targeted. But you can't avoid the poor security design of Windows as a cause as well.

      --
      A clever person solves a problem, A wise person avoids it. -Einstein
    5. Re:i've said this many times by sdkit · · Score: 1

      the amount of hacks and viruses and malware on an os/ browser has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than marketshare

      Marketshare is clearly a factor but, like all things, it's much more likely to be a combination of factors. Ease of attack surely comes into the equation somewhere.

    6. Re:i've said this many times by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Sorry to sound pedantic, but in case you weren't aware, the plural of "virus" is actually "viruses":

      http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/plural-of-virus.html
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_of_virus

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    7. Re:i've said this many times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are kidding, right? If you aren't, you obviously know NOTHING about software architecture.

    8. Re:i've said this many times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should stop talking about Windows as if we're still using Windows 95. It's getting really tired.

    9. Re:i've said this many times by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > the amount of hacks and viruses and malware on an os/ browser
      > has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than marketshare

      This isn't strictly true. Marketshare is very *relevant*, of course, but it's not the only factor.

      There were *way* more viruses for the classic MacOS than there are for OS X, even though the market share of the new version is, if anything, higher. Perhaps the best counterexample is in web server software, where Apache has always had the lion's share of the market while IIS has always had the lion's share of the exploits.

      But yes, marketshare *is* relevant, and the most popular software in any given category definitely tends to have the worst security track record, all else being equal. Good examples here include Sendmail, BIND, MS Windows, and IE. As noted above, there are counterexamples, but they are the exceptions, not the rule.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    10. Re:i've said this many times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clueless ^^^

    11. Re:i've said this many times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is not that a browser can be hacked. The point is what can you do about it. With Firefox you can do something about it, or have it done for you by others. You're not dependent on Mozilla. That can't be said for the browser with most market share, which owners will fix according to their perceived needs.

    12. Re:i've said this many times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the amount of hacks and viruses and malware on an os/ browser has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than marketshare"
                False! Firefox has had a high and rapidly increasing marketshare, with a relatively low increase in malware. IE, on the other hand, still has tons of malware for it despite a market share decrease. The IE7 and IE8 have fewer exploits (despite high marketshare...) due to having better security.

      "you can try to make something as secure as possible, but if the incentive is high, hackers can always pay attention to security way more than you do, and find holes you did not anticipate, no matte rhow subtle"
                Yes, perhaps. But the more difficult it is, the more this raises the bar, making the number of exploits much lower. There's far fewer Linux and Firefox exploits than Windows and IE -- not because of marketshare but because it's harder to do.

      "if something is full of security holes, it won't be hacked, if its market share is tiny

      meanwhile if something is ironclad, it will still be hacked, if its maker share is huge. the incentive to find holes is so high, the most esoteric avenues of investigation are explored"
                Not true either. look on exploit sites, there's TONS of exploits for software that is virtually unused. On the other end of the spectrum you have plenty of software that is widely deployed, where people have simply not found exploits.

  25. that's it... by xiao_haozi · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's it....I'm switching to IE!

  26. Nothing new here by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    According to the description, you have to get infected with some other malware first which would then stuff this thing into Firefox's folders and hook it in by manipulating the configuration. So my first thought is that the primary risk is (yet again) Windows users. They're the ones who'll be the targets of the initial malware. Even if you're a Windows user, if you aren't already having a problem with being regularly infected by malware you aren't at great risk. And if you are currently being regularly infected with malware, one more probably isn't your biggest problem. So a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing we didn't already know and presenting no risk we haven't had for years.

    1. Re:Nothing new here by Burz · · Score: 1

      ...or you have to press the "Install" button in the add-on dialog while you're at an untrusted site.

      The article is a bit vague, but ultimately this is just a Trojan.

  27. To the smart people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone have an actual link to something on how to see if you are infected and how to correct it????

    1. Re:To the smart people... by Scuff · · Score: 2, Informative

      you can detect it by looking for the following 2 files: "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\plugins\npbasic.dll" "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\chrome\chrome\content\browser.js" Theoretically closing Firefox and deleting those might remove it. The recommendations are to run anti-virus software, which is a good idea since the rest of the article indicates this is usually added to already compromised machines. Locations of the files may vary by OS, but should still be in Firefox plugins and chrome theme.

  28. Mod parent up please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just keep popping up a dialogue box (with no way to stop it or switch to another tab) until the user gives in and says yes.

    So is that the "drive-by download" method mentioned in the article? If so, the means to protect yourself are:

    When it happens, hit ctl-alt-delete to get your task manager up, find firefox, and kill that task. If that doesn't work, restart your computer. Either way, don't go to that site again.

    These instructions aren't great, of course, but they will work.

  29. Re:In Putin's Russia by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Russia seems to be the largest country in the world.

  30. Any Platform? by tedhiltonhead · · Score: 1

    Would this attack style apply to any Firefox platform - Linux, Mac, Windows? As I understand it, FF plugins are mostly written in Javascript. Even on more secure platforms like Mac and Linux, each user has access to his own FF plugins directory, so if any malicious code were to be executed as him, it could presumably write this "plugin" into that user's FF settings directory.

    1. Re:Any Platform? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I initially supposed it would be cross-platform, but now it looks like they're using a .dll, which would make it Windows-only I suppose. Go figure. Seems like it'd be easy enough to write a cross-platform version that was installed as a normal browser add-on, really... you'd just have to get the user to install it, and there are enough clueless people out there that it shouldn't be that hard to do it.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  31. FireFox matters. by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not sure whether this should be considered a compliment, but to me it indicates that FF matters. It has enough market share for criminals to target.

    Unfortunately not many details on this exploit: is it really an exploit in FF (for the drive-by download)? Or is it more like a trojan (for the download duping)?

  32. Re:In Putin's Russia by TheCycoONE · · Score: 1

    Can't be physical size, Canada's a nuclear power and bigger than the US as well.

  33. Only if you want to be in the IT business by joeflies · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem with USB keys is that you have to install a client to handle the PKCS #11 with the browser. No bank wants to get in the business of telling customers to install software (and all the help desk problems that come with it).

    OTP tokens have been the preferred method for consumer strong authentication, but only consumers in Europe have seem to taken to them. I don't really see people lining up to get the paypal OTP token.

    1. Re:Only if you want to be in the IT business by Mex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every bank in Mexico uses OTP authentication with a small physical device that generates a random key.

      When will the US catch up with the rest of the world in terms of technology? ;)

    2. Re:Only if you want to be in the IT business by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      For about 20(!) years my bank in The Netherlands uses this system of one-time tokens. In the beginning they sent you a simple paper list (they still do that on request), nowadays the standard is to send a one-time code (probably even time limited, not sure about that part as I don't use it at the moment) by SMS to your mobile. When the system was implemented mobile phones weren't used very much yet.

      It's nothing new. It's safe, really, even with a simple paper list. I still don't understand why the USA and my current homeland Hong Kong don't have something like that.

  34. How does this install? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

    That is the important part. I am betting it doesn't happen through any flaw in Firefox (sounds like maybe a downloadable executable which looks for and then infects Firefox), but the article doesn't say.

  35. Actually Blizzard got this right by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    You register an authenticator with your account and every time you go to log on you have to key in the number the authenticator shows you.

    Much easier than anything needing to be plug in and as such it can work with any device that could access the login page.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  36. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by dhasenan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Linux has 0.8% market share!

    Though that's counting me and my beard of unusual size, so take it as you wish.

  37. malware targets Windows .. by rs232 · · Score: 3, Informative

    "This latest e-threat - called Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.A - is intended to be delivered onto a compromised computer system by other malware"

    SYMPTOMS: Presence of the: "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\plugins\npbasic.dll"

    TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION: It drops an executable file (which is a Firefox 3 plugin)

    Does that mean it's Windows only ?

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  38. Cool, I'm safe. :) by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    Why does anyone still do banking via PIN/TAN or normal passwords? My chip-card reader did cost 30 and has a numeric keypad on it. I never have to input any banking data via anything other than that device, which goes straight to the Java applet via a public key encryption system, and then to the bank via FinTS.

    I hope I can upgrade to a class 3 or 4 reader soon.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:Cool, I'm safe. :) by tenco · · Score: 1

      My bank uses numbered TANs (sent by snail-mail) and asks for a TAN (on transaction) via number in a captcha. I don't see what's so bad about that method.

  39. Fightback? by Bazman · · Score: 2

    Can we now blitz the collecting server with millions of bogus account records? Enough to make it not worthwhile trying them to find the good ones?

    1. Re:Fightback? by Old+Grey+Beard · · Score: 1
      ... and why do they not publish the full server name? Couldn't I then use my hosts file to redirect that name to 127.0.0.1? And for numeric IP addressing couldn't I set up my ARP cache appropriately?

      Just wondering; I'm no net wizard and am sure there's a good reason we're not being told the whole story. Feel free to "correct"...

      --
      "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it."
      - H. L. Mencken
  40. SITE-MODS: Please edit Subject Line -- W32 only by gavron · · Score: 3, Informative

    It doesn't "target Firefox", it targets "Firefox on Windows 32 systems" This does not affect Linux, Mac, or other systems. Ehud

  41. Dumb question by Spyder · · Score: 1

    Can this thing install if you have already loaded Greasemonkey?

    --
    Spyder
  42. Re: market share .. by rs232 · · Score: 1

    "the amount of hacks and viruses and malware on an os/ browser has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than marketshare"

    They why go to the trouble of writing one for a browser with such a low market share. I mean how many bank accounts are accessed under Firefox ?

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  43. Re:malware targets Windows .. by Simon+(S2) · · Score: 1

    Yes.

    --
    I just don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die.
  44. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by russlar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Linux has 0.8% market share!

    Though that's counting me and my beard of unusual size, so take it as you wish.

    Stallman, is that you?

    --
    Anybody want my mod points?
  45. Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by Tomsk70 · · Score: 0

    Last time I mentioned FF's woefully unprotected password list, I got marked down as a troll (cheers, fanboy moderators).

    And yet here we are, with an exploit - *so what* if it can only run on a compromised machine, us geeks will catch-and-kill it but the chairman of your company won't when he installs FF at home 'because his son said it's the best'.

    It's only gonna get worse - and once everyone's browsers have the same risk level, we can concentrate on developing for/ supporting multiple-browser installs and everything that entails while the format war plays out.

    Deja Vu, anyone?

    1. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now?

      No, you can't. The trojan doesn't attack the password list file, it scrapes the login credentials from forms of sites when you visit them.

      Anyway, are you aware of any way of obtaining username/password information from the "woefully unprotected" password list? I'm not saying a way doesn't exist, but I don't know of any.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by Tomsk70 · · Score: 0

      Right then - I'm sure there won't be any more exploits for the amazingly-secure FF.

      'I told you so' is about how browsers are hacked based on their popularity, and so once FF becomes truly popular, or chrome, or insert-your-favourite-browser-here, we'll not only have to support 5 browsers on every machine (due to the incompatibilities for which I gave examples in my previous post), but we'll have to work through another format war (again, example sites given previously).

      But let's pretend for a minute that FF is impenetrable. Steal someone's laptop. Lophtcrack your way through their logon password (if you can't guess it from their Facebook account, or similar). Open up FF. Two clicks, there you go - all the passwords in English. I've now visited over 50 machines running FF, and none of them have password-protected the password list. Not one.

      See, I'm not interested in which OS/ Browser is technically the best. That's Linux - but no one uses it as a desktop (5% market share, and that's including servers). I'm more interested in what everyone is using, and rightly or wrongly, that's IE. FF might be fine for your bedroom, but they've only just included Group Policy controls in v.3, for heavens' sake. And we also know that MS wil simply steal the nicest bits and include them in IE8/9/etc - and they won't pester you to install extra software that you don't need (but has earned them extra revenue) - such as a needless toolbar, star office, Safari, etc. etc.

      What galls the most is that we've all been through this nonsense before, and everyone appears to be pretending that it's not going to happen again. It's along the lines of mac users still pretending that their system is 'superior', when that race was over 15 years ago - they account for less than 1 in 10 users - but hey, everyone else is stupid, right? (Oh, I forgot, 'they look so cool'). Call MS what you like, but they didn't have to buy Vista for £270 million off of their own chairman that they'd sacked.

    3. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That's a valid concern. I'm not worried about my desktop machine being stolen, but my copy of FF Portable on a flash drive does have a master password. Like I said, I'm still not sure whether it's possible to crack the cold physical files if you can get your hands on them, but since I don't let anyone else on my computer, I'm not worried about them getting into my passwords in a "hot" Firefox session.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    4. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by Tomsk70 · · Score: 0

      Indeed - if you're a geek (which we both are) you'll know about securing files, exposure and the like. CEO's (for example) aren't, but they'll still blame us when their bank accounts are emptied - you know the drill 'this is on my private machine that you've never even seen, but it's still all your fault'. But with more swearing.

      It's the same as quantum-encryption being ultra-secure, but falling down due to the human factor making it leaky.

      And anyway, it won't be long before someone *does* write an exploit that pulls out the passwords from a live session - if they're displayed, in english, on the screen, they're vulnerable - otherwise MS would have no qualms about displaying all the Windows domain passwords in English too - but as I pointed out, why bother writing code when you can simply steal the laptop?

      Look at the scoring for our conversation. I make valid, argueable points, but get none from the moderators. I was having arguements about MS Domains vs. Novell like this 15 years ago, but I'd get marked down because 'Everyone knows that Novell is the best'. And yet here we are, nothing changes, clique-y mungous. Maybe I was under the false impression that Slashdot deals with the real world, as opposed to 'my BBC is better than your Commodore 64' discussions....

    5. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Indeed - if you're a geek (which we both are) you'll know about securing files, exposure and the like.

      Wait... you mean letting Limewire share my "My Documents" folder was a bad idea? and my "Program Files"? ;)

      And anyway, it won't be long before someone *does* write an exploit that pulls out the passwords from a live session - if they're displayed, in english, on the screen, they're vulnerable

      That would be a pretty ineffective attack vector, because geeks wouldn't be likely to get infected, and non-geeks generally don't even know it's possible to view the passwords...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    6. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by Tomsk70 · · Score: 0

      Hahahahaaa yup been there with limewire...or how about 'So what's wrong with running itunes against my server-based home folder? What do you mean, the server's run out of space?' :-)

      You're right, geeks who know what they're doing shouldn't worry (for now) - the *really* dangerous users are the ones who *think* they're geeks (and will install Windows/ FF/ Limewire assuming it's secure-by-default, etc. etc)

      Actually I say geeks shouldn't worry...is there a generally accepted AV product that will catch anything? No, it's down to personal preference out of the top 5. So better hope your sites are using the one that *does* stop the aforementioned exploits when they start appearing... ...I can still remember the MS AV product for DOS - it only stopped the top 30% or 'most popular' viruses. How *very* useful!

    7. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      The default of FF is afaik to not password-protect the password list. This is an option that has to be switched on manually, hidden in the preferences somewhere. I don't remember having ever got the question of FF to password-protect this list, not even on a first use (i.e. storing the first password in the list).

    8. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      True, but I've never been able to get the plaintext usernames/passwords out of my password list file even though I didn't set a master password. It stank when I had to reinstall Firefox and I lost all my saved login information... even though I made a backup of my old profile before I trashed it, I couldn't decrypt the usernames/passwords for the saved logins.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    9. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      And yet here we are, with an exploit - *so what* if it can only run on a compromised machine, us geeks will catch-and-kill it but the chairman of your company won't when he installs FF at home 'because his son said it's the best'.

      What do you mean, "so what if it can only run on a compromised machine"?!

      Once your machine is compromised by malware, you're FUCKED and your browser's security doesn't enter into it -- unless your browser was the vector by which your machine got compromised which is not the case here. The malware will log your keys, or it will load the browser itself and peek at the memory containing the unencrypted passwords that must at some point exist, and that's it. Browser security can't prevent this; only a platform like Trusted Computing can. FF is better because it is less of a vector for external attacks, not because it can prevent local exploitation when the system it is running on is compromised.

      So go ahead and put on your "I told you so" shirt, just make sure to put the parenthetical (something obvious and pointless) between "you" and "so".

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    10. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by Tomsk70 · · Score: 0

      I mean 'so what' because it's irrelevant. Either malware will let someone in, or the browser will be attacked directly, or (if you're running default FF) someone can just walk up to your machine and write them down. So that's THREE vectors for attack instead of two. If you're running default FF. But hey, the browser is more secure, right?

      I was generally pointing out (since you're concentrating on a single line of my post rather than dealing with the main issue) that once you're supporting end-users who *aren't* spending their time on slashdot pretending there's no format/ browser war happening for a second time, they're going to get attacked - after which they will come banging on your door because 'you said this was more secure'. We're dealing with what will actually happen here, not what's fair.

      And what's *not* fair is that FF is so INSECURE, by default, even though they're on version three - that two clicks will show you someone's passwords in English. No need for infection, malware, key loggers or anything - and yet because it's been taken up by the geeks first, everyone's shouting about how wonderful it is without a) examining the real-world risks and b) taking into account that MS are going to simply steal all the best bits for the next IE anyway - so we're left with multiple browsers and multiple web page formats, all because folks still want to pretend there's actually a choice (seen any Banks running star office recently?). You could liken it to learning a manual-gearbox car, then giving it to an automatic-gear car driver, and wondering why they keep coming unstuck..

      And anyway, are you seriously suggesting there aren't going to be *any* direct attacks on FF, ever, job done, we can all go home? Rii-ight. Just like no-one bothers attacking OS 10.x leaving the mac users to pretend that they don't get attacked as much because their OS is 'superior' (as opposed to just unpopular).

      'I told you so' last time. If you don't want to listen, then you won't mind doing all the up and coming support. Ah, no, actually that'll be me.

    11. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      In Firefox 2.0.18 (Mac OS-X):

      Go to Preferences, tab Security, click the Show Passwords button for a list of saved logins, and in that window again Show Passwords, and one more click to confirm.

      VoilÃ, all your saved passwords, all in plain text.

      The Security tab is also where you can set your master password, by the way. I assume setting this password will also encrypt your saved passwords, not sure as I have never tried it.

    12. Re:Can I put on my 'told you so' t-shirt now? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Go to Preferences, tab Security, click the Show Passwords button for a list of saved logins, and in that window again Show Passwords, and one more click to confirm.

      Yeah, that works fine — unless you want to recover passwords from a backed-up profile after you've had to reinstall Firefox. The password file is encrypted anyway, even without a master password set. Look for yourself... the password file is called %userprofile%\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\*\signons*.txt.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  46. Fix by Frankie70 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can download a fix for it here.

    1. Re:Fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow.... ie has how many holes? Sounds like this is a Windows only malware. Imagine that! The link you need is:

      http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download

    2. Re:Fix by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      I tried to download it, but Ubuntu doesn't seem to be on the list of supported operating systems.

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  47. Wow, the summary is correct. by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is not an exploit, this is a payload like a rootkit that targets Firefox... after your computer has already been compromised.

    I would be surprised if there ISN'T a similar payload targeting IE delivered by the same malware.

    1. Re:Wow, the summary is correct. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Heck, with root access I don't know why they don't just install a packet sniffer that pulls usernames and passwords out of POST requests to known banking institutions.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:Wow, the summary is correct. by argent · · Score: 1

      SSL?

    3. Re:Wow, the summary is correct. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I'd forgotten that...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  48. this is just stupid by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    "the majority of bugs and spyware and crap out there now is obviously written by people without much talent"

    i'm not saying the guys doing this are good, or deserve anything but jailtime/ fine/ etc

    but they certainly are not stupid

    meanwhile, by thinking they are stupid, you are displaying an unhealthy amount of arrogance and hubris

    do you know what it takes to find a hole in a system and exploit it?

    yu have to surpass the minds of those who have already given the area a lot of thought

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:this is just stupid by drunkennewfiemidget · · Score: 1

      Arrogance and hubris? Absolutely not. The fact of the matter remains none of the people writing these things have any idea how they're doing it either. They're using code provided to them or exemplified to them by other people and then adding their nonsense to it. Its the whole reason so much of this stuff is so easily detected. Yes they are stupid people. Stupid and immoral. We're (the world in general) unbelievably lucky at this point that these trojans aren't written by people with a significant amount of skill because they'd be a whole lot harder to find/fix/repair.

  49. Going back to IE by GunDawg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who needs this headache; not me. I'm going back to IE.

    As for the people who write these programs, they need to be PUT TO DEATH.

    Seriously, if you want to steal from me, come to my house. I promise to make it a fair fight. ;)

  50. Finally, better signature management on add-ons ?? by KWTm · · Score: 1

    Mozilla needs your permission to install plugins from unverified sources.

    But since windows standard practice is to click on everything that has an OK on it, I think it doesn't matter.

    Agree. Can we get people to take signature verification more seriously now? There have been a number of Firefox extensions, including some well-known, well-used ones, that are unsigned. (I can't remember if Flashblock, Adblock and NoScript are among them.) Is it a big hassle to sign the extensions? (This is not a rhetorical question; I really would like to know.)

    You know how Kaminsky found this glaring bug in the DNS system that people have been using for ages, and people said, "What!? How could such a huge flaw go for so long with no one saying anything?" Well, right here we have a glaring flaw in the Firefox extension system. Firefox is a vector for extension malware. I'm saying it now.

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
  51. Possibly dumb question by Doctor+Jimmy · · Score: 1

    TFA says that on Windows it registers itself as Greasemonkey. What does it register itself as on OS X/Linux? And what if Greasemonkey is already installed?

  52. Gah... by msimm · · Score: 3, Informative

    Read.article. Most of your 'insightful' comment applies to Windows and piggy-backing on a Windows exploit. The other OS's you mention (ie: not Windows) would be exploited by ignoring the FF warning dialog about installing untrusted add-ons and installing it anyway (not so much an exploit).

    That said, if you're done being cheeky: software is complicated. Bugs are a simple reality and inevitably lead to some kind of exploitability. But Linux and Mac (along with FF and numerous other open tools) get a bit of credit for implementing basic controls (accounts with privilege separation in the OS's) and responding quickly and proactively.

    Windows is only now trying it, but their implementation is so cumbersome it's defeating it's own purpose.

    Any Vista user out there that haven't already tried it there are several open source sudo for Windows implementations that make using non-privileged accounts more viable. I think I use Sudowin which seemed to work the best for me, but I'm not on my home computer.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:Gah... by Madball · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely right about Windows and software complexity. I also understand that this particular issue requires a prior compromise. The statement was more about the rose-tinted glasses that some have (those glasses could be tinted to favor anything, Windows, Linux, Apple, Porsches). It tends to blind one to real substantial improvements or criticisms (we won't go into those but there are plenty to be made for all named above).

    2. Re:Gah... by kerohazel · · Score: 1

      What about the "run as administrator" option when you right-click on a program? I assumed (hopefully correctly!) that it was Vista's sudo equivalent.

      Though of course, it has the drawback of not being able to right-click on a file and run its associated program as an admin - only the programs (and links) themselves have the option.

      --
      Skype is too convoluted... Now I'm reverse-engineering the Kyoto Protocol.
  53. Would have been nice by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if they had identified the server that it tried to contact, either by hostname or IP address, so that those with the capability to do so, could block connectivity to it from their network(s) and/or customers. ISP's could add a simple ACL to a router, home users might put a 127.0.0.1 entry in /etc/hosts, etc.

    Of course one thing they completely left out was if this 'plugin' ran only on Windows Firefox or if other platforms were susceptible as well.

    And quite frankly, if that host was providing some legitimate service that doing this ended up blocking, well, oh fucking well. Keep the thieves off your network and you can avoid that type of problem.

    Another option of course, (for individuals and private/company networks, but probably not so for commercial ISP's) would be to just null-route the entirety of Russia (using blackholes.us), and then selective override individual address spaces as and if needed.

  54. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by DavidAlanChapman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but that 0.5% has crazy phat loot from not being ripped off by the windows only malware

  55. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by Whalou · · Score: 5, Funny

    Linux has 0.8% market share!

    Though that's counting me and my beard of unusual size, so take it as you wish.

    Stallman, is that you?

    No, he would have said GNU/Linux.

    --
    English is not this .sig mother tongue...
  56. Re:In Putin's Russia by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    Wow, a whole slew of other people have replied and still nobody else figured out that the 2nd largest nuclear power, whose people appear to be so far beyond the normal rule of law, refers to Russia.

    Recall that the rogue server that's collecting the login credentials is located in Russia...

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  57. Re:malware targets Windows .. by gabrieltss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Oh good I'm safe then, it's firefox 3 plugin - won't work in my Firefox 1.5.x. Another good reason not to upgrade - securtiy is worse in the new version.

    --
    The Truth is a Virus!!!
  58. Probably Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trying hard to get that extra market share?

  59. This is a WINDOWS exploit, how hard is that to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No where in the article summary nor the article does it even mention this until you go to the other link about where it is installed, obviously windows.

    $*((&^&& once again the bait and switch!

    I really wish dumbass mozilla would just give a software product they distribute that runs on operating systems other than windows a different name and be done with it. A corvette is NOT a camaro even though chevy builds both and they have a similar engine and transmission, but they are different and have different names. This is common throughout industry to seperate products even within the same class, except with software! This is crazy! Crazy and lazy, how hard is it to just pick a different damn name?

        This is getting old.

      They are not the same products, and they run on different operating systems. They are "similar" products but not the same, they should have a different name up front (and a huge airgap between windows devs and every one else, damn windows is the premier cootie vector).

        Actually what would be even better, what has been needed for a long time now, is a new from scratch web browser (not from mozilla) that is designed and developed for open source operating systems by license fine detail *only*, and let Microsoft and their stealth client company SCO, err I mean Mozilla deal with Windows software and those bugs and sploits.

  60. Mozilla? by missjackie · · Score: 0

    The messed up thing is that Greasemonkey is being offered through Mozilla as an add-on. Would this version be infected as well? http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748

    1. Re:Mozilla? by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The malware calls itself "Greasemonkey" to avoid detection, but it's completely unrelated to the real Greasemonkey add-on.

      Same as all the "spyware removal" or "antivirus" tools that are really adware/trojans... it's just to get it on your machine and prevent you from trying to delete it...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  61. Re: market share .. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    Actually, I'd guess that the probability of finding people who do online banking is probably higher among the geek community.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  62. I guess I'm safe then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should be safe then. My financial websites never worked properly with Firefox. I wish that were a joke :-/

  63. Where can we get a list of the banks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SO Paypal is one...Paypal offers, for $5.00 a token that would defeat this kind of attack. Of course all banks should offer such a service. However - it would be nice to know how we can get detailed info on the exact banks that are targeted by this.

  64. what about us loosers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ya know, like "being loose".

    1. Re:what about us loosers? by Fieryphoenix · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ahem, I do indubitably believe that in that case it is referred to as the "more loose" in point of fact, quite, yes, what what.

  65. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

    GNU is the other 99.2%.

    NOTE: I'm enjoying the general idea of these jokes; not the fact that some of them are targetting Stallman, who is a great guy and a visionary, that most of us wouldn't be doing what we're doing without.

  66. Two-factor auth is trivial on modern browsers by Khopesh · · Score: 1

    A certificate-based login (which you can play with at www.cacert.org) would solve this problem. When you initially set it up with your bank, they should require gobs of information proving your identity (full card number, CCV, address, social security number, and last ATM transaction data should suffice), and then they'll let you generate a key for your browser. This easily qualifies as "something you have" for two-factor authentication without needing anything silly like a USB key that would cost the bank money on a per-key basis in time and resources. (Footnote: This isn't as well documented as it should be; your best bet is to play with cacert.org's free implementation. There's tidbits of it in Wikipedia's TLS article, and cacert's wiki has a decent Client Certs page that says a little more.)

    After that, you'll need that key plus the tools already employed. Most banks these days already have interesting ways to prove their own identity to you (they supply you with an image and some secret text you agreed upon earlier), then they have some clever input mechanism that tries to bypass keyloggers and javascript hacks.

    Also recall that banks are VERY good about locking your account; a properly protected four-digit number is actually secure enough if you're only allowed two failed logins per day (regardless of source) since the code would take up to 5000 days (13+ years) to crack, and I'm sure there are further safeguards for that kind of case.

    To banking software firms: I would immediately switch* to an online bank that performs this configuration. So would others. Don't forget: people like me are consulted regularly by family and social networks for advice about this very topic. (* Assuming the bank is FDIC/NCUA-insured, otherwise well-received and regarded, and fully pays for a few ATM usage fees each month).

    --
    Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
  67. Re:known troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LMFAO! Shut the fuck up twitter... you are the sockpuppet and you're pissed off at everyone else for calling you one. In fact, the link for Hairyfeet who you call a sockpuppet is a link to YOUR repsonse to him...

    Seriously... how old are you? 15? Grow the fuck up already

  68. Re:In Putin's Russia by mrdoogee · · Score: 1

    China is also nuclear and bigger than the US. Certainly population wise, and the physical size is arguably bigger.

  69. virii should be a word by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. it just sounds cool
    2. sometimes in scrabble, you need to get rid of a lot of Is

    language isn't a top down authoritarian function, its trickle up from the bottom

    therefore, here in this thread, based on my authority of having none at all, i hereby announce "virii" to be a valid word in the english language

    use it profusely, use it constantly, use it anywhere

    and in such a way, make it a valid word

    motion has passed

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:virii should be a word by dzfoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      >> 1. it just sounds cool

      True, it sounds more "technical" than the more mundane "viruses". But I also believe in using proper words.

      >> language isn't a top down authoritarian function, its trickle up from the bottom

      Yeah, I only hear that from people who can't spell. (just kidding!)

              Cheers!
              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    2. Re:virii should be a word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this usage will spread like a singular instance of something in a group of virii.

      w00t, i like it already!

  70. LIST OF BANKS; seems to be windoze-only by rickst29 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.B" is definitely only effective in Windows, because it installs and executes these files: "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\plugins\npbasic.dll" "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\chrome\chrome\content\browser.js" browser.js calls the The dll file, which can't run in Linux, etc. unless you're running a WINDOZE Firefox via crossover (which would be insanely stupid). Also, since it's installed into the program directory (rather than the user's profile), VISTA will almost certainly make you click for "administrator confirmation" before writing the files. (I don't know for sure, because I don't have VISTA.) - - - - - When I enter the URL for http://www.bitdefender.com/VIRUS-1000451-en--Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.A.html#, the page content is identical the version for "Trojan.PWS.CHromeInject.B" (even the given name is "Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.B", they even over-wrote the ChromeInject.A page by accident or, ChromeInject.A isn't spreading in the wild AND has nearly identical characteristcs, perhaps differing only in file sizes.) BitDefender provides the following list of banks their page for this version, http://www.bitdefender.com/VIRUS-1000451-en--Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.B.html: It filters the URLs within the Mozilla Firefox browser and whenever encounter the following addresses opened in the Firefox browser it captures the login credentials. akbank.com caixasabadell.net credem.it areasegura.banif.es banca.cajaen.es openbank.es poste.it banesto.es carnet.cajarioja.es gruposantander.es intelvia.cajamurcia.es net.kutxa.net bancopastor.es bancamarch.es caixamanlleu.es elmonte.es ibercajadirecto.com bancopopular.es bancogallego.es bancajaproximaempresas.com caixa*.es caja*.es ccm.es bancoherrero.com bankoa.es bbvanetoffice.com bgnetplus.com bv-i.bancodevalencia.es clavenet.net fibancmediolanum.es sabadellatlantico.com arquia.es banking.*.de westpac.com.au adelaidebank.com.au pncs.com.au nationet.com online.hbs.net.au www.qccu.com.au boq.com.au banksa.com anz.com suncorpmetway.com.au quiubi.it cariparma.it bancaintesa.it popso.it fmbcc.bcc.it secservizi.it bancamediolanum.it csebanking.it fineco.it gbw2.it gruppocarige.it in-biz.it isideonline.it iwbank.it bancaeuro.it bancagenerali.it bcp.it unibanking.it uno-e.com unipolbanca.it carifvg.com cariparo.it carisbo.it islamic-bank.com banking.first-direct.com natwestibanking.com itibank.co.uk co-operativebank.co.uk lloydstsb.co.uk mybankoffshore.alil.co.im abbeynational.co.uk mybusinessbank.co.uk barclays.com online.co.uk my.if.com anbusiness.com hsbc.co anbusiness.com co-operativebankonline.co.uk halifax-online.co.uk ibank.cahoot.com smile.co.uk caterallenonline.co.uk tdcanadatrust.com schwab.com wachovia.com bankofamerica kfhonline.com wamu.com wellsfargo.com procreditbank.bg chase.com 53.com citizensbankonline.com e-gold.com paypal.com usbank.com suntrust.com banquepopulaire.fr onlinebanking.nationalcity.com

  71. Re:LIST OF BANKS by rickst29 · · Score: 1

    sorry about the formatting, I should have used preview! Per above, it definitely is Windows-only.
    Just go to the URL, http://www.bitdefender.com/VIRUS-1000451-en--Trojan.PWS.ChromeInject.B.html

  72. You've been wrong many times by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Informative

    You might think it's common sense that marketshare is all that matters, but we hammered this out years ago when comparing attack rates on IIS vs Apache.

    Obviously marketshare is a factor. Ease of infiltration is another factor. A more popular platform will be attacked less if the chance of success is lower, because at the end of the day going after the weaker but less popular platform can still net you more compromised systems. If you only look at desktop browsers and OSes, you might not think this is the case, but that's only because right now the most popular program and the most vulnerable program are the same, and that the up-and-coming browser can only claim to be better than the most popular one on security issues, not actually good.

    In any case, common sense should not be telling you that the security of the program doesn't affect the number of hacks and viruses. Making the reasonable assumption that all code contains some number of bugs does not in any way imply that they are equally prevalent or equally easy to find in any given program, or that the time to discover the bugs is always the same and dependent only on desire. Exploring esoteric avenues of investigation because the incentive is so high does not guarantee a timely result. If it takes substantial time and effort to find an exploit, which is then fixed, requiring another substantial effort to find another exploit, then it may not be in the hackers interest to go after this target versus a lower profile one where exploits can be found faster and more frequently in spit of bug fixes.

    Put succinctly: "the amount of hacks and viruses and malware on an os/ browser has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than marketshare" is trivially wrong, at its simplest you could say that the number of hacks and viruses is related to (marketshare * vulnerability).

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  73. Wells Fargo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I signed up for Wells Fargo's security safe thing, one of the options was one of those keyfob things, which they will also sell you.

  74. Mod parent up by ZosX · · Score: 1

    All the security in the world will not keep paypal from fucking your account over and freezing your funds. Just go to paypalsucks.org or some similar site and read the horror stories. The fact that these scammers have gone on for so long without having to conform to normal banking standards is simply beyond belief. At least ebay is now finally letting third parties in on the payments.

  75. Am I vulnerable as a normal (limited) user? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, even though I do all my computing as a normal (regular, limited, non-admin) user, and I have NoScript installed, am I still vulnerable to this?

  76. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And we would have noticed the awful stench before he even hit "Submit". I like to think that the other poster actually takes showers.

  77. Ads? by jgoemat · · Score: 1

    So now Slashdot is running ads for Bitdefender disguised as stories? For shame...

  78. Re:malware targets Windows .. by WhyMeWorry · · Score: 1

    SYMPTOMS: Presence of the: "%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Firefox\plugins\npbasic.dll"

    Does this mean that it can be avoided by not putting Firefox on your "c" drive?

  79. Re:Finally, better signature management on add-ons by Kalriath · · Score: 1

    Actually, yes, it is a big deal. Just like ActiveX, signatures have to be signed by a certificate issued by a "trusted" authority. Which means paying $400 to Verisign or some other such agency.

    --
    For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  80. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by __aawkdb2598 · · Score: 1

    Stallman... is a great guy and a visionary, that most of us wouldn't be doing what we're doing without.

    Stallman, is that you?

  81. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Besides, it's well known linux users have no money. If they did, they wouldn't be using linux, wouldn't care about beer only being free, and would have real women, not the blow up kind with the round red lips.

  82. Re:Linux has less than 0.5% share, so does it matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Silly mods, that's not +Funny, it's +Insightful!

  83. Cold cyber war by Fuzzums · · Score: 1

    I've had it. Virusses, malware, spam. A lot comes from Russia and China.
    Time to let them go. Let them infect their own internet.

    --
    Privacy is terrorism.
  84. Re: market share .. by rs232 · · Score: 1

    And the geeks are most unlikly to install malware ..

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  85. Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There should be a legitmate bot-nets out there that is used to attack sites like the one collecting the information. Either send them so much false information that getting real info out of it is difficult, or denial of service them.

  86. Re:malware targets Windows .. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    Interesting idea... though if Firefox is installed in a non-standard location it's still probably identified in the Windows Registry and as such it'd be technically possible to locate the install and put the files in the correct location. I have no idea whether the malware is smart enough to actually do that...

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  87. Oh, it's twitter's cousin by dedazo · · Score: 1

    Don't be a programmer-bureaucrat; $omeone who $ub$titutes marketing buzzword$ and $oftware bloat for verifiable improvement$

    There, fixed that for ya.

    --
    Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
  88. known troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  89. JAVASCRIPT IS THE BANE OF THE INTERNET TODAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "javascript:for(var a=document.getElementsByTagName("input"),i=0;i - by clone53421 (1310749) on Thursday December 04, @12:04PM (#25990715)

    Javascript is a "double-edged sword" that can help you, on sites where dataaccess is needed for FULL functionality (e-commerce/online shopping &/or banking online come to mind here, for actual usefulness, not just "menuing eye-candy" type stuff, that you CAN make do without easily for the most part)...

    Recommendation (especially out here online, nowadays, due to javascript being misused in site content, and even adbanners (plus via HTML email & even in Adobe .pdf readers)?

    Cut javascript usage off, & only restrict it to sites that demand and actually USE javascript, usefully!

    That is so you can @ least cut the down surface area possible used in attacking you (which you leave WIDE OPEN leaving javascript running on EVERY site you visit online, for - you wouldn't even be able to ID easily, what site poisoned your machine because of it... now, leave it restricted a FEW sites only? You can probably ID which one bushwhacked you, faster).

    Anyone here is free to verify THAT statement/correction of the person I quoted of mine, over @ SECURITYFOCUS.COM &/or SECUNIA.COM (as 2 security based websites that track that type of information), anytime, to check its veracity, as to what is being used the MOST nowadays & for YEARS now, to attack you (javascript).

    Also - cutting off the indiscrimate & wholesale use of javascript on EVERY site you visit? Will speed you up, considerably & noticeably, by simply NOT using it on every site you go to, where you may not REALLY need to use it, period especially...

    Above ALL else? FIX THAT JAVASCRIPT DOM (document object model)...

    1. Re:JAVASCRIPT IS THE BANE OF THE INTERNET TODAY by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      javascript:void(document.body.style.textTransform="lowercase");

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:JAVASCRIPT IS THE BANE OF THE INTERNET TODAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your point is what?

    3. Re:JAVASCRIPT IS THE BANE OF THE INTERNET TODAY by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That's my cryptic way of saying he used too much caps lock.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  90. He's right though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nevertheless I agree with the statement that was made that javascript is trouble and a double edged sword that can help but also harm, capital letters used or not.