Slashdot Mirror

Acording to Netcraft, the site runs Microsoft-IIS (v5). I guess those guys did not read their own study

It's interesting to check out netcraft's statistics about web servers with insane uptimes.

They only list the fifty highest uptimes, the 'winner' (FreeBSD/Apache) have been up for 1410 days. That's right folks, three years and 315 days.

I'm aware that OS uptime != service uptime, and that most admin work on a *nix doesn't require a reboot, but still it indicates that they have had no major problems due to the OS.

Too me it seems like this is a great advantage when running a production server (is that the term in English?), and that it at least indicates a lower long term maintenance cost. Admittedly, those servers are only web servers, but I would think that you would observe a similar trend for servers running other kinds of services.

I'm not an admin (not yet, currently studing CS). Still, am I way off here? I see no Microsoft software on that list... Just a thought.

I'm eager to learn, corrections/observations are most welcome!

48 of the 50 longest uptime web sites running FreeBSD or a derivative thereof seems pretty stable to me.

43 675 www.goatse.cx 6 119 0 Linux Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Midwest Internet MWIS http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/requested.html Ok, so lets get this straight. www.goatse.cx runs linux, but uses Microsoft-IIS/5.0 What is wrong with this picture?

You really should look at the Netcraft survey before making stupid comments about Apache playing catch-up to IIS. It makes you look foolish. The simple truth is, IIS is playing catch-up to Apache, and failing badly in its attempt. Apache has always been better than IIS, and always will be, no matter how much code the MicroSofties rip off from it. (You did know MicroSoft ripped off the BSD tcp/ip stack to get online way back when, didn't you? And that they've been playing catch-up to Unix since their MS-DOS days.)

True, the Gimp's UI sucks turds through a straw, and the OS office apps all need some serious polish, but Postgres is closing in on Oracle. It may not be ready run General Motors, but it is ready to run any small or medium business. And it'll do it a hell of a lot more economically. The only real benefit of licensing Oracle is knowing you're helping to fund Larry Ellison's America's Cup yacht. I got better things to spend money on.

Apache is a (sic) "IIS Killer"

I think you have it backwards. IIRC, httpd was originally written by NCSA at the University of Illinois at Urbana, on some flavor or another of BSD or SYSV Unix (BSD, if I remember right...), and is older than NT3.1, at least for purposes of availability. Apache is the end result of a bunch of server admins patching the NCSA sources after NCSA quit supporting httpd (A Patchy Web Server).

The concept of the GUI (and the mouse, for that matter) date back to Xerox PARC in 1975. Incidentally, that was the same time MSwas founded. IIRC, they were selling a BASIC interpreter for some architecture or another of Intel 8008 or 8080 (anybody know the answer to that one?), probably for PL/1, out of Albuquerque, NM. Apple released the first real GUI desktop machine with the LISA in 1983. Windows 1.0 was released around '85 or '86 (the "look-and-feel" suit of Apple vs. MS was basically tossed out because Apple's UI was too close to the PARC Star UI).

As far as invention and innovation go, look to Universities and pure R&D shops. Don't look to Microsoft, unless you want accounting and marketing innovation. DOS has a rather interesting history, as does IE, at least as far as the licensing deals go.

"Do you want to live in a world where things like the GUI, 3D graphics, wordprocessing, webserving, and other commercial products were never developed?"

Most, if not all, of these technologies, originated either on pure proprietary platforms, long since extinct, or on some flavor or another of unix. Word processing in its most raw form has existed since computing cycles became cheap enough for it to be practical. 3D really took off with SGI IRIX and SGI GL, and moreso with OpenGL. In all fairness, MS did join the OpenGL steering council, but they needed to find a way to get around the limitations of the Windows GDI under NT 3.1 so that they could go after the CAD/engineering market.

I will credit you with your point about the arrogance, and to a lesser degree, the "chasing taillights" syndrome. Many people will not try something presented to them with the "[insert commercial product here] Killer" as the main advertising point.

Their uptime says all.

How about this? According to netcraft, they are running OpenBSD.

Netcraft says MA Attorney General's web site is IIS on W2K. DOH!

Hmm, it seems that it hurts so bad, when someone (the trolls) discovers something really revolutionary (Linux), wear the uniform of the partizan (the tux t-shirt), convince themselves that they differ from the crowd (MS users) and then find out that a long time ago, another revolution (FreeBSD) took place that shaked the World (IT) so baddly that even today every one uses the Manifesta (TCP/IP stack, VM, etc...) of this very first revolution. I am afraid spreading false propaganda: 1) Doesnt make you a partizan 2) Doesnt affect the real revolution Linux is not bad. The trolls that try to make themselves feel superior by using it, now thats really bad. Hmmm, why do you sound like a 50 yrs old IT manager that tries not to lose his job... For the moment see
Longest Uptimes
Most requested

Hmm, it seems that it hurts so bad, when someone (the trolls) discovers something really revolutionary (Linux), wear the uniform of the partizan (the tux t-shirt), convince themselves that they differ from the crowd (MS users) and then find out that a long time ago, another revolution (FreeBSD) took place that shaked the World (IT) so baddly that even today every one uses the Manifesta (TCP/IP stack, VM, etc...) of this very first revolution. I am afraid spreading false propaganda: 1) Doesnt make you a partizan 2) Doesnt affect the real revolution Linux is not bad. The trolls that try to make themselves feel superior by using it, now thats really bad. Hmmm, why do you sound like a 50 yrs old IT manager that tries not to lose his job... For the moment see
Longest Uptimes
Most requested

Hmm, still IIS. Try www.netcraft.com to get the site. Real men would just telnet to it, do a GET. Or a wget -S...

ASP pages tend to have a lot of COM/OCX/ActiveX crap on it, so while you do have the ChiliASP parser, the real power is in COM objects which aren't on Linux.

The site www.comptia.org
is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000.

Check out what airforce.com runs.

The military is no exception, but there are also a lot of good admins out there too.

i was goign to say apache... my former university is switching to either exchange or domino for mail now. i think they used cms or vms or something for mail before. apache was the first thing that came to mind as a very mainstream open source application. according to netcraft, apache has the highest marketshare for webservers (see http://www.netcraft.com/survey for more details). other than apache, i can't think of much, except for maybe linux as a somewhat mainstream operating system for college cs students, and small office or home servers.

if you mean desktop applications, well, there's not much out there that's open source and pretty common. mozilla is probably the only one. i'm also guessing you're talking open source software for windows, which is somewhat harder to come by. the only open source software i use on my windows machine are furthurnet (used to download digital copies of concerts by bands that allow taping) and the gimp. i also have a ftp client called filezilla which is decent. i think that's gpl'd too.

>They should recommend avoiding Windows if their problem is security.

I know we're really talking about desktops here, but in the past the BBC have certainly run their news site on Linux. Check Netcraft

The only fly in the ointment is that they persist in using Real Audio for any audio content they serve (and I've mailed them more than once when they ask for comments about this). They trialled OGG last year, I don't know what became of that.

Matt

It's nice to see Micro$oft relying on OpenSource.
(If you dont want to believe me, have a look at Netcraft)

:-)
ms

Statistics from Netcraft:

WebServer Sites
Apache 21258824
Microsoft-IIS 10143822
Zeus 711957
unknown 496657
Netscape-Enterprise 465337
Rapidsite 411267
thttpd 322974
.
.
.
.
Boa 463

The site www.boa.org is running Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) PHP/3.0.12 on Linux.

Time to Switch;-)

Actually, according to netcraft, it is running Windows: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.brown dailyherald.com&submit=Examine

No no you are not in fact if anything this proves that you are just smart. In any case let me tell you a little story about paranoia they thought I was paranoid when we decided to bolock ActiveX. Then you get a thing like this mornings shiny new MS hole that proves me %100 right. Never ever ever trust anything really important to someone that runs MS.

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.hotma il.com with 200+ days of uptime.
Unstable? I think not.

Look, the truth IS out there; just look and see. The day MS announced the migration netcraft confirmed it and has been confirming it ever since. Hotmail runs faster and uses fewer servers per user than it ever did, despite offer more features and the ability to upgrade beyond what old Hotmail ever offered. And it does it with less than 1/2 the admin staff BSD required. Why is this so hard to accept? Get over it and move on.

The parent is the kind of post that only gets modded up because no one in Slashdot actually checks the references. According to Netcraft, all the top sites for Hotmail are running IIS:

Top sites for MS Hotmail

Yeah, I noticed 64.4.14.23 is running Apache. Still, seems to be only an ad server (NS is ad.law10.hotmail.com).

Phelps-san

The parent is the kind of post that only gets modded up because no one in Slashdot actually checks the references. According to Netcraft, all the top sites for Hotmail are running IIS:

Top sites for MS Hotmail

Yeah, I noticed 64.4.14.23 is running Apache. Still, seems to be only an ad server (NS is ad.law10.hotmail.com).

Phelps-san

Yea, somebody up above in the comments found one -- ad.law10.hotmail.com. At least their Apache is up to date.

Is it your implication that:

1. Microsoft is no longer hiding the fact that they're running FreeBSD, or
2. Microsoft is no longer running FreeBSD?

If the second, you are most assuredly wrong:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=ad.law10. hotmail.com

Actually netcraft says it's running linux/apache. You didn't honestly expect windows, did you?

So it's not accurate to say the server room is running bsd. Maybe at a few pure-internet companies, or running a little utility DNS/cache/whatever box, but not running the key apps in the corporate world.

mp3.com uses FreeBSD.

Hotmail used to use FreeBSD, I'm not sure if they still do. (after it was bought by MS that is).

ftp.cdrom.com uses FreeBSD.

I'm sure there are more, and this isn't even getting into the internal server rooms of companies, hard to say there.

So it's not accurate to say the server room is running bsd. Maybe at a few pure-internet companies, or running a little utility DNS/cache/whatever box, but not running the key apps in the corporate world.

mp3.com uses FreeBSD.

Hotmail used to use FreeBSD, I'm not sure if they still do. (after it was bought by MS that is).

ftp.cdrom.com uses FreeBSD.

I'm sure there are more, and this isn't even getting into the internal server rooms of companies, hard to say there.

So it's not accurate to say the server room is running bsd. Maybe at a few pure-internet companies, or running a little utility DNS/cache/whatever box, but not running the key apps in the corporate world.

mp3.com uses FreeBSD.

Hotmail used to use FreeBSD, I'm not sure if they still do. (after it was bought by MS that is).

ftp.cdrom.com uses FreeBSD.

I'm sure there are more, and this isn't even getting into the internal server rooms of companies, hard to say there.

while you may thank verio for spam, you should also thank it for goatse.cx

OS Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Linux Microsoft-IIS/5.0 9-Oct-2002 198.247.175.96 Verio, Inc.

the server is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on NT4/Windows 98 according to netcraft...

They aren't using it for their main site, but this is a bit strange.

the server is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on NT4/Windows 98 according to netcraft...

They aren't using it for their main site, but this is a bit strange.

The site www.lycos.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000.

It would seem that not every enterprise is able to pick the right tool for the right job.

This is unfortunate, as it would otherwise render your attempt at culling a tacit endorsement from these organisations in terms of their use of your software legitimate.

one of the nicest things you can hope for when trying to gain access to a server is what software and version its running.

Hmm... most crackers use Netcraft to see what sites like the NSA website uses...

one of the nicest things you can hope for when trying to gain access to a server is what software and version its running.

Hmm... most crackers use Netcraft to see what sites like the NSA website uses...

Lots of people have bought Zeus too, even with open-source free alternatives like Apache.

A rotting dog turd competes with iPlanet.

Agreed. The iPlanet server ate our configuration files -- don't ask me how -- and trashed our site. We switched to Apache and had no more problems.

Look at Netcraft; apparently we weren't the only ones to see the light. The only thing iPlanet beats now is NCSA, and that's just barely.

I'm glad JWZ no longer works for Netscape, so I can hate them without reservation.

Yes, according to NetCraft you ARE running Debian.
Very nice of you, actually.

It doesn't look like you're running mod_gzip on that site...any reason why not? If you did, it has been known to decrease traffic load by 4x-8x in some cases...

I'm not sure if the Cobalt distro of Apache has mod_gzip by default, but I'm gonna guess not...if so, try this before you spend the extra change on a higher service tier.

Even Slashdot is using mod_gzip...

What's that site running?

The site www.debrand.com is running Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) mod_perl/1.27 mod_ssl/2.8.11
OpenSSL/0.9.6g PHP/4.2.3 on Linux.

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=on&mod e_w=on&site=www.openbsd.org

Operating System and Web Server for www.openbsd.org

The site www.openbsd.org is running Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) PHP/4.2.1 mod_perl/1.27 on Solaris.

If you had a look you would have seen that they are running Lotus-Domino/0 on Windows 2000. The book is there for useless.

Are they going to sue me for this ?

"The investigation has been detailed and has included all relevant staff and processes that handle confidential information, as well as technical security," said Thomas Ahlerup, Head of Corporate and Investor relations of Intentia International AB.

While most everyone here will agree that Reuters at worst could have their actions describe as exploiting Intentia's utter stupidity, quotes like this show how little some people know about computers. This guy obviously thinks that just because they didn't provide an explicit hyperlink that the data on their server is "confidential." What I fear is that some non-technology savvy judge will actually follow this same train of thought and rule against Reuters. Is this ridiculous? Yes. Is it unfortunately all too real of a possibility? Yes as well.

PS - I checked Netcraft and they are running Windows 2000. Is it any surprise that their security guys would believe that data freely available on their server is secure if they also think a server on Win2k is secure in the first place?

Netcraft Confirms!

It's a sweep! ALL FIFTY of the top 50 longest uptime web sites run either FreeBSD or its derivative BSDi.

Congratulations to the FreeBSD team.

It's easy to argue that millitary software should be free. If you compare the quality of free software to that of comercial software in actual performance, you have to conclude that free software is superior. See here for a dramatic example of high profile, high visiblity, and high risk software. Would you send people into battle with second rate goods? Not me. If you took the time to follow that Yorktown link you will find a ship that had to be towed back to port because it's NT system failed when a sailor input a 0, which the program devided by and then took down the local OS which disabled the entire propusion system of the ship. Contrary to your belief, software for a Yorktown class ship can be used for any ship. Well designed software is modular and takes parameters to make it fit specific systems. That is why the BSD and linux have been ported to so many different types of computers, from embeded systems to Los Alamos supercomputer. Externaly, the systems are completely different, but closer inspection reveals common features. A turbine is a turbine and the software to control it should be able to work with any turbine with a few paramiter changes.

The sabotage threat is silly. First, free software is more resiliant to such things. Second, if your enemy has gotten that far you have much greater problems than securing your computers.

do you get a kick out of the fact that linux.cx is running on Windows 2000?

Anybody else get a kick out of the fact the Mac Freak site is running on linux?