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If you take a Mac and Price spec for Spec (Every spec even if you don't think it is a big deal such as glowing keyboard with light sensor or weight and thinness) You will find that the Price of the Mac is the same as any other new Commercially built system out there of the same quality.

For the very low-end models, maybe, but when you look at the price of the higher models and upgrades -- literally comparing Apples to Apples -- it's readily apparent that their prices are way off, and egregiously so.

Let's compare two "base" iMacs, the only noted difference being the processor and HD:
21.5" Core i5 2.5GHz & 500GB -> 21.5" Core i5 2.7GHz & 1TB [$300 difference]
Core i5-2400S 2.5GHz $184 & Seagate Barracuda 500GB $84 (Total: $268) -> Core i5-2500S 2.7GHz $205 & Segate 1 Barracuda TB $109 (Total: $314)
Actual Difference: $46 Apple's Markup: 552%
Sources: Intel's price list 500GB @ NewEgg 1TB @ NewEgg

Component upgrades for the second iMac:
2.7GHz Core i5 -> 2.8GHz Core i7 [Add $200.00]
Core i5-2500S 2.7GHz $205 -> Core i7-2600S $294 Actual Difference: $89 Apple's Markup: 125%
Source: Same as above

4GB -> 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB [Add $200.00]
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 $25 x2 = $50. Actual Difference: $25 Apple's Markup: 700%
Source: The most expensive laptop 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM @ NewEgg

4GB -> 16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB [Add $600.00]
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 $25 x4 = $100. Actual Difference: $75 Apple's Markup: 700%
Source: Same as above.

1TB -> 2TB 7200RPM Serial ATA Drive [Add $150.00]
Seagate Barracuda 1TB $109 -> Seagate 2TB $130 Actual Difference: $11 Apple's Markup: 1263%
Source: 1TB @ NewEgg 2TB @ NewEgg

And then there's the whole issue of using mobile components in a desktop. Why would they do that? Not to provide value -- mobile components are generally more expensive and lower performing then their desktop components -- but to cram them into a retarded form factor. Sorry, Apple's tax is alive and well, and it's insulting to an informed consumer. You can throw together a *better* system for well less than what Apple charges for its iMac and as a bonus, you don't have to buy a new your monitor when you upgrade your entire system. And for $28 and a little pre-planning, you can even throw Lion on it or run it in a VM. Yes, you have to learn or know how to do it, but as they say, ignorance can be expensive.

If you take a Mac and Price spec for Spec (Every spec even if you don't think it is a big deal such as glowing keyboard with light sensor or weight and thinness) You will find that the Price of the Mac is the same as any other new Commercially built system out there of the same quality.

For the very low-end models, maybe, but when you look at the price of the higher models and upgrades -- literally comparing Apples to Apples -- it's readily apparent that their prices are way off, and egregiously so.

Let's compare two "base" iMacs, the only noted difference being the processor and HD:
21.5" Core i5 2.5GHz & 500GB -> 21.5" Core i5 2.7GHz & 1TB [$300 difference]
Core i5-2400S 2.5GHz $184 & Seagate Barracuda 500GB $84 (Total: $268) -> Core i5-2500S 2.7GHz $205 & Segate 1 Barracuda TB $109 (Total: $314)
Actual Difference: $46 Apple's Markup: 552%
Sources: Intel's price list 500GB @ NewEgg 1TB @ NewEgg

Component upgrades for the second iMac:
2.7GHz Core i5 -> 2.8GHz Core i7 [Add $200.00]
Core i5-2500S 2.7GHz $205 -> Core i7-2600S $294 Actual Difference: $89 Apple's Markup: 125%
Source: Same as above

4GB -> 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB [Add $200.00]
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 $25 x2 = $50. Actual Difference: $25 Apple's Markup: 700%
Source: The most expensive laptop 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM @ NewEgg

4GB -> 16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB [Add $600.00]
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 $25 x4 = $100. Actual Difference: $75 Apple's Markup: 700%
Source: Same as above.

1TB -> 2TB 7200RPM Serial ATA Drive [Add $150.00]
Seagate Barracuda 1TB $109 -> Seagate 2TB $130 Actual Difference: $11 Apple's Markup: 1263%
Source: 1TB @ NewEgg 2TB @ NewEgg

And then there's the whole issue of using mobile components in a desktop. Why would they do that? Not to provide value -- mobile components are generally more expensive and lower performing then their desktop components -- but to cram them into a retarded form factor. Sorry, Apple's tax is alive and well, and it's insulting to an informed consumer. You can throw together a *better* system for well less than what Apple charges for its iMac and as a bonus, you don't have to buy a new your monitor when you upgrade your entire system. And for $28 and a little pre-planning, you can even throw Lion on it or run it in a VM. Yes, you have to learn or know how to do it, but as they say, ignorance can be expensive.

Except that's it's true at this vary moment. Cheapest macbook with a 17 inch screen direct from apple is 2500, while I can buy an acer aspire with a slightly slower cpu (2.2 vs 2.4 GHZ) for 900. Those are similar hardware, and the extra speed is not cost effective to purchase right now.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

I'm still waiting. [...] Your theory, without facts to prove it, will remain a theory (i.e. worthless).

Your proof was provided nearly 11 hours ago. Your intentional ignoring of it just goes to prove how much of a troll you still are.

And if for some reason that doesn't count, while I could take a page from your book and make you look it up yourself, suck on this Mr Troll64.

These too.

using less RAM than the modern Firefox 10 and even Chrome

Firefox is currently using 500MB on my laptop, I assume most of it from caching. Are you really that desperate? Send me a pm, and I'll give you a gig of RAM free, which I have laying around after my last upgrade. Or buy it here yourself for $32.

Sure. Throw in more memory. Why the hell not. After all, 500MB seems perfectly reasonable for a web browser, right? Hell, Adobe Reader certainly justified any upgrade from version 5.x because everyone knows a 100MB+ bloatware installer is necessary for....reading PDFs.

Sorry, I guess I'm as irritated as the next guy for watching my hardware upgrade cycle be dictated by bloatware running on a ridiculous upgrade cycle, especially where value-add is pretty damn hard to find.

using less RAM than the modern Firefox 10 and even Chrome

Firefox is currently using 500MB on my laptop, I assume most of it from caching. Are you really that desperate? Send me a pm, and I'll give you a gig of RAM free, which I have laying around after my last upgrade. Or buy it here yourself for $32.

Thanks for both replies.

My new build is in the mail... or more specifically on a conveyor
somewhere, 5 miles away, waiting to be put on a truck. Thanks UPS.

Went with the i7-2700K (if wondering, because I got it for $50
less than the lowest price out there, which put it under the 2600K).

Chose an ASRock Extreme 4, Z68 Nbridge. So, I'm glad to hear
you like their OC tools. It was one of the reasons I went with them.

I'm breaking out an old full server tower for this setup, so I can
put on a Corsair H80 and have room for fans:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181016

I will be saddened if I cannot hit 5GHz

-AI

The E-350 is 18w under load, hell the Phenom I E is a max 65w under load and idles less than 30w and we are talking about a machine that can transcode from any format to any format! nobody is talking about using some Pentium 4 space heater here dude, low power computing has never been cheaper. Here check this out its less than 30 minutes to put together, just pop a couple of screws and pop in the RAM and HDD and you are good to go, even has built in wireless and is only 18w max while doing 1080p. Hell there are plenty of videos on youTube of guys playing games on them! I know my netbook which is the same chip plays L4D and GTA:VC just fine.

It's the one linked in the parent to my post.

These are the older ones:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136916
The old interface: http://youtu.be/NQdSLOhrVMc

The new interface is in the my previous post. You can also see the size of the remotes in the postings. The newer version's remote is twice the size of the old one. It's not perfect since I wish that it had a qwerty keypad that flipped out. Also, the colored buttons on the new remote are a little confusing to know which to push. But trial and error wins out.

I got my WD Live for $80 about a year or so ago. Plays 1080p mkv flawlessly off of a samba share from a linux server. It just works.

Looks different and a little more expensive then mine, but probably still worth getting: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136997

I just purchased one of these as my first smart phone. It cost ~$150 from Newegg. I have a basic AT&T phone plan with no extras. The phone comes with several apps and GPS.

I slipped in the SIM card, and it worked right off the bat. It connected to my home network (encrypted with hidden name) easily, and connected to the Internet without problems.

I had an older Nokia phone, and the Nokia OVI Suite software (free) connected to it, and I synced my contacts with my computer. Then I connected the new one, and uploaded the contacts.

My AT&T plan does not include connection to the Internet, so I will need a Hot Spot for access when away from home.

Overall, for the price, it is a bargain.

I'm honestly unable to understand what you mean by this phrase and parenthetical explanation. What is a "real Tablet PC" capable of that an iPad is not?

I have a distinct feeling you're speaking from ignorance (rather than just outright trolling) but I am curious if there is a difference you (or others) care to share.

His statement is a bit inflammatory and opinionated, but he's right about Tablet PCs being something different: they are a distinct type of system intended to cover both tablet and notebook use cases in a single device. A 'pure' tablet like the iPad or various Android ones is a different class of device that tends to be used for a different use case.

"Tablet PC" refers to hybrid convertible notebooks, which can be used as either a normal notebook (with keyboard) or as a tablet, usually with a wacom digitiser, by rotating the screen on its hinge and then closing the notebook. Due to the design, they're bulkier than a pure tablet but more flexible, and the existence of a proper digital pen instead of a stylus is useful for many due to things like improved accuracy, pressure sensitivity, buttons on the pen, etc.

Fujitsu and Lenovo are, as far as I know, the primary makers of these types of systems (example: Fujitsu Lifebook), though Asus also made a low-end one in its EeePC line, the Eee PC T101.

It also usually implies x86 architecture with Windows (or Linux), but that is more of a user expectation; the devices are primarily defined by the hybrid design, not by their OS or software. If the Axiotron Modbook didn't remove the keyboard as part of the conversion process it would probably be considered a TabletPC as well.

Some tablets are starting to blur the distinction, however, such as Lenovo's Thinkpad Tablet, which is an Android touch-based tablet that also has optional parts that make it act more like a TabletPC. Specifically, a pressure-sensitive digital pen (by N-trig) and a keyboard case that plugs into its USB port and turns the device into something more akin to a netbook. Another example is the Asus Eee Pad Transformer", which acts as a keyboard/

(For what it's worth, I have the TPT and love having an android device with a stylus. Haven't gotten the keyboard folio, and I'm not sure I even want it. I have a notebook for that.)

I'm honestly unable to understand what you mean by this phrase and parenthetical explanation. What is a "real Tablet PC" capable of that an iPad is not?

I have a distinct feeling you're speaking from ignorance (rather than just outright trolling) but I am curious if there is a difference you (or others) care to share.

His statement is a bit inflammatory and opinionated, but he's right about Tablet PCs being something different: they are a distinct type of system intended to cover both tablet and notebook use cases in a single device. A 'pure' tablet like the iPad or various Android ones is a different class of device that tends to be used for a different use case.

"Tablet PC" refers to hybrid convertible notebooks, which can be used as either a normal notebook (with keyboard) or as a tablet, usually with a wacom digitiser, by rotating the screen on its hinge and then closing the notebook. Due to the design, they're bulkier than a pure tablet but more flexible, and the existence of a proper digital pen instead of a stylus is useful for many due to things like improved accuracy, pressure sensitivity, buttons on the pen, etc.

Fujitsu and Lenovo are, as far as I know, the primary makers of these types of systems (example: Fujitsu Lifebook), though Asus also made a low-end one in its EeePC line, the Eee PC T101.

It also usually implies x86 architecture with Windows (or Linux), but that is more of a user expectation; the devices are primarily defined by the hybrid design, not by their OS or software. If the Axiotron Modbook didn't remove the keyboard as part of the conversion process it would probably be considered a TabletPC as well.

Some tablets are starting to blur the distinction, however, such as Lenovo's Thinkpad Tablet, which is an Android touch-based tablet that also has optional parts that make it act more like a TabletPC. Specifically, a pressure-sensitive digital pen (by N-trig) and a keyboard case that plugs into its USB port and turns the device into something more akin to a netbook. Another example is the Asus Eee Pad Transformer", which acts as a keyboard/

(For what it's worth, I have the TPT and love having an android device with a stylus. Haven't gotten the keyboard folio, and I'm not sure I even want it. I have a notebook for that.)

If I were a major computer manufacturer these days, I'd spec in AMD CPUs (Black Editions, etc.), then attach a self-contained coolant system to it, and crank it until it reached the temperatures that the i7 normally operates at. The $500 in cost savings would appeal to my customers, and I'd be able to price my competitors out of the market.

A core i7 2700k (unlocked for overclocking) only costs $369 on Newegg ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115095 ). Pair it with the most expensive LGA 1155 motherboard they have at $339 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131760 ), and you're paying $708. Do you mean to tell me that you can get an equivalently powerful AMD processor, with a motherboard with similar features, for less than $210?

Now what if I were to tell you that you can get a motherboard that ticks all the same boxes as the other one, for $129? ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271 ). That brings the total cost down to $498. Could you please enlighten me on how it is possible to *save* $500 by building an AMD solution instead of Intel, when the Intel option is less than $500, at retail ?

The only consumers spending over $1000 on a CPU are the folks with too much money and not enough brains. And while you can spend that much on an extreme edition 6-core Intel processor, you're forgetting that it's also overclockable, by about 30%, and that you'd really be pushing things if you tried to get an FX6 running stably at 4.5GHz. You'd also be forgetting that unless something is massively parallel, the i7 still retains a performance edge over the bulldozer architecture. Chiefly, though, you'd be forgetting that for 99% of what you do, you'll never see the difference between the i7 2700 and the FX6, except perhaps that the ability to use a small SSD as a cache drive to improve spinny platter drive performance, something that's built into the Intel Z68 motherboard chipset and, at least last I checked, didn't exist on the AMD platform, would actually give the i7 a boost in real world usage, for significantly less price (pair a 32GB SSD with a 3TB spinny platter drive, and you get the write speed of the SSD, coupled with the capacity of the spinny platter drive). You may see a performance increase in things like video encoding, depending on the software you're using, but it's not going to get you any more frames per second in Skyrim. And truthfully? When I rip a DVD, I queue up the transcode in Handbrake before I go to bed, set it to turn the computer off when it's done, and don't really care if it finishes 2 minutes earlier.

If I were a major computer manufacturer these days, I'd spec in AMD CPUs (Black Editions, etc.), then attach a self-contained coolant system to it, and crank it until it reached the temperatures that the i7 normally operates at. The $500 in cost savings would appeal to my customers, and I'd be able to price my competitors out of the market.

A core i7 2700k (unlocked for overclocking) only costs $369 on Newegg ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115095 ). Pair it with the most expensive LGA 1155 motherboard they have at $339 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131760 ), and you're paying $708. Do you mean to tell me that you can get an equivalently powerful AMD processor, with a motherboard with similar features, for less than $210?

Now what if I were to tell you that you can get a motherboard that ticks all the same boxes as the other one, for $129? ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271 ). That brings the total cost down to $498. Could you please enlighten me on how it is possible to *save* $500 by building an AMD solution instead of Intel, when the Intel option is less than $500, at retail ?

The only consumers spending over $1000 on a CPU are the folks with too much money and not enough brains. And while you can spend that much on an extreme edition 6-core Intel processor, you're forgetting that it's also overclockable, by about 30%, and that you'd really be pushing things if you tried to get an FX6 running stably at 4.5GHz. You'd also be forgetting that unless something is massively parallel, the i7 still retains a performance edge over the bulldozer architecture. Chiefly, though, you'd be forgetting that for 99% of what you do, you'll never see the difference between the i7 2700 and the FX6, except perhaps that the ability to use a small SSD as a cache drive to improve spinny platter drive performance, something that's built into the Intel Z68 motherboard chipset and, at least last I checked, didn't exist on the AMD platform, would actually give the i7 a boost in real world usage, for significantly less price (pair a 32GB SSD with a 3TB spinny platter drive, and you get the write speed of the SSD, coupled with the capacity of the spinny platter drive). You may see a performance increase in things like video encoding, depending on the software you're using, but it's not going to get you any more frames per second in Skyrim. And truthfully? When I rip a DVD, I queue up the transcode in Handbrake before I go to bed, set it to turn the computer off when it's done, and don't really care if it finishes 2 minutes earlier.

If I were a major computer manufacturer these days, I'd spec in AMD CPUs (Black Editions, etc.), then attach a self-contained coolant system to it, and crank it until it reached the temperatures that the i7 normally operates at. The $500 in cost savings would appeal to my customers, and I'd be able to price my competitors out of the market.

A core i7 2700k (unlocked for overclocking) only costs $369 on Newegg ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115095 ). Pair it with the most expensive LGA 1155 motherboard they have at $339 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131760 ), and you're paying $708. Do you mean to tell me that you can get an equivalently powerful AMD processor, with a motherboard with similar features, for less than $210?

Now what if I were to tell you that you can get a motherboard that ticks all the same boxes as the other one, for $129? ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271 ). That brings the total cost down to $498. Could you please enlighten me on how it is possible to *save* $500 by building an AMD solution instead of Intel, when the Intel option is less than $500, at retail ?

The only consumers spending over $1000 on a CPU are the folks with too much money and not enough brains. And while you can spend that much on an extreme edition 6-core Intel processor, you're forgetting that it's also overclockable, by about 30%, and that you'd really be pushing things if you tried to get an FX6 running stably at 4.5GHz. You'd also be forgetting that unless something is massively parallel, the i7 still retains a performance edge over the bulldozer architecture. Chiefly, though, you'd be forgetting that for 99% of what you do, you'll never see the difference between the i7 2700 and the FX6, except perhaps that the ability to use a small SSD as a cache drive to improve spinny platter drive performance, something that's built into the Intel Z68 motherboard chipset and, at least last I checked, didn't exist on the AMD platform, would actually give the i7 a boost in real world usage, for significantly less price (pair a 32GB SSD with a 3TB spinny platter drive, and you get the write speed of the SSD, coupled with the capacity of the spinny platter drive). You may see a performance increase in things like video encoding, depending on the software you're using, but it's not going to get you any more frames per second in Skyrim. And truthfully? When I rip a DVD, I queue up the transcode in Handbrake before I go to bed, set it to turn the computer off when it's done, and don't really care if it finishes 2 minutes earlier.

the APUs? sure, go find me a similar power consumption intel with 6 sata3 ports on a mini-itx board. Also they are far better GPU wise than intels atom.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131732 Find me an Intel (or ARM) replacement in the same power envelope and I'd be interested.

To be honest my x6 is plenty fast enough, I'm sure I could buy faster, but for the same price and wanting sata3 ports it gets tricky to do in mini-itx on intel.

I don't know about him but 'Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium' from Newegg is 99. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

Yes, because Microsoft's intent is for you to keep your existing computer running Vista, and buy an OEM license for Windows 7 to install on top of it. You're probably one of those people who justify it by picking up a $5 mouse and saying you build a new system.

You can't get cheep windows VPSs probably due to the cost of windows license. I don't know why you would want to mount an ISO on a server with less than 256 MB of RAM but you could serve the content of an ISO from one if you somehow wanted to avoid extracting it.

You are right that any "machine" with the RAM to meet windows requirements probably can handle a GUI.

When ram runs under $20 for your choice of brand in 4GB sticks I fail to find myself concerned with how much ram windows wants. It is one of the (if not the) cheapest components of a computer these days. Splurge and get yourself an 8GB upgrade for 40 bucks. May or may not be a surprise to you but Linux runs slicker than snot on a healthy amount of RAM as well.
My source for pricing: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006067&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20

Need a drive in a hurry? 2tb for $130 at Microcenter, same price as Newegg. Gee, do I wanna wait a week or have the drive in my PC this afternoon? Decisions, decisions.... oh Newegg wants $7.86 shipping? Microcenter it is!

But I guess if the Forbes reporter included Microcenter that would have gone against his 5-page theory generating god knows how many banner ads. Best we just forget Microcenter exists so Forbes can make a few extra $$$ off ads. Selling out journalistic honesty to make a few bucks? You betcha!

Ummm.... doesn't Microcenter count? Guess not according to Forbes, because in 2006 they had 19 stores, 20 in 2007, 21 in 2008, and in 2012 Microcenter has 23 stores. Sure that's slow growth, but still growth none-the-less, and they're much better than CompUSA, Circuit City (is Circuit City "tech"?) and Best Buy because Microcenter actually has competitive prices.

Want a new MSI Geforce GTX 580 video card? $500 from Newegg, $520 from Microcenter. Think I'd just pay that extra 4% to have the card TODAY and have a local shop to return/exchange it to if there's a problem and judging from the 13% 1-egg reviews I'd there is a good risk there could be a problem.

If you look at Newegg's RMA FAQ, they're draconian.

For instance, they want you to remove all passwords from laptops or notebook computers if you RMA one. Interesting question - how do you do that if it's a HDD failure on the laptop? What happens if you RMA it because it was a faulty motherboard and now won't boot? A lot of their laptops/notebooks you can't remove the HDD to perform a wipe prior to returning it; a dead motherboard = returned laptop with data on HDD.

As for data privacy, it appears they have no policy whatsoever. RMA the drive direct to manufacturer and you may have some recourse... of course, I've also found that Seagate are assholes about packaging (in order to get an RMA from them once, I had to to two levels up for a supervisor who'd agree to send me a shipping box, as the Fedex and UPS offices in my area only provided packing peanuts and bubble wrap, and Seagate insists on "foam" or those weird plastic endpiece things).

It has nothing to do with AMD and frankly you will NEVER get those bits because it would be illegal to give them to you. AMD has already said there is nothing they can do over HDCP and protected path as that technology is owned by the HDMI consortium and to give out that information would be breaking DMCA as well as get every AMD card blacklisted. If you want those bits you can use the blob which again Phoronix ran full tests and found it runs just fine on Ubuntu 10.04 and Ubuntu 11 runs OOTB, it also smokes Atom + ION on their benches. For a board that costs just $142 for the barebone kit complete with PSU and case that makes it a hell of a cheap Linux box, especially when you figure in the fact you are getting dual core plus Radeon plus the ability to run 8Gb of RAM.

But FOSS users are simply gonna have to accept the fact unless you wanna do like RMS and hop on chinamart for some funky ass Loongson MIPS netbook there are NO machines that you are gonna have complete access to, because if it has even slightly modern video output it'll have protected path and if it has wireless it'll have non FOSS firmware. Hell even the Raspberry Pi has broadcom binary blobs, welcome to reality. in the end what should matter is "does it work" and as phoronix shows yes it does, and it beats Atom + ION while having better graphics and often a lower price. Seems like a win/win to me but if you really have your heart set on Nvidia they have a PCIe slot, and there is an open box GT210 on Newegg for less than $20, knock yourself out. Even with the discrete card it'll still be cheaper than an Atom + ION board.

But does it have enough power to actually record? Or is it just another media tank? hell if you want a full blown HTPC you can buy an AMD based for cheap and slap on your choice of Linux or Windows and voila! Instant HTPC with XBMC (or if you use Windows WMC or MediaPortal) and if all you want is a media tank you can buy the Nbox HD for $59 that does 1080p and is ready to go or if you want streaming a WDTV for $99.

Don't get me wrong the Raspberry looks like a cool toy to fiddle with, i just don't see it having enough horse to be a full blown HTPC. Recording HD or even SD video can put a strain on a chip and the Raspberry was made to be low priced not high powered. But I have a feeling once you added all the stuff required to make it a fully functional HTPC you'd be better off just getting one the the AMD E-350s and calling it a day. According to Phoronix Ubuntu 10.04 and better has OOTB support for those chips so it should be a cakewalk to make a XBMC system out of one, everything works OOTB.

So does this phase-out mean I won't be able to use the 4 VGA CRTs and 1 DVI LCD I have accumulated over the years?

As for keeping CRT's around, I realize the better CRT's can have sweet color depth, nice refresh rates and are just swell when it comes to different resolutions. But I was happy to give away my heavy-ass large 21" CRT's to my friends and get a BIG chunk of my desktop back (this was about 10 years ago for me; I realize you're not there yet).
Anyway, with converters you can keep your CRT's going for a long time. Enjoy. :-)

What a waste of perfectly functional equipment.

There will be a market "of sorts" for this "functional equipment". But there is a reason we are seeing CRT monitors and televisions left out in the alley by the garbage cans.
At what point does it become unprofitable to sell them via ebay? (hint: if ship_cost > avg_sale_price then dumpster_time )

Looking ahead, how many DVI and VGA connectors will we see on tablets or ultrabooks (or smart phones for that matter); those ports are huge compared to mini-HDMI. Maybe you aren't part of the tablet/ultrabook/smartphone market. *shrug* Many people are.
(Looking somewhat further ahead, people will be asking why HDMI is going away in favor of direct retinal projection... anyway.)
But hey, if you want to talk about "wasting" perfectly functional equipment, let's talk about these:
DEC Writer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100use one of these and you get a CRT :-)
Plotter
Telegraph Key Bonus points for extra retro. :-)
Sure, somewhere on our planet, today, there are some people who use each of these things.
Just not most people.
Just like in 2022, you'll be one of a handful of CRT enthusiasts. *shrug* That is cool and all.
But asking "why waste perfectly good equipment?" That is like asking "why did our species move from stone-age to the bronze-age?"
*sigh* Somewhere, thousands of years ago, Ogg was asking "Why you waste such good rocks?!"
(So why was this "+5 Duh" parent post modded "+5 Informative?")

Just picked three random motherboards off newegg, expensive, midrange, and cheap, and none of them had serial or parallel ports:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131803
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130582
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138339

Interestingly, the cheapest one does list serial and parallel headers on the board, so with the right adapter you could still get them.

Just picked three random motherboards off newegg, expensive, midrange, and cheap, and none of them had serial or parallel ports:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131803
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130582
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138339

Interestingly, the cheapest one does list serial and parallel headers on the board, so with the right adapter you could still get them.

Just picked three random motherboards off newegg, expensive, midrange, and cheap, and none of them had serial or parallel ports:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131803
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130582
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138339

Interestingly, the cheapest one does list serial and parallel headers on the board, so with the right adapter you could still get them.

Puts me in mind of the wonderful move to SATA connectors

The motherboard I purchased recently came with a few SATA cables with locking connectors. Other than cost, there's no good reason all SATA cables aren't like this...

For the record though: over-30 inches and you're in the 400+ USD range so it isn't the cheapest answer.

For the record: for a TV sitting across the living room to be of the same viewing area of a 30" screen right in front of you, you're talking at least a 50 inch LCD TV. Most of which are still around a thousand dollars, and all of which are well over $400....so you were saying?

Most people own TVs independently of the console vs. PC.

And if you ask console gamers why they bought a high def TV, what would the answer be? Sure, they might say sports and movies but also....games. But okay, let's say "most people" own TV's independent of playing console games.

However, speaking of "bursting bubbles", you can make the same argument for computers - "most people" have PC's in their home, independent of playing computer games. And for the cost of a couple controllers for a console, you can buy a cheap dedicated graphics card that will do as good or better in that PC as anything an Xbox 360 or PS3 can do. If the base cost of a TV can be written off for console gaming "because most people have a TV", the base cost of a basic PC can be written off "because most people have a PC". The supposed cost advantage of consoles: thoroughly re-nuked.

The cost just to switch between AMD choices is creeping up on 600 every 2-3 years or 200-300 a year. Intel is even greater

Now you're just putting on the clown shoes. A motherboard/cpu combo can be had for less than half the cost of a new console. Throw in a cheap graphics card, a stick of RAM, and you'll have a system that will blow the doors off a PS3 or 360 for the cost of a Wii. Or did you skip over the part where console costs can be inflated right along with PC gaming costs? You want to start talking $300 processors or $300 graphics cards, and we'll also start talking about $5000 TV's and $800 stereo systems.

But, amazing things can be done when selective math is used in conjunction with leaning an elbow on one side of the scales.

It's just a computer with a tv card attached to an HDTV.

So, why not just... connect a computer to your TV??

There are plenty of 'book size' mini-PCs that can be connected via HDMI or even good old-fashioned D-sub cables to your (flatscreen) TV.

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=309&name=Mini-Booksize-Barebone-Systems

And there are plenty of HTPC applications to choose from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_theater_PC#Software

For example, I use MediaPortal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaPortal

The hardware required is such that even an 'old' pc can run it:
        1.4 GHz Intel Pentium III
        256 MB of RAM
        DirectX 9.0 hardware-accelerated GPU
        200 MB free harddisk-drive space for the software
        12 GB or more free harddisk-drive space for Hardware Encoding or Digital TV based TV cards for timeshifting purposes

It's set up is... simple, and it probably has all the features you need. And if it doesn't there are tons of Plug-ins for it. Have an Anime Collection? No problem- there's a plugin to scan it and download the covers/fanart/descriptions/etc. Same with TV series, and Movies. Browsing Youtube. Watching streaming content from the Internet. And so on.

And the great thing is, I can swap out my TV (37") for a bigger one at any time. I can expand it with another Harddrive at any time. I can decide to use any other HTPC software at any time. I'm not locked in at all.

'Smart TV's' will end up looking like this: http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x74/chicbn872/Movie%20Stills/idiocracy-tv-dvd.jpg , with ads and extra crap you don't want. And you won't be able to change it without buying a whole new TV.

I got something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994020 and put my boot drive on it. If I have to boot Windows, I simply undock it for the update.

Best bet IMHO is the new AMD E-350 mini boards. you are talking about a unit that uses 18w for the chip and around 35w all told full load, has a Radeon chip built into the APU that has support for just about every format, many of them even have a PCIe so if you decide you need even more GPU you can add it easily but since they do 1080p over HDMI I really don't see the point but its nice to have the option, and you can pick up one for $70 after rebate if you don't mind using a DVI to HDMI adapter or $100 if you want an HDMI built in. Oh and they hold 8Gb of RAM which is nice as Win 7 superfetch will load all your apps into RAM to make it VERY snappy. Great little unit and easy peasy to make a whisper quiet HTPC with one, I've built a couple for customers and they are happy as can be with it. And Netflix works just fine in WMC friend, it shows up under Internet TV along with about 2 dozen free channels.

As for TFA the point of this is.....what exactly? any TV new and fancy enough to have that port will already have streaming built in and the ones old enough they could use this won't have the port. Sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me. For those customers that didn't have the money to go HTPC I recommend the WD TV Live which is small and looks nice in an entertainment center and whether they choose HTPC or WDTV for the kiddies i recommend the Nbox Media Player as its simple enough for young ones to use and with a 200Gb drive you can load all their favorite shows and movies on them no problem and no have to worry about little Suzy crying because her sister scratched their favorite Dora disc. Oh and for those that have clueless family/friends that want to be able to rip DVDs? Tipard DVD ripper, best $30 they'll ever spend as its literally "push button to rip movie" and its default setting is to a bog standard DivX 5 which will play on anything and it has built in Streams and CUDA to help speed ripping.

That is one really nice thing about today, when i started with HTPCs they cost an arm and a leg to build and now you can build a really nice unit with frankly insane amounts of power for cheap, hell you shop around you can build one nice enough to even game on for less than $600. And when I started out pretty much the only software you had was this buggy shit that came with whatever cap card you got, now their is WMC and XBMC and MediaPortal and MythTV, man its never been easier to have a nice HTPC!

Most of what you said I can agree with (or at least concede) but:

This meme has been poked down a couple times. Conventional wisdom is that they are comparably priced with other similar hardware. I'm sure I could find an example and you could find a counter-example. One big difference is that apple only plays in the higher-end of the market, so you'll never find a barebones mac that could compare to a barebones PC.

No. You clearly have not done price comparisons, either recently, or ever. I did one just today, for someone essentially making the same claim as you, in another thread on this same story. Apple computers are very consistently around 90 to 100% more expensive than a typical PC with identical components. It can vary as much as 50-150%, but the disparity is usually greater the higher up the price scale you go.

Here's the example I gave earlier: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215180
$629 Acer laptop with all the same specs as its $1,199 Macbook Pro counterpart. http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD313LL/A?select=select&product=MD313LL%2FA

Pick any computer in their store there, and I'd bet you good money I can find you the same 50% price reduction on an equivalent PC from a reputable vendor.

So someone who doesn't want those things can go buy a PC laptop with the same specs as your Macbook Pro for roughly $500-$700. About half the price.
Here, for example is one for $629 with exactly the same specs as your $1,199 Macbook Pro: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215180

It's always been that way.

Why wait? Intsall one of these at each house, with a relatively clear line of sight between them, align them, and you're all set, and for less than $200:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833997181

11-54Mb/s betweern them which should be plenty of B/W for your use case. For distances up to a few miles the internal antenna are fine. Configure both units for ethernet bridge mode and configure MAC filtering to keep others from abusing the bridge. I'll leave the rest to you, as surely you can figure it out, being a /. member.

A better link to the case the parent is talking about and a link to newegg

here is another one and this one will hold a 5.25 drive as well. I want to like the fractal designs Array case, but I would like at least a slim optical bay.

As the "Anonymous Coward" above has suggested, you can:

Get a full tower case, something like a Lian-Li PC 80 with 12 5.25" bays

Then get 4 5-in-3 hot-swap bays

And as many SATA cards as you need to populate the bays (With 6 SATA connectors on your motherboard, you'd probably need another 2 4-port SATA cards to fill the box)

Top the lot off with a 750W+ power supply, and you're all set. Throw it in the basement, or out in the garage if it's temperature controlled (Would have problems with that up here in Canada; -40 makes for very unhappy PCs without a lot of sealing against condensation).

That'll get you (using 3TB hard-drive) 60TB of storage in a single case. You'll also have 2 free SATA ports, so you could have a separate SSD as your boot drive.

If you're going to be upgrading, you might want to switch to Serviio for your uPNP hosting, as it also handles on-the-fly transcoding into supported formats for uPNP/DLNA hosts using FFMpeg, and upgrading the CPU to enable real-time HD transcoding. Then you can store your media in the best format you can (Native from source, or x264/DTS if the source is raw), and not have to worry about having multiple copies around to deal with client compatibility.

This can all be done incrementally, too, especially if you don't have the funds for it on-hand at the moment (who does?).

As the "Anonymous Coward" above has suggested, you can:

Get a full tower case, something like a Lian-Li PC 80 with 12 5.25" bays

Then get 4 5-in-3 hot-swap bays

And as many SATA cards as you need to populate the bays (With 6 SATA connectors on your motherboard, you'd probably need another 2 4-port SATA cards to fill the box)

Top the lot off with a 750W+ power supply, and you're all set. Throw it in the basement, or out in the garage if it's temperature controlled (Would have problems with that up here in Canada; -40 makes for very unhappy PCs without a lot of sealing against condensation).

That'll get you (using 3TB hard-drive) 60TB of storage in a single case. You'll also have 2 free SATA ports, so you could have a separate SSD as your boot drive.

If you're going to be upgrading, you might want to switch to Serviio for your uPNP hosting, as it also handles on-the-fly transcoding into supported formats for uPNP/DLNA hosts using FFMpeg, and upgrading the CPU to enable real-time HD transcoding. Then you can store your media in the best format you can (Native from source, or x264/DTS if the source is raw), and not have to worry about having multiple copies around to deal with client compatibility.

This can all be done incrementally, too, especially if you don't have the funds for it on-hand at the moment (who does?).

Since I'm constantly looking for something in this department of late, let me offer some input.

* I'd go with an i3 system with a small amount of ram (4GB would do the trick). Make sure the board has at least two PCIe slots which will be suitable
* Intel Ethernet is crucial for network performance, though there are some cards which are similar to the desktop stuff. If network perf isn't an issue for you now I'd not worry too much about it.
* Rack systems are nice, but unless you've got a rack and other rack equipment, in an area you can close off, they're a pain. The fans are often loud due to being small and high RPM, and if you need to power things off and move them around, it means taking whatever is on top (monitor, books, other systems) off (whereas taking the side panel off a tower is fairly straightforward).
* See if you can find a tower with many external 5.25 bays. You can then use something like this to adapt it as hotswap, if you want: link to product. The alternative
* You'll need SATA expansion above and beyond what the board has if you're going to fill the chassis. (The next-generation Sandybridge-E boards may offer this soon, reportedly having up to 10 SATA ports - but that doesn't exist now, and it's sure to demand a premium.) Don't use the Supermicro AOC cards, they've got shit Marvell controllers. Look at picking up some older LSI-based Intel or IBM SAS cards with SFF8087 breakouts for about the same price ($100-125/ea) supporting up to 8 disks/ea.
* Filesystems: I like to have an independent root and keep my storage on something else. Eg. two disks in a mirror and the others in arrays.
* I am a big fan of mdraid on Linux, and hate most hardware RAID implementations. MDRAID works well and is easily managed, enabling you to reassemble the arrays on any other hardware you've got available. ext4 still has its problems, as I understand it, but that's why we have backups. I've had good success with xfs and have been personally using it since around 2000 with good success. Some people like lvm, but I'm personally not a fan due to performance and management headache ( as well as seeing it break entirely too many times and how it encourages poor planning).
* H.264 with MP3 audio sounds like a good bet to me. Alternative to the MKV container is the MP4 container, which has lower CPU overhead for playback and is considered more compatible (eg. you can use it on Apple crap), but there's generally not a necessary reason for MP4. MKV can be repackaged into an MP4 fairly quickly (a minute or two for a full movie), though the reverse is not true (MKV has more b-frame data, amongst other things).

Ditto. I have a dual core Atom setup on my mediacenter ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500036 ), which also doubles as a server for files, backups, HTTP, FTP and Deluge. I can run XBMC on top of that and never had any performance issue whatsoever.

I am currently doing something similar. I decided to go with a sas controller. http://www.servethehome.com/intel-sasuc8i-lsi-lsi-sas3081er-lsi-1068e-based-raid-controller-review/ this will get me 8 drives now, plus ability to add in the sas expander and easily go to 24 drives and more. Im in a case that can do 8 internal drives (plus a 4 in 3 if i choose) for now, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146075 and will probably move to a norco case when i need to expand. something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038 as far as fileformats, i say go with what works for you. handbrake and mkv do well for me. server software, i am currently trying to decide between ubuntu/centos or freenas. freenas will let me run from a flashdrive, the others will be easy to do bittorrent, LAMP stack, and run GUI and use file server to actually play movies to the tv. went with a gigabyte mobo and an i3, so it can decode even a 10gb movie and keep up on the bitrate just fine. it mostly just comes down to personal choice at this point, both would work well. just please consider staying away from the windows home server stuff, to many quirks for me. mobo/cpu ram. is a matter of choice. a 6 core phenom in a server chassis in the garage with proper ventilation should do just fine. or an i3/i5. although a friend of mine has windows 7 on computer near his tv, and he says handbrake refuses to work with the i3. but it worked fine when i had it with ubuntu ymmv. at that point it is just a matter how much do you want to spend, how long to wait for the recodes. unles you wanted to spend with abandon, then maybe a supermicro mobo with ipmi or something like a dell and a DRAC card "might" be worth it, since it might live in a closet or garage.

I am currently doing something similar. I decided to go with a sas controller. http://www.servethehome.com/intel-sasuc8i-lsi-lsi-sas3081er-lsi-1068e-based-raid-controller-review/ this will get me 8 drives now, plus ability to add in the sas expander and easily go to 24 drives and more. Im in a case that can do 8 internal drives (plus a 4 in 3 if i choose) for now, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146075 and will probably move to a norco case when i need to expand. something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038 as far as fileformats, i say go with what works for you. handbrake and mkv do well for me. server software, i am currently trying to decide between ubuntu/centos or freenas. freenas will let me run from a flashdrive, the others will be easy to do bittorrent, LAMP stack, and run GUI and use file server to actually play movies to the tv. went with a gigabyte mobo and an i3, so it can decode even a 10gb movie and keep up on the bitrate just fine. it mostly just comes down to personal choice at this point, both would work well. just please consider staying away from the windows home server stuff, to many quirks for me. mobo/cpu ram. is a matter of choice. a 6 core phenom in a server chassis in the garage with proper ventilation should do just fine. or an i3/i5. although a friend of mine has windows 7 on computer near his tv, and he says handbrake refuses to work with the i3. but it worked fine when i had it with ubuntu ymmv. at that point it is just a matter how much do you want to spend, how long to wait for the recodes. unles you wanted to spend with abandon, then maybe a supermicro mobo with ipmi or something like a dell and a DRAC card "might" be worth it, since it might live in a closet or garage.

useing software raid is ok most boards have about 6 ports so if you want like 10 then maybe a x4 or better pci-e card may be needed.

Or, get an actual server board (this is gonna be a server, right?), like this one. That's six SATA ports and 8 SAS ports. If you flash the SAS ROM to the "no-RAID" version, the controller is recognized natively by Linux. In addition, you get lots of PCIe connectivity, a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports, and IPMI (allowing remote power cycle).

Then, find a full-tower case with lots of 5-1/4" drive bays, and add hot swap bays. There are smaller versions, as well...just budget what you need for drives.

I use the motherboard I referenced along with an add-on 8-port SATA card (anything supported by Linux would be fine) and two of the drive bays for ten 2TB drives in RAID-10. I boot Fedora off a pair of SSDs in RAID-1 and also have four 2-1/2" 750GB drives in RAID-10. The 10TB array serves iSCSI over 10Gbit Ethernet to ESX systems that hold all my VMs, with the 1.5TB array as local and NFS storage. There's still PCIe slots available if you need more controller cards.

With this setup, the VMs are how everything is accessed, so you can pick whatever OS you want to face client machines.