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Windows 8 To Include Built-in Reset, Refresh
MrSeb writes "Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, will provide push-button Reset and Refresh in Windows 8. Reset will restore a Windows 8 PC to its stock, fresh-from-the-factory state; Refresh will reinstall Windows 8, but keep your documents and installed Metro apps in tact. For the power users, Windows 8 will include a new tool called recimg.exe, which allows you to create a hard drive image that Refresh will use (you can install all of your Desktop apps, tweak all your settings, run recimg.exe... and then, when you Refresh, you'll be handed a clean, ready-to-go computer). Reset and Refresh are obviously tablety features that Windows 8 will need to compete against iOS and Android — but considering Windows' malware magnetism and the number of times I've had to schlep over to my mother's house with a Windows CD... these features should be very welcome on the desktop, too."
Next step is to have Windows 8.5 just auto-refresh every few months since Microsoft seems to assume you'll be doing it any how.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
It's just an excuse to trash grub ( linux) installations over and over.
How long until viruses inject themselves into this recovery image and get "refreshed" onto the new install?
Geeks don't grock information, they grep it.
"these features should be very welcome on the desktop, too."
Yeah, until someone writes a malware which cracks open the stored image file and inserts itself. You can reset your infection with the rest of Windows!
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Once malware developers get their hands on this, they'll be sure to find a way to infect the process such that their stuff gets "reset" and "refreshed" along with everything else.
I doubt it will be that useful to evade the really nasty malware, but at least it will provide an easy way for someone to "go back to step 1" with their computer after they ruined it all by themselves... or even someone who wishes to give it to a friend/family member/goodwill for recycling.
I suspect one of the main reason people throw away computers after they buy a new one, rather than recycle it, is because they're afraid someone else will see all their porn and/or "sensitive documents" that might still be hidden on the machine.
...about the innate instability of an OS, that they need buttons to reset everything back to bare metal
What's up with one touch factory reset? Is it good or is it whack?
They're just doing the same thing Dell and other distributors have been doing for the past couple of years?
Oh yeah.
... you insensitive clod. It is part of increased stability in Win8. "Look, I have managed to reset this 6 times in just 5 minutes and it is still working." What I want to see is a big button, right next to the windows logo labeled: "Convert to DRM"
Could the submission be any snarkier? Malware is already a big problem on Android. I also think people underestimate Windows 8--as Google starts offering its own phones and tablets, angered Android licensees may be swayed toward putting Windows 8 on their devices. I just think you should never dismiss Microsoft.
"Sufferin' succotash."
You can already restore Windows to a previous state.
...with one line of bash script. On my XP machine, there are three partitions: for Windows, software, and documents (Think /bin, /usr, /home) The Linux side has a zip archive of the windows partition. When I want to restore WIndows, I boot into Linux and run unzip and just overwrite the whole partition.
instead of fixing the relevant issue it gets built in backup/snapshot ?
disastrously destructive buttons? Yeah, that's what we all need, a button you can push that destroys all your data. Sort of like having the big red button to launch the nukes right next to the big red light switch button.
An ignore feature would be sufficient for that. It should also include an option to ignore dups.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Sounds useful, as I currently keep them in old mayonnaise jars.
will reinstall Windows 8, but keep your documents and installed Metro apps in tact
I've traced almost all of my Windows desktop performance problems back to the registry getting out of tact.
Are there any actual human editors involved in the publishing process, here?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
What I'd like to see is OS on a chip.
Two stages - Core OS chip so is need to absolutely 100% load a factory image, that is it. No ability to write to this chip at all.
Secondary chip - More like a bios chip. Can be modified to load patches kernels etc. So if you've "updated" windows, it flashes it with the updates which load ontop of the core chip. Still could be very fast.
Then your hard drive loads all third party software / addons / documents.
I think it'd be exceptionally fast, not perfect but a much more secure setup (As you can flash the modded update chip or reset it to factor using the core chip)
and a marvel in technology.
... when you design your OS to require frequent re-installation.
Of course there will be no way that malware could ever alter the saved images ... no way ... right? ... uh ... right? ... oh wait! There it is, it just popped up a message and said I don't need to insert the DVD afterall.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Then, after a bit, it hit me how these features really are only necessary due to an antiquated, OS model that would be better served with a complete and total overhaul. OS X might not be for everyone, but the reliance on .plist files seems to work much better in the long run than a complicated mess like the registry often becomes.
Microsoft should force you to burn the image onto DVD's or format then load onto a USB flash drive. The reset image should never be stored locally. PERIOD.
After all, the only reason people buy a new PC these days is when the old one runs so slow from bloatware, adware, and crapware the user usually installs?
You might argue that Microsoft is set to destroy the entire tech industry if people won't buy new PC's.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Selling recovery discs for retail-bought machines (either pre-made discs from the manufacturer or discs produced from the recovery partition on the customer's machine before they take it home) is a way retailers and OEMs add value to their low margin hardware sales. Some discs from manufacturers cost up to £30, with a similar cost for the burning-the-recovery-partition-to-DVDs service from retailers in the UK like PC World and Comet. Having a reset/refresh button in Windows 8 will all but eliminate this extra margin stream. It'll be interesting to see what retailers do to make up for this loss.
"I had a problem with my PC so I hit the Reset option and Windows is working again but I can't find any of my documents..."
When storing off images of "fresh" installs, a few hardware changes here and seventy-two Windows security updates there still make recovery a long process. Blowing away to factory works well on a tablet or phone because the hardware doesn't change, and the reset bases itself on the currently-installed version of the OS.
If Reset and Refresh incorporates security patches as they are applied I suppose things would be a little easier.
Then its subject to corruption/infection. Also when your drive dies, you are still up the creek without recovery disks.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Effectively this means Microsoft has no confidence in its own engineering capabilities or its processes that guide third-party software developers. Everyone who's surprised, get out of your office chair right now and break dance on your head in the aisle.
It would be cool if Linux could read the restore partition, identify the hardware from the stored data, configure it self with the parameters that windows has stored in the refresh image, then build a custom refresh image from the data.
Then we have one button refresh to a Linux based system! No muss, no fuss, simple install at the push of a button.
But I bet Microsoft designs the image in such a way as to encrypt it so that Linux can not do it.
Ah... The perfect dream of Linux on every device. When Windows is marginalized, there will be no more viruses, no more malware, no incompatibilities, no driver issues, no crashes, just eternal harmony and goodness. Everything will be perfect because our religious views will have been vindicated and all will accept the One True OS. Only then will users suddenly all become geniuses that never fall prey to social engineering, laziness, or ignorance when operating a computer.
The important thing to remember, so that we can hasten the Linux rapture, is to always speak of Micro$oft/Windoze in outrageous hyperbole, so that the unwashed, disinterested masses just trying to accomplish something with their computers, will have their eyes opened to humanity's greatest struggle and join the cause.
Tux be praised! Amen.
What's up with the respectful, reverent Microsoft logo? I want my Borg Gates back!
sig: sauer
If this works like it sounds this sounds like a really cool idea!
I find myself a little jaded that I'm looking forward to this feature - so far one of the only good things to come out of Win8
schlep over to my mother's house with a Windows CD... these features should be very welcome on the desktop
I feel your pain. I quit having to schlep over to my mother's house every few months to reload/clean Windows when I installed Ubuntu on her computer 3 or so years ago. She even upgrades the thing herself now. I still have to schlep over there once in a blue moon but no where near every 3 months to re-image her computer every time she clicks on some stupid scam online. She did call me once after I installed Ubuntu to tell me her computer was infected but it was a Windows Exporer window that popped up "how can that be?" She don't have Windows Exporer. It was simply a flash video of an exporer window showing a fake virus scan in her Firefox on Ubuntu. She tried to click the download now button and the exe downloaded but failed to run on Ubuntu.
'Cause I hate it when my Metro apps get out of tact.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
Sad that it's necessary.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
"— but considering Windows' malware magnetism and the number of times I've had to schlep over to my mother's house with a Windows CD..."
Yeah, been there and done the windows reload routine with my kids PCs... But I setup my mother's box with Linux and I only reloaded when the hardware broke and I got her a new PC... She never knew Window$ and never had the grief.
will never allow a consumer to Reset their computer to 'factory settings' unless it is their factory settings, will all the shovelware and 30-day trial bullshit reinstalled.
Given that, other than pushing a button instead of throwing a Dell/HP/Gateway restore disc in the drive, this 'Reset' feature is not a dimes worth of difference.
Documents and Settings is backed up, it wipes your computer, does a new Windows install, and then downloads apps from the Windows App Store again. Any apps (and potentially settings, save games, etc) from apps outside the App Store are wiped.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I wonder if Microsoft will be smart enough to add a image checksum and ECC to the image and a way to use it from the cd/dvd/usb media windows will come on.
Sandboxed installation.
System shouldn't give UAC adiminstrator permissions to everything that needs to install. Most applications don't need ability to mess up with the system - they just need a directory to put their stuff, and a few registry entries to point to the msi file (which btw. have a habit of wasting disk space), add shell extensions, MIME and start menu/ deskto entries. 99% of them have no excuse for adding tons of keys to the registry, installing rootkit-esque copy-protection or putting files into Windows (system) directory - there should btw. be a dedicated "system" dir for addons and development. Linux organizes files a lot better, but it suffers from fragmentation of distributions - a completely different problem.
I'm sure that MS would do something similar if they knew how abusive Windows applications(devs) would be, and how fundamentally vulnerable would Windows be to malware.
Of course, this approach also requires OS which doesn't have hopeless amount of priviledge escalation or local user DDOS-ing explits, and not a lot of OS-es ironed that out (Linux has a rich history of priviledge escalation exploits as well).
There is one app that I use, Sandboxie, but we need something that still integrates the app properly into the system and doesn't keep them in their own world.
For those of us who aren't full-time Windows users, could someone please explain how the described "Refresh" feature is different than the current ability to go back to a Restore Point? My (possibly limited) understanding is that you can create a Restore Point whenever you want, and it saves the state of your Windows OS install. You can then go back to any previous Restore Point, and it will undo registry settings and whatever, without touching your documents. How is that different from this "new' Refresh?
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Can impart wisdom and truth
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Dell, in its "infinite wisdom", have been providing both of these restore options for years now on a separate recovery partition. I am only personally familiar with Dell's, but I'm sure that other makers offer something similar. I still prefer a physical CD/DVD rather than a recovery partition approach... but other than that, I haven't heard much complaining over the past few years about this kind of functionality.
Microsoft takes an established third-party utility, and bundles something similar within Windows itself (as they do with practically every release)... and NOW this is suddenly a horrible idea and everyone is full of complaints? Hey, I'm hardly a Microsoft fanboy, but this is just childish. Where have the posts and the complaints about Dell been for the past few years?
ntfsclone for Windows...
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
I think this could become the most used feature since Solitaire!
I hope this comment is well received... I could have moderated instead!
Persecutors will be violated!
Why not just run it in a VM? I've been doing this for quite a while with: WinXP, Vista, and now Win7; all running as VMware VMs on a Linux base. I just snapshot the Windows VM after the initial install.and again after it's fully configured. If (when) the image gets itself honked up, I just restore one of the snapshots and I'm back to a known good image.
I wouldn't worry about this for malware because sysprep already has this functionality and has always been accessible.
stephen
without all the crapware? Now that would actually be useful.
What's archived is the raw partition, not a mounted file system.
zip whaterver
As another poster pointed out, windows built in tools are total crap.
The first thing I did, when I got my new hp laptop, about about a year ago, was try to make an image with those built-in tools. It ran for hours, and I got all kinds of error.
Even if things seemed to go smoothly, how do you know if tyou have a good image? If you try to install the image, and something goes wrong, you are completely SOL. For that reason, I doubt many people try their new image until they really need it. If it doesn't work, you are completely screwed.
...'And monkeys might fly out of my butt' to quote Mike Myers
Why was this modded down? âoeIntactâ is One Word http://www.dailywritingtips.com/intact-is-one-word/
Reset will restore a Windows 8 PC to its stock, fresh-from-the-factory state
-Of course, this is the same as any OEM's factory restore or reinstalling it yourself, you just don't need a disc anymore (I imagine) and it can probably be done through startup repair.
Refresh will reinstall Windows 8, but keep your documents and installed Metro apps in tact
-This is known as an in-place upgrade; in XP, this could be done from outside windows, but that was removed in Vista/7 (because Microsoft are jerks - it almost always worked); you can put in a windows disc (as long as it's the same or newer SP and version of windows as you have installed) and perform an upgrade to it, as long as your computer boots to the desktop, for XP, Vista, and 7.
Sounds exactly like what he was just saying about general purpose computing ....
Can't there be a viable middle-ground though? Why is it always framed as a free and open "general purpose" system, vs. a walled-garden model?
All many of us desire is a full-blown mainstream OS that's hardened enough against malware and virus threats so things like "clicking the wrong ad banner" on some website aren't enough to take the system down.
If users flock to walled gardens with locked down boot-loaders, it's not really the fault of the "computer-savvy user" who cast blame on them, so much as it's a failure of the developers of said mainstream OS's to succeed in meeting these requirements.
What Microsoft should be doing is making their OS more resilliant to cruft and attacks. Instead they do the opposite, throw in the towel before the game even started and just begin anew whenever anything goes wrong. I am not one bit helped by having to wipe my computer because the software on it was shite to begin with. The problem is not that reloading Windows is hard, its that it sucks so bad i have to do it at all.
Thankfully the cloud has taken off so much today that you can manage perfectly with a non Windows gadget. By the time Windows 8 comes out im not so sure people are that interested in a Windows PC any longer. Looking at current PC sales, that very much seems to be the case.
HTTP/1.1 400
"For the power users, Windows 8 will include a new tool called recimg.exe, which allows you to create a hard drive image that Refresh will use (you can install all of your Desktop apps, tweak all your settings, run recimg.exe... and then, when you Refresh, you'll be handed a clean, ready-to-go computer)". Whoa, just like we could in those distant days of Windows 3.1!!
I've been using this feature for years.. It's called ghost. Setup $family_member's computer, ghost the drive. In a few months when they bitch about how slow their "crappy" computer is, copy their pictures/music/docs over to an external drive and ghost the image back. It's that easy and most of the time you get lunch or dinner as a thank you.
--- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
but in XP you need to manually install some updates / run the script file that fixes windows update as the left over parts did not get cleared out by doing the repair install.
Why did they have to get rid of repair install in vista?
System / Administration / Computer Janitor:
Clean up a system so it's more like a freshly installed one.
Could be a handy feature. In fact, I used it for the first time inside a VM the other day to clean up from a slew of packages I'd installed whilst trying to compile ffmpeg + x264 + mp3, etc.
How long it will be before this gets exploited like System Restore does.
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millions of users have known for many years- you have to reinstall the OS a couple times a year to keep things working. Now if they'd really get in touch with users they'd put a bootable linux in the CMOS memory so that you can still access your stuff even when Windows isn't working. Wait, didn't ASUS already do that?
Next thing you know, we will be using recovery disks to re-install the pre-installed software because it was corrupted.
Mark
If it works like Android, crapware is included.
Rethinking email
"Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, will provide push-button Reset and Refresh in Windows 8"
You mean like Lenovo One Button Restore
"Windows 8 will include a new tool called recimg.exe, which allows you to create a hard drive image that Refresh will use"
You mean similar to CloneZilla?
They are determined to alienate and annoy every single corner of their market, and it will be a fantastic thing for everyone else.
He begins by saying "Microsoft, in his infinite wisdom", then ends by "these features should be very welcome on the desktop, too"
So wait, does think Microsoft did the right thing or not?
If someone can't protect a Windows PC, the have no business pretending they know what they're doing.
How soon before malware makes use of this image feature to embed itself?
A few years ago MS included a feature to keep backups of certain system files and copy them back if they got damaged, lots of malware makes use of this feature to make it harder to remove.
I can see it now, users get into the habit of hitting reset when they get infected, so malware inserts itself into the reset image and users are still screwed.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Amazing. I remember imaging every single family member (mother, father, aunt, nephew, you-name-it) and every single customer's freshly re-installed Windows 95/98 and then XP using Ghost... Wwwwaaaayyyy before Norton was even thinking about acquiring Ghost.
These OSes would be full-of-malware so often that at the first complaint I'd shoot: re-imaging or I never take care of your computer again. I'd install Windows *once* (at the first sign of trouble), from official CDs without any network plugged and then immediately image. Then I'd install official drivers. Then I'd configure the network and install all the updates and re-ghost. etc.
Saved my arse so many times. Simply installing *drivers* could break the install. That's how bad that OS is (non-withstanding all the astoturfing M$ shills around /. lately).
I think things are much, much worse now, where malware are way more intelligent and hiding themselves *and* preventing obvious malware from being installed, ending up with a lot of Windows users thinking that "I never clicked on an add, so I'm safe". I pitty them.
As for my family and customers, now it's simpler: "you buy a Mac or I don't ever do business with you again".
Works great!
: )
SUSE has it with BTFRS support, Fedora will have it in May, with it's inclusion of BTFRS support. So what is so special? I guess it is the fact that with the multitude of different hardware platforms, what will work on system x will not work on system y due to either hardware or different pre-requisites or co-requisites. This will be true for MS as well as for Linux, as newer systems may not be Intel based.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
What's gonna stop Malware from pressing these buttons itself after infecting your "pure" partition? What's gonna stop a remote user with a "backdoor" from hitting reset on your box after installing its control software on your "pure" partition? This sounds like a really bad idea.
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... Two partitions, 1. OS; 2. Data. Then I use Norton Ghost to save the OS partition to the data partition. Simples.
I work here -- http://theparkrowdentalpractice.co.uk no, really, I do.
So Microsoft just made it easier to extend my copy over and over again?