Microsoft Barring Certain Staff From Buying Macs, iPads?

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Microsoft Barring Certain Staff From Buying Macs, iPads?

Posted by samzenpus on Wednesday March 21, 2012 @06:34AM from the no-apple-for-you dept.

mr100percent writes "Microsoft has reportedly moved to prohibit employees in its Sales, Marketing, Services, IT, and Operations Group (SMSG) from using company funds to purchase any products produced by Apple. The company had already barred staffers from using expense allocations for competing smartphone platforms, however the new guidelines explicitly note that Macs and iPads have been added to the list. 'Within SMSG we are putting in place a new policy that says that Apple products (Mac & iPad) should not be purchased with company funds,' an alleged letter distributed to staff reads."

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Barring? by bananaquackmoo · 2012-03-21 06:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

Barring and "should not be purchased with company funds" are two entirely different things.
1. Re:Barring? by Skapare · 2012-03-21 06:39 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  This only says not to buy those things with company money. IOW, Microsoft doesn't want its own company money to be supporting Apple and other competitors. It is not applicable for staff buying them for personal use.
  Any company is perfectly within their rights to specify how the company money is spent.
  
  --
  now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
2. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:41 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  More to the point, Microsoft has always tried (AFAIK) to eat its own dogfood, so this seems to be simply an extension of that as opposed to any particular malice.
3. Re:Barring? by firex726 · 2012-03-21 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  Plus most employees with an expense account, probably have enough of a salary to buy one on their own anyways.
  First level rep in TS who answers your phone call, does not have an expense account.
  VP of Operations who fly's to a different city on a regular basis, does have one.
4. Re:Barring? by cpu6502 · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  This is more than just money..... it's selling to the customer. Wouldn't it look bad if a Microsoft employee came to your company to demo a new product, and they whipped-out their Apple Macbook to give the presentation? Or even less obvious... the MS presenter spends the lunchbreak listening to an iPod. It sends the wrong message that "Yeah I work for Microsoft but I really prefer Apple."
  Telling sales staff to not buy Apple (and instead use Microsoft products as frequently as possible), is the same as a store giving employees 40% off if they buy and wear the store's goods. It shows that the employee not only sells but also uses the product day-to-day.
  
  --
  My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
5. Re:Barring? by hsmith · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Why would MS want any sales or support staff, which is customer facing, to be using Apple or Google products in front of customers?
  
  It makes perfect sense, I don't see why it is news.
6. Re:Barring? by project5117 · 2012-03-21 06:57 · Score: 2
  
  A mod point, a mod point, a kingdom for a mod point!
  Thank you for pointing out the important distinction that this request was for *sales* staff purchases with company funds. There's no indication in the summary that other divisions were affected by this request. Here's to you get to +5 Insightful quick!
7. Re:Barring? by f3rret · 2012-03-21 07:00 · Score: 2
  
  Barring and "should not be purchased with company funds" are two entirely different things.
  Yeah oddly enough I've no problem with this. It's Microsoft's money, they get to make the rules.
  
  --
  Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
8. Re:Barring? by spd_rcr · 2012-03-21 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if Apple has a similar policy, although you can bet they have Microsoft Office installed everywhere they need people to be productive.
  
  --
  - tensions in our lives that are attacking our minds, unite themselves together to make our consciousness blind - op'ivy
9. Re:Barring? by way2trivial · 2012-03-21 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  'cause they sell stuff designed to run on an apple OS? including powerpoint?
  including tons of apps on the itunes store?
  
  --
  every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
10. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:16 · Score: 0, Redundant
  
  The New York Times begs to differ, if the object to be purchased is birth control.
11. Re:Barring? by need4mospd · 2012-03-21 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  IOW, Microsoft doesn't want its own company money to be supporting Apple and other competitors.
  But the memo doesn't mention anything about other competitors, just Apple.
  So apparently it's fine to show up to work with a Sansa MP3 player, Blackberry Playbook, and an Android smartphone.
12. Re:Barring? by Jon_Hanson · 2012-03-21 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft makes Office for the Mac. They could even be running Windows on a Mac as well.
13. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  Absolutely. Though privately, there's a case to be made for having them be very familiar with Apple products in general. When your rival makes superior products, you'd best be intimately familiar with why they're superior.
  Passing familiarity get's you knock-off features. Really understanding what's better gives you a prayer at competing. This goes for both your engineers and the customer facing staff that have to field, "why would I want to carry your product when Apple's is better".
  But yes, they probably shouldn't be buying them on company money to show them off in front of customers.
14. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:25 · Score: 0, Informative
  
  always, for definitions of always that only encompass sufficiently short time periods.
  M$ used Sun servers + sendmail for internal email, until a customer who tried to scale exchange beyond a few users asked them how they were managing to scale exchange for Microsoft's internal mail, and M$ had to answer, they didn't use exchange at M$.
  It was only after the above incident, that M$ made any effort to "eat their own dogfood," and it was as painful for them as it was for all their customers.
  M$ bought hotmail, and tried to switch to M$ servers from Sun. They had a couple week long outage where they discovered that even more windows hosts on faster hardware could not scale to the load. They switched back to Sun hardware and Solaris for hotmail, and it was a long time before they tried to migrate to Windows again.
15. Re:Barring? by rainmouse · 2012-03-21 07:26 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  And also worth considering is that a typical mac product costs an awful lot more. It makes simple business sense. Ever seen data entry staff sitting in rows on iPads? No of course not.
16. Re:Barring? by Pokermike · 2012-03-21 07:29 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  is the same as a store giving employees 40% off if they buy and wear the store's goods
  In fact, it could be worse -- MS is paying for the equipment. Most clothing retailers require employees to wear the company's clothes while at work and to purchase said clothing with their own money (discounted, of course).
17. Re:Barring? by ericloewe · 2012-03-21 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but they ended up giving Apple free money for OS X
18. Re:Barring? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-03-21 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it look bad if a Microsoft employee came to your company to demo a new product, and they whipped-out their Apple Macbook to give the presentation?
  It wouldn't if the Macbook ran Windows 7. :)
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
19. Re:Barring? by 0100010001010011 · 2012-03-21 07:31 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I've had a dog and I've owned Microsoft products. I'm not sure if "eating its own dog food" is the correct analogy.
20. Re:Barring? by semi-extrinsic · 2012-03-21 07:40 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Anyone who needs Office to be productive is useless. What you need is gvim (or notepad++ if you are too retarded to learn a good editor), a good VCS, and a decent C or FORTRAN compiler. If all IT companies sacked all employees that couldn't understand a Makefile, we would all be better off. And as a bonus: unless you're looking at solving nonlinear coupled PDEs, you'll get enough speed from gcc or gfortran, so all your tools are free!
  
  --
  for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
21. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:45 · Score: 0
  
  Someone is buying birth control with their expense account?
22. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  Sometimes eating your own dog food can kill you.
23. Re:Barring? by HideyoshiJP · 2012-03-21 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  Eh, most enterprise desktop hardware with all the fancy management/security things (MEI, TPM, etc) can easily run as much as a Mac, especially if you add the good warranty. The advantage, though, is having easy to fix/swap hardware and docking options when it comes to laptops. Good luck with those Dell touchpads, though. I've never had good luck with those.
24. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:54 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Screw you and your God damned "logic." I hate MS and all they stand for, so this is an egregious exercise in corporate favoritism/fascism. Then again I do not like Apple either so it is not so bad. Wait, I also no longer like google. Fuck it, I need a beer.
25. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:57 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  What you need is gvim, vcs, and a compiler
  I have me a hammer! I sure do see a lot of nails!
26. Re:Barring? by mosb1000 · 2012-03-21 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  It is because no sensible person would eat dog food simply because their company makes it.
27. Re:Barring? by pclminion · 2012-03-21 07:58 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Wouldn't it look bad if a Microsoft employee came to your company to demo a new product, and they whipped-out their Apple Macbook to give the presentation?
  Wouldn't it look bad if a VP dropped in on your internal product demo and asked "So how does this compare to that Apple shit that we're trying to compete with" and you have to say "I have no idea since I'm not allowed to buy a fucking Mac to make the comparison?"
28. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:59 · Score: 0
  
  Someone is buying Apple-brand birth control? Is it extra shiny? Is it rectangular with rounded corners?
29. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:00 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  And also worth considering is that a typical mac product costs an awful lot more.
  
  No its doesnt, stop this myth. Our Dell laptops are almost 200 dollars more expensive than a like equipped Macbook Pro. The cost significance is so great that we are thinking of dropping Dells all together and moving to Macbook Airs for both PC AND Mac users because even with Win7 licensing costs added, its STILL cheaper to buy a 1 grand MacBook Air over a like model Dell.
  
  Ever seen data entry staff sitting in rows on iPads? No of course not.
  You bet your ass I have seen 60 Sales and Marketing staffers using iPads in the field, and we are starting to move 500 positions who DONT need a laptop or desktop to using iPads running Citrix within the next 2 years.
  So in conclusion, you dont know jack about how iPads are being used in big business.
30. Re:Barring? by alphax45 · 2012-03-21 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  Good way to get on the managers bad side...
  
  --
  K Man
31. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:01 · Score: 0
  
  they will male exception for their graphic artist, most if not ALL graphic students work with MAC computer adn apple software. Some may use the windows version, but if you want these types in your business, they'll have to work with what they know.
32. Re:Barring? by baka_toroi · 2012-03-21 08:05 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I'm not trying to be offensive, but stop typing "M$". You are not 15 years old, are you? Also, this isn't 1997 anymore.
33. Re:Barring? by Gilmoure · 2012-03-21 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly! They should be using Windows tablets!
  
  --
  I drank what? -- Socrates
34. Re:Barring? by Gilmoure · 2012-03-21 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  Most major breweries in the U.S. (even Guinness - *SOB*) are owned and operated from overseas. Brew your own!
  
  --
  I drank what? -- Socrates
35. Re:Barring? by moronoxyd · 2012-03-21 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  It still would, because most customers or partners would only see the Apple logo and not what OS was running.
36. Re:Barring? by jdgeorge · 2012-03-21 08:11 · Score: 0
  
  You're going for +6, Hilarious, right?
  The subtext, as I read it, is: "Open/Libre office suck compared to MS Office". My experience agrees with this (and I use non-MS office products for work), but for home use I push Google docs because it's a reliable lowest common denominator.
37. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:11 · Score: 0
  
  You bet your ass I have seen 60 Sales and Marketing staffers using iPads in the field, and we are starting to move 500 positions who DONT need a laptop or desktop to using iPads running Citrix within the next 2 years. So in conclusion, you dont know jack about how iPads are being used in big business.
  Actually, I have watched C-level folks that insisted on using iPads instead of laptops drag many meetings to a near-standstill while trying to take notes with the damned things. We made sure they had the latest s/w installed, proper support (much more than non C-level folks had access to) and that they were trained, too. They would have been more productive using these things to beat messages on the meeting room desks in morse code to their assistants.
38. Re:Barring? by cayenne8 · 2012-03-21 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it look bad if a Microsoft employee came to your company to demo a new product, and they whipped-out their Apple Macbook to give the presentation?
  Not really...Microsoft is not a hardware company, they are a software company.
  I'd see nothing wrong with someone whipping out an Apple Macbook, running VMWare fusion or Parallels...so they could run windows on there....in fact, it might show how well MS stuff runs on 'most any hardware platform on sell'.
  I mean, there is not MS branded computer out there....but saying your MS stuff would run on Dell, HP, Apple and any thing else hardware might be a good selling point?
  
  --
  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
39. Re:Barring? by baldrad · 2012-03-21 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  still doesn't make sense... Eating its own dog food, means that it eats its on product... im sure if a dog made dog food they would eat it...
40. Re:Barring? by jdgeorge · 2012-03-21 08:15 · Score: 2
  
  The point is, Microsoft's Win8 strategy will be, at least in part, a direct competitor to Apple's iOS strategy.
  The MS sales staff need to use, understand, and sell Microsoft first and foremost.
41. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  Apple isn't in the business of selling OSX. Upgrades to new versions now cost less than $30, and I wouldn't be shocked if that eventually drops to $0.
42. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  "Eh, most enterprise desktop hardware with all the fancy management/security things (MEI, TPM, etc) can easily run as much as a Mac, especially if you add the good warranty"
  Warranties aren't a problem for enterprise. They get excellent support from most of the PC makers already. I work in a company that has Dell support technicians on premises at all times, is that good enough support?
43. Re:Barring? by spire3661 · 2012-03-21 08:19 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Its appropriate for the time period his story is set in.
  
  --
  Good-bye
44. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  Having worked for a "store" that gave us the option of the store's branded clothes or dress clothes, I'd take the cheap store-brand clothes, but only if the company paid for it. Otherwise I'm wearing what I have.
  From Microsoft's POV, I think what's going on is to keep the sales/marketing people from using Apple or paying for Apple equipment, especially since there are computers, phones, and potentially tablets available that run the company's OS.
  That said, I'd leave the Microsoft toys at work and go home to my Apple toys if that was what I was being forced to do. I imagine the software developers get to use whatever toys they want because it would be illegal otherwise (Oh yeah, let's develop Office for the Mac, iPad, etc but in order to do so without buying any Apple Kit we have to steal OSX and install it on a vanilla PC via VMware or something like that.)
  Or like, have their own cross-compiler.
45. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:23 · Score: 0
  
  Someone is buying Apple-brand birth control? Is it extra shiny? Is it rectangular with rounded corners?
  No wonder that slut Fluke spends $1 000 a year on it when non-rich women can get it in Wal-mart for $100 a year.
46. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:25 · Score: 0
  
  Free money? You mean they didn't deliver the goods? Or that the money in some way was "easier" than what Microsoft gets for every laptop sold, no matter what their buyer actually might want to use?
47. Re:Barring? by meloneg · 2012-03-21 08:28 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Most major breweries in the U.S. (even Guinness - *SOB*) are owned and operated from overseas. Brew your own!
  This may be one of the most (unintentionally?) funny things I've ever read on /. No kidding? A famous UK brand isn't US-owned? Wow?
48. Re:Barring? by History's+Coming+To · 2012-03-21 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Since my mod points won't give you a +6 Insightful, please accept my complete agreement. Virtually a non-story, and I'm no fan of MS.
  
  --
  Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
49. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  Guinness was invented in 1759 in Ireland, which was then under English control. The Guinness brewery is part of the Diageo empire which is headquartered in England. So not much has changed there.
50. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:33 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  sorry but M$ neds to be referred to as M$ even though they are poor now.
  just so we remember what an asshole of a company M$ is. not because we are 15.
51. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:33 · Score: 0
  
  Brew your own!
  Anarchist ! Free-thinker! Obama-Lover! You're destroying jobs!
52. Re:Barring? by baka_toroi · 2012-03-21 08:35 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Do you REALLY think we need to be reminded? Especially on Slashdot, of all places...
53. Re:Barring? by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2012-03-21 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  That's odd, I always associated Linux with birth control.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
54. Re:Barring? by mosb1000 · 2012-03-21 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  The idea is that Microsoft makes a product that is really only fit for dogs (when compared with the alternatives). Developers know better, but the businesses Microsoft sells to don't know the difference and will take whatever Microsoft sells (like dogs). This was more true in the past, but it's not so true today.
55. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  So, the demo isnt shown, just the outside of the computer?
56. Re:Barring? by GauteL · 2012-03-21 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  It's not that it's not perfectly logical. It is a sound policy.
  It is, however, a little bit embarrassing that they've had to spell this out like this.
  There are Microsoft employees that require apple products though. After all, Microsoft supports OSX for some of their software, and they surely have to test some of their websites on mobile safari. Microsoft isn't big enough online to ignore the big players.
57. Re:Barring? by lightenergy · 2012-03-21 08:50 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I think that M$ is still very appropriate. I have to spend a small pile of cash on their trash every year and it's pretty clear from the quality of their products that, for the most part, all they care about is the money. There are bugs in Office that have been there probably more than a decade. They know about them and even put useless suggestions on their website about how to work around them but the last thing they will do is care enough to fix them. Scoring your response as a (5, Insightful) is the real outrage. slashdot has gone into the toilet with its current rating system. I don't have suggestions for anything better though. The rating system that they had before was garbage too.
58. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:51 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Um, this isn't anywhere close to the truth. MS used an in-house developed Xenix-based mail system internally prior to the release of Exchange 4.0 (the first version of exchange, and a followup to MSMail 3.0). Starting in the last phase before release and continuing for a few months or so ITG did a phased migration off of Xenix mail and onto Exchange. There wasn't any particular pain outside the usual complexity of doing any large migration. This was all well before Hotmail was a part of Microsoft.
  Source: I was on the exchange team at the time.
59. Re:Barring? by gewalker · 2012-03-21 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Its not really a surprise. Dogs will eat their own (or others) vomit and crap. Rotten meat is not a problem. rocks and nails, Mmmm good. So, its no surprise that MS will eat their own dogfood -- it's better than other canine comestibles.
60. Re:Barring? by baka_toroi · 2012-03-21 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  What do you think calling them "M$" will accomplish? Nothing. It's like, uh, liking a post against Kony on Facebook. It accomplish nothing and makes you look like a fool (as I see it).
  We all here know about Microsoft's evil ways, I don't think it's necessary to keep using that. What are you gonna call Apple, "iFag"? Go ahead, be my guest. But I think it's ridiculous.
  
  "Heh, I called them 'M$'. That will show them!"
61. Re:Barring? by husker_man · 2012-03-21 08:59 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I used to work at Motorola. About twelve years ago, the president of the company (Chris Galvin) was upset at the number of employees who worked there who had cell phones from other vendors - Nokia being the chief sore spot at the time. Word came down from management that it was not a good idea for one's career to be using a non-Motorola phone for either personal or corporate use. To be fair, they did give us excellent discounts ongoing on Motorola phones, so it was pretty much a good thing.
62. Re:Barring? by TechNit · 2012-03-21 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  M$FT, there I fixed it for you... Some people's kids...
  
  --
  Sig?! Sig?! We don't need no stinking sig!!
63. Re:Barring? by lgw · 2012-03-21 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the "Micro Soft" brand of condoms faired poorly in the market.
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
64. Re:Barring? by Soporific · 2012-03-21 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, you are choosing to do so. And the M$ crap is getting old...
  ~S
65. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:08 · Score: 0
  
  Hey, look on the bright side. At least it's not owned by fuckin Micks!
66. Re:Barring? by zlives · 2012-03-21 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  wonder if Droid is on the list?
67. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:10 · Score: 0
  
  Obama-Lover!
  
  Yeah, because doing things for yourself perfectly matches the attitudes of Obama lovers.
68. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:11 · Score: 0
  
  Most major breweries in the U.S. (even Guinness - *SOB*) are owned and operated from overseas. Brew your own!
  This may be one of the most (unintentionally?) funny things I've ever read on /. No kidding? A famous UK brand isn't US-owned? Wow?
  It just keeps going. Guinness is Irish. Ireland != North Ireland and you better believe it isn't in the U.K. Oh nevermind it's corporate, has presence everywhere and may or may not have moved their HQ back to Ireland for lower corporate taxes.
69. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:11 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  If you're going to criticize someone's geography, at least get it right yourself. Ireland is not in the UK.
70. Re:Barring? by KevReedUK · 2012-03-21 09:15 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  There's no indication in the summary that other divisions were affected by this request.
  
  employees in its Sales, Marketing, Services, IT, and Operations Group (SMSG)
  
  ...so it's not just the sales staff!
  
  --
  Just my $0.03 (At current exchange rates, my £0.02 is worth more than your $0.02)
71. Re:Barring? by thetoadwarrior · 2012-03-21 09:18 · Score: 0
  
  Sounds like you're a winblows fan.
72. Re:Barring? by baka_toroi · 2012-03-21 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  Actually I'm a fan of Windoze Fista
73. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:21 · Score: 0
  
  Most major breweries in the U.S. (even Guinness - *SOB*) are owned and operated from overseas. Brew your own!
  This may be one of the most (unintentionally?) funny things I've ever read on /. No kidding? A famous UK brand isn't US-owned? Wow?
  Guinnes is Irish. Metafail!
74. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:26 · Score: 0
  
  So can we type A$$pple to refer to people throwing money on Apple products? Please please please????
75. Re:Barring? by black3d · 2012-03-21 09:28 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Name a bug in Office that has been there more than a decade which affects your usage of the product.
  None?
  That's why people who type "M$" are criticized. Because it shows they're speaking purely out of spiteful bias and simply like to parrot things "they've heard" on the interwebs. This commonly occurred for example, with Windows Vista, where the product was hugely, widely bashed by people who had never used it. In fact, it's still bashed by people who've never used it. And the faults they describe largely either didn't exist, or only affected a small number of users.
  "M$" simply demonstrates a mind-set of pre-determination by the writer, and suggests they're not going to be rational in any of the arguments they make.
  
  --
  "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
76. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  Well, still is Microsoft depending on a third-party unix OS instead of relying on its own windows services. As far as I remember, Xenix was sold to SCO still during the 80s, well before they bought hotmail.
77. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:29 · Score: 0
  
  Ireland isn't part of the uk
78. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:31 · Score: 0
  
  No he's probably 38-42 and stuck in 1999 zone. A lot of people are.
79. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  There we go again... This wasn't true on the 70s, wasn't true during the 80s, and was true when jobs was out, and it could be noticed. It's not anymore, for years, but people keep saying the same old crap.
  Come on, now rant about M$ and say how os/2 / GNU/Linux / BSD is so much better as well.
80. Re:Barring? by jellomizer · 2012-03-21 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  It seems perfectly reasonable. I mean you are out selling Microsoft Products and Services and to see the sales person using a Mac or an iPad to do their business while pushing their stuff for you to do theirs send out the wrong message. With Windows 8 Coming out with Tablet features there isn't really a good reason why they should use iPads to do their work. Unless of course if they are trying to Push an iPad app made by Microsoft of Microsoft products for Mac. However for those units I expect an exception is made.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
81. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:40 · Score: 0
  
  We also intermarry, which explains people like George W. Bush Jr.
  Not all Texans marry their relatives.
82. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:40 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Of all things, you went to choose the Republic of Ireland's most known symbol to say that is UK?
  Ok, I know, uk, england, northern ireland, great britain, commonwealth, queen's territories, all this crap IS confusing. But let me get you a couple of things straight:
  - Ireland is an Island. On it, there are two countries. One is Northern Ireland, another is Republic of Ireland;
  - Northern Ireland is part of UK, commonwealth or whatever. Its currency is the british pound. Its capital is Belfast
  - Republic of Ireland is an independent country which today has nothing to do with uk. It is part of the Euro zone. Its capital is Dublin. DUBLIN THE CITY WHERE GUINNESS IS MADE (mostly)
  - There is some animosity between the Irish and the British, to say the least. What you just said might be considered offensive in there.
  Republic of Ireland is not the most resourceful country on the planet, granted. But two things you can bet they are very proud of: Their Guinness and their Jameson's.
83. Re:Barring? by hvdh · 2012-03-21 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  it's pretty clear from the quality of their products that, for the most part, all they care about is the money. There are bugs in Office that have been there probably more than a decade.
  
  I was also quite annoyed lately as I stumbled upon a bug in Visual Studio 2008 and how it was handled by MS. The bug report was closed as "cannot reproduce", because while it is in VS2008, it could not be reproduced in VS 2010 (!). As if buying and migrating to VS2010 would be a proper bugfix...
  Bug report:
  https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/654831/dumpbin-exe-output-not-redirectable-from-within-visual-studio-project-files
84. Re:Barring? by Guspaz · 2012-03-21 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  They can eat their own dogfood on Macintosh and iPads just fine. Not only can you run Windows on a Mac, but Microsoft is a major publisher of both Macintosh and iOS software. On the Mac side, they've got a full Microsoft Office suite, Remote Desktop, Windows Live Messenger, etc. On the iOS side, they've got Windows Live Messenger, Bing, OneNote, Lync, Tag, My XBox Live, MSN, Halo Waypoint, Kinectimals, etc. Some of these cost money.
  Heck, Microsoft seems to have more stuff in the iOS App Store than Apple does.
85. Re:Barring? by afidel · 2012-03-21 09:43 · Score: 0
  
  So you can do UML in gvim now?!?
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
86. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:44 · Score: 2
  
  Actually, microsoft sells mostly software. Pretty much all their software for pcs runs on macs, right from windows on. They could use apple machines, with windows on them, or even mac os, provided they still use microsoft Office produts for mac on them.
  What would be shameful would be to see MS sales people giving a presentation using apple's Keynote. On a hackintosh dell running Lion.
87. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  Parallels? VMWare? What are you talking about. Macs run on intel processors with ddr memory and SATA hard drives since some six years ago - they run windows just fine. Format the damn thing, install windows 8 on it, and the only embarrassment comes from knowing that none of the companies that sell the hardware which comes with Microsoft's software bundle are coming close to make a portable machine as good as the only one on the market that does not come with windows.
88. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:53 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft sales people? What does it have to do with fortran and vi?
89. Re:Barring? by eric_herm · 2012-03-21 09:53 · Score: 1
  
  Given that for a mac book, you need to pay for a extended warranty, you do not have any docking station ( so can be painful for a company where people want to plug mouse, keyboard and a bigger screen ), my company have seen that a macbook was not cheaper than what we can get from our resseler and lenovo.
  Now, maybe you managed to get a better deal from Apple, or differents needs ( ie, people without any desk at all or they do not care not having mouses, keyboards, etc ), or dell do really screw you up.
90. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:54 · Score: 0
  
  Also, this isn't 1997 anymore.
  Sadly.
91. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  The videos in Powerpoint are sometimes linked, and sometimes embedded (usually linked). It is not possible to change that, and when they are linked, they use an absolute path.
  Now try to email a presentation with an embedded video to your boss.
92. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 09:57 · Score: 1
  
  Not that much. Macs are pcs, you know. Quite good ones, actually. Problem is this glowing apple logo on their backs - you see it and then you think about what's wrong with microsoft as a whole regarding this - no matter hp notebooks or whatnot just plain suck, or sony ones are even more expensive than apple's, especially if you ask them to have one with a plain windows installation, that is somehow MORE expensive than the one which is 30% slower because of sony and their partners' bloat.
93. Re:Barring? by mgblst · 2012-03-21 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  How many people at Microsoft do you reckon are doing data entry? And you realise that not everybody who works does data entry?
94. Re:Barring? by rtb61 · 2012-03-21 10:00 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  MS is reserved for http://www.msaustralia.org.au/, http://mssociety.ca/en/, http://www.mssociety.org.uk/ and http://www.nationalmssociety.org/index.aspx. Get over it already. M$ is for for the whiney softies and MS is for multiple sclerosis. Not that I mind the complaints because every time I see it it gives me the opportunity to promote organisation that are of direct interest to geeks and nerds due the impact of the disease upon our most valuable asset our minds.
  So M$ and MSN are the same company (although they should really break up in order to give MSN a creative surge).
  As for M$ banning the purchase of Apple products with company funds, it's only logical and really doesn't even rate a mention. In fact M$ should pretty much demand free product from Apple in order to continue development of M$ Software for Apple products. You know, straight up demand, Dear Apple you will supply 25 million dollars worth of Apple hardware (servers, desktops, phones, tablets, operating system) per annum or efforts to develop software for the base will cease and that whilst harsh is logical and acceptable.
  M$ should not pay for Apple hardware or software in order to spend more money to develop software for it in order to 'LOSE SALES'.
  I can't really understand why M$ marketdroids get so bent out of shape, especially considering the importance of the $ symbol in M$ basic, the use of $ in M$ is far more subtle the M$ marketdroids could ever understand (I tried to use M$ as much as possible in this comment are you eyes bleeding yet ;D ).
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
95. Re:Barring? by PixelPusher1532 · 2012-03-21 10:00 · Score: 2
  
  So can we type A$$pple to refer to people throwing money on Apple products? Please please please????
  I prefer the more politically correct term, iLemming.
96. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:00 · Score: 0
  
  I think the expression is meant to be "eating your own vomit". To describe Microsoft products as simply dog food is to make out that their products are mildly unpalatable. Whereas the products are excruciatingly malodorous and having to use them after producing them is definitely more akin to eating one's own vomit.
97. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  Well played sir! If only WoW was linux-only...
98. Re:Barring? by semi-extrinsic · 2012-03-21 10:10 · Score: 0
  
  As a matter of fact, yes. PlantUML and this plugin. Not that I would wish UML upon my worst enemy.
  
  --
  for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
99. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:14 · Score: 0
  
  since there have been 5 new versions since 2000, not sure if your challenge is especially valid.
  Of course, i am one of those folks who still curse the ribbon almost daily.
100. Re:Barring? by BlueStraggler · 2012-03-21 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it look bad if a Microsoft employee came to your company to demo a new product, and they whipped-out their Apple Macbook to give the presentation?
  If the presentation was on Keynote on OS X, it would look fantastic!
  The presentation, that is. Microsoft, not so much.
  If it was PowerPoint on Windows 7, it would look like ass. The presentation, that is. But kinda cool for Microsoft. "Look, we are everywhere! Resistance is futile!"
101. Re:Barring? by DNS-and-BIND · 2012-03-21 10:25 · Score: 0
  
  They're called M$ because a bad reputation takes a long, long time to live down.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
102. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:28 · Score: 0
  
  Apple apologist or just anti-Microsoft. Given Apple's hoarding of cash something like A££le would be appropriate alongside M$.
103. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:40 · Score: 0
  
  Ok, I'll bite. This isn't a bug of MS Office, but a Windows bug.
  Windows daylight saving time bug, in other words it uses local time internally for timekeeping. This bug dates back to Windows 1 (and DOS), i guess.
104. Re:Barring? by hairyfeet · 2012-03-21 10:42 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  You know what that M$ shit makes you sound like? This guy that's what. you could post the most insightful exposition on the current state of MSFT in the software arena but 90%+ aren't even gonna see it because they see M$ and think "Douchenozzle fanboi" and walk right on past. There are plenty of abbreviations that are NOT from 1993, use MS, MSFT MSoft, whatever but the stupid M$ bit hasn't been applicable since DOS died in 1999. Eat some fruit, get some sun, quit acting like a douche, kay?
  As for TFA duh! To use a /. car analogy do you think Ford would want their employees using company funds to buy Chevys? hell no, its called supporting your company and eating your own dog food. What they do with their OWN money is nobody's business, what they do with company funds very much IS the business of the company.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
105. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:45 · Score: 0
  
  This is helpful:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
106. Re:Barring? by Macman408 · 2012-03-21 10:46 · Score: 2
  
  Noooo! They shipped Jameson's overseas too? Does anybody know where I can get a good domestic Irish whiskey in the US?
107. Re:Barring? by mbkennel · 2012-03-21 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  that's what elections are for.
108. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:49 · Score: 0
  
  Northern Ireland is not a country it is a province. Well two turds of a province.
109. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:51 · Score: 0
  
  Name a bug in Office that has been there more than a decade which affects your usage of the product.
  wow. can we set the bar any lower...
110. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:51 · Score: 0
  
  MSFT also used IBM AS/400s and tried to migrate their functions to Windows servers. Result? Back to AS/400s when it didn't pan out.
111. Re:Barring? by semi-extrinsic · 2012-03-21 10:52 · Score: 1
  
  The subtext, as I read it, is: "Open/Libre office suck compared to MS Office".
  Agreed, when you demand a lot from your office suite. However, I don't exactly see Apple as the type of company that uses VB macros a lot, or does complex documents in Word, so I don't know if there are many use cases left that require them to use MS Office. Certainly not "Everywhere people need to be productivity". But perhaps you can point out some cases?
  
  --
  for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
112. Re:Barring? by warrigal · 2012-03-21 10:59 · Score: 1
  
  >> IOW, Microsoft doesn't want its own company money to be supporting Apple and other competitors.
  But does the edict cover anyone other than Apple? Are MS staff barred from buying (with company funds) Android phones and/or Linux PCs? If not, it shows where Microsoft's concerns are. If so, it's still revealing.
113. Re:Barring? by ozmanjusri · 2012-03-21 11:02 · Score: 0
  
  Do you REALLY think we need to be reminded?
  Yes, especially now Microsoft is sailing under false pretences.
  Have you seen how they've adopted the Shetland Islands flag for W8? At least they're finally admitting it's a half-pint OS, but still...
  
  --
  "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
114. Re:Barring? by TapeCutter · 2012-03-21 11:07 · Score: 2
  
  The MS response basically says it's fixed in the latest version and they are not going to patch older versions. That kind of policy has been common practice in the software industry for a long time now. Fixing bugs in old versions is all cost unless you can sell them a support contract, fixing the bug by selling a copy of the latest version is all profit. Even with a support contract the likely answer from most software vendors would be "install the latest version".
  
  --
  And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
115. Re:Barring? by Americano · 2012-03-21 11:11 · Score: 2
  
  Guinness
  
  A famous UK brand
  
  This may be one of the most (unintentionally?) funny things I've ever read on /.
  Yeah, what you said. Just not for the same reasons.
116. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 11:12 · Score: 1
  
  I thought about this video as well. Actually, it helped me too :-)
117. Re:Barring? by gnasher719 · 2012-03-21 11:23 · Score: 2
  
  I used to work at Motorola. About twelve years ago, the president of the company (Chris Galvin) was upset at the number of employees who worked there who had cell phones from other vendors - Nokia being the chief sore spot at the time. Word came down from management that it was not a good idea for one's career to be using a non-Motorola phone for either personal or corporate use. To be fair, they did give us excellent discounts ongoing on Motorola phones, so it was pretty much a good thing.
  That's quite idiotic. If they worried that too many Motorola employees bought non-Motorola phones with their own money, then they should have tried to make better phones.
118. Re:Barring? by alexandre_ganso · 2012-03-21 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  Huh? It is still done in Dublin.
119. Re:Barring? by serviscope_minor · 2012-03-21 11:39 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  How about Micros~1?
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
120. Re:Barring? by 6ULDV8 · 2012-03-21 11:49 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe they would, but after watching my dog's behavior around the litter box, it seems they're content to let the cats handle production.
  
  --
  Pull my finger for my public key.
121. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 11:51 · Score: 0
  
  Whoa, PP may be hitting the hash pipe, but you're sucking back ream after ream of blotter acid!
122. Re:Barring? by Score+Whore · 2012-03-21 11:53 · Score: 2
  
  Um. No that's not the idea at all. It simply mean that you use your product. The phrase "eat your own dog food" has been around for years, since the 1980's at least, and in use in other industries entirely.
123. Re:Barring? by Samantha+Wright · 2012-03-21 12:07 · Score: 1
  
  This made my day. Next up, a costume drama set in the late 1980s about 8-bit hackers, complete with proto-leetspeak and greetz in the credits.
  
  --
  Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
124. Re:Barring? by Lumpy · 2012-03-21 12:33 · Score: 1
  
  eat its own dogfood
  How appropriate...
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
125. Re:Barring? by martin-boundary · 2012-03-21 12:37 · Score: 1
  
  From here
  
  The editor of IEEE Software recounts that in the 1980s television advertisements for Alpo dog food, Lorne Greene pointed out that he fed Alpo to his own dogs. Another possible origin is the president of Kal Kan Pet Food, who was said to eat a can of his dog food at shareholders' meetings.^[6]
  In 1988, Microsoft manager Paul Maritz sent Brian Valentine, test manager for Microsoft LAN Manager, an email titled "Eating our own Dogfood", challenging him to increase internal usage of the company's product. From there, the usage of the term spread through the company.^[7]^[8]
126. Re:Barring? by Lumpy · 2012-03-21 12:39 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  "you need to pay for a extended warranty"
  Funny, nobody at Best Buy held a gun to my head demanding I buy an extended warranty. But that was in 2007 with my 17" macbook pro that has worked perfectly still to this day AND still holds a 2 hour charge on it's battery.
  Let me guess you are one of those people that never has owned a mac product but tries to sound like you know what you are talking about.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
127. Re:Barring? by Lumpy · 2012-03-21 12:41 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft is like owning a dog and cats.. and what dogs do when they find the cat box un-attended...
  That is what using microsoft products is like.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
128. Re:Barring? by Lumpy · 2012-03-21 12:42 · Score: 0
  
  And if you brew your own, even a half assed home beer is 80X better than any of the swill from a brewery. Guinness is donkey piss compared to a good home brewed dark stout.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
129. Re:Barring? by mcneely.mike · 2012-03-21 13:04 · Score: 0
  
  PLEASE!! Call it Windows 8... what do you think this is... 2012?
  
  Oh. Sorry.
  
  --
  soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
130. Re:Barring? by meloneg · 2012-03-21 13:18 · Score: 1
  
  I knew I was gonna get that reference wrong. Oh well. ;-)
131. Re:Barring? by null+etc. · 2012-03-21 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  Bulleted lists. Bulleted lists have been broken since well before 2002.
  Oh, and "sections". Sections have been broken for almost as long as bulleted lists.
132. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 13:40 · Score: 0
  
  Come to Portland (Oregon), we've got plenty to spare!
133. Re:Barring? by colsandurz45 · 2012-03-21 13:43 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Actually Guinness is a UK owned company. Diageo owns Guinness
134. Re:Barring? by jimmerz28 · 2012-03-21 13:52 · Score: 1
  
  So let me ask then: are you still on the Exchange team?
135. Re:Barring? by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-03-21 13:58 · Score: 0
  
  people who type "M$" are criticized. Because it shows they're speaking purely out of spiteful bias
  Or is it because M$ astroturfers just hate that nice little joke?, which has a long if not particularly distinguished pedigree.
  
  --
  Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
136. Re:Barring? by Macman408 · 2012-03-21 14:12 · Score: 1
  
  The joke is that, being an American, I think it surely must come from the US, because, since we invented beer, and we created Guinness (read up a few levels), we probably invented Irish whiskey too. I'm just happy that other countries picked up on the whole beer thing and have started their own great microbrews that the locals love, like Foster's and Heineken.
137. Re:Barring? by cavreader · 2012-03-21 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  Well it looks like the MS guy was trying to help you and get a fix or work around. You make it sound like they told you to fuck off and buy VS2010. They even attempted to reproduce the error using your information and couldn't.
138. Re:Barring? by psiclops · 2012-03-21 14:32 · Score: 2
  
  Im form Aus, the locals do not love fosters. we export that shit for others to drink. VB and carlton draught are probably our two major local beers. (other states are a bit differently, i hear they like XXXX further up north)
  
  --
  i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
139. Re:Barring? by dbIII · 2012-03-21 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  Name a bug in Office that has been there more than a decade which affects your usage of the product.
  Instant answer: the way MS Word deals with images in documents has been pissing me off since at least 1996.
  It's true that it's not Desktop Publishing software even if it gets some of the way there so it can be partly excused - but still the failure of images to stay where you put them is something that wastes a lot of people's time and has been there for over a decade.
  BTW - Vista really was bad and didn't even support Microsoft's domain networking properly. There was an unsupported hack using a command line that could get that running but that is pretty well a textbook definition of an unfinished product. I've still got some Vista machines lurking around that occassionally remind me of how bad it is, but they are half owned by their users and I have no authority to buy Win7 for them.
140. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 14:50 · Score: 0
  
  The Excel problems with statistical distributions. I guess it hasn't been there for a decade, though, if you count the changes they made that made the problem worse as a second bug.
141. Re:Barring? by Macman408 · 2012-03-21 14:56 · Score: 1
  
  Sigh. I thought that joke should have been obvious. Hell, if you think anything in that whole sentence was serious...
142. Re:Barring? by davester666 · 2012-03-21 16:02 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it makes to difference to Microsoft what string of characters you happen to use to refer to them as here on Slashdot.
  It's not like they are reading all the posts and suddenly go "oh my god, he's mentioning that we have longstanding bugs in our products and he also referred to us using our complete legal name, now we have to go and fix the bugs"
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
143. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 16:28 · Score: 0
  
  Or is it because M$ astroturfers just hate that nice little joke?
  
  It does not follow that people who deride the use of 'M$' are astroturfers, you label them as such out of either ignorance or just trolling, but thanks for playing, better luck next time.
144. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 16:47 · Score: 0
  
  While it is true that Microsoft has a technologica non grata list. Macs aren't on it. In fact there's an employee discount for purchases through the apple store. Microsoft makes Office for the Mac. Why shouldn't the company encourage people to run that? MSR researcher danah boyd famously kept her mac when going to MSR.
145. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 17:45 · Score: 0
  
  M$ still makes exclusion deals with PC manufacturers so that consumers have to pay for copies of their OS even if they would rather receive the hardware without one. M$ still makes more money annually through agreements with android-based cell phone manufacturers than it does from sales of its own smartphones.
  Until these two facts change, I think the '$' in "M$" is appropriate: Microsoft is a bastard of a corporation that weasels its way into extracting money from even those who avoid using their products.
146. Re:Barring? by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-03-21 18:14 · Score: 0
  
  But only M$ astroturfers seem to get uptight about it.
  
  --
  Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
147. Re:Barring? by Technician · 2012-03-21 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  Now if Apple then prohibited it's staff from purchasing Microsoft products with Apple funds, the trade embargo will be complete.
  Apple to Microsoft,
  " We will not be purchasing Office this year for our staff. We are moving to Open Office "
  
  --
  The truth shall set you free!
148. Re:Barring? by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-03-21 18:33 · Score: 1
  
  But only M$ astroturfers seem to get uptight about it.
  Wow, it become$ clear that the term M$ really hits M$ astroturfer$ in a $ensitive place. Thi$ i$ noteworthy, becau$e up till now it wa$ thought that the classic M$ a$troturfer$ does not have any $ensitive place.
  
  --
  Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
149. Re:Barring? by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-03-21 18:36 · Score: 1
  
  Excuse me, I meant cla$$ic.
  
  --
  Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
150. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 21:02 · Score: 0
  
  It is because no sensible person would eat dog food simply because their company makes it.
  Ok, let me explain the joke for you. He is implying that the italicized "food" should be replaced with "shit".
151. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 21:17 · Score: 0
  
  The $ goes at the END of the variable name. Oh, and only the first two letters of your variable name matters, so M$ is fine, MS$ is fine, but MSFT$ is just MS$ with a couple of extra letters.
152. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 21:50 · Score: 0
  
  making everyone in the company use the phones you are making give you an extra incentive to make it good phones
153. Re:Barring? by lightenergy · 2012-03-22 00:35 · Score: 0
  
  When you add a lot of graphic images to a Word doc Word will sporadically tell you that you don't have enough disk space to save the file even if you have 100 gigabytes of space left on the drive. This happens more consistently if I have a lot of equations in a doc. It won't always fail but as you add more graphics the likelihood of failure increases. It refuses to save the document because there is a bug in the way that it computes the size of the file to be saved. Once it starts failing on a particular document then it is persistent. Your can force it to save but then it converts the equations to graphics which are no longer editable by MathType or Equation editor. Your remark is scored as 5, Insightful. How old are you and the friends that scored your comment ?
154. Re:Barring? by silentcoder · 2012-03-22 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  One word dude: Bob.
  No, it will never be long enough after the fact to either forgive them or stop laughing at them for that one.
  
  --
  Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
155. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 01:21 · Score: 0
  
  Why would they care about something shittier than Windows??
156. Re:Barring? by ultranova · 2012-03-22 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  This only says not to buy those things with company money. IOW, Microsoft doesn't want its own company money to be supporting Apple and other competitors. It is not applicable for staff buying them for personal use.
  
  Out of curiosity, if it was applicable to personal use, would it be legal? Common sense would indicate no, but there's been a lot of crazy things going on lately, and plenty of companies certainly like to think of people as serfs.
  
  --
  Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
157. Re:Barring? by phlinn · 2012-03-22 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Office Outlook stores it's location for it's local cache of emails for exchange with an fully specified absolute path. If your oganization happens to have roaming profiles, and they bug on a computer so someones profile gets stored as username.domain instead of just username, rather than making a new local cache it bugs out and requires someone to manually reconfigured the exchange connection. It should be able to regenerate it's cache location if it doesn't have access to the previous expected location.
  
  There are several places in office where it should allow relative paths or variable based paths, and doesn't. The above also wouldn't be a problem if it used %userprofile%. Access should allow linked databases to use relative paths, so that you can move a front end/back end pair around wherever you like without a custom script to check folder locations or requiring you to manually update the links. This is more of an obvious missed feature than a bug per se.
  
  I should note that I still disapprove of the substitution of $ for S in MS.
  
  --
  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
158. Re:Barring? by suprem1ty · 2012-03-22 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  I'd say most of Microsoft's software problems stem from the fact that they tend to over-complicate all their software. While sometimes a good thing (I'm sure all the backward compatability and hardware flexibility in Windows was no easy task) I'd say its probably keeping them from being the company with the most stable and reliable software. I'd personaly rather a desktop system with occasional issues than one with little/no backward compatability (MacOS).
159. Re:Barring? by phlinn · 2012-03-22 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  For most of my stint as a computer tech, Jobs was in again, and yes it WAS more expensive to buy a Mac with similar hardware than to buy a windows box, except that the windows box generally wouldn't have things like Firewire which we didn't actually have a use for. Maybe that little missing piece of hardware is why... but to get a computer with a good enough processor, memory, hard drive, and graphics card, windows was cheaper.
  
  --
  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
160. Re:Barring? by phlinn · 2012-03-22 02:36 · Score: 1
  
  It does leave out any groups that would actually need to check competing products. If IT uses a third pary app for management, that's a serious sign that Microsoft should be adding or reconfiguring something in their own software.
  
  --
  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
161. Re:Barring? by phlinn · 2012-03-22 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  Troll? I would have modded this funny myself. Maybe you weren't intending to be funny, but I mentally heard a rimshot at the end of it. :)
  
  --
  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
162. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 03:02 · Score: 0
  
  The leap-year bug in Excel. It was *intentionally* added to the MS OOXML spreadsheet format for 'backward compatibility reasons' because it's been broken for so long that everyone knows to code specific work-arounds into their macros and spreadsheet calculations. That's right. MS, explicitly *refused* to fix the well-known leap-year bug because doing so would 'break' too many user files.
163. Re:Barring? by cornjones · 2012-03-22 03:09 · Score: 1
  
  posting anon as I am a former MSer.
  While this is about using company money (and therefore completely a non issue), there is also a strong corporate culture to not use (or at least be ashamed aobut using) these other products. (apple, google come to mind) Several people still do, but you keep it on the downlow.
164. Re:Barring? by cornjones · 2012-03-22 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  heh, anon fail. good thing i didn't say anything really bad.
165. Re:Barring? by hairyfeet · 2012-03-22 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  Hell I'd give props for that for being old school enough to remember what it was like back in the days of the 8.3 at least. But lets be honest the "M$" bit is part of a more insidious disease the guys at TMRepos have named "Voldemort Syndrome" where Linux crazies find themselves incapable of typing ANYTHING but "That other OS" or "M$" like a sekret M$ Ninja is gonna jump out from under their bed and make them run WinME if they write "that which must not be named". Think I'm bullshitting? Go over to LinuxInsider and look up anything written by Pogson as he is a perfect example, we also have pretty much anything written by Oakgrove here. they are simply incapable of writing MS or MSFT, or MSoft or your cute Micros~1, its like brain damage or something and makes the whole community look batshit.
  Sadly this is why I came up with the phrase "FOSSies" to separate FOSS users and developers, which are usually smart and knowledgeable folks, from the total batshit that seems to have taken over a portion of the FOSS community. In a way it reminds me of how the republican party got jacked in the 80s by the religious whackos that pushed out the fiscal conservatives and libertarians so that now we actually have a ME policy written based on a single line written on a sheep's ass 1800 years ago that says a guy that been dead over 2000 years needs a certain race to valet park his fluffy cloud.
  because in both cases you have all differing opinions and voices of reason drowned out by slobbering zealots that scream louder, act ruder, and basically treat everything as a crusade. Part of this I blame on RMS who if anything has become more militant (and more than a little batshit, what with eating toe funk on stage and all) in his old age who constantly frames EVERY damned argument as a "good VS evil" religious battle but in the end if the saner voices don't stand up they risk being drowned out just as you won't find a Barry Goldwater conservative within a hundred miles of a neocon tent.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
166. Re:Barring? by CAIMLAS · 2012-03-22 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  MS lost a golden opportunity here to emphasize the "why", whether true or not. "We don't want you to buy their products because they're overpriced and are not good use of company assets".
  
  --
  ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
167. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  You don't have to do anything you don't want to do
  I think we all know that reality has proven that statement completely false.
168. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I can't accept an example involving a C-level employee. They are a unique case all their own.
169. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  Not everyone needs or cares for a docking station. And there are several 3rd party ones available, if you really, really, really need one.
170. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:25 · Score: 1
  
  Except that hasn't been true for a long time.
171. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:29 · Score: 1
  
  Ok? We now have more microbreweries in the US than we did prior to Prohibition. Just about anywhere you go, you can get a US brewed, US owned, possibly even locally owned/brewed, and far better tasting beer than anything from the major breweries.
  However, I will second the suggestion to brew your own. Homebrewing is awesome!
172. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  Hell, Microsoft has more stuff in the iOS App Store than they have in their own App Store.
173. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it look bad if a Microsoft employee came to your company to demo a new product, and they whipped-out their Apple Macbook to give the presentation?
  Not really, given that Microsoft doesn't make computers. Now, if it were Dell salesmen that whipped out a Macbook, then that might raise a few eyebrows.
174. Re:Barring? by cellocgw · 2012-03-22 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Excuse me, I meant cla$$ic
  Didn't you mean clbuttic?
  
  --
  https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
175. Re:Barring? by phlinn · 2012-03-22 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Except that's it's true at this vary moment. Cheapest macbook with a 17 inch screen direct from apple is 2500, while I can buy an acer aspire with a slightly slower cpu (2.2 vs 2.4 GHZ) for 900. Those are similar hardware, and the extra speed is not cost effective to purchase right now.
  
  --
  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
176. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Some shithead "libertarian" would come around saying some shit like, "You chose to work there! They should be able to fuck your spouse if they want to!"
177. Re:Barring? by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  I would assume there is some kind of exception for sales staff that sells software for OS X.
178. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 06:17 · Score: 0
  
  what's the diss on Notepad++? and furthermore what's with using that "R" word??????
179. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 06:29 · Score: 0
  
  I'm really not arguing this point, but the $999 macbook air has an 11" screen.
  The macbook pro with a 15" screen starts at $1799. Thats the one i consider to be more of competitor for business class Dell laptops.
  And my nicely configured Dell laptop was hundreds less than $1799.
180. Re:Barring? by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  The people whose job it is to explore competing products and do comparisons are allowed to buy those products on Microsoft money.
181. Re:Barring? by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  So apparently it's fine to show up to work with a Sansa MP3 player, Blackberry Playbook, and an Android smartphone.
  It's perfectly fine to show up to work with all of the above, and iPhones, too. I personally carry a Galaxy Nexus with me, and see plenty of iPhones and Androids around, and an occasional Macbook on the meetings.
  What's not fine is 1) purchasing them on the company money (other than when you do research on competing products), and 2) carrying them when you're interacting with customers, especially when you're trying to convince them to buy your own competing product.
  It's all basic common sense.
182. Re:Barring? by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  While this is about using company money (and therefore completely a non issue), there is also a strong corporate culture to not use (or at least be ashamed aobut using) these other products. (apple, google come to mind) Several people still do, but you keep it on the downlow.
  I'm a 'softie, and I don't know where you've seen that culture - but it sure as heck isn't here (DevDiv). I own an Android phone, use it to read my work mail and IM, and routinely whip it out on the meetings to do those things. About half of my team use either Androids or iPhones, and also carry and use them openly. When I go to an all hands, I can easily spot a bunch of glowing Apple logos here and there.
  For that matter, if you go on corpnet and search for things like "how to set up VPN on iPhone" and such, you'll find public SharePoint wikis dedicated to that stuff, where people discuss how to add certificates etc, and various tricks to make non-obvious things work. Ditto for Android.
  Sure, MS software and hardware is more widespread internally even for personal use, which makes sense - many people use it because it's better (for them), many because they really believe in what they're doing, and many do it because they can get it cheaper than the alternatives. But I haven't seen any kind of witch hunt against those that don't.
183. Re:Barring? by black3d · 2012-03-22 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, Outlooks entire handling of profiles causes me no end of hassles. Seriously - on a daily basis. :) Especially when someone needs a non-exchanged profile moved from one PC to another.. to an existing copy of Outlook. Please.. import/export functions which work would be lovely.
  I wasn't trying to say there aren't problems in Office, I was simply trying to call OP out on his claims to elicit a response from him. You see, like with him, I frequently come across people saying how awful Vista was and when I ask them what problems they personally had with Vista, the most common response is "Oh, I never used that piece of crap". So, they're purely parroting hearsay and thus I find their opinion in pretty much any topic null and void.
  When you put MS bashers on the spot, they frequently have nothing - thats all I was trying to do. Of course now he has lots of excellent suggestions to come back with. :)
  
  --
  "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
184. Re:Barring? by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  That's not a bug, it's a shitty design decision.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
185. Re:Barring? by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 11:57 · Score: 1
  
  His email address ends with "@mac.com". You're wasting your breath.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
186. Re:Barring? by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  It's sad because it's true.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
187. Re:Barring? by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 12:10 · Score: 1
  
  Um, one would speculate that Apple would use iWork, not shift to Open Office, which in my experience is the shittiest suite imaginable.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
188. Re:Barring? by dave87656 · 2012-03-22 19:49 · Score: 1
  
  They switched back to Sun hardware and Solaris for hotmail
  Rumor has it that Hotmail was running on FreeBSD when MS bought it. But, regardless, I heard the same story that they tried to get it work on Windows Server and failed miserably. I guess this is why they still use Akamai linux servers for Windows Update.
189. Re:Barring? by dave87656 · 2012-03-22 19:57 · Score: 1
  
  Because it shows they're speaking purely out of spiteful bias
  Actually, I think most people are speaking from bad experiences. But, as a whole, we have Linux internally (now about 50 clients and two servers) and a few Windows clients. We have a guy full time spending a good part of his time supporting the Windows boxes. The linux boxes give us no trouble. If you hear people complaining about Windows at our company it's because they are genuinely frustrated.
190. Re:Barring? by dave87656 · 2012-03-22 20:01 · Score: 1
  
  Source: I was on the exchange team at the time
  Since you were there, is there any truth to the rumor of the difficulties they had converting Hotmail to Windows Server and that they had to switch back to FreeBSD or Solaris or whatever it was running on when they bought it?
191. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 22:16 · Score: 1
  
  No, I think the real outrage is that you got modded insightful for defending a puerile twat and making a feeble point yourself.
  
  Yes, Microsoft exist to make money. I suppose Apple, Exxon Mobil, Wal-Mart and the rest give all their stuff away for free, and any incidental money they make they donate to starving third world orphans?
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
192. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 22:27 · Score: 1
  
  I've never had a problem with bulletted lists in Word, what do you mean exactly?
  
  And the whole "sections" thing is not something that most people have even heard of AFAIK.
  
  I always get the impression that people criticise Word in particular for things that it is not supposed to do. It is not a desktop publishing package or a scientific textbook production package, it is a word processor. It processes and formats text, and does that as well as most alternatives, if no better.
  
  I wouldn't pay for Word to use myself, as the free alternatives are just as good, but it is not exactly a hardship using Word at work.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
193. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 22:39 · Score: 1
  
  How about Micros~1?
  Yes, because MS didn't get rid of the 8 character filename limit with Windows 95 seventeen years ago.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
194. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  So can we type A$$pple to refer to people throwing money on Apple products? Please please please????
  Er, you do realise that the $ in M$ is a humourous substitution for an S, so that your comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever since Apple isn't spelled Asspple?
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
195. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 22:45 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like you're a winblows fan.
  AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
  
  I see what you did there.
  
  Here's another one for you: "Sounds like you're a winDOZE fan".
  
  Geddit? It sounds like windows but it's got doze instead because windows is really slow and boring and stuff. Sometimes I crack myself up.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
196. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 23:06 · Score: 1
  
  Ever seen data entry staff sitting in rows on iPads? No of course not.
  You bet your ass I have seen 60 Sales and Marketing staffers using iPads in the field, and we are starting to move 500 positions who DONT need a laptop or desktop to using iPads running Citrix within the next 2 years.
  Do you not know what the phrase "data entry staff" means? Salesmen aren't inputting large amounts of data, they're using the iPad to view product brochures, look up contacts and appointments, and record some notes. They're not accounts clerks inputting thousands of invoices on an accounting system, or payroll clerks inputting thousands of timesheets onto the payroll database.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
197. Re:Barring? by thetoadwarrior · 2012-03-22 23:14 · Score: 1
  
  baka_toroi beat you to that already by a day and changed vista to fista which I thought was a nice innovative touch.
198. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 23:14 · Score: 1
  
  How many people at Microsoft do you reckon are doing data entry? And you realise that not everybody who works does data entry?
  No, not everyone who works does data entry, and a lot of senior executives don't need a computer at all except to act as high tech jewellery.
  
  But all the accounts staff, developers, marketing people, HR assistants, secretaries, and the rest will probably spend most of their day at a keyboard in front of a screen entering information and an iPad (or other tablet) is fucking useless for that.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
199. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-22 23:25 · Score: 1
  
  Um. No that's not the idea at all. It simply mean that you use your product. The phrase "eat your own dog food" has been around for years, since the 1980's at least, and in use in other industries entirely.
  It's still a stupid phrase. I know what it means, but it just doesn't make sense.
  Even if your company made the best dog food in the world, you wouldn't eat it yourself. I think that somewhere along the line this phrase has been distorted or something omitted. If your company made dog food, you would certainly hope your employees fed their dogs with it, but that's all.
  Apart from not making sense, it also has quite disgusting connotations for something that is supposed to be a good thing.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
200. Re:Barring? by cornjones · 2012-03-23 00:13 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, MS software and hardware is more widespread internally even for personal use, which makes sense - many people use it because it's better (for them), many because they really believe in what they're doing, and many do it because they can get it cheaper than the alternatives.
  all of those points are true, don't get me wrong, i don't think it is a bad thing. i left about 6 years ago and it was definitely frowned upon in redwest. This was before the astronomical apple explosion of the last few years. There was still thought of windows phone 6 (6.5?) being a competitor, zune had a shot vs ipod. and come on guys, we should really be supporting bing and not using 'evil search giant'. (Do they still have the internal google vs bing search results page?) The landscape has changed in those areas considerably and not to MS's favor.
  I think that culture came more from the 'we believe in what we are doing' and 'eat your own dogfood' side of the aisle (and the cost, as you noted) but there was an undercurrent of don't help the competition, in my experience.
201. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-23 00:20 · Score: 1
  
  There is some animosity between the Irish and the British, to say the least. What you just said might be considered offensive in there.
  I was with a friend of mine when she went into a pub in Dublin and asked for a black and tan. To say the atmosphere turned chilly would be an understatement.
  
  The two funniest things were (a) for some reason she did it in a comedy Oirish accent and (b) she genuinely hadn't heard of the Black and Tans or their evil reputatin in Ireland, she just liked that drink and thought it would be nice to have something with Guinness in in Dublin.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
202. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-23 00:22 · Score: 1
  
  In the immortal words of Inspector Morse, there's a good reason they call it xxxx.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
203. Re:Barring? by tehcyder · 2012-03-23 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  If you're going to criticize someone's geography, at least get it right yourself. Ireland is not in the UK.
  It's in the British Isles though, so GP could have said "a famous British brand" and been technically correct (although no one living in Eire would call themselves British).
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
204. Re:Barring? by phlinn · 2012-03-23 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough. It's worth noting that their are real flaws in many Microsoft products, and for people who have to troubleshoot them every day it's easy to assume they are worse than other companies in that regard. The one I noted has been around forever (unless it's been fixed since my employer dropped exchange). Your initial post seemed to suggest that Microsoft doesn't leave any bugs lying around unfixed, rather than just being a challenge to that commenter to prove that he was actually familiar with MS products. It would have been worth adding "If you can't name them without googling them, you don't actually know what you are talking about."
  
  I did have some real technical issue with the switch to Vista/windows 7 from XP (profile stuff mostly) but I decline to enumerate them all. Some of the changes may have been necessary for various reasons I'm unaware of, but they still caused work for me.
  
  --
  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
205. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-23 05:00 · Score: 0
  
  Your well thought out reply only demonstrates to me that you are not ready for a management position. . . .
206. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-23 16:27 · Score: 0
  
  Let me guess you are one of those people that never has owned a mac product but tries to sound like you know what you are talking about.
  And you're one of those people that think you can apply your little story to any situation? Nobody gives a shit about your Macbook.
207. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-23 16:35 · Score: 0
  
  This old shit again? All that graphics software is available for other platforms and runs better in Windows anyway.
208. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-25 12:06 · Score: 0
  
  I believe you will find that it is MICROS~1 sir.
209. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-26 12:55 · Score: 0
  
  back in my day at Microsoft, we used Netscape Navigator 4.05 internally to test our new Internet customer-facing applications since IE 3 and IE 4 were not W3C compliant. My directors and VPs were very mad and tried to stop our group but they could not. Our product would ship flawless and work on both IE and NN. Other Microsoft group's products would ship buggy as hell in the javascript and other HTML 3.2 and 4.0 products. Eat our own dog food only applied to the weak and spineless corporate nerds. our products rocked and we were able to migrate many away from NN because our products worked seemlessly and we made a point of it.
  Today, Apple gear is good running either OS X or Win7. I believe sales people should be able know their competitors products as best as they know their own, and if they cannot use it and learn it, how will they be able to make selling points for or against.
210. Re:Barring? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-29 07:42 · Score: 0
  
  If they're eating their own dog food, they must have a bad case of of food poisoning.
Right by mwvdlee · 2012-03-21 06:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

And this is news... how exactly?
Don't most companies ban using company funds to buy competitors' products for operational staff?

--
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
1. Re:Right by ashmon · 2012-03-21 06:40 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  They're just letting us know that MS wants its own employees to use the best possible tech available.
2. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  And this is news... how exactly?
  Don't most companies ban using company funds to buy competitors' products for operational staff?
  Exactly. It's called "dog fooding", with the hopes that in using and depending on what you produce, you will have first hand experience as a user and you can know your customers better.
  I'll bet their R&D can still requisition whatever they want, though.
3. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:47 · Score: 0
  
  No. Most companies allow employees and managers to use their best judgment in selecting the best tools to get the job done.
4. Re:Right by courteaudotbiz · 2012-03-21 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  Well I guess some employees have tried to buy Apple stuff on their expense allocation. But this is completely nuts! Who are those Microsoft Employees who tried to do that? If I was their manager, I'd have fired them right away!
  Buying those Apple things for personal use with personal money is already a little tricky as a MS employee, let alone trying to have it free using the employer's money! How would these be useful to fulfill work tasks anyway?
5. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:49 · Score: 0
  
  When a company has to pass rules barring purchase competitive products, the better approach would be look at their own products and improve its quality. If your employees are buying a competitors products, there is certainly something wrong with your product.
  If a GM employee buying a Toyota doesnt send the right signal to the GM CEO that their product is inferior, no amount of company policies can get you out of the hole. Same goes for MS. This is an opportunity for them to look at why their employees are buying Apple products and try to get into that market. They are missing the golden opportunity here and brushing the dirt under the rug.
6. Re:Right by sideslash · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's news because the largest software company in the world is ignoring the fastest growing platform for software in the world, rather than writing software for it.
  Don't post about subjects you're unfamiliar with. Microsoft has always written a lot of software for the Mac, and even today has a bunch of stuff both released and in development for the iPad. It makes sense with their dogfooding policies to favor Windows stuff for their staff, but they are by no means "ignoring" iOS.
7. Re:Right by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-21 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  Probably... although- I suspect Microsoft's competitors can't do the same thing.
  Apple or Google would have a difficult time telling their company that money can't be spent on wintel machines. Apple probably could- but it would hurt their bottom line significantly.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
8. Re:Right by bkaul01 · 2012-03-21 07:00 · Score: 2
  
  Note that the restriction applies to certain divisions/classes of staff, and developers aren't among them. Salespeople don't need to purchase iPads. Developers might... Microsoft has released several smaller iOS apps (e.g. PhotoSynth); the question isn't whether they can develop for a competing platform, but whether it makes sense to shoot themselves in the foot by doing so at the expense of their own platforms. With WOA in Win8, there's an obvious tablet focus, and Office 15 is included with WOA versions of Win8, which implies that it could be a significant distinguishing feature: the message could end up being that Windows has Office and works well for content generation, while iOS is just for consumption, i.e. browsing, movies/games, etc. Not sure which strategy is best, but there is some logic to that one.
9. Re:Right by LostCluster · 2012-03-21 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  It's basically saying "If you don't work on software for Apple hardware, don't expect us to buy you a toy."
10. Re:Right by cpu6502 · 2012-03-21 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  PearPads?
  Penguin Wees?
  ;-)
  
  --
  My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
11. Re:Right by mevets · 2012-03-21 07:06 · Score: 2
  
  | Don't most companies ban using company funds to buy competitors' products for operational staff?
  It is interesting that they had to make a rule. That implies that a notable quantity of staff were choosing Apple products first.
  I worked at a now swallowed vendor of servers and workstations. Despite producing competing products, MicroSoft computers were commonplace until OS X came along. In a way, that was even stranger, since they were saying Apple's version of UNIX is better than ours.
12. Re:Right by meerling · 2012-03-21 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  All it takes is one.
13. Re:Right by fran6gagne · 2012-03-21 07:31 · Score: 1
  
  Don't most companies ban using company funds to buy competitors' products for operational staff?
  Especially, when said company produce products that can be used instead of competitor product. That is common sense in my opinion.
14. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  All it takes is one.
  I worked on the main Redmond campus over the summer and I frequently saw MacBook Pro's with Microsoft Asset tags on them.
15. Re:Right by dgatwood · 2012-03-21 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, this is probably a smart move. One of the reasons their products don't compete very well is that the people within their company who should be their target audience don't actually use the products they make, and thus don't report bugs, don't complain about the clunky interface, etc. By forcing their marketing people to "live on" their own stuff (dogfooding), eventually the quality should start to improve.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
16. Re:Right by sh00z · 2012-03-21 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  it is disturbing that the dogfood does not include an iOS app!
  But it does. I've been told (but haven't tried it myself) that the best panoramic photo stitching app available on iOS is Photosynth, by Microsoft.
17. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  I think most companies make it incredibly easy for employers to use their own products compared to competitors' products. Plus the culture shuns it too, so an outright ban is a bit...desperate. I live in Beaverton. Know people who work at Nike. There may be a ban for wearing non-nike shoes at least, but... if you could buy them at the company store for ridiculous discount why wouldn't you, at least for work?
18. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  Penguin Wees?
  Is that why the snow is yellow?
19. Re:Right by MightyYar · 2012-03-21 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  Cool, didn't know they had anything on there.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
20. Re:Right by GuldKalle · 2012-03-21 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Otherwise, it's not really a competitor product, is it?
  
  --
  What?
21. Re:Right by MightyYar · 2012-03-21 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  I won't second guess their strategy - I'm no longer a stockholder so I don't really care. But it is very surprising to me that when you search for Office apps on iOS devices you don't see any MS apps. If they are not careful they will lose their Office monopoly.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
22. Re:Right by MightyYar · 2012-03-21 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  You are absolutely right - I had no idea that there was anything for the iOS other than the Bing app. Thanks for correcting me.
  That said, where is MS Office? It's great that they have some free apps, but I don't see anything very ambitious on there. The only paid app I could find was from their games division.
  I don't think it makes sense to favor Windows in divisions that aren't related to Windows, but it's not my company to run. Dogfooding only makes sense when people who have the ability to actually change the product in some way are the ones forced to use it. Everywhere else you are just preventing people from doing their jobs more efficiently in the name of corporate unity.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
23. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:20 · Score: 0
  
  Try working in their Mac BU without one.
24. Re:Right by RandomStr · 2012-03-21 12:12 · Score: 1
  
  I was considering that, the R&D dept., but what would be the point, there's nothing to reverse engineer, it's all off the shelf, and both company use the same hardware(Both are intel/arm).
  
  Apart from the fact that you can't run the same software on both, the only difference is the UI, and there's not much difference there either.
  
  The biggest difference between the two company's is that one exclusively targets the consumer market(post-pc), and the other is still making the transition away from relevance.
  
  But as for what the title eluded, any Microsoft employee using apple products personal, is just asking to be let go!
  If a marketing campaign can get them, how could they be trusted with sensitive information...
25. Re:Right by Lussarn · 2012-03-21 12:54 · Score: 1
  
  There is no way Apple would let MS Office onto iOS. MS Office has extensive scripting capabilities, not allowed.
  "An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple's built-in WebKit framework."
26. Re:Right by sideslash · 2012-03-21 13:03 · Score: 1
  
  I think any office suite for iOS is likely to be stripped down versus its desktop counterpart, so I wouldn't see that as a deal breaker. I expect that MS Office for the iPad will probably show up sometime in 2012 - 2013, and Microsoft has hinted as much.
27. Re:Right by MightyYar · 2012-03-21 13:59 · Score: 1
  
  MS Office has extensive scripting capabilities, not allowed.
  MS Office for mac 2008 had no built-in scripting capabilities (no VBA), so it's not unprecedented.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
28. Re:Right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 03:35 · Score: 0
  
  Small companies, maybe. The rest of us have to use whatever crap the corporate office provides.
29. Re:Right by s73v3r · 2012-03-22 04:58 · Score: 1
  
  Kind of, but not really. If you have to put this in a policy, that means that your own employees think that a competitor's product is better for them. So you can either find out from them why they think the competitor's product is better, or you can take the easy way out and force your product down their throat.
30. Re:Right by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  I'd also guess the MBU can still requisition Apple kit, and use it without any fear of persecution.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
31. Re:Right by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  They have OneNote, which is a very good (and also free) competitor to Evernote - and is compatible with desktop OneNote notebooks. Lync is also available for corporate IM usage. PhotoSynth for panoramic photography, My Xbox Live for functionality equivalent to Xbox Companion on WP7, Windows Live Messenger for consumer IM. SkyDrive for "cloud storage". Kinectimals for ... er, virtual pets. Tag for something like QR codes. Halo Waypoint for all that Halo expansion stuff. And the Crafting Guide (strategy app for Age of Empires Online).
  There's also suspicion that there will be a cut down version of Word, Excel and PowerPoint for iPad at some point.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
32. Re:Right by MightyYar · 2012-03-22 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget Bing! LOL, yeah I got schooled - at least the moderation worked.
  I knew about the Bing app, but didn't really consider it worthy of mention - I was not aware of most of the others that you mention. It's good to see their games division seems to understand that it's OK to sell on the "other" platform (still no Android though). I hope you are right and their Office division sees the light as well. Microsoft didn't always have 100% of the desktop market, either, and yet somehow they managed to capture that market while selling their wares to owners of competing OSes.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
33. Re:Right by Kalriath · 2012-03-23 17:14 · Score: 1
  
  Well the Office team dipped their toes in the water with OneNote, so there's definitely hope they might see the light. Personally I'd love to see Word and Excel - the iWork apps on the iPad are quite clunky to use IMO.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Just like a lot of companies by g051051 · 2012-03-21 06:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

Lots of companies, including the one I work for, won't let you arbitrarily buy Apple products with company money.
1. Re:Just like a lot of companies by Skapare · 2012-03-21 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  Same for mine, except we are not allowed to buy Dell (everything). For Apple, it only applies to phone products.
  
  --
  now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
2. Re:Just like a lot of companies by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-03-21 07:35 · Score: 1
  
  Same for mine, except we are not allowed to buy Dell (everything).
  So with your company, the restriction is all about inferior crap.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
3. Re:Just like a lot of companies by houghi · 2012-03-21 07:38 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It is not just Apple. I was not allowed to buy a Learjet last week.
  
  --
  Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
4. Re:Just like a lot of companies by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:41 · Score: 0
  
  The rules apply to everyone.
  I had to forgo getting these for the office :(
  Steve B.
5. Re:Just like a lot of companies by ZaskarX · 2012-03-21 11:59 · Score: 2
  
  Let me guess...you work for Cessna?
I am no longer surprised. by aardvarkjoe · 2012-03-21 06:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Just when I thought that the quality level of Slashdot stories couldn't get any lower, samzenpus swoops in to prove me wrong.

--

How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
1. Re:I am no longer surprised. by Skapare · 2012-03-21 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  You must be new here.
  
  --
  now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
2. Re:I am no longer surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  I mostly come here to see the zealots and fanboys. I could write a simple little script to recite the content of 90% of the debates around here. Granted, mine would be more space-efficient and lack the verbosity and emotional weight in the real posts, but I think I have the psychological templates correct.
  Despite that, there are some occasional articles that are actual news, like the fun and creepy robotics, and the progress with DNI prosthetics.
3. Re:I am no longer surprised. by c0d3g33k · 2012-03-21 06:56 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I'm giving up my moderation rights for this discussion to say that the next improvement Slashdot should implement is to allow moderation of the stories themselves. I'd love to be able to browse stories on the main page (or in a personal newsfeed) using a filter setting of my choosing based on the moderated quality of a story rather than topic, submitter etc.
4. Re:I am no longer surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:04 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  What did you expect? The story had "Microsoft" in the title and ended with a question mark. This pretty much always means it's bollocks. See these examples of headline that would not technically be wrong, due to the question mark, but that are clearly inflamatory and designed for nothing more than page hits:
  "Apple CEO Steve Jobs spent $10 billion dollars on FUD campaigns?"
  "Google stole your credit card details?"
  On that note, I think just to prove the point I'll publish my own little mini story within this thread to prove the point:
  Samzenpus is a child rapist?
  =====================
  It turns out that a guy was arrested for child abuse earlier this year who held the same first name as Samzenpus, could it therefore in fact be Samzenpus himself who raped these children?
5. Re:I am no longer surprised. by synapse7 · 2012-03-21 07:37 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Think how surprised he would be when such story is posted again hours later.
6. Re:I am no longer surprised. by webheaded · 2012-03-21 07:39 · Score: 2
  
  So you want...Reddit? :p
  
  --
  "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
7. Re:I am no longer surprised. by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2012-03-21 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  I mostly come here to see the zealots and fanboys...
  Same. There is definitely something entertaining about winding up somebody with too much of an opinion.
  I'm disappointed, though, that the reports of the new iPads overheating hasn't made it here. It seems like a 'duh' story to me, it's yet another reason to rag about Apple. What bugs me, though, is that's actually an important issue for the people who bought those iPads needs to know about. Slashdot could be fanning the flames and being informative at the same time.
  Oh well, at least we got to revisit Microsoft hate today. Pity it's not as effective as it would have been a few years ago, most of the responses came from people that actually read the article.
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
8. Re:I am no longer surprised. by sloth+jr · 2012-03-21 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  As someone mentioned - Firehose.
  
  Unrelated to anything you or anyone else said, I'd prefer a feature that didn't enable comments posting or moderation unless you read the story...
9. Re:I am no longer surprised. by AbRASiON · 2012-03-21 12:29 · Score: 1
  
  Please don't, I don't browse Digg or Reddit for a reason. I'm quite happy with 95% of slashdot articles just as they are thank you very much.
A company dictating how company funds can be used? by Kenja · 2012-03-21 06:37 · Score: 1

Say its not so! Save us Captain Capitalism!

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
This is not news by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 1

barred staffers from using expense allocations for competing smartphone platforms
In other news, Ford announced that staffers are barred from using the company expense account to buy Toyotas.
1. Re:This is not news by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-03-21 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  Well, not really the same thing. Ford makes a bunch of different vehicles that will fit the needs of any driver. Microsoft has shit for smartphones and almost no vendor support. You can get just about any piece of productivity software and platform tie-in you'll ever need on iOS, Blackberry, and Android platforms but WinMo has been a desert for years. I know. I've seen me use it. And iOS is the first to get support in most cases. Then Blackberry. Then Android. Then, if the intern is still around, WinMo.
2. Re:This is not news by geminidomino · 2012-03-21 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  It's not really unreasonable, though, that Microsoft expects you to buy your OWN iPhone if you love it so much. If you're any good at your job (based on the fact that you HAVE an expense account) then you can afford it. Why should they pay for your toys?
  
  I know. I've seen me use it.
  Ron White fan, by any chance?
3. Re:This is not news by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-03-21 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  Why should an employee be required to purchase their own equipment? This is about equipment purchased with expense allocations so it's reasonable to assume that the purchases are work related, not personal.
  To put it bluntly, Microsoft's tools haven't kept up with the competition in the mobile arena. Now, because their employer has inferior tools, the employees have to either work with crap or spend their personal money to be competitive in the workplace. I know Microsoft has big plans for Windows 8 and WinMo 8 but those things don't exist now and, no matter how good they may be when they arrive, it'll still take 6-12 months from launch for industry apps and connectivity to hit the platform.
  Of course, my rant only applies to the phone/tablet aspect of the situation.
4. Re:This is not news by geminidomino · 2012-03-21 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Why should an employee be required to purchase their own equipment? This is about equipment purchased with expense allocations so it's reasonable to assume that the purchases are work related, not personal.
  Clearly.
  
  To put it bluntly, Microsoft's tools haven't kept up with the competition in the mobile arena. Now, because their employer has inferior tools, the employees have to either work with crap or spend their personal money to be competitive in the workplace.
  It would seem that Microsoft disagrees with you, and expense account abuse for fancy toys that offer no real benefit to the work at hand is an old, old problem (I'm pretty sure it's existed since about 3 days after the first expense account was authorized).
  I'm one of those hold-outs who has yet to see any actual real benefit of tablets other than entertainment consumption. Nothing job-related that these people could do couldn't be done just as well (and better) on a laptop running Windows Whatever.
  It's really a stretch to claim some sort of malice in not feeding the competition for their 'cool factor,' especially in customer-facing roles.
  Can't speak for the phones. I've used Android, IOS, And WinMo (Up to 6, not the new one), and none of them have been worth a fuck for anything I couldn't do on a dumb feature phone, except the Palm Pro (WinMo) had a passable GPS in TeleNav.
5. Re:This is not news by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  Given that you don't even know that it's called "Windows Phone", not "Windows Mobile" (that latter was the previous incarnation, and it's vastly different), have you actually used one to state so assuredly that it is inferior for workplace use?
Why is this news? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 0

Makes perfect sense to me, if we are talking about company funds. It is Microsoft's money and they can define who the money can or can't be spent. Now, if they were blocking employees from buying Apple devices with their own money, then this would be news. Since it is not the case, move along....move along...nothing to see here.
True for Any Large Corporation? by gregarican · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 2

Company expenses cannot be used by employees for purchasing competing products? I'm aghast with surprise! Oh yeah, this is Microsoft we are talking about. So it's news *rolls eyes*
So what? by Enry · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 2

Company tries to prevent sending money to its rivals. Film at 11.
1. Re:So what? by mjwx · 2012-03-21 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  Company tries to prevent sending money to its rivals. Film at 11.
  A company like Microsoft will be paying half what you do for Dell's, HP, Asus or almost any other brand. Apple on the other hand will be at almost full retail price, if not at full retail price.
  
  I worked in a company of 100, Dell would give us an instant 10% of any Latitude order, if we ordered 10 or more monitors, another instant 10% off, sometimes 15%. Now that's for an SME of less then 100 people, that's a discount, what MS has is wholesale. Wholesale is an entirely new level of discount entirely as one order at cost + $2 earns more profit then my 5 years of orders at that SME.
  
  Retailers were bending over backwards for the business dollar with all kinds of deals and upgrades, except when it comes to Apple, never once got a discount of a list price, not ever.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
"With company funds" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

"With company funds" being the keywords here.
1. Re:"With company funds" by LordLimecat · 2012-03-21 07:32 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It warms my heart to see that everyone saw that key phrase and pointed it out rather than descending to a frenzy of fanboism and irrational argument over platforms.
In other news by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 0

the employee cafeteria at Coca-Cola headquarters does not offer Pepsi.
1. Re:In other news by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-21 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  Ugh! Wouldn't want to work for Coca Cola then! :)
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
Sounds Reasonable by donleyp · 2012-03-21 06:39 · Score: 5, Informative

Do you think that there are any people at Apple with Windows laptops? Probably a few, but talk about a career limiting move :) Fun fact: new employees at Google are told that "they better have a good reason" if they request a Windows laptop for their primary machine.

--
You got any karma man? I really neeed it. Just a little hit! Come on!
1. Re:Sounds Reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:50 · Score: 0
  
  Apple makes Safari, iTunes and QuickTime for Windows. My bet is though they're running Windows on Apple hardware.
2. Re:Sounds Reasonable by slew · 2012-03-21 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  Fun fact: new employees at Google are told that "they better have a good reason" if they request a Windows laptop for their primary machine.
  Given that Apple has google in their crosshairs over android, I shutter to think how good an ubuntu laptop as a primary machine would be if they wanted to avoid windows laptops and they didn't want to make Apple's warchest any larger... Hopefully ubuntu has gotten better at power management on laptops since I last checked...
3. Re:Sounds Reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  The reason for that is security. Google china was hacked because of an IE/Microsoft exploit.
  Google employees are free to use any software/hardware as long as it's secure. There are a lot of apple products in use.
4. Re:Sounds Reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  Does 'Chrome OS is crap' count as a good reason?
5. Re:Sounds Reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 05:33 · Score: 0
  
  "new employees at Google are told that "they better have a good reason" if they request a Windows laptop for their primary machine"
  Seeing as how Google only hires the smartest people available, I suspect this is a rare scenario.
Watch their productivity drop... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:40 · Score: 0

I bet the department starts bleeding money into spending more time on things that would have been done faster had they used iPads, etc.
1. Re:Watch their productivity drop... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, when I think iPads and other toy tablets, I think "productivity". Yeah. Totally.
  You fanbois need to grow up. Tablets are toys, and will likely remain so until Windows 8 comes out. And even that might not fix them.
2. Re:Watch their productivity drop... by DeathElk · 2012-03-21 12:39 · Score: 0
  
  Those shutters you have on so tightly will fare you well as you progress through life/career/etc
Breaking news by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:41 · Score: 0

When my brother stocked shelves for Coke, he wasn't allowed to drink Pepsi on the job (paid for with his own money). I'm sure any company would love a photo of a competitor's employee using their product. This seems completely reasonable to me. Nothing in there says they can't buy an iPad and use it at home.
The Car Analogy by jdastrup · 2012-03-21 06:41 · Score: 4, Informative

And Ford employees are only giving a discount when buying Ford cars, and only specific Ford cars. It doesn't stop them from buying a different car with their own money for their own personal use.

Interesting, though, that it's only certain departments, not the entire company. Going back to Ford, many of the senior levels I knew were allowed to buy (or at least drive company-owned cars) that were the competition. They claimed it helped them learn about the competition. I have no problem with that.
1. Re:The Car Analogy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  If nothing else, the department that works on the Microsoft website probably has Apple devices in order to test.
2. Re:The Car Analogy by sqlrob · 2012-03-21 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  It's kind of hard to develop Office for the iPad or Mac if you're not allowed to buy any. So yeah, it does make sense that it's limited to certain departments.
  That also means that the ban doesn't make much sense even for Sales, since they'll have to demo the things that run on Apple.
3. Re:The Car Analogy by UnknowingFool · 2012-03-21 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  I would say that only the Office for Mac people (sales, developers) would be allowed to have Macs. Everyone else has to justify why.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
4. Re:The Car Analogy by SleazyRidr · 2012-03-21 07:03 · Score: 1
  
  I have heard that only Fords were allowed to park in the parking lots at the Ford plants back in the olden days. You could go and buy a Dodge if you wanted one, but you'd have to walk to work.
  
  --
  Is 1563649 a prime number?
5. Re:The Car Analogy by jdastrup · 2012-03-21 07:07 · Score: 1
  
  If you had a Dodge you had to walk to work cause your car was in the shop.
6. Re:The Car Analogy by Americano · 2012-03-21 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting, though, that it's only certain departments, not the entire company.
  Somebody at Microsoft kind of needs to have a Mac if they're doing to keep writing the OS X version of Office; They also have iOS clients for Skydrive, their XBox Live gaming platform, and reports of an Office for iOS product have been floating around for a while now.
  Microsoft *is* actively developing for these platforms, so if they put a blanket ban across the company, that would kind of hinder the efforts of those groups to produce a product.
7. Re:The Car Analogy by lakeland · 2012-03-21 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think the analogy is quite right, though it's close.
  It's like Ford instructing its sales team - if you're using company money to buy a car for going to sales meetings then you may only buy a Ford. If you're buying for yourself then you can do what you like, though of course we'd prefer you buy Ford. And if you're in crash research and needing to compare how other cars handle things then you can keep buying them too.
  Had MS done anything else I would have found it strange
8. Re:The Car Analogy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 02:55 · Score: 0
  
  No, that would be the Found On Road, Dead.
9. Re:The Car Analogy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 05:00 · Score: 0
  
  This doesn't impact developers.
10. Re:The Car Analogy by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  You have to justify why every time you make a purchase using company funds... for hardware, normally, there are some stock hardware configs that you get to choose from no questions asked (basically vetted by IT for support and/or having a special deal with the manufacturer); and for hardware upgrades, some things are again pretty basic (need 8Gb more RAM for each of your ten dev machines? sure, just stick to this particular brand).
  But if you're asking for some specific type of hardware that's not "stock", you'll need an explanation for why you need it, whether it's Apple or not.
So? by Peristaltic · 2012-03-21 06:42 · Score: 1

...from using company funds to purchase any products produced by Apple.
While it makes me want to ask "why?" when I first read this, I would say that it's entirely reasonable for Microsoft to decide what equipment Microsoft funds are used to purchase.
1. Re:So? by lightknight · 2012-03-21 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  I see that point.
  On the other hand, assuming programmers are grouped in with IT, it could be a bad thing. You'd want them to know what they're competing with, and to understand why a rival's product is so popular.
  
  --
  I am John Hurt.
2. Re:So? by Peristaltic · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  ... assuming programmers are grouped in with IT, it could be a bad thing. You'd want them to know what they're competing with, and to understand why a rival's product is so popular.
  Good point; I wouldn't be surprised if individual exceptions were made by management on an "as needed" basis.
3. Re:So? by prisoner-of-enigma · 2012-03-21 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  On the other hand, assuming programmers are grouped in with IT, it could be a bad thing. You'd want them to know what they're competing with, and to understand why a rival's product is so popular.
  
  Given that Apple products still occupy less than 10% of the market share (excluding educational markets where Apple is grossly over-represented), the whole "product is so popular" argument falls kinda flat.
  Now if you're talking smartphones you've got a point. Unless you work for Google, that is, since Android garnered 52% of the worldwide smartphone market last November.
  The only place Apple is unchallenged is with tablets.
  
  --
  In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
4. Re:So? by lightknight · 2012-03-21 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  In clarification, I was referencing the markets that Apple is dominating in.
  
  --
  I am John Hurt.
5. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:01 · Score: 0
  
  On the other hand, assuming programmers are grouped in with IT...
  They're not.
This is getting boring by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:45 · Score: 0

Everyone has basically the same reaction. So how about...
Microsoft is finally showing leadership on the issues of working conditions of Foxconn employees, and on the trade imbalance between China and the US.
1. Re:This is getting boring by Peristaltic · 2012-03-21 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure that's foremost in their decision-making process. Someone please mod this "Funny".
2. Re:This is getting boring by drodal · 2012-03-21 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  at this point i might think the folks at microsoft are saying: "how can we leverage this foxconn thing to get us more profit, apple has some good ideas sometimes!"
3. Re:This is getting boring by Kalriath · 2012-03-22 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft hardware (Xbox) is already made by Foxconn.... so I'm at a loss.
  
  --
  For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Microsoft Barring Staff From Buying Apple Stuff? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:45 · Score: 1

So it has come to this.
Remaining aware of the competition's progress? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:46 · Score: 0

What about remaining aware of the competition's progress? How can you truly grasp (to compete with) a product like Siri if you don't own an iPhone?
They didn't list the ... by Skapare · 2012-03-21 06:48 · Score: 0, Troll

... Reverse Engineering department in that ban. I wonder what's up with that omission. Oh wait.

--
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Wasn't someone fired from MSFT for posting pix... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:49 · Score: 0

... of them purchasing several Macs? This had to be a few years ago at least. They had taken pictures of at least a few dozen G4 or G5 Mac desktops sitting on a receiving dock at Microsoft HQ in Washington. The (ex-)employee apparently was fired for revealing proprietary information about the company rather than necessarily "revealing" that the company happened to be buying Macs, which seemed like a "so what" kind of revelation anyway, given Microsoft DOES very successfully develop a lot of software for the Mac.
Why is this a story? by Karmashock · 2012-03-21 06:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm pretty sure apple has similar rules about buying MS products with company funds.
Would apple be okay with their employees buying lots of MS mobile phones using company resources? I doubt it. Sure, there's not much chance of them choosing to do that but the reality is that no company is going to be happy about it's employees using company resources to buy a competitor's products.

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1. Re:Why is this a story? by KrazyDave · 2012-03-21 07:08 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't need similar rules about buying MS products.
  
  --
  www.chihuahuarescue.com- Help to end dog abuse, abandonment and cruelty
2. Re:Why is this a story? by fermion · 2012-03-21 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  I would think that MS Office may be on many employee machines at Apple. I would also think that many machines would have MS Windows to demo how Bootcamp works, though maybe they are using VMBox. As far as hardware, MS does not make computers, so that is a non issue. I suspect that if Apple has lounges and game rooms, an xBox 360 would be present.
  As far as Phones, I suspect that Apple has the same policy that 90% of the US has. That the phones are garbage.
  
  --
  "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
3. Re:Why is this a story? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  Well, I'm sure Apple has a prohibition on the books somewhere against "wasting company money." That ought to cover it, there's no need for them to specifically single out Microsoft.
  If they do that, they'd have to start enacting specific rules against sending company money to Nigerian princes, Amway, and Bernie Madoff, too. No, keep it simple I say - one catch-all rule against waste that covers all of them.
4. Re:Why is this a story? by mbkennel · 2012-03-21 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  A Friend Of A Friend said that they have donation boxes and huge pictures of sad, big-eyed puppy-faced programmers outside the iTunes for Windows development offices. "In some places, even in California, not everybody is a hipster. You can sponsor a suffering developer for only 3 espressos a day!"
5. Re:Why is this a story? by Karmashock · 2012-03-21 10:53 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure if ol' steve jobs saw some employees walking around with MS products he might well have fired them on the spot.
  Admit it... the man was like that.
  Just have some perspective here. It keeps people honest.
  
  --
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6. Re:Why is this a story? by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, for Apple of all companies, I would fully expect them to be using Pages, Numbers etc instead of Office.
  But, yeah, you can't get away from Windows if only for iTunes and Bootcamp developers.
Microsoft is just worried about loss . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2012-03-21 06:50 · Score: 1

. . . new exciting Apple products seem to get lost in bars, grabbed by Hollywood stars and tossed through Windows(tm) or face similar more dreadful fates . . .
. . . Microsoft is just concerned about their potential loss of property/capital . . .

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
This applies to everyone but... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 0

The only team that receives the exemption is people who work on the Microsoft Office for Mac product.
Makes Perfect Sense by BlastfireRS · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 1

If Apple were a competitor to my products, I'd absolutely prevent employees from using company funds to purchase Macs. If we're a BYOD shop, with devices purchased with private money, then no problem...but I'm not helping out a rival, especially given the cost of Apple's hardware.
I do find it kind of interesting that they've waited this long to blatantly say it, though. Perhaps they're now starting to see Apple as a more viable competitor to their interests?
1. Re:Makes Perfect Sense by UnknowingFool · 2012-03-21 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps they are starting to get more requests for Macs in a halo effect. Certainly with millions of iPad /iPhone sales, some of them were bought by MS employees. J. Allard used a Mac in his time at MS which may have irked Gates and Ballmer.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
You think it's odd? by p0p0 · 2012-03-21 06:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

What until we find out employee paychecks are considered company funds and they aren't allowed to purchase them with their own money.
This could be a problem by jandrese · 2012-03-21 06:57 · Score: 0

The next Mac version of Office is going to suck even more isn't it? It's going to be hard to debug when they don't have a platform to run it on.

Also, expect even more interoperability issues in the future, because everybody loves when their stuff doesn't work, right?

--

I read the internet for the articles.
1. Re:This could be a problem by UnknowingFool · 2012-03-21 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure this policy doesn't apply to developers and sales people who work on Mac products. Unless MS has an OS X emulator I don't know about.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Wrong headline by LostCluster · 2012-03-21 07:00 · Score: 1

The summary makes it clear that the employees just can't use company funds to buy Apple products... and the programmers who make Microsoft's software for Apple platforms are not in the group this affects. It's basically saying "Don't use your expense account for toys we don't need." The employees involved are free to spend their paycheck at the Apple Store however they want... not really a ban as much as it's adding these two items to things Microsoft won't pay for.
Slashdot sucks by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:03 · Score: 0

Can't make a case honestly? Just make crap sound like something it isn't to get page hits.

We really need to start boycotting the advertisers until Slashdot straightens up and flies right.
1. Re:Slashdot sucks by drodal · 2012-03-21 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  yawn......... really boycott will anyone notice?
slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:06 · Score: 1

I stopped reading at "from using company funds to purchase..."
Why the hell is this an issue? Not being able to buy competing products with company funds seems like a pretty normal policy to me.
Congratulations! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:09 · Score: 0

You've just made the stoooopid post of the day.
This is a singular honor; there are many stupid posts made on Slashdot, but yours ignore logic, reason, experience, and pretty much any kind of thoughtfulness.
Why? We frankly don't care here at prize headquarters. Its really stupid, you've won, and its something that can never be taken away from you.
Enjoy!
1. Re:Congratulations! by jandrese · 2012-03-22 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  I need a tongue-in-cheek tag apparently. Apparently this flew over too many people's head.
  
  --
  
  I read the internet for the articles.
Just like at Coke or PepsiCo by HockeyPuck · 2012-03-21 07:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

At Coca Cola, you can't even talk about P*psi based products, bring one in to work or eat at their sponsored establishments.
As a comparison... here's Coca Cola's list of brands.
So "don't buy a iPhone with MSFT's company's funds" is a lot easier than "don't consume our competitors products while on business." Not so easy when you're flying and you want a drink and the only drinks that the airline carries are from your competitor...
1. Re:Just like at Coke or PepsiCo by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  And Walm*rt employees aren't allowed to refer to deadlines as "target dates".
2. Re:Just like at Coke or PepsiCo by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:44 · Score: 1
  
  Clearly you shouldn't be flying on that airline.
3. Re:Just like at Coke or PepsiCo by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:04 · Score: 0
  
  So "don't buy a iPhone with MSFT's company's funds" is a lot easier than "don't consume our competitors products while on business." Not so easy when you're flying and you want a drink and the only drinks that the airline carries are from your competitor...
  You can solve this problem by resolving to only drink alcohol on airplanes.
Think about it this way... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:13 · Score: 0

Microsoft employees spending company funds on competitor's equipment/software is kinda like Coca-Cola stocking their cafeteria vending machines with Pepsi products (You won't see Fritos or Lays either since they're also Pepsico's products).
Ah, stupid manager alert! by SmallFurryCreature · 2012-03-21 07:19 · Score: 1, Troll

Cpu6502 will no doubt rush through the ranks as a manager because he has the usual manager capability to confuse the disease with the symptom.
Car companies often have the parking lot filled with the companies cars and NOT because of any guidelines (cars are after all privately bought by the people in production) but because the employees feel connected to the company and are proud of what they produce.
MS clearly is totally unable to inspire loyalty in its employees to feel proud of what they produce and want to show it. You can then put out a guideline forcing people to show fake pride but then you are just fighting the symptom, not the disease. If MS can't even build products good enough that people who want to work for you want to have the products... they got no chance in hell of selling to the rest of us. Eat your own dog food and if you got to beat the god to get it to eat, you failed.
The next stupid thing Cpu6502 says, is that this is all the same as giving staff a discount for the companies products... duh... does anyone really think that an MS employee buying a MS product with MS funds pays full price?
This is NOT just MS employees choosing to buy a rival companies product with their own money (already bad enough) but them buying another companies product for company use with company funds.
It would as if DAF trucks bought Ford trucks to deliver its trucks.
And you can then write a snooty little note that they shouldn't do that OR you can hold a very urgent and deep enquiry into why this is happening. Why are MS products so fucking bad that people risk their job promotion changes or at least incoming chairs for work related productivity tools?
If you have a restaurant and all your employees go outside to lunch, would you ban them, or test the food? Choice 1: Congrats, you are a manager. Here is your MBA and a million dollar bonus... Choice 2??? Loser.
I hate this planet.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
1. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  You almost made sense. But then again, Microsoft doesn't make a competitor to an iPad. So people don't have to "not be proud" of what they produce to decide they would like a lite OS slate (such as iPad, Galaxy Tab, etc.). Microsoft also doesn't make their own phone (no, Nokia is not theirs today). They make their own OS for phones, but the hardware is not theirs. I can see management there preferring that customer facing folks use Windows Phones when they are bought with corporate money - but truthfully Microsoft did away with corporate funding for phones a few years ago anyway and employees must buy their own phone.
  
  So - Slates - they don't make one. Phones - the company doesn't buy them anyway.
2. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2012-03-21 07:45 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Cpu6502 will no doubt rush through the ranks as a manager because he has the usual manager capability to confuse the disease with the symptom.
  Car companies often have the parking lot filled with the companies cars and NOT because of any guidelines (cars are after all privately bought by the people in production) but because the employees feel connected to the company and are proud of what they produce.
  While they may be proud of what they produce , most also get a sizable company discount. For many, wallet no doubt wins over price.
  
  MS clearly is totally unable to inspire loyalty in its employees to feel proud of what they produce and want to show it. You can then put out a guideline forcing people to show fake pride but then you are just fighting the symptom, not the disease. If MS can't even build products good enough that people who want to work for you want to have the products... they got no chance in hell of selling to the rest of us. Eat your own dog food and if you got to beat the god to get it to eat, you failed.
  No, they're saying that you can't use MS funds to pay for Apple products or phone bills for non-MS phones. Not unreasonable, and quite frankly having them use their products can also result in some real world feedback on what works and what doesn't. Do employees prefer Apple products? Probably,and I'd bet it was a big enough percentage that MS decided to stop paying for competitors products. I had a friend who filled up his company car with a competitors gasoline - and got a note back, after he expensed it, from his boss saying "we don't buy non- Union 76 gas with company funds."
  I do agree that the company discount argument is irrelevant and MS should see why employees prefer Apple products to their competing ones; but that is separate form putting money in a competitor's pocket.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
3. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:48 · Score: 0
  
  Car manufacturing plants are filled with the same companies cars because of the signs around the lots saying something along the lines of 'Free parking for this company's models only'.
4. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by HornWumpus · 2012-03-21 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  That and the UAW will destroy any car in the lot not made by the UAW.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
5. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:02 · Score: 0
  
  Car manufacturing plants are filled with the same companies cars because of the signs around the lots saying something along the lines of 'Free parking for this company's models only'.
  Actually, they're filled with the companies cars because the union guys will key a foreign car on the lot and sometimes they take that further and lash out at domestic competitors cars ( though I have not heard many cases of that ). Most the engineering facilities don't have this phenomenon with the exception of the Chrysler HQ and Tech Center where policy is that only Chrysler cars are allowed in the main parking structure. The rest are fine, but you have to park in the back lot. To see the difference Look here.
6. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by digitalsolo · 2012-03-21 09:00 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I have several friends that work at a local (large) GM plant. Not all of them drive GM, or even domestic or UAW produced vehicles. That said, if you drive a non-GM vehicle, you have to park at the far lot; GM vehicle drivers are welcome to park much closer.
  
  --
  Just another ignorant American.
7. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:14 · Score: 0
  
  I hate this planet.
  With all the whining you do, no doubt the planet hates you as well.
  
  ...snooty little note...
  "Snooty"?? Really?? Ad hominem or not, your posts sound like sobs on a YouTube video: Leave Michael alooone!!!
8. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by afidel · 2012-03-21 09:19 · Score: 0
  
  It's similar at the Ford plants here, though I'm not sure I've ever seen a foreign nameplate vehicle. Heck my dad still drives only domestic nameplate vehicles even though he no longer has any contracts with the big 3 and in fact has contracts with suppliers for Nissan and Honda because for many years almost 50% of his income came from the big 3.
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
9. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:22 · Score: 0
  
  Cue the sobbing and tears: Leave Apple alooone!!!
10. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by HornWumpus · 2012-03-21 09:46 · Score: 2
  
  I have a friend who worked for GM. He drove his Honda to the plant once.
  Four cut tires, all the glass broken, punctured radiator, pry marks on the gas gap cover. He assumes they were interrupted.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
11. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:48 · Score: 0
  
  You should kill yourself, then you won't have to live here
12. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:01 · Score: 0
  
  MS isn't letting it's marketroids buy iPhones with company money. That makes sense. If I was sitting down with Apple to negotiate a corporate purchase and his WP7 phone went off, well...
13. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:09 · Score: 0
  
  They were just trying to steal the best car on the lot.
14. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 11:21 · Score: 0
  
  Everyone knows the best goddamn car on the lot is a '64 Chevy Malibu.
15. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 17:07 · Score: 0
  
  Eat your own dog food and if you got to beat the god to get it to eat, you failed.
  SmallFurryCreature has obviously rushed into this without thinking. What competitor does MS have to the iPad or Macbook? None, so SmallFurryCreature's logic does not follow. They just don't want their people advertising Apple, if it were a matter of using the competitions products they would simply be mandating that Macbooks have Windows 7 installed on them (in fact any in use there most likely do anyway), but they're not doing that because that's obviously not the issue at all, yet SmallFurryCreature seems to be having extreme difficulty understanding that.
16. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 21:34 · Score: 0
  
  This is the America I love.
17. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 07:55 · Score: 0
  
  Leave SmallFurryCreature alooone!!!
18. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-23 03:23 · Score: 0
  
  Soooo, you're saying GM employees can be dickheads? I'll admit that it would make sense to want fellow employees to buy the company products (if they were good), but it's this kind of intolerance by blue collar flag wavers that annoys the crap out of me. Buy what you want with your money, I'll buy what I want with mine.
19. Re:Ah, stupid manager alert! by HornWumpus · 2012-03-23 11:02 · Score: 1
  
  My understanding is that it is UAW policy that any non-UAW car parked in a 'UAW plant' lot be trashed.
  If you ask for the security tape, it is made clear that you had better drop it.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Using company funds by nurb432 · 2012-03-21 07:24 · Score: 1

Non story. Slow news day eh?

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Hopefully you will never be in that position by SmallFurryCreature · 2012-03-21 07:26 · Score: 2

Really, the first thing that comes to your mind when you are the owner of a product and your own people prefer to face your wrath by buying from the competitor to do their work rather then use their own product, is to ban them?
You wouldn't consider maybe asking them WHY the competitor product is the preferred choice?
And this is hardly news, MS pulled something similar when the Zune was flopping hard and MS employees brought their iPod's to work.
And MS yet again totally fails to ask WHY people prefer to buy ANYTHING else over their products. MS Phone 7 is just the latest in a long line. Is there even a MS tablet out there that MS employees can buy?
It doesn't even solve anything, if MS employees are forced to buy stuff they don't want, they will just hate it and their hatred will be seen by others. You want your employees to be advocates of your product. Not the condemned acting as a warning of the misery that comes with your company.
Or do you think it is good advertising for a restaurant if guests can see your employees vomiting out the employees lunch?

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
1. Re:Hopefully you will never be in that position by BlastfireRS · 2012-03-21 07:52 · Score: 2
  
  You could very well ask them why they prefer a competitor's products; I'd encourage anyone in this situation (including Microsoft) to do so. There's a huge difference, however, between allowing employees to bring in their personal Macs for work purposes and allowing employees to use your hardware refresh funding or hardware stipends on an excessively expensive competitor's product. The whole situation regarding banning iPods was ridiculous, and they were rightly mocked for doing so. Still, this scenario is about what Microsoft allows to be done with its own money, and I can't particularly demonize them for making this choice.
2. Re:Hopefully you will never be in that position by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-22 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  Really, the first thing that comes to your mind when you are the owner of a product and your own people prefer to face your wrath by buying from the competitor to do their work rather then use their own product
  Thing is, you don't need the competing product to do your work. Nothing that people do as part of work can't be done just as efficiently with WP7 as it can with iPhone, for example. If anything, WP7 actually has better Exchange, SharePoint and Lync integration, which covers about 99% of what people actually use them for (in fact, for most, they really only use Exchange client there, for mail and meeting organizer).
  
  And MS yet again totally fails to ask WHY people prefer to buy ANYTHING else over their products. MS Phone 7 is just the latest in a long line.
  More than half of all smartphones you see walking around on the campus are WP7.
  
  Is there even a MS tablet out there that MS employees can buy?
  
  There's no good tablet OS from MS yet, so no. That said, Win8 is in beta, and many people are pretty happy using it on a Samsung Series 7. Still, it's not an iPad-style tablet - it's considerably heavier, and considerably more powerful. iPad competitors will have to wait until Win8 is out on ARM, and the first devices hit the shelves.
Re:Wasn't someone fired from MSFT for posting pix. by Interfacer · 2012-03-21 07:28 · Score: 1

IIRC, the problem was not that the existence of macs was acknowledge, but rather that employees are specifically forbidden from taking pictures and publishing them to the world without proper authorization. This is standard practice.
I sometimes take pics at work with my cellphone, for internal purposes. If I were to post them on my blog (because e.g. I thought they were interesting) without approval form a director, I would be kicked out as well.
OK, I have honest questions: by Kagetsuki · 2012-03-21 07:29 · Score: 1

Does Apple forbid their employees to purchase Windows PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc. with company money? ... would they even need to?
I mean MS has every right to forbid this, and anything short of research into the competition shouldn't warrant use of company funds to purchase these things anyway. The fact MS employees would have the gaull and disloyalty to bring those things into the office alone is disrespectful. Trying to get the company to pay for them is flat out insulting. If your employees don't believe in your own products enough to use them themselves you should probably question weather or not you want to keep them - if they actually try and use money to buy your competitors products you should probably fire them. I mean I hate MS (and Apple), but if I was an empoyee and they were paying my bills I'd at least try and believe in the company vision enough to not bring competitors products into the office or use them for work.
1. Re:OK, I have honest questions: by DeathElk · 2012-03-21 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  If your employees don't believe in your own products enough to use them themselves you should probably question weather or not you want to keep them
  Management with insight would question why their own employees don't believe in their employer's products. The approach you describe is merely pulling wool over one's eyes.
Why not windows on apple? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:33 · Score: 0

Wouldn't it be funnier to just let them buy the hardware but blow away the OS and put Windows on it instead?
Then when they go to clients the line would be "yea we blew that Mac OS away and put a real Enterprise OS on this pretty hardware. Most execs just want the pretty hardware anyway. The IT people want something they can manage. And look how great it runs!"
1. Re:Why not windows on apple? by DeathElk · 2012-03-21 12:59 · Score: 1
  
  People buy Macs for the full Mac experience, including OSX.
2. Re:Why not windows on apple? by Ash-Fox · 2012-03-21 19:38 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it be funnier to just let them buy the hardware but blow away the OS and put Windows on it instead?
  Then when they go to clients the line would be "yea we blew that Mac OS away and put a real Enterprise OS on this pretty hardware. Most execs just want the pretty hardware anyway. The IT people want something they can manage. And look how great it runs!"
  People buy Macs for the full Mac experience, including OSX.
  Why does Linden Research, Inc. use Macs to run Windows then?
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Microsoft Barring Staff From Buying Apple Stuff by ericloewe · 2012-03-21 07:34 · Score: 1

You might as well quote it: http://xkcd.com/1022/
I don't mind at all by farcedude · 2012-03-21 07:35 · Score: 1

Heck, I don't mind this one bit - I'm flying through Seattle with a 10 hour layover next Tuesday, and I was hoping to be able to pick up an iPad without paying sales tax (residents of certain other states don't pay sales tax in WA). I know the last time I was there, in October, I was able to find iPhones for my parents at a Best Buy in Bellevue (right next to Redmond), and I'm hoping I'll be able to pick up an iPad at the same place.
Re:Bad move by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:36 · Score: 0

I often wonder if the US automotive industry would have persisted in making poor quality cars for so long if they allowed employees to drive competitors products.
Apple doesn't give a fuck what everyone else does and that works out quite well for them. Eat your own dog food.
double-edged sword by v1 · 2012-03-21 07:38 · Score: 1

They do get the benefit from being able to ask their employees "WHY are you buying this instead of OUR product?" (which they are probably also getting a discount on) This is a valuable opportunity to discover what part of the market their product isn't properly capturing, instead of listening to the "we are perfect!" line from marketing and development.
The downside of this is that you have a P.R. problem when the press relishes in doing stories about how many of your own employees prefer the competition.
But this isn't about "personal preference" so much because (as many have already pointed out) this is about purchases on the company dime, for use in-house. In that case it takes on a slightly different tact of showing that the management really DOES believe that their product is superior in all respects. A responsible manager makes purchasing decisions based on bang-for-the-buck, at least where purchasing dollars matter. (which, admittedly, for MS may not matter) They get their employees the right tools for the job, even if the competition happens to sell a tool that does the job better than their own brand, assuming the price is right. Naturally in-house purchase of own brand costs less, but that doesn't guarantee it to always be the best choice. Managers telling their employees they can't buy what they believe is the most effective tool, due to personal bias, is just plain bad management. Most department managers can only excel when they allow job performance to override politics.
Does anyone think that the bean counters at Apple use Numbers to do all their spreadsheets? heh... of course many do, they all have it freely available, but many use Excel because its the better spreadsheet. Excel has numbers whupped good. They use the right tool for the job, even if it's a competing brand. And it enables them to do their jobs more effectively. And though I don't know for certain, I'd be willing to bet they've asked their employees on more than one occasion what they could do to improve Numbers to make it a stronger option against Excel.

--
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
This is only news because they allowed that before by RonVNX · 2012-03-21 07:40 · Score: 1

This is only news to the extent that Microsoft had a dumb policy that allowed such purchases to begin with. Imagine instead the headline read "Oracle bars employees from using company funds to buy DB2 or SAP." You'd think it was pretty dumb that they ever allowed that. This is the same thing.
I'm sure those who actually need to buy Apple products for competitive research at Microsoft are still allowed to. What they're not going to allow is their staff to run around with iPhones and iPads purchased on the company dime. Anymore, that is.
well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:40 · Score: 0

data entry drones are not creative
1. Re:well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:03 · Score: 0
  
  iPads are not creative devices.
2. Re:well duh by zlives · 2012-03-21 09:08 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  yes but owing one makes the owner "feel" creative..
3. Re:well duh by DeathElk · 2012-03-21 09:20 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  This is a common misconception spread by anti-apple people, or people who have not used an iPad. Visit any recording studio (home or professional) and you are likely to see iPads being used as instruments, console/transport extensions, composition scratchpads, etc etc. WRT data entry, I wouldn't want to type on one all day, but as a note taking device, the screen based keyboard is perfect for touch typing.
4. Re:well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  I moderated this +1 Funny, but it looks like it's going up insightful. I'm baffled - did the other mods not read this part? "the screen based keyboard is perfect for touch typing"
  
  That's some grade A right there.
5. Re:well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 10:56 · Score: 0
  
  Visit any recording studio (home or professional) and you are likely to see iPads being used as instruments
  as instruments? really? you just use a MIDI keyboard, anyone using an ipad for that is just doing it for the sake of using an ipad, it's in no way a superior device for such tasks.
  
  console/transport extensions
  no professional studio needs to use an ipad for something like that.
  
  composition scratchpads
  no, again that's just using an ipad for the sake of using an ipad.
  
  the screen based keyboard is perfect for touch typing.
  lol!
6. Re:well duh by ancarett · 2012-03-21 11:35 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You're so right. There's nothing touch-typing-friendly about a screen-based keyboard. It can be fun, but you can't have your eyes on one part of the room while you take down text or transcription at 80+ wpm. Virtual keyboards are useless for high-speed or even medium-speed touch-typing tasks.
  
  --
  ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
7. Re:well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  but you can't have your eyes on one part of the room while you take down text or transcription at 80+ wpm. Virtual keyboards are useless for high-speed or even medium-speed touch-typing tasks.
  Oh don't worry, soon there'll be a flood of anecdotal evidence posts from apple apologists claiming to refute your comment.
  I don't know what your problem is but i can type just fine on my iPad.
  I use my iPad for taking notes in meetings all the time, it's so much more efficient than everyone else fumbling with laptops.
  When I write my screenplay standing up on the train it's so much easier than doing it with a laptop.
  I type on my iPad when I'm sipping coffee at Starbucks and all the laptop-users can't even drink coffee because their laptops are in the way.
  iPad good, laptop bad, i type!
8. Re:well duh by kyrio · 2012-03-21 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  APPLE GOOD, M$ BAD.
  
  +1 Insightful. That's all.
9. Re:well duh by DarwinSurvivor · 2012-03-21 19:51 · Score: 1
  
  Whooooooosh.
10. Re:well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 02:48 · Score: 0
  
  Visit any recording studio (home or professional) and you are likely to see iPads being used as instruments
  as instruments? really? you just use a MIDI keyboard, anyone using an ipad for that is just doing it for the sake of using an ipad, it's in no way a superior device for such tasks.
  You'd be *very* surprised at the ways an iPad can be superior to a keyboard as a MIDI instrument. The least of which are portability (the iPad is *much* smaller and lighter), and configurability (most MIDI keyboards don't have the ability to grow sliders or dials that they didn't have when they were manufactured).
11. Re:well duh by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 09:40 · Score: 0
  
  You'd be *very* surprised at the ways an iPad can be superior to a keyboard as a MIDI instrument.
  Like what? Anyway they are outweighed by the many ways they are inferior, the most prominent of which is probably pressure sensitivity, which is of huge importance unless you're just sequencing, which you don't need an ipad for anyway.
  
  The least of which are portability
  Of course that's the least, portability is of no consequence in a recording studio.
  
  and configurability (most MIDI keyboards don't have the ability to grow sliders or dials that they didn't have when they were manufactured).
  Why do you need sliders and dials? You have those on the desk, or in the software.
This just in by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:55 · Score: 0

This just in - Ford prohibits employees from using company funds to purchase Chevy vehicles. Ford must be evil.
Would You Expect ... by foobsr · 2012-03-21 08:00 · Score: 1

Coca-Cola buying Pepsi-CSDs for the employees to drink?
CC.

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TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Re:allow moderation of the stories by TaoPhoenix · 2012-03-21 08:05 · Score: 4, Informative

That's the Firehose.
The users already do moderate those, but then the editors get a 1000% weighted vote to override the user moderations and post whatever they like.

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My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm by no means a MS fanboy, but ... by TheABomb · 2012-03-21 08:20 · Score: 1

Maybe they just don't want to deal with the loss of productivity and mental health expense that would come from their employees trying to work with iPads?

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MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
my nephew at MSFT has every Apple product by peter303 · 2012-03-21 08:42 · Score: 1

Hard core fainboy who lines up for that stuff. Pays with his own money, of course.
I can confirm that. Brother-in-law was at MS... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:43 · Score: 1

... way up (and I mean WAY up) in one of their PR organizations. He was told explicitly to lose the iPhone and never show up again at work with his MacBook.
Can they buy Nokia Smartphones? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:50 · Score: 0

Can they buy Nokia Smartphones?
Lots and lots of Nokia Smartphones?
I know it won't really help, but it is better than nothing. I really wanted to buy an N900, but the cost was just too high. If I could buy one loaded with some other OS cheap, then load meego, I'd be all over that.
Healthcare by digitalsolo · 2012-03-21 09:04 · Score: 1

I work for a healthcare system. If you go to our competitors (for non-emergency) you aren't covered as well by insurance. This seems like common sense in the business world. Why is this news?

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Just another ignorant American.
Considering "Embrace and Extend" by assertation · 2012-03-21 09:11 · Score: 1

this is a doubly dumb policy. How can Microsoft employees "embrace and extend" if they can't buy a copy of what they are supposed to reverse engineer?
favour by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:14 · Score: 0

Microsoft if doing them a favour.
Not news? by Troke · 2012-03-21 09:29 · Score: 1

Juniper corporate office doesn't run Enterasys on their edge, just as Microsoft doesnt use apple in their environment. No sane person running a business would be using a competitors product in their business because:
A. Cheaper. you can get it at cost (or close to)
B. Its your product, you should have pride in it or you shouldn't be making it.
C. Marketing / Sales "Our product works perfectly here, come and see it at its best"
Breaking news by viperidaenz · 2012-03-21 09:51 · Score: 1

Company tells staff they can't use company funds to purchase competitors products.

Editorial headlines imply said company is trying to restrict what staff buy with their own money.

Seriously? this is news? The company I work for doesn't let me buy porn with the corporate card, how is that any different?
The world would be a much better place by Anomalyst · 2012-03-21 10:32 · Score: 1

If all companies were to stringently enforce this policy.

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There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
You're Doing it Wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 12:06 · Score: 0

I wonder if any Apple employees buy much Microsoft gear? If you can't make products that your own employees like better than the competition's, you're doing it wrong!
This is dumb. Competing products should be used. by erac3rx · 2012-03-21 12:49 · Score: 1

I see all these articles about how this is a stupid post, and that obviously every company should bar the use of company funds to buy competitors products. My reaction is entirely the opposite. If you want your products to be great, you *absolutely* want your staff to be exposed to as many of the competing products as possible.

Do all of you honestly think it's a good thing for MSFT employees not to be exposed to iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro products? Really? They're way behind, and it's clearly in their best interest to understand why it is that consumers are flocking to their competitor's platform. If I were in charge of the Windows Phone team I'd want everyone that works for me to have an iPhone and iPad, because that's who we need to beat. If they want to grow their market share, they're going to have to get people who have iPhones and iPads to buy their stuff. Those people won't unless Microsoft builds a product that is even better.

By the same logic, do you think it's advantageous for a Ford employee to never drive a Toyota? Or a Nissan? It's ridiculous to think that a company actively wants its employees not to try out competing products, yet expects them to create products that are superior. How do you know what you need to do to appeal to the customers you don't have when you have no idea what those customers are experiencing? These are the people you are directly competing with in the marketplace. To not have your employees exposed to them and experience them at all is just idiocy. If all you want to do is keep your existing customers, fine. But if you want to take market share from competitors you have to appeal to consumers of those products. Creating a strategy to do that without even understanding what you're competing with is impossible.
apple rotten by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 13:28 · Score: 0

rotten apples should be universally banned. incarceration of the mind.
Common and then some by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 15:00 · Score: 0

I work for McDonald's. I've heard that back in the day, Fred Turner would outright fire people who carried food from the direct competition back into the offices.
You don't eat Wendy's at your desk when you work at McDonald's, and you don't use Apple equipment at work when you work for Microsoft.
I'm never even comfortable having Dunkin' Donuts or Starbucks in my hand at the office now that we're all competing pretty directly. If it's my day to bring donuts I go to the local bakery.
Don't worry MS employees! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 15:49 · Score: 0

You can still order through MS's employee purchase program at the Apple store: http://store.apple.com/us_epp_151889?target=eppstore/microsoft
Oh no! by Sav1or · 2012-03-21 17:22 · Score: 1

Guy A who is constantly competing with Guy B doesn't want all his money going to Guy B? Call the police, this is wrong!
1997 Macworld Boston Keynote by ctime · 2012-03-21 18:40 · Score: 1

1. Steve announces a huge restructure, openly admits how far Apple has fell, emphasizes Apples strengths and announces an investment by Microsoft into Apple (150Mill. then, wow, I wonder if they are still holding that stock).

Microsoft agrees to produce IE and Office for the Mac. These are huge. I would not use Mac OS X today (for work) if I had to use some half baked 3rd party software that doesn't integrate with exchange properly. Will Microsoft finally say Apple has won (as Steve foreshadows in the speech) and will they start saying things like, well, you want to continue to use Office and Exchange? You'll need Windows 8 for that. Sorry, we don't "do" Apple software anymore.

This 1997 video is one of my favorite videos to watch. What a guy Steve was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEHNrqPkefI
Re:I can confirm that. Brother-in-law was at MS... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 20:45 · Score: 0

Well duh. I am sure Apple have a ban on their employees using superior products and insist on them using untested crap.
How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 00:34 · Score: 0

The key here is "company funds". I hate MS but I believe in their right to tell employees how they may and may not spend company funds. Where does it say they can't spend personal funds on a Mac. Now that would be news.
MS is Ashamed by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 03:26 · Score: 0

They are tired of it coming out that their own employees prefer to use Macs. One of the things they are targeting is Marketing, which is notorious for developing videos on Apple environments, even for adds for MS environments. Unfortunately, tying your employees' hands like this is just going to backfire, and force these departments to use what they (the teams) deem as lesser products, which would undoubtedly make what they do take far longer and more money.
So... Where's the story? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 05:57 · Score: 0

Apple and Google have LONG banned Microsoft operating systems; with the exception of QA machines.
Who owns Diageo? by hicksw · 2012-03-23 07:04 · Score: 1

Who owns Diageo?
from http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MFRsy_KE9_8J:stockzoa.com/ticker/deo/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=opera
Who holds a large position in Diageo:
Barrow, Hanley, Mewhinney & Strauss owns 10.58M shares worth $924.96M
Wentworth, Hauser & Violich owns 3.69M shares worth $322.48M
Schafer Cullen Capital Management owns 1.70M shares worth $148.84M
Bank of America Corporation owns 1.31M shares worth $114.57M
Markel Corporation owns 1.25M shares worth $109.02M
Johnston Asset Management owns 1.24M shares worth $93.81M
INTERNATIONAL VALUE ADVISERS owns 1.23M shares worth $107.39M
Franklin Resources owns 996175 shares worth $87.09M
Osterweis Capital Management owns 963445 shares worth $73.15M
Gabelli Funds owns 922000 shares worth $80.60M
Manulife Asset Management owns 807079 shares worth $70.55M
Citi owns 780475 shares worth $68.24M
Epoch Investment Partners owns 776104 shares worth $67.85M
Thrivent Financial for Lutherans owns 755348 shares worth $66.03M
Focused Investors owns 726200 shares worth $63.48M
GAMCO Asset Management owns 707570 shares worth $61.86M
Cooke & Bieler owns 704516 shares worth $61.59M
Allianz Global Investors of America owns 676595 shares worth $59.15M
GOLDMAN SACHS owns 606318 shares worth $53.00M
Rich People own Diageo. Not just Yanks, not just Brits, maybe even some Micks.
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Law of truly large numbers - almost all numbers are harder to remember than you can imagine.
Many presenters at MSFT dev conferences use macs by aristotle-dude · 2012-03-24 06:48 · Score: 1

I have seen mac laptops running windows in VMWare at several developer conferences in Canada in the past. I wonder if this will change now.

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Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.