Slashdot Mirror

are you sure about those numbers?

so 285M out of 330M total population are visually impaired? that seems, well, fake and wrong.

Looks like 7.4M blind people vs 39 million.
https://nfb.org/blindness-stat...

Every device whose primary interface is graphical will be "essentially useless" to a blind person. Fucking duh! It's not just the iPhone, it's every touchscreen device made.

You are right, the iPhone and other devices are completely useless to a blind person.

There already is a device in common use which is very useful to "help alert the blind to obstacles that lie in their path." Better yet, it only costs about $40, has unlimited power supply, weighs under a pound, and is completely portable. Here is a photo.

The National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped provides recorded books and magazines at no cost through local libraries, see http://www.loc.gov/nls for the location of your nearest library. They are also a good source of information about aids like screen readers and screen magnifier software, as is your local affiliated library.

The National Federation of the Blind http://www.nfb.org/ is also a good source of information about helpful technology.

These guys have been around since 1940, so I don't think they are an astroturf group.

http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Who_We_Are.asp?SnID=96896245

So that is why the National Federation of the Blind posted this press release after the iPad's launch commending Apple for how accesible the iPad is to the blind ?

Well, the National Federation of the Blind did just that, accusing the Authors Guild of discriminating against the blind and creating a legal argument about what is permissible under copyright that never existed until now. Naturally, the Authors Guild subsequently published a rant in the NYT (see today's Slashdot article) which attacks both the NFB and the EFF.

Well, the National Federation of the Blind did just that. The Authors Guild subsequently published a rant in the NYT (see recent Slashdot story) in which they attack the NFB and the EFF.

You make a silly joke, but electric cars may be required to make "engine" noise for the benefit of (blind) pedestrians.

On numerous occasions Apple had been asked to make iTunes accessible to the blind organizations. In particular the National Federation of the Blind. Apple refused.

Eventually College professors began putting lectures on mp3. With the iPods popularity, iTunes became a "standard" part of the educational process. Suddenly equal access became an issue.

Snider represents the National Federation of the Blind.

The National Federation of the Blind sold their integrity to Diebold for $1 million dollars. They do not deny that there was a quid pro quo, although they have issued a vague, non-denial denial.

>> That's a matter of education.

Not necessarily. It's particularly dangerous for blind people.
See: http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm05 /bm0506/bm050605.htm

>> That's a matter of education.

Not necessarily. It's particularly dangerous for blind people.
See: http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm05 /bm0506/bm050605.htm

HiSoftware® Cynthia Says(TM) - Web Content Accessibility Report
Powered by HiSoftware Content Quality Technology

Verified File Name: http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Default.asp
Date and Time: 9/11/2006 9:54:01 AM
Failed Automated Verification

Lucky for them I have a secret way of finding content on the internet.

• Computerworld
• National Federantion of the Blind (one of the plaintiffs)
• Disability Rights Advocates (the plaintiffs' lawyers

Hey Rob, can I get my editor's fee now?

I used to advise a major university on ADA and Rehabilitation Act issues, including issues related to web compliance under section 508 of the Rehab Act. It does not surprise me at all that Target was held responsible to make its website compliant with the ADA. This was far from the first lawsuit involving compliance with the ADA or otherwise trying to force web entities to make their websites accessible to the disabled. In fact, I did a paper for the National Association of College and University Attorneys back in 2000 that relied on a Slashdot article:

"The overall design of web sites can have a tremendous effect on their accessibility for persons with disabilities. Because the internet is predominantly a visual medium, it should be no surprise that accommodations may be needed for the blind. However, proper design of a web page can also accommodate the needs of persons who have mobility impairments or learning disabilities, or are deaf.

Guides for making the web accessible recommend the use of standard hypertext markup language (html) or, if appropriate, the new extensible hypertext markup language (xml or xhtml). (Html is the standard coding language that tells a web browser what to display on a computer screen; xml is the name for the most modern version of the coding language.) Cutting edge html can pose problems because specialized software for the disabled, such as reading software for the blind, may be unable to understand it. Also, in general a simple layout is better. Frames and tables, for example, can cause problems with reading software because that software reads from left to right, ignoring the layout of a page. The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) recently sued AOL because AOL's software allegedly does not work with reading software. A copy of the complaint is attached and can also be found at http://www.nfb.org/aolcompl.htm. Curtis Chung, the NFB's Director of Technology, answered questions about the suit at http://slashdot.org/articles/99/12/09/1342224.shtm l. Mr. Chung said:

'. . . the quarrel we have with America Online has to do with the accessibility of the software we *MUST* *RUN* in the Windows environment in order to use any AOL service. This is *NOT* related directly to any question of accessibility to web pages. To put it simply, the AOL software, all versions, behaves in such a way as to make it difficult if not impossible for screen access programs for the blind to understand what is being displayed on the screen. What we are asking for is to have AOL software that works well with screen access software for the blind.'

The choice of colors and typefaces, and the layout of the page, can affect the ease of reading for persons with learning disabilities, particularly those with dyslexia and attention deficit disorder. Consistent style and navigation design from page to page also helps those with learning disabilities. Sites designed for ease of navigation and with large hotlinks can accommodate the needs of persons with mobility impairments, who may have difficulty controlling a mouse. Keeping pages short means that reading software does not have to read a long page before the listener can click to something else. Reading software also may have difficulty with symbols and graphs, such as those used in math and science classes. Persons who are colorblind can have difficulty if the web site relies on color for navigation.

The technology selected to deliver the course content also can affect the disabled. For example, streamed audio or video is not accessible to persons with hearing or vision disabilities. An institution's duty to accommodate does not force the course designer necessarily to eschew these technologies, but it will require the institution to give thought to alternate means of providing the course content. For example, a course that uses streaming audio lectures will be accessible to a deaf student if a

CATCHAs have been very effective in stopping spammers in the past, but if they can now just read them and answer correctly, then they are effectively rendered useless ...

They're already useless if installing one will subject your business to boycotts and/or lawsuits from National Federation of the Blind and other advocates for people with disabilities.

The 1975 reader cost $50,000 (over $150,000 in today's dollars) and was the size of a dishwasher. This new reader "is about a thousand times smaller than the original Kurzweil Reading Machine, the PDA in the portable Reader is two thousand times faster. In fact, the portable Reader can execute about 500 million instructions per second as compared to 250,000 instructions per second for the Kurzweil Reading Machine. It also has a thousand times more memory (64 megabytes as compared to 64 kilobytes)."

Just as with the iPod my bet is that this device will not be accessible to the blind or print disabled. How hard would it be to add DAISY http://www.daisy.org/ support to this. Daisy is the international standard for digital talking books produced by the various talking book libraries.

At some point organizations such as the National Federation of the Blind http://www.nfb.org/ are going to start to sue hardware makers, web sites and so on under the ADA for creating inaccessible products.

My bet is like the iPod there is no provision in this thing for the print disabled (blind or dyslexic) to be able to use it.

Really now how hard would it be to build DAISY http://www.daisy.org/ access into this, or other similar devices?

I suppose that we'll have to wait for the NFB http://www.nfb.org/ or the ACB http://www.acb.org/ to sue some hardware maker under the ADA before they will stop making these things that can't be used by the blind. That goes for Slashdot and it's imaged based posting requirement too.

76 Leabrook Lane
Princeton, New Jersey 08540
phone: (609) 924-5207

As the father of an 11-yr-old totally blind boy, I'd strongly recommend having your co-worker get in touch with the NFB. There's probably a local chapter nearby. Getting to know competent blind adults should be a very enlightening and positive experience for your co-worker and his son.

I'd also say that although learning braille may seem like it is emphasizing the fact that his son is different, in the long run being unable to access information will make him more different. Being able to read what others are reading, even if it's in a different medium, may make him fit in more, not less.

FWIW, my son loves his braille edition of PC World. So now he's different because he's a geek...

Accessibility worries me far more than the chances of increased identity theft, since I guess you will still need a PIN. Disabled groups are already angry (I know I would be) about bank practices like charging for counter service. Also, there are an increasing number of internet banks which cannot offer cashiers at all.

Hopefully those who cannot (or do not want to) use the iris ID will have some alternative form of ID available (a separate smartcard? another PIN? voiceprint?).

Googled and found this article from a few years ago: ATM accessibility

And try to keep in mind that that's not the *only* example. You might try doing some research of your own, if you can stand to hear the truth.

Without trying to sound mean or arrogant, is this useful at all? Spending money on this kind of bullshit? I think the blind would rather have this money going to more helpful places.

Reread the article. It's a specific single-gene disorder with about 2,000 patients in the country. The National Federation for the Blind claims that there are about a million blind people in America. In other words, we're talking about 0.2% of blind people being cured. While that's wonderful for them, this isn't a massive breakthrough in the treatment of blindness.

Most blindness isn't genetic. Much of it is due to cataracts and macular degeneration, which are diseases of aging. It's also caused by the complications of chronic diseases, especially diabetes (slow destruction of the vessels of the retina) and AIDS (death of retinal neurons due to cytomegalovirus). All of these except AIDS are not really understood, but are definitely not single-gene disorders that are likely to be amenable to gene therapy. My money's still on the retinal and cortical implant folks.

If your site is based in the USA, then avoiding a lawsuit has some positive value. If your site belongs to an organization that receives any government funds, then complying with the ADA is worth at least that much to you.

Will I learn more about blindness if I close my eyes or wear a blindfold?

No, it is not a good idea to try to pretend to be blind. As a matter of fact, you could get just the opposite impression about what it is like to be blind. You might have a hard time finding things, you might bump into things, you might knock something over, or you might hurt yourself. You might feel frightened, frustrated or confused; then you might think this is what it is like for blind people. But it is not like that for us. Blind people (depending on how long they've been blind) have training and experience that you do not have, and we know how to do things (sometimes differently) that you do not. It is easier for us than it would be for you. If you want to learn more about blindness, instead of pretending to be blind, you might want to ask a blind person to talk with you. Perhaps you will want to contact a local chapter of the National Federation of the Blind.

It's kind of a personal matter for me, as I've worked with a blind person once, (are you reading this, Eddy?), and that experience helped me understand blindness much better than I could have otherwise.

Will I learn more about blindness if I close my eyes or wear a blindfold?

No, it is not a good idea to try to pretend to be blind. As a matter of fact, you could get just the opposite impression about what it is like to be blind. You might have a hard time finding things, you might bump into things, you might knock something over, or you might hurt yourself. You might feel frightened, frustrated or confused; then you might think this is what it is like for blind people. But it is not like that for us. Blind people (depending on how long they've been blind) have training and experience that you do not have, and we know how to do things (sometimes differently) that you do not. It is easier for us than it would be for you. If you want to learn more about blindness, instead of pretending to be blind, you might want to ask a blind person to talk with you. Perhaps you will want to contact a local chapter of the National Federation of the Blind.

It's kind of a personal matter for me, as I've worked with a blind person once, (are you reading this, Eddy?), and that experience helped me understand blindness much better than I could have otherwise.

Unfortunately, Mr Maurer, the President of the National Federation of the Blind, does not have his email listed on the NFB site, but the general email for them is: epc@roudley.com.

IMHO people filing stupid lawsuits like this one should have as much public feedback as possible.