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Yes, what's funny about this is that the few thousand Yahoo beta testers are going on and on about how fast it is. I'll evaluate which is faster after Yahoo has a few million users. Here's the thing-- Yahoo doesn't really have to beta-test all that much. They swallowed a kickass webservice called Oddpost about a year ago, and they're just now getting around to crapping out a product. The only thing they really needed to do was load-balance their servers. Oddpost was awesome as-is.

This whole Yahoo! Beta is honestly a huge disappointment to me, mostly because they've taken over my beloved Oddpost. Gmail may have been out two years ago, but Oddpost has been around a lot longer than that. The interface is definitely a perk, and while you don't have the same search luxuries that you have in Gmail, the Bayesian filtering in Oddpost is pretty great for avoiding those pesky pieces of spam. ...not to get the masses going, but Oddpost never worked in Firefox. It'll be a pleasure to see if Yahoo! Mail adopts it. :: rolls eyes ::

Sorry, the original WebMail app Y! bought out was http://oddpost.com/ - Not outpost ;)

Hell, check out Oddpost

Don't forget. Yahoo! recently bought Oddpost, a webmail service that had an innovative interface long before Gmail.

On the one hand I think that you are absolutely right and X-Forms will provide a simple way to help developers have their required field checking and all those dreadfully tedious things done for them. However, I am not yet convinced that it will pave the way for truly "rich" client applications.

To date, you can find rich client applications such as Oddpost http://www.oddpost.com/ that use Javascript and other IE *features* (sorry but I'm not sure if Mozilla has this) such as XML HTTP Posting to create a desktop like environment on the web with server calls behind the scenes to collect/store data. It is really a beautiful thing. There are also vendors who develop usable Javascript based components http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=java script+grid+control such as a grid controls, comboboxes (which someone was asking about before) and tree controls. All of which can generally be plugged into your database through the language/platform of choice.

I am not yet convinced that the presence of X-Forms or any other lets-use-XML-for-the-sake-of-XML type technology for web interfaces will make creating usable web applications easier any time soon.

Speaking of benefits,

Any existing Oddpost subscribers have a special bonus:

Until then, all Oddpost subscriptions will be extended, free of charge. After the migration, you'll get an additional free year of premium Yahoo! Mail service including two gigs of storage, SpamGuard Plus, advanced virus protection and lots of other goodies.

Thats from the OddPost announcement to subscribers page.

I think thats quite a sweetener. gMail certainly has rocked the boat, and competition is good.

In the long run, who knows? In the short-term, it's free (I almost renewed this week!), and you'll get 1 year of Yahoo's premium service (2 GB, etc.) when it relaunches...

Cross platform? Hell, their home page is not even cross-browser apparently.

This page seems to not scroll in Mozilla 1.5 even if all the content can't be shown in the browser window because of size. You know you're in trouble when they fuck up their main marketing page.

Regarding why web clients haven't taken over...because MS doesn't want them to naturally. If web apps had good interfaces (approaching rich clients), and worked in any web browser, there'd be no need for Windows and IE.

MS has control over rich web interfaces being available because of this: the *vast* majority of browsers are IE. So if MS doesn't allow rich web interfaces in IE, web developers won't attempt to make a web app that can't be used by the majority of users.

I think it's possible to get close to rich web apps using JavaScript, DHTML, and other technologies, but it's very painful for web developers to get it to work correctly across Firefox, IE, Safari, etc. For an example, see oddpost.com webmail. It's very rich, but only works in IE 5.5+.

$60/month Debian Linux Server

I highly recommend cfengine to manage your configuration files, though. Makes scaling up of servers very easy. Managing 10 servers is the same as managing 500.

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I use oddpost because I am cool, and because it will soon have Mozilla support!.

Shame the article does not cover web apps. See Oddpost www.oddpost.com and Convea www.convea.com for two of the best.

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I am cool for a variety of reason, but mostly because I use Oddpost

Hopefully the stock keeps up this trajectory!

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I am cool for a variety of reason, but mostly because I use Oddpost

Oddpost. Simply the best web-based email client in existence.

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I am cool for a variety of reasons, but mostly I am cool because I use oddpost.com.

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I am cool for a variety of reasons, but mostly I am cool because I use oddpost.com.

I've always found that learning from actual example programs or source is one of the quickest and best ways to learn.

Anyone looking at enhancing their javascript or DHTML should take a look at Oddpost and Convea which are two of the best web applications using javascript and DHTML.

Apple is a monopoly. They make their OS and their hardware propreitary. How is Microsoft worse than that? Microsoft makes a great product, and they have done for longer than Apple. Just because most computer users choose the ease-of-use and professional style of Windows, means it's a monopoly? Riiight...

And IE for OS X is no more. Boo hoo, Apples. It's obvious, Apple isn't brave enough to make Safari for Windows, because they know it would be way worse than IE. Oddpost is a great example of IE's greatness. Let's see mozilla do that!

Of all the programs on my Windows computer (1 windows, 3 RedHat), QUICKTIME is the least stable. I mean, come on! It takes about 15 seconds to load, it runs dead slow, it crashes after a few minutes of playback. It's just ridiculous that Apple has not only customers, but fans!

Grow up, people.

The latest PC Magazine has an article on alternative e-mail. Their Editors' Choice, Oddpost ($10/yr, free trial), uses Bayesian filters, and blocked 22 of 29 spam messages, and only legitimate e-mail ended up in their spam folder. Also worth noting is these are the results with minimal training, so, in theory Bayesian filters could quite possibly block virtually all e-mail with time.

Good examples would be Oddpost, an email app that launches from the web, and RhymBox, a Jabber client.

Note that I've spoken to the froods who did both of these projects, and they've been constantly hitting the wall in terms of what IE can do. RhymBox now uses quite a lot of ActiveX code in order to work around the general lameness of using DHTML .hta files for the ui.

Oddpost, for the record, is an insanely cool company. They provide paid for email - but, and this is the rub, they also provide a kickass DHTML front end to it. Unfortunately it's IE/Win only, so not much use to me (a tuxer) or to any of the Mac users. However, they also provide IMAP4 access with lots of space, so it isn't too bad.

Right. The carpenter (web developer) is using the wrong tool (Flash). He should be using the right tool--HTML.

I can't think of many appropriate applications for Flash. HTML provides content, Java applets provide interactivity, when necessary. Flash is unnecessary bulk and fluf.

It depends on the site. A site showing animated cartoons is going to look a tad dull in HTML. A web application (Oddpost for instance) is much easier to make cross browser using flash than dHTML (I use both, BTW but I don't have the crash-happy Java runtime installed on any browser on any platform).

Obviously any art/design oriented site will benefit from Flash, as it's a creative outlet. An artist or designer will find it much easier and faster to put something together using a visual tool than learning Java or dHTML before fighting against a compiler or scripting engine.
Or maybe you think no-one should use Photoshop either, and instead learn how to poke hex values into the display RAM to create an image. Not everyone is just looking for grey pages full of facts you know...

Flash was designed to display animated vector graphics, and to allow client-side interfaces with XML sockets to act as applications. It does this very well. Sure it's been abused by many sites in the past, but the days of the "Skip Intro" wastage are hopefully numbered.