Slashdot Mirror

This *may* be a corner case as most TPM's were shipped in the disabled state back when XP was still shipping.

Instead, how about testing the open source BIOS stack? Most of you have an unused box of recent vintage and I'm sure the projects can use the feedback.

FYI: An open sourced bios is an Achilles heel for Microsoft. Mobo OEM's will **jump** on a Free bios because it saves them money and elminating TPM saves them much more money.

Get involved!!

http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot

http://openbios.info/Welcome_to_OpenBIOS

is there even such a thing as PCs with opensource BIOS?

http://openbios.info/Welcome_to_OpenBIOS

if e-voting companies switch to Linux of FreeBSD or Windows CE (or any OS with available source code) he'll then ask for the BIOS, and the CPU firmware, and so on, until they give up.

To be honest I don't know much about CPU firmware, but that part about requiring BIOS source code too sounds peachy to me.

-

Yes, it's cool that some companies sell computers sans-OS... but seriously, the subject line is ridiculous. These are not "Open Source Computers" for crying out loud.

This is just as viable an option as if I had an old computer that lost a mobo to a power surge, and instead of fixing it, I decided to get a new computer. I'm allowed to move my XP license to the new computer, so why pay for a new one through Dell.

"Open Source Computer" would better imply that the computer came with a mobo that supported and had installed OpenBIOS, came pre-installed with Linux and OO.org, had a video card from the Open-Graphics project, etc.

This is not an "Open Source Computer". This is a standard PC with an "unformatted hard drive."

Just a reminder to everyone--Open Firmware is a specification, not an implementation. An open implementation currently available is OpenBIOS which can be used in conjunction with LinuxBIOS.

Don't forget a link to the OpenBios project, which aims to create a FLOSS implementation of the Open Firmware standard.

the firmware is no different than the firmware that Theo uses everyday on the motherboard he uses on his PC, or the raid controller that the uses on his server. None of which he has access too.

http://www.openbios.info/ Well, at least his motherboard is covered.

I suggest you learn the difference between firmware and drivers.

I have yet to see a raid card or a motherboard that was so cheaply made you had to upload a firmware every time you wanted to use it because the company wouldn't pay a few cents more for flash. Perhaps it is the wireless (and other device) manufacturers that need to learn the difference between firmware and drivers. If the driver has to give an instruction to the device in order for it to work, that is part of the driver, whether it's a one byte "send data" message or a giant chunk of code.

Open Firmware is no longer an IEEE standard, as of 1994

http://www.openbios.info/docs/1275.html

The grandparent said a BIOS, not the IBM PC BIOS. BIOS stands for Basic Input Output System. It is a ROM (or EEPROM) that is mapped into a fixed location in memory which is the default location of the program counter when the CPU is initialised (usually 0, although it may be re-mapped elsewhere later). In the Intel Macs, the BIOS is EFI (Extended Firmware Interface), which does a lot more than the original BIOS. In PowerPC Macs, it is OpenFirmware, which is an open specification for development of BIOS firmware used by Sun and IBM, among others. OpenFirmware is extendable in FORTH, and very flexible. There is a project to develop an OF implementation for generic x86 PCs called OpenBIOS.

A Mac, just like any other computer, would not boot[1] without a BIOS, since it needs some code to handle the basic initialisation of the I/O systems to be able to read the boot sector from the disk and get into a real OS.

[1] Booting is a contraction of the phrase 'picking itself up by its bootstraps.' This is an apt description of the functionality of a BIOS. A computer is not useful until it is running some code. It can not load code until it is running some code to tell it how to. The BIOS fulfils the rôle of the magic at the start.

Quite true. This is why there are efforts to create "open" forms of BIOS (as well as efforts to create very closed forms).

Try http://www.openbios.info/project/

Quick question, what about OpenBIOS and LinuxBIOS? If my memory serves me well, some motherboard manufacturers sell products with LinuxBIOS (ECS?). Will these two projects be able to survive and provide an viable alternative to this probable DRMed future?
http://www.openbios.info/project/
http://www.linuxbios.org/index.php/Main_Page/

Ultimately hardware options are not a solution pirates can use, since watermarking could easily identify which person freed some content from DRM. The number of people capable of freeing content is directly proportional to the ease in identifying them (and thus shutting them down).

The big problem in terms of maintaining freedom over your own computer is the BIOS. Nowadays it is compressed and encrypted, so if one day it started refusing to load non-authorised operating systems you could easily have a situation where only longhoard would load, it wouldn't let you load drivers or even read the decoding software instructions to simulate it, etc. So that's the key piece, since if that goes DRM-only then the only options are to a) hack the os or b) emulate the entire computer. But to do (b) you'll have to read keys, etc from hardware which can be made extremely difficult.

Of course hacking longhoard will be easy, for now, but ultimately that's a losing proposition. So people with the skill and that care should contribute to the open bios project.

Hmm, yes, I thought of that. It's a real shame that there is no OpenFirmware implementation for commodity x86 hardware.

http://freebios.sourceforge.net/ Oops! Sorry about that. I'm not sure why its moved, maybe financial reasons? http://www.openbios.info/ is an attempt to implement open firmware for x86 and other architectures.

To be honest, if it's just a BIOS clone, I won't be interested anyway - wake me up when someone recreates OpenFirmware for the PC.

To be honest, if it's just a BIOS clone, I won't be interested anyway - wake me up when someone recreates OpenFirmware for the PC.

That's what OpenBIOS are doing!

That the stated goal of OpenBIOS . Yes, it would be great, but getting there without the chip manufacturers help is not going to be easy. (if not impossible)

You are looking for OpenBIOS. It is still in the developement stages and is not ready for prime time yet. Incidently, the developers are planning on using LinuxBIOS code for the initial boot-up sequence. Also, OpenFirmware is not just the BIOS for Macs, it is an IEEE standard and alo used by other vendors such as Sun.

I mean, we've got the OpenBIOS project, Linux BIOS, and FreeBIOS.

Isn't it time to cut out the last bits of non-free software in the computer?

OpenBIOS

OpenBIOS?

OpenBIOS is a project to develop an open source implementation of the Open Firmware specification.

If you want to look at the OS X source code, you can get it from http://developer.apple.com/darwin/.

I'm not sure why the source to Apple's Open Firmware isn't available, but I imagine it's because they licensed it from one of the commercial Open Firmware vendors.

I'm not gonna use it unless I get the source. Period.

Then you're not going to be running Windows in the first place. You should also back away from the keyboard unless you're using OpenBIOS.

A little bit hypocritical of you, no?

There is no need to fear this. This is just a matter of Phoenix proving a market trend. Either the proof will be true or false in the end. Which brings me to this point "who is in control?" and I say whomever has possesion of a thing controls it. We will have physical possesion of the hardware thus we will ultimately be the most powerful factor in this market. We can exersise this power or not. Those of you who have been around long enough will remember the days when you could buy your bios separtely from your motherboard or gasp program your own. This happens all the time in the embedded industry (not as much as it use to though). So if the market is unfavorable to Phoenix's new bios and unsavory locks on our hardware we can always roll our own. Nay you say? Well I offer up these links for you to browse. Free the bios open the bios

Then contribute to OpenBIOS.

Don't forget about OpenBIOS. It is an attempt to implement the Openfirmware standard for x86 and related arcitechures. They are not to the usable stage yet, but hopefully this article will provide great motivation!

Don't do it, you're pretty easy to replace.

Maybe the same way copyright inspired copyleft, the DMCA is a form for companies to protect their products, and stop other people from profiting on those products (god forbid!), but since this really throws onto the pile, and adds hardware materials in to the copyright bin, maybe it will inspire some hardware enthousiasts to create copylefted hardware?

There's already a couple projects with exactly that in mind:

• OpenBIOS
• MyLinux PLW (Pocket Linux Workstation) (i.e., open Palm-like hardware for running Linux on, which they plan to sell for $20 above cost)
• LinuxBIOS
• The Open Hardware Certification Program
• OpenCores (for open-sourced processor designs)
• and finally a page dedicated to Writings on Open Source Hardware.

It's interesting to note that the OpenBIOS project was a recipient of funding from LinuxFund .

OpenBIOS is working on an OpenFirmware-compliant firmware for PCs and other platforms that don't already have such firmware (Alpha, x86-64, and IA-64, according to their page).