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What Will SCO Do?

Instances of SCO code usage in OpenSolaris

Not that we care, but you know, we should in light of their accusations against Linux.

bo

:( damn. I was too busy writting this long ass summary and poking around on the cvs site to notice the free tshirts. Bored today I guess and I knew the enws was coming. I noticed that the cvs site was up before the main site came up but you couldn't get to it unless you you went to http://cvs.opensolaris.org./ Tried to get SmartCVS to connect earlier this morning to see what would happen. So much for breaking news before it's broken... (Especially considering last night there were articles online saying Sun already released OpenSolaris).

What is funny is how little ppl seem to remember from just 7 years ago. Sun actually ported to X86 once before AND "opened" their source code. Then when they thought that things were going well, they dropped it. If Sun ever feels like things are going in their favor, it is almost certain that they will do it again.

When things like the 'dad' & 'uata' (IDE drivers), and 'todsg' drivers are still in the closed source tarballs, I'm not hopeful for the 'open'ness of 'opensolaris' (Come on, they can't release drivers for their own hardware clocks?! (todsg))

Yes! That was true, but not as of Solaris 10. The reason core files needed to be on the same machine that produced them was because they didn't include all the necessary information. In particular, they didn't include read-only data. Their genesis was around debugging on a given machine and in that case, dumping the read-only sections is kind of pointless. This was a frustration that affected every application developer who cared about post-mortem analysis; we in Solaris really care about debugging from first failure.

In Solaris 10, I did some work to make the content of core files adjustable and added text (aka code) to the default. Now when you get a core file, you can debug it on any other system regardless of the patch level, libraries installed or the version of your application that was running. Using coreadm(1M) you can adjust the content to, say, add the symbol table to the core dump or omit the gigantic ISM segment that you don't care about for.

So, yes, mdb(1) had some limitations in the past -- we've tried to address them in Solaris 10. If you have other issues preventing you from using mdb(1), post a comment on the OpenSolaris site.

I thought I was going to have to find a shill to ask that question... "Sir, we've never met before, have we?"

You searched for GOTO and not aargh, moron, or fool?

You searched for GOTO and not aargh, moron, or fool?

You searched for GOTO and not aargh, moron, or fool?

I love searching through source code. Check out line 154 of this code:

http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/usr/src/cmd /perl/5.8.4/distrib/lib/Benchmark.t#154

See OpenSolaris.org. There are two other options: The Sun Download Center and genunix.org No registration is required.

Do a full text search for sco on the source browser: http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/

Oh, wait...they did that years ago.

DTrace lets us examine just about anything, with minimal impact on the system. It's way cool, and other OSes have nothing that is close (for details covering the Linux Trace Toolkit (LTT), DProbes, K42 and Kerninst see the USENIX paper.

DTrace solves disk I/O by PID, network activity by PID, elapsed and on-cpu times for syscalls, libcalls and user funcs, and much more.

DTrace is great if you are a programmer with a little kernel knowledge, but if not you may find the DTraceToolkit helpful - it is a collection of ready-to-roll scripts.

For a list of many OpenSolaris features with screenshots, see the OpenSolaris Guide.

Try reading the CDDL FAQ before you start trolling.

Can code licensed under the CDDL be combined with code licensed under other open source licenses?

CDDL is file-based; that means that files licensed under the CDDL can be combined with files licensed under other licenses, whether open source or proprietary. However, other licenses may have different restrictions which may prevent such combination; be sure to read and recognize those.

"What is funny is how little ppl seem to remember from just 7 years ago. Sun actually ported to X86 once before AND "opened" their source code. Then when they thought that things were going well, they dropped it. If Sun ever feels like things are going in their favor, it is almost certain that they will do it again."

Sun has had an x86 port for a long long time. They dropped it around the time they bought Cobalt. Probably because Cobalt and Solaris x86 competed for some of the same market. The Solaris x86 community rallied together and got Sun to bring it back. I'm sure that the appliance market wasn't panning out helped too. But now Sun is really pushing forward with Opterons. Some details were leaked on the new Galaxy line of Opterons coming out. Should be good stuff. And as for dropping it, well it's open source now. It's going to be out there for ever.

Believe it or not, there are numerous legal issues that Sun has to work through in order to ensure code that is open sourced doesn't get anyone in trouble.

Be patient. They're working on it. Or would you rather they open source some code they don't have the right to, and get people who see that code into trouble?

There is still alot of work to be done, but it is a huge first step.

For more, take a look at the roadmap at

http://opensolaris.org/os/about/roadmap/

When will the Sun compiler be released under the CDDL? Currently, Sun Studio is under a different license.

Surprizinly only 93 matches for FIXME , but a hell lot more for goto..

Surprizinly only 93 matches for FIXME , but a hell lot more for goto..

Justing reading the stuff that is released, however, is a joy.

heh... bet that gets taken out right quick. http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/usr/src/cmd /volmgt/vold/dev_rmscsi.c thanks for the tip.

• Free Sun Compiler Tools!
  
• Torrent Downloads for Solaris (I've been wanting this for a LONG time.)
  
• Complete CVS Access
  
• Public Bug Database

• Free Sun Compiler Tools!
  
• Torrent Downloads for Solaris (I've been wanting this for a LONG time.)
  
• Complete CVS Access
  
• Public Bug Database

• Free Sun Compiler Tools!
  
• Torrent Downloads for Solaris (I've been wanting this for a LONG time.)
  
• Complete CVS Access
  
• Public Bug Database

OpenSolaris is coming out at the end of June. OpenSolaris is basically Solaris 10 in source code form. The license is the CDDL which is basically the Mozilla Public License with restrictions removed .

http://www.opensolaris.org/faq/licensing_faq.html

Anyone can create an OpenSolaris distro, in fact the guy who created cdrecord for linux (Joerg Schilling) is creating one called SchilliX.

http://schillix.berlios.de/

The great thing about OpenSolaris is that it is the opensourcing of Solaris 10 which means it has all the features and stability of that Operating system. It also has features that Fedora Core or linux don't have.

An example is DTrace. With DTrace, one can specify sensors in Solaris 10 and monitor everything. Even user programs.

You also have Zones in OpenSolaris which are like BSD jails, but are easier to maintain and create. Linux has user mode linux, but that is cumbersome compared to Zones.

SMF in OpenSolaris is questionable in benefit, but it allows services to be restarted automatically if they fail. Not something I'm interested in, but some people may like it.

But if you are unhappy with the bleeding edge of Fedora Core, give OpenSolaris a look when it comes out later this month.

I said they were supportive. Discussions on mailing lists, blog entries, that sort of thing. Encouraging.

Please note that Macromedia is being supportive to their own developer community. Also every tool (open source or not) that has a chance to provide added value to their own platform while not being a competitive threat to their own product line is likely to get some (little) support as well. That does not even compare to what other companies do, by really embracing the free software / open source movement. IBM offered a couple of dozzens of programs to the open source community (list) one of them being an Integrated Development Environment (IDE) for Laszlo. Sun open sourced Star Office, Netbeans and will soon open source Solaris. Laszlo Systems open sourced their RIA Platform (OpenLaszlo). These and others are companies being supportive to the open source community. Macromedia however is not one of these companies. On a greed scale they would be somewhere very close to Microsoft.

Flash (which, btw, costs half of what you said)

I don't know where you live but in Germany the half cripple Macromedia Flash MX 2004 costs 694.84 euro (=855.926701 US$) and the full Macromedia Flash MX Professional 2004 costs 973.24 euro (=1,198.868952 US$).

If you don't like it -- don't buy it.

You can bet I won't. I already told about OpenLaszlo. That is what I would use, should I ever consider writing Flash applications again. For now I am a lot better off using SVG and JavaScript for the open source projects to which I contribute. SVG and JavaScript are both open standards while Macromedia's technologies are proprietary. Supporting Macromedia's technologies would help Macromedia more than anybody else, and would surely hurt web standards and interoperability.

Sun really needs to get Open Solaris out the door. If they play their cards right, they can push Solaris back into the market. Once they have a foothold with the "free" (as in Beer, Libre, and whatever other BS you want to call it) version, they can then turn around and become the premier vendor for Solaris systems. Whether it be x86, AMD64, or 64 way UltraSparc boxes, Sun will provide it and make companies feel all warm and fuzzy.

At the same time, Sun can leverage a large degree of open source software built around their platform, while upcoming developers and IT workers can have the pleasure of running Solaris on any machine they want. With any luck, it will be a win/win situation for everyone. :-)

But isn't that also just the beauty of it ?

When Sun talks about openning Solaris, are they talking about just the kernel, or libc as well?

Here is the OpenSolaris roadmap. It does mention libraries in addition to the kernel as part of the source release.

Yes, I consider it vaproware, but this doesn't bother me at all. It fits the definition of vaporware. Sometime, after its release, then it won't fit that definition any more, but for now it does.

http://opensolaris.org/download/index.html

It will get released when everything is ready.

I don't work for Sun but I have been in the OpenSolaris pilot from Day One and I can tell you that I have been working like mad with it as have others. Myself and James Dickens worked night and day over the past weekend to build the OS on an E4000 as well as a LX50 machine for both enterprise class implementations and server room work. You can see the results of the workstation build at Blastwave.org and you need to watch James Dickens blog as well as mine to see progress that happens OUTSIDE of Sun. Not to mention the PowerPC port project at BlastWare which will also make progress when some other bits are in place. There are partnerships in place to work on the PowerPC port and GENESI is behind this as well as others.

Power is a big deal folks. Think of OpenSolaris on your IBM big iron also.

So go make a coffee and relax. Its coming real soon now.

Dennis Clarke
Director Blastwave.org
http://www.blastwave.org/

Did you hear about DTrace

Anyway, OPENSOLARIS DOES NOT EXIST. It will be released in the future, and then and only THEN they'll be able to talk about "opensolaris". As for now, Solaris is 99.9% closed just as always. I don't really care that they've a "opensolaris preview program" with some people outside of sun looking at the code, "free" means that EVERYBODY can see, download it. As Linus said "They like to speak too much. I'm waiting for action".

and they should just shut up about redhat BTW. Redhat publishes ALL his software in a open way in ftp.redhat.com. They bought sixtina, what they did with xistina's "clustering fs"? As far as I know they released as soon as they could in the GPL and submitted it to the kernel mailing lists. The "Netscape directory" thing which was bought by redhat will be opensource too but they're "working on it" because of all the legal crap, just like solaris - just with one difference, Redhat's CEO doesn't talk like "opennetscape directory" like it already exist, which is what Swartchz does with opensolaris. It's amazing too see Swartchz talking about how "bad guy" is Redhat (surprise suprise, is redhat who is eating the traditional sun market share) because if you want to use things like Oracle they're only certified for use with redhat and not other distros. Yeah, I guess that if I write a solaris compatibility layer for solaris in linux suddenly all the certified sun apps will be supported, rigth? (In case you didn't noticed, I hate Swartchz. I love sun but I can't stand with people like that)

Solaris will be opensourced

Solaris has been open source for awhile now.

According to your link:

"Open" for download

Soon, you'll be able to download the OpenSolaris distribution. For now -- just to prove that we're serious -- we've made available the source code to DTrace; it's available here under the CDDL License.

I believe you were mistaken . . .

Solaris will be opensourced

Solaris has been open source for awhile now.

Sun not innovating? With Solaris 9 you might have been able to say that.
But with Solaris 10, you have dtrace (open source http://www.opensolaris.org/ ), and zfs which are very innovative.

As desktop OS I suppose. As much as I like linux, Solaris IS a good choice for servers - and the download is gratis, and it will be open sourced soon.

I don't think Solaris will beat redhat & cia though. With linux 2.6 scaling to 512 CPUs boxes and huge storage devices, is no longer a toy

If you looked at the links on the left hand side of the page, you'd see a button called Roadmap, which points here:
http://www.opensolaris.org/roadmap/index.html

Second quarter, 2005 is when the source will be available for the core OS (non-essential stuff will be released sometime later). It's the beginning of the second quarter now, so sometime between now and the end of June the source will be up.

-i

Soon, you'll be able to download the OpenSolaris distribution. For now -- just to prove that we're serious -- we've made available the source code to DTrace; it's available here under the CDDL License.

OpenSolaris FAQ

Look part way down for "CDDL is file-based; that means that files licensed under the CDDL can be combined with files licensed under other licenses, whether open source or proprietary."

Innovation in OpenSolaris will drive innovation in Linux, BSD etc, and vice versa. The all round beneficary of all of this is the consumer, be they end users at home, or large datacenters.

Innovation in OpenSolaris will drive innovation in Linux, BSD etc, and vice versa. The all round beneficary of all of this is the consumer, be they end users at home, or large datacenters.

www.sunsource.net
www.opensolaris.org
www.openoffice.org
Sun supports Linux, too

What were you saying?

Well, Anonymous Coward, I look forward to seeing you eat your words some time in Calender Q2 this year.

You make mention of www.opensolaris.org . Have you actually read anything on it?

I do hope you signed up for the notification.

You may also notice on that site that to show that we are not going to keep the new and cool stuff closed, that the entire source to dtrace is present on that site as a download. The work is ongoing to ensure that we open what we have the rights to open.

Tp.

Actually, the jobs of IBM, Sun, and CA are complex, they need to satisfy stockholders, and they need to keep moving forward in the markets. I really don't think they could ever be malicious against Linux, because it would literally be suicide for them. The bad PR would be ruinous, Slashdot would be lethal, and the stockholders would pull the rope on the guillitine.

Even the CDDL is not malicous, as people want to believe. If you read the information for OpenSolaris and at Sun executives's blog, there is a pretty good rebuttal of the accusations here at Slashdot and at Groklaw.

The people really digging for dirt trying to pin Linux as the victim really come off sounding like conspiracy theorists of the worst kind. Like with the government, the information you really need to make a case is trade secrets, so you just have to wait and see what happens.

I've got a bunch of nice V240's and some of the new dual-core V490's to deploy. I'll beta 10 for a little while. Not because I don't think it's ready for prime time. Lot's of vendors beta test on their users (COUGH Micros~1, COUGH IBM), but there are a lot of really cool additions to the Solaris OE this time around, and I want to get used to everything.

Specifically ZFS (Bad ass journaling FS, capable of multiple TB's), Grid Containers (think quasi-VMWare for resource partitioning), and of course the nice TCP/IP enhancements.

IF YOU'VE DOWNLOADED "SOLARIS 10" before late late last night, you got a RELEASE CANDIDATE, and not the full RELEASE. Go download the release.

I'm downloading the dtrace source from OpenSolaris and havin fun today.

They have released sol10 with really nice features, cool.
They set it not hardcore-GPL, but at least Sun-defined opensource. Alright.
But what the hell is this about giving the 1600 patents only for CDDL projects?

They show supporting Linux, support the opensource-community, but they cannot/dont't want to move? Could someone explain pls?

Wonder what the exact relationship of Solaris with Open Solaris going to be? Probably, it will be something like OpenOffice and StarOffice.

Why make this more than it is? Its all a matter of which direction you look at this from. As a pilot member I can assure you that there has been no talk of the 1600 patents previous to the announcement. The CDDL was carefully crafted to provide for the needs of everyone. The patent issue is really just a secondary point that has become a marketing talking for the Sun PR core.

Notice, in the CDDL, section 2.1b releaves the contributor of "Patent Claims infringed by the making, using or selling of Original Software, to make, have made, use, practice, sell, and offer for sale, and/or otherwise dispose of the Original Software (or portions thereof)."

As so many folks have pointed out, you can't open the source to Solaris with so many patents in it and then restrict the ability for a contributor to utilize those patents, so they delt with this issue directly in the CDDL. This was widely discussed both inside and outside of Sun, and something everyone was careful about. When the PR core started tossing around this 1,600 number last week it took a lot of people by surprise and discarded many of us who don't care if it's 5 patents or 50,000 patents, it's all the same to us.

This is a case of Sun trying to please both the community ("OpenSolaris licensed by the CDDL, an OSI approved license based on MPL!") and wall street ("1600 Patents for use!").

Sun has no interest in pulling a MS/SCO move and just start suing people. Sun is thankfully the kind of company that would contact you and discuss a problem if there was one before just mailing out a court order.

Is Sun making too much hooplah about the patents? I think so, but thats what PR depts do, for better or worse. Sun isn't saying that their giving away ALL the patents, just the ones related to the code in OpenSolaris, which is just what we need.

benr. [OpenSolaris community member, NOT a Sun employee]

> new buddies MS

Hardly buddies - Scott McNealy said:

Sun and Microsoft shaking hands is a little like two boxers tapping gloves just before they beat the living daylights out of each other.

> I'm just trying to figure out how they are going to
> make anything of Open Solaris in the face of Linux

How about if actually the plan with OpenSolaris doesn't actually involve doing anything "in the face of Linux"? Sun actually talks about the existing Solaris customer base and community in connection with OpenSolaris - all the anti-Linux spin comes from Linux advocates and the ever-balanced trade press.

Maybe there's a case for taking the OpenSolaris FAQ in good faith rather than assuming the worst (even if that's more PC on SlashDot)?

DTrace is under 1Mb so doesn't need a torrent. You can get the source in one small tarball.

S.