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Domain: penguinppc.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to penguinppc.org.
Comments · 97
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Poison in applesThe fruit was poisoned since the beginning, you ve been byting it for awhile already, you've just got a real taste of it.
Do you like it? No? Then what are you waiting for? Go and install one of Linux/PPC distros on you Mac. The sooner you do it the less poison will byte you back.
Apple is a good hardware vendor. But all the history of Apple's software development is an example of stupidity of their top managers. Remind it to them - abandon Apple software for it.
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Re:WOW!
Um, PPC is an open arch, about all that apple makes is the MB (And Cases). The rest is pretty much off the shelf components.
It's just that apple like to support apple motherboards and approved hardware in the OS... but it is a *nix no reason you cant make you're own PPC machine and hack OSX to support it.
MB
CPU [Motorola] [IBM] (cant be bothered with links.. not hard to figure out
Anyway, the point is that the hardware arch is open. The reason is, there's not so much that a CPU really does, and if you can code ASM for it, you can reverse engr it.. There aint much point having a closed arch, cause it's too easy to reverse...
Which brings us to a question about DRM etc. Why prop up those industries that cant support themselves without locking thier IPR up in draconinan laws when we can just point them to the other exising industries and say, 'look they have no protections, but they profit.. nicely. Looks like you'd better just start making a product that's worth buying.' but I digress. -
Harrison Bergeron, anyone?
This reminds me too much of Harrison Bergeron, a short story written by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. in 1961. In the story, people in the year 2081 who see well are required by the government to wear blurry glasses so that they see "like everyone else". Strong people are weighted down with bags of birdshot, and beautiful people were required to wear masks.
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Re:Sure it is
Yes, Gentoo, as well as most (I count 14) of other popular Linux distros, has its PPC port.
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PenguinPPC
Are you looking for something like this?
From the site:
A number of years back from folks in the Microelectronics unit of IBM came up with an idea. It was called POP for PowerPC Open Platform. Basically an open source motherboard design. Well here they are. The first POP boards. It's been a long wait and, like you, I hope it was well worth it.
The boards do appear to be available - anyone tried them?
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Linux is available for 64 bit
Uhm you know, Linux is available for 64-bit processors, at least for the pSeries boxes (PPC - PowerPC proc). http://www.penguinppc.org/ && (http://www.linuxppc.org/ || http://www.linuxppc.com/). SuSE has a distro for this, I believe. Not so sure about RedHat - although I think their 7.1 release did have a port for PPC.
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Intended hardware.
MorphOS is intended for the POP-compliant Pegasos PowerPC board from bPlan. Note that while a Realtek PHYceiver is listed, that's just the PHY; the ethernet controller itself is a Via Rhine derivative embedded in the southbridge. Pictures here. It can also run on classic Amigas with appropriate PowerPC accellerators; NetBSD is also being readied for the bPlan hardware.
AmigaOS 4 is the 'name-brand' product, being produced under contract by Germany's Hyperion Software. It's intended for Eyetech's AmigaOne G3SE and XE products, and Elbox's SharkPPC accellerator in classic hardware with suitable PCI busboards. Hardware dongling of the AmigaOne (with respect to AmigaOS; Linux and *BSD will run unhindered), and continuing intellectual-property disputes may or may not effect the chances of OS4 support for the Pegasos.
All three new PowerPC boards use MAI's PowerPC chipsets, also seen on the Linux-friendly Barbie.
Nor should we forget 'AmigaDE' or 'Amiga-Anywhere,' a crossplatform system based on Tao's Intent runtime + media libs, which is really quite cool even if they've just redesigned their site opaquely. the CEO of Gentoo provides a good writeup here.
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Re:Expensive?
Compare $19.95 to a free operating system (scroll down to "Another one bites the dust").
If you can hold off a few weeks you'll have a free operating system on this incredible hardware (which is infinitely cheaper).
And according to the link above, preliminary benchmarks show Linux to be much faster in some operations. -
Re:Apple Convert
Well you can certainly run Linux on Apple hardware. There are several PPC-specific distros; LinuxPPC running the 2.4.9 kernel, Debian, Yellow Dog, running a RedHat distro, and my personal favorite, the SuSE port running the SuSE 7.3 distro.
Darwin will compile and run on x86 hardware. It is basically the core OS of Mac OS X without the Aqua interface and the Quartz 2D rendering system. One uses X11 instead. As the OpenOffice article states, they have succeeded in producing a stable build (albeit without printer support, etc.) for Darwin.
Personally, I find OS X to be a "pretty darn good" Unix implementation. Notice I don't say great. From a pure performance standpoint the hardware still lags behind Linux running on a high-end x86 box. Aqua/Quartz is quite a CPU/Memory hog, which is a problem on the hardware architecture Apple is stuck with. But, I find the combination of *nix and commercial software availability, e.g. Photoshop, Illustrator and MS Office compelling. And hey, if you ever really need pure processing power, you can always boot into CLI only.
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Re:Cultural Icon
Your
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Re:My iBook Experience
Sounds does work. Use a benh kernel and compile the 'soundcore', 'dmasound_core' and 'dmasound_pmac' modules. Even the brightness buttons will work with this kernel!
Only problem left for me is the 56k modem (any hints on that?) and FireWire - though that might work, I just don't have any peripheral to test it with. -
Since linux devices gets /.'ed rather easily-by Rick Lehrbaum (April 12, 2002)
Back in November of 2000, Jim Thompson, Kem McClelland, Brad Martin, and Jamie Thompson started brainstorming about the idea creating a company to specialize on the emerging market for publicly accessible wireless access points. They reasoned that there would soon be a significant opportunity to supply devices to public access "hot-spot" providers, wireless ISP/infrastructure providers (WISPs), and various value added resellers (VARs).
Thompson and McClelland were both senior managers at WapPort, where they had both been frustrated by the inability to convince existing access point providers to modify their products for "hot-spot" features, or even to allow Wayport to have access to their source code so that Wayport could make the necessary modifications. So the two, joined by Brad Martin and Jamie Thompson, decided to have a go at it on their own.
"My original frustration when I was at Wayport, was that we couldn't get any of the existing access point manufacturers (Cisco, Lucent, Symbol, etc) to embed the features we needed to deploy an 802.11-based "Hot Spot" service," recalls Musenki CTO and founder Jim Thompson.
Roughly 18 months later, Austin, TX based Musenki ("musenki" means "small wireless gadget" in Japanese) is poised to ship beta units of its first product -- the M-1 wireless access point. The devices, which are scheduled to ship to customers next Monday (April 15, 2002), will be sent to developers, strategic technology partners, VARs who want to start integrating their own features, and some prospective major customers. Among the significant customer prospects being sent beta units are several regional wireless ISPs and mobile operators, according to McClelland.
McClelland describes Musenki as a developer of "secure, open-source wireless networking products" whose "software and high-performance equipment enable open development, bringing expandability and customization to the wireless LAN market." Indeed, the company's first device packs a lot of computing power in a very small space, by taking advantage of some of Motorola's highly integrated PowerPC-based system-on-chip processors running at speeds ranging from 200 to 400 MHz, along with high density RAM, built-in solid state disk (Flash memory), and internal expansion based on "miniPCI" modules. The use of built-in PCI expansion allows Musenki to configure its access points for a variety of wireless interfaces -- an important factor in an emerging technology-based market that has a long way to go before stabilizing.
According to McClelland, Musenki has incorporated several features into its wireless access points that are crucial to success in the public access market. These include tie-ins with external authentication and billing systems, roaming across various service provider networks, the ability to slot-in additional network-layer functionality such as VPN and protocol translation, and functions that enable the management of a large number of these devices disbursed over a large number of locations.
What's on the drawing board after the M-1 and M-3 wireless access points have made it into full production? According to McClelland, Musenki's plans include a number of technology and interface enhancements and upgrades, including . . .- Client side devices (miniPCI/PC cards, particularly GPRS/802.11 combo cards)
- Mesh networking technology
- Technology for enabling seamless roaming, by means of cellular and WLAN networks
- Additional security features
- Integration with innovative antenna technologies
- Expansion of the platform beyond the WLAN market
Building in power and flexibility
Jim Thompson characterizes Musenki's first product as a Linux-powered 802.11 access point: "Its open, so the customer can make it do what they want" So flexible, in fact that you could use it for other things. "Like a sexy small, high-performance router," according to Thompson. "Take the 802.11b NIC out and install one of several available miniPCI modules with crypto/compression chips, and now you've got a VPN router -- with compression -- that will run at 100Mbps."
Prototype of the M-1 access point
Here is a summary of the features of the embedded computers that are built into the M-1 and M-3 . .
M-1 specs . .- Processor: Motorola MPC8241 running at 200MHz
- RAM: 32MB (default), 64MB, or 128MB of SDRAM
- Flash: 8MB (default) or 16MB
- 1 x Davicom DM9102AF (tulip-clone) 10/100 Ethernet on RJ45
- 1 x miniPCI socket (comes filled with a 802.11b NIC and "AP" software)
- miniPCI socket has the pins for V.90 modem and 10/100 Ethernet brought out to a second RJ45
- 1 x Smart Card (SIM form-factor)
- I2C header
- 3.5 x 3.6 in. (smaller than PC/104 form-factor)
M-3 specs . .- Processor: Motorola MPC8245 running 333MHz
- RAM: 1 x SODIMM socket, usable with up to 512MB (off-the-shelf modules)
- Flash: up to 32MB
- 2 x Davicom DM9102AF (tulip-clone) 10/100 Ethernet on RJ45s
- 2 x miniPCI socket
- first slot comes filled with a 802.11b NIC and "AP" software);
- first miniPCI socket has the pins for V.90 modem and 10/100 Ethernet brought out to a second RJ45
- first slot comes filled with a 802.11b NIC and "AP" software);
- 1 x full PCI slot (more Ethernet, T1, T3, additional 802.11a/b/g NIC, etc.)
- 1 x Smart Card (SIM form-factor)
- I2C header
- Size: 6.0 x 7.0 in.
Closeup of the M-1's internal single-board computer
"We feel that the additional CPU and the large memory resources are going to be more and more important as 802.11x (x = a, b, g) becomes the predominant method of client connectivity," points out Thompson. "In addition, as other 802.11 standards mature -- for example 802.11e Quality of Service, 802.11i security, 802.11f Inter Access Point Protocol, 802.11h Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS), and Transmit Power Control (TPC) -- we will have the CPU power and architecture to allow us to incorporate these improvements, as well as the future increased bit-rates planned for 802.11a."
"Also, the minute you start thinking about 'mesh' routing, you need lots of memory and CPU resources," Thompson adds. "Consider a medium-sized city with 40,000 houses, all connected to each other via a wireless 'fabric' at 20Mbps or more."
"One could run an 802.11b (or 802.11g) NIC in one slot and an 802.11a NIC in the second slot and have a 'dual-mode' AP, with all the gateway features still enabled," explains Thompson. "Or you could use all three slots -- one slot of 802.11b for older clients, one slot of 802.11g for those clients, and one slot 802.11a. Or you could cover a coffee shop with 802.11b/802.11a and still bring a DSL, Cable, or T1 connection or even 802.11 'back-haul' out with one box, AND run the 'captive portal' on the same box."
Thompson explains that there are varied reasons for the Smart Card. "One of the most interesting is that if you're going to deploy this type of equipment into 'public access' venues, you need a way to both secure the contents against prying eyes -- and people who will dredge through your Flash -- as well as being able to potentially authenticate the equipment back to your billing system, if you're Wayport, Surf-n-Sip, VoiceStream/Mobilestar, Boingo, etc. We use the smart card for both of these, and more. Consider the use of Smart Cards in GSM phone or DBS satellite systems, and then apply same ideas here."
Embedded Linux inside
Musenki's wireless access points run a recent version of the Linux kernel (currently 2.4.18), along with other open source software.
"For Linux, we started with the PowerPC kernel sources from BitKeeper," says Thompson. For the bootloader, for example, they started with ppcboot sources and added 8245 support. "We've given all the code back to the community. Interestingly, I ended up supporting the 'Sandpoint8245' platform in the process."
"We did it all ourselves, with more than a bit of 'help' from the associated mailing lists," continues Thompson. "Linux mostly just 'runs', other than small bits of effort to get the on-chip serial ports working, and board-specific issues."
Why Linux?
"We see open source software as our greatest strategic advantage," says McClelland.
"Essentially, Linux lets us do what we want to do, because we have source -- stand on the shoulders of giants, and not pay royalties to Wind River," Thompson adds.
The development process wasn't without its "bumps in the road", explains Thompson. For example, the time he discovered that the Flash memory bus was wired backwards on the 'BBWISP' board. "This is one of the places where 'open source' ruled for us, because I just hacked support in for changing the 'endianess' of the Flash bus to an existing driver for the Flash chip we're using," he adds.
Thompson claims it took him about half a day to solve the Flash bus problem, thanks to the availability of Linux source code. "I can't imagine having to do that on VxWorks," he says.
According to Thompson, the following open source projects were valuable to Musenki in the development of its wireless access point products . . .- PPCBoot
- PowerPC Linux kernel
- Busybox
- hostap
- uClibc (A glibc2 environment is also available)
- M.U.S.C.L.E (Movement for the Use of Smart Cards in a Linux Environment)
- open1x.org
How will they cost, and how will they be sold?
Quantity one pricing for the M-1 (including 802.11b NIC, antenna, power supply, etc) will be $300, and the M-3 (similarly configured) will be $500, with quantity discounts available.
Beta units of the M-1 will go out on Monday, April 15th. Beta shipments of the M-3 are planned by the beginning of May. General availability of both should be by the end of June.
Initially, the units are being sold directly by Musenki, but the company is currently developing various sales channel relationships.
What's next for Musenki?
Musenki is currently staffed by six people (four founders plus a hardware and software engineer), along with consultants and part-time employees who have contributed to the open source, open architecture approach. Musenki is self-funded to date and is actively discussing additional financing with outside investors. - Client side devices (miniPCI/PC cards, particularly GPRS/802.11 combo cards)
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Since linux devices gets /.'ed rather easily-by Rick Lehrbaum (April 12, 2002)
Back in November of 2000, Jim Thompson, Kem McClelland, Brad Martin, and Jamie Thompson started brainstorming about the idea creating a company to specialize on the emerging market for publicly accessible wireless access points. They reasoned that there would soon be a significant opportunity to supply devices to public access "hot-spot" providers, wireless ISP/infrastructure providers (WISPs), and various value added resellers (VARs).
Thompson and McClelland were both senior managers at WapPort, where they had both been frustrated by the inability to convince existing access point providers to modify their products for "hot-spot" features, or even to allow Wayport to have access to their source code so that Wayport could make the necessary modifications. So the two, joined by Brad Martin and Jamie Thompson, decided to have a go at it on their own.
"My original frustration when I was at Wayport, was that we couldn't get any of the existing access point manufacturers (Cisco, Lucent, Symbol, etc) to embed the features we needed to deploy an 802.11-based "Hot Spot" service," recalls Musenki CTO and founder Jim Thompson.
Roughly 18 months later, Austin, TX based Musenki ("musenki" means "small wireless gadget" in Japanese) is poised to ship beta units of its first product -- the M-1 wireless access point. The devices, which are scheduled to ship to customers next Monday (April 15, 2002), will be sent to developers, strategic technology partners, VARs who want to start integrating their own features, and some prospective major customers. Among the significant customer prospects being sent beta units are several regional wireless ISPs and mobile operators, according to McClelland.
McClelland describes Musenki as a developer of "secure, open-source wireless networking products" whose "software and high-performance equipment enable open development, bringing expandability and customization to the wireless LAN market." Indeed, the company's first device packs a lot of computing power in a very small space, by taking advantage of some of Motorola's highly integrated PowerPC-based system-on-chip processors running at speeds ranging from 200 to 400 MHz, along with high density RAM, built-in solid state disk (Flash memory), and internal expansion based on "miniPCI" modules. The use of built-in PCI expansion allows Musenki to configure its access points for a variety of wireless interfaces -- an important factor in an emerging technology-based market that has a long way to go before stabilizing.
According to McClelland, Musenki has incorporated several features into its wireless access points that are crucial to success in the public access market. These include tie-ins with external authentication and billing systems, roaming across various service provider networks, the ability to slot-in additional network-layer functionality such as VPN and protocol translation, and functions that enable the management of a large number of these devices disbursed over a large number of locations.
What's on the drawing board after the M-1 and M-3 wireless access points have made it into full production? According to McClelland, Musenki's plans include a number of technology and interface enhancements and upgrades, including . . .- Client side devices (miniPCI/PC cards, particularly GPRS/802.11 combo cards)
- Mesh networking technology
- Technology for enabling seamless roaming, by means of cellular and WLAN networks
- Additional security features
- Integration with innovative antenna technologies
- Expansion of the platform beyond the WLAN market
Building in power and flexibility
Jim Thompson characterizes Musenki's first product as a Linux-powered 802.11 access point: "Its open, so the customer can make it do what they want" So flexible, in fact that you could use it for other things. "Like a sexy small, high-performance router," according to Thompson. "Take the 802.11b NIC out and install one of several available miniPCI modules with crypto/compression chips, and now you've got a VPN router -- with compression -- that will run at 100Mbps."
Prototype of the M-1 access point
Here is a summary of the features of the embedded computers that are built into the M-1 and M-3 . .
M-1 specs . .- Processor: Motorola MPC8241 running at 200MHz
- RAM: 32MB (default), 64MB, or 128MB of SDRAM
- Flash: 8MB (default) or 16MB
- 1 x Davicom DM9102AF (tulip-clone) 10/100 Ethernet on RJ45
- 1 x miniPCI socket (comes filled with a 802.11b NIC and "AP" software)
- miniPCI socket has the pins for V.90 modem and 10/100 Ethernet brought out to a second RJ45
- 1 x Smart Card (SIM form-factor)
- I2C header
- 3.5 x 3.6 in. (smaller than PC/104 form-factor)
M-3 specs . .- Processor: Motorola MPC8245 running 333MHz
- RAM: 1 x SODIMM socket, usable with up to 512MB (off-the-shelf modules)
- Flash: up to 32MB
- 2 x Davicom DM9102AF (tulip-clone) 10/100 Ethernet on RJ45s
- 2 x miniPCI socket
- first slot comes filled with a 802.11b NIC and "AP" software);
- first miniPCI socket has the pins for V.90 modem and 10/100 Ethernet brought out to a second RJ45
- first slot comes filled with a 802.11b NIC and "AP" software);
- 1 x full PCI slot (more Ethernet, T1, T3, additional 802.11a/b/g NIC, etc.)
- 1 x Smart Card (SIM form-factor)
- I2C header
- Size: 6.0 x 7.0 in.
Closeup of the M-1's internal single-board computer
"We feel that the additional CPU and the large memory resources are going to be more and more important as 802.11x (x = a, b, g) becomes the predominant method of client connectivity," points out Thompson. "In addition, as other 802.11 standards mature -- for example 802.11e Quality of Service, 802.11i security, 802.11f Inter Access Point Protocol, 802.11h Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS), and Transmit Power Control (TPC) -- we will have the CPU power and architecture to allow us to incorporate these improvements, as well as the future increased bit-rates planned for 802.11a."
"Also, the minute you start thinking about 'mesh' routing, you need lots of memory and CPU resources," Thompson adds. "Consider a medium-sized city with 40,000 houses, all connected to each other via a wireless 'fabric' at 20Mbps or more."
"One could run an 802.11b (or 802.11g) NIC in one slot and an 802.11a NIC in the second slot and have a 'dual-mode' AP, with all the gateway features still enabled," explains Thompson. "Or you could use all three slots -- one slot of 802.11b for older clients, one slot of 802.11g for those clients, and one slot 802.11a. Or you could cover a coffee shop with 802.11b/802.11a and still bring a DSL, Cable, or T1 connection or even 802.11 'back-haul' out with one box, AND run the 'captive portal' on the same box."
Thompson explains that there are varied reasons for the Smart Card. "One of the most interesting is that if you're going to deploy this type of equipment into 'public access' venues, you need a way to both secure the contents against prying eyes -- and people who will dredge through your Flash -- as well as being able to potentially authenticate the equipment back to your billing system, if you're Wayport, Surf-n-Sip, VoiceStream/Mobilestar, Boingo, etc. We use the smart card for both of these, and more. Consider the use of Smart Cards in GSM phone or DBS satellite systems, and then apply same ideas here."
Embedded Linux inside
Musenki's wireless access points run a recent version of the Linux kernel (currently 2.4.18), along with other open source software.
"For Linux, we started with the PowerPC kernel sources from BitKeeper," says Thompson. For the bootloader, for example, they started with ppcboot sources and added 8245 support. "We've given all the code back to the community. Interestingly, I ended up supporting the 'Sandpoint8245' platform in the process."
"We did it all ourselves, with more than a bit of 'help' from the associated mailing lists," continues Thompson. "Linux mostly just 'runs', other than small bits of effort to get the on-chip serial ports working, and board-specific issues."
Why Linux?
"We see open source software as our greatest strategic advantage," says McClelland.
"Essentially, Linux lets us do what we want to do, because we have source -- stand on the shoulders of giants, and not pay royalties to Wind River," Thompson adds.
The development process wasn't without its "bumps in the road", explains Thompson. For example, the time he discovered that the Flash memory bus was wired backwards on the 'BBWISP' board. "This is one of the places where 'open source' ruled for us, because I just hacked support in for changing the 'endianess' of the Flash bus to an existing driver for the Flash chip we're using," he adds.
Thompson claims it took him about half a day to solve the Flash bus problem, thanks to the availability of Linux source code. "I can't imagine having to do that on VxWorks," he says.
According to Thompson, the following open source projects were valuable to Musenki in the development of its wireless access point products . . .- PPCBoot
- PowerPC Linux kernel
- Busybox
- hostap
- uClibc (A glibc2 environment is also available)
- M.U.S.C.L.E (Movement for the Use of Smart Cards in a Linux Environment)
- open1x.org
How will they cost, and how will they be sold?
Quantity one pricing for the M-1 (including 802.11b NIC, antenna, power supply, etc) will be $300, and the M-3 (similarly configured) will be $500, with quantity discounts available.
Beta units of the M-1 will go out on Monday, April 15th. Beta shipments of the M-3 are planned by the beginning of May. General availability of both should be by the end of June.
Initially, the units are being sold directly by Musenki, but the company is currently developing various sales channel relationships.
What's next for Musenki?
Musenki is currently staffed by six people (four founders plus a hardware and software engineer), along with consultants and part-time employees who have contributed to the open source, open architecture approach. Musenki is self-funded to date and is actively discussing additional financing with outside investors. - Client side devices (miniPCI/PC cards, particularly GPRS/802.11 combo cards)
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Re:Webshop broken
I want one, just to have a home server that is not x86, is this board really for real???
Depending on what type of server and how heavy of use it's going to be getting, then why bother with a $600 motherboard that you just have to buy more parts for anyways? If you're willing to do a little messing around, just get an old PowerMac for cheap (make sure it's at least a 2nd generation PowerMac as anything before doesn't have PCI, and try to avoid those with the 601 processor, especially the 7200.)
Although it's not quite the same thing that you want to use it for, my router is a PowerMac 7600/132 (604 processor at 132MHz, 92MB of RAM) which was purchased for ~30 USD (+ shipping). As of this post it's been running for 32 days, 7 hours and 24 minutes without any sort of problems.
Only possible problems are the hardware quirks, but NetBSD has a good model support page detailing most of them for anyone who wishes to run any *nix, and the fact that if there isn't enough storage space then you may have to pay a bit for it depending on whether or not the drives are SCSI or IDE. But, with PPC you tend to pay a bit more for the hardware anyways...
Either way, PenguinPPC is a good place to check out info on Linux on the PPC architecture. (And for old Mac owners, MkLinux is a good place to check for solutions to problems that may be missing from the documentation of your chosen distro (*cough*Debian*cough*) ) -
progress?
It doesn't look like you're getting a lot of help from the Slashbots on this one, unfortunately...
If anyone with good programming skills is in the mood to help, the best way to help out would be to get reliable write access to HFS+ filesystems, either through the kernel module or the user-mode utilities (the author's page is here)
Anyway, back to Jason, your webpage has listed, for at least a couple monthe now, several people who are "working on" things like write support in hfsplusutils and iTunes database manipulation, but there is no indication of what the status is on those projects. What's happening along those lines? -
Re:PPC Kernel
Here is some Info on it...
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Re:Why a Mac?
> Linux [linuxppc.org]
Or try this.
> Plus a lot of Linux stuff had been ported to Mac OS X: look at Fink
Why not use the real thing it was modeled after instead? -
PPC woesYeah, and as PenguinPPC mentions somebody spilled PPC support.
The advantage is that we probably get the most obscure unames ever: Linux issan 2.4.13-benh+xfs+ipsec-snap+irda-hotfix #1
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Drivers possibilities for LinuxFor users wanting to play with the iPod on their Linux box, you'll need hfsplusutils, since there's no fully-working HFS+ driver in the kernel.
First, of course, you need mount the thing. The documented way to enable Firewire disk mode is through the configuration UI in iTunes, but this TIL article has instructions on how to set Firewire mode manually. Finally you'll need to get it to work with the Linux IEEE1394 drivers. Most Firewire hard drives are already supported, so it may work out of the box. Go to the Linux1394 pages for more information.
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Re:Why?It's a big post, lemme see if I can cover it all.
Maybe so, I wouldn't know. But in general, OS X supports a lot more Apple hardware than Linux. For example, XFree86 4.1 is still unaccelerated for a lot of video cards in Apple systems, Firewire device support in Linux is flaky, and sound doesn't work under Linux in many systems (particularly laptops).
I disagree with this pretty strongly. Linux PPC runs on essentially any Apple PCI PowerPC machine ever made. MacOS X runs only on recent G3 and G4 models. It doesn't even fully support the DVD decoding hardware in older G3 laptops. It doesn't support the original PowerBook G3 at allApple's new OS doesn't support hardware they were shipping only 18 months ago. Now that's service with a smile! (Reference: System Requirements for MacOS X 10.1)
XFree86 is accelerated for Mach 64, Rage 128, and Radeon which covers all the Macs I care about. 2d drawing, video scaling, colorspace conversion, and 3d OpenGL are all supported. Sound works on everything that OS X supports except the newest iBook.
BS. I've got an iBook with YDL 2.0 and it doesn't even support suspend/sleep mode, nor does it dim the display. It can spin down the disk and blank the display, but that's it.
YDL is the worst Linux PPC distribution you can buy. Get Debian/PPC and install a BenH kernel which supports power management on PowerBooks (and iMacs, Cubes, etc.) Linux powers off my PCMCIA cards when the PowerBook sleeps, where MacOS X does not. If I put my PowerBook to sleep under MacOS X 10.1, my battery will be drained by morning. With Linux it sleeps as long as MacOS 9 does.
BS again. I just watched a DVD on my TV this past weekend driven by the AV connector on my iBook, in OS 10.1. Further, I'd like to know what version of Linux for PPC supports video out on my iBook.
Well that's great for the iBook, but on the PowerBook neither the TV nor the external monitor can play movies, and you also can't play movies on the LCD with a TV or monitor attached. Linux does this just fine. I use VideoLAN which has Altivec acceleration, and incidentally also has an embryonic MacOS X port. Read the Apple Technical Note 60895 "DVD Player 3.0 Does Not Work With External Monitor Connected to PowerBook"
Like what? Are you going to provide any examples, or are you just making stuff up?
Hear me now or hear me later: OS X is *loaded* with local root exploits. Here's one article.
5. How about timely support for future hardware you're likely to buy?
How about support for hardware I just bought a few months ago? Oh wait, that might cut into Steve's personal slush fund.
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Re:Question for Linux Gurus:
Setting up a dual (or triple, quad, etc) boot is very possible, and is usually set up for you during the initial install of your distro of choice.
Generally speaking, most of the distros use a utility called yaboot, which in turn uses a utility called ybin to set up a bootstrap partition containing a Forth script which is 'blessed' to make the Mac firmware think its a System Folder. The Forth script is loaded initially, and presents you with a dialog asking which OS you with to boot; if Linux is chosen, yaboot is called and allows you to choose which kernel to boot from and what partition to use as / . If MacOS is chosen, the Forth script passes the location of the relevant System Folder to the firmware, and off you go with the little happy Mac icon. Of course, there are various caveats/pitfalls which I don't have time to go into, but this link provides lots of further info on the subject:
http://penguinppc.org/projects/yaboot/
I've currently got Mandrake 8, MacOS 9.2.1, and OS X running using this method on a rev.b iMac, and it works beautifully. -
Re:Why?Why would anyone run Linux on a new Apple though?
I for one need to test my software on Linux Systems. Yellowdog makes this possible on my TiBook. Its also fast and not as irritating to use as OSX when installing software- especially software designed for Gnome or KDE.
Your question perhaps is why somebody would choose one or the other. However Yaboot allows multi-OS booting on Mac hardware. At boot time I can choose OSX, Linux, OS9, or a CD as my OS of choice. Its pretty awesome and impresses the hell out of people
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Re:XFS for PPC Linux?
Not personally, but it does work. There's even unofficial kernel debs floating around with support for it, and yaboot just added support for booting off of XFS partitions.
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Wall Of Shame
I noticed that PenguinPPC has a Code Red Wall of Shame that details their hits. Interesting
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Wall Of Shame
I noticed that PenguinPPC has a Code Red Wall of Shame that details their hits. Interesting
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Re:compiling kernels is annoyingAre you downloading the correct kernel? If you poke around the Linux PPC web pages and mailing lists you will quickly discover that, yes, the official Linus and Alan trees generally do not compile. There is an active effort to keep a PPC branch up to date. The branch exists mainly because Linus doesn't like the way that the PPC people submit their patches, so they more often than not don't make it into the main tree.
Having said all of this, I was going to post a link to the PPC BitKeeper pages. They're gone now, with a message that they will be set up elsewhere. Until then, you can find lots of Linux for PPC community resources at http://www.penguinppc.org.
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I found some info on getting sound to work
Look here. I haven't tested this because I don't one. YET!
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Re: powerbook kernels
It used to be at ppclinux.apple.com but the site isn't around anymore. Might try this site penguinppc.org/files/users/beelers/ibook.html or contacting Benjamin Herrenschmidt penguinppc.org/~benh/.
Another good site is www.imaclinux.net/ -
Re: powerbook kernels
It used to be at ppclinux.apple.com but the site isn't around anymore. Might try this site penguinppc.org/files/users/beelers/ibook.html or contacting Benjamin Herrenschmidt penguinppc.org/~benh/.
Another good site is www.imaclinux.net/ -
I am tending to agreeI just bought a new iBook as well, for the same reasons on the referenced page. I couldn't find a comparable x86 laptop in the same price range, and being a poor college student price was critical.
Since this is my first PPC machine, I chose to take the easy path and install a PPC-only distribution... I chose Yellow Dog 2.0, and I had an easier time installing than Mr. Moffitt indicates. Everything worked "out of the box" for me (pardoning sound, which as he mentions is still forthcoming) except for suspend, which locked up the laptop on resume. A little bit of web research revealed that resuming the new ATI Mobility chipsets was more difficult than some other chipsets, but the problem had been solved in 2.4.x; I snarfed one of BenH's fabulous kernel trees and built 2.4.6. Suspend was fixed, just like that.
Yellow Dog isn't as up-to-date as the distros I'm used to using on x86, but with a little legwork I'm getting it pulled into mid-2001.
I haven't found any documentation on how to turn off the AirPort card when it is not in use (I'm not sure about these 802.11 cards, but I know that regular 802.11 cards suck battery power like its their job; turning the slot off when they're not in use is a big bonus), but the battery life still seems to be 4 hours or so of light usage, less under heavy load.
I don't have the latch problems Mr. Moffitt mentions, either... The magnetic latch thing is SUPER cool in my opinion. It's cool just to mostly close the lid and watch the hook jump out.
All in all I'm very pleased. Time will tell if my pleasure is well-placed, I guess.
Ethan -
Re:Problems to solve
- Try SuSE... their installer definitely works, I'm using SuSE for PPC right now... You can even do a full install over the net by using their "suseboot" partition.
- er, stick with i386 arch systems then... or simply don't install MOL. Actually you might want to check out yaboot and ybin on the the penguinppc.org web site (under Hardware/Blue and White G3) which work pretty well if you have two drives.
- the state of the kernels is definitely not what it should be. Much as I feel the flames descending upon me as I type, it's obvious that no one bothers to QA the ppc parts of the kernel before release time. So far I've not been able to compile a single kernel from the standard source tree, although I must also say that Benjamin Herrenschmidt (sp?) is doing a wonderful job at bringing improvements for those of us who want to optimize our ppc kernels.
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Re:Yes, Black Lab Linux == LinuxPPC.
First, a disclaimer: I don't represent any Linux for PowerPC company or organization, but come as someone who's been using the kernel on PowerPC hardware for several years, and who has been in contact with many people in the PowerPC community.
Some points of clarification:
Originally, the kernel was simply called Linux for the PowerPC, or the Port of Linux for PowerPC. Gary Thomas and Cort Dougan were the two main players in developing the Linux for PowerPC kernel in the early days. Jason Haas had little to do with the actual kernel. The kernel wasn't actually developed in conjunction with any type of distribution.
Later on, Jason Haas and Jeff Carr started up a company called LinuxPPC, Inc. LinuxPPC, Inc. created the LinuxPPC distribution. This distribution used the Linux for PowerPC kernel. The other main distribution custom-designed for PowerPC is YellowDog/Black Lab Linux, by Terrasoft. In other words, there is no LinuxPPC or YellowDog distribution for non-PowerPC architectures. In addition to these, other Linux distributions have ported their packages over to Linux for PowerPC - SuSE and Debian to name a few. So you can get Debian or SuSE for PowerPC, and it will install and work nearly identically to Debian or SuSE for x86 or whatever architecture you care to install it on.
Current distributions supporting the Linux for PowerPC kernel include:
LinuxPPC, Inc.'s LinuxPPC 2000 Q4
Terrasoft Inc.'s Yellowdog Linux 1.2 (2.0 will be available RSN)
Debian's 2.2r3 (PowerPC port)
SuSE Linux 7.1 (PowerPC port)
These all generally use the same Linux for PowerPC kernel base, but some of the distributors make their own patches to the kernel (which are of course made available to anyone).
Much of this information can be obtained from this site.
Hope this helps... -
Re:more Open Firmware info, please?
OK the process i described is 100% OpenFirmware based bootloaders, MacOS never enters into it.
however the catch is what i described only works on NewWorld macs, as they have a decent firmware and no hardware MacOS ROM. what you have is an OldWorld PowerMac, this has broken OpenFirmware and it will never boot linux in its default configuration, but it can be made to boot linux from OF. Note that the bootstrap partition trick won't work on an Oldworld, but its still useful to create one as i describe in case you ever want to move the disk into a newworld box, you will then be able to make it bootable.
OldWorld powermacs use quik instead of yaboot, its an OpenFirmware bootloader. Note that you must use Debian GNU/Linux in this case since all the other distros only include a broken quik that simply does not work. your OpenFirmawre configuration will need some changes, the load-base variable must be changed to either 0x600000 or 0x1000000. the input device should be set to kbd, and the output-device should be set to screen. this allows you to see OF on the console instead of a serial port. you also need to set the boot-device variable to the OF path to your hard disk, ybin includes a utility `ofpath' which can find this out for you (it unlike the rest of ybin works on oldworld macs, debian includes this on the boot floppies as well). you also may have to put something bogus in the boot-file variable just to take up space, sometimes OF/quik crashes if not.
OF variables can be changed from linux using the nvsetenv cmomand, and from within OF using the setenv command. if you have IDE disks you must install a large nvramrc patch otherwise OF will not be able to read the disk.
you can find the full OF configuration for a biege G3 at http://penguinppc.org/~jeramy/nvram.config-all . just the nvramrc patch is at http://penguinppc.org/~jeramy/nvramrc.patch . that can be applied via the command nvsetenv nvramrc `cat nvramrc.patch`. at least i think so, i have not tested this. also set the use-nvramrc? varable to true: nvsetenv 'use-nvramrc?' true
see the debian-powerpc list archives for some other help, and post thier if you need more assistence.
quik can be used to boot macos, see the quik.conf man page for an example of this, its similar to the lilo other= imagename.
one note of warning: DO *NOT* EVER change the load-base or nvramrc variables on a NewWorld (colored hardware) mac, or any mac with OpenFirmware 3.0 or later. if you do the bootrom may be DESTROYED and the motherboard will have to be replaced!
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Re:more Open Firmware info, please?
OK the process i described is 100% OpenFirmware based bootloaders, MacOS never enters into it.
however the catch is what i described only works on NewWorld macs, as they have a decent firmware and no hardware MacOS ROM. what you have is an OldWorld PowerMac, this has broken OpenFirmware and it will never boot linux in its default configuration, but it can be made to boot linux from OF. Note that the bootstrap partition trick won't work on an Oldworld, but its still useful to create one as i describe in case you ever want to move the disk into a newworld box, you will then be able to make it bootable.
OldWorld powermacs use quik instead of yaboot, its an OpenFirmware bootloader. Note that you must use Debian GNU/Linux in this case since all the other distros only include a broken quik that simply does not work. your OpenFirmawre configuration will need some changes, the load-base variable must be changed to either 0x600000 or 0x1000000. the input device should be set to kbd, and the output-device should be set to screen. this allows you to see OF on the console instead of a serial port. you also need to set the boot-device variable to the OF path to your hard disk, ybin includes a utility `ofpath' which can find this out for you (it unlike the rest of ybin works on oldworld macs, debian includes this on the boot floppies as well). you also may have to put something bogus in the boot-file variable just to take up space, sometimes OF/quik crashes if not.
OF variables can be changed from linux using the nvsetenv cmomand, and from within OF using the setenv command. if you have IDE disks you must install a large nvramrc patch otherwise OF will not be able to read the disk.
you can find the full OF configuration for a biege G3 at http://penguinppc.org/~jeramy/nvram.config-all . just the nvramrc patch is at http://penguinppc.org/~jeramy/nvramrc.patch . that can be applied via the command nvsetenv nvramrc `cat nvramrc.patch`. at least i think so, i have not tested this. also set the use-nvramrc? varable to true: nvsetenv 'use-nvramrc?' true
see the debian-powerpc list archives for some other help, and post thier if you need more assistence.
quik can be used to boot macos, see the quik.conf man page for an example of this, its similar to the lilo other= imagename.
one note of warning: DO *NOT* EVER change the load-base or nvramrc variables on a NewWorld (colored hardware) mac, or any mac with OpenFirmware 3.0 or later. if you do the bootrom may be DESTROYED and the motherboard will have to be replaced!
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ybin and yaboot
if its a NewWorld box (colored case, not beige) you should use ybin and yaboot. ybin will create a nice text based boot menu of OS choices including GNU/Linux (of course), MacOS, MacOSX, Darwin, along with some general purpose menus, CDROM, Network, and OpenFirmware. all of this is fully configurable.
the most important step though is creating a bootblock. Macs don't have an MBR like x86 machines do, so what you need to do is create the first partition on the disk as a 800K type Apple_Bootstrap partition, the special type is recognized by OpenFirmware, but MacOS will not mount it. this is very important since MacOS will see that the parittion does not have real MacOS and will render it unbootable. making it the first partition lets you simply reset OpenFirmware to its factory default configuration and (if the bootstrap was setup by ybin) it will be booted by OpenFirmware *automatically*.
see my partitioning guide at: http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/mac-fdisk-basic s.shtml this explains how to properly partition the disk, you need to create placeholder partitions with MacOS's (or MacOSX's) partitioners at the start of the disk, and then delete them with the linux mac-fdisk (aka pdisk). as with x86 you need to create linux (and the bootstrap) partitions with linux and not macos.
as for distributions, only Debian GNU/Linux includes ybin and yaboot right on the boot floppies (you have to run them manually still, but they are there) ydl 1.2* does not have ybin (2.0 if its ever released might) no version of LinuxPPC includes it, and SuSE does not either (AFAIK).
the option key trick mentioned here only works on iBooks, and AGP G4s, not older NewWorld macs such as pre slot loading iMacs and G3s. its also rather slow as it probes all the partitions first. The ybin boot menu is fast (ybin configured bootstrap partitions show up with the option key chooser, as an icon with a penguin on it at that) and the most configurable thing you will find. ybin itself is a lilo like installer for yaboot, yaboot is akin to lilo's
http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin
http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/
(my homepage at alaska.net also has all of these pages)
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ybin and yaboot
if its a NewWorld box (colored case, not beige) you should use ybin and yaboot. ybin will create a nice text based boot menu of OS choices including GNU/Linux (of course), MacOS, MacOSX, Darwin, along with some general purpose menus, CDROM, Network, and OpenFirmware. all of this is fully configurable.
the most important step though is creating a bootblock. Macs don't have an MBR like x86 machines do, so what you need to do is create the first partition on the disk as a 800K type Apple_Bootstrap partition, the special type is recognized by OpenFirmware, but MacOS will not mount it. this is very important since MacOS will see that the parittion does not have real MacOS and will render it unbootable. making it the first partition lets you simply reset OpenFirmware to its factory default configuration and (if the bootstrap was setup by ybin) it will be booted by OpenFirmware *automatically*.
see my partitioning guide at: http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/mac-fdisk-basic s.shtml this explains how to properly partition the disk, you need to create placeholder partitions with MacOS's (or MacOSX's) partitioners at the start of the disk, and then delete them with the linux mac-fdisk (aka pdisk). as with x86 you need to create linux (and the bootstrap) partitions with linux and not macos.
as for distributions, only Debian GNU/Linux includes ybin and yaboot right on the boot floppies (you have to run them manually still, but they are there) ydl 1.2* does not have ybin (2.0 if its ever released might) no version of LinuxPPC includes it, and SuSE does not either (AFAIK).
the option key trick mentioned here only works on iBooks, and AGP G4s, not older NewWorld macs such as pre slot loading iMacs and G3s. its also rather slow as it probes all the partitions first. The ybin boot menu is fast (ybin configured bootstrap partitions show up with the option key chooser, as an icon with a penguin on it at that) and the most configurable thing you will find. ybin itself is a lilo like installer for yaboot, yaboot is akin to lilo's
http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin
http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/
(my homepage at alaska.net also has all of these pages)
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ybin and yaboot
if its a NewWorld box (colored case, not beige) you should use ybin and yaboot. ybin will create a nice text based boot menu of OS choices including GNU/Linux (of course), MacOS, MacOSX, Darwin, along with some general purpose menus, CDROM, Network, and OpenFirmware. all of this is fully configurable.
the most important step though is creating a bootblock. Macs don't have an MBR like x86 machines do, so what you need to do is create the first partition on the disk as a 800K type Apple_Bootstrap partition, the special type is recognized by OpenFirmware, but MacOS will not mount it. this is very important since MacOS will see that the parittion does not have real MacOS and will render it unbootable. making it the first partition lets you simply reset OpenFirmware to its factory default configuration and (if the bootstrap was setup by ybin) it will be booted by OpenFirmware *automatically*.
see my partitioning guide at: http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/mac-fdisk-basic s.shtml this explains how to properly partition the disk, you need to create placeholder partitions with MacOS's (or MacOSX's) partitioners at the start of the disk, and then delete them with the linux mac-fdisk (aka pdisk). as with x86 you need to create linux (and the bootstrap) partitions with linux and not macos.
as for distributions, only Debian GNU/Linux includes ybin and yaboot right on the boot floppies (you have to run them manually still, but they are there) ydl 1.2* does not have ybin (2.0 if its ever released might) no version of LinuxPPC includes it, and SuSE does not either (AFAIK).
the option key trick mentioned here only works on iBooks, and AGP G4s, not older NewWorld macs such as pre slot loading iMacs and G3s. its also rather slow as it probes all the partitions first. The ybin boot menu is fast (ybin configured bootstrap partitions show up with the option key chooser, as an icon with a penguin on it at that) and the most configurable thing you will find. ybin itself is a lilo like installer for yaboot, yaboot is akin to lilo's
http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin
http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/
(my homepage at alaska.net also has all of these pages)
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Re:Linux and the iBook FireWire SEPretty much all my Linux experience is on PPC and it is a wonderful platform to work on. There are a number of things that still need work (that StarOffice port being one of them) but it is very quickly making significant progress.
You probably want to search the linuxppc-user list archives from here and check out penguinppc.org for other useful resources and info.
As for the iBook, the archives indicate that it does work quite well. There doesn't appear to be support for Firewire though (or at least not good support).
The cube also seems to run LinuxPPC just fine as does those new dual processor G4s (drool). Though the multiprocessor support is in early stages. Did this just not port well from Intel or does multiprocessor support generally suck in Linux?
Aside from LinuxPPC, you may also want to check out YellowDog which is a very similar distro to LinuxPPC but apparently has an auto-update feature similar to apt-get as well as rpm support. Then of course there's SUSE.
Personally, I'd strongly recommend buying a PPC for Linux - the computers are substantially faster than Intels (despite the Mhz ratings, look at the benchmarks). I'm also looking at buying an iBook to go with my G3 desktop so I'd like to hear your experiences with it. Oh, and yes you can buy multi-button mice for Macs. Get one.
Adrian Sutton.
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Re:Avoid the most recent models
Damn! I thought that if you installed OS X on the same partition then you couldn't boot OS 9! That's why I didn't do it. Oh well. DP4 was stable on my iBook anyway.
That is true, well i suppose you could but it would involve getting the OS9 system folder reblessed (a pain) which renders OSX unbootable...
The other problem is if you have separate partitions but use HFS+ for OSX, once you boot OS9 it mounts your OSX partition and sees its not really MacOS and deblesses it! making OSX unbootable.
Your much better off using UFS for OSX on a seperate partition.
And to the previous poster about dual booting, look at ybin it makes tri booting MUCH simpler then that, no fscking with boot variables and control panels, just reboot and choose your OS from the boot menu.
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Ethan -
Avoid the most recent models
If you wish to run GNU/Linux on Apple hardware your better off staying away from the most recent machines, pretty much every time apple makes a revision on thier hardware it takes at least a couple months before the support makes its way into the kernel and stabalizes. If you find an older revision you will have alot better luck. However, do be sure to get the so called `Newworld' era machines, (pretty much anything 1999 and on) the `oldworld' (beige etc) hardware is much more difficult to run OSX on, and is much harder to boot GNU/Linux without MacOS.
As for running GNU/Linux, OSX and OS9, this is quite possible, you just need to think ahead when partitioning, `newworld' Apple hardware needs a small 800K "Apple_Bootstrap" partition to hold the yaboot bootloader. see my partitioning doc at http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/ ; ; ; along with the yaboot-faq. my bootloader installer (ybin) also lets you create a boot menu for the 3 OSes.
For newwer (G4 era) Apple hardware the best kernel source tree to use would be Ben's: http://ppclinux.apple.com/~benh/
I recommend the Debian distribution for powerpc hardware, in my experience its the most complete and stable.
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Ethan -
Avoid the most recent models
If you wish to run GNU/Linux on Apple hardware your better off staying away from the most recent machines, pretty much every time apple makes a revision on thier hardware it takes at least a couple months before the support makes its way into the kernel and stabalizes. If you find an older revision you will have alot better luck. However, do be sure to get the so called `Newworld' era machines, (pretty much anything 1999 and on) the `oldworld' (beige etc) hardware is much more difficult to run OSX on, and is much harder to boot GNU/Linux without MacOS.
As for running GNU/Linux, OSX and OS9, this is quite possible, you just need to think ahead when partitioning, `newworld' Apple hardware needs a small 800K "Apple_Bootstrap" partition to hold the yaboot bootloader. see my partitioning doc at http://penguinppc.org/usr/ybin/doc/ ; ; ; along with the yaboot-faq. my bootloader installer (ybin) also lets you create a boot menu for the 3 OSes.
For newwer (G4 era) Apple hardware the best kernel source tree to use would be Ben's: http://ppclinux.apple.com/~benh/
I recommend the Debian distribution for powerpc hardware, in my experience its the most complete and stable.
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Ethan -
Re:Solaris is stable? When did this happen?
Newworld Macs (iMac and later) usually require a boot partition for Linux, too (to hold the txbi script that OpenFirmware loads to load the yaboot booter on a Linux paritition). Old World (Biege) Macs don't need a bootstrap, there booter, quik, can boot directly off of a Linux partition.
I've done some info on these booters over at iMacLinux Guides and Howtos. Also check out PenguinPPC for more stuff.
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Re:OFFTOPIC: LinuxPPC Apps
Try www.rpmfind.net or ftp.wesmo.com for LinuxPPC precompiled RPMs. Note that these should work fine with LinuxPPC 2000, YDL CS 1.2, and MkLinux R1, but not necessarily with SuSE. If you use Debian/PPC, you should be able to use alien to install them.
For other such questions, I suggest the new LinuxPPC.org site or the LinuxPPC mailing list archives.
cya
Ethelred
(who knows that he's risking an Offtopic mod but is begging and pleading for clemency) -
Non-mach Linux for NuBus macs
One developer has started a port of the standard monolithic kernel to first-generation (NuBus) PowerMacs. There is documentation on his web page, and penguinppc.org has a US mirror of the files.
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moreInfo(Re:Linux?);
The boys at LinuxPPC have those G4's all figured out.
I've got LinuxPPC on my iMac..it's good stuff.
TGL -
penguinppc
The penguinppc site looks like an improvement but there's one crucial thing I can't find -- a complete software archive! There used to be a convenient searchable RPM archive featured prominently on linuxppc.org. Then it became difficult to find and recently I haven't been able to locate it at all. It's a huge pain having to tweak and compile all these apps that I know somebody else must have packaged.
I do see penguinppc's FTP link but it only contains a limited number of apps. Maybe I'm just dense - can someone point me to a better source? -
Re:SlackPPCMost of the PPC Linux distros run on G3s and G4s. There was some trouble with Sawtooth G4s at first but that too has been conquered; see http://www.linuxppc.org/docs/sawtooth-install.sht
m l. I don't know what export issues you are talking about; to my knowledge there are none. Of course, iBooks and iMacs are G3 based, and they boot linux fine (see http://imaclinux.net for details). Also keep updated on linuxppc news at penguinppc.org, a cool site.Personally I can't wait for SlackPPC or Slackintosh to be usable. I installed the beta of SuSE and found it more intuitive and easier to use than LinuxPPC (which can be messy), but both are RPM based and I almost always screw up the RPM database after a few weeks of use (sigh - yeah I know, this is my fault, but it isn't a problem with slackware). I haven't messed with Debian yet but that might be a good interim alternative.
DrBen