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The problem with their searching is a form like this one: http://quaker.org/users.cgi It's *meant* to keep people out unless they've entered into a legal agreement.

It's "quackery". "Quakery" is something to do with porridge oats.

Here, that might be an interesting read for you.

Also, a list about German Katrina help (pdf from mid-September 2005) by the German embassy in the US.

No where in the world do people give up their own constitutionally protected rights faster on the slightest scare than in the USA.

That's a ridiculous ssertion, not backed up by the fact that most democarcies have been eroding civil liberties like crazy recently. For example:

http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/1-84-174183-3
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/Indep endent/anti_terr.html
http://www.quaker.org/qcea/aroundeurope/2003/255.h tm#Third
http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/articleid_2938.html
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:l-h-3gElzYcJ: www.ihf-hr.org/viewbinary/viewdocument.php%3Fdoc_i d%3D5537+european+anti-terrorism+legislation&hl=en
http://www.forumsec.org.fj/news/2004/July/July_08. htm
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/apr/18funright s.html

Here are a couple more helpful sites:

http://www.planetquake.com/
http://www.quaker.org/

Your idea that "true" Christians would have to cut themselves off from the rest of the world is ludicrous and would, in itself, seem to go against the teachings of Jesus Christ who wanted everyone to feel His love and that of His Father. Oh yes, and I don't know where you've been or where you learned all your information about Christian sects, but Quakers are not generally isolated from the rest of society. Far from it, Quakers tend to "fight" (some might eschew this word due to it's more violent connotations) for their beliefs. For example, they helped run the Underground Railroad freeing slaves and were instrumental in the creation of "conscientious objector" status, allowing pacificists to serve their country in wartime without participating in violence (such as by serving as medics). If you're interested in learning more about the Society of Friends, you might want to head over to this website(!!) which might help you understand what you're trying to talk about.

The Shakers, on the other hand, are a lot more complex. They practiced (I use the past tense since there are so few left - they don't accept new members) a very extreme religion which embraced, among other things, celibacy which even extended to marital relations, communing with dead spirits and a belief that God was a male/female duality. I'm over-simplifying (I'm no expert on Shakers and the few that are left aren't exactly running around with pamphlets), but the truth is that they had practices which had little or nothing to do with the teachings most often attributed to Jesus Christ. I can't speak to the validity of their beliefs since I haven't had an actual conversation with God to get His views on the matter, but I hardly think that the Shakers can be pointed to as being examples of "true" or "genuine" Christians if one accepts the New Testament as representing His teachings (which most Christians - even the Quakers - do).

As a final note, I would say that I don't think William Penn, Thomas Paine, Herbert Hoover or Susan B. Anthony - Quakers all - invited "everyone else to walk all over [them]."

You should really pursue more education before letting your ass do your talking.

The Quakers also believe that God still reveals truth regularly, but they seem to be a lot more laid back about it. I'm pretty fond of them; my son goes to a Quaker school, and I'd almost certainly be Quaker if I was still a Christian.

More and more states are making these available, some on a shall issue basis, as they see the benifits of lower crime in other states that have done so.

Ahh, well...I live in a commonwealth founded by Quakers. In 2002 we ranked 44th in the country for violent and property-related crimes per 100,000. We do allow CCW, as well as abortions for some and miniature flags for others.

No throwing your vote away is voting for someone just because you don't think anyone else can win. It's a self fullfing prophecy.

You read Slashdot and didn't get the Simpson's reference? What kind of nerd are you, anyway? ;>)

From the SNPP:

See where you are:
Go ahead, take this test, I bet you score better than 85% of all people. Yes, that's pretty privileged.

What those beneath you get:
Poverty is not only low income and no assets. It is a condition of exclusion from the institutions and organizations of modern life. In many countries law courts, banks, education, health services, roads, water, electricity, even respect, are not available to the poor. It is harder for them to get permissions to open businesses, and they are often forced to pay bribes. I first became aware of this in 1972, when Robin and I wrote a check to a Kenyan family. When they tried to bank it, they were told they needed to file a lengthy application, with two recommendations by "respectable persons," to open an account. Neither an illiterate person nor one with no connections would have been able to do that. In most of the world, the poor live in a society distinct from the affluent - different institutions, organizations, and customs, and little communication between the two. The poor are looked down on and denied the courtesies available to others.

The growing disparity between you and them
Gini Index
"Estimates for the early years should be taken only as rough guides, but it's safe to say that income inequality is at levels not seen since the climax of the 1920s boom and the collapse into Depression. After peaking in 1932, the gini began a long downtrend that ended in 1968. It's been almost straight up ever since, pausing only during the mid-1970s and early-1990s recessions."

I was raised Baptist, taught "creation science," and I still have a stack of books by Josh McDowell somewhere. I just took a look at trueorigins.org, icr.org, and andswersingenesis.com. Nothing new there. I know the arguments. They are lies, designed to keep preachers and their churches in positions of authority and power.

Since college I have been a Quaker (Religious Society of Friends.) We have no problem with the possibility of God's motive force guiding and shaping natural selection. But we see the evidence of evolution in the world around us and we know that since God does not reveal himself to us as an ordinary occurance, that He expects us to use our head in relation to the fossil record, nuclaic cell biology, etc. We are not so stupid as to presume that Genesis is any more than an allegorical myth.

How presumptious is it of you to suggest that the omnipotent God is so weak that He could not have designed the very thought occuring in your head this moment when he set the universe in motion billions of years ago? Only your conformist herd mentality and desparate attempt to cling to the idea of an afterlife keep your nose in the Holy Babble, and result in your adherance to creationism. I feel sorry for your inability to believe in a God without buying in to the popular myths of your cultural ancestors over the millenia. You have more intelligence than that, and God wants you to make use of it, as a thinking human being capable of integrating the evidence you obtain from the scientific method and peer review, not as a superstitious sheep.

You asked.

I can see McD's as the new hangout for Quakers. Instant catered LAN party, and the participants have to buy at least one burger an hour to keep playing.

I don't. Quakers are pacifists, and as such would not want to play video games that involve death and destruction.

You seem to miss my point. What does inflating your currency (which is what Argentina did) have to do with free market policy (which is what you say Argentina did)? Argentina, like Turkey, is in trouble because its government thought that it could pay for everything by printing up money. Any free market liberal will tell you that inflating your currency is the road to rack and ruin. I really don't know if the World Bank told Argentina to inflate its currency. I hope not. In any case, Argentina did inflate (as did Turkey, just to replicate the experiment) and now their economy is in the dumps. Had they consulted even the least capable free-market economist, he would have predicted this future.

As for whether Economics is a science or not, well, a science makes predictions, and you can judge the scientific value of a theory by whether its predictions come true. Certainly there is a lot of folk-economics and faux-scientific economics. Such economics fails to pan out. You've seen that, I can tell. That doesn't mean that all economics is crap. Here's one prediction that's true: to the extent that it raises people's wages, a minimum wage law creates unemployment.

One type of economics which fails to suck over the long-term is free-market economics. Why? Because freedom lets everyone solve problems in parallel. You know, .......... like the world's largest Beowulf cluster. I had to say that, sorry. I've written an explanation of why a free market produces better results than centralization. Go read my analysis of the problem.

I offer a different analysis.
-russ

How the FSCK is this a war???????

I'm sorry if I missed the news announcement when the US openly declared war on all third war countries.

THIS WAS A CRIME, NOT A WAR we just have taken this as a convenient excuse for the atrocities that we will commit back in return just cuz we're pissed.

I REPEAT, THERE IS NO WAR.

here's a good article about it

Just-in New Buy.com Coupons [garlanger.com] .

This poster has a really good point -- usability is what really counts to the consumer. Does your mom really care what processor her cell phone uses? Does she care it can run Java? No. She cares that she can afford it, and it does what she requires. Therefore it is a successful product.

Now, please mod the parent as insightful or something.

Please type "Yes I understand that this is a very bad idea" to continue. -- apt

Rob Malda, the wannabe hacker and latecomer otaku, will soon be out on the streets, begging for spare change by the traffic light. He will spend his nights in a local shopping center, rubbing his ass against the shopping carts for kicks.

Jeff Bates, the wannabe scientist, will be forced to pimp out his little wifey -- amusing, because she's been an amateur whore for so many years already. Bates's primary customer will be Malda, whose Quarter Cartel shall make him one of the most prosperous bums in shopping center.

Gay Nik, although never really part of the Slashdork crew, will join this merry gang of homeless beggers, too, because what questionable BSD "skills" he many have are worthless in this day and age, a day and age in which *BSD is dying. (OpenBSD will never lose any users, though, because the only users it ever had were Theo "The Rat" De Raadt and his canine lover, Farmer.)

Jon Katz, a man who couldn't write an interesting article to save his life but whose knowledge of Microsoft Word's "spell check" facilities makes him a twerp among lamers at the Geek Compound, will make his living by designing the Slashdork crew's "Homeless, five children, please help, godbless" signage. Interestingly enough, the signs prove more of a challenge to Katz than any of the meaningless drivel that he ever spewed while leeching off of Slashdot.

CowboyNeal would be able to subsist on his own fat stores for approximately fifty years, if he weren't destined to be harpooned and eaten by a gang of minority squirrels.

Timothy Gaybone, Michael "Censorship NAZI" Himmler, Jamie "Gay Nights Online" McCarthy, Emmett "Stupid" Galacticon, and Krow the Wannabe DBA will also reside in the shopping center, and provide blowjobs on demand to the local "nerdcore" [geocities.com] fetish group.

Fuck you.

Troll Tuesday 2001. [geocities.com]

--The Messenger

• FUCKING AC -- Wrong!! (Score:-1)
  by Big_Ass_Spork on Wednesday November 14, @04:01PM (#2565634)
  (User #446856 Info | http://www.goatse.cx) lol lol lol lol lol lol lol ROFL lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol hehe ROTFLMFAO lol lol lol
  
  Shut the fuck up, bitch!
  
  ---
  All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it... [ Reply to This | Parent ]

• Nate, come to the dark side... (Score:-1)
  by Big_Ass_Spork on Wednesday November 14, @04:05PM (#2565661)
  (User #446856 Info | http://www.goatse.cx) You know you want to.
  
  ---
  All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it... [ Reply to This | Parent ]

I couldn't purchase anything with a name like "Yopy". It reminds me of the Doctor Seuss book, "Horton Hears a Who."

YOP! YOP! Yop! yop! ...

spookyworld.dnsalias.com [dnsalias.com]

Just-in New Buy.com Coupons [garlanger.com] .

This poster has a really good point -- usability is what really counts to the consumer. Does your mom really care what processor her cell phone uses? Does she care it can run Java? No. She cares that she can afford it, and it does what she requires. Therefore it is a successful product.

Now, please mod the parent as insightful or something.

Please type "Yes I understand that this is a very bad idea" to continue. -- apt

Rob Malda, the wannabe hacker and latecomer otaku, will soon be out on the streets, begging for spare change by the traffic light. He will spend his nights in a local shopping center, rubbing his ass against the shopping carts for kicks.

Jeff Bates, the wannabe scientist, will be forced to pimp out his little wifey -- amusing, because she's been an amateur whore for so many years already. Bates's primary customer will be Malda, whose Quarter Cartel shall make him one of the most prosperous bums in shopping center.

Gay Nik, although never really part of the Slashdork crew, will join this merry gang of homeless beggers, too, because what questionable BSD "skills" he many have are worthless in this day and age, a day and age in which *BSD is dying. (OpenBSD will never lose any users, though, because the only users it ever had were Theo "The Rat" De Raadt and his canine lover, Farmer.)

Jon Katz, a man who couldn't write an interesting article to save his life but whose knowledge of Microsoft Word's "spell check" facilities makes him a twerp among lamers at the Geek Compound, will make his living by designing the Slashdork crew's "Homeless, five children, please help, godbless" signage. Interestingly enough, the signs prove more of a challenge to Katz than any of the meaningless drivel that he ever spewed while leeching off of Slashdot.

CowboyNeal would be able to subsist on his own fat stores for approximately fifty years, if he weren't destined to be harpooned and eaten by a gang of minority squirrels.

Timothy Gaybone, Michael "Censorship NAZI" Himmler, Jamie "Gay Nights Online" McCarthy, Emmett "Stupid" Galacticon, and Krow the Wannabe DBA will also reside in the shopping center, and provide blowjobs on demand to the local "nerdcore" [geocities.com] fetish group.

Fuck you.

Troll Tuesday 2001. [geocities.com]

--The Messenger

• FUCKING AC -- Wrong!! (Score:-1)
  by Big_Ass_Spork on Wednesday November 14, @04:01PM (#2565634)
  (User #446856 Info | http://www.goatse.cx) lol lol lol lol lol lol lol ROFL lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol hehe ROTFLMFAO lol lol lol
  
  Shut the fuck up, bitch!
  
  ---
  All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it... [ Reply to This | Parent ]

• Nate, come to the dark side... (Score:-1)
  by Big_Ass_Spork on Wednesday November 14, @04:05PM (#2565661)
  (User #446856 Info | http://www.goatse.cx) You know you want to.
  
  ---
  All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it... [ Reply to This | Parent ]

I'm surprised this hasn't happened earlier. New York City is the most closed union shop you can possibly imagine. A number of trade shows refuse to exhibit at the Javits simply because you can't touch anything in your booth. If you want an extension cord plugged in, you can to pay a union electrician to do it. It's insane.
-russ
p.s. it's a crime, not a war. Expect resolution to take years -- that's the nature of criminal cases.

http://quaker.org . (I can't say any more than that lest I lose my Quaker badge, because we try very hard not to evangelize.)
-russ

I assume based on comment you will be moving to a Quaker community sometime soon

I think you're talking about the Amish or the Mennonites, not the Quakers, who use electricity, own computers (and use them to make web sites), drive cars, etc. etc.

A lot of people make the same mistake. I suspect it has something to do with the stupid Quaker Oats box, which has a picture of an 18th-century Quaker on it. However, Quakers have not tried to remain in the 18th century. They do have a few things in common with the Amish and Mennonites: They're "anabaptists" (look it up; it's a relatively obscure point of theology), and they're into "plainness" -- but being "plain" by Quaker standards does not imply using horses to plow fields. It's more like using HTML 1.0 on their web sites. This is a completely different group of people here. AFAIK all three groups are pacifists, because Christ was (in other words, they're Christians and Pat Robertson is not). As it happens, their roots are in England, not Germany as with the Amish etc. and in any case, the only quality you're referring to is one they do not share with the Amish, and that's the point.

Sendmail is really not a bad choice. If you can get over your fear of the sendmail.cf language, it's very servicable on a modern machine.

Sendmail's "insecurity" is largely a myth at this point. I do not recall seeing a root exploit since Sendmail-8.8, which was about three years ago. While qmail and Postfix can legitimately brag about being designed for security from the ground up, the sendmail team has done a pretty good cleanup job.

Doubting Thomases should consider that OpenBSD, the famously "ultra-secure" operating system, ships with sendmail, not qmail. How many people think that Theo de Raadt would put up with shipping software that has known exploits?

We use sendmail to run one of the largest mailing list sites in the world. My experiments with qmail were pretty hideous; qmail has serious problems out of the box with high-volume delivery. The mail queue backed up by several thousand messages, and one big list actually caused the server to crash. (I am told that there are patches available to improve qmail's performance on very-high-volume sites. We have not had the opportunity to try them, but given my experience I am not sure that we want to.)

I'm actually not a big fan of sendmail qua sendmail. But anti-sendmail sentiment is just pretty overblown these days, and the rebellion hype is not convincing. Sendmail is one of the classic open source success stories, it is a fine piece of software with a great future, and an excellent choice for a project to support.