Domain: ratical.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to ratical.org.
Comments · 143
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Re:Terrorist Clause
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Re:Great idea...Please indulge me with your conspiracy theories for my amusement.
Try googling for Opereration Northwood, one that did get declassified. Basically, your gov. wanted to shoot down civilian planes and shipping to justify a pre-emtive invasion of Cuba. It went all the way up to Kennedy, who was the only one that thought it morally reprehensible, and stopped it.
Quote from the original document:
The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.
The sad thing is, this all sounds strangely familiar...
And remember, this is one of the few that did get declassified. God knows what else your country has done. Despite the image presented by Hollywood, the USA is one of the most morally reprehensible countries on the planet. Your self-denial and ignorance of the problem makes it even worse.
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Re:(slightly ot) something to keep in mind
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Re:Where's the end of this cycle?
Oops, I clicked submit too soon.
I forgot to mention, this post is brought to you by:
Random posting through meta-moderation.
Well, I wouldn't post a followup just for that.
I also found this interesting link about corporate charters that I wanted to post. -
Re:Someone Really Dropped the Ball Posting This On
Yes, there's a lot of kooky stuff there. But it's not 100% kooky.
1. Depleted uranium has been classified by the UN (yeah, yeah) as an illegal weapon. The more I read on DU, the more concerned I get. Check this interview and this site for some info.
2. Please don't confuse criticism of the policies of the Israeli administration with 'Jew-hating'. It's a diservice to all concerned. Including those of us whose ancestors lived through anti-Semitic pogroms, but who may not think that the Israeli government has the right idea.
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Re:Hormesis
You bet, although it'll be short (a Google for radiation, epidemiology, and "Bernard Cohen" will get you more, as will "radiation" and "hormesis".
Idaho State has a site on radiaiton effects and radiation protection. They've also got some stuff on depleted uranium that looks good, although I've not read it in detail.
There is a journal devoted to low-dose radiation studies.
This page has about a zillion references. (Some of them disagree, by the way. This makes the page very useful.)
This paper has a nice discussion of hormesis and the linear no-threshold model.
BELLE Online is a good source in general. Also, the names "Bernard Cohen" and "Edward Calabrese" show up quite often.
One point about the "suspiciously low" cancer rates that I didn't say is that the rates in, eg, Cohen's epi paper are smoking-adjusted.
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You have no clue how this country works, do you?
do some research before you throw insults around.
wikipedia
Reclaim Democracy
The supreme court decision -
Re:Rights? Apply to PEOPLE
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Re:Rights? Apply to PEOPLEUh, we got that notion in 1886, when the Supreme Court upheld a decision that "a private corporation is a person and entitled to the legal rights and protections the Constitutions affords to any person".
Stupid? Yep. Legal? Unfortunately.
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actually forced through TRIPS treatyShould be pointed out that this was a condition of the WTO's TRIPS treaty of 1995:
Here the World Trade Organization (WTO) lent the biotech industry a shoulder to cry on by allowing the major players to formulate the Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights Agreement (TRIPS) which came into force in 1995. TRIPS aims to force all countries to take on board a menu of biotech patents and 'harmonize' their national patenting regimes accordingly - the aim is to make the world follow the US example.
This book review at Nature says: 'Central to this analysis is the account of the negotiation of TRIPS, whereby the campaign for globalized intellectual-property standards was shifted to the international trade agenda. Developing countries were persuaded to sign up to TRIPS in exchange for the liberalization of world trade markets. The subsequent failure of these markets to materialize (witness US steel tariffs and farm subsidies in the United States and Europe) also goes some way to explaining the growing disenchantment with TRIPS.'See also why Biotech patents are patently absurd. As members of the WTO, and signatories to TRIPS, these countries really don't have a choice; they'd be in breach of the TRIPS treaty if they do not ratify these laws.
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Re:3 microREMsThere is a fascinating online book on the subject, Secret Fallout. What is interesting is not just the statistics (increase in child mortalities and failed pregnancies after nuclear tests), but all the institutional resistance. The Atomic energy industry didnt want to believe the resuls, and the (primarily government) institutions fought its publication and argued every step of the way.
These are of course, the same people saying these backscatter x-rays are safe. If they arent, well, a lot of people are going to have been exposed before that becomes clear.
I am not outstandingly worried as (a) the exposure from cosmic rays of any over-the-pole flight is bound to be worse, and (b) back in '85 I was caught out in rain that turned out to be from chernobyl.That was in Scotland, where some places are still so radioactive that they have to decontaminate sheep before sale for human consumption.
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I'd Trust Thomas Jefferson over any "think tank"
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it
expects what never was and never will
be . . . The People cannot be safe without
information. When the press is free, and
every man is able to read, all is safe."
Thomas Jefferson
I'd Trust Thomas Jefferson over any unknown
political "think tank" - auntie.
I think Germans trusted too much in
the Goebbels think thank in WW2.
Who do you trust?
Btw. this is what people are not allowed to know.
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Re:Greedy Fingers
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maybe, but
Sometimes you've just gotta smack some people.
Maybe, but you don't have to smack his mother, his cousin's whole family, his entire neighborood, a significant fraction of the architecture in his city, their power and water, and dump hundreds worth of tons of radioactive armaments into his environment. That's what the fuss is about. -
Re:So, how much...
Well, it's not strictly about the oil. More about what currency is used to pay for the oil.
"The Federal Reserve's greatest nightmare is that OPEC will switch its international transactions from a dollar standard to a euro standard. Iraq actually made this switch in Nov. 2000 (when the euro was worth around 82 cents), and has actually made off like a bandit considering the dollar's steady depreciation against the euro. (Note: the dollar declined 17% against the euro in 2002.)
"The real reason the Bush administration wants a puppet government in Iraq -- or more importantly, the reason why the corporate-military-industrial network conglomerate wants a puppet government in Iraq -- is so that it will revert back to a dollar standard and stay that way." (While also hoping to veto any wider OPEC momentum towards the euro, especially from Iran -- the 2nd largest OPEC producer who is actively discussing a switch to euros for its oil exports)."
You see, the United states cannot allow the oil economy to be based upon anything but the US dollar. To do so would mean that the government could no longer operate with such an astounding defecit (almost 40% of the annual GDP). The United States would go bankrupt if this happened. -
Unfortunately, he's correct...
In 1866, the Supreme Court ruled that corporations have the same rights as living persons. They leaned on the Fourteenth Amendment, not the First, but if a corporation is a person, it has First Amendment rights, too.
I agree this sucks, but it's hard to do anything about a century-old precedent. -
Re:Except for one minor problem...
That was 'fixed' by the USPA.. Key quote:
"Section 901 of the USA PATRIOT Act would empower the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency ("DCI"), to establish the priorities for the collection and dissemination of intelligence information gathered in the U.S."
And I highly doubt they would be interested in what books a person reads, but that's just me.
Uh, they want to know if people entering the US asked for meals without pork...
This could be a subtle atempt to outlaw certain books. People would be scared away from 'subversive' material if they knew that the Gov't was watching their every move. -
Operation Northwood - US shooting down airlinerI guess this refers to Operation Northwood.
US plan to shoot down an airliner and blame the Cubans, so providing a pretext to invade Cuba in 1963.
Was this for real? or is it a spoof? can anybody provide references - rather than just their - obviously golden - slashdot opinions? I would love to know if some of these plans were actually on the table at the time... -
Re:There was no court ruling
Here's your damned ruling:
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There was no court ruling (urg! 2nd try)
It wasn't until the late 1800s did a court ruling determine that corporations were people and thus were entitled to the same rights as flesh and blood citizens.
Actually, it was more like this:In the 1886 Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad case, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the state tax assessor, not the county assessor, had the right to determine the taxable value of fenceposts along the railroad's right-of-way.
For the complete background, and very interesting reading, see Humans Vs. Corporations or if that'sHowever, in writing up the case's headnote -- a commentary that has no precedential status -- the Court's reporter, a former railroad president named J.C. Bancroft Davis, opened the headnote with the sentence: "The defendant Corporations are persons within the intent of the clause in section 1 of the Fourteen Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
/.ed, try here. -
Re:Double jeopardy?Can you learn to fucking use links you god damn penis?
<a href="http://www.ratical.org/corporations/SCvSPR1
http://www.ratical.org/corporations/SCvSPR1886.ht8 86.html">http://www.ratical.org/corporations/SCvSP R1886.html</a>m l
And dont complain if you see extra spaces in the fucking text of that link (the ahref part is right), its Slashcode that fucks that up [its a rule to try and break up long streams of contiguous text]. Try it youself.
FUCKER. -
Remembering dead technology
When seeing the comment about how computers are becoming tombs for information, I was immediately reminded of the "atomic priesthood" (discussed here and elsewhere) that has sometimes been offered as one way to keep track of another kind of decaying technology, old nuclear fuel dumps and reactor sites. Those can remain deadly for eons, certainly beyond the survival even of the English language (or any other current language). How do you warn people 10,000 years from now that a small hill in an unnamed valley is actually highly radioactive? What is the equivalent of "don't dig here" in the language of 10,000 years hence? One answer seems to be that only commands from G*d are translated with any tenacity (let alone accuracy) such that future generations will know not to dig on ground hallowed by some presumed religious event in the dim past (um...that would be next year for us). If you can overcome the rank cynicism, the implications in all this for the future are troubling to say the least.
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Re:The Plutocratic Government
This page presents a pedigree for the statement.
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Environmentalists probably are pissed...
Ok, sometimes I just can't help feeding the trolls, so here goes...
Ever heard of something called the Precautionary Principle? It's a risk/hazard assessment method becoming common (it's already law for certain things in the EU) for environmental (and other) use around the world, and it looks at ways of minimizing risks, hazards, and above all, harm, which is really what environmentalism is about, not a bleeding-heart slavish devotion to "cute."
As for myself, speaking as at least some kind of an environmentalist, I'm not sure injecting extinct animals back into the ecosystem (which is a very heavy system, go read your systems theory again) is a good idea. At best, it should only happen after a thorough risk/hazard assessment, including long-term second and onward order results modelling, and then only if there's no "reasonable doubt."
On the bright side, it doesn't look as though they're far enough along with this project to warrant serious paranoia...yet.
Oh, and...the thing wasn't a "puddy tat." It was a carnivorous marsupial; hardly the kind of thing I'd want in my bed, and probably not (judging by other marsupials) cute in the least, and it probably got the name "tiger" because of the non-cute tiger-like traits it had (hunting, killing, perhaps?). So, please, a little credit? -
Re:Too late
My guess is that you're think of the Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific RR case from 1886. It's actually quite interesting. The Supreme Court decided that the 14th Amendment applies to corporations.
"The court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all of opinion that it does."
It was quite a landmark case. You can read the original ruling, or see one of many interpretations. -
Re:That's it...I'm out of here...
You forget that what becomes law here will become law everywhere via the WTO. There is no escape we must fight both the government and the transnational corporations untile they have the proper regard and respect for the sovereignty of the individual again.
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Re:XRay....This article is a nationwide study on the x-ray dose levels that patients are exposed to during various medical procedures. You'll see that it confirms the numbers I stated above.
Further inspection reveals that airports actually use two different strength scanners. Checked luggage goes through a high-intensity scanner, such as an Invision Technologies CTX baggage scanner. This scanner starts with a low power beam, but can send a focused beam (1cm containing 100-300 milliRoentgens) on suspicious areas if closer analysis is required. The focused beam is actually a Computed Tomography scan, of the type that takes 5000milliRoentgens to do to one's head, so it's still less powerful than the medical version.
According to FAA Regulation 108.17
If the X-ray system exposes any carry-on or checked articles to more than 1 milliroentgen during the inspection, the certificate holder shall post a sign which advises passengers to remove film of all kinds from their articles before inspection.
But you'll note that airports all tell you it's safe to let your film and camera go through the carry-on luggage x-ray. That's because they expose your luggage to less than 1 milliRoentgen. If they can't see what they need, they still have Explosive and Narcotic Detection Systems, and manual searches available.So you see, I wasn't throwing numbers around. I was making factual statements, you useless troll.
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Re:It's been time, join the club
Yep. Thats why many of us are protesting. We no longer live in a democracy we live in a plutocracy. Thre are going to be large protests at the meetings of 2 of the most avid promoters in DC at the end of September. Tell your friends and be prepared to educate people on the issues of liberty, technology and free speech that you feel most concerned about. (Many people don't know what is going on with the tech side of things. I am sure that you could widen support against the DMCA and strict IP laws by educating people about it)
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Re:What's wrong with this?
That's a gutsy statement from a slashdot reader, that probably realizes that corporations can lobby for laws like the DMCA, and then prosecute people, and prompt raids to confiscate and arrest people who have DVD's that are region-coded for another country. Then there's the poison water and dead ecosystems from oil spills, the Nike sweatshops, the Gap sweatshops, the genetically altered food that isn't labelled because genetics isn't an exact science and corporations afraid that if people knew what was genetically 'enhanced' their profits would suffer. Did I mention that the corporations that make genetically altered foods are in this business because their previous business of making chemical weapons dried up? Then there's corporate welfare. Examples of this include billionaire Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen's successful effort to build a $300 million dollar stadium for his billionaire Seattle Seahawks, and have taxpayers foot the bill. Corporate Welfare costs the country at least $150 billion a year, and it goes to companies like GM, IBM, AT&T, GE, and Motorola, to name a few. Drug companies and HMO's lobby on a daily basis to increase profit at the expense of human lives. They profit fine in Canada, despite being required to actually make life saving medicine affordable. You might've heard about elderly people taking buses there to get pills. Tobacco companies planned advertising campaigns to specifically target 11-18 year olds, and when the research on the results came out, when the lawsuits started flying, they bought off congress to bring the backlash to an end.
To say that any of this is the product of a free country and a government not empowered to take away rights is naive. The founders never meant for corporations to have rights. WHY SHOULD THEY? Why should an entity comprised of people who ALL have rights that are absolute have rights of it's own!? It's NOT EVEN A PERSON. And in fact the founders understood that business HAD to be regulated in order to preserve democracy for everyone, from a farmer to a CEO. But greed won out, and now we get all our news and information from corporate elitists. And people have a distorted view of democracy; believing that profiteers somehow have their best interests in mind, 'surely they're not driven by PROFIT and profit alone! Damn that evil government for picking on a poor multinational corporation!' And with attitudes like that none of it will change until corporations ARE the government.
Think of it this way; we all hate an oppressive government. This is America. Echelon, Carnivore, they both deserve to be brought to an end. The thing is, if you have a beef with the government in a democracy, you can run for office and change the government. At least you used to be able to. But ask any politician of any party what it takes to win an election, and they will tell you that these days, the guy with the most money wins. And where does that money come from? Corporations. -
Re:The beginning of the end for free speech.
This ruling is nothing of the sort, and I think you'd agree with some more thought on the subject. It applies to misrepresentation, and I've seen all sorts of hoopla about how it's forced speech, but it should fall under the category of illegalizing deceptive advertising, cause that's what it is. And if anyone wants to tell me that laws against advertising that outright lies is unconstitutional, well, I could use a good laugh.
PErsonally I don't believe that there's an ounce of logic in giving a business comprised of people with rights rights of it's own. It's an it, and a marketing business doesn't have 1st amendment rights as far as I'm concerned. -
Re:Gawd.
This is my problem with the Libertarian party, and you've summed it up nicely. They understand what's right and what's wrong, but they're so misguided by anti-government rhetoric that they blind themselves to any possibility that a greedy, money-making machine, might be as big a problem as an oppressive government. Corporations are made up of people with rights like you and I, but the 'fascist government' you despise gave the corporation itself, the rights of an individual. A soulless machine with profit as it's only priority, has the same constitutional rights as a person with morals and ethics. These 'benefits' are bought and paid for, but despite the fact that they're sold by a corrupt government (that I imagine you agree is a problem), liberals can't see beyond a starry-eyed dream of 'capitalism in a free market'. At least, not long enough to admit that Corporate America is just as problematic. The founding fathers wrote corporate law for a reason, and it became unenforceable when corporations won the rights of a person. We can't restrict people from owning more than one home or business, we can't restrict their free speech, or their right to support an elected official with their hard-earned money. So now we can't Viacom/Infinity from owning half the radio stations in the country; now laws that regulate how many they can own are being misconstrued and shot down as 'unconstitutional'. We can't keep corporations from burying our government in bribes, because the money they spend is protected by the freaking 1st amendment! And when they use their mass-media ownership to give the entire country breaking news on crib safety instead of corporate welfare, there's nothing we can do but pile up on the couch and kiss democracy good-bye -- because corporate america is the American dream! A pristine ideal of profit in the free world! Besides, who cares about a little plutocaracy? If we don't watch dateline tonight our babies might die!!
/vent -
Re:Dose of RealityI put GE on the list mostly because it's a large arms manufacturer. 10 Worst Corp. of 1988 notes how GE is one of the biggest Nuclear Weapons manufacturer.
There was a large boycott on the company in the early 90s. GE practiced censorship at NBC during this time in regards to the matter. I honestly can't remember all of what the boycott was about.
They also show up on the 10 worst corporations of 1994, and 1992, and 1991. I think they've fallen off since then because nuclear issues aren't a big deal now. I'd be more concerned about other weapons dealing, but I really don't know how GE markets their weapons, or what kind they make.
Those 10-worst lists also note that GE has consistently practiced fraud and bribery in their dealings with the government. Considering military spending is currently up, while any need for a military is significantly down, I imagine fraud and bribery is more powerful than ever among military contractors. OTOH, bad as those things are, it's only money and greed, not like having people assassinated or anything (like Shell).
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Criminal Law=victims with injury
Implict in this case is a troubling concept. But if you follow the mental experiment, it could shake some fundamental principles of how the Western economy works.
There are 2 main branches of law, Criminal and Civil. The defining characteristic of Criminal law is "victims with injury"; civil law (a/k/a "equity law") deals with contracts.
Now Randal was an employee of Intel, and all employment arangements are contractual in nature. Please see my page relating to employment drug testing for information about employment contracts: http://www.ip4noman.org/principles.html
Now what Randal did was perhaps a violation a of professional conduct (certainly), or a breech of his contract w/Intel (although I doubt it), and subject to cancelation of it, or even the pursuit of civil remedies, but this is claimed to be a CRINMINAL case...
The Lawful Arrest FAQ points out that the objective proof that a crime occured is called "corpus delicti", which requires- a victim who has injury, and
- a criminal cause (as opposed to an accident, or act of god)
Now this brings up a question: What is the name of the victim? Is it Intel Corportation? Can a corporation be a crime victim? And the nature of the injury? Certainly a person can receive a broken arm, or loss of life, but how exactly can a corporation be injured?
You see, corporations are defined under the law as an "Artifical Person" for these reasons:- "persons" can own property,
- "persons" have rights,
- "persons" can engage in contracts,
- "persons" can sue and be sued, and presumably
- "persons" can be injured, "persons" can be crime victims
I personally question the notion that these "artifical persons", or "corpses" as Dave Ratcliffe calls them, these human constructions which own most of the property in America, which have more political clout than any natural person, which have more financial resources than any of us, I question whether these soulless abstractions without a moral consciousness can be considered an honorable creature (honor is requirement to being a party to a contract). I question what it means for a corporation to own land or TV stations, and wonder where the present system will take us. I especially question the notion that corporations can be injured, or can be crime victims.
The case of Randal Schwartz is extremely important, and is related to many cases of late (mafiaboy, Emmanual Goldstein/2600, Kevin Mitnick, Oprah Winfrey's free-speech case against the cattle industry, etc.) ... all against alleged "corporate crime victims".
If we don't protest this, soon we all will/could be accuesd of some non-crimes like "uttering a trademarked expression without paying propery royalty, and in a disparaging fashion leading to loss of the profit that a corporation rightly deserves" or some such foolishness...
We live in interesting times, this year of our lord, nineteen hundred eighty four...
Implict in this case is a troubling concept. But if you follow the mental experiment, it could shake some fundamental principles of how the Western economy works.
There are 2 main branches of law, Criminal and Civil. The defining characteristic of Criminal law is "victims with injury"; civil law (a/k/a "equity law") deals with contracts.
Now Randal was an employee of Intel, and all employment arangements are contractual in nature. Please see my FAQ relating to employment drug testing for information about contracts: http://www.ip4noman.org/principles.html
Now what Randal did was perhaps a violation a of professional conduct (certainly), or a breech of his contract w/Intel (although I doubt it), and subject to cancelation of it even the pursuit of civil remedies, but this is claimed to be a CRINMINAL case...
The Lawful Arrest FAQ points out that the objective proof that a crime occured is called "corpus delicti", which requires- a victim who has injury, and
- a criminal cause (as opposed to an accident
Now this brings up a question: What is the name of the victim? Is it Intel Corportation? Can a corporation be a crime victim? And the nature of the injury? Certainly a person can receive a broken arm, or loss of life, but how exactly can a corporation be injured?
You see, corporations are defined under the law as an "Artifical Person" for these reasons:- "persons" can own property,
- "persons" have rights,
- "persons" can engage in contracts,
- "persons" can sue and be sued, and presumably
- "persons" can be injured, "persons" can be crime victims
I personally question the notion that these "artifical persons", or "corpses" as Dave Ratcliffe calls them, these human constructions which own most of the property in America, which have more political clout than any natural person, which have more financial resources than any of us, I question whether these soulless abstractions without a moral consciousness can be considered an honorable creature (honor is requirement to being a party to a contract). I question what it means for a corporation to own land or TV stations, and wonder where the present system will take us. I especially question the notion that corporations can be injured, or can be crime victims.
The case of Randal Schwartz is extremely important, and is related to many cases of late (mafiaboy, Emmanual Goldstein/2600, Kevin Mitnick, Oprah Winfrey's free-speech case against the cattle industry, etc. ... all against alleged "corporate crime victims".
If we don't protest this, soon we all will/could be accuesd of some non-crimes like "uttering a trademarked expression without paying propery royalty, and in a disparaging fashion leading to loss of the profit that a corporation rightly deserves" or some such foolishness...
We live in interesting times, this year of our lord, nineteen hundred eighty four...
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Criminal Law=victims with injury
Implict in this case is a troubling concept. But if you follow the mental experiment, it could shake some fundamental principles of how the Western economy works.
There are 2 main branches of law, Criminal and Civil. The defining characteristic of Criminal law is "victims with injury"; civil law (a/k/a "equity law") deals with contracts.
Now Randal was an employee of Intel, and all employment arangements are contractual in nature. Please see my page relating to employment drug testing for information about employment contracts: http://www.ip4noman.org/principles.html
Now what Randal did was perhaps a violation a of professional conduct (certainly), or a breech of his contract w/Intel (although I doubt it), and subject to cancelation of it, or even the pursuit of civil remedies, but this is claimed to be a CRINMINAL case...
The Lawful Arrest FAQ points out that the objective proof that a crime occured is called "corpus delicti", which requires- a victim who has injury, and
- a criminal cause (as opposed to an accident, or act of god)
Now this brings up a question: What is the name of the victim? Is it Intel Corportation? Can a corporation be a crime victim? And the nature of the injury? Certainly a person can receive a broken arm, or loss of life, but how exactly can a corporation be injured?
You see, corporations are defined under the law as an "Artifical Person" for these reasons:- "persons" can own property,
- "persons" have rights,
- "persons" can engage in contracts,
- "persons" can sue and be sued, and presumably
- "persons" can be injured, "persons" can be crime victims
I personally question the notion that these "artifical persons", or "corpses" as Dave Ratcliffe calls them, these human constructions which own most of the property in America, which have more political clout than any natural person, which have more financial resources than any of us, I question whether these soulless abstractions without a moral consciousness can be considered an honorable creature (honor is requirement to being a party to a contract). I question what it means for a corporation to own land or TV stations, and wonder where the present system will take us. I especially question the notion that corporations can be injured, or can be crime victims.
The case of Randal Schwartz is extremely important, and is related to many cases of late (mafiaboy, Emmanual Goldstein/2600, Kevin Mitnick, Oprah Winfrey's free-speech case against the cattle industry, etc.) ... all against alleged "corporate crime victims".
If we don't protest this, soon we all will/could be accuesd of some non-crimes like "uttering a trademarked expression without paying propery royalty, and in a disparaging fashion leading to loss of the profit that a corporation rightly deserves" or some such foolishness...
We live in interesting times, this year of our lord, nineteen hundred eighty four...
Implict in this case is a troubling concept. But if you follow the mental experiment, it could shake some fundamental principles of how the Western economy works.
There are 2 main branches of law, Criminal and Civil. The defining characteristic of Criminal law is "victims with injury"; civil law (a/k/a "equity law") deals with contracts.
Now Randal was an employee of Intel, and all employment arangements are contractual in nature. Please see my FAQ relating to employment drug testing for information about contracts: http://www.ip4noman.org/principles.html
Now what Randal did was perhaps a violation a of professional conduct (certainly), or a breech of his contract w/Intel (although I doubt it), and subject to cancelation of it even the pursuit of civil remedies, but this is claimed to be a CRINMINAL case...
The Lawful Arrest FAQ points out that the objective proof that a crime occured is called "corpus delicti", which requires- a victim who has injury, and
- a criminal cause (as opposed to an accident
Now this brings up a question: What is the name of the victim? Is it Intel Corportation? Can a corporation be a crime victim? And the nature of the injury? Certainly a person can receive a broken arm, or loss of life, but how exactly can a corporation be injured?
You see, corporations are defined under the law as an "Artifical Person" for these reasons:- "persons" can own property,
- "persons" have rights,
- "persons" can engage in contracts,
- "persons" can sue and be sued, and presumably
- "persons" can be injured, "persons" can be crime victims
I personally question the notion that these "artifical persons", or "corpses" as Dave Ratcliffe calls them, these human constructions which own most of the property in America, which have more political clout than any natural person, which have more financial resources than any of us, I question whether these soulless abstractions without a moral consciousness can be considered an honorable creature (honor is requirement to being a party to a contract). I question what it means for a corporation to own land or TV stations, and wonder where the present system will take us. I especially question the notion that corporations can be injured, or can be crime victims.
The case of Randal Schwartz is extremely important, and is related to many cases of late (mafiaboy, Emmanual Goldstein/2600, Kevin Mitnick, Oprah Winfrey's free-speech case against the cattle industry, etc. ... all against alleged "corporate crime victims".
If we don't protest this, soon we all will/could be accuesd of some non-crimes like "uttering a trademarked expression without paying propery royalty, and in a disparaging fashion leading to loss of the profit that a corporation rightly deserves" or some such foolishness...
We live in interesting times, this year of our lord, nineteen hundred eighty four...
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Re:In some ways, it does
America didn't invent the corporation
Well, actually you didnt. But America is responsible for the present state of the Economic World. America has been used by Capitalists as a breading/staging ground on the rest of the planet.
Please read these two links here and here. American Plutocrats have managed to use the natural resources of the unexploited 'America'. They are now starting a campaign of Imperialism this world has never seen through the WTO, World Bank et al.
AMERICANS have got to take control of their Government and bring these groups back to reality... please do it soon... No one likes the direction you're (were) heading.
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www.gwbinanoose.comJump in with your own predictions
This will be the four years that 'break the camels back'. The Ultraconservative, Pro-Business, Anti-Citizen policies of the Republican government will be the force that finally destroys the present power structure in the US of America. Violence in the streets, Massive Marches and Huge Rallies will force the following to occur (by the grace of $YOUR_DIETY)
- The WTO, WIPO, FTAA and its proponents are abandoned after masses of people converge on all their meetings to stop their collusive $whoring$.
- The Electoral College is abandoned, Public Funding for all elections at all levels in enacted, the National Debate Commission is returned to a Pro-Democratic Agency & Read-My-Sig.
- Campaign Contributions by For-Profit entities is made illegal.
- Legislation is introduced that makes Corporate Officers personally responsible for the actions of their underlings/the actions of the corporation they 'rule' with regards to environmental, labour and civil law.
- The UN is used to entrench world-wide standards for Labour, The Environment, Civil Rights and Social Responsibility*
- Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company - the 1886 landmark case giving business rights as persons is overturned. This returns Sanity to a world where corporate entities are once again responsible to the citizens of their respective operating locations.
- International Law creates Anti-Trust Laws that make todays laws look like a Corporate Nirvana.
- International Law is written that makes all elected Officials Responsible to uphold the new "International Declaration of Human, Civic and Environmental Rights". Any entity or individual who attempts to subvert these rights (similar to those in the US Constitution or Canadian Charter) are charged criminally and removed from office.
- America's absurd Military spending is seen as it truely is: An armed offensive force, defending no person, fueld by profitteering defence contractors, used as an Imperialistic tool of Corporate America. 95% of its budget are diverted to other projects.
- All laws that relate to Legislated morals are struck down, the separation of church and state is renewed. (*Abortion becomes a fundamental right, Drug Prohibition Ends (with it the 'War on Drugs'), Prostitution is Legalized, Gay Rights are forever protected, absurd Public Clothing Laws are abolished, etc etc etc).
- Bush will resign under threat of Revolution.
Now, I invite you all to please 'Jump in with your own predictions'
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Democracy purchased by corporations.
The problem is our entire political system. A corporation can purchase influence from lawmakers for a tiny fraction of the benefit they derive when "favorable" laws are passed, such as the DMCA.
The heart and soul of the problem is that our politicians have whored themselves out. I am friends with a former lobbiest, and he asserts that, while money was given, it was in exchange for the politician's time, not to purchase influence. But when you may pay someone to listen to your case, that in effect is purchasing influence.
Someone once said that democracy is doomed once the people realize they may extort money from the government, but we are seeing the destruction of democracy due to corporations taking advantage of politicians lust for power and position to buy off the rights of the citizenry.
We are serfs once again. Not to a king, but to the corporations which control the strings of our puppet leaders.
Read this for a little more toned down version. I'm not a Nader fan, but we must address the issue of individual versus corporate versus states rights before more radical action is demanded of us.
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Re:You are probably right
If by by 'dealing with modern society', you mean 'providing for yourself and your family', then I don't doubt that someone who declares himself incapable would be a fervent supporter of such government dole programs.
Did I say anything about 'welfare'? No. What im saying is the entire system is designed to consume people, the planet, and any display of altruism is punished (if it dosnt maximize profit - it is waste). The rules dont have to be this way - most people would agree, if you took a door to door poll people would say "yes, the system is unfare and biased and corrupt". What i am advocating is changing the system (i feel like a hippie ;). Why not change laws? Elect good officials.. cant elect good officials because of the Republicrat domination? Answer: Change the system, change the voting method, repeal Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad? and destroy any law thats purpose is to serve anything but the interest of citizens.
How about taking a little responsibility for yourself
I have two degrees, a stable fulfilling relationship and work 50* hours a week. Which is about 25hrs too many.
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Re:You are probably right
Our military is hated because the current administration
Exactly - no one likes a bully. Violence is never right. Two wrongs dont make a right. Pretty simple stuff.
Im from Canada. The way I view America is very simple. The people are much the same as most everyone else. America has enjoyed a very unique position in recent history (as Canada has) that no war has ever been fought on our soil, we have never had the misfortune of rebuilding from massive devistion (listen a second-im not a conspiracy nut ;).. anyway USA has had a very prosperous 100 years... and they have become arrogant and boisterous ... Americans dont want to be part of a developing world, America is on a conquest to push its corporate culture down the throat of the rest of the world. It goes without saying that the extreme capitalism that America advocates is not the most compassionate and desirable future. It lies about advocating democracy - the examples abound in your own country. It lies to its people, Clinton & his intern, Iran Contra, Echelon and Nixon. All heinous acts; quickly forgotten.
Waether it is attainable or not, the world should collectively be striving to make the world a better place - more utopian. But America, which has the good fortune of being in a very powerful position (for the afore mentioned reason(and maybe others) seems to want to act contrary to that. They dont build culture, they build McDonalds, they dont build community they build advertising/marketing agencies... commerce isnt a lifestyle, its a 'tool'. Trade isnt a personality trait.
America is pushing a future that is cold and impersonate. America is Big Business, cold and heartless, bent on one goal - make profit, and (im gonna get flammed) profit is a bad thing. Profit simply means you reap more reward than your expense. If all people are created equal with the same rights why would America feel that they deserve to make 'profit' (or take) from other people? Now, capitalism is a good system when applied properly, when used as tool but always under the control of citizens I think Asimov's Laws of Robotics could wisely be adapted somewhat to corporations. Replace robot with business and human with 'human/environment/culture etc'.
It is a very idealistic view, but being idealistic dosnt mean its wrong. Because 'it will never work' also dosnt make it wrong. The fact is the world is developing a great many wondrous things (technology, health, knowledge, art (!RIAA), ect) and the world has never seen so much growth of possibilities. But again, CorporateAmerica will further entrench IP law to protect big business at the expense of the future, liberty and the freedom of the worlds citizens.
The country that COULD join a group and lead us to a better place is instead seen as a great selfish evil.
To start you could get the corporate whores and dollars out of your politics, revoke the corporate charters of a few hundred major corporations, abandon your army (or relinquish control of your military forces (but much, much fewer) to a world body), change your voting system (learned a lot today!), retract about 75% or your laws (including Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad), legalize drugs and prostitution. Ect ect ect.
How would you do this? Start by telling your friends/neighbors/relatives to: -
Corporate Charters
Candidates:
Under what conditions, if any, should a Corporate Charter be revoked? Would you support a measure to overturn the 1886 ruling of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad? which ruled that a corporation was a "natural person" and was protected as such. Are you aware of the movement to revoke the charter of Unical? What is your position on this action.
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Re:luddites were about freedom, not so neo-luddite
the people protesting the WTO, World Bank, and IMF (and the Republican and Democrat Conventions) are spoiled, self-important, ignorant facsists.
I think you don't know what you are speaking of. Try reading the literature of some of the opponents of the WTO. One such paper is here.
Some excerpts:
The removal of import controls and tariffs on the entry of cheap agricultural products has undermined indigenous subsistence agriculture and led to the bankruptcy of small-scale indigenous farmers. This is pushing them to abandon their organic and low-impact agricultural practices and shift to high-chemical input, commercial cash-crop production. To add insult to injury, those who were pushed to shift to the production of so-called `high-value, globally competitive' crops, could not even rely on any support and protection anymore since these are considered trade barriers.
...The destruction of the traditional lifestyles of indigenous peoples because of the appropriation of their lands and resources, has resulted not only in the degradation of the environment but also in ill health, and high levels of stress manifested in alcoholism and suicides. This is a conclusion reached in the "International Consultation of the World Health Organization with Indigenous Peoples"
...The liberalization of investment laws, like the Philippine Mining Act of 1995, has allowed for the entry of foreign mining corporations. They are allowed to lease lands for 75 years, are given the right to evict peoples from these mineral lands, and have full rights to the water. They can also repatriate 100% of the profits. Indigenous peoples who were not successful in resisting the entry of these mines, now find themselves displaced and the use of open-pit mining methods is destroying their lands and polluting the seas and rivers.
Some excerpts:
While total world trade expanded rapidly in the past two decades, the 48 poorest countries--where 10 percent of the world's population live--saw their share of world exports decline by almost half. The U.S. and the Western Europe countries have roughly the same total population as the 48 poorest countries--but account for almost half of the world's exports. More than 80 countries in the Third World are worse off today economically than they were a decade ago. Global food production increased almost 25 percent between 1990 and 1997--yet 800 million people around the world are malnourished.
"Free trade" and globalization are also leading to further impoverishment and ruin of peasant farmers around the world. Small farmers in countries like Mexico, India and the Philippines cannot compete with cheaper agricultural imports from countries like the U.S. This is contributing to massive social dislocation in the countryside of the Third World and accelerating concentration of land ownership--while traditional agriculture and basic food production are being destroyed. When the NAFTA Treaty went into effect in 1994, there were estimates that millions of Mexican peasants were going to lose their land over the next decade.
Aside from the reality of the severe effects of the WTO on the world, I really have to wonder how when people protest and are met by tear gas and billy clubs how the people doing the protesting are the 'fascists.'
have a day,
-l
have a day,
-l
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Abraham Lincoln on corporatism"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."
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Re:Corporations don't have rights
You seem to have forgotten that Microsoft is private property.
No. Microsoft is a corporation, an artificial creation of a state government. (Washington? Or did they do the sleazy incorporate-where-the-laws-are-lax thing?)Part of me would like to see the state in question just revoke MS's corporate charter, because it would overnight end the corporate plutocracy in the US. (It would also cause all hell to break loose, which is fun to watch so long as you're not in the middle of it.) Unfortunately, this "corporate death penalty" has been almost unused for the past hundred years.