Slashdot Mirror

http://www.safercar.gov/v2v/pd...

The security discussion begins around page 128. The proposed public key rotation would use a bunch of public keys each week, requiring about 1K public keys per year. It also suggests quick expiration of certificates. Although the proposal does not say it, as a practical matter this sounds like it will become a great way for vehicle vendors to charge you a few hundred bucks a year for required certificates and to get you back to the dealer. It also makes it harder for anyone other than the manufacturer or dealer to data mine.

"To help improve the level of confidence in BSM messages the agency’s primary message authentication proposal describes a Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) approach to message authentication. ... In addition two alternatives are presented for comment. This first alternative for message authentication set out for comment is less prescriptive and defines a performance-basedbased approach rather than a specific architecture or technical requirement. The second alternative set out for comment stays silent on message authentication and does not specify a message authentication requirement, leaving authentication at the discretion of V2V device implementers"

this disproves your mustang tested higher for 2013 models http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl... and 2014 tests.. http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl...

this disproves your mustang tested higher for 2013 models http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl... and 2014 tests.. http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl...

n.b. Leaf Owner.

Agreed. The leaf is just too range challenged. (Claims 100miles, owners say half of that)

Leaf owners aren't claiming 50 mile ranges, at least not in bulk.

I do blended highway/city driving in a huge sprawl city, and I get about 86. [That's 3.9 miles per kWh, which jives with what a lot of people will tell you.] Even under the worst possible conditions (all freeway) I get the 70 miles necessary to go to my office and back.

Add to that, the leaf has little in the way of creature comforts or high tech gadgetry.

What creature comforts do you think the leaf is missing?

It matches most other lines of car at similar prices in terms of features. The mid-level version (which is less than 3k ask over the base) has a nice XM stereo with on-steering-wheel controls, navigation, heated seats, heated mirrors, etc. It's nothing "fancy," but it's certainly not missing hightech gadgetry. The base model is only missing built-in navigation and has cheaper wheels.
http://www.nissanusa.com/elect...

Its safety rating is Good, (code word for mediocre)

Perhaps. "Good" at IIHS is their top rating. It's only 4 out of at Safecar.gov USnews gave it a 9, which is in the middle of other Hybrid/Electric cars.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratin...
http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl...
http://usnews.rankingsandrevie...

Its a pretty bare bones car, sold at a loss.

As mentioned, it is not any more bare than any other car in this price range.

Its performance is abysmal

You haven't driven one, or you're only interested in high-speed driving. Yes, the Leaf tops out at 93mph (that's a 10,000rpm artificial limit on the motor), but it's VERY VERY quick in city situations, and certainly doesn't suffer getting on the freeway either. You've got full torque from a stop. You never worry about merging or having to beat someone out to change lanes. It's not a giant beast, but it's by not means a car with "abysmal performance."

Check out the DSRC (Dedicated Short Range Communications) standard. Also labeled WAVE (Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments) and 802.11p with IEEE 1609. Basically a vehicle status message is transmitted multiple times a second and vehicles within a few hundred meters can receive these transmissions and act on that info. So when someone tries to turn left in front of a motorcycle that is transmitting it's vehicle status (location, velocity, size) the corresponding receiver on the vehicle will compute the collision course and put out a big warning to the vehicle. Once the system gets reliable and secure enough perhaps the vehicle will even do things like put on the brakes or prevent someone from running a deep red light.

The National Highway Transportation Administration is expected to decide any day now if it will be required in vehicles starting in a few years. Also systems are starting to crop up that are small, perhaps even integrated directly into smartphones someday.

http://www.safercar.gov/ConnectedVehicles/index.html

Cars today are much better than they were in 1990 when they developed this system.

3-star ratings weren't uncommon back then.

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/1990-2010+Vehicles/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=3098

There are still some cars that get 4-stars, but this particular model (RAV4) got several 4-star ratings, prompting newspaper articles about "failing" safety tests. People clearly expect perfect security and safety all the time at all costs. (See: Patriot Act)

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/2011-Newer+Vehicles/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=8143

Cars today are much better than they were in 1990 when they developed this system.

3-star ratings weren't uncommon back then.

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/1990-2010+Vehicles/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=3098

There are still some cars that get 4-stars, but this particular model (RAV4) got several 4-star ratings, prompting newspaper articles about "failing" safety tests. People clearly expect perfect security and safety all the time at all costs. (See: Patriot Act)

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/2011-Newer+Vehicles/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=8143

They already did this only ~3 years ago.

http://www.safercar.gov/Safety+Ratings

The Model S is just that good :)

Why can't I turn it off?

I can decide to turn off my airbag.

I can't (legally). Not unless I get a written waver from NHTSA. Looking at the application [pdf], you can see that you can't turn it off on a whim. Maybe you live in a country that doesn't try to over protect, but the example is untrue in a large part of the world.

2009 BMW 5 Series 4-DR w/SAB - 3 stars in frontal driver rating.

I'm sure if you check out http://www.safercar.gov/ you'll find plenty more that don't get five stars.

Name me one that doesn't have a 5-star crash rating?

Well, here's one.

Also keep in mind that when you see car ads saying "5-star saftey rating", the fine print typically says that it was for only one or two of the half-dozen test the NHSTA does. If you want a car that gets 5 stars across the board, that's not as common as cars which get a single 5-star rating.

NHSTA has one set of standards that all makers must conform to. The IIHS is NOT a government entity and is much harsher on vehicles.

http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/menuitem.94b0130be143aeb342252f0835a67789/?vgnextoid=68adf2905bf54110VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD
4/4/5/4 stars in US government crash tests.

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=328
Good rating in the front offset crash test by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS), which has harsher crash tests than the US government. Poor in the IIHS side midsize SUV crash test when tested without side curtain airbags (but every small car gets a Poor rating in that test when side curtain airbags are absent).

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?cls=2&sort=name&sz=2
Slightly better than average medical losses and liability coverage for small cars in the US from model year 2004-2006.

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx
Considering the fact that the Focus got an update for model year 2008 and that between the Focus' 2000 introduction and now Ford has introduced 9 vehicles with the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety "Best Safety Pick" rating (15 if you count platform sharing and rebadges), it's possible the new Focus fares even better.

Do you have any facts to justify your assertion that's a deathtrap, other than the fact that smaller vehicles are inherently less safe due to the laws of Physics?

Here are some pictures of the focus fusion as it occurs. There is even a 2-second video of some tests.

(It would a lot funnier without this:)

Here are some pictures of the focus fusion as it occurs. There is even a 2-second video of some tests.

(It would a lot funnier without this:)

Here are some pictures of the focus fusion as it occurs. There is even a 2-second video of some tests.

(It would a lot funnier without this:)

Here are some pictures of the focus fusion as it occurs. There is even a 2-second video of some tests.

(It would a lot funnier without this:)

You are making an uneducated decision on safety but you do not actually know the numbers. More people die from self inflicted crashes then being hit by a vehicle of larger mass.

Here is a statistic from the PA DMV:
2001 Pennsylvania rollover accident statistics

* 7.8% of light truck crashes involved rollover accidents. 5.3% of passenger car accidents involved rollovers
* In rollover crashes, 39.3% of light truck rollovers involved occupant death compared to 17.3% of passenger cars.

Another clip from a random Google search:
The greatest risk of rollover occurs in SUVs. Unlike cars, which tend to slide sideways when they go out of control , SUVs are more likely to flip over because they have a higher center of gravity , Based on studies conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Association (NHTSA), 79 percent of fatalities in a single-SUV crash involve a rollover compared to only 45 percent for passenger vehicles. The estimated risk of rollover in an SUV is 30 percent compared to only 16 percent risk of rollover in a passenger vehicle. Despite these statistics, one in every four new vehicles sold in America today is a Sport Utility Vehicle (SUV).

Or this link:
http://www.safercar.gov/Rollover/pages/RatSysVComp are.htm

Your comfort with the SUV is FUD. Yes, against a smaller car, you MAY fair better then the other driver but the chances of you being at a complete stop and being broadsided by a smaller car is very slim compared to the "typical accident" which more often then not involves only one vehicle or more then one vehicle and both traveling at speed where the vehicle dynamics and weight distribution plays the major factor. This isnt the 60's, the big larger car is not the winner.