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Some counterpoints:

1/ Consumables based on collected items exist in every game. This is not new, and WoW does this quite well. [OT: I thought AC motes were used for the weapons? Its been awhile...]

2/ See Shadowbane. See 5am raids, see 'zerg'. See server wide alliances. L2 also had something like this castle thing, I haven't heard much about it, so there is no comment on it. DAoC was the first to implement something like this with thier Artifacts: 3 static world objects that grant 1 of 3 realms various bonuses.

3/ Uhh, lag. Also, see "dialup users". Positioning doesnt work when the server and client have to sync up for positioning and time sensitive distance checks.

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Since it's now under new management, is it going to remain free? I looked at the Shadowbane web site, and it says there's a free trial, but nothing about a completely free game.

Ubisoft, publisher of the Wolfpack Studios-developed MMORPG Shadowbane, has announced, via the site's official news page, that the title is now available to play for free without subscription fees

According to http://www.shadowbane.com/, Shadowbane supports both Mac and PC. I'm going to have to check this out. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a Linux version.

If MMORPGS were all about the gameplay then a rather small one known as Shadowbane wouldn't have died off so quietly (or at all). Let me explain In Shadowbane, UbiSoft paid a guy who goes by Meridian to write lore for them. They wanted an MMO because they felt that it would make a ton of money. So he did, and they came out with the classic swords, magics, barbarians and priests etc. that a lot of games do. But he also came out with a story mostly his own, and several different religions. So this sounds like the kind of world where developers get to do whatever they want, and that's the point of this article -- this should happen more. right? Well these guys took it a step further, and didn't fill in the lore. They gave outlines like what we know of medieval Europe - sure there were some battles that we know about, and we know the major ideas, but when it comes down to it, the details are created by the people at Renaissance Fairs. Similarly, Shadowbane was a server with a blank landscape. You go out with a guild or by yourself, and you level up etc. and you build a city. You wage wars. You and your guild control territory. The only NPCs are the ones in towns that are equipment-bots and trainers for people who're starting. So there you go - fully functional fantasy warfare (INCLUDING siege) and the players are the ones who move the story along. On a personal comment, i'd say its as successful for the single person to small, say 3 person group as for the 50 man guild. http://chronicle.ubi.com/, http://www.shadowbane.com/us/WhatIsShadowbane.php ... The gameplay was (is?? there's a 10 day trial) really buggy, but perhaps it's better. but there you go - gameplay =/= name recognition

I think you are looking for something like Shadowbane, but I don't think you really want what you think you are looking for.

What you describe is a system where you personally have the ability the change the face of the world, but the implication of this is that all players have the ability to change the world - including people with way more time on their hands than you, and people with far more miscievous intent than you. I imagine such a game would devlove into a wasteland ruled over by roving gangs, where the majority of fun-minded plpayers are driven off by constant harassment. Perhaps players could eventually organize and establish warring city-states, but this type of activity is probably not what the vast majority of fun-minded casual players are interested in.

Ah. . . yes, thank you. I haven't heard "Corp Por" sense I stopped playing Ultima Online a long time ago. Thank you for bring back my vision of playing for hours on end, running around naked with my deadly poisoned noobie katana (no one ever saw that one coming) trying to find the bastards who PKed me, just so I can get killed again when I found them. Again, thank you for reminding me of those numerous hours of my life wasted on a virtual world. Oh well, I left Ultima when they split it into the two worlds (pk, and no pk) Hearing those words just makes me want to go back. Mabye when Ultima Online 2 comes out. Untill then, at least I have Shadowbane to keep me company now

Shadowbane

Master of Orion 3, since 2001... no, Nov 2002, December 4th... Maybe January?

Shadowbane, a MMORPG without all that pesky RPG stuff

SimCity 4, delayed 'till January. "It's in 3D, trust us", except you can't swivel the camera

Fortunately this game looks really boring. Without player vs player encounters I can't see why anyone would want to invest sums of money to make their character any better.

If you're interested in an almost fully functional online world where PvP and Guild vs Guild competition is the main objective then check out Shadowbane where you can literally change the world.

Open beta will occur in the new year.

Shadowbane on the otherhand includes FULL pvp (not like the damp squib that is DAOC), dynamic city building and seiging by player formed guilds in a full fantasy setting. Added to the usual mmorpg features this game is the next big thing.

Check it here:
Shaowbane

Also out in February next year, so the competiton will be fierce.

Lets face it. If all Slashdot has to say about the world (and seriously!!! Iraq!!!!! Saddamm!!! the EU, Russia!!!) is an editorial about a game where you have to press a button to beat a drumb, then OMG kill me now!!! Unless you have something important to say then go check out Shadowbane Shadowbane Its as much fun as real life... except you can keep your pants on if you like.

The problem, of course, is that it's impossible in a flexible game environment to forsee the potential impact of each and every item put in the game... which is normally a good thing! You can produce patches which resolve these sorts of issues, but then the game developer has to expend energy and resources continually tweaking what is essentially a "finished" product. And in products which are never "finished" (like MMORPGs), these sorts of "fixes" tend to be frowned upon by players as "nerfs." The developer is accused of forcing players to conform to a narrow vision of gameplay... which they may or may not be doing.

The challenge lies in creating a flexible environment in which the player can do a lot of stuff, things the developer never thought of, while maintaining the "integrity" of the game. It only takes one unbeatable uber-tactic that the developer didn't foresee to ruin the game.

I don't know if they'll ever succeed, but I hope they keep trying.

To some extent, some of the problems you have with games like everquest comes when you have people running around looting stuff from other people, without an easy place of safety at hand.

I wonder what would happen if social stations were handed out more at random instead of having to come up just through the levels. The equivalent of "You are 13 years old, and have reached Manhood. You are a member of the Royal House of Saud, one of 5,000 plus people running the Kingdom." In this case, you are rich, but you have political responsibilities as well. Don't mess up!

It sounds like you're sort of describing Shadowbane, a game which will attempt to combine the traditional MMORPG with a heavy dose of various strategic and social elements. Players create "guilds", cities, kingdoms and empires and are responsible for the governance of those entities. If you insult an influential guild member, he may tell his NPC guards (and his PC guildmates too, of course) he doesn't like you, and your plans of opening up an inn or forge in that town will be shot to hell, and you may not even be able to "adventure" any more in that geographical region, because you don't have access to the shops or trainers you need to sustain your activities. Your options are to go someplace beyond that guild's influence, or perhaps join a rival guild with the ultimate goal of supplanting them.

At least, that's the idea. In many ways, Shadowbane strives to achieve environmental flexibility akin to that described in the keynote, but with social/political dynamics, instead of using gameplay hooks and physics engines. While leaving the system of checks and balances in the hands of the playerbase may be the most fun and potentially interesting way of doing it, it could result in the social equivalent of "mine stepping" that will unbalance and ruin large portions of the system.

I personally am happy to see this trend towards more flexible game models. While some games do a fair job of keeping me amused, the best games often simply provide fertile ground on which I can amuse myself. Most games have uninspiring plots, and static gameplay that involves predetermined goals that can be achieved in only a predetetermined number of ways (ways predetermined by the game developer) and get old pretty fast. Some games can get a lot of mileage out of intergrating a multiplayer aspect, but combining a flexible game engine with a multiplayer element would be like the Holy Grail of gaming, at least in my mind.

In EverQuest, in which money is created without a real way to spend it (for higher level characters), the platinum's value is probably going to keep falling until the game shuts down.

Another MMORPG (damn, these things are getting too long), Shadowbane, apparently sees the light when it comes to maintaining an economy.

In short, Shadowbane is visually similar to EQ, except the focus is not on killing monsters, but on forming guilds, creating a guild town, building it up to a castle, and controlling territory. They goal is to encourage real politics between the player Nations, which, of course, will result in Guild vs. Guild combat.

If the game survives rampant PvPing, or forming one UberGuild(tm), it should be really interesting to see how different nations manage themselves, form government, and set rules for their land. Of course, encouraging trade is a good way to make lots of cash if you run a city, and a good way to do that is to keep random PvPers out of your land (by killing them, of course).

I don't have the slightest damned idea if it'll work, but it looks interesting enough that I'll try it out. The Politics, full scale wars between guilds/nations, and the economic system that actually appears to have some thought behind it are good signs.

In EverQuest, in which money is created without a real way to spend it (for higher level characters), the platinum's value is probably going to keep falling until the game shuts down.

Another MMORPG (damn, these things are getting too long), Shadowbane, apparently sees the light when it comes to maintaining an economy.

In short, Shadowbane is visually similar to EQ, except the focus is not on killing monsters, but on forming guilds, creating a guild town, building it up to a castle, and controlling territory. They goal is to encourage real politics between the player Nations, which, of course, will result in Guild vs. Guild combat.

If the game survives rampant PvPing, or forming one UberGuild(tm), it should be really interesting to see how different nations manage themselves, form government, and set rules for their land. Of course, encouraging trade is a good way to make lots of cash if you run a city, and a good way to do that is to keep random PvPers out of your land (by killing them, of course).

I don't have the slightest damned idea if it'll work, but it looks interesting enough that I'll try it out. The Politics, full scale wars between guilds/nations, and the economic system that actually appears to have some thought behind it are good signs.

some games are trying harder than others to simulate economic systems.

Check out Shadowbane's economics.


maybe /. is auctioning off oour sigs on eBay as we speak!