Domain: soundstage.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to soundstage.com.
Comments · 23
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Re:Why Analogue? Stranded investment.
I can credibly claim to be in the "golden ear" crowd as a former high-end audio reviewer. You need functional ears, but that's more about training than anything else. The better reviewers have spent years of their life carefully listening to different equipment and music, trying to become good at hearing small differences.
There are a few small tricks people usually fall for that good listeners try to get a handle on:
- Louder is better. This one is very hard to isolate out; if you're not using tools like a voltmeter sometimes to match levels, you're being fooled by it.
- More compressed is better.
- Boosted bass and treble is better.
- Familiar is better.
The last one is the most insidious, and I have an anecdote on how deep that goes. When 24/96K digital was first being released for studio use, I sat through a single-blind demo room at an AES show. They played an excellent analog master jazz recording, a version sampled at 24/96, and a version at 16/44.1 CD resolution downsampled via their equipment. I correctly graded the three from better to worse, seemed pretty obvious to me even though the high res digital was very close to the original.
As the presenter worked the room asking people which of his samples A, B, and C were, it was obvious mine was not the majority opinion. There were a few vocal people expressing their opinion that got things completely backwards. They thought the CD quality version was the "best", and therefore it had to be the original master. As this was an AES show, these were people who worked with audio all day, and their preference didn't match reality as I heard it at all.
Listening to their (incorrect) arguments for why they made their decisions, I realized they liked CD quality and its limitations. There was some compression to the CD version and a bit of a fuzzy/harsh roll off at the top end. But it was what they were used to. They thought recordings were supposed to sound that way, because most recordings they listened to did. You can see "familiar is better" in every generation of listener. People who grew up on vinyl like surface noise, early CD listeners are used to terrible aliasing filters, and people who grew up with low rate MP3s like their artifacts. And on the studio side, there are people who like the way analog tape sounds. To be fair, that was better than any digital available until very recently. Recent remasters of old analog recordings are still digging out details you couldn't hear in the earlier digital transfers. I think current generation 192/24 bit digital equipment is more than good enough to replace analog tape though; we passed that point a few years ago.
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Re:Obligatory audiophile post
It's designed for audiophiles, what did you expect? Audiophiles are the kind of people who are willing to pay premium cash for a light pen (you know, for coloring the CD's....). Or how about these cables? After all, it produces sound that is "Notably relaxed and highly detailed" (just like the stuff I defecated yesterday) for only $9000 for eight foot pair of speaker-cables! And when you REALLY want that "something extra" to your sound-quality, here's a wooden knob for just $485.
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Sorry to reply again but this really made me laugh
Regarding fancy kettle leads:
"ESP has an interesting approach to break-in of its products, proclaiming that not only do its power cords break in, but so do the components with which they are used. "The power supply of the component (mostly the capacitors) that you attach the cord to undergoes additional break-in due to the enhanced dynamic capabilities afforded by The Essence Reference." Furthermore, according to Michael Griffin, switching equipment off causes capacitors to slowly return to their pre-The Essence Reference state"
You can't write comedy like that if you try...
Full text here -
Re:The decline of ethics?????
There are many possible "post-humous" excuses, but the G.S. techs did not have the explicit(no pun intended) duty to investigate their clients for proof of pedophilia. AFAIK in the States it's "innocent until proven guilty". Even cops have to get search warrants, unless you're trying to cross the border, in which case it's a whole different story.
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Re:Doesn't matter
And a tuned power cable for $500.
You know that price is a sure indicator of quality.
You're paying $500 for a power cable? What kind of cheap junk is that!
The only thing almost good enough for MY ears is the
JPS Labs Kaptovator Power Cord for $1500. -
Re:Audiophiles really are the ultimate suckers
Like any "hobby" things can get out of control - however I do agree 100% that audiophiles / audio equipment / search for the "perfect sound" (or hearing the unhearable) is a ripe area for people to fool themselves into a unquenchable quest.
In the '40s thru the '60s building a decent stereo system took some knowledge, dollars, and desire. From the '70s on the development of the IC (integrated circuit) for both analog and the digital components brought more than decent sound to the masses. From the '90s on the addition of digital circuits/control for both filtering and sound enhancement / 3D effects has taken audiio to a new level --- again for the masses. So now for a modest amount of money $500 - $1000 you can buy an amazing system. And certainly a properly built PC can be the heart of an amazing sound system.
That is unless you are affected by Audiophile-collectus - also known as: "hearing the unhearable" / "mine cost more than yours" / "specification-itus". A relative of mine ( CIO of a large firm) has probably dropped about $50K on his system - the true over the top moment was when he bought his Watt-Puppy speakers (watt puppy price has gone up $4000 to $27990 USD per pair. The WATT/Puppy used to be a pricing bellwether under $20000, but it's now pushing $30000) http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/wilson_wp8/
They do sound good - but I can't give you a real review since he won't let play any ZZ Top on them at full volume ... -
Re:Audiophile tastes aren't exactly a good metric.
I wasn't saying ANYTHING about China or the quality of their products, you asshat.
I was critiquing the ability of the audiophool crowd to distinguish worthwhile products from technobabble, marketing scams, and flat-out bullshit. And how an endorsement by said group says absolutely NOTHING about the technical merits of a product. Here are only a few examples of the utter BULLSHIT that the audiophools buy into:
A wooden volume control KNOB for $500 (need 2 for stereo, BTW) that promises buyers that "The sound becomes much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution. Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved.":
http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/mercha nt.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C
Special "secret mojo" paint to apply to the D/A chip inside your CD player to create the mystical "tube sound":
http://www.altmann.haan.de/tubeolator/
A $1500 POWER CABLE that is described like a glass of fine wine. "The Clairvoyant's signature is engaging, energetic, and bristling with light and microdynamic life"; "lifelike timing and pace" coupled with "clarity, definition, lithe touch, and articulation throughout the lower registers."
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audiomagic_clai rvoyant.htm
The previously mentioned bottle of magic pebbles to increase listening pleasure:
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm -
Re:It's sticky tape now, huh?
Monster Cable? Feh. Their power cords are only 100 bucks.
This is the ticket: the US$1500 power cable.
Whoops, old review. The new improved model of that cord goes for US$2200.
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Re:Some more notes about speaker efficiency
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Re:That's not a subwoofer....This review is most amusing
If you can get past the cost, an equally imposing roadblock awaits you (or a reviewer). The physical size of the XS is a big problem, not from an aesthetic perspective, but as a logistics equation. Let me explain. The XS is over eight feet tall and weighs over 700 pounds plus another hundred or so for the crate. The shipping company hired to deliver the XS to my home left a message on my answering machine that stated "you need to call our office as we need to discuss your receiving capabilities." At this point I began to realize that this was not just another component that I could unbox with a couple of buddies and then listen to. I had to plan.
Planning
The first question was where I could place the sub so that it would be out of the way (answer: nowhere) and sound good (you don't just play with its location). I had already moved the audio system out of my dedicated listening room and into the main living room of my house because of the impossibility of the former space to handle both the Wilson X-1s and the XS. Once a location was chosen from my available choices of one, I began planning for the XS's arrival. The sub would be placed along the side wall, but close to the back wall, of my new listening room. It would be approximately the same distance from the listening position as the X-1s, about 12 feet. Furniture was rearranged, and my very patient, loving wife helped assemble the new room for optimum equipment placement.
The day the XS arrived I was in a great mood as the sun was shining and a long weekend was ahead for tweaking the sub and listening to music. The shipping company assured me that they would have it in my house and in place without much ado. "We do this all the time," they said. Well, suffice it to say that after about two hours and a broken piano dolly later, the shipping-company folks left soundly defeated. The XS was not to be installed that weekend. After regrouping and developing a new plan that included professional piano movers, another attempt was made. It still took about two hours to go from my garage to the living room, but eventually it was in place. As I stared at the XS standing there, I curiously noted how small the X-1s seemed. "Kind of like minimonitors," I muttered. My wife cried. I could not help but curse David Wilson for creating such a product.
Still, if you want to listen to sound below 20 Hz, the necessary speakers are likely to be large and unwieldy. -
Re:CablesPure silver cables are at the "cost conscious" end of the market.
e.g from
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audiomagic_clai rvoyant.htm
Jerry Ramsey of Audio Magic has been offering sound cable values at a variety of price points for years. His line includes a pure silver power cord priced at $69, confirming that he is as interested in offering cost-conscious products as he is those that push the envelope of power-line performance.
e.g.
Salesman: "Are you rich err serious enough to push the envelope for $1500, or will you be forced to settle for a cost conscious pure silver cable for $69?. Ah I see you are one of our serious customers"
It's sad people fall for this stuff really. -
Re:Cables
Nooo, you need MONSTER CABLES for the best quality!Pfft. Monster Cables are useless--useless, I say--if you don't have a US$1500 power cord:
Tweak the power supply all you want, but it's pointless without one of those.JPS Labs Kaptovator Power Cord
Audio Magic Clairvoyant Power Cord -
Re:Cables
Nooo, you need MONSTER CABLES for the best quality!Pfft. Monster Cables are useless--useless, I say--if you don't have a US$1500 power cord:
Tweak the power supply all you want, but it's pointless without one of those.JPS Labs Kaptovator Power Cord
Audio Magic Clairvoyant Power Cord -
Re:Monster Cables and other Audiophile rubbish
There is a huge industry around selling useless crap to people.My absolute favorite example of this is the US$1500 Audio Magic Clairvoyant Power Cord. I thought this was an April Fool's column until I looked at the date.
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Re:You mean DIGITAL zoom
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Re:Audiophile opinion
read the descriptions of a few of those turntables to realise these guys are as wacked out as alien abducteesYou think that's insane? Take a look at this review of a freekin power cable
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It's all about perception
Sound without perception is just waves in the air. If a person drops $10K on speaker wires, the music will very likely sound better to him, even if there is no measurable difference in the signal reaching the speakers. Just because it's called the placebo effect doesn't mean that the results, which is the betterment of perceived sound waves, aren't real.
If I have a headache, and someone sells me a sugar pill but I believe it is a powerful pain reliever, my headache is more likely to go away and I will be pleased as a result. Similarly, if someone sells me $10K speaker wires and I believe they have a powerful effect on my stereo system, I am likely to perceive the effect and may even think the improvement is worth $10K. The trick is making me believe it, and that is where all the "oxygen free" and other techy sounding things come into play.
At least, this is what I like to think is happening. It is the only explanation I can come up with for this. If spending $300 on a box with a single LED allows a person to more fully enjoy his sound system, is there anything wrong with selling it to him? If you hear the difference it may be worth it to you.
I've noticed that Audiophiles don't like it when I call them ignorant saps however.
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Re:I love audiophiles...I own the Etymotic ear buds and use them with my 30 GB iPod. I originally bought them to use with the Han Go 20 GB MP3 player (still superior in some ways to the iPod but far clunkier). In short, they are an awesome product. They sound much, much better than conventional ear buds. They are also more comfortable once you get used to them. You can even get custom ear molds made as Etymotic is a hearing aid manufacturer.
I've had mine for about 3 years now. That means I've spent about a quarter a day to for more pleasure. Money well spent.
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Most expensive loudspeakers?
A few posts here complain about the $8000 each price of the speakers. That isn't even close to being the most expensive available. Wilson Audio used to sell a set of speakers that cost $125,000 a pair. I don't see it on their web page anymore, but I did see the X-1 which cost $75,900 per pair according to this review. Thing is, the review was almost 4 years ago, they probably cost more by now.
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Re:Linn makes good stuff
Well - not a $30 sound card - but you could get pretty good results with a $600 sound card and $1500 external DAC. But did you actually read the website? I'm assuming a significant part of the $20K is the fact that it's touch screen controlled and has the ability to serve up many different streams at once (5 i think) in addition to offering superb quality.
Don't forget - just because it's digital doesn't mean it's perfect. Things such as jitter dramatically affect the sound quality - and the only way to get rid of that is with a really really good source ($$$$$) and good cables ($$$$$) or by running the stream through a digital anti-jitter filter such as Genesis Digital Lens which only costs around $1,800.
You also have to realize this product is aimed at people that don't blink at paying $20,000 for just a cd player, like the Linn sondek 12 cd player -
Vinyl - the big analog lie
The big lie is that since vinyl is an 'analog' medium, the sound waves direct from the recording are going to be pressed on the record. NOT! It would sound like drek if it was, as the old records did. In almost all cases VINYL IS DIGITALLY MASTERED BEFORE PRESSING! This lets sound engineers do all the tweaking we've come to expect, it is not a simple loss of quality. So any 'analog' benefit is lost before the pressing. You do though get the wonderful analog degradation as micro-scratches and dust accumulate on your record. Being analog, the grooves on your records are the actual shape of the sound waves, but since your records were digitally mastered before pressing, they're not smooth analog curves, they're slightly boxy representing the sampling.
If you like vinyl, using a record preservative like LAST record preservative (review here) can extend the life of your records dramatically. But it can certainly never make them sound better than they did when they were digitally mastered. If you REALLY don't want to damage your record, there are even laser turntables (here) that just scan the grooves. Now I just need one of those in my car :)
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Instant upgrade for bumpy electrons!For the last 10 or so years, anyone has been able to drop in a $300 box to condition the electrons in their stereo system so that they don't bump into each other. I remember reading about the Tice TPT clock in an audiophile magazine... Here's a review of one similar device: http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/quantum_life_s
y mphony.htmI particularly like how it takes a full 15 minutes before being 100% effective - them electrons must not move at the speed of light after all.
Truthfully, I've always wanted to market a device in a dark matte box with a single button and an LED that takes about 10 seconds to come to full brightness. It needs to weigh about 30 pounds. It will make your soundstage wider and your highs clearer. The magic, of course, is in the specially treated LED. I can sell you one for $10,000 due to the rigorous nature of conditioning the LED with my extra-harmonic stabalizer. Have I finally found my market?
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so is it digital or analog?
It's read with a laser, so it must go through digital processing. This would seem to undermine the goal of listening to vinyl - that is, to avoid the "noise" that some audiophiles feel is added through digital processing. Seems like not much more than an expensive toy (obviously) to show your friends rather than a realistic audiophile piece.
I bet a properly tuned Rega Planar would sound better.