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Sticky Tape Defeats Sony DRM Copy Protection

cybrpnk2 writes "As reported by InformationWeek, Sony BMG Music's controversial copy-protection scheme can be defeated with a small piece of tape. According to thinktank Gartner analysts Martin Reynolds and Mike McGuire, Sony's XCP technology is stymied by sticking a fingernail-size piece of opaque tape on the outer edge of the CD. 'After more than five years of trying, the recording industry has not yet demonstrated a workable DRM scheme for music CDs. Gartner believes that it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.'"

464 comments

  1. Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by CyricZ · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does using tape in such a fashion violate the terms of the DMCA? If so, could the tape manufacturers be held responsible for making a product that potentially aides in piracy?

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by curteck · · Score: 5, Funny

      As long as you don't hold down the shift key while you're doing it, I think you're ok.

    2. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So are we going to get non-sticky tape or non-opaque tape from now on? Or maybe tape with a brain rootkit that does not allow you to stick it on shiny things? (it could just be CD's, but just in case).

    3. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by plover · · Score: 4, Funny
      No, applying the tape doesn't violate the DMCA.

      Telling us that we can use tape to defeat the DRM violates the DMCA. Gartner should be hearing the arrival of the black helicopters within the hour.

      --
      John
    4. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by omeomi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sadly enough, that's actually true, isn't it? Even this /. story violates the DMCA...

    5. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by spacefight · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought the point about the black helicopters was, that they're able to move without making any noise at all...

    6. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by saskboy · · Score: 1

      3M =
      Duck[tape]ing the law!

      Masking[tape] the truth!

      An evil corporation that you can see right through [their Scotch tape]!

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    7. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by omeomi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Apparently the USCO has some older, less silent, black helicopters...

    8. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Aralor · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wow, Dora the Explorer had it right all along! She's always using sticky tape for something! (I know this because my two-year old daughter insists on watching it everyday.) So, could Backpack be implicated in this, too, since he's the one carrying the sticky tape for Dora in the first place?

    9. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 2, Informative

      3M makes DUCT tape not DUCK tape. DUCK tape is made by http://www.duckproducts.com/ in response to so many people mispronouncing the name of a product. The tape was to close gaps in DUCTS not DUCKS.

    10. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by ToasterofDOOM · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually the tape in question was originally invente4d by the military during World War II and called duck tape as water 'rolled off' of it like a ducks back. It was later rechristened as duct tape after the war when it proved valuable for duct repairs as well, so both names are right.

      --
      I am Spartacus
    11. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by ProZachar · · Score: 1

      Actually I hope somebody gets charged under the DMCA for publishing this. Maybe then people will pick up on just how absurd the law is.

    12. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by ciellarg · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nahh, tape is obviously analog..

    13. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Mozk · · Score: 1

      I think his point was that 3M produces a brand called Duct Tape, and Duck produces a brand called Duck Tape. His parent was implying that 3M made "duck tape". Although then the joke doesn't work, and it's just a joke anyway.

      --
      No existe.
    14. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by circusboy · · Score: 3, Informative

      regrettably a recent study has shown that the one thing that 'duct' tape is really not good for, is repairing ducts... (heating ducts anyway, the glue melts)

      It's apparently good for warts though

      --
      -- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
    15. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Diamon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually it was invented by Johnson & Johnson (http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/duct tape.htm). The military doesn't invent anything, they contract the private sector to develop things for them.

    16. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by eosp · · Score: 1

      No, it's tertiary/trinary/whatever. Tape is not on, tape is on, and tape has been removed, leaving sticky residue all over.

    17. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by nathanh · · Score: 2, Informative
      3M makes DUCT tape not DUCK tape. DUCK tape is made by http://www.duckproducts.com/ in response to so many people mispronouncing the name of a product. The tape was to close gaps in DUCTS not DUCKS.

      The tape was created to seal ammunition containers watertight. It was originally called Duck Tape.

      It was originally developed during World War II in 1942 under the name "Duck Tape" as a waterproof sealing tape for ammunition casings. Permacel, then a division of Johnson & Johnson, used a rubber-based adhesive to help the tape resist water and a fabric backing to facilitate ripping. Because of these properties, it was also used to quickly repair military equipment, including jeeps, guns, and aircraft. Wikipedia

      You really should have checked Wikipedia before making such an empathic statement.

    18. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You really should have checked Wikipedia before making such an empathic statement."

      You really should have checked Dictionary.com before using "empathic" when you meant "emphatic". ;) (Just teasin ya)

    19. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      talking about the DMCA violates the DMCA...

    20. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, but I read that as something having to do with SCO, before realizing that it meant US Copyright Office. :)

    21. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is Microsoft violating the DMCA by allowing the shift key to subvert a legitimate copyright protection scheme?

    22. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by the way.. 'duct' or 'duck' tape doesn't actually work on ducting. at all.

    23. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by HermanAB · · Score: 2, Informative

      It does work on cold ducts and you get a product called Real Duct Tape, that works on hot air ducts.

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
    24. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Of course they do. You think their budget allows them to get the top of the line models?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    25. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being as that is bypassing the copy protection, and DMCA says you can't bypass it... yes it does violate the DMCA. Just like the shift key thing does.

    26. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by nacturation · · Score: 1

      You really should have checked Wikipedia before making such an empathic statement.

      I'm sure that statement had a lot of empathy. Pot, kettle, and all that shit.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    27. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by nathanh · · Score: 1
      I'm sure that statement had a lot of empathy. Pot, kettle, and all that shit.

      You're a bit late - somebody already spotted that mistake and commented on it - but I'm interested in knowing why you think that's a "Pot Kettle Black" situation. I didn't pass judgement on anybody's spelling. I corrected a factual error in that they claimed that Duck Tape was not the original name. If they'd made a spelling error and I'd said "you should have checked dictionary.com before making such an empathic statement" then you'd have a point. If Wikipedia actually said that Duct Tape was the original name then you'd have a point. But neither of those situations are true.

      Were you just really eager to say "Pot, kettle, and all that shit" and couldn't wait for the right moment?

    28. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " regrettably a recent study has shown that the one thing that 'duct' tape is really not good for, is repairing ducts"

      Didn't Junkyard Wars determine that it isn't all that waterproof either?
      I seem to remember a team using it to patch holes in their boat, and they sank anyway.

    29. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by nacturation · · Score: 1

      I'm interested in knowing why you think that's a "Pot Kettle Black" situation. I didn't pass judgement on anybody's spelling.

      No, but you did say "you should have checked..." and then go on to correct someone while making a mistake yourself. Of course, I assume it was a simple typo and that you did understand the difference between emphatic and empathic so checking wasn't really required.

      Were you just really eager to say "Pot, kettle, and all that shit" and couldn't wait for the right moment?

      Hey, it was late and I couldn't think of anything less lame to say. I'll do better next time.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    30. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by rooster9 · · Score: 0

      That was great!

    31. Re:Does this violate the terms of the DMCA? by rooster9 · · Score: 0

      Mostly true. But not always. They just don't submit their *special* idears for copyright, etc.

  2. Damn yo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    This would be a good place to say something insightful, but the headline has me dumbfounded.

  3. And they always said by Zegnar · · Score: 5, Funny

    And they always said that home taping would kill the music industry...

    1. Re:And they always said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aw crap you beat me to it!!

      Bravo.

    2. Re:And they always said by Net_Wakker · · Score: 1

      That must be the funniest post in ages.

    3. Re:And they always said by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      Oh, man, you almost made me snort my Cola...

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
  4. You're right! by Junky191 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm off to short 1000 shares of 3M.

  5. In other news... by GweeDo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sony/BMG sued 3M Corporation today for their new technology called "tape" to circumvent their copy protection and encryption schemes. They will be tried under the DMCA, news at at 11!

    1. Re:In other news... by Mayhem178 · · Score: 1

      And in OTHER news...

      Microsoft filed suit today against 3M Corporation, claiming that their new technology "tape" violates a patent that Microsoft filed back in 1995. They then, in turn, filed a parallel suit against Sony/BMG for willingly and knowingly encouraging 3M Corporation to violate their "tape" patent by promoting the use of their new "tape" technology in circumventing Sony/BMG's own copy protection and encryption schemes.

      --

      "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles

    2. Re:In other news... by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      Sony/BMG sued 3M Corporation today for their new technology called "tape" to circumvent their copy protection and encryption schemes. They will be tried under the DMCA, news at at 11!

      They could also sue Stanley, because a hammer can do the same thing.

    3. Re:In other news... by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sony/BMG sued 3M Corporation today for their new technology called "tape" to circumvent their copy protection and encryption schemes. They will be tried under the DMCA, news at at 11!

      In other news, Sony/BMG sues Microsoft for allowing the "autorun" feature to be turned off. When the autorun feature is turned off, Sony's DRM doesn't install properly and this can be used to circumvent it, the music giant said in a statement.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    4. Re:In other news... by Mr2cents · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now *that* is a sticky situation...

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    5. Re:In other news... by kn0tw0rk · · Score: 1
      with further investigation, this is bound to continue

      not quite what I had in mind when I wanted to stick it to Sony

      --
      See my art -> http://herbevore.deviantart.com
    6. Re:In other news... by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....In other news, Sony/BMG sues Microsoft for allowing the "autorun" feature to be turned off.....

      They are also suing Apple and Linux because they don't provide an "autorun" feature, thereby cirumventing their DRM.

      I wonder how much of this kind of thing it will still take before the likes of Sony will change their business model to take advantage of the modern digital age, rather than fighting the unstoppable windmill of technological progress.

      --
      All theory is gray
    7. Re:In other news... by djdanlib · · Score: 1

      As long as the courts adhere to the proper practices, we should be alright. Think there will be a transcription of the tapes made at the trial?

    8. Re:In other news... by danheretic · · Score: 1
      Now *that* is a sticky situation...
      Clearly.
  6. Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can we talk about Apple or Google instead 'cause I'm feeling depressed.

    1. Re:Please! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      Now you know how I feel when the idiotic ::Cue::Cat stories were superceded by idiotic SCO stories!

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  7. foot by towsonu2003 · · Score: 2, Funny

    where is the foot icon above the sony icon?

    1. Re:foot by JFitzsimmons · · Score: 1

      Could someone please explain this joke to me? =/

      --
      Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Anonymous
    2. Re:foot by SnprBoB86 · · Score: 1

      Go watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail" and all will be explained

      --
      http://brandonbloom.name
  8. It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's what you can do to defeat it without risking your optical drive: Hold shift when inserting the disc or, even better, disable CD autostart. But that wouldn't make such a nice headline, would it?

    1. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by BenFranske · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think once upon a time there was a similar revelation that running a black marker around the edge would do the same thing. Really you're just interfering with the drive reading the data portion of the disc so it appears just as an audio disc. The parent is correct, the shift key or turning off autorun works just as well. They don't make headlines though.

    2. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Enzo+the+Baker · · Score: 5, Funny

      No no no. Running a green marker around the edge of your CD is for making it sound better.

      --
      I may twist orthodoxy to partly justify a tyrant. But I can easily make up a German philosophy to justify him entirely.
    3. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! Any sane person should have autorun disabled. I've always disabled it on all of my Windows systems. It's a very annoying "feature". And as we've seen in this case, it opens your computer up to all sorts of nasty installs. If you don't want a rootkit, turn autorun off! ;)

      Heck, I've even had DVDs that want to install some crappy software on my system. I just laugh at it for a second then start up DVD Decryptor. ;)

    4. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by hunterx11 · · Score: 1
      --
      English is easier said than done.
    5. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Mancat · · Score: 1

      If you use the shift key method, you're still in danger. If you open an Explorer window and accidentally open the CD-ROM, aurorun.inf will be executed, and will install the rootkit.

      --
      hello dear sirs my name is jamesh i are india (bihar) can u guide me install red had linux 9?
    6. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by BenFranske · · Score: 1

      I was not talking about the green marker BS. This was a seperate deal see this article for one example, for more.

    7. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by BodhiCat · · Score: 0

      How about buying a Mac and thowing out your, "auto-run, go to a web page and download a virus, one click .exe e-mail attachement" PC. The Windows operating system is passe. Soon Windows will be another fogotten brand name like Edsel or Dr. Winston's Patent Medicine.

    8. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 5, Funny
      I know a guy who insists that degaussing his CDs (i.e., with a magnetic tape eraser) makes them sound better. I $#!^ you not!! I tried to be reasonable and explain how many ways that is wrong, but he insisted that I just have a tin ear. Well, I guess I better go turn in my Master's degree in electrical engineering, because it's no match to his Golden Ear.

      As if that wasn't absurd enough, he later told me how he breaks in his AC power cords by running a current through them before using them on his stereo, because otherwise the sound is too, well, I don't even remember what adjective he used. Yellow? Impudent? Octagonal? Whatever. He said that a new electrical outlet takes even longer to break in. OMFGBBQ! I'm ashamed to say that at that point I completely lost the ability to debate rationally with him and try to educate him, and told him what an idiot he is. Well, at least he doesn't bother to ask me any electronics-related questions any more.

      Sometimes I find myself thinking that I should invent some electrical snake oil to liberate audiophools from their excess money, but I just don't want to sink that low.

    9. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by dascandy · · Score: 1

      As funny as that might be, if you disable the WMA version of the cd that way and get the plain CD version, it's probably even true.

    10. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      You can sell 1000 dollar power cords.... oh shit, they already fell for that one.

      I suggest selling speaker spoilers. They'll go on speakers just like they were cars. They smooth out the airflow so it sounds less.... wobbly, yeah, thats it!

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    11. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You're too late. Someone already sank low enough.
      http://www.monstercable.com/

    12. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      Speaker Spoilers!? ROFL! Unlike degaussing CDs or "breaking in" power cords, that might actually do something to the sound.

    13. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      I know a guy who insists that degaussing his CDs (i.e., with a magnetic tape eraser) makes them sound better.

      Well... the substrate of a commercially pressed CD is metallic, right?

      I suppose exposing a CD to a powerful magnet COULD alter the properties of the substrate in some way, to make the 1's more 1-ier and the 0's more 0-ish.

      How that would translate into better sound is an issue left to those who suffer from the mental disorder known as "Audiophilia".

    14. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      "Sometimes I find myself thinking that I should invent some electrical snake oil to liberate audiophools from their excess money, but I just don't want to sink that low."

      You'd also probably have to pay Monster some licensing fees since they patented that idea ages ago.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    15. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Funny

      What a moron! He uses CDs! Real audiophiles know that records have a much warmer sound than CDs. CDs are so digital sounding! Real audiophiles stick to analog recording with real tubes. I bet this guy doesn't even have the 1000lbs granite slab to mount is equipment on so he doesn't get vibrations from passing trucks and stuff! What a poser.
      And yes there are people like that and no for the love of all that is holy I am not one of them! It is a joke, true but a joke.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    16. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Except that the data is encoded as physical pits in the metallic layer (which is usually aluminum, if I'm not mistaken), and it's read by shining a laser on the disk and observing how the pits modulate the intensity of the reflected light.

      To the best of my knowledge, a tape degausser will not have any physical effect upon a thin layer of aluminum unless the eddy currents that it induces are large enough to heat up the aluminum significantly (think "CD in a microwave oven"). Aluminum is not magnetizable, and even if it was, the method used to read CDs is not sensitive to magnetization of the media.

      Even if the tape degausser did affect the disc by heating up the aluminum enough to melt it, the only thing that it could do would be to induce data errors. Minor data errors would be corrected by the error-correcting code and thus have no effect on the recovered audio. Errors that are too severe to be corrected by ECC would most likely create pops, skips, dropouts, etc., none of which would sound "good" even to somebody with Golden Ears.

      The whole CD-degaussing thing is pure hogwash.

    17. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      Also, don't run your normal user accounts with admin privileges. I don't know the details, but wouldn't this silently try to install in the default windoze program directories?

    18. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by fermion · · Score: 1
      The sticky tape, or marker, is a permanant solution. Shift key, turning off autoload, is temporary, and could leave other or updated machines vunerable.

      If every machine would come with reasonalbe leveles of security, ie autoplay off, autoload of images in email off, rendering of HTML outside of web pages off, Automatic cookie acceptance off, then there would be less need for markers of sticky tape becuaue the only vunerable people would be those that that choose to be or are tricked into turning these own. Rather, most are ticked into using these features at the risk of security.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    19. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      As if that wasn't absurd enough, he later told me how he breaks in his AC power cords by running a current through them before using them on his stereo, because otherwise the sound is too, well, I don't even remember what adjective he used. Yellow? Impudent? Octagonal? Whatever. He said that a new electrical outlet takes even longer to break in.

      This has always been my problem with those so-called high-end audiophiles.

      Now, I'm sure that lots of people hear better than I do, and a trained musician can probably identify a lot more nuances that I ever will. But I've always assumed if it can't be measured with an oscilliscope, that I'm skeptical about what you claim to be hearing. Then again, IANAEE.

      It all sounds so much like spooky magic. But, admittedly, this is the first time I've heard of anyone breaking their AC cables/outlets. That's just funny.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    20. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      Oooh, I bet I could get him to buy a granite table for his stereo equipment (especially the amplifier!) as long as somebody else planted the idea in his head... he's probably smart enough to realize that anything that I tried to get him to do stereo-wise would just be me trying to screw with his brains.

    21. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      I think it's walking the fine line between funny and just plain sad. It's the kind of thing that gives me a headache if I think about it too hard while sober.

    22. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by qengho · · Score: 4, Informative

      Monster Cable? Feh. Their power cords are only 100 bucks.

      This is the ticket: the US$1500 power cable.

      Whoops, old review. The new improved model of that cord goes for US$2200.

    23. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or find yourself a first generation CDROM which doesn't understand multisession.

    24. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Oh, something's being made more of a zero...

    25. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by mikael · · Score: 1

      Are all the connectors of his stereo system gold plated as well?

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    26. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Sharpie permenent marker would work just as well too. Plus it won't unbalance the disk as it spins.

      Though, with that list of crap-music, I doubt I'll ever have to worry about running into this thing.

    27. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by alienw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, you can't measure any fidelity-related parameter in audio systems with an oscilloscope (or any other cheap, readily-available instrument). Distortion, for instance. Anyone can easily hear 1% THD, on any system. You'll see visible distortion on the scope only when it's at about 10% (when you get visible clipping). In fact, most digital scopes use 8-bit ADCs -- try listening to music on an ancient 8-bit soundblaster.

      A very precise spectrum analyzer designed for low frequencies would be much more useful, but you likely won't find one even in a well-equipped lab; a really good one might be _very_ expensive ($50k to millions of dollars).

      Quality is very difficult to measure, simply because the ear is a hell of a lot more sophisticated and sensitive to nonlinearities than any man-made instrument. I think listening to a system is much more useful than trying to measure it with cheap, primitive instruments (like THD meters or oscilloscopes). You can have two systems that measure the same THD but sound drastically different, simply because THD is a simplistic measurement.

      I hate audiophile snake oil ($500 power cables, $20k "interconnects", and magic boxes) as much as you do, but don't assume you can measure everything. Nobody knows how to quantify, for instance, the taste of something. There same applies to audio.

    28. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by justasecond · · Score: 2, Informative

      You guys are pikers. Haven't you heard about the $30,000 dollar speaker cables?

      Thats $ US, by the way.

    29. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by BlkItlStl · · Score: 1

      Sony has a patent on speaker spoilers and will be contacting you with regards to your post.

      --
      Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success
    30. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I believe that you would want your turntable to be on the granite slab. But who the heck knows what goes on in their minds? Maybe vibrations mess up the flow of electrons in the tubes? Good freaking heavens if they ever found out that quantum physics states the the play back will never be exactly the same twice they would want a quantum conditioner that will help the electrons to be in the best possible state!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    31. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by bcattwoo · · Score: 1
      Personally I still like these fancy wooden knobs:

      Silver Rock Signature Knob

      Can't stand the nasty vibrations my current volume knob gives off!

    32. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      Actually, you can't measure any fidelity-related parameter in audio systems with an oscilloscope (or any other cheap, readily-available instrument). Distortion, for instance. Anyone can easily hear 1% THD, on any system. You'll see visible distortion on the scope only when it's at about 10% (when you get visible clipping).

      Thanks for the clarification.

      It has always been presented to me as something we actually could measure.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    33. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 1

      The best are the ones who insist that records sound better because they are analog, but then they play them through their digital stereo. There's just no reasoning with some people.

    34. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Sheridan · · Score: 1
      No, no, no!

      You want the special stones made of "ferrous and non-ferrous materials" and "quartz crystal oscillators" near the transformers of your equipment!

      The result is clearer and sweeter instruments and vocals, with more liquidity, detail and focus.

      So there.

    35. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disclaimer: I don't think that the following effects produce audible artifacts, but I recognize that there is a potential influence which is non-trivial to refute.

      Audio paths are to some extent analog circuits. Even the most advanced players have to turn digital data into analog voltages at some point. There are digital amplifiers, but in the end an analog signal drives the speakers. The electrical properties of analog circuits are influenced by all sorts of environmental parameters. One of these parameters is deformation of the parts which comprise the circuit. Capacitors, transformers and joints are probably the most likely parts to produce electrical variations due to vibrations. These fluctuations are not in the domain of digital data where a one is a one and a zero is a zero, even if there is a little jitter and the voltages are a little off.

      IMHO, it's still far more likely that power grid irregularities and low frequency electromagnetic fields from common household objects and in house wiring have a bigger influence on the analog output of a hifi chain. The funniest part is that actually measuring these effects would is futile, because audiophools are masters of selective perception. If math and engineering don't tell them what they want to hear, then somebody must've measured the wrong thing.

    36. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by pstils · · Score: 1

      i know you're joking but...a lot of people claim that their LPs sound better becuase they're "analogue", using the word to imply that the waveform has an infinate resolution. even the vynil cutter has a resolution. i think that clean vynil sounds better because the resolution is higher but, it should be noted, it's not infinate.

    37. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by MemeRot · · Score: 1

      These people ignore the fact that 99.9999% of modern vinyl records are mastered with digital equipment in a recording studio before being pressed to vinyl. Once it's been digitally mastered, you don't get an 'analog' vinyl pressing.

    38. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are finding it that irritating, invest in one extra CD of his choosing, then test his hypothesis.

    39. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These people ignore the fact that 99.9999% of modern vinyl records are mastered with digital equipment in a recording studio before being pressed to vinyl. Once it's been digitally mastered, you don't get an 'analog' vinyl pressing.

      Yes, but audio resolution is much higher in the studio than a regular audio CD. Using SACD or DVD-audio or some other higher resoultion format makes the difference irrelevant, though.

    40. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by pebs · · Score: 1

      I know a guy who insists that degaussing his CDs (i.e., with a magnetic tape eraser) makes them sound better. I $#!^ you not!! I tried to be reasonable and explain how many ways that is wrong, but he insisted that I just have a tin ear. Well, I guess I better go turn in my Master's degree in electrical engineering, because it's no match to his Golden Ear.

      As if that wasn't absurd enough, he later told me how he breaks in his AC power cords by running a current through them before using them on his stereo, because otherwise the sound is too, well, I don't even remember what adjective he used. Yellow? Impudent? Octagonal? Whatever. He said that a new electrical outlet takes even longer to break in. OMFGBBQ! I'm ashamed to say that at that point I completely lost the ability to debate rationally with him and try to educate him, and told him what an idiot he is. Well, at least he doesn't bother to ask me any electronics-related questions any more.


      This guy is obviously fucking with you. No one can be that stupid... can they?

      --
      #!/
    41. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Feh, that's NOTHING. Some people believe that this device can enhance the sound of CD audio via quantum entanglement with the pits on the disc. No, it's not a fucking joke, some people really are this stupid.

    42. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean I pay that much and I STILL have to spend my time breaking the cable in? Feh!

    43. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by lgw · · Score: 1

      The best part is: shielded cable is more likely to introduce humm or antenna effect through a ground loop than it is to block any sort of outside interference. This is why Cat-5 is unshielded. Of course, the new thing is to braid your own speaker wire out of Cat-5 cable. Presumably because a transmission line optimized for hundreds of megahertz will be a poor choice for hundreds of hertz? Hmm, maybe that's not the reasoning.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    44. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by grolaw · · Score: 1

      Al is diamagnetic. It has a very weak electromagnatic permeability. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_permeability /

      However, that has *nothing* to do with "audio fidelity" - I just wanted to bring up the fact that AL isn't "non-magnetic" but diamagnetic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetic/

    45. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by nathanh · · Score: 1
      What a moron! He uses CDs! Real audiophiles know that records have a much warmer sound than CDs. CDs are so digital sounding! Real audiophiles stick to analog recording with real tubes.

      Records? Tubes? Those are for mere amateurs. A Real Audiophile knows that the best audio reproduction is from a glass jar with a screw top lid. You simply leave the jar open at a concert then quickly screw the lid on when the final song finishes. The residual reverberations of audio in the jar are a perfect reproduction of the original concert. Now admittedly the attenuation is quite high so you need to have perfect Golden Ears to enjoy this exquisite technique. However this shouldn't be a challenge for anybody who dares to claim the title of Real Audiophile.

    46. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by hankwang · · Score: 1
      Quality is very difficult to measure, simply because the ear is a hell of a lot more sophisticated and sensitive to nonlinearities than any man-made instrument.

      I would say that the fact that most people can't hear the difference between a 192 kbps mp3 and the original 1.4 Mbps (700 kbps with lossless FLAC compression) proves that the human ear is quite unsophisticated.

      Search the web (or Google Groups) for Richard Clark's 10000 dollar car amplifier challenge. If you can reliably hear the difference between two amplifiers that are matched in properties that are trivial to measure, you earn 10000 dollars. (trivial properties are: frequency response, output level, clipping, white noise)

      I agree with you that THD is not a very good quantifier. True harmonics (i.e. x Hz sine wave in, 1% at N*x Hz out) are very hard to hear. But if the distortion were a low-amplitude frequency sweep with the same amplitude you can bet that you would hear it.

    47. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by ockegheim · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, I feel like I did the time I found out some grown up people enjoy playing with other people's poo.

      I guess one's son wouldn't be allowed to install broadband over power lines.

      --
      I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
    48. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by nathanh · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, you can't measure any fidelity-related parameter in audio systems with an oscilloscope (or any other cheap, readily-available instrument)

      I'll reservedly agree with that statement.

      Quality is very difficult to measure, simply because the ear is a hell of a lot more sophisticated and sensitive to nonlinearities than any man-made instrument.

      But that is absolute nonsense. Give me a break. You try to distance yourself from the "audiophile snake oil" yet here you are repeating one of the audiophile myths; that they can hear things that can't be measured.

      Anyone can easily hear 1% THD, on any system. You'll see visible distortion on the scope only when it's at about 10% (when you get visible clipping). In fact, most digital scopes use 8-bit ADCs -- try listening to music on an ancient 8-bit soundblaster.

      The problem here is that you're using a strawman experiment. Nobody seriously attempts to measure THD by looking at the signal on an 8-bit scope and squinting until they see clipping. You measure THD with a tone generator and a 24-bit ADC which can easily measure THD down to -122dB. I could personally build such a system for a few hundred dollars or you could buy one of the dozens of professional systems on the market.

      Test equipment is 100s of times better than your ears. The random noise and non-linearities in an ear are just incredible; fluid moving across the hair cells due to movement of the head, the sound of blood flowing near the ear, pressure buildup in your sinus, damaged hair cells due to exposure to high frequency or loud volumes, tinnitus (ringing) which is normally automatically masked by your brain, etc. The human ability to hear is incredibly imperfect. Anybody who thinks that electronic equipment's ability to reproduce audio hasn't already surpassed our ability to hear that audio has more in common with audiophiles than they might like to admit.

    49. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by kesuki · · Score: 1

      a really good one might be _very_ expensive

      Try $600, and that's for the PC and 24-bit DAC, and quality microphone.

      wtf does he mean? http://freshmeat.net/projects/wavesurfer/ why a totally free waveform analysis software...

      albeit, this solution is dependant on the quality of your waveform digitalization, so the 'quality' will never exceed the capabilities of the DAC, but it's definitely more precise than any off the shelf hardware you mentioned.

    50. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by po8 · · Score: 1

      It's quite straightforward to measure THD with an oscilloscope and about $15 worth of electronics.

      THD is a conservative measurement of audio fidelity. It measures a wide range of artifacts of nonlinearity of audio systems. Quite a lot of THD can be masked (from those of us with normal hearing); conversely, however, a system with low THD is likely to be a good system. The other obvious measurement to make is intermodulation distortion (IMD). This is an even easier measurement to make on an oscilloscope, and reveals some problems that THD measurement cannot.

      The big farce in all of this is that speakers (and even reference headphones) are a disaster. The distortion introduced in turning electrical currents into sound waves dwarfs anything modern electronics will do to the signal.

    51. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1
      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    52. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      No, he's really serious! He just doesn't understand enough about how things work to discriminate between electronics-related stuff that makes sense (which is just black magic to most people, I think), and magic pixie dust. That's excusable... electronics just isn't anywhere close to his area of expertise. What's hard to swallow is his pig-headed refusal to listen to people who actually know something about how things work, and do related stuff for a living. Sigh.

    53. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the correction! Unfortunately, my CD-degaussing FOAF is still just as stupid.

      What's ironic is that he often mentions his fundamental theory which very accurately explains much human behavior: "Most People Are Stupid". I agree with him on that one! :-)

    54. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pfffft, I just have Lenny Kravitz play in my asymmetrical, rock-hewn, windowless, furnitureless front room...

      Yes, it sounds awesome, but unlike CDs it sometimes hits bum notes.

    55. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1
      Wow.

      Wow.

      I'm at a loss for words.

      Ok, I'll try to turn him on to those. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if he already knows about (and maybe even uses) those super AC power cords.

      I'm clearly in the wrong line of work (i.e., making an honest living instead of selling magic pixie dust to rubes).

    56. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by zerocool^ · · Score: 2, Funny


      from the website: The Clairvoyant 4D has no equal at its price point.

      A-yup.

      --
      sig?
    57. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....99.9999% of modern vinyl records are mastered with digital equipment in a recording studio before being pressed to vinyl.....

      Actually, I still have a few LP recordings from the 70s-early 80s that were done with a technique called direct to master. In those days, before digital took hold, most recordings were done with wide analog reel to reel tapes. Some studios used magnetically coated 35mm film. These tapes, no matter how good, had some residual noise and distortion. After editing by cutting and splicing the tape, the signal was sent to a master cutting lathe from which the pressings were made. To circumvent the shortcomings of tape, some, relatively few, recordings were done directly to the recording lathe. These recordings were indeed audibly superior. Of course any sour notes in the performance could not be fixed since no editing was possible. One one of these recordings, done in New York, the rumble of a subway train is distinctly audible in one of the quiet passages of the music.

      --
      All theory is gray
    58. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by arminw · · Score: 1

      ...If you can reliably hear the difference between two amplifiers...

      The electronic parts of the audio chain have always been and still are much superior to the transducers at each end, notably the speakers. No matter how expensive and sophisticated the system, it will never equal the actual performance. If you set up the most expensive audio system available and played a recording of a Steinway 12 foot grand piano in a given environment and then had the same pianist play the piano itself, even the most tin eared person would easily be able to tell the difference. The Human ear-brain system is an extremely sophisticated sound processing system that no known audio reproducing apparatus can fool. The same can be said for the human eye-brain system far exceeding any analog or digital picture processing yet devised. Even so, I still enjoy my iPod and digital camera.

      --
      All theory is gray
    59. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 3, Interesting
      How that would translate into better sound is an issue left to those who suffer from the mental disorder known as "Audiophilia".
      I am an audiophile. I don't have Monster cables, and I haven't degaussed my CDs. Yes, thin, shitty speaker wire loses bass, if it's run more than 3-4 feet. I've verified this myself. But considering the sad quality of the speakers with most current stereos, well..... they've got no bass to begin with, so it really doesn't matter.

      I've got my bookshelf stereo hooked up to a pair of 3-way Audio Research speakers, with some decent 16, possibly 18 guage wire, and it shakes the floor quite nicely. The speakers probably cost about 4-5 times what the whole stereo, including speakers, originally cost, but that's where the big difference is.
      I've hooked a pair of Bose speakers to a cheap-as-hell(TM) RCA bookshelf stereo, and it sounds great. Put a pair of cheap speakers on a $1000 Pioneer or Kenwood receiver, and it'll sound like hell. 99% of the sound quality is in the speakers, provided you've got an amp with enough power to drive them. And I'm meaning 5-10 watts, not 250.

      My component stereo is an old circa 1985ish 20W/channel Hitachi, with another pair of Audio Research Speakers. Again, good speakers, decent speaker wire about 16 guage, and it blows away the sound of anything else in the neighbourhood.

      There are nutcases who'll say you need to spend over $1000 on every component, and at least $100 on speaker wire, but there are people who spend $1500 on a pair of GeForce 7800 GTX cards as soon as they come out, too. Yes, it's sweet, but what's the point? It's hardware junkie orgasm-inducing, that's all.

      Spend the money where it counts. In home theater, that's the speakers.
      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    60. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by alienw · · Score: 1

      You measure THD with a tone generator and a 24-bit ADC which can easily measure THD down to -122dB.

      Actually, you measure THD with a tone generator, a filter, and a voltmeter. Do you even have a EE background? Any ADC will have THD+N much greater than a halfway decent amplifier. Also, which ADC chip are you talking about? I have yet to find one with such incredible parameters.

      Second, THD is a primitive measurement. It is simply the percentage of all harmonics in a signal. That's kind of like measuring the quality of drinking water just by looking at the proportion of the contaminants. 0.1% of calcium ions is a hell of a lot better than 0.1% of arsenic ions. Similarly, 0.1% even, low-order harmonics sounds better than 0.1% high order harmonics. THD does not even take this into account.

      Finally, THD is a measurement of only one frequency. It does not take time-domain distortion or phase distortion or the dynamic characteristics into account. The amplifier might have a horrible slew rate and be completely unusable for audio, yet have an excellent THD number at 1kHz. The truth is, there is no easy way to characterize a nonlinear system.

      Test equipment is 100s of times better than your ears.

      Really? So, what listens to the music, test equipment or your ears? What kind of test equipment are you referring to -- spectrum analyzers, oscilloscopes, distortion meters, or something else?

      The random noise and non-linearities in an ear are just incredible

      That's irrelevant. Nonlinearities generally don't "mask" each other. You are arguing that it is impossible to tell a recording from the original sound, which is obviously not the case.

      The human ability to hear is incredibly imperfect. Anybody who thinks that electronic equipment's ability to reproduce audio hasn't already surpassed our ability to hear that audio has more in common with audiophiles than they might like to admit.

      Are you saying that it's hard to tell a recorded instrument from a live instrument? Try recording, say, a piano so that it sounds like you are standing next to one. You are underestimating our hearing.

    61. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by alienw · · Score: 1

      I would say that the fact that most people can't hear the difference between a 192 kbps mp3 and the original 1.4 Mbps (700 kbps with lossless FLAC compression) proves that the human ear is quite unsophisticated.

      If you can't tell a 192kBps MP3 from the original, you are either deaf or have horrible speakers. I agree with the premise, since most people have horrible speakers hooked up to their PC.

      If you can reliably hear the difference between two amplifiers that are matched in properties that are trivial to measure

      Sure, two mediocre amplifiers will sound... mediocre. I doubt there is such thing as a high-fidelity car amplifier. The circuits are usually full of compromises to get them to run off of 12V.

    62. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by The+Real+Veritas · · Score: 1

      That story reminds me of a friend of mine who is an audiophile. He's got well over $10,000US into his system, has all of the uber-expensive power cables, the special stand to isolate all that stuff from vibrations, etc.

      Anyway...he got talked into buying this CD sized disc that was glow-in-the-dark for about $60. The idea was that you'd hold it up to a light, then place it on top of your CD (but you had to hurry so it didn't stop glowing) and BOOM! Audio magic!

    63. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by alienw · · Score: 1

      The distortion introduced in turning electrical currents into sound waves dwarfs anything modern electronics will do to the signal.

      Do you have any numbers or did you pull this out of your ass? What's a typical THD value of a speaker? Is this for $40 speakers, $500 speakers, $40000 speakers?

    64. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Good freaking greif!!!!!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    65. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Technician · · Score: 1

      Actually, you can't measure any fidelity-related parameter in audio systems with an oscilloscope (or any other cheap, readily-available instrument). Distortion, for instance. Anyone can easily hear 1% THD, on any system. You'll see visible distortion on the scope only when it's at about 10% (when you get visible clipping). In fact, most digital scopes use 8-bit ADCs -- try listening to music on an ancient 8-bit soundblaster.

      If you want to measure THD, just a scope won't do the trick. Use the proper gear. Proper gear includes a low distortion sine wave generator, tunable twin T filter, low distortion delay line, mixer and inverter. Feed the sine wave through what ever you are testing. Take the output and filter it with a high Q filter to obtain the original sine wave. Sum the sine wave inverted and delayed (phase matched) with the output for the deepest null. What remains is the non-sine distortion and noise components. Now measure that. To isolate the noise and distortion components, the original must be filtered out so the result can be analyzed.

      In the old day that was how VU meters and record levels were calibrated on reel to reel tape recorders. You run up the record level until the third harmonic distortion started to rise up to a certain amount (specified by manufacture typicaly 1%) and then the VU meters were set to indicate whatever +VU level the manufacture specified. (Often +3 to +10).

      It used to be people cared the amplifier would produce less than 0.01% THD at rated RMS output. Now all they care about is wow 500 peak music power watts (at like 10% distortion).

      I used to show people a 30 watt (RMS each channel) amplifier easly blew away a 250 watt stereo on the same set of speakers. I could then educate them why the 30 watt amp had a 12 amp fuse and the 250 watt amplifier had a 5 amp fuse. One clipped at 48 V P-P and the other clipped at 23 V P-P or at less than a quarter of the power.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    66. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by po8 · · Score: 1

      (We're pretty far off topic here, but oh well.)

      My vague "common knowledge" recollection is that speakers typically range between 0.5% and 2% THD+N, with good reference headphones getting down to the 0.1% range. With modern (transistor :-) electronics, 0.01% THD+N for the rest of the system is readily achievable.

      Googling around for something to back up my recollections :-), I found this piece of anecdotal evidence: THD+N in the 0.3% and up range for moderate frequencies from $3000 bookshelf speakers. Note also, however, that speaker THD tends to be measured at an absurdly loud 90dBm speaker output: numbers at a more realistic (but still loud) 70dBm level will be better, although I'm not sure by how much. I didn't spot any THD measurements for reference headphones offhand. I have no idea how much better a $40,000 speaker can be, but generally these kinds of things asymptote...

      Somebody should probably find some authoritative sources to back me up or refute me. I'm out of time for it now, sorry.

    67. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by alienw · · Score: 1

      OK, that's quite a bit more convincing. Still, I would say that amplifier distortion is not exactly negligible. Speakers are fairly simple and their distortion mechanisms do not involve feedback loops, so the distortion spectrum is probably predominantly second harmonic. Solid-state amplifiers have most of their harmonics at the far end of the spectrum, somewhere around 5th harmonic and up. This is due to the global negative feedback loop that all of them use.

      It has been shown many times that low-order harmonics are not as noticeable as high-order harmonics -- most likely, the ear also produces the same artifacts. A poor quality amplifier may very well be the weakest link in an audio system, even if the speakers produce more distortion.

    68. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I'm clearly in the wrong line of work

      Tell me about it. Thing is, the power cord thingy looks kinda plausible. (The is unless you actually read it). But the other one is goofy in the extreme... a magic chip (which looks like plastic dummy SD chip that shipped inside my camera (the real one being in a little case in the box) that fixes your CDs when you place it on the CD player while it's spinning the disc. The power of quantum mechanics. Seriously. Go back and look.

      There's even a link to a review by someone who clearly buys into the psuedo-technical claptrap. You almost couldn't make up stuff this bizarre.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    69. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by oirtemed · · Score: 1

      I'm still wondering how the hell these things get sold as audio cds.

    70. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by klang · · Score: 1

      ultra-pure silver ribbon conductor ..the rest of the cabeling in my home (or on my street) is not made from this material, so I guess that I don't need this one..

    71. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      I have an old 2x cdrom that probably dosen't do multi-session. Problem with many cdroms that old is they often required specialized interfaces (pre-atapi) that were sometimes on ISA boards.
          Of course you could get yourself software to simply read all the sessions on the disc. ISO Buster has worked for me. It was quite able to read the real music tracs one protected disc I had. Last I checked it was still free.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    72. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by dumbskull · · Score: 0

      "Dont argue with an Idiot, because he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience" An apt quote here.

    73. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by nathanh · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually, you measure THD with a tone generator, a filter, and a voltmeter. Do you even have a EE background?

      Yes, I do. I graduated with honours from a leading Australian university several years ago. As part of my studies I not only built this equipment but also did the mathematical derivations to prove the validity of the equipment. I also build audio equipment as a hobby and I really dislike egotistical pissants who use the "Do you even have a blah blah background" pompous statement in an attempt to discredit another person.

      Also, which ADC chip are you talking about?

      Chip? Who said anything about a chip? What the hell are you talking about?

      Second, THD is a primitive measurement.

      You were the one who raised THD as a strawman argument against electronic test equipment. You made the claim that audio engineers measure THD by squinting at 8-bit scopes looking for visible clipping.

      You are arguing that it is impossible to tell a recording from the original sound, which is obviously not the case.

      No, I'm not. Yet another obvious attempt by yourself to divert the attention from your original gaffe. I'm arguing against this claim you made.

      simply because the ear is a hell of a lot more sophisticated and sensitive to nonlinearities than any man-made instrument.

      Because that statement of yours is pure and utter crap. The human ear has well known boundaries that are easily surpassed by decent test equipment.

    74. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by hankwang · · Score: 1
      If you can't tell a 192kBps MP3 from the original, you are either deaf or have horrible speakers.

      I did blind experiments with LAME abr with a high-end sound card and Sennheiser headphones and I could not hear the difference from 160 kbps ABR. I must be deaf from having had 12 years of classical music education. 192 kbps is roughly --alt-preset standard which is generally agreed by the lossy sound compression community to be indistinguishable from the original for most (i.e. more than 50%) people.

      Sure, two mediocre amplifiers will sound... mediocre.

      Why would two mediocre amplifiers sound mediocre in exactly the same way? There is only one way for an amplifier to perform perfectly (output voltage same as input voltage apart from a constant scaling factor). There are infinitely many possibilities to deviate from this.

    75. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by po8 · · Score: 1

      The thing is, if you can't build an amplifier that's quite linear to 500KHz in 2005, you're doing it wrong somehow (or just being fairly cheap :-). That gives you plenty of headroom in frequency space. And again, you're talking about the total THD+N from the amp being 20-30 dB down from the speakers; no matter where in the spectrum you put that energy, it's likely to be comparatively unnoticeable.

      The speaker distortion comes from goofy nonlinearities that, while open loop, are really hard to minimize. Perhaps the most significant is that the speakers are driven open loop; inertia and friction in the driver isn't compensated for well by open-loop control of coil current. Folks have messed with things like laser measurement of driver position to provide feedback. I've heard claims it helps a lot, but for some reason even high-end audiophile speakers don't seem to do it.

      You are definitely right about speaker harmonics being LF, and thus less objectionable. The big concern with audiophile speakers seems to be subwoofers, which may have 10% THD+N (!), but who cares, since almost all the energy is down where we can't tell sounds apart anyhow.

      And now we're definitely off topic. :-)

    76. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by hankwang · · Score: 1
      The electronic parts of the audio chain have always been and still are much superior to the transducers at each end, notably the speakers. [...] same pianist play the piano itself, even the most tin eared person would easily be able to tell the difference.

      It indeed has to do with the transducers, but I don't think this is a fair comparison. The main reason the original sounds different from the recording is the fact that it is fundamentally impossible to reproduce the three-dimensional sound field with only two loudspeakers, even if the loudspeakers themselves had been transducing their input voltage into air pressure.

      If you record a piano in stereo, you will measure the sound pressure at two points, which includes contributions coming directly from the piano and the acoustics of the environment. If you play back the recording in the same environment, you get the room acoustics for a second time. Apart from that, the way the sound from two loudspeakers reflect from the walls is different from the reflections of a piano standing between those loudspeakers.

      What I mean is: this has nothing to do with the human ear being more sophisticated than electronics can measure. If you put two (test) microphones at the listener's position, you would see a different signal depending on whether the recording was playing or the original musician. In theory, it is possible to use DSP techniques to pre-compensate the loudspeaker signal such that the playback signal is identical to the original at the test microphone's position, but shifting the microphones by just 1 cm would completely undo this precompensation.

    77. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by alienw · · Score: 1

      Why would two mediocre amplifiers sound mediocre in exactly the same way?

      Because they use an identical topology, which pretty much determines what the distortion will look like, and the experiment closely matches THD, noise, and IMD. Chances are, both amps use the same type of devices (BJT vs MOSFET) and the same exact amplifier circuit. If you want to hear something different, compare a single ended class A topology to a class AB, a push-pull class A, and maybe even a class D. Not to mention BJTs vs MOSFETs vs tubes.

    78. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by hankwang · · Score: 1
      Chances are, both amps use the same type of devices (BJT vs MOSFET) and the same exact amplifier circuit.

      In the amplifier challenge, the user is allowed to pick any two commercially available amplifiers to his liking (a $200 versus a $1000 is acceptable). An equalizer will be inserted into the signal chain of one of them (user can pick which one) if they have measurable different frequency responses. The whole point of this contest is to prove that simple electrical measurements are sufficient as a sound-quality indicator.

    79. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by MemeRot · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the no editing is the problem. Pure analog recording to pure analog medium played back with analog technology can sound great. But there's no room for editing, re-eq'ing, etc. and it's not a technique that's used any more anyway. And unfortunately after the physical degradation that occurs with rubbing a stylus over vinyl dozens of time, what you're left with in terms of sound quality is lower than what you'd have with a CD or especially a DVD-Audio.

    80. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by arminw · · Score: 1

      ........this has nothing to do with the human ear being more sophisticated than electronics can measure....

      You are correct in stating that the sound field of a recording and that of a live performance are different. However in the process of converting air vibrations to and from an electrical signal, something other than what can be measured with any instruments is lost. If you ever suspect that the place such as a hotel room you are in is electronically bugged so that you may not wish to discuss private things with someone else, just go into the bathroom and turn on the water or generate white noise the best way available. Then carry on a conversation is a low voice with the other person. Anyone listening through an electronic channel will not be able to make out you conversation at all, whereas the person you are talking with will have no problem. Another way to test this is to record a room full of people talking to each other, such as at a party, and then try to pick out individual conversations in that recording. When you are present in the room, you have no problem, usually, to "tune in" on a particular conversation. Even though the air pressure signal arriving at your eardrums is the same as it would be with a corresponding microphone in that location, some aspect of the sound information is lost in the translations. Whatever this information is, the brain uses it to pick out the sounds it wants to hear and supresses the other sound. That is why you are able to easily carry on a conversation in a jetliner, even though the sound intensity in the aircraft is many times louder than the sound of your seat-mate's voice.

      The closest anyone has ever come in exactly reproducing sound we hear is through binaural recording. A dummy human head with sensitive condenser mics in the "ears" picks up the sound, which is then later reproduced through high quality headphones worn by the listener. I had an LP recording once that was made that way and it sounded fantastic when listened to with earphones. One cut on the recording was a city street scene, at one point of which I actually jumped back because it sounded like I was about to be run over by a bus. These recordings never caught on because through speakers it sounds not much different than monaural. I wonder though today, with millions listening to iPods through headphones, whether such recordings would sell.

      --
      All theory is gray
    81. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by IvyKing · · Score: 1
      Maybe vibrations mess up the flow of electrons in the tubes?

      That's not as far fetched as it may sound. The flow of electrons in the tubes are governed by the voltage on the grid wires and the spacing of the grid wires - the latter can be affected by vibrations (microphonics). In addition, most ceramic capacitors show some piezoelectric effect (exceptions are porcelain ceramics).

      Tubes do have an advantage over transistors - the interelectrode capacitances are not dependent on operating voltages.

    82. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....And unfortunately after the physical degradation that occurs with rubbing a stylus over vinyl dozens of time, what you're left with in terms of sound quality is lower than what you'd have with a CD or especially a DVD-Audio......

      There are may reasons why CD and DVD have caught on in a big way. The convenience of the form factor coupled with good to excellent quality, not subject to playback wear are certainly among these.

      It is deplorable that now as technology has made audio and video widely available, the copyright owners are fighting their customers through cumbersome, incompatible, useless and damaging anti-copy techniques and with an army of lawyers. Each time, when radio, reel tape recorders, audio and video cassettes came out, the copyright owners tried to use legal means to thwart or hobble the new technologies. Only when they realized that those tactics will not work in the long run, did they adjust their business models and figure out how to use the new ways to make tons of money. I am confident that this DRM thing is only a temporary knee jerk reaction by the old fogies still in control of most of the large entertainment conglomerates. When those guys finally retire or die, younger successors, who grew up with iPods, will figure out how to make money in new ways, without resorting to plagueing their customers with DRM or lawyers. Industry purchased laws, such as the DMCA will become anachronisms of the past, even if they are left on the books, such as some laws are still in place pertaining to horses and buggies.

      --
      All theory is gray
    83. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by hankwang · · Score: 1
      However in the process of converting air vibrations to and from an electrical signal, something other than what can be measured with any instruments is lost.[...] Anyone listening through an electronic channel will not be able to make out you conversation at all, whereas the person you are talking with will have no problem [...] through binaural recording...sounded fantastic when listened to with earphones

      I'm not sure that we actually have a disagreement here. You are basically stating that you lose information when you try to collapse the three dimensional sound field into a monaural channel and much less if you do it with a good binaural recording since then the sound field at the listener's position is exactly reproduced during playback through headphones. My statement is that this physics behind this is well-understood rather than that the ear is a mysterious device that can pick up differences that are impossible to quantify with a measurement. It's just that you have to pick the right type of measurement. (The only thing that is hard is what the brain does with the binaural signal, but it doesn't matter much whether that binaural signal is live or comes from headphones and a binaural recording.)

      By the way, the proper way to do a binaural recording is not with condensor mikes inside the ears, at least not if you play back through a normal headphone. The frequency response of a good headphone is corrected for the acoustic response of the pinnae and the ear channel. Normally you make a binaural recording by putting omnidirectional mikes roughly at the place where the headphone will be sitting during playback.

    84. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by tombeard · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean a wire stretched tight in a wooden box?

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    85. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by tombeard · · Score: 1
      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    86. Re:It's sticky tape now, huh? by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

      Gold does tend to conduct well, but the main reason they use it because it doesn't really oxidize.

      --
      Libertas in infinitum
  9. This is a dupe, and it's been done to deathbefore. by Senes · · Score: 1

    But it's still funny to me. Goes to show what these multi-million-dollar investments in anti-piracy and all of the legislation accomplishes. Go tape!

  10. Freedom cannot be defeated! by CyricZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Indeed, these scenarios show just how artificial restrictions on knowledge and information are. It is impossible to try to make such an inherently abundant resource scarce, in order to derive profit.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by kfg · · Score: 5, Funny

      " ". . .it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.'" "

      Well, obviously all they need to do is put a stop to this sort of nonsense.

      KFG

    2. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by Have+Blue · · Score: 0

      Music isn't "inherently abundant". For music to be copied, it must first be created. Composing skills are not inherently abundant. Talent at playing instruments is not inherently abundant. Creativity isn't inherently abundant. The fact that it's typically placed in a form that can be copied for virtually zero cost doesn't have any effect on the cost of the first copy of a completely new piece of music.

    3. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by WarForge · · Score: 1

      While agree with you on the knowledge and information front, I think De Beers would disagree with you that your theorem holds true for all "inherently abundant resources" as they make a killing (literally according to some reports) in selling the world diamonds, which are found in "plentiful supply"

    4. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by johnty · · Score: 1

      true. Until the day they figure out how to make it so only people who paid for the music can _hear_ the sound, they can never fully control replication of audio. It doesn't take much to make a very good analog copy of a CD and reconvert it. Yes you will lose some data through the D2A A2D, but I bet it'll be hard for the majority of users to notice the difference. After all, its the masses they're worried about - the select few audiophiles who can hear the difference aren't likely to be doing as much copying in the first place.

      --
      I am unique, just like you, and you, and you...
    5. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 1

      I few months ago I heard a few stories on the radio about (a misnamed) DVD music disks and players. The stories said that the quality will be so much better and they will be able to put much more content on to the disk and as the time I was thinking how much better can the audio quality get and how much more content can you put on the album , they only thing I could think of was this would be a way to make all the old stand alone players obsolete and they could start over again and put DRM in to all the players stand alone or not.

      I was also thinking some one should explain to them what the V stand for in DVD.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    6. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I was also thinking some one should explain to them what the V stand for in DVD.

      It stands for versatile, which would make sense in their usage, unless you meant to imply that the V stands for video, in which case it doesn't.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    7. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by GoatMonkey2112 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It does and doesn't compare to something like a web site. For example, you have a site like CNN which is delivering the same information in a different format that you can otherwise get on TV. Now that information changes so much that they can get you to keep coming back for more every day. And they can also give you the information for free with included advertising. You could if you wanted to capture the video streams from the web site, or just simply record it with your TIVO or VCR.

      Music on the other hand does not change quite so often. That video file or text file that you got from CNN will be something that you don't care about in a couple of days probably. Music on the other hand could still match your tastes 20 years from now.

      The other thing, music is not really an abundant resource. I do not personally know anyone who has ever written their own song. But everyone I know has typed up info and posted or transmitted it on the internet at some point. Secondly, the quality of music varies greatly given the artist recreating it.

      Record companies do need to change their expectations for profit in the new world of online media. Anyone with a web site can now transmit their own music to anyone in the world. Indie music is rising in this new environment, and big record companies are confused as to what to do about it.

      It's simple competition, the big guys just don't like the new way of playing the game. Sink or swim record labels, lawsuits will not save you.

    8. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    9. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      Need some sort of quantum music distrobution system such that intercepting the specially encoded stream by anything other than the destination player would ruin the bits.

      Btw, this is somewhat tongue in cheek.

    10. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by kfg · · Score: 1

      Once we start thinking of everything as bits everything is everything, hardware, software and media.

      An iPod is just a portable HD that happens to have a decoder in it.

      KFG

    11. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In response to all the retards that are going to say that the "V" is for "Versatile", I'm going to defend you with this:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd

      From TFWE (wiki entry):
      "DVD" was originally an initialism for "Digital Video Disc". Some members of the DVD Forum believe that it should stand for "Digital Versatile Disc" to reflect its widespread use for non-video applications. Toshiba, which maintains the official DVD Forum site [3], adheres to the interpretation of "Digital Versatile Disc". The DVD Forum never reached a consensus on the matter, however, and so today the official name of the format is simply "DVD"; the letters do not officially stand for anything.[4]

      Got that? It originally stood for "Digital Video Disc", some members of the DVD Forum believe that it should stand for "Digital Versatile Disc", and the official name of the format is DVD, so the letters do not officially stand for anything.

      Thus ends the debate as well as the "but it means versatile!" argument.

    12. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " ". . .it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.'" "

      Well, obviously all they need to do is put a stop to this sort of nonsense.


      Next big step: coin-operated eardrums.

      In the UK: random eardrum-license raids.

    13. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 1

      Funny, my google search came up with the first like to the unofficial dvd spec page and it siad video. Ogh well. Live and learn.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    14. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless your name is Apple Computer, Inc. Then you will be praised far and wide for restricting freedom.

    15. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by happymedium · · Score: 2, Informative

      all they need to do is put a stop to this sort of nonsense.

      But for HD-DVD/Blu-ray and SACD, all players will support DRM. It won't be nonsense then.

      (At least until DVD Jon gets his hands on their so-called "encryption"... ^_^ )

    16. Re:Freedom cannot be defeated! by kfg · · Score: 1

      But for HD-DVD/Blu-ray and SACD, all players will support DRM.

      That's what I said, innit?

      KFG

  11. But that's old news.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    Circumventing DRM with sticky tape on CD's etc. is more than boring
    That's state of the art

    Can't they come up with more original ideas?? Couldn't believe they _still_ think this kind of crap was working

  12. When office supplies are outlawed by gelfling · · Score: 5, Funny

    Only outlaws will have office supplies.

    1. Re:When office supplies are outlawed by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 5, Funny

      You can have my red stapler, when you pry it from my soft, geeky fingers.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  13. Restricted Technology by scovetta · · Score: 5, Funny

    Illegal technology, outlawed by DMCA:
      * Sticky Tape
      * Magic Markers
      * Shift Keys

    When will these companies learn? 3M, Sharpie, and Dell-- stop trying to get me to break the law!!!

    --
    Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
    1. Re:Restricted Technology by mayhemt · · Score: 0

      * Linux

    2. Re:Restricted Technology by InvalidError · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You forgot:
        * Non-Windows (or OSX) OSes
        * Non-x86 (or PPC for OSX) CPUs
        * User accounts that do not have software and driver install privileges
        * Disabling autorun (gpedit.msc -> Admin Templates -> Turn Off Autoplay = Enabled for all)

    3. Re:Restricted Technology by IWorkForMorons · · Score: 1

      Oh hell, just outlaw sound cards. If you can't hear songs on your computer there's no point in ripping CDs then, is there?

    4. Re:Restricted Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's dmca, you communist pinko shift-key user111111

    5. Re:Restricted Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe tin foil has to be on there somehow.

      If not now, when?

      (BTW, I think there is a conspiracy on slashdot to eliminate
      AC posts. That freakin security image is getting harder to
      decipher every day. If you can read this, I made it... ha ha)

  14. Easier way by nsayer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last time I had to defeat the usual sort of multi-session CD DRM I just used a whiteboard pen. It's helpful because if you go to far in (and start losing the last track), you can just rub little bits off until you get it just right.

    1. Re:Easier way by digitaldc · · Score: 5, Funny

      ....if you go to far in, you can just rub little bits until you get it just right."

      How do you know my girlfriend?

      --
      He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    2. Re:Easier way by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but dry-erase pen is just dust, and some of it will come off the CD in your drive. It's only a slightly better idea than writing on floppies in pencil...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Easier way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      dude, everybody knows your girlfriend.

    4. Re:Easier way by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Funny

      I guess, yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I get the feeling that she's cheating on me.

      --
      He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    5. Re:Easier way by bohemian72 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, I know what you mean.

      --
      The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
    6. Re:Easier way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We know this post is a fake! You're on /.!!! You don't HAVE a girlfriend!!!

      Well, at least one that's not inflatable...

    7. Re:Easier way by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      What is THAT supposed to mean?

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    8. Re:Easier way by bohemian72 · · Score: 1

      You know, just sometimes, lookin' at her *shudder* Oh! Hey, I-I'm talkin' outa my ass.

      --
      The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
    9. Re:Easier way by InsideTheAsylum · · Score: 1

      Guys, from what I've learned from my last girlfriend, if you post something online regarding your relationship, post is it anonymously. . . otherwise, well, it leads to stuff :X

    10. Re:Easier way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not american and this humour comment baffles me, what does it mean?

    11. Re:Easier way by bohemian72 · · Score: 1

      Not usually a problem when it's simply quoting lines from a movie. Check out Office Space sometime. It's funny.

      --
      The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
    12. Re:Easier way by Mark+Hood · · Score: 1

      Sounds like he knows her very well.....

      --
      Liked this comment? Why not buy me something nice
  15. Haven't we seen this? by MatD · · Score: 0, Redundant

    how is this different from using a permenent marker to black out the same section?

    --
    Since when did operating systems become a religion?
    1. Re:Haven't we seen this? by kryten_nl · · Score: 1

      how is this different from using a permenent marker to black out the same section?

      No wait, don't tell me, it's op the tip of my tongue.....

      --
      For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
    2. Re:Haven't we seen this? by KitFox · · Score: 1

      This is different because people who do it are technically risking offbalancing their CD... and in todays CD devices on computers that seem to almost exceed the RPM of a jet engine, that can be catastrophic. And as another poster pointed out, the tape can also potentially come off and gum up your internals. I recommend the Marker Method over tape, definitely.

      --

      @Whee

  16. THIS GUY IS GOING DOWN by the+computer+guy+nex · · Score: 2, Funny

    Right with the Shift-Key guy. HACKERS!

  17. And in related news by Billosaur · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...shares of 3M rose by 15 points

    From Information Week: According to Gartner analysts Martin Reynolds and Mike McGuire, Sony's XCP technology is stymied by sticking a fingernail-size piece of opaque tape on the outer edge of the CD.

    Ok, if I'm a Sony exec, do I feel very stupid right now?

    From Gartner: After more than five years of trying, the recording industry has not yet demonstrated a workable DRM scheme for music CDs. Gartner believes that it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.

    And being the music industry, they will not give up. Like lemmings to the sea. Really, there's nothing they can do. If someone can create software to copy-protect a CD, some enterprising soul can create software to defeat it.

    They'll keep it up, because they will be in a blind panic at the idea of their profits drying up, even though they could spend time and effort creating some kind of shared, P2P music publication system whereby they could make money and people could get the music they wanted. But that's just one man's opinion.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:And in related news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My favorite story like this is still the dreamcast, they spent many many millions trying to make a system of game CD that couldn't be hacked - they didn't release until they thought they had it. Yet, two weeks before the Dreamcast hit stores, there was already a way to bypass the protection system - you could hotswap a real disc out and a burned disc in after the security check but before the game loaded in. All the security checkes were on the same region on the discs so the player didn't even notice the missing game CD. Then maybe 2-3 weeks after that if I remember correctly, someone made a boot CD with the same effect except it didn't require the slight of hands. A couple months later, even the pirated copies had the security encoding on them.

    2. Re:And in related news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard that crap about the music industry making a P2P client so people can get the music they want BS so much that it's just got to be put to rest.

      If it did happen, what makes you think they wouldn't price the highest selling singles as much as the entire CD in order to make you buy the CD. It would even give them an excuse to raise CD prices even more. I hardly even listen to music that I didn't download 5 years ago anymore.

      Expect sony's rootkit and other devious methods of DRM to become the norm. I even expect it to become legal for our corporate sponsors to know the most intimate details of our lives in the next few years. Congrats on defining an artificial system that doesn't actually need controls. Human behavior of the worst kind now defines the world.

      Not that anyone cares what an insane AC says.

  18. Low tech hacks by Chr0nik · · Score: 4, Informative

    Gotta love it. Almost as cool as the captain crunch whistle.... well, not quite.

    --


    ... what did you expect, something profound?
  19. LOL @ MUSIC INDUSTRY!!!!!!!! ROFL by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2, Funny

    seriously

    these guys are better than that insane chick on 'trading spouses'

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    1. Re:LOL @ MUSIC INDUSTRY!!!!!!!! ROFL by digitaldc · · Score: 1

      these guys are better than that insane chick on 'trading spouses'

      "GET OUTTA MY COMPUTER YOU WHORE!"

      --
      He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    2. Re:LOL @ MUSIC INDUSTRY!!!!!!!! ROFL by korbin_dallas · · Score: 1

      Liar! Which one WAS sane????

      That show needs to be renamed. I suggest:

      Veggies vs Ted Nugent!

      --
      They Live, We Sleep
  20. I predict by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That it will be impossible as long as CDs are playable!
    What is next will Sony try and outlaw mics and wires?
    Dear Sony. I will not steal your music. In fact I will not listen to or buy your music anymore. I am sure that eventualy artists will move to a label that treats it's customers with a bit more respect.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:I predict by amigabill · · Score: 4, Funny

      > I am sure that eventualy artists will move to a label that treats it's customers with a bit more respect.

      Sony will likely call your bluff here, as they know there is no such thing today as a label that treats its customers with any respect.

    2. Re:I predict by unik · · Score: 0

      Sadly, this is false. All the money hungry emo bands will gladly accept whatever Sony dishes out.

      --
      "You won't eat our meat, but you'll glue with our feet.." --Some cow
    3. Re:I predict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  21. Hooray for Old Technology! by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is, however, probably in violation of DMCA.

    "Alright, buster, how did you get around it?" "Look, Sarge! Tape! He's got a roll of tape!"
    "You rebel scum!"
    I bet I can overcome their DRM by not wanting anything from that list of albums, too.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  22. Any Linux-proof DRM... by tchuladdiass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Has there been any Audio CD drm put out that doesn't rely on the auto-run feature of Windows? I remember reading something about one method that would put defects in the disc that would be filtered out by an audio CD player, but I haven't seen any reports if that would affect cd-paranoia.
    In other words, since I do all my music work using Linux, do I need to worry about any of the protection methods currently out there?
    I'd like to see a list of all the drm methods that are "in the wild" along with their prevalence and effectiveness agains various OS's & tools.

    1. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by paranode · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The glaring problem that the record companies don't seem to grasp is that if a CD player can read it, then you can get the audio from it. There is no way around this really. Pirates have a lot of resources too, so even if these companies manage to stop casual ripping the groups will still put the music out there. The best the music companies can hope for in future formats is that pirates will have to resort to analog copying (which with good equipment is still high quality) but I don't think it will even come to that.

    2. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by Pope · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, there was that one that killed slot-loading iMacs... :)

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    3. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by Angstroem · · Score: 2, Informative
      I don't remember whether it was the first Anastacia album or Shakira's "Laundry Service". When my g/f bought them, I just *had* to rip them just due to the "copy protected" sticker, although I was not quite keen on having that stuff on my HTPC.

      First attempt: Pioneer Slot-in DVD drive. That one just didn't like the disk: I wasn't even able to read the CD, as the drive made funny noises faintly reminding to 1541 (that's the C64 floppy drive for you youngsters) read errors.

      Second attempt: Plextor. No problems with accessing the disk, but when ripping it I got some bogus track 0 with strange data in it.

      Never had that again with any of the "copy controlled" CDs.

    4. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by multipartmixed · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > the drive made funny noises faintly reminding to 1541
      > (that's the C64 floppy drive for you youngsters) read errors.

      It may have been the very same thing.

      The 1541 would recover from read errors by telling the stepping motor to position the head WAY past the outer track. Of course, this would cause it to bang it repeated against the cam stop. This would insure that the head was properly aligned for track zero (and probably why those damned drives went out of alignment so often!). Then, it would count forward the right number of tracks, and try to read the data again.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    5. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by iamnotaclown · · Score: 4, Informative
      Has there been any Audio CD drm put out that doesn't rely on the auto-run feature of Windows? I remember reading something about one method that would put defects in the disc that would be filtered out by an audio CD player, but I haven't seen any reports if that would affect cd-paranoia.

      Yes, there is. There are a few different versions of this, but the general idea is to intentionally put bad data in the tracks (or the TOC) that would be error-corrected out by an audio CD player, but cause a CD-ROM to fail while attempting to read it. Some modern CD-ROM drives still have trouble with this type of copy control. Since the error correction layers have been subverted, the tiniest scratch will usually render the CD unplayable.

      More info here: http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-4-3

    6. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      analog copying (which with good equipment is still high quality)
      Hey, I just realized something: if the source is digital you can make perfect digital copies with enough analog tries (or maybe a couple of kinds of analog equipment, to cancel out this or that quirk) as long as the analog equipment is "good enough", though I'm not sure how that should be defined. At the very least it can't just discard certain information altogether. (Like a telephone line would with certain frequencies that the CD does contain...)

      To make an image analogy: an old laptop with 800 x 600 x 256 bit resolution is, unless some pixel is dead, displaying 480000 bytes when it displays a steady image. Say you want to copy those, but can only look at a sharp high-resolution photograph of the monitor. Well, if on your photograph you can see each pixel clearly, and the border between it and the next pixel (and clearly means it's the equivalent of 256 x 256 in-focus pixels), and your color depth on that picture is in the millions of colors, you should be able to figure out a byte-for-byte transcript of whatever the monitor just displayed, given enough tries to cancel out the noise your image gets, e.g. from passing shadows and the like that distort your idea of their exact value; analog means that a single calibration with a known test image isn't enough to account for everything. (Second idea:....even if it's displayed by javascript in a maximized IE window! What a covert channel! No matter how locked down a computer is, you can transfer 480KB/second [net throughput of one clear snapshot per second -- though really consisting of two or three that you use to cancel out the noise, make sure the photograph is in good focus, calibrate with a test image, etc] off of it with just a few-megapixel camera, as long as you have access enough to programmatically create and display bitmaps. To all those people who thought, hey, if there's no network connection, and it's behind plexiglass, and the keyboard and mouse are bolted in place, data's not leaving it except through human eyes: neener neener.)

      So anyway, now we go on to, if the analog output "systematically" distorts a certain range, you can figure it out from some "test patterns", maybe calibration over a few gos, and if it's not systematic, then sooner or later it cancels out statistically, right? (e.g. if albums had been from digital masters, it doesn't matter if by now every copy anywhere in the world has hisses and pops, if you listen to them all you can reconstruct the digital masters...)

        Uh, I guess there's some stupid formula that comes now, saying the number of tries before you can figure out if a forty-four thousandth of a hertz has value 122 or 123 [ie, the total number of times you need to analog-play a CD on commonly available equipment -- each time taking up to 72 minutes!] varies directly with the total harmonic distortion of your analog equipment over, the, uh, wavelength of a single pit on the CD-ROM times, the, uh, impedence of your microphone all over, uh, or maybe the square root of that. I have a feeling the Nobel's not for me.

      Anyway, if the analog is better "resolution" than the CD, it should work, just like a scanning tunnelling microscope can figure out what a bunch of digital (raised or not-raised) atom pits are.... (They spell IBM...)

      I'm so not putting my name on this.

    7. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by CCFreak2K · · Score: 1

      There's maybe about 5 different audio CD protection schemes, but they aren't very popular, mostly because they're either A) ineffective, or B) overly effective (i.e. they can't be read in some CD-ROM drives at all).

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
    8. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by buddachile · · Score: 1

      Yes, the music industry monopoly can only hope for a future format that requires pirates to make analog copies.

      With CD's, no matter what you do, you can't stop motivated pirates from making perfect digital copies. Many CD players have digital outs (spdif via optical or rca outs). Pair that up with a sound card that accepts digital inputs on a computer and voila, you can digitally record a CD in real time. I have done this with excellent results on a CD (which I purchased) that I had trouble ripping in one particular spot!

    9. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't remember whether it was the first Anastacia album or Shakira's "Laundry Service". When my g/f bought them...

      Heh. If you're going to come up with some lame excuse for ripping Anastacia and Shakira albums, you might want to come up with something a bit more plausible than a Slashdotter having a girlfriend!

    10. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by sparkeyjames · · Score: 1

      Speaking of the 1541. I remember some enterprising drive destroyer made
      a program that took control of the drive and then proceeded to vibrate the
      head off the cam stop at a high rate. This produced a tune of sorts. Can't for the life of me
      remember what song it was though. Probably violated the copyright too.

    11. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by lgw · · Score: 1

      Daisy, daisy. Or, at least, that's the one I talked my friend into trying on *his* drive ...

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:Any Linux-proof DRM... by mmj638 · · Score: 1

      Many audio CD players now can play MP3s too; in other words even audio CD players these days 'act' like CD-ROM drives. Any copy protection method designed to allow playback on an audio CD player but not on a CD-ROM drive is likely to affect the ability to play back that CD on a newer model audio CD player which is MP3-capable.

      I bought a CD recently which would not play in my car CD player, because the car CD player can play MP3s as well, and saw a data track on the CD...

  23. pics by towsonu2003 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i'd like to see some picture-demonstration for the less language-savvy.

  24. Not a smart solution by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Gee, all I need to do to avoid the backdoor* software is to stick a piece of tape to the CD and risk the tape coming off and damaging my CDROM drive?

    BTW, when explaining the Sony CD fiasco to non-techie folk, using the term "installs a backdoor" seems to be very effective.

    1. Re:Not a smart solution by towsonu2003 · · Score: 1

      time for you to buy expensive, high quality tapes...

    2. Re:Not a smart solution by 'nother+poster · · Score: 1

      But, what's it matter? CD drives are cheaper than the CDs you play in them nowadays. Besides, it takes what, 5 minutes to slap the new one in. ;)

    3. Re:Not a smart solution by saskboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right that the tape is a bad idea. If someone does try it though, at least put a balancing slice on the opposite side of the disc. You don't know strange and loud until a CD EXPLODES in your CDROM drive. I've seen the remaining disc after an explosion, and sand almost has bigger pieces than some of what's left.

      Also in describing the Sony Rootkit problem it's good to mention that the disks are "infected with DRM". The person won't know what DRM is, but it helps to associate it with a bad word like "infection". And in the case of the Sony CDs, it's not overhyping the facts either, so your conscience can remain clear.

      Bottom line is, "these discs are designed to infect a computer with DRM, which breaks Windows, and lets Sony and viruses take over your computer."

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    4. Re:Not a smart solution by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      As long as you follow up and explain that it amounts to "digital restrictor mechanisms", then it sounds like a good idea!

    5. Re:Not a smart solution by plover · · Score: 1
      You are aware, aren't you, that Sony also manufactures CD-ROM drives?

      I wonder who told Gartner about the tape thing?

      --
      John
    6. Re:Not a smart solution by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      BTW, when explaining the Sony CD fiasco to non-techie folk, using the term "installs a backdoor" seems to be very effective.

      Effective at what? Not effective at explaining what the DRM does, since it most certainly doesn't install a backdoor.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    7. Re:Not a smart solution by saskboy · · Score: 1

      " since it most certainly doesn't install a backdoor"

      It installs a gap in Windows = backdoor.

      $sys$you_can't_see_this_file is a backdoor attack, just not one that advertises itself on a port or something like that.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    8. Re:Not a smart solution by Scoth · · Score: 1

      A bit OT, but you know what's more fun? Spinning CDs on dremels. The discs spin on up the spindle with a loud whine, followed by a POP! The plastic shrapnel scatters in a rougly disc-shaped fan and the foil media layer scatters in a snow-like cloud. Really quite fun when proper precautions are taken (I did mine in my backyard with nothing fragile nearby, wearing thick clothes and my full-face racing helmet).

      Alternatively, you can get them spun up, but instead of over spinning them you can tip them onto the floor. Sometimes they'll explode upon impact, other times they'll go skittering across the floor and bounce off the wall and shoot up to the ceiling.

      It might be an interesting "test" of the DRM'd discs too ;)

    9. Re:Not a smart solution by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. A backdoor is by definition something that allows access to a system. That's the "door" part. Otherwise, "attrib +h" would be a backdoor.

      Wikipedia
      Jargon File

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    10. Re:Not a smart solution by Professr3 · · Score: 1

      It is a back door, in the sense that they have to get past the guard dogs and watchtowers before using it.

    11. Re:Not a smart solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, "infected with DRM" isn't good enough. It sounds like it is accidental, and, really, the infection is of your machine.

      Try "Sony intentionally infected these discs with DRM".

    12. Re:Not a smart solution by saskboy · · Score: 1

      "Otherwise, "attrib +h" would be a backdoor."

      Maybe it is too then, except that current security products and the OS knows to look for files with a "hidden" attribute. Because I consider a something that modifies a file so that it is hidden from the Operating System to be a pretty darn good hidden back door when a virus scanner can't even detect the file's presence. It indirectly provides hidden access to a system if the file that is hidden is malicious and is executed. After all the point of a backdoor is that it is an access technique that isn't detected, guarded against, or wanted. The Sony modification meets those criteria.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    13. Re:Not a smart solution by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      Your anti-Sony crusade will be much more effective if you stop making shit up. Hiding files on someone else's machine doesn't meet anyone's definition of a backdoor.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    14. Re:Not a smart solution by flosofl · · Score: 1

      [I'm assuming you're talking about the rootkit installed by the CD - NOT the removal patch]
      The Sony modification meets those criteria.

      Except for the whole access thing. The DRM software on the CD is malware. It is in no way a back-door. Just because something is hidden does not make it a back-door. It is more accurate to just call it malware.

      access technique that isn't detected, guarded against, or wanted

      What access technique are you talking about? An "access technique" is not installing something in an undetectable manner. An "access technique" is a methodology used to get into a system. Telnet is an access technique. SSH is an access technique. Using netcat to attach to a BackOrifice port (37337 or 12345 - how clever) is an access technique. Install a rootkit with no network listeners or even creating a dummy account is not an access technique. How am I able to use this rootkit to access a system that has it installed? How is Sony able to access a system with this rootkit installed?

      Their removal patch, on the other hand, will allow web sites to arbitrarily install software. That will permit the installation of a malicious software remotely. That, my friend, is a backdoor. Not the original rootkit.

      --
      "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
    15. Re:Not a smart solution by askegg · · Score: 1

      Mythbusted. Not convinced? Ask them.

      --
      I don't make predictions, and I never will.
    16. Re:Not a smart solution by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
      You're right that the tape is a bad idea. If someone does try it though, at least put a balancing slice on the opposite side of the disc. You don't know strange and loud until a CD EXPLODES in your CDROM drive. I've seen the remaining disc after an explosion, and sand almost has bigger pieces than some of what's left.
      Just don't rip the disc at 52x and you'll be fine.
    17. Re:Not a smart solution by Net_Wakker · · Score: 1
      The person won't know what DRM is

      Always explain it as Digital Restriction Management. It restricts the way you get to use your CD's, DVD's, computer, etc. When put in those terms, people tend to understand that DRM == EVIL.
    18. Re:Not a smart solution by saskboy · · Score: 1

      "How is Sony able to access a system with this rootkit installed? "

      Aren't there assertions out there that this spyware phones home? If so it has a network connection, and could possibly be exploited that way. Just because there's no remotely exploitable code available yet, doesn't mean someone isn't working on it ;-)

      I do understand the difference between something that can be contacted through a port though, and something that simply makes the system less secure. That's why I followed up my original post by saying it "indirectly" offers a backdoor, since I'm positive there will be spyware and viruses using the rootkit to hide from scanners and offer ports.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    19. Re:Not a smart solution by saskboy · · Score: 1

      Are you saying you don't believe me that I've seen a shattered CD inside a CDROM drive? I didn't save the shards and flakes, but I assure you it can happen.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    20. Re:Not a smart solution by askegg · · Score: 1

      No I believe you, but I don't think putting a little bit of sticky tape on a CD will cause it to explode - unless the CD suspect in the first place, and that's the catch. People hear of something happening once somewhere in the world and assume the risks are real and consequences severe. The reality is that it does not happen very often, even when you try...

      --
      I don't make predictions, and I never will.
  25. If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by archiereed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 2003 some of the HP Labs researchers looked at the related issues and published a paper titled: "If Piracy is the Problem, Is DRM the Answer?" http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2003/HPL-2003-11 0.pdf

    You might find the white paper interesting if you've not read it before. This caused quite a stir when it was released, both inside and outside HP, and is still quite relevent in light of the Sony issue. This provides an counterpoint even inside HP where we try to maintain some form of management across all the issues.

    The conclusion reads:

    "We pointed out that unauthorized use and unauthorized acquisition are two aspects of piracy. A key concept is how licenses are bound to content. We saw that various kinds of DRM technology address these issues in very different ways, but that all of them have some kind of flaw that make it highly unlikely that they will be able to solve the problem of piracy. The real problem with piracy is that it takes only a small fraction of users who are capable of dissociating licenses from content to make managed content available to a significant fraction of users in unmanaged form.

    We explored the concept of draconian DRM in which devices that handle managed content do not handle unmanaged content at all. Draconian DRM could potentially be effective at eliminating piracy if it were ubiquitously adopted, but introduces a new problem of how to handle public content.

    Our conclusion is that currently proposed technical measures will not be able to completely stop the illegitimate distribution of pirated content. We believe that content producers must take steps to compete with the piracy as an alternative."

    1. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by Orrin+Bloquy · · Score: 0

      I believe the official response from record labels to this report was:

      "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA"

      --
      "Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on /. and I must look smart."
    2. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by schwaang · · Score: 1
      That is pretty interesting. But I think the RIAA may have read it too:
      The real problem with piracy is that it takes only a small fraction of users who are capable of dissociating licenses from content to make managed content available to a significant fraction of users in unmanaged form.

      Haven't they effectively addressed that by putting the fear of god in the mass of downloaders? By suing a just-large-enough sampling of mothers of adolescent p2p-ers, now all of us are afraid of getting caught downloading content that has been "dissociated" from it license.

      Granted, that approach may backfire on them over time, just like this rootkit PR disaster.
    3. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by plover · · Score: 2, Informative
      Yeah, it's long been known as the BORE problem: Break Once, Run Everywhere. It's as old as copy-protection itself.

      DRM in any form drives a certain percentage of consumers away from the product. Assuming demand is a constant, the more onerous the burden the fewer legitimate customers will put up with the restrictions, driving otherwise legitimate consumers to piracy just to obtain ease-of-use. It's common sense, and has been known since the Apple ][ days.

      Cryptography ultimately cannot help the DRM makers, either. The decoding equipment must be by nature installed in a hostile environment (the end-users equipment.) And there is nothing that can be distributed that can't be reverse engineered. It may take specialized scientific lab equipment, but once it's broken, it's forever broken. It's BORE writ large.

      In today's adversarial DRM / anti-DRM world, any DRM immediately inspires a certain segment of the population to defeat it. Some of them do so for profit: illicit reselling of satellite TV decoder cards, for example. Others do so for convenience: many choose to download media files for playing on their iPods instead of going through the hassle of ripping their own CDs or DVDs. The problem is that if you drive a legitimate paying consumer away even once and they discover the "free" world of media sharing, they're not likely to come back and spend money for another piece of legitimate media.

      --
      John
    4. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by J.+Random+Luser · · Score: 1

      We believe that content producers must take steps to compete with the piracy as an alternative

      Remember the outcry when photocopiers became commonplace? Print On Demand is cheaper than photocopy, and those authors and publishers savvy enough to embrace POD now enjoy the advantages of reduced distribution and inventory costs.

      When desktop CD burners became commonplace there were tantalising rumors that we could go to our local record store and buy a custom compilation from tracks off the store's Master Discs. Sorry, I must live in the wrong hemisphere. I haven't seen one of those stores anywhere... Maybe the **AA will eventually get a clue, I just hope I'm still around to see it.

    5. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by wrygrin · · Score: 1

      > Our conclusion is that currently proposed technical
      > measures will not be able to completely stop the
      > illegitimate distribution of pirated content.
      > We believe that content producers must take steps
      > to compete with the piracy as an alternative.

      The way i see it, the business of content producers is based in mediating communications in ways that are becoming outdated, and specifically that have scaling economies that are being dwarfed by contemporary technologies. They have three options:

          1. Hang on to the old ways, instituting measures that prevent
            realizing the benefits of the new ways. Aka, become Part Of
            The Problem, generally leading to option 2.
          2. Die out.
          3. Fundamentally reorient/retool.

      I gather that twentieth century steel manufacturers in the US demonstrated the sheer power of obstinate arrogance to decimate a nation's industry. I'll be that would be dwarfed by the damage the honchos in the established recording/media industry could do if they continue to dig in their heels.

      And i have to admit, it's probably monumentally easier to say/see this than it would be if my livelihood was based in the old ways...

      --
      everything leaks
    6. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      The problem is that if you drive a legitimate paying consumer away even once and they discover the "free" world of media sharing, they're not likely to come back and spend money for another piece of legitimate media.

      I don't agree with that last statement. I would reword it as:

      The problem is that if you drive a legitimate paying customer away from heavy handed business practices and they discover a world that is more Free, they are not likely to come back and purchase another product from you. That is why many of us use nearly exclusively FOSS at work and at home.

      However, this does not mean that people won't be willing to pay for music. They just won't both pay for music and be willing to be treated as a criminal for doing so.

      I know many people who want to buy CD's and simply don't because they don't want to give the RIAA some of their money. Some of these people use P2P music sharing software, but many more simply opt out of the RIAA world and invest only in Indie bands with labels that they own.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    7. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by plover · · Score: 1
      However, this does not mean that people won't be willing to pay for music. They just won't both pay for music and be willing to be treated as a criminal for doing so.

      Thank you, that is exactly what I was trying to express. The problem I had was trying to word more into it, but gave up when the ideas became too complex for a single statement.

      Some offended by Sony's action will understand that this was a Sony / BMG problem, and will never purchase music from them again. Others will hear the RIAA chairman's statements exculpating Sony and recognize that DRM is an RIAA problem, and will no longer buy from RIAA member labels. But most people don't associate their favorite artists with specific labels. So most negative reactions will be more simplistic: "Oh, it's the record companies that are treating me like a criminal, so I will not buy any more music. I will just download everything. Period." They won't seek out indie labels or bands -- they still want their Aerosmith and Brittany Spears albums. But they are now unwilling to put up with the sh!t that comes with owning one, especially since P2P networks don't deliver the same problems.

      Finally, some will blame all of Sony, not just the record label but also the electronics giant who is constantly selling DRM-encrusted hardware.

      I'm writing in gross generalizations here. Obviously the most interested people are going to be the most precise in their reactions. But interested people make up less than 1% of the market. Traditional boycotts only have an effect when they dramatically involve financially significant sections of the customer base. What I've described above amounts to a defacto boycott that actually began a few years ago. What's most insidious is the RIAA has bemoaned this decline in sales as "evidence" of piracy, while the more honest answer is above: they have driven away their best customers by employing DRM and high-profile lawsuits. But because of BORE and P2P, these people will never return with their wallets until the industry is different.

      --
      John
    8. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      This is exactly why we need to help educate people to the ramifications here.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    9. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by plover · · Score: 1
      Actually, I think we'd all be better served if we just educated the RIAA. They'd be better off, too, because if they found the way to not make us all mad, perhaps they'd see sales return. But it simply may be too late for that.

      I also don't believe educating people will help anything. Even after being educated about DRM, etc., most of the people I've talked to are "so what? As long as I can play my CDs, I don't care what they do."

      I even got this reaction from a developer friend who then turned around and couldn't play his new System of a Down disc with Winamp. He said "yeah, some discs don't work in Winamp." He just accepted this! He fired up Windows Media Player and away he went. I eventually got him to be annoyed enough to uninstall Sunncomm's crapwarez DRM code, and magically his disc worked everywhere. It was quite a revelation to him, but it took way too much effort just to educate someone who's already a lot closer to understanding the technical parts of the problem than the average Joe.

      --
      John
    10. Re:If Piracy is the problem, is DRM the solution?? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      I also don't believe educating people will help anything. Even after being educated about DRM, etc., most of the people I've talked to are "so what? As long as I can play my CDs, I don't care what they do."

      Right....

      But two things:

      1) Publically owned corporations (like RIAA members) have *much* more inertia than individual users. If you don't believe me, you probably have never worked in one before.
      2) I am not sure you have to convince most people yet.

      On the second point, the idea is to create a critical mass in an open music industry and then as this becomes more viable, help bring more people across from the world of DRM. As this grows, it will become impossible to maintain the RIAA delusions of piracy hurting their bottom line, and eventually they will have to change.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  26. Snore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is just the sharpie trick in different clothing. It makes the data portion unreadable. Snore.

  27. Gartner is silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gartner believes that it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.

    It will never happen as long as people are able to hear the music being played.

    Now if some marketroid can convince people to purchase music that they *can't* hear, well... if he's that good he deserves our money.

  28. PRM: Penis Rights Management by CyricZ · · Score: 3, Funny

    SONY should develop Penis Rights Management (PRM) systems for male geeks. Applying such a system to one's cock would prevent unauthorized use. Of course, since it is designed by SONY it will most likely work in the complete opposite way: women will be enticed to play with a cock using such technology! All of the geeks and nerds out there who can't get any pussy would benefit from such a device. They might even get laid!

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:PRM: Penis Rights Management by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Applying such a system to one's cock would prevent unauthorized use."

      Kind of like a wedding ring.

      "Of course, since it is designed by SONY it will most likely work in the complete opposite way: women will be enticed to play with a cock using such technology!"

      Kind of like a wedding ring.

    2. Re:PRM: Penis Rights Management by CyricZ · · Score: 2, Funny

      You wear you wedding ring on your cock?

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    3. Re:PRM: Penis Rights Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wedding rings usually do cause shrinkage... Its not a big deal..

    4. Re:PRM: Penis Rights Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How this was moderated as "Funny" is beyond me, unless you happen to have the brain of a brick.

    5. Re:PRM: Penis Rights Management by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      Actually, studies have shown that the most intelligent people find a good penis joke very funny. Chess players, engineers, mathematicians and programmers often ranked such jokes as the funniest possible.

      It was found that rednecks and religious fanatics, often those with the lowest intelligent, did not find a good penis joke funny.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  29. I see why Gartner gets the big bucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the linked site...

    "Gartner has identified one simple technique: The user simply applies a fingernailsized piece of opaque tape to the outer edge of the disc..."

    Man if I hadn't heard about this years ago:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/14/marker_pen s_sticky_tape_crack/

    this really would have been interesting. I guess though that now that Gartner has mentioned it, my PHB will recognize it a an official Magic Quadrant (or whatever bullshit term they use) hack.

  30. Best way to break Sony's DRM by Anti-Trend · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I still maintain that the best way to defeat Sony's DRM is by simply not buying their music. All the fuss and legal backlash is nothing if we are two-faced in our dealings with them, and indeed all big industry. If we're chiding them on the one side for their vicious tactics and financially supporting them on the other, they hear the message loud and clear: we're pushovers. I think that's the answer they were prodding for when they first decided to include XCP on their CDs in the first place.

    --
    Working in a DevOps shop is like playing in a band made up entirely of keytarists.
    1. Re:Best way to break Sony's DRM by TexVex · · Score: 0, Troll

      Wow. A completely ridiculous statement, backed up by equally ridiculous moderation. Do you think that all people are the same, or something? That's the only way "we" could be ambivalent and spineless in the way you discuss.

      --
      Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
    2. Re:Best way to break Sony's DRM by alyandon · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the recording industry will attribute the loss of sales to music piracy and not consumer backlash against invasive DRM.

    3. Re:Best way to break Sony's DRM by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      Best is probably not the word here. Buying their content, ripping it, putting it on every p2p network you know of, then resealing it and returning it to the music store would be the best option. That, or a anti-trust lawsuit would do much more than a 1 individual boycott.

      Don't forget about that resealing comment. People who have already bought these discs likely cannot return them even though they had no idea the disc came with a rootkit.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
  31. Writeable media` by I_Strahd · · Score: 0

    As long as they are using media that is written to in a manner which can be easily accessed, this kind of hack will always occur. If the disc were enclosed and a bit larger than standard CD's and required a seperate player, I think this would aid against this type of hack. However, this is kinda funny. How many people will actually use this hack?

  32. Re:This is a dupe, and it's been done to deathbefo by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Noise heard from Sony HQ:
    "DOH!"

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  33. Sticky tape defeats the DRM copy protection... by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    ...by getting your CD stuck in the player. Since it doesn't spin, the DRM software is vanquished.

    Q: What do you call a CD with sticky tape on it?
    Is it...
    1) a tape drive
    2) a genius workaround
    3) an absolutely horrid waste of time

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  34. You can't spell analyst without... by griffjon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Gartner 2001: (18 July 2001 'Research Management Update: Content Management - Timetable for Digital Rights Management' IGG-07182001-02 written by Michael Calvert; Analytical source: A. Weintraub, from http://www.dcita.gov.au/drm/1981.html:

    Gartner predicts that 2003 will be a critical year for DRM when mainstream content providers begin to understand and identify the value propositions DRM systems can provide. Around this time full production systems will be launched and there will be some settling in technology and standards. This will take some of the 'chaos' and risk out of choosing a particular technology for each functionality area. More importantly, there is likely to be a higher availability of well-integrated and flexible systems from outsourcing services or Application Service Providers (ASP). This could dramatically lower the capital and technical investment required from content owners to implement and utilise a range of DRM, ecommerce, marketing and content techniques. In Gartner's view, it won't be until 2004, or more likely 2005, that revenue models start to mature and mainstream adoption of DRM becomes commonplace.

    By 2006, Gartner sees the DRM market consolidating and a standard rights description language emerging. They identify the factors that will affect the success of the market as:

            * the acceptance by consumers of the regulation of e-content
            * the capability of the industry to establish a 'standard rights' language
            * the cost balance between developing a secure DRM solution and the potential revenue to be gained from DRM secured e-content management


    Not to mention September 2005 (http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=g_sear ch&id=485976):
    "Organizations increasingly need to create, store, retrieve and manage rich media files. Those that successfully cultivate a digital asset management environment can cut their associated operational costs in half."

    --
    Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
    1. Re:You can't spell analyst without... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adding these leftout bits for 2006 predictions:-

      Massive product liability for defective and malicious DRM coupled with class actions and triple damages.

      Prosecution for misleading and deceptive conduct (no scheme will be globally lawful - breaking laws, somewhere, in some state)

      Loss of Reputation and goodwill, punters retaliate by buying low priced substitutes.

      Consumer and lawyer viligance, for getting a piece of the DRM action. Patent and copyright lawsuits make product recall costs look small.

      AntiVirus/Spyware firms collude, and build an honest product that disables covert privacy raids.

      Nasty outbreak of uncontrolled open source software, with no exploitable weaknesses.

  35. Does this bring back memories of floppy drives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't tape the answer to the "locking" feature on floppies in the past? See! Tape has been getting past DRM for years.

  36. Tweak UI = never hold shift again by courtarro · · Score: 2, Informative
    Since it seems the "shift" key trick is in the news again, I'd like to point out the permanent "shift key" that already works on the computers of countless geeks. :

    1. Download TweakUI for XP (or the older version)
    2. Run TweakUI
    3. In the XP version*, look through the tree list on the left and go to My Computer, AutoPlay, Types.
    4. On the right, uncheck "Enable Autoplay for CD and DVD drives"
    5. Click OK and reboot (just for kicks)

    Sure, it's karma whoring, but I get tired of the "shift key" advice when so many of us have moved on. Never worry about evil code on a CD again! If you're particularly paranoid, feel free to deselect the other checkbox as well.

    * if you're using the older version, you'll have to do some searching. I have no reference for it.

    1. Re:Tweak UI = never hold shift again by plams · · Score: 1

      I'd like to point out the permanent "shift key" that already works on the computers of countless geeks.

      I know, I know... tape!

    2. Re:Tweak UI = never hold shift again by pintomp3 · · Score: 1

      Or if you don't feel like installing tweakUI (no reason not to, it's got some great stuff) you can change it in the registry. http://features.engadget.com/entry/323923647827989 2

    3. Re:Tweak UI = never hold shift again by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

      So many others of us have moved on to an OS that doesnt need special 'tweaks' to prevent it from lemmingly following instructions that we dont want it to.

  37. Careful use of a Sharpie marker will work as well. by mmell · · Score: 1

    Without risking FOD.

  38. Unnessecary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You don't need to download TweakUI to do that.

    Go to My Computer, right click on the CD-ROM drive, go to the AutoPlay tab and set your preferences accordingly.

    1. Re:Unnessecary by dbhankins · · Score: 1

      That doesn't work. You can set preferences for different types of content, but none of the types are software-CD-plus-CD-tracks. The "Mixed Content" type just means you have more than one of audio/video/pictures on the disk.

      No matter how you set your preferences on that tab, CDs with a data track that has an autorun.inf file will continue to autoplay.

    2. Re:Unnessecary by ppz003 · · Score: 3, Informative

      For those with XP (and something similar works for 2k)

      Disabling AutoPlay

      I find it best to disable CD or DVD autoplay in XP using either local group policy or, for an enterprise, an Active Directory group policy.

      The local group policy editor method:

                      * Click Start
                      * Click Run
                      * Enter GPEDIT.MSC
                              Group Policy mmc will popup. On left panel:
                      * Double-click Computer Configuration to open submenu
                      * Double-click Administrative Templates to open submenu
                      * Double-click System to open submenu
                      * Double-click Turn autoplay off option which will be near the bottom of the list in the right panel.

      The default is the Not configured . Set it to Enabled.

      This will still allow Windows to regonize when new media is inserted and any icons will appear/update or whatever. You can still right click and choose autoplay, but no CDs or DVDs will autoplay upon insertion. You can also change the setting to do the same with all inserted drives to stop autoplay for usb drives and the like.

    3. Re:Unnessecary by dbhankins · · Score: 2, Informative

      GPEDIT.MSC is not available on up-to-date Windows XP Home installations - my home computer which is at SP2 and fully patched has no GPEDIT.MSC, while my work computer which is at SP1 does have it.

    4. Re:Unnessecary by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      If I do this as the admin user, does it take affect for all of the local users on the system, and any new users that are created?

    5. Re:Unnessecary by courtarro · · Score: 1

      Since there's a danger that some people will prefer this method to the one I posted (grandparent), I have to say that this isn't at all the same thing. "AutoPlay", as it appears in the parent's options, refers to the feature of XP that allows you to choose a program to run when a media is inserted that contains certain types of files (things like Photoshop for photos, Winamp for music, etc). This is not related to the automatic execution of code that is included on the disc itself, which is not disabled if you simply perform the parent's instructions. It also is referred to sometimes as "AutoPlay", or "AutoRun". Either follow my directions to disable autorun/autoplay (the terms are not consistently used) using TweakUI, or the manual registry method, or the GPEDIT.MSC methods mentioned in sibling posts.

  39. Better to short SNE by baomike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    or buy puts.

    1. Re:Better to short SNE by starakurva · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why you gotta use insults, schmuck?

      --
      All you need is lurv.
    2. Re:Better to short SNE by starakurva · · Score: 1

      3 to 5 odds that the one who mods me 0:Troll isn't jewish :)

      --
      All you need is lurv.
    3. Re:Better to short SNE by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Took me a minute to figure you out. Mod this guy +1 funny, not -1 Troll/flamebait.

      Putz is yiddish slang.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:Better to short SNE by NeoThermic · · Score: 1

      Insults? I'm not sure how you think that buying puts is an insult.

      From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Put_option:
      A put option (sometimes simply called a "put") is a financial contract between two parties, the buyer and the seller of the option. The put allows the buyer the right but not the obligation to sell a commodity or financial instrument (the underlying instrument) to the seller of the option at a certain time for a certain price (the strike price). The seller has the obligation to purchase at that strike price, if the buyer does choose to exercise the option.

      NeoThermic

      --
      Use my link above, or to view my server, NeoThermic.com
  40. Handcuffs by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    How long before Microsoft and Sony jointly announce a DRM CD/DVD/-ROM drive that locks a copy to a single player? Or just a version of Windows which won't "Save As..." without a Certificate of Authenticity?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Handcuffs by Chubby_C · · Score: 1
      shhh.... don't give them any ideas

      they already seem to have a team dedicated to giving people the shaft, they need no more help

      --
      - My question is: Can Slashdot be Slashdotted? -
    2. Re:Handcuffs by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Like any other risk to our security, it's safe to assume the bad guys are as smart, and have thought of it themselves, and are working on exploiting it. So we, the good guys, do well to talk about it openly. "Security through obscurity" isn't just a bad crypto policy - it applies to all security.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  41. Tape? by nearlygod · · Score: 1

    Or you could just do what I did and use the tape to hold down the shift key all the time. Of course, the lameness filter nonw prevents me from using my "safe" PC to post to Slashdot. I guess Taco is in the RIAA's pocket, too!

    --
    The Tools Of Ignorance wanna be a tool?
    1. Re:Tape? by grimJester · · Score: 4, Funny

      5adly, in some countries we no longer have the option of using shift keys. 1've managed to come up with some workarounds, though. 7hankfully most sentences can be worked around to start with a letter easily replaced by a number. 3asy 0nce you get the h4ng 0f it. 0f c0urse, 17'5 4 b17 0f 4 h455l3 to le4rn, bu7 y0u g37 u53d t0 17.

  42. Marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally Sony should try selling DRM protected CDs next to non-DRM protected CDs (Same Artist, etc) to get a clear idea of whehter people actually care whether CD buyers care if a CD is DRM protected or not then making it easier to determine how effective their DRM actually has to be. Consider software piracy most software companies give minimal time to protecting their software valuing the use of their software next to the goodwill of people.

  43. Use AnyDVD by madman101 · · Score: 1

    AnyDVD does it better, as well as many other things (disabling ads in DVD's).

  44. Obligatory Simpsons Paraphrase by hahiss · · Score: 3, Funny


    The DRM, they do nothing!

    --
    "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
  45. Floppy Disks by iamlucky13 · · Score: 1

    How about: Jump back 20 years in time and you'll see people circumventing the write protection on floppy disks the exact same way.

    This is pretty clever and I have to wonder if the guy who thought it up was thinking of floppies when he tried it. My first guess was the tape covers the first data that contains the Sony crapware, but how do you also avoid covering the file table? I also wonder if this will make your CD drive rattle a little bit at 52X.

    1. Re:Floppy Disks by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      Floppy disks were write protected by covering the notch with tape. To "circumvent" the write protection, you would remove the tape, or cut a notch. But I can't think of a reason why write protection is something that needs to be circumvented.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    2. Re:Floppy Disks by kinzillah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you could reformat aol disks instead of buying disks.

      --
      Douglas P. Price
    3. Re:Floppy Disks by umeboshi · · Score: 2, Informative

      We used to use notch cutters to circumvent a single sided disk, making it double sided. We also used to always buy ss/dd disks for that purpose, because they were cheaper and just as good as the ds/dd disks that were around. The disk manufacturer had no idea which side of the ss/dd disk would be used (and claim compatibility with various drives), so they dd both sides anyways.

    4. Re:Floppy Disks by Randall_Jones · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, an audio cassette can be copied over by putting tape over the notches on top.

    5. Re:Floppy Disks by saider · · Score: 1


      To make those read-only AOL floppies useful, of course!

      --


      Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
    6. Re:Floppy Disks by vinniedkator · · Score: 1

      When I would run out of 5 1/4 inch Elephant disks and all I had lying around was some floppies with useless software from some vendor, out came the hole punch. A little reformatting and you got yourself another 360k of disk space.

      --
      WARNING: WE HAVE NOT CONDUCTED A FELONY-CONVICTION SEARCH OR FBI SEARCH ON THIS INDIVIDUAL.
    7. Re:Floppy Disks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These young whippersnappers don't have any clue, thanks for teaching them how we did it in the good old times. At the school and uni, we had hundreds of free disks every week. Man, were we proud of these free gifts in the mail. Nobody complained about Compuserve and AOL disks back then, IIRC. Today we just get shiny coasters from AOL that get dull after 3 months of use, pffff.

    8. Re:Floppy Disks by log0n · · Score: 1

      It's actually the inverse of this. A disk was write proteced by having the notch open. To allow writing to the disk - to reuse an AOL disk for example - you covered it with tape. There's a spring mechanism that when inserted into the write protection hole (upon inserting the disk) will prohibit copying.

      Same goes for audio cassettes, VHS tapes, etc.

    9. Re:Floppy Disks by islanduniverse · · Score: 1

      You are referring to the 3 and a bit inch floppies... The old 5 and a bit inch ones were the opposite.... (I think so anyway). Them were the days -- floppy disks were actually floppy!

    10. Re:Floppy Disks by 72beetle · · Score: 1

      We used to use notch cutters to circumvent a single sided disk, making it double sided.

      True, but there was more than that - you also had to make punches in the case for the seek hole, opposite the center spindle from the original. Without that step, the newly liberated back side of the floppy was still useless.

      --
      -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
    11. Re:Floppy Disks by Corey+Hart · · Score: 1

      Back in the 5 1/4" days, when floppies were real floppies...

      I remember modding my 1581 Drive so that the LED that saw through the write-notch... and saved me the effort of using my crumby plastic disk notcher...

      For those of you old enough to remember, that was back in the C64 days.

      --
      ..bright screens for bright people, but now I've got to wear sunglassess.
    12. Re:Floppy Disks by FireBreathingDog · · Score: 1
      Not if you had an Apple II. Woz's drive didn't use the seek hole.

      And the notch indicated READ/WRITE, not read-only as another poster suggested. I remember cutting plenty of notches to make single-sided disks double-sided. I wouldn't have needed to do that if the absence of the notch meant read/write.

    13. Re:Floppy Disks by log0n · · Score: 1

      You know, you're right. I completely forgot 5.25" & 8" both existed (no doubt others too - and I used both 5&8" formats). Now that I'm recalling it, I even had one of those knotchers for 5.25" discs that did allow you to write as well as double side the disk. The mind truly does gloss over painful (i'm officially old!) memories.

      I don't remember AOL doing 5.25" disks though - think that's where I got sidetracked. Prodigy did - in 2 disc sets.

      Ahhh the good ole days.

    14. Re:Floppy Disks by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      This was also true of Commodore machines and many others.
      I went so far as to spend $10 (in mid 80's dollars) to buy a notching tool as it used to cost up to twice as much (IIRC) for the 'double sided' disks.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  46. HISTORY REPEATED!!! by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Oh, this is too funny.

    Many years ago in the Apple ][ era... Lotus 1-2-3 was a great spreadsheet. They invested a huge pile of money to make certain that you could not run their program without possessing the original disk. And try as we may, we couldn't figure out how they did it... there was one sector that was funky, but it didn't make any sense.

    Then, by chance, my neighbor had a nice RANA drive - and it had a 'write protect' button on the face, that you could manually toggle. We stuck a (non-working) copy into the drive to begin the arduous task of single-stepping through the code, and accidentally hit that button while doing so. The result?

    Lotus fired right up!

    They spent way too much money using a laser to create a specific media defect in a specific place; upon startup, the program would attempt to write to that location. If it failed, it knew it was the original. If it succeeded... then there was no defect there, and it was a copy.

    All that time and god-knows-how-much-money they invested in this scheme... only to be defeated by a .01 cent piece of 'write-protect' tape. And now, Sony repeats it with the same level of hubris... that's too funny.

    --

    help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    1. Re:HISTORY REPEATED!!! by David+Off · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A laser? The versions of 123 I owned had a pinhole through the media - used to trash floppy heads.

    2. Re:HISTORY REPEATED!!! by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Heh, save that bad-boy if ya can... you might be able to get your money back :)

      The one we had, there was a little "blip" of a burn-mark on the one side. We had no clue how it was made, until someone published something about in... Byte? Or Nibble that month. On ours, anyway, that side contained the defect; the other side was still writable.

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  47. 3M sez to Sony.. by Mobster · · Score: 2, Funny

    Owned!!!

    --
    ---- You have been programmed by the Illuminati to not see the word ""!
  48. UserFriendly on Sony DRM by Iphtashu+Fitz · · Score: 2, Funny

    UserFriendly has a dig at Sony (as well as Microsoft) in today's strip

  49. I GOT A DIFFERENT APPROACH by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

    WHICH IS STICKING THE TAPE TO MY SHIft key oh darn it got loose again....

    1. Re:I GOT A DIFFERENT APPROACH by KitesWorld · · Score: 1

      Well duh. Tape is so 2004.

      Superglue - that's what you need!

    2. Re:I GOT A DIFFERENT APPROACH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just push the capslock key! It has the same effect!

    3. Re:I GOT A DIFFERENT APPROACH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: Sig.

      Your right! There's nothing worse then bad grammar!

  50. RMS cannot be defeated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Indeed, these scenarios show just how artificial restrictions on knowledge and information are. It is impossible to try to make such an inherently abundant resource scarce, in order to derive profit."

    And that folks is the death knell for open source and programming as a career you just heard.

    Remember the house/apartment that programmers live in as an "inherently abundant resource". The food they consume is an "inherently abundant resource", and the electricity/heating oil/gas is an "inherently abundant resource". Therefore it stands to reason that all the code they produce is likewise an "inherently abundant resource". However the nice thing is that this "inherently abundant resource" issue works for others as well. So there's no point in imposing an "artificial restrictions on knowledge and information" by hiring an OSS programmer over doing it yourself.

    1. Re:RMS cannot be defeated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir, you are fucking stupid.

  51. For the attention of Mr. Robert Malda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Dear Sir,

    I am a legal representative of Sony BMG. My client has instructed me to inform you that your site contains information that enables people to overcome their copy protection system, effectively enabling breach of their copyright. As I am sure you are aware, this is in violation of the DMCA act, and I must insist on the behalf of my client that you remove the offending page from your site pending further correspondence with us. My client fully intends to pursue this matter to the full extent that the law allows, so I advise you contact your own legal representative and provide them with a copy of this letter.

    Lots of love,
    Evil Lawyer Scum
    XXXXXX

  52. Also in the news. by christian.elliott · · Score: 0

    RIAA retaliates with a request for sticky-tape legislation. 3M added to President Bush's "Axis of Evil".

  53. Day Late, Dollar Short by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    Jeez, I posted about this early yesterday: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168923&cid=140 82164 and the original story was in the mainstream news close to two days ago. You're slipping /.

    Maybe wipe the xbox 360 hype from your eyes for a couple minutes and realize that there is a whole world out there besides 40 360 stories in a week.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  54. FRAUD !!! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In addition to everything else Sony is being sued over I wish they'd add Fraud to the list.

    People buy CDs to get the best 44.1Kbs uncompressed audio usually available for purchase. Yet the DRM'd versions are highly compressed audio files (hence things like the illegally included LAME decoder in the XCP package) where true quality is sacraficed in order to achieve compression levels allowing it to be sandwiched onto a standard CD.

    Some very fine audio chips and speakers are available for computers these days, and certainly some people use their computers as their primary audio system. Yet were on the packaging, or EULA (an astonishing concept for a music CD in and of itself), does it tell you that you'll receive inferior quality playback when played on your computer. How many people believe that the DRM'd discs are actually playing back the .WAV files, instead of WMA or other crap files? It's fraud to not inform consumers that even after they agree to the DRM that they'll receive degraded audio as a result -- and Sony should have to pay for that as well!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:FRAUD !!! by ohwell · · Score: 1

      normal cd players can't play wma!

    2. Re:FRAUD !!! by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

      No, only if you use the crap software included for crap operating systems. If you either use a non crap OS (or some non-crap software on the crap OS, whilst avoiding the CD from being recognized as a data CD and allowing it to install crap drivers that prevent this) to directly access the same tracks that a standard standlone CD player would access, then you do in fact get the same 44.1k digital audio data that a standalone player would get.

    3. Re:FRAUD !!! by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      People buy CDs to get the best 44.1Kbs uncompressed audio usually available for purchase. Yet the DRM'd versions are highly compressed audio files (hence things like the illegally included LAME decoder in the XCP package) where true quality is sacraficed in order to achieve compression levels allowing it to be sandwiched onto a standard CD.

      I have no first hand knowledge of this, but I don't believe this is true.

      If the "CD"s were not 16bit/44.1 kHz sample rate (not Kbs) PCM data on the disks that had a table of contents and tracked normally, then they would not play on regular CD players or basically any other type of machine other than a Windows box, because the rootkit was a Windows specific "feature" that was unaffected on other systems.

      I believe this is absolutely false.

    4. Re:FRAUD !!! by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Why in the HELL is this modded up? This guy wears tinfoil hats and sees black helicopters!
      If it were anything other than standard CD audio, it wouldn't play in a normal CD player. The DRM'd versions aren't compressed with LAME. How could they be played then? Or WMA? The parent is smoking some serious crack.

    5. Re:FRAUD !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it's worse than that. A Red Book standard CD-ROM has a whole set of redundant data as a preventative measure to deal with damage that will inevitably occur to the disc over time. With this redundancy, it is possible for players to reconstruct the original data, or at least approximate it, even if some of the data is unreadable. This makes CD-ROMs a robust and reliable format (most of the time).

      Enter copy protection. Some brilliant vendor out there (not First4Internet's XCP) decided to introduce bogus data into the error checking that causes problems for simplistic ripping software and drives on computers, but usually will still manage to work on ordinary CD players.

      And there's the problem: 1) some players still have compatibility problems, and 2) even if they work, hypothetically, the error correction on these discs has been intentionally compromised/corrupted. I don't know of any studies, but it seems obvious to me that this will make such discs much more prone to skipping and damage over time than real CDs. In other words, even if at full, uncompressed sampling, some copy protected discs are also degraded quality -- or soon will be when that error correction data is needed due to scratches or other wear-and-tear. Basically, they are selling intentionally defective discs!

      It isn't quite "fraud", because they do not label these discs as genuine Compact Discs in the "Red Book" sense with the official logo, but, yeah, it probably isn't what the customer is expecting either, so it is borderline.

      Some schemes do this, some don't. My solution is simple: not to buy any discs with "copy protection", because I don't *really* know what it is I am buying -- it is certainly not a Compact Disc Digital Audio product, anyway.

      I suppose it is a matter of informing the consumer. Maybe if vendors were forced to put a prominent label saying "This is NOT a Compact Disc", not merely the cryptic "copy protected" logo, or if real discs were brightly labelled "GENUINE CD", or the copy protected ones were filed differently in the store, shoppers would notice more easily.

    6. Re:FRAUD !!! by SilentTristero · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately you simply didn't understand the OP's point. Many DRMed CDs include the original audio tracks as standard redbook audio, AND highly-compressed audio files in a separate session visible only to CDROM drives (not CD audio drives) at the end (outside) of the disc. When played on a PC, the DRM software forces the machine to only play the compressed files from the second session on the disc, not the original uncompressed audio tracks. They generally get hidden by the DRM driver somehow.

    7. Re:FRAUD !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, there two copies of the songs, one is WMA (highly compresseD) which the DRM software plays on a PC. The other is CD audio which however is NOT accessible if you install the DRM (since it's rippable).

      So the guy is absolutely correct.

    8. Re:FRAUD !!! by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately you simply didn't understand the OP's point. Many DRMed CDs include the original audio tracks as standard redbook audio, AND highly-compressed audio files in a separate session visible only to CDROM drives (not CD audio drives) at the end (outside) of the disc.

      It wasn't the point I didn't understand, it was the facts.

      Wow. I didn't realize things have gotten that bad for listening to music.

    9. Re:FRAUD !!! by SilentTristero · · Score: 1

      Yup. I only buy from emusic anymore.

    10. Re:FRAUD !!! by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      This isn't fraud unless it specifically says on the disk that it is 44.1Kbs uncompressed audio (I guess the CD symbol might entail this [although I doubt it] so then it would be fraud. Also, in response to People buy CDs to get the best 44.1Kbs uncompressed audio usually available for purchase No, they don't. People buy CDs to listen to music.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
    11. Re:FRAUD !!! by slackmaster2000 · · Score: 1

      Many types of "enhanced CDs" have been around for a long time now, and contain both audio that will play on a standard CD player, and data that can be read by your computer. There have been numerous approaches: mixed mode, blue book/cd plus, etc.

      It would be quite possible for your computer to play back pre-compressed versions with DRM protection without your knowledge, given proper OS and/or player support. Hence this entire discussion....

  55. 2nd time a tape remove sony protection by MiliusXP · · Score: 1
    Remember some years ago, a copy protected CD from Sony was removed with a marker pen or a tape. This CD was a CD from Celine Dion. I found an old article about this at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/14/marker_pen s_sticky_tape_crack/
    Marker pens, sticky tape crack music CD protection
    Next, how to rip CDs with an arc welder
    By John Leyden
    Published Tuesday 14th May 2002 13:09 GMT
  56. And in more news... by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 4, Funny

    RIAA was forced to sue itself today, as some smartass found a way to use a "sticky" mailing label that was included with one of their subpeonas, to circumvent the Sony Digital Rights Restriction kit.

    --

    help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  57. DRM will NEVER work. by Pedrito · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Gartner believes that it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.

    As long as it must be playable in a standalone CD Player? As long as media must be visible or audible, DRM will never work. It might for a while, but people are always going to figure a way around it. I've argued this over and over. The software industry which, let's face it, has been at this copy protection thing a lot longer than the music industry and has quite a bit more specialization in it, still hasn't come up with a solution that works for software. What makes the music industry think it will succeed where this industry has repeatedly failed?

    The software industry has managed to survive, despite rampant piracy. M$ has become enormous, despite the rampant piracy of Windows and every app they produce. The music industry just has to bite the bullet, accept that piracy is going to happen, but for God's sake, stop treating all your customers like criminals. All that will achieve is alienation and it will eventually lead to their demise when someone comes along and offers a competing product without treating the customers like criminals.

    1. Re:DRM will NEVER work. by tepples · · Score: 1

      As long as media must be visible or audible, DRM will never work.

      You're talking about the analog hole, which can be closed through legislation and enforcement.

    2. Re:DRM will NEVER work. by Pedrito · · Score: 1

      You're talking about the analog hole...

      No, I'm not necessarily talking about the analog hole. I'm talking about digital as well. As long as something can play it, someone's going to be able to break it. There's always going to be someone out there who's smarter than their smartest DRM developer. So far, history has shown this to be the case and I don't see any reason this is going to change anytime in the forseeable future.

    3. Re:DRM will NEVER work. by PhilipPeake · · Score: 1

      So where are all the WMA hacks? That has been around for a while and has enough content to make it an interesting target -- such as the copies produced by the Sony DRM. As far as I am aware it has not been broken, and shows no sign of being broken.

    4. Re:DRM will NEVER work. by RetroGeek · · Score: 1

      still hasn't come up with a solution that works for software

      Ever heard of a dongle?

      Yes, it is not a purely s/w solution, but it does prevent use at more than one location at a time.

      --

      - - - - - - - - - - -
      I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
    5. Re:DRM will NEVER work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what percentages of the overall population are we talking about?

      Enough said.

  58. Finally some use for by IdleTime · · Score: 1

    red tape!

    --
    If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
  59. Re:Damn yo - got your... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    This would be a good place to say something insightful, but the headline has me dumbfounded.

    Sticky tape got your tongue?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  60. Yes, IIRC.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    IIRC Sony tried to use a system similar to this some time ago. As well as the normal audio session there was a second data session right at the very outer edge of the disc that was effectively blank. To a multi-session CD or DVD drive, which picked up the outer session first, the disc looked completely blank, as the outer session included no information about the first session (normal multi-session CDs include a TOC for all previous sessions on each session TOC, so that the CD drive knows to look for them). A standard (single-session) audio CD player only picked up the first session, so the disc played correctly. It sounds pretty similar to this new method, and like this one, could be defeated simply by masking the outer session (with tape or a marker pen). The advantage Sony saw with this method was that it was OS independent, as it was entirely hardware based.

  61. 30 pieces of tape! by belly917 · · Score: 1

    30 pieces of tape for 30 cd's or 1 computer with autorun disabled.. hmm... which option is less excessive?

  62. Go one step further... by uqbar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every time you skip on buying a CD because of DRM, write a letter to the artist explaining why. Yes this is work, and in some cases these letters go nowhere (or are just read by label staff). But many groups have their own people reading their fanmail, and in some cases the trend will be noticed by the bands. They will not be happy, and they can add pressure from other angles.

  63. If it can be played by RockModeNick · · Score: 1

    then it can be copied. Music DRM is impossible, period. If any sound is produced, that you can listen to, then it can be routed into a recorder and replicated, near enough perfectly for anyone to care. It's actually silly to even suggest it DRM on music, I'm pretty sure these "music copy protection" patents will be looked at like turn of the century perpetual motion maachine patents.

  64. Missed the boat, but there is still a future... by RingDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    for DRMs. The big issue is that the DRM must be transparent enough to not effect the consumers, but strong enough that it discourages (not prevents) infringement. The best possible solution is at the hardware level. But at this point, with millions of CDs in circulation, you can't alter the hardware and break compatibility with existing disks. The key for the DRM industry is the next medium. CD will always be a weekness though. A high quality unsecured media. In order for DRMs to succed the RIAA/MPAA needs 3 things. A universal secure hardware based DRM (that in itself is a pipe dream), a new medium that offers something better then the current options (ie: Digital downloads and HD/Blue DVDs), and a marketing department that can convince main stream America to move up to the latest greatest.

    The universal hardware DRM is a key. Because if a person doesn't HAVE to break your DRM to move their music from the PC to iPod to home sterio to car sterio to work, they wont. But you need a system that can be run in all of those places, and you need it to be cheap.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  65. Oh the irony... by pmike_bauer · · Score: 1

    The music industry would love to restrict the playing of CDs to stand-alone players.

    However, because stand-alone players are simple and limited, they can not devise an effective system to keep CD media off personal computers.

    Oh the irony!

    --
    I read /. for the (Score:-1, Conservative) comments.
  66. Sony thought so by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sony, I believe, did threaten to sue the guy who revealed the shift key bypass a year or several ago. I suspect the current adverse publicity may have something to do with them not following up with threats against the sticky tape terrorist.

    1. Re:Sony thought so by mobilebuddha · · Score: 1

      Sony suing strategy:

      1) sue the guy giving out the duct tape hack.
      2) sue the guy that posted on a blog about a guy giving out the duct tape hack. (./!) -> he aided in the DMCA violation
      3) sue the ISP that hosted the blog from the guy who made a blog about a guy giving out the duct tape hack. -> they aided in the DMCA violation
      4) sue the backbone carrier that the ISP uses to stay connected to the rest of the net -> they indirectly aided the DMCA violation
      5) sue the computer manufacturer that the backbone carrier is using to provide connectivity to the ISP that host the blogs for the user that reported the duct tape hack. -> they indirectly aided in the DMCA violation
      .
      .
      .
      10) sue everybody.
      11) profit!

    2. Re:Sony thought so by Aeiri · · Score: 1

      Sony, I believe, did threaten to sue the guy who revealed the shift key bypass a year or several ago.

      If I were that guy, I would send them a kind letter that would make the person reading it think, "If I clean that up it doesn't really make a sentence...".

      Noting that the Shift key bypasses AutoRun under Windows, and that Sony's DRM uses AutoRun, BOTH should not be in any way violating ANY laws. If something like that EVER happens, I am leaving this country immediately. If someone asks me why, I won't say a word to them for fear of trademark violation...

      Another work around for all of Sony's DRM is just using Linux... Mark that as "E" for evidence and under "S" for SCO...

    3. Re:Sony thought so by quarx · · Score: 1

      Sony, I believe, did threaten to sue the guy who revealed the shift key bypass
      Therefore Sony is terrorist?

      --
      blue dots across San Francisco http://www.mapjack.com
    4. Re:Sony thought so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they still want to sue the guy, but with the current public backlash I think it's a ... sticky issue :)

  67. AHBPA (Analog Hole Buttplug Act) by tepples · · Score: 1

    What is next will Sony try and outlaw mics and wires?

    Yes.

  68. Does tape also cause dupes? by suitepotato · · Score: 1

    If so, I will be joining the Sony and RIAA action to stop this insidious abuse of tape and joining any action to encourage lawmakers to restrict the use of tape from organizations such as /. for our own good.

    If not, then Sony can go whistle and we'll have to get back to looking for something else to scapegoat because the real reasons certainly ain't being taken seriously. (Some sort of "I'd never read organ I was accepted to edit or publish on" phenomenon it seems...)

    --
    If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
  69. Necessary on Windows 2000 by tepples · · Score: 1

    Go to My Computer, right click on the CD-ROM drive, go to the AutoPlay tab and set your preferences accordingly.

    Only on Windows XP. Users who bought a computer when Windows 2000 was the best available Windows operating system must use TweakUI.

  70. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That makes no sense....

    If 1-2-3 refused to run if it couldn't write to a certain sector of the disk, then how would enabling write-protect change the situation? Surely it would have the same effect, that the particular sector could not be written to and 1-2-3 would still refuse to run?

    Apologies if I missed something, could somebody explain?

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You got it backward: Lotus would not run *unless* it failed to write that spot.

      Copy on ordinary floppy --> write works --> 1-2-3 won't run
      Original disk --> write fails --> 1-2-3 runs
      write-protect disk --> write fails --> .... 1-2-3 runs

    2. Re:Huh? by Lesson+No.+25 · · Score: 1
      You got it backward
      I was about to correct you, but fortunately I turned down my threshold before I did, and realized that you were replying to a message with score 0, not to the OP.
  71. in other news.. by tomcres · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sony VAIOs will now ship without shift keys...

    1. Re:in other news.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, they already shipped mine without a shift key, and caps-lock is not very convenient.

    2. Re:in other news.. by Zerathdune · · Score: 3, Funny
      That would be hilarious. talk about a strain on tech support:

      customer: how do I type captial letters?
      tech support: push the caps lock key when you want to start typing in capital letters, and push it again to stop.
      customer: why doesn't my computer just have a shift key?
      tech support: it's a nessicary measure to prevent piracy.
      customer: huh?

      of course, this would be just another failed DRM scheme, since all you would need to do was hook up an external keyboard. I'd be more willing to do that than trust my dexterity to not block out music when applying tape/marker

      --
      No single raindrop believes that it is responsible for the storm.
    3. Re:in other news.. by dzafez · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      O H N O
        M O R E VAIO F O R A O L _ U S E R S A N D A I M C H A T TE R S???

      freaking hell, i have to put some real lowercase down hee, so slashdot will accept this post.
      this stupit site makes my funnypickingonAOLlusersandidiotchatterspost look a bit like the spam
      for V14GRA I get on a daily basis, but allways have to look up in that stupd junkbox, to have fun.

    4. Re:in other news.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course not, my sony vaio is just fine...

    5. Re:in other news.. by Simon+Garlick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you know the Sony rootkit is not PRE-INSTALLED on your Vaio when you receive it? How do you know that the Sony rootkit is not embedded in hardware on every Sony USB stick, every Sony memory card, every Sony digital camera...?

    6. Re:in other news.. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      How do you know the Sony rootkit is not PRE-INSTALLED on your Vaio when you receive it?

      Some people believe spyware IS installed on every Vaio. Google for tgcmd.exe, if you're interested.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    7. Re:in other news.. by GeffDE · · Score: 1

      ...Unless Sony modified USB keyboard driver so that it didn't bind the Shift key on external keyboards to do anything...

      --
      It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
    8. Re:in other news.. by Zerathdune · · Score: 1

      even, so, you could always just permanently disable autoplay via software.

      --
      No single raindrop believes that it is responsible for the storm.
    9. Re:in other news.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every cable U use has the Sony rootkit between those little wires. Every apple you eat, every.... :O Sony's rootkits everywhere...

  72. Have to run on stand alone CD players... by GeckoX · · Score: 1

    Holy christ, I knew they were messed in the head, but basically whining about having invented something as lucrative as cd's in the first freaking place!

    What the f*@& changed so much that you were happy making billions 10 years ago, but now that you're making more than that, it's not enough and must be abolished to make even more? Wtf?

    Why do we even bother discussing these issues when one side is clearly completely freaking mad as hatters.

    I enjoy my music collection. I like the CD format, and also like digital formats, they work well for me, both of them. Too bad these fat cats don't sell CD's anymore, or they'd be getting some of my money.

    I will NEVER EVER move over to paying for the right to download and listen to a song. Why so many of you support this model is beyond me. Personally, when I buy something, I have some particular expectations on that item. I purchase albums. The radio is for listening to random songs on. It's not _just_ about the music, the package is important, and I'd MUCH rather listen to a solid ALBUM than to pick and choose the only one or two good songs by an artist. (Is an artist that can only put out 1-2 decent songs out of 12 or so really worthy of paying your good money to?)

    Which brings me to this point: Remember taping stuff off the radio? Why do you now pay ITunes for the same?

    Now, what's even more interesting, is that I don't blame the record companies. I BLAME ALL OF YOU THAT SUPPORT THEIR CURRENT MODEL! You've facilitated this new model that has utterly DESTROYED what I grew up knowing and loving. I LOVE my music collection. What kind of emotion can a tiny plastic case that can store billions of bits provide you? Is there not more to it than this?

    If nobody supported this pathetic horrible model, it wouldn't exist. So freaking STOP it already.

    --
    No Comment.
  73. Thanks Slashdot by fury88 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Thanks guys, I submitted this same article yesterday and it was rejected!

    1. Re:Thanks Slashdot by klang · · Score: 1

      Submit it again tomorrow and it will be duped by friday!

  74. Hypercompression by tepples · · Score: 1

    People buy CDs to get the best 44.1 [kHz] uncompressed audio usually available for purchase.

    Popular music nowadays, even on Compact Disc Digital Audio, is hardly "uncompressed". Though there isn't any data reduction applied to the waveform, there's still level compression, in the form of a limiter and a clipper, that takes all the punch out of the sound to make it sound louder on portable CD players that use a cheap op-amp to drive the headphone jack. Google loudness race to learn more.

    1. Re:Hypercompression by MooUK · · Score: 1

      Not quite the same thing, however.

      And compression of the type you mentioned, whilst used to fake loudness in modern recorded music, can be very useful for live performances. Compressing the sound from a vocal mic, where the singer varies their volume from song to song, can be a very good idea to keep levels the same throughout. Compression (and gates) can also be very useful in improving the sound of a bass drum.

      Not that anyone really needs to know that.

    2. Re:Hypercompression by slackmaster2000 · · Score: 1

      Automated volume control is not the same kind of compression as data compression which is not the same kind of compression as air compression or any other kind of compression.

      The dynamics of popular music today are squashed to hell in order to sound "as loud" or "louder" than the competition. Most people perceive greater volume as "better", at least initially. Of course we all know it's not better, it's very fatiguing, and mostly unnecessary (especially considering that radio stations already limit the hell out of everything to begin with). But it's the kind of thing where nobody is going to stick their neck out and back off.

      While you may be correct, I don't believe that it had much to do with portable devices... in fact I think that's backwards. Most portable devices are putting out less power now because of the state of modern popular music, to the point where they don't put out enough volume when playing back older music, for instance. This problem, from my perspective, is relatively new; older walkmans and the first portable CD players seemed to do just fine before things got out of control (widespread sometime in the early 90s from what I recall).

  75. just don't buy CDs.. by tomcres · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't even buy CD's anymore. It's not worth the trouble of wondering what it's going to do to my Windows machine, having to run downstairs to rip it on my Slackware box, or wondering if it's going to play in my DVD player or car stereo. Since I've managed to get to the point where I have enough accessories for my iPod that I can play that anywhere, even in the car, I just buy all my music from iTMS. I've had to buy a couple of things from MSN Music that I couldn't find on iTMS, but I just burn that to CD-R and rip it Apple Lossless and get the same effect. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for me.

  76. Damned Sony by Deagol · · Score: 1
    I rented -- forgive me -- Stealth this past weekend via Redbox. As with all rentals, they are played via Xine on my FreeBSD home entertainment PC. First, I rip them w/ vobcopy, then I watch them.

    Lately, I've been having trouble with a good percentage of DVDs from them. At first I thought it was due to the rotten local kids trashing the DVDs. But this DVD was *perfect* -- no scratches or anything. But vobcopy just barfs on it.

    So I googled and found that Sony uses something called "ARccOS" as protection scheme -- intentionlally using defective sectors (a la the old DOS floppy days). I guess the new Windows-based copy programs get around it, but it seems I'm stuck.

    Sure enough, Stealth is a Sony DVD. So back it went. If I gave a shit, I'd pitch a fit and try to get my money back (all $1.07 of it). Maybe I'll just quit renting from Redbox, or maybe I'll check to try and avoid titles by Sony now.

    Anyone using a non-Windows platform able to get around ARccOS?

  77. Sony is a "serial DRM offender". by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ed Foster provides more information that allows us to make a "behavioral profile of Sony":

    Sony has other DRM software. Here are quotes:

    MediaMax also "phones home" every time you play a protected CD with a code identifying what music you're listening to.

    ... before users can even say yes or no to accepting the Sony EULA, MediaMax has already installed a dozen files on their hard drive and started running the copy protection code. The files remain even if the user rejects the EULA, and the Sony CDs provide no option for uninstalling the files at a later date.

    ... an e-commerce revenue generation "feature of dynamic on-line and off-line banner ads. Generate revenue or added value through the placement of 3rd party dynamic, interactive ads that can be changed at any time by the content owner."

    Ed Foster says Sony management has a "scum" profile. Quote: OK, so let's see what we've got here. A company that seems bent on sneaking files onto unsuspecting users' computers, pretending they've gotten permission to do so from a vaguely-worded EULA, transmitting a constant stream of usage information back to their servers, and using that information for who-knows-what revenue generating opportunities. Does this sound like a familiar profile to you? Of course, it's the profile of all the spyware/adware scum that have come very close to destroying the Internet just to make a few bucks peddling their trash.

    Issues that remain concerning Sony's rootkit software and other DRM software:

    As is shown by Ed Foster's analysis linked above, attacking customer computers seems to be the kind of thing that is part of the Sony corporate culture. There has been no apology, and Sony management makes statements giving the impression they intend to continue infecting customer computers.

    A music retail store spokesman said that Sony's rootkit attack has become public just before Christmas. Customers can easily choose some other gift now that they are scared about computer attacks. Sony's attack has hurt the entire music industry, not just Sony. Also, the damage will continue after Christmas.

    Few people are technically knowledgeable. The Sony rootkit CDs will be causing problems for many, many years, as they are traded or borrowed or sold to thrift stores.

    The number of computers already corrupted by the Sony rootkit is probably far larger than the 500,000 quoted in articles about the Sony attack. That number is just the number of Domain Name Servers that show evidence that a computer has tried to contact the Sony phone home address. The average server would almost certainly service more than one corrupted computer.

    Following Microsoft's lead years ago, some businesses treat all their customers as crooks so that they can stop a few.

    1. Re:Sony is a "serial DRM offender". by wintermute740 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "A music retail store spokesman said that Sony's rootkit attack has become public just before Christmas. Customers can easily choose some other gift now that they are scared about computer attacks. Sony's attack has hurt the entire music industry, not just Sony. Also, the damage will continue after Christmas. "

      Has anyone from the RIAA weighed in on this fiasco? Not that I'm buying anything from them ever again, but it would be interesting if they did the right thing and came out publicly against Sony. I know it's not gonna happen, but it would still be interesting nonetheless :)

  78. Was never about preventing piracy by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DRM schemes such as XCP aren't about preventing piracy anyway, which is why it's okay that it's so easily defeated. Instead, today's DRM schemes are about indoctrinating the public, getting them so used to putting up with DRM that we won't complain loudly enough when the ultimate home invasion occurs - that is, when we all switch to digital TV, and their DRM finally puts a nail in the coffin of VCRs, DVRs, and that pesky Betamax decision.

  79. Wow? by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

    Ugh? Gartner making sense? Oh well, it is bloody obvious what they are saying of course..

  80. New Product by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    I see a market niche waiting to be filled:
    The Shaft Key

    Consider it an 'upgrade' to your shift key
    Not only is it DMCA compatible, but you can give the RIAA
    the "Shaft" everytime you put a CD into your computer /zing

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  81. Darn by johnty · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now we have to change from a marker to sticky tape... soon they'll probably make us get white-out as well to circumvent the next generation of copy protection...

    I think sony has a secret alliance with office supply manufacturers - the losses in copyright material will be offset by increased furniture sales... :P

    --
    I am unique, just like you, and you, and you...
  82. Re:And in related news - by vern4of7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the gartner report, the authors suggested two very disturbing ideas, no stand alone players and DRM installed, in all hardware pc. Failing this, or additionally, it is suggested that the RIAA go the legislative route to solving this problem. Given the that it is pretty clear, that they can not prevent technology from moving forward, I am sure that they redouble their efforts on a DMCAII.

    It has been mentioned here before but the purpose of the government is not to save dying business models but to incourage innovation and jobs. The history of the 20th century is littered with businesses that have gone by the way side, telegraph, gas lighting, teletype machines are just a few. I am not one to argue that information is free but a new model is being forced upon the music/movie industry and hiring lawyers/lobbiest is not going to make the problem go away.

    ---
    four industries that hate their customers: the airlines, the telephone companies, the music and movie.

  83. Skip the CD condom! by BYTEBuG · · Score: 3, Funny

    Heck, I've been using a green marker around the edge of my CDs since the '80s. Softens those strident "1" bits (makes 'em less assertive) and rounds out the "0" bits (so they're rounder, like "o"). Sounds better, and no DRM either!

  84. If you can play it, you can copy it by glarbex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really fail to understand what anyone hopes to achieve by any form of copy protection...

    As far as I can tell, the only form of copy protection that can hope to work against any low-level data extraction tool is one that involves partially invalid data or unreadable regions. And even then, you can do a straight 1:1 copy, and whenever it starts having read errors, put a 0 or something in those bytes and skip them. That is easily achieved using a utility like dd. In many cases, you can also read the disc in a virtual PC (e.g. VMware), and save the audio output to a disk file - and then delete the virtual PC in case of malware installed by the CD.

    Unless the disc is in a proprietary format which can only be read by a specific player, which has no standard output connections, you can copy anything that you can play, simply by plugging the output of whatever you use to play it into the line-in on your PC. If they somehow prevent that, you can still record anything using a microphone, as long as you can somehow get sound waves out of it.

    Also, is it really right to try and stop all copying? I absolutely cannot stand any kind of data being held within a single physical object, especially such a fragile one as a CD. I keep most of my CDs backed up onto two locations, but I steadfastly refuse to play the music on more than one location at a time, or share it with a friend. There can't be very many people in the world who would want to rip the musicians off, and not posess the necessary technical skills to bypass copy protection. The slightest hint of copy protection on a CD in my posession prompts me to try and create a "pure" copy, just because I can't stand my data being defiled by such things.

    Certainly, it is stupid to incorporate Windows trojans into the CDs. People trust the music companies; at least, they did. Things like this must really lower people's trust - especially since they try to disuade people from piracy by saying that pirate copies may contain trojans. I will certainly be very reluctant to insert a CD into a Windows computer without the shift key held down in the future.

    1. Re:If you can play it, you can copy it by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      I really fail to understand what anyone hopes to achieve by any form of copy protection...

      I think the hope is to make it sufficiently difficult, time consuming or otherwise unattractive to casually copy the content that few people bother, most either buying it or doing without.

      None of these measures are aimed at the large, organised counterfeiting rings, they are all aimed at the end consumers, to stop people from copying CDs for friends and family, or ripping them and sharing them on P2P networks and the like.

      That's what they hope to achieve. That so far they have largely failed doesn't stop them trying.

  85. Copy Protection impossible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it pretty much a law of nature that you can't give someone the use of information without giving them the information itself? (I'm talking physics, not legality, here.) In other words, a copy-protect scheme ultimately boils down to making it inconvenient to copy, not impossible.

    It seems to me people should quit trying to make information products behave like manufactured ones (copying is only inconvenient there, too!) and think instead about how to make an honest living providing something which is inherently reproducible by both honest and dishonest customers.

  86. I'm not buying CDs again, not safe. by VMaN · · Score: 1

    I don't care what they say (SONY/RIAA) ... They have made it clear they think it is acceptable for them to screw with my computer. I will NEVER feel safe with CDs again, and it would be stupid of me to put my machine at risk. They have given me the gut feeling now that CDs are "tainted" .. (and they are)

    The only solution for me is not to buy CDs, and I am actually fine with that.

    Big nice music collections... at ~20,000 songs can easily be shared between friends, and will hardly ruin anyone in HDD cost. If it is a crime, then howcome I don't feel guilty?

    1. Re:I'm not buying CDs again, not safe. by Hosiah · · Score: 1
      If it is a crime, then how come I don't feel guilty?

      Yeah, I know. I've never downloaded a song in my entire life, through any means. It's all been religiously bought at the store. I never even taped songs off the radio to cassettes, back when that was vogue. But now that being a good, law-abiding citizen carries the risk of trashing my computer which would ruin my whole freaking life, then it's all stealing from here on out, unless the CD's release date is prior to all known DRM technology.

  87. Even better method by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Informative

    Try a Sharpie!

  88. "Infected with DRM" by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    Would it help to pronounce DRM to rhyme with "germ"?

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  89. No. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
    As others have pointed out, there are objects that resemble Compact Discs (but that do not meet the standards and therefore aren't really CDs), but since there's really no such one thing as Linux, there will never be a Linux-specific DRM hack.

    What do I mean? Simple - even if some Linux systems could be infected with DRM, those systems are only one instance of software running on top of a Linux kernel. A kernel with different a different configuration might not be infectable. The same kernel but with a different userland might not be infectable. Unless Linus embeds a code-executing virtual machine (like a JVM or Parrot) inside the kernel, the same kernel + userland running on a different CPU might not be infectable.

    There are just too many variables at play. If Red Hat could be infected with DRM, then switch to Ubuntu. If Ubuntu falls, try Debian on a PowerPC. You get the idea.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  90. Tape vs Tin Foil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this mean that sticky tape is more powerful than tin foil?

  91. They didn't always; sometimes they got it right. by abb3w · · Score: 5, Informative
    An article predicting the current problem (as a minor aside!) was published in Rolling Stone magazine back in 1972; the RIAA has had more than thirty years warning about this.

    Since huge quantities of information can be computer-digitalized and transmitted, music researchers could, for example, swap records over the Net with "essentially perfect fidelity." So much for record stores (in present form). From SPACEWAR: Fanatic Life and Symbolic Death Among the Computer Bums.
    "A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

    --
    //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  92. I think you misunderstand the problem by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    I gather that twentieth century steel manufacturers in the US demonstrated the sheer power of obstinate arrogance to decimate a nation's industry. I'll be that would be dwarfed by the damage the honchos in the established recording/media industry could do if they continue to dig in their heels.

    I do not believe that the RIAA members are hurt by piracy in any material way at the moment. I have indeed seen no evidence that is not better explained by other means including a lack of competitive content and a perception that they are anticonsumer.

    The whole anti-P2P thing is not about cracking down on piracy. It is about cracking down on alternative systems of distributions that artists might buy into in order to compete with them without signing predatory contracts.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:I think you misunderstand the problem by wrygrin · · Score: 1

      > I do not believe that the RIAA members are hurt by piracy
      > in any material way at the moment. I have indeed seen no
      > evidence that is not better explained by other means
      > including a lack of competitive content and a perception
      > that they are anticonsumer.

      Huh?

      The "perception that they are anticonsumer" explains their actions? The executives are sitting around wondering "What can we do to hurt our customers today? Ooh, i got a good one, lets make it harder to play our music!"

      No, there are motives somewhere behind those actions, there always are, misguided or not. You can bet they've been shitting in their pants for a while about the "break once/run everywhere" problem that others mention in this discussion. It's hard to compete with that. (The grateful dead and others realized you're better off leveraging it. Other progressive-thinking artists aiming for modest success, instead of the extremely-rare-but-alluring spectacular wins, and enjoyable art-making and art-sharing head in that direction, also - and head towards some "alternative systems of distribution".)

      Some evidence of this pants-shitting is the vested interests pursuit of one of the most costly commodities around - legislation. Can you say DMCA? They're getting some of what they want - and if it keeps up, that's where the harm is going to come, crippling the nation's ability to compete in the information/media markets of the future. All in a futile effort to try to stop leveraging of new economies in the scaling of communications.

      More generally, "alternative system of distribution" is a way to label many of the aspects of the new world - p2p, open source, permitted bootlegging, podcasts, new publishing models in general - including what will eventually emerge as the legitemized, competitive alternatives to piracy. Until then, some potentially equitable models are going to be outlawed, along with ones that could never be equitable (wishful thinking aside), because the playing field takes time to level. Let us hope that the levelling is allowed to happen sooner, with a bit of foresight, rather than later, with a bunch of heads up^Win the, um, sand.

      --
      everything leaks
    2. Re:I think you misunderstand the problem by Twanfox · · Score: 1

      'perception that they are anticonsumer' helps to explain drops in sales and poor performance in the marketplace. The customers see the organization as hating them and feel less inclined to buy goods and services from them. I know that when someone acts like I'm a criminal from the word go, my interest in funding their continued existance falls through the floor.

  93. Sandpaper trick by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sell him some "special" 00 grit sandpaper and tell him to scrub the labels off of his cds with it. Tell him that it'll make the cd lighter and the sound "clearer".

    Make sure you get a good headstart before he destroys his cd collection.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    1. Re:Sandpaper trick by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      That only works if you sand the CDs under a pyramid.

    2. Re:Sandpaper trick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Sell him some "special" 00 grit sandpaper"
      I prefer one grit - aka a rock...

  94. The problem is... by padrigal · · Score: 1

    Most people who have purchased affected CDs will never know, and never find out, that sticking a bit of tape on the CD will prevent the DRM affecting them.

    This actually doesn't matter, as the vast majority of people won't actually be aware that there's any issue at all, and won't have heard of DRM. If they have heard about DRM from the tech guy at work, they probably won't care too much, figuring that it's only designed to prevent 'criminal' activity, and they're not criminals, so why should they care?

    So, even though the DRM is 'crackable', it doesn't really matter as most people won't ever be aware of this CD mod.

    1. Re:The problem is... by glarbex · · Score: 1

      What about the people who have picked up a nasty trojan from the CD, and have various annoying problems with their computers, typical of viruses?

    2. Re:The problem is... by padrigal · · Score: 1

      The Register seems to think that people just don't care and that Sony has emerged unscathed from this episode: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/22/analysis/

  95. Will Apple kill DRM-free music? by _pruegel_ · · Score: 1

    With the Apple iPod digital music players really started to be popular and buying music in a file format becomes more popular too. The iTunes music store is quite likely to be the most popular internet music store among non-geeks. Could this lead to a larger drop in CD sales? Could this even end CD sales at all? If this happened than the last legal DRM free format would stop to exist. So will Apple kill DRM-free music?

    1. Re:Will Apple kill DRM-free music? by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....So will Apple kill DRM-free music?....

      Apple's DRM, like css and every other scheme ever dreamed up has been broken. If it were up to Apple, there would be no DRM, (remember rip, mix, burn?) but the content creators force Apple to provide so called "protection".

      If they allowed Apple to dispense with the DRM and just use the un-encrypted version of the iTunes audio format, I think the number of downloads from ITMS would not be significantly less.

      After the Sony episode, downloading of free, illegal, most likely malware contaminated files, would likely go down, if consumers could download non-DRM files from a place such as ITMS, rather than from who knows where. So if Apple could convince the content providers to allow them to drop all DRM, the number of iTunes sales may actually increase. There are, I am sure, not a few people, who will not buy DRM encumbered digital goods.

      However, I am not holding my breath for the content creators to see the light for a while yet. Perhaps after Sony and maybe some of the others have been sued for many millions and lost in the courts, the ossified executives in these industries will finally adapt their businesses to and take advantage of the new realities of the digital Internet age.

      --
      All theory is gray
  96. The Suicidal Music Industry by mriker · · Score: 1

    The main reason I no longer purchase music CDs (at all) is I don't want to have to dick around with a CD like this in order to use it the way I see fit. Ironically, the industry's spending so much money and effort on what it thinks is the best way to preserve sales is actually causing it to die. It's rather remarkable that everyone plainly recognizes it except for the industry itself. I'm not complaining, mind you; the sooner the industry self-destructs, the better off music artists will be.

  97. Many computers now illegal by glarbex · · Score: 1

    All computers must now automatically run any Windows executable marked with the Windows autoplay standard on a CD, and avoid any changes made by such program being reversed. It is illegal to disable this feature by any means - shift key, Windows Control Panel, using alternative operating systems (unless they are properly run all autoplay programs with the intended result of the program; wine probably isn't good enough), keeping regular system backups which may be restored to remove the software.
    Microsoft reports that Windows Vista will include a special DRM system which enables CDs to automatically run or install any software without the user knowing.
    Linux and Mac users will have to wait for someone to write a patch which enables this feature, including complete support for Windows executables, and translation of restrictions to native programs.
    Also, a new generation of CD drives capable of detecting tape or pen markings on the disc, and rendering the content unreadable, is expected.

  98. Worth pointing out.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sony is a huge corporation.

    Sure, certain parts of Sony are implementing DRM - and in certain situations, DRM -does- make sense, but having said that, you can also look at the number of products that are released with little or no limitations (PS2, Ericsson, MP3 players, etc.)

    Sony (and other similar entertainment companies) are in a difficult situation (admittedly, partly of their own making) - they have to balance between the rights of the artist, consumer and their own pocketbook.

    At the end of the day, there will always be people who aren't happy, no matter what they do. Yes, they may not be ready for homebrew on the PSP, but they did do the PS2 Linux kit. Step by step, I guess.

    By no means am I sticking up for Sony - but I do find it's all to easy to stand on a soapbox and spout the 'accepted' rhetoric. Alas, in real life, subjects such as these tend to be a bit more complicated than just the standard "sony/ms/big corp sucks".

    Something to think about, I hope anyway.

    1. Re:Worth pointing out.. by ctnp · · Score: 1

      Point taken, anonymous coward, but in this particular situation it really isn't all that complex. Sony made its customer base out to be criminals by default. There's no need to use crappy software to hide DRM when there's already an law (in the US, at least) that makes its illegal to knowingly remove/bypass DRM protection.

      By virtue of them using crappy software, they showed negligence at a minimum and possibly committed a crime at the maximum.

  99. putz and schmuck by daniel23 · · Score: 1

    for those who don't understand Yiddish or - even more misleading - for those who do understand German (where both words have a very different meaning):

    putz
    --
    605413? Yes, it's a prime.
  100. DRM on CD's was planned in the first specs... by Hymer · · Score: 1

    ",,,has not yet demonstrated a workable DRM scheme for music CDs."
    I am sorry to bust your illusions... but the very first CD specification did have a 100% foolproof copy protection scheme... the problem is that nobody in the industry wanted to use it.
    Look at a real CD (not a writable one) and check: there is a barcode just beside the hole (the barcode is now used in the factory). The basic idea was to check the barcode, only a real CD would have a working barcode. Simple and elegant... who screwed up ? the industry itself... why ? too expensive... yes, it is the real answer, the drive manufacturers said that a barcode reader inside the drive would be too expensive.

  101. No, no, no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose exposing a CD to a powerful magnet COULD alter the properties of the substrate in some way, to make the 1's more 1-ier and the 0's more 0-ish.

    You do need to run your CDs over a magnet, it is true. But this makes the 1's LESS 1-ier and the 0's LESS 0-ish. This gives your CDs the more "warm" sound you are looking for.

  102. Re:Damn yo - got your... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    Isn't schizophrenia disconnection from reality?

    I think you're talking about MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder)

    Christmas is coming...a DSM-IV-TR makes the perfect gift. ;)


  103. In a related story. . . by kimvette · · Score: 1

    In a related story, Sony DRM defeats Sony's efforts to gain good PR and convince the public that DRM is a good thing.

    When asked for comment, Sony execs replied "Fair Use? HA! All of our customers are crooks. They have no legitimate reason to rip CDs to MP3s. Our wildly successful ATRAC players proved that consumers prefer closed, DRM-enhanced formats rather than open standards like MP3."

    A known script kiddie was asked for comment on IRC channel "l337_haxx0r5" - he remarked "Sony DRM is teh r0xx0r5!!!11!! It's gr8! Thx 2 them I have 3000 z0mb135!!11!!!"

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  104. whoa! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That was sure a close call! Good lord, what a disaster that could have been!

  105. Unintentional self-revelation by DrVomact · · Score: 1

    It must be a lot of fun to pull your leg, because this guy has been doing a lot of it...

    --
    Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
  106. You read Slashdot too? by jZnat · · Score: 1

    We had these conversations already. I thought this article was a dupe or that some sort of magic had happened since this thread and several others are almost carbon copies of ones from there...

    --
    'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  107. Old trick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Remember when they used to write unreadable corrupted data to the begining of the disk, and you could cover it up with a thin line from your sharpie marker and then be able to copy the disk.

    although they eventually solved the problem with new burning software, I've seen this old trick before.

  108. howcome...? by yakumo.unr · · Score: 1

    This has made it to slashdot, when i thoghut most people knew data tracks can be better plugged using a pen (I don't want tape comming off inside my player ta).

    and the fact that the EFF is now pushing fully ahead with it's lawsuit against Sony has completely missed the news so far http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_11.php#00419 2

  109. draconian drm = DVD (almost) by slickrockpete · · Score: 1
    We explored the concept of draconian DRM in which devices that handle managed content do not handle unmanaged content at all. Draconian DRM could potentially be effective at eliminating piracy if it were ubiquitously adopted, but introduces a new problem of how to handle public content.

    Aren't DVDs an example of draconian drm? The media has DRM and the players enforce it. By licensing the dvd decoding technology they can force all the licensees to enforce the drm. Of course, it is still the case that a savvy pro pirate can defeat the drm and the uninformed user cannot.

    AFAI can tell the movie studios are doing very well with this setup as long as the price point on dvds doesn't get too far ahead of the cost of marketing the pirated copies.

    1. Re:draconian drm = DVD (almost) by Zerathdune · · Score: 1

      no, DVDs don't quite fit. what they're reffering to would be players that refuse to play a home video of your kid's birthday, because it doesn't have DRM. Obviously, this would piss many people off, because of the problem they mention.

      --
      No single raindrop believes that it is responsible for the storm.
  110. Future news Sony/RIAA etal push Congress to ban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To ban all types of tapes and adhesives used in the manufacturing of said products.

  111. Sony: Save yourself some money... by FauxFoe · · Score: 1

    It seems like there are nothing but a bunch of yes-men working on this copy protection. If you can hear music digitally, you can copy it digitally. Save your money and stop trying.

  112. Don't try this - risk breaking the drive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The disc spins on its physical limits (due to the centrifugal effect) in contemporary CD drives. A piece of tape makes the disc unbalanced and when spun unbalanced, the disc may damage the drive.

    1. Re:Don't try this - risk breaking the drive by pclminion · · Score: 1
      The disc spins on its physical limits (due to the centrifugal effect) in contemporary CD drives. A piece of tape makes the disc unbalanced and when spun unbalanced, the disc may damage the drive.

      You're wrong. There are plenty of asymmetrical CDs available -- you can have them cut to practically any shape you want. And you think a little piece of tape is going to cause a problem?

  113. Copy Protection Drilldown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Audio CD Protections, in brief:

    - Zeroth Generation (the Click Generation):

    * Weak Sectors in ATIP: TTR Technologies MusicGuard (never deployed)

    Flat out doesn't work at all, you probably wouldn't even notice they'd done anything. Any Lite-On, BenQ or Plextor wouldn't even skip a beat. Only CD-ROM tested which even gave a damn was a Sony (heh), the drive in the PlayStation 1 to be precise. Didn't get a contract, so TTR partnered with Macrovision, and tried harder. Much harder. Much too hard, in fact.

    * Weak Sectors causing C2 Errors in Audio: TTR Technology/Macrovision SAFEAUDIO (limited deployment), Settec Alpha-Audio D-Type (data type, never deployed)

    Extremely rare, no longer used; the market overwhelmingly rejected it, which is to say, it broke a music exec's speakers. High channel return rate because of obscenely low compatibility, duplicators returning whole batches as bad pressings because they couldn't perform any useful QA on discs deliberately damaged to this extent. Useless. (TTR apparently liquidated.)

    Archiving: Alternate CDFS.VXD tools for Win9x may work, as they interpolate in exactly where SAFEAUDIO puts corruption. Other than that, deliberate damage = not perfectly playable, or rippable. Effectively an analogue medium with huge deliberate noise spikes. Use a mint disc, do the best you can, and high-order-interpolate over the scratches (Adobe Audition or something), just like archiving vinyl.

    - First Generation (The Anti-CD Generation):

    Archiving all first-generation formats merely needs a Good Drive and Good Software with Good Settings. Can be divided into roughly three groups:

    * High Jitter Spike: Cactus Data Shield (classic): CDS-100/CDS-200, First4Internet XCP-Aurora XCP "Red"

    (0'09", insert bad CIRC sector, 1200 weak sector/desync, 2 *blank* sectors with no sync, then start again with normal data.) Intent: Cause a "hiccup" during a burstmode rip which would be absorbed by a CD player's (tiny) buffer. Reality: Any quality drive firmware, buffer, or jitter correction, means you won't even skip a beat. Might slow down a little, but that's all. Now only marketed for internal releases/promos.

    * Malformed TOC/Evil Session with no player: Early Sony key2audio (1.0), Settec Alpha-Audio S-Type (session type), First4Internet XCP-Aurora XCP1

    Bread and butter, it's simple; include a normal or malformed TOC, and sprinkle liberally with a seriously malformed second session, relying on CD-ROMs being multisession and CD players being single session only.

    * Malformed TOC/Evil Session with autorun player: Sony key2audio, SunnComm MediaClòQ

    Differs from the above only in the second session being malformed, but having a valid data track containing a DRMv2 WMA player (or downloader). Players have evil EULAs, and may interfere with ripping while the player is running (although the first version of the key2audio player that appeared actually shifts the session enough to allow flawless ripping while the player is running...!) but as far as known, they don't leave behind malicious software.

    - Second Generation (The Autorun Generation):

    Rate of returns was still high, so Macrovision tried a weaker system with a much higher false negative, but a much lower false positive. Actually caught on; almost no returns. They could actually put the CD logo on these if they wanted.

    * Valid CD-Extra with autorun player: Macrovision CDS-300, Macrovision TotalPlay CD, Alpha-Audio M-Type (main type)

    Player (MS-DRMv2, as usual) interferes with ripping (while it's running) but doesn't seem to leave any malicious software behind. If the autorun isn't run (disable it, or hold SHIFT while inserting CD and be careful in Explorer) or supported, it's a normal CD-Extra. First session is valid Red Book.

    - Third Generat

    1. Re:Copy Protection Drilldown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On some EMI Releases, remember to look for the following on your C:\ drive to identify one of the - Second Generation (The Autorun Generation) protections described above. It's not as friendly as all that after all.

      C:Windows\system32\drivers\sdcplh.sys

  114. Second Method Of Defeating The Copy Protection.... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

    ... is just not to buy any Sony CDs.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  115. Disc Warnings by Kroc · · Score: 1

    Is this why there's all those warnings on cases saying don't put tape on the disc? I wonder if the next DRM can be circumvented using direct sunlight?

    1. Re:Disc Warnings by ctnp · · Score: 1

      Mod parent +1 Funny.

  116. MYTH BUSTERS! by bmalia · · Score: 1

    This whole magnet thing sounds like a job for the Myth Busters!

    --
    There's no place like ~/
  117. Just tell me by Hosiah · · Score: 1

    Tell me this all didn't happen, OK? Tell me this whole Sony fiasco was a story somebody told me when I was stoned.

  118. How about slashdotting the DRM address? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    What address does sony's DRM phone home to?

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  119. The secret's out by bhmit1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    'After more than five years of trying, the recording industry has not yet demonstrated a workable DRM scheme for music CDs. Gartner believes that it will never achieve this goal as long as CDs must be playable by stand-alone CD players.'

    Damn, you weren't supposed to tell them that. This was just starting to get funny.

  120. Never trow 'em away! by lukOh · · Score: 1

    From the article: "That [the tape, ndr] renders "session 2 -- which contains the self-loading DRM software -- unreadable"
    .
    I knew, I knew my '96 no-name OEM crunchy ATAPI CD-ROM reader (w/ a tray!) could still show anybody else it had A Place In The World(tm)

    This story makes me more and more think of some Terminator movie(I confess, might have watched it).
    Are we all going to have a trip to some dusty, post-battle corner of India, one day, to hunt for old Win311 486 laptops with no chance of connecting to anything, to find our way out?

  121. With the music turned out today... by tonedevil · · Score: 1

    something should kill it.

  122. I have an even *better* defense... by Hosiah · · Score: 1
    Don't listen to crappy music. Seriously, that's the crowning hee-haw to this whole donkey-show: I looked over the playlist and, after sighing relief that none of the CDs I owned were on it, looked it over a second time and realized that the ones that were known to me at all were the kind of crap you couldn't get me to take if you chased me down the street with it (disclaimer: OK, maybe the ones I haven't heard of are bravo-terrific, WIBI*?)...and they're worried somebody's going to steal it!

    It's crossed my mind more than once: What if it finally came out that this whole thing was a crocked-up publicity stunt to get their lowest-selling artists some public exposure? It just all reminds me too much of the George Carlin joke about people who are against abortion being the kind of people you wouldn't want to "shpx"** in the first place.

    *Wouldn't It Be Ironic?

    **Rot-13. Rhymes with "luck".

  123. Doesn't matter, still not analog by MemeRot · · Score: 1

    Yes, with a higher resolution audio stream your bits and bytes do more closely resemble an analog curve. But they are not analog, merely a better approximation.

    Many audiophiles refuse to believe this when pointed out to them though.

  124. 3M's "DUCK(tape)ing the law" by tzot · · Score: 1

    Do not confuse 3M's DUCT TAPEs with Python's DUCK TYPEs... although it depends mostly on your accent.

    --
    I speak England very best
  125. How about the other hidden settings? by silicon+not+in+the+v · · Score: 1

    These aren't included in TweakUI, but they are some important settings in Windows 98 (joke)
    http://www.dungeonkeepersdomain.com/PhotoPost/show photo.php?photo=612

    --
    We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
  126. DVD stands for by typical · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was also thinking some one should explain to them what the V stand for in DVD.

    Well, originally the "V" stood for "Video". That presumably made some marketing guy from some DVD Consortium company that made non-video devices unhappy, so it was renamed to "Versitile". After many more dollars spent debating this crucial issue, nobody could agree, so officially the "V" stands for nothing.

    You probably think I'm joking; I assure you, I'm not, sad as it is.

    I once had a boss that kept marketing people off of his back by generating busywork to occupy their time. Every time they had a meeting in which they wanted to influence anything technical, he'd bring up the fact that something lacked a name and emphasized how crucial it was to the product's success that the name be appealing. They'd vanish for a month. It was amazing to see this guy in action.

    Of course, we had to put up with silly names as a result, but we didn't have to deal with technically broken things, so it was worthwhile.

    --
    Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
    1. Re:DVD stands for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm... so maybe Vista won't be that bad afterall!

  127. DRM under Linux by typical · · Score: 1

    You can do DRM in Linux. You add the DRM code to the kernel, sign the kernel, and then use some sort of trusted hardware that checks said signature. It's somewhat dubious as to whether anyone actually wants this in a product (ESR mentioned that perhaps you could use this to avoid someone trying to Trojan your system), but Linux can, theoretically, support TCPA.

    Now, obviously, you can use a system without DRM stuff added. However, if the media is distributed in some form of encrypted format that can only be decrypted with trusted hardware, then theoretically people using Linux without DRM would not have access to the content.

    Trying to restrict people from playing data stored in an unencrypted format like Redbook Audio, however, is not going to work, as you pointed out.

    --
    Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  128. Anybody put the CD in an OSX Box? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went out with the list of malware CD's and found a copy of Celine Dion "on ne changes pas"
    Epic 2 CD set E2K 97736. It has the XCP malware on board.
    The "Compatible With" box says "Ripping: PC Windows Media Player 9.0 Mac OK"

    Put either of the disks in my 10.3.9 Mac and the finder shows two (2) CDs!

    One CD has the AIFF files.
    One CD has the Windows Autorun files and directories with these contents:
    offset.dat
    AUTORUN.EXE /Contents
    VERSION.DAT
    README.HTML /BIN
    AUTORUN.ICO
    AUTORUN.CNF
    AUTORUN.INF
    unicows.dll /Contents has:
    AlbumArt.bmp
    DISC.INI
    eula_english_EN.rtf
    eula_french_FR.rtf
    eula_german_DE.rtf
    eula_italian_IT.rtf
    eula_spanish_ES.rtf
    GO.EXE
    ID.DAT
    INFO.XML /WMA
    XCP.DAT /wma has:
    Autorun.exe
    WMDS.DLL
    WMDS.INI
    WMDST.DAT /BIN has: /BIN/WIN32/
    copydisc.gif
    PLAYER.INI
    copytracks.gif
    PLAYER.EXE /xtras
    data.lst
    and /xtras has:
    ActiveX.x32
    Animated GIF Asset.x32 BINARYXTRA.X32 BUDAPI.X32 Cursor Asset.x32 DirectSound.x32 FileIo.x32 FileXtra4.x32 Flash Asset.x32 Font Asset.x32 Font Xtra.x32 INetURL.x32 JPEG Agent.x32 MacroMix.x32 Mix Services.x32 Mui Dialog.x32 Multiusr.x32 NetFile.x32 NetLingo.x32 QT6Asset.x32 SecureNet Xtra.x32 Sound Control.x32 SwaCmpr.x32 SWADCmpr.x32 SWAStrm.x32 Text Asset.x32 TextXtra.x32 UIHelper.x32 VLIST.X32 XMLParser.x32

  129. Solution... by RoffleTheWaffle · · Score: 1

    I think I know where the RIAA will be turning their attention next in regard to copy protection.

    DRM for office supplies.

  130. Why didn't they sue Microsoft? by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 1

    Really, just read the subject. Go after the big game--sue the guy who _made_ the workaround for your product's protection scheme.

  131. Sure, now you tell me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I paid $2500 for the same damn cord just last week!

  132. Re:They didn't always; sometimes they got it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you, interesting article!!

    This is what I like about slashdot, despite all the editor triplicates etc. But sometimes, really interesting comments pop up!

  133. Tape is the problem! by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    In the 1980s it was cassette tapes; now this! Can anyone think of a single kind of tape that isn't a potential threat to the intellectual property of America's great and prominent corporations? If so, raise a hand. No? OK ... we have our solution, then.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  134. Re:They didn't always; sometimes they got it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An article predicting the current problem (as a minor aside!) was published in Rolling Stone magazine back in 1972; the RIAA has had more than thirty years warning about this.

    Yea 1972 they also predicted colonies on the moon and having flying cars. Hell I think if you read enough nostradumas you can also predict the end of the world.

    Shit like this happens way too often... people making many "predictions" about the future and when by dumb luck one of their 5 Million predictions comes true then it must be ESP or something besides dumb luck.

    Hell I can predict something with 100% certainty.... Life sucks and then you die.

  135. When hand-grips are outlawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You can have my red stapler, when you pry it from my soft, geeky fingers."

    A couple rounds with your right hand, for a month and those fingers will harden right up.

    --
    The "are you a script" word for today is inasmuch

  136. Don't do this! by clambake · · Score: 1

    LET the cd install it's crap, just don't agree to thier EULA... But before you do, make yourself a EULA for your own machine, authorizing you to make unlimited copies of ALL music owned by any company and (put them up FOR SALE) if they write anything to your disk after you have *rejected* thier EULA. Then watch thier CD do exactly that, thus agreeeing to your EULA, and dance for joy know that you legally have the right to redistribute ALL sony music as you see fit, even for profit.

  137. Why on Earth?! by ki85squared · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why on Earth would anyone spend over $100 on one short cable is beyond me.
    I've worked with stage sound for a while now, and I can tell you that we use no cables like these. Most of them are years old and still "primitive", but they still provide professional sound.
    These "special" cables sound like a rip-off to me.

    1. Re:Why on Earth?! by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 1

      These "special" cables sound like a rip-off to me.

      Of course they're a rip-off. How could they NOT be a rip-off, at those prices? What would you have to get for that muchmoney to make your purchase actually worth it? I mean... speaker cables that cost $30,000! Even the $1500 ones are insane.

      --
      Freedom: "I won't!"
  138. 1000 lbs??? by CDWalton · · Score: 1

    Dude, that is so like 1970's. I got the 5,000 lb slab anchoring my shit. NO VIBRATION !!!!!!!!!!

    --
    When the going gets tough, the tough get drunk
  139. EA's Chuck Yeager gamesim story and related rant.. by iamcf13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Back in the 1980's when computer game piracy was at its peak(?) I heard firsthand that copies of this game would deliberately reformat the disk they were on upon detection!

    As with the case of Lotus 1-2-3, a write-protect tab solved that 'problem' and a copy of this once-popular gamesim worked as normal.

    After enough consumer backlash, game copy protection became more subtle or was somehow integrated into the gameplay of the games themselves somehow.

    To this day, the best example of this I know of were the 'launch codes' from another EA hit game STARFLIGHT (I).

    It's a shame Electronic Arts has devolved into a tool of major sports franchises and not as the cutting edge computer game company they used to be
    with such releases like STARFLIGHT, its sequel, and the 2 'CONSTRUCTION SET' gamesims they put out for pinball and music composition....

    Another major copy protect annoyance are the 'gotta-have-the-CD-in-the-drive-at-all-times' kinds of protection -- very lame and potentially destructive to your valuable investment in the CD game itself and CD-ROM drive it is spinning needlessly in....

    The simple solution to all forms of media/IP piracy are low, competitive prices but that would conflict with the corporate duty to make as much profit as (legally?) possible. Because of this, we now live in a world filled with DRM, DMCA violations, and IP copyrights that will likely outlive everybody alive who reads this post.... :(

    The corporate stance of the media industry as a whole is essentially this: Your purchases have worn out and you want them again on 'replacement media' for a small replacement charge? Fsck that! Buy another damn copy at full retail price! (If it's still in print if you're lucky.)

    This happened to me years ago when my cassette tape copy of John William's E. T. The Extra-Terrestrial soundtrack wore out from playing it constantly (and enjoying it). Fortunately(?), I was able to rebuy it again on CD. In a perfect world, the term 'out of print' would be unheard of and licensed media bought could be replaced for just 'materials, shipping, and handling'. But the industry model of artificial scarcity brings with it corporate greed and eventual subsequent consumer dissatisfaction. Notice how the advice nowadays is to wait for 'ultimate edition' DVD releases of favorite movies instead of buying the bare-bones release now and the 'ultimate edition' later if/when it comes out? Perhaps the 'shining' example of this 'atrocity' is the 'two DVD release' of KILL BILL as 'two separate volumes' instead of as one, complete 'set'.

    Touching on DRM for a bit, look at the hypocrisy of USA government/big business persecuting 'DVD Jon' and that guy from Russia that cracked DVD Content Scrambling System and Adobe's protected PDF format respectively. Why is it, due to DMCA, legal to import strong cryptograpy into the USA to protect the secrecy of your own affairs but to reverse-engineer domestically created encryption schemes that 'protect media' for personal uses only is a felony offence worthy of serious fines and jail time? Has society come to the point that human life is so cheap that we can throw them away (in prison for 'minor', non-violent offences) and just make more in 9 months or less so long as the 'precious cash' keeps flowing between big business and big government here in the USA?

    'Twould be nice if the USA copyright system went back to the original 14-year max format established by the Founding Fathers. If that were the case, these and other 'Slashdot Favorite Films' for example would be public domain by now....


    2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)

    Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977)

    Alien (1979)

    Blade Runner (1982)

    E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial (1982)

    Aliens (1986)

    Superman (1978)

    Star Wars (1977)

    The Empire Strikes Back (1980)

    Return Of The Jedi (1983)

    The first six STAR TREK movies (1979,1

  140. Re:Damn yo - got your... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

    The non-ryhme is a joke (which you probably got, but just in case...)
    I first heard it on an old tv show (martin and rollins laugh in??iirc) being recited by the guy that played the professor on Gilligan's Island.

    Mycroft

    --
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  141. Letter To Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I sent this short message to Sony recently:

    Dear Sony,

    I have been a longtime user of your products, ranging from blank VHS tapes, to CDs on your label, to my first portable music player -- a Walkman. I was even looking forward to your company's next videogame console, PlayStation 3.

    However, I can no longer trust your company to provide me with a quality product. I will be buying Xbox 360 instead of PS3, and instead of your music players, ones by Apple or Creative. Further, I will no longer buy Sony CDs or media. The recent DRM rootkit on more than 50 CDs upsets me.

    When I purchase music, I want to be able to put it on my iPod. I want to have the MP3 to listen to in Winamp, and I want to make a copy for backup incase the original is scratched. Unless you plan to replace any CD that is scratched, you must allow these copies to be made or it is unfair to the consumer.

    If your company apologizes to consumers, and fixes the problem, as well as never uses DRM again, I may consider purchasing a Sony product in the future. Otherwise, thanks for the good times of the past, I am sorry that your company has failed the consumer now.

  142. O'Reilly! by kgbspy · · Score: 1
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  143. Green Marker? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    Wow, so there really is a use for a green marker on the edge of a CD!

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Green Marker? by nsayer · · Score: 1

      Not the edge. The bottom, NEAR the edge.

  144. I am an audio engineer... by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

    I am an audio engineer and have a (4 year BS) degree in recording.

    In college I specifically took a class about high-end audio. It was divided into critical listening and "audiophile" topics.

    Essentially there are some differences in technology. ICs DO indeed sound more harsh and shrill than tubes which of course sound warmer but not as "bright". Also the quality of the internal components have an effect as well. This of course is in terms of an analog signal. Once a signal becomes "digital" then unless bits are lost, the components don't really effect the quality of the sound (assuming the D/A converters are not hosed).

    CDs of course sound different than audio. This is primarily due to quantization error in the sampling process. Essentially they are only 16 bits which means 96 (or 98) dB of dynamic range. But there is also some distortion that happens which isn't directly audiable, but we do tend to "precieve" or "sense" it anyway. This of course assumes we are listening critically at it.

    When CDs originally came out, they were still being mastered with the same technique as vinyl. Vinyl has the RIAA curve applied to it in order to save physical space on the platter and then the curve is de-applied upon playback with an RIAA approved device. Well, CD players don't have that reverse RIAA curve, so a lot of these first CDs sounded like ass because all of their low end was nixed. That tended to give a very very bad taste in the mouths of audiophiles.

    I don't buy into the $500 cable thing, but it can be proven that you get what you pay for. If you use a $20 cable from radio shack it might not be as high as quality as a $40 or $70 cable. I have personally never heard the difference between a "professional" cable and an "audiophile" cable but I know people who swear by that stuff. The only thing I can chalk it up to is that maybe we don't fully understand how we precieve or sense audio and sound.

    BTW, the book which was our "textbook" for that class at http://www.mtsu.edu/~record/ was The Complete Guide to High-End Audio:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0964084961/002-70 81894-1600862?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v =glance

    The book was half and half - half was a bunch of audiophile garbage, and the other half was fact and the science and technology of audio. A good read if you want to learn more about sound and modern audio technology.

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
  145. Ears are more sophisticated than eyes by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

    Look up the Haas Effect.

    In order to "fool" our ears things have to be under 30ms. We can "fool" our eyes at 41ms (1 sec divided by film - 24fps).

    This means our ears are a lot more preceptive than our eyes are.

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
  146. Quantified? by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

    Similar to smell/taste, not everything can be completely quantified. Or perhaps we just havent understood how it works or have the current technology to replicate it.

    I am an audio engineer, and yes our ears can only hear from 20Hz to 20kHz, when you put a brickwall filter at 20kHz and above, there are a lot of people in double-blind tests that tend to sense that "it doesn't sound right".

    We can't explain it other than to say there are things about our senses we just dont currently understand yet.

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
  147. d'uh by tod_miller · · Score: 1

    I wrapped my viao in tin foil before I switched it on, *snort* pacheesh newb!!!11

    But if I get a bad vibe from it I will saw it in half... along with my neigbours.

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com