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Wait a second folks. Everyone here at slashdot loves open source. We use it everyday, contribute to it and live by it but there might be something we're missing in our enthusiastic defense.

The speech is part of an effort by Microsoft to raise questions about the limits of innovation inherent in the open-source approach

Are there limits to innovation using the open-source approach? Well there's certaintly less money involved and to be brutally honest money equates to work. The hardest working most dedicated open-source advocate cannot get as much done as an employee. The open-source developer has to take large breaks from work to get money to live while an employee earns while he works! Revolutionary idea I know... I mean earning money for work! Who would have thought.

...to suggest that companies adopting the approach are putting their intellectual property at risk.

Hmmm. Well yes they are and since profit margins will drop there is a large risk to any company trying to make money from open-source. Take for example
Stormix cashes out
SuSE lays off most US staff
VA Linux Announces planned 25% staff cut

But that's where M$ made their mistake. Open-source doesn't have to belong to a company. It can be created and maintained by the community (I almost said 'The People' but I've got an aversion to that expression.). M$ are stating the obvious. Open source is dangerous to companies and it slows innovation but that doesn't mean it should be stopped. What we need to know are the long term effects of open source. I'm not too sure what the end result is going to be but it might turn out alright in the end...
Red Hat Breaks Even


Pinky: "What are we going to do tomorrow night Brain?"

As former Storm Linux user, I had become accustomed to their graphical package manager - it's considerably more polished than gnome-apt. When I switched to Debian, I got comfy with apt at the command line, but I missed the ability to search/browse packages. I fooled around with gnome-apt for a while - like you said, it gets the job done I guess... but neither of these tools is as slick as Red Carpet. If you use gnome-apt for browsing packages, give RC a shot - you might be pleasantly surprised.
Sean

For more information, please see the Stormix-users mailing list. Scroll down a bunch to get to the bankruptcy threads.

You might find this message thread particularly interesting...

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For more information, please see the Stormix-users mailing list. Scroll down a bunch to get to the bankruptcy threads.

You might find this message thread particularly interesting...

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The thread in question

I have been using Storm Linux (Debian based, developed by Stormix) it does have a very pretty boot screen but at the same time it has a very nice embedded boot messages window. Very pretty and very informative. Not scary.

They've sadly removed all trace of it from their current distro, so here it is, in case anyone could find it useful. Also, since I'm on the topic, I also made a very cool bootup sound from the PC speaker, this plays a .au file just as the previous picture is being displayed. The source for this is here. Sadly, this has also been removed from the distribution.

Don't know if either of these still work, let me know (sness@sness.net) if you have any problems with these.

Sorry, I really wanted to install Debian, but after 3 hours of trying to configure X by hand I returned to Mandrake. I later even tried to install Corel Linux and then apt-get the rest of Debian, but it only created inconsistencies and dependency problems (besides I only have access to very limited bandwith -modem-).

I, too, am a Mandrake user, but as soon as exams finish, I'm planning on switching over to Debian. I'm sick of RPMs, inconsistant packaging, and that damn Mandrake Update that, for the last couple of months, has only been showing me packages that I've already installed!

The thought of having to set up my own XF86Config doesn't concern me in the least, since I've already done it in Mandrake. I didn't like the job that the automated tool did (some ugly flicker), and I wanted to change the default keyboard settings, so I read the man page. It wasn't so scary.

Of course, I realize that not everyone wants to do that. It's been mentioned already in other threads, but have you considered trying Storm Linux? It's a much more faithful child of Debian than Corel, and I have yet to read one bad word about it. And it has more of the pointy-clicky tools you're looking for.

If you're looking for an easier-to-use debian, I'd recommend Storm.

from my limited use of it, seems kinda nice. havent dug that deep to find out if it had any incompatibilities with the "real" debian. it did fine with auto detecting sound and video hardware on a few machines that i tried.

progeny also has debian dist now in beta. havent tried it yet, but this one also looks promising.

It sure is a headache to promote a site like that . I should have just made a debian help site and relied on Taco and the boys intense love for Debian to get a debian site in front of a million eyes two days after launch . t;P> Ah, just kidding, I hope this site does great, and I'll to contribute whenever I can to it. Debian is my favorite distro, and I'd like to see Corel and Storm continue to smooth the gradient for people new to it.

It would probably do you some good to read the Debian Social Contract. It explains many of these things. I'll give a brief refresher as i go through your comment.

they're an often politically obnoxious organization threatening to push away corporate newcomers to the Linux movement

That's silly. I work at a company that makes a commercial distribution of debian, with some custom add-ons (the company is Stormix). Also, here's a quote from the Social Contract:

So, you see, Debian has explicitly stated that they are trying to make sure anyone can make a derivative work without being encumbered by bad licenses

And because it's GPLed like everything else from Debian,

According to the Social Contract, any software written for Debian must be under license that meets the Debian Free Software Guidelines. This could be BSD license, or MPL, or numerous other licenses...it doesn't have to be GPL. GPL just seems to be the most common choice.

even if they try to change future liscensing, this distribution will make for at least one more before they do so. Let's hope they never pursue that course.

The social contract specifically says that Debian's priorities are the Users and Free Software. If Debian "sold out" or some such non-sense, it would cease to be Debian. There will never be a non-free release of Debian.

So, don't worry about getting one more free release of Debian before it goes sour. It just won't happen.

-Doviende

A number of people (including the author) have commented on the install for Debian being hard - I just installed the latest free version of Stormix (which they did mention in the article) and it was rather easy.

Also, it sems that Stormix includes KDE which is a nice option to have (though I find myself liking Gnome quite a bit). They even have a selection phase during install to select Gnome or KDE, and then pick your window manager.

If you want to give Debian a try, it looks like Stormix is the easiest route.

hey taco! haven't you tried the Storm Package Manager? it's got all the features of apt, in a nice GUI interface. from what i've heard, it does more then gnome-apt, and it'll be included in Woody some time soon.

you can get it right now, along with other nifty additions like the Storm Adminstration System, from the stormix ftp site.

Or, add the following line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file and do an "apt-get update; apt-get install stormpkg":

deb http://ftp.stormix.com/storm hail main contrib

blatant plug: try out the new Storm Linux distribution (called Hail) that just got released, based on the latest debian potato. I wrote part of the ftp install :)

-Doviende

well, storm linux (http://www.stormix.com/)is pretty much that. It's based on Debian, and has implemented a new (very graphical and very nice.. looking) installer as well as other hey-that's-pretty-neat features much like Mandrake does with Redhat.

I wonder how this will affect Storm Linux or other Debian-based distros?
seanmeister

I use Debian, if my friend wants to isntall Linux to play around with it, he installs Corel. Even he, the Microsoft Bitch that he is, says that Corel is easier than windows. And I think Mandrake isn't too far behind.

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Personally, I stick with Debian. I find it very easy to upgrade which is far more important for me. I don't need to install Linux every couple of months like my roommate does with Windows. But then, I'm hardly a casual Linux user.

I use Linux as my primary desktop operating system and have for a while now. With KDE and a decent office suite, the only reason I ever want to boot back to Windows is to run games. And even here, Linux is catching up. In addition, I find Linux easier to install than either Windows 98 or Windows 2000 Professional, assuming of course that I pick a decent distribution.

So for me, Linux on the desktop is here now. But what about my mother? She isn't concerned about installing Linux (she wouldn't, nor would she install Windows) and Linux does have a lot to offer. But it also offers her no compelling reason to switch. She has all the software she needs and is comfortable with it. The few times that she buys new hardware, she knows it will work in Windows. She doesn't have to worry about recompiling a kernel or anything like that.

Linux is viable for her. But not yet compelling. She doesn't want to tinker with her system and she would end up having to learn how to edit config files and the like if she switched. Dists like Storm Linux go a long way to making everything easy to use but the Linux world still lags behind Windows.

We are getting there. We have the stability. We have the general ease-of-use if you don't need to tinker too much. We have the MS Office compatibility. We are starting to get the games (though the APIs lag significantly). Linux on the desktop is coming (and soon) but it isn't here yet. We're probably 80% of the way there.

As a rather new linux user, I 100% agree. I'm using a new Debian release called Storm Linux >> http://www.stormix.com/
Storm Linux includes something that's a great idea and a step in the right direction. It's a package installer called Storm Package Manager. I've installed a few simple packages (in the same stable release)... each required installing under a dozen files and it worked fine (and was very easy). I've been trying to get my Soundblaster Live! card to work. Like it or not, it was working under W98 in 30 minutes. When I use Storm Package Manager, it resolves the dependencies on a rather new ALSA .deb bundle to 4 or 5 files. When I pick the "apply package changes and quit" button, the number of files to be installed balloons to about 180! I've gone through that upgrade twice and both times it's gone quite badly in the end. Again.. like it or not, a frustrating experience to any user. OK.. Storm has a/the right idea. I applaud them! In fact, I think I'll email their support line. Maybe they can help me through this. Let's fix this and not fight about our dists differences. You have to agree that many/most people wouldn't suffer through the learning curve. It really could be much easier. Thanks... no fancy sig.

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I thought that's what Stormix was? Packaged, easy to install Debian.

I was thinking about it, but finally just installed Debian. It tooka couple of tries to get it right (mostly cause the interface for dselect is so kludgy) but it wasn't difficult and I'm VERY happy with the results. I much prefer starting with nothing and building up my system than starting with everything and having to de-install stuff (Redhat/Mandrake/SuSE)

Skippy

I think the closest Debian comes to being easy for newbies is Storm Linux from stormix it's based on debian yet has an easy to use graphical install. It also has the Storm Administration System which I didn't bother to try out. While I'll stick to Debian, I would gladly recommend this distro to a newbie looking to try out Debian. dselect would probably scare most newbies away.

On a side note, I have a gripe about OpenLinux... When I installed it, it neither modified my MBR, nor offered to create a boot disk :(. So, as soon as I rebooted, I was "locked out" of Linux. I dunno if it made a difference, but I had planned to dual boot with NT (nt4 sp5 was already installed when I installed OpenLinux).. Has this happened to anyone else with OpenLinux?

Alex Bischoff
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Okay, folks lets do a little research here.

A minute of research

Contentions:

They are swiping Debian. They have stated that "We will be using the GPL or a related license for all of our products." So if Debian want's their install then nothing is stopping them. The Debian developers as a whole need to figure out if they wish to be a main stream distro, or a custom distro for Debian developers and power users. There isn't a right or wrong choice in this.

This is a KDE distro? It includes both GNOME, and KDE. Is there something wrong with choice? There are no rational people who content that GNOME is currently more stable than KDE. Given the relative ages of the 2 projects this isn't an attempt to slander GNOME. Stabity is relative to what you use the desktop for, however.

As far as KDE looking like windows. This is a good thing. (IMHO) I want people using linux, and KDE gets former windows users up and productive quickly. Once they are using linux they may find GNOME more to their liking. Personally I prefer E without gnome, but I really only use a WM for holding up xterms/Eterms/kvts, and netscape.

Another sign of Linux fragmentation. Ok folks repeat after me "Linux is not Unix". There is this little thing called the GPL. This means that anything produced under it can be used or adapted by anyone. This means that we can take the best of any distro and use it in another distro. In addition many of the so called distro are simply value added version of another distro. Mandrake Linux is a good example of this.

It's not in Stormix's best interest to get too far away from Debian. Once Stromix breaks with Debian they need to start doing all the heavy lifting themselves. By same token it's in their best interest to see Debian impliment many of their changes so they don't need to reimpliment everything every new release.



Note: My views should not be take to reflect the views of VALinux. They have been known to incite internal flame wars. This of course is sometimes part of the fun;-)
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Don't look at me I'm just a mushroom.