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• Symbol Technologies licenses the Palm and creates several units which can do RF, 802.11, and include a barcode scanner (high-output LED)
• Handspring invents the Springboard slot and implements pseudo-USB support for connecting the devices.
• Sony mimics that with the MemoryStick, but adds VFS support, and takes Handspring's USB protocol, changes one function, and makes their own spin on it.
• Handera, formerly TRG builds upon that with a sliding graffiti area (thanks for incorporating my idea from #palmchat back in 1998 on that one), and adds CF and SD slot architectures (still serially connected storage though, can't "run apps" from each card concurrently)
• Palm comes out with the replacement to the Vx, called the m505, and includes the Sony VFS extensions, the Handspring hardware port design (internally) and the Handspring USB modifications, but changes it enough to make yet a third fork of this pseudo-USB protocol. They also make sure to make every single thing about this new device completely incompatible with every single other thing available for their devices, even down to a 2mm change in the stylus length (I have a more detailed enumeration of those changes found here).

Why does Palm think they're about to, in any way, create a new hardware device that they think will surpass these existing innovative devices? Palm is ALWAYS behind the curve on hardware advances in this area. We're not even talking about comparing them to the iPAQ, VTech Helio, Agenda, Yopy, and the other dozens of non-PalmOS, non-WinCE handheld PDA devices.

Currently, Palm's OEMs for the PalmOS® software include:

• Sony
• Handspring
• Handera (formerly TRG)
• Qualcomm (bought out by Kyocera)
• Kyocera
• Symbol Technologies
• ...and others.

They get licensing from each and every one of these OEMs. Their hardware is the last thing to ever be updated. It is without a doubt, the least innovative portion of their business.. and they're choosing to keep it?!

I don't quite understand the motive behind this decision on their part. I suppose I'll find out at Palmsource in February.

There's nothing wrong with scanners.

If you want to scan your library I expect you want something to take to the bookshelf, not something that you carry your bookshelf to...

I've gotten good results from the Symbol CS200
link although with it is a little limited on memory for extended inventory (350 item memory) and while I never had enough time to get the RS232 interface to run under Linux they provide enough documentation on the API that I'd hope it's be a breeze if you had a few hours to spare.

UPC codes are good. End-user access to UPC databases is also good. Both of these don't diminish in my mind the fact that CueCat is bad.

Actually there are several companies, including Symbol that manufacture ruggadized handhelds for these same situations.

Check out symbol's spt website [symbol.com]

Symbol has a number of PDAs with various IP and drop specifications.

Their terminals run both Palm OS and Windows CE

Yes, I work for Symbol.

You can buy a Palm device with 802.11 or 802.11b from Symbol These units have built in 2D scanners as well. These are excellent for data collection on warehouse floors.

A belt pouch is available as well, as the symbol version is much longer than the Palm version(to house the 802.11(b) card and scanner)

I have worked with these using Wavelink software and Telnet software. They are easy to use and seem to work every time. The only draw back is some times you do not want a warehouse floor guy to be playing games when he should be checking inventory or packing

If you need professional wireless integration try Best Way Technologies

Karma whoring: Here's the URL: http://www.symbol.com/products/mobile_computers/mo bile_ce_ppt2700.html

In fact, they do. It retails for $699 at the moment...

Here's the data sheet!

The other use is an inventory of equiptment, for things like homeowners insurance. Or you can do inventory for a company. The only problem would be carrying around the desktop, monitor, UPS, tape drive, speakers when using the barcode scanner.

Why lug around a desktop system for inventory when you can plug the scanner into a notebook or a Palm? When we do store inventory, the barcodes get scanned into Notepad running on a notebook. The file is then saved and read into the POS system to update inventory and check for discrepancies.

(It'd be easier still if the scan guns could be plugged into a Palm instead...those are much smaller. Of course, there are also the Symbol SPT 1500 and CSM 150 if you plan on doing lots of Palm scanning...)

The other use is an inventory of equiptment, for things like homeowners insurance. Or you can do inventory for a company. The only problem would be carrying around the desktop, monitor, UPS, tape drive, speakers when using the barcode scanner.

Why lug around a desktop system for inventory when you can plug the scanner into a notebook or a Palm? When we do store inventory, the barcodes get scanned into Notepad running on a notebook. The file is then saved and read into the POS system to update inventory and check for discrepancies.

(It'd be easier still if the scan guns could be plugged into a Palm instead...those are much smaller. Of course, there are also the Symbol SPT 1500 and CSM 150 if you plan on doing lots of Palm scanning...)

At a former company we had scan-guns which had LCD-displays and button key pads, they could communicate IR, RF, or direct link, and could be hooked to small bar-code printers. They weren't NCR products, but the broad expanse of this old patent would appear to have been infringed upon many ways by that device, as well.

I suspect the people you're talking about would be Symbol Technologies, who have for years made portable bar-code readers for use in retail and other outlets. For instance, the Toys'R'Us where I used to work and the K-mart where I work now both use gun-shaped bar-code reader/data terminals with UPC readers and keypads. At one point, I even watched a manager process a K-Mart credit card application through one, on the spot!

The really interesting thing is that Symbol makes a line of bar-code-reading devices that are essentially Palm IIIs (or VIIs?) with bar-code scanners attached. It's interesting that they apparently aren't named in the suit--could it be that they do license the NCR patent technology?
--

Since I'm a Symbol employee, a quick clarification:

The Symbol SPT1700 Series either have a wireless Spectrum24 network card, or a Novatel Minstrel radio modem. The Spectrum24 card can either use a static IP address, or talk to a DHCP server. The radio modem has a static radio address, and an IP is given to the owner when s/he signs up for a wireless account with some provider.

The SPT1700 is just the base model with no wireless stuff. The SPT1740 has a Spectrum24 card. The SPT1743 has a 11 megabit wireless network card. The SPT1733 has the radio modem.

If you really want to know more about the above models, head over to epog.symbol.com and look them up. Username and Password are "guest"

Note that the SPT1700 line has a Type II PC Card slot, so all the above wireless stuff is just a PC Card added to the device at the factory.

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

They reckon an 802.11 card flattened a Palm in 2.5 minutes, but Bluetooth gave only a slight dent in normal life

Now that's interesting. They reckon?? How about some facts? I'm not so sure I trust them reckoning about something that is pretty much competition.

Here is a Palm that is an 802.11 device. It runs for 9 to 10 hours with a bar code scanner and a web client running. The battery is 3.7V and 1400 mAH. A normal Palm has two 1150 mAH batteries in it, so the battery is not much bigger. I'm thinking that without the bar code scanner, it would last a lot longer.

Definitely not 2.5 minutes.

You mean

--
"I have also mastered pomposity, even if I do say so myself." -Kryten

Okay, a couple of points - in the UK we consistently get up to 800m with a 100mW output power with an 11Mb Symbol set, and considerably more than that with the US's 1W limit. This isn't that bad.

Also - If you need more than 20 concurrent users in one area you can place more than one Access Point at each site. I know the Airport is not quite as intelligent as the Symbol kit, but it still copes okay with this setup.

I still think that unless we go for a realistic picocell environment across the whole country then it is pointless to replace the current GSM setup - although I do want my Symbol 1740 Palm device with laser scanner and 802.11 with telnet + html browser apps to work everywhere...:)


Frog51

It is my understanding that trade secrets can only be protected by secrecy and non-disclosure agreements. If Digital Convergence has a trade secret and someone "discovers" it without agreeing to non-disclosure and without getting information (either directly or indirectly) from Digital Convergence or a developer who has agreed to non-disclosure, then isn't that information fair game?

For example, if Ford figures out a way to double the fuel economy of a car, they would certainly consider that a trade secret. Presume that I'm tinkering around under the hood and discover that they've put a 14.37 degree bend in the fuel injector, and I determine that alone is necessary to increase fuel economy, and I notice that Ford has not protected the design with a patent, then isn't it fair for me to "sell" to Chrysler "my" idea of a bent fuel injector? Or bending the fuel injector on my older Ford car?

Now, if an OSS developer had read and agreed to the software license that comes with the Cue Cat barcode reader, AND that license specifically stated "...you agree not to reveal protocols or design information you discover from reverse engineering this product...", then PERHAPS they would be able to legally argue that their trade secrets have been violated. But, alas, I don't believe this is the case, as previous discussion indicates that the developers have not installed the software or read the documentation on the setup disk which came with the Cue Cat.

Which brings up another question, can indirectly resolved protocols and design information be subjected to NDA?

I wonder if Digital Convergence negotiated an NDA with Symbol Technologies or if maybe they figured out how a barcode scanner works by reverse engineering...

Long live FREE information!

Symbol owns majority of bar code scanner patents, so DC either pays royalties to Symbol (most likely) or is in for a surprise.

I don't know if it's totally clear but what that PR rep had to say is a complete work of fiction. There's literally no truth in it. Let me count the ways:

-- nothing done with the Cuecat was illegal

-- there's no IP for the Cuecat people to defend - identify it! I dare you! "By posting our IP to the net" my ass!

-- there's no such thing as "Defend it or lose it" under IP law. If 200 people rip off MS Windows and MS prosecutes 2 of them, there's no such defense as "Well, your honor, MS didn't prosecute the other 198 people..." This is a MASSIVE LIE made up by companies who want to shift responsibility. ANYTIME you see a company say "We had to ... or lose it" they're lying.

-- That whole third paragraph about the linux community helping Microsoft is hogwash.

-- there aren't any illegal posting efforts

-- if it took them five years to develop a BARCODE SCANNER which MUNGES the normal output in a trivial manner before outputting it, I am a Great Horned Antelope. I'm not? Well then I guess they're lying again. I talked to a friend of mine at Symbol, and Digital Convergance approached them to make this device earlier this year. (Symbol didn't end up making it.) Their company has been in existence less than one year. Symbol could make a run of these for you in a few months.

And what I really hate is that the lies are so pervasive that they end up shaping the whole debate. People can only see past a certain limited number of lies at a time. So they'll catch a few, but then they'll accept the bigger lies like "We had to ... or lose it".

Random thought to any company executives who happen to be reading this: you know, if you truly wanted [your company] to be a radical, different company, try this on for size. Fire any and all PR people. Just fire them. Don't hire any more. Ever. If there's a story where you have to talk to the press, let one of the principals do it - the guy who programmed that feature, or whatever. No matter how big the company gets, DON'T EMPLOY TRAINED LIARS TO DEFEND IT. Because that's what a PR person is - someone trained in the art of creating believable lies day in and day out. People catch on to this, believe it or not, even though it's a very slippery thing to catch on to, and they end up with (at a minimum) a vague distrust of that company, because they know they're being lied to but can't quite figure out exactly where. It's the reason Microsoft has such a bad reputation. If VA or Red Hat or anyone else truly wanted to break the mold, they would abandon the institutionalized lying. This would prevent that distrust from building, as well as keeping the company on the straight and narrow - without a wall of lying to protect them, the company execs get good feedback whenever they're doing something wrong.

I think the first company to do this has the potential of being a very different, much more
people-friendly company than we've seen in the past.

--
Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org

They are working with NBC, FORBES, Wired, and Radio Shack among others.

Frankly I like the zappy and pen from Symbol more...

They are working with NBC, FORBES, Wired, and Radio Shack among others.

Frankly I like the zappy and pen from Symbol more...

Unfortunately, all the uses you mention imply a back-end database somewhere. The UPC code (and most other barcodes) only gives you a numeric key. If you have an inventory database, for example, you can use this key to look up the price or other details about the item. Without the database, a barcode is just a meaningless string of digits.

I have access to barcode scanners at work, including a Symbol SPT-1740 PalmOS/scanner combo. To this date I've never found anything "interesting" to scan. The best was the 2D (PDF417) barcode on the back of my driver's license. And, just as the State of Illinois claimed, the data contained within is encrypted. (No, I never tried to crack it.) Yippee.

Maybe now that the RS catalogs are coded I'll actually have a use for the SPT-1740.

yup - www.symbol.com

In contrast, the point of Transmeta is to design a family of microprocessors. They don't build the boxes to put them in.

Microsoft unveiled the Pocket PC today. Products being available by its partners include: HP Jornada, Compaq iPaq H3600, Casio Cassiopei a E-105 and Symbol PPT 2700. Microsoft's touting it as being better than Palm. Here's a list of features, significant among them: Microsoft Reader (for reading e-books), Windows Media Player (for playing music), Pocket Streets (a map program), Pocket Internet Explorer, and office productivity tools like Outlook, Word, and Excel.

FWIW though, Japanese make good appliance-type gadgets, and you can count on them to deliver good quality end-user products (witness the game consoles). Only problem is if some terrorists decide to use a Sharp Zaurus in their Missile Guidance System.

Have you seen the sp t1700? PalmOS-based, with 802.11. Also, there should be several wireless lan Handspring cards coming out soon, including a bluetooth one from widComm.

I have a Symbol SPT-1740 -- Basically, a Palm III with integrated barcode scanner and Spectrum24 wireless LAN. It came (a month ago) with PalmOS 3.32 already installed. Not having had a lot of prior experience with the Palm, I didn't even know that Hotsync at 115200 or Direct IR was anything special. The network Hotsync over the air is pretty spiffy.

Now if I could just get my company to buy me a Spectrum24 access point to use at home...

Anyone have a good way to add Slashdot as an AvantGo channel? I'd love to get the full text of the articles and comments (at a high threshhold), but if even if I customize my settings for "Slashdot Lite", AvantGo spends too much memory grabbing the administrative pages (FAQ, code, etc.) before grabbing the content. Is there a "Slashdot Lite--" that's just the articles without the administrative links?

Symbol have a current version of the Pilot with a laser barcode scanner and 2.4Ghz RF connectivity. Now we might see a colour one!
Yippeee - Toys!!

It would be easier to read with a barcode reader, such as this sc anner enabled Palm pilot!

What is the point of hiding your SSN? No one can really do anything bad to you if you have it. I know Bill Gates' SSN (it's in the public record with the SEC).

Scanners come in several flavors. What you want are decoded, keyboard-wedge scanners. These interpose themselves between the keyboard and the keyboard port, and when they scan something, they insert the characters just as if they had been typed on the keyboard. The system shouldn't be able to tell the difference between characters produced by scanning and characters produced by typing, so there's no question of OS-related problems.

Other scanners connect to the serial port and require specialized software to take the input from that port and insert it into your application. You'll want to avoid these in most cases - especially if such software doesn't exist for Linux. :)

Oh, and one more thing: Symbol is the largest producer of scanners in the world, and according to an engineer friend of mine who works there, they put a lot more into quality-control than other companies. Their scanners are often available at discounts of 50% or more off list price (because list price is horribly inflated), so shop around for your reseller and find a good price, but buy a Symbol scanner in the end.

--
Michael Sims

For all you Palm lovers out there, Symbol Technologies has three variants on the Palm series.

The SPT1500 is a OEM Palm III with an integrated barcode laser scanner. It is used for warehouse management, shipping, and receiving applications. It looks like a standard Palm III with an added inch at the top for the scan engine. The expansion port holds the scanner card.

The SPT1 700 and SPT1740 are brand new ruggedized Palms that are designed to be used in an industrial environment. They are rated to survive a 4-foot drop onto solid concrete.

And yes, you can use standard function calls to enable and use the scanner. Someone wrote code that stops the scan mirror from oscillating and turns the SPT1500 into a ad-hoc laser pointer.
---------------------------------------- -----------------

"We are but packets in the internet of life."

For all you Palm lovers out there, Symbol Technologies has three variants on the Palm series.

The SPT1500 is a OEM Palm III with an integrated barcode laser scanner. It is used for warehouse management, shipping, and receiving applications. It looks like a standard Palm III with an added inch at the top for the scan engine. The expansion port holds the scanner card.

The SPT1 700 and SPT1740 are brand new ruggedized Palms that are designed to be used in an industrial environment. They are rated to survive a 4-foot drop onto solid concrete.

And yes, you can use standard function calls to enable and use the scanner. Someone wrote code that stops the scan mirror from oscillating and turns the SPT1500 into a ad-hoc laser pointer.
---------------------------------------- -----------------

"We are but packets in the internet of life."