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And that alternative is selling "Steam Machines" with a Microsoft tax?

The one that we have known about for years that you can get a refund for. So did you not know that or are you just a defeatist?

Or you could buy a chromebook or one of the many android-based laptops (often tablet/laptop convertibles) or there's the dell xps developer editions which comes with linux pre-installed or Lenovo Thinkpads or failing all of that you could get a refund on the windows license if you dont want it as many people have done.

The only party with an interest in pretending Microsoft is the only game in town for pre-installed systems is Microsoft, there are in fact plenty of other options.

No I meant exactly what I said. Microsoft is no stranger to doing this sort of thing. They also did a nice little FUD campaign to camouflage their actions. Not that the FUD went 100% like MS wanted but MS still managed to kill Linux on netbooks. And netbooks.

Probably not that many:
because they won't let people buy them

if they refuse to sell them then their sales figures will be low.

Well, everyone makes up their own mind. I'm against Mono. The problems with it are not "MS hate." They're a very practical response to Microsoft. If you follow the news (SCO, etc) it's unremarkable fact that they're trying to destroy Linux via intellectual property law. Tricks just like Mono fit right in line.

Microsoft and de Icaza have been trying for ages to tie Mono to Gnome's success, and in a small way, at least, they are succeeding. Canonical considers Mono to be a "core framework" in ubuntu and they include it by default. It's not just Tomboy but F-Spot and other applications now too - Canonical says over 40 at this point.

I don't promise it will blow up as badly as it could, but taking the risk just to have de Icaza's clone of MS's knock off of Java, when Java itself is GPLv3, is... to use Rush Limbaugh's phrase, Developmentally Challenged.

I see it as ending up on mobile devices and maybe netbooks.

I see it ending up on netbooks especially. Eventually it'd be nice to see it installed by default by the OEM. That was a possibility during the first months of netbooks before M$ shut down that option.

However, the work-around, aka the windows refund, might not be as financially bad as it sounds. It used to be profitable to buy a car or other expensive item in a high-tax country and then fill out the import papers to have it brought home and pay the tax at home. The reason was because the vendor had to cut down on the base price to leave room for the tax and still have it within reach of enough of the market.

Same deal with the Windows refund. The manufacturers have to keep the overall price down to cover the cost of Windows. Take that off and the discount is noticeable. The downside is that it takes a little patience and a little record keeping to plod through the process. However, all retailers have a refund process, especially during the holiday season.

Just a few for ideas. It varies from country to country, of course:
http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/29/amazons-windows-refund-helps-the-earth/
http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381

Dear x,
Thank you for your response.
I have been speaking to the Product Managers for the Software and Laptops and they have both advised that we would not issue a refund on the OS.
You may return the product for a refund if you are within the time period of 28days after purchase but other then that we are not going to be issuing a refund on the OS.
The Product Manager for the laptops has been speaking to the manufacture and they have come back with the below response regarding the matter:
'It's a load of rubbish, I don't know where this rumor has come from J we started getting people asking for it on the EEE PC when we first produced the XP versions.
We get the odd person phoning up saying this to us but no one gives the cost of XP back and I can understand why they think we would.
I'm sorry we cannot help -- I have never heard of any manufacture or reseller giving the money back.'
Kind Regards,
y
Ebuyer Customer Support Team

isn't it remarkable that they started getting these requests when they did the XP eeePC! What an uncanny co-incidence.

Copy Print Exit 4:58:39 PM CustomerChristian Initial Question/Comment: Rebates 4:58:44 PM SystemSystem Jeremy has joined this session! 4:58:44 PM SystemSystem Connected with Jeremy 4:58:44 PM SystemSystem Hello my name is Jeremy. How may I help you today? 4:59:20 PM CustomerChristian Hi there, I was reading an article about how amazon refunded the microsoft OS price for a netbook that was purchased. http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/21/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/ 4:59:35 PM CustomerChristian I was wondering whether Newegg would do that on a laptop I ordered, because I don't accept the EULA. 5:00:34 PM AgentJeremy We do not offer this return. 5:01:02 PM CustomerChristian Didn't think so. :) Perhaps one day when EULA's are challenged in court we can get this fixed. Until then, viva la microsoft tax eh? ;) 5:01:49 PM AgentJeremy Do you have any other questions, or is there anything else I can assist you with today? 5:01:53 PM CustomerChristian Nope, thanks. Send Session ID: 658231 Question40 Pick one of the following options: OK Cancel Timeout40 Do you wish to continue this chat session? Continue Session End Session

Haven't done it yet, however, Alan Lord does a good write-up on this: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/04/23/how-to-remove-mono-from-ubuntu-904-jaunty-jackalope/

When taking a stand towards something, I find it sometimes useful to look at the people being very for or against. Viewing some of the comments from anti Mono people like this, makes in itself a good case for being sceptical towards the anti crowd in this case.

To me, GNU/Linux is not a handful of fledgling arms and tinfoil hats, and that is excactly what I see from a lot of the anti Mono people.

I did. It isn't hard and mine is going to vote against it. Of course he is in the opposition so it isn't too surprising, but wherever you are in the UK you can write to your MP (by email- its very easy) and a letter writing campaign by valid constituents is going to be noticed. A facebook campaign isn't quite the same thing. Here is my letter and the response and here is where you go to write to your MP

I think you should have a look at this chaps blog http://www.theopensourcerer.com/ and the Open Learning Centre that he links to http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com/. They may well have some good ideas for you.

Yes I realise linux / unix is pretty powerful and awesome but it doesn't suit my needs, it's getting there but I'd estimate it'll still be 5 years before I switch, so unix based suggestions suck.

I'm sorry that someone has fed you that malarky and that you believed it.

In reality, the functionality that you said you were after on your desktop is actually available to you today, in a stable, secure, fast OS that is written to your best interests as an end user and which will cost you nothing to install. There are literally 25,000+ native applications available to you for no cost that run under this OS, and it is supported by an estimated 1.5 million full-time-equivalent developers worldwide.

There is a solution available for this OS called Wine that can run the vast majority of your leagcy Windows applications almost directly, and if that doesn't work then you can install VirtualBox and Windows under it and then run your leagcy application seamlessly in a virtual machine.

http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2007/12/03/virtualbox-seamless-windows/
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/screenshot-nq8.png

http://talkingincircles.net/2008/11/03/virtualbox-seamless-mode-windows-xp-in-ubuntu-810-compiz-fusion/
http://talkingincircles.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/virtualbox_seamless.png

On any hardware that is capable of running Vista this alternative OS and desktop will absolutely fly. It is stable enough to be able to record uptimes measured in many months between reboots. There are several different choices for the desktop environment available to you.

If you fell that this option really doesn't suit, and in fact sucks, then what can one say other than that you must have unimaginable needs?

Oh well. As they say in the classics ... you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

Yes I realise linux / unix is pretty powerful and awesome but it doesn't suit my needs, it's getting there but I'd estimate it'll still be 5 years before I switch, so unix based suggestions suck.

I'm sorry that someone has fed you that malarky and that you believed it.

In reality, the functionality that you said you were after on your desktop is actually available to you today, in a stable, secure, fast OS that is written to your best interests as an end user and which will cost you nothing to install. There are literally 25,000+ native applications available to you for no cost that run under this OS, and it is supported by an estimated 1.5 million full-time-equivalent developers worldwide.

There is a solution available for this OS called Wine that can run the vast majority of your leagcy Windows applications almost directly, and if that doesn't work then you can install VirtualBox and Windows under it and then run your leagcy application seamlessly in a virtual machine.

http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2007/12/03/virtualbox-seamless-windows/
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/screenshot-nq8.png

http://talkingincircles.net/2008/11/03/virtualbox-seamless-mode-windows-xp-in-ubuntu-810-compiz-fusion/
http://talkingincircles.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/virtualbox_seamless.png

On any hardware that is capable of running Vista this alternative OS and desktop will absolutely fly. It is stable enough to be able to record uptimes measured in many months between reboots. There are several different choices for the desktop environment available to you.

If you fell that this option really doesn't suit, and in fact sucks, then what can one say other than that you must have unimaginable needs?

Oh well. As they say in the classics ... you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

I've used sudo, and think it's customizability would do great for Windows. It's clearly better than UAC in terms of configurability.

However, regarding security, my first Google hit was this:
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/28/vista-uac-faux-security-or-what/

How does this issue not apply for sudo?

Assume i do

sudo evil_service
(runs in the backgrounds, installs itself into the init system)
and then do
evil_program
that uses some IPC mechanism to talk to evil_service, how is this different from UAC?

it is genuine btw. We did a rather lame April Fools version just before we got the real deal. http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/01/ooxml-fails-iso-approval/ we are not clever enough to do an acknowledged AF followed by an elaborate hoax. So what numbers don't add up?

The claimed results of the ballot on dis29500 document looks like a blatant forgery to me. For example, the implied claim about the process having been managed by ISO/CS ("Central Secretariat") ist wrong; the process is managed by ISO/IEC ITTF ("Information Technology Task Force"). Also, there is no defined "Voting stage" of "enquiry" in the JTC1 directives, etc etc.

I am Alan Bell, (the secret is out) and I put together dis29500.org (with the help of The Open Sourcerer) but the content and suggestions were not written by us, although we do agree with many of them. The comments were written by the National Bodies. I believe the US gets credit for this one http://dis29500.org/us-0270

The disparity of rules for PAS, Fast-Track and ISO committee generated standards is fast making ISO a laughing stock in IT circles. The days of open standards development are fast disappearing. Instead we are getting "standardization by corporation", something I have been fighting against for the 20 years I have served on ISO committees. I am glad to be retiring before the situation becomes impossible. I wish my colleagues every success for their future efforts, which I sincerely hope will not prove to be as wasted as I fear they could be.

breakdown by country votes: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2007/09/03/ecma-37 6-dis-29500-ooxml-the-voting-so-far/

Note 7 countries ( marked *** ) just recently updated their status within ISO from 'O' (observer) to 'P' so they could vote. Those are mostly small countries and likely to be Microsoft puppets within ISO body. Which means MS can now actively block *any* new proposed standard and promote their own more easily.

I first read this article on an Australian site (http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;8103 29453/) last week and it has been syndicated and is doing the rounds. This guy, Howard whoever he is, clearly has done zero research and has no facts to back up his comments - especially the finale.

At the end of last year the EU Commission released one of the most comprehensive reports on the impact, spread and use of Open Source, around the world. They found that, in actual fact, only around 10% of those who contribute to Open Source projects (the software engineers) are employed by proprietary vendors - the overwhelming majority are employed by the enterprises Howard so cynically believes are using FLOSS purely to beat down the cost of proprietary systems.

You can download the entire report from the EU itself here: http://flossimpact.eu/

There are many other reports from major research organisations that are concluding similar things. Forrester research has recently found that over 50% of large enterprises are using FLOSS in mission critical applications and this is growing.

A quick Google would lead Howard to many of these findings.