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Alienware Swaps SteamOS For Windows
An anonymous reader writes "Valve left many OEMs hanging when they delayed Steam machines until sometime next year to work out their controller issues. Many of these companies excitedly showed off new Steam machine hardware that they cannot ship, so Alienware has been the first to re-purpose its Debian-based Steam machine to be a Windows-based Steam machine bundled with an Xbox controller. While Windows 8.x has not been particularly well-received it does support a lot more games than Linux and when configured to boot straight into Steam Big Picture mode the influence of the underlying OS is visible only in the larger game library."
It isn't "pussying out", Valve couldn't deliver so they found an alternative.
Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer anyway.
This must be somewhat disturbing for Valve. Then again I doubt many individuals was asking for a Steam specific OS.
Disturbing because if it all released at the same time then at least they'd have some hype now you'll just have small gaming PCs where you either get Windows and kinda all games or the Steam one which only run a small part of all the titles.
Yay! Which one are you going to pick? ... Oh and the Windows one run the software you're used too as well.
I expect that it's going to be nearly impossible for Valve/Steam to succeed with the mainstream with this development. Had there been no ready-to-use competitor it'd be one thing, but delaying launch to the point that the ready-made competitor can just come in and save the day pretty much destroys credibility, and once that credibility is lost it usually can't be earned back.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
So they take premium hardware, run it on a second rate OS, and hope flowers will bloom out of the pile of manure? Those who would argue about whether Linux is not the best OS to run on premium hardware, needs to go over to TOP500.org, and look at the overwhelming majority of supercomputers that run Linux. 96.4% of the machines, 97.9% of the combined performance of the whole list. So now we get Alienware. What the hell were they thinking? Some half-cooked noob who wouldn't know a logic gate from a hole in the ground just wants what the store chucks at him? "Oh, I don't want to know that much, I just game and stuff: don't really *know* anything about 'puters." And so you get what you get.
Obviously Valve would have preferred to have everything ready for launch earlier rather than later; but does anybody expect for a moment that "Well, the proposal is just to build a PC that's good enough for gaming and looks OK in the living room, we commit essentially nothing to the OS until the HDDs actually get imaged and installed" was a part of the calculation for OEMs from the beginning?
Getting the controller right is, for Valve, a big deal; because just cloning the xbox controller won't do much for PC oriented titles; but keyboard/mouse combos are not exactly good couch company (also some bad history there...), so they need something clever.
For the OEMs, the bet is markedly smaller. It's not as though you can easily buy linux-only hardware, and 'quiet', 'small and unobtrusive', and 'reasonably powerful' are virtues you can sell under any OS.
Ouch for Valve.
This is gonna hurt.
Us keyboard and mouse jockeys will enjoy spanking you in multiplayer twitch games.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
This was pretty much as expected.
All of Valve's marketing of the steam boxes focuses on Steam as a brand, and for the average player the expectation for that is playing all the latest games and big franchises. However, under a Linux-based SteamOS, you are limited to indie games and a very occasional AAA release by Valve or some more-or-less independent studio they convinced. That means no Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, GTA, etc.
Even worse, the narrative and marketing has been intentionally misleading, with both Valve and hardware makers focusing on the 'hundreds' of games available, waving away the big question: when, if ever, are we going to see SteamOS versions of the big-name releases. With things as are now, you'd likely see a big number of consumers (the ones who don't even know what an OS is) buying a SteamOS box with very, very false expectations.
And that alternative is selling "Steam Machines" with a Microsoft tax?
The one that we have known about for years that you can get a refund for. So did you not know that or are you just a defeatist?
I bet if microsoft goes all in on the Windows store and locks you into only stuff bought from the windows store then the Steam box would have a much better chance. But it seems almost impossible that MS is going to actually go that route at this point. I could be unpleasantly surprised though, but now that Ballmer is gone that seems unlikely.
As long as you can use Steam for windows... and buy games through steam on Windows Linux gaming is basically for ideological purists, for people who represent the 85% of the market or so that use windows, or the 12% that use Mac Steam works so why change? They'd need a really compelling offering.
Time to blacklist Alienware and NEVER buy a Steam Machine from them.
But surely you had already blacklisted Alienware because they have sold Windows-based computers for many years. And frankly, if you are going to blacklist any company that sells Microsoft-powered computers then you must have very limited range from which to choose.
The alternative to mounting a vendetta against the company is to just to grow up and simply not buy the products that you don't want. Then when the Steam-OS systems finally arrive then you can happily buy it, knowing that you weren't forced at gunpoint to pay any evil Microsoft tax.
I expect that it's going to be nearly impossible for Valve/Steam to succeed with the mainstream with this development.
Considering that it is still locking in the Steam service for all games, this is still a win for Valve.
Yea I agree, it's also losing all of its publicity momentum. I do wonder if steamOS will be a success, as I'm not particularly convinced about it.
Silly. The company must sell those units or take a loss. If Valve can't give them what they need to sell the units they MUST re-purpose them to sell.
What other OS could they use that would have as good a chance of actually selling? As is, Dell will likely take a loss on this project which means it was a financial and business mistake to do this much with Valve until they were ready.
Dell as you probably are aware is not flush with cash. They've had some very bad financial problems and they are in a very tough business. They cannot afford this crap.
To then blame them for not going down with the ship and taking an even bigger loss simply to spite microsoft is moronnic. It is an opinion morons have... you are therefore a moron.
Good day.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Wow, $550. For a base unit with a Core i3?!
Tell me they're not really trying because there's no way that sort of price point with that sort of hardware, who would buy a Steam box?
I mean, we complained about the PS3 and Xbox360 holding back games and graphics for years, and now you're putting out something costs more than an Xbone (with kinect!), and either will not last as long (requires upgrades) or has the potential to cripple PC gaming even more because this wimpy box will have to be usable for the next 5 years?
Tell me again what the benefit for the consumer is again? They're paying more for a "console PC" than the Xbone, which will likely need life extensions (upgrades) over its lifetime. Or they will have to shell out piles of money upfront for a more powerful box?
A PS4 or Xbone, with PS+ or Xbox Live may prove a cheaper way to game in the end... and this is supposed to be the future of PC gaming?
Dell probably had already started the hardware production process. They likely had a choice to either do this or waste or the work (and possibly hardware) that they had already put into i (or built). Seems (to me) like the most obvious reason for this.
Right. Most of those computers wouldn't run the latest games. So screw linux, I want the systems my games work on. And no, I don't need a supercomputer to do that, a decent graphics card, fast enough processor and some modest amount of memory is all that I need.
Supercomputers have nothing to do with personal computers. It's like comparing cars to nuclear reactors.
IMHO I think and have always thought the reason for Valve doing it in the first place is that they are scared about all the vendor specific stores which is poping up (of which they are one and one of the bigger ones but there could exist an even bigger more obvious choice) - As iTunes store, Google Play, whatever Microsoft calls their / Live.
_If_ Microsoft made a successful game delivery platform / sold all software signed through their own store Valve would have much less left.
If they rolled and had their own OS and people actually used it that would be less of a problem for them.
By now and since the Steam machine reveal GMG have started their own software with a similar purpose as Steams in that it keep track of your friends and let you upgrade your games and such but connected to their store which use all DRM free content. Since I want everything in one place that may not prevent me from using Steam but it's sure a more attractive option from a technical stand point. And as said the reason most of us prefer Steam over say Desura or something such is that it's biggest and (possibly?) have the most content (most popular if nothing else) - It's not something you can take for granted though.
Yea I agree, it's also losing all of its publicity momentum. I do wonder if steamOS will be a success, as I'm not particularly convinced about it.
As a Linux user I have very little interest in it and kinda wished they didn't tried though I can at least see advantages in getting gaming/performance specific patches they want into the system or say binary drivers or such. So small advantages. But I wish/hope other distributions pick them up too and I don't really like this favourism of Ubuntu and Debian developers.
I run Steam in Fedora now and ran it in openSUSE before and I don't want to have to switch to a limited distribution for compatibility reasons or so. I would prefer if Steam ran on all the big ones and if they need a common platform that it simply installed a bunch of packages needed to have all that (or recommended that they was installed.)
At least for streaming purposes for compatibility it doesn't matter that it run Linux and it could possibly give a somewhat lower price for the machines (and for streaming purposes they would have less expensive hardware too so any dollar saved make a bigger impact.)
Valve just didn't deliver. I wanted to give SteamOS a try, but they don't even provide a disk image. Instead, it's a zipped folder with files to be copied to an USB drive. I still couldn't figure a way to make it an iso or something that VirtualBox will accept. Other than that, just reading the installation page, the whole thing still seems to be very crude. I thought it'd be interesting to see a major game developer pushing for Linux, but if I were to use Linux, why would I go with SteamOS instead of any of the several good distros that are already out there?
Circumcision is child abuse.
Tax?
It's $100 cheaper than the high spec CyberPower steam machine, the only difference is 4GB RAM instead of 8GB. Similar CPU and GPU.
If dell had no investment in the product line there would be nothing to repurpose or remarket.
Because there is that means there was... what is more, this is unlikely to be a long term product line since it is redundent with other products they're already selling.
Which means this product line will die out eventually. The only utility to Dell is in sustaining the product line in a fashion that can be repurposed again back into a Steam Machine or to exhaust sunk resources from the build up to what is likely a busted product line.
Use your brain. Think it through. Do the math.
You did none of these things. You came to a snap decision, threw out a preprocessed idea that you never achieved on your own but simply adopted without properly understanding, and then presumed to insult me simply because I rightly judged another person to be a fool.
What are you? Four years old? Small children have this reaction. They see people that are "mean" and they react against that instantly indifferent to context. A more mature posture would be to grasp that there are justifications for being harsh with people. And that it is not mean. It is just.
Act like a fool and be treated like a fool. That is reasonable.
Now because I'm sure you've got more ego then integrity, please hit me with another one of your sad attempts to brow beat me with your banal shallow grasp of wisdom.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
That's an amusing comment, given that one of these competitors is Microsoft!
People don't have memories. Nobody cares about Sony's past, or Microsoft's, etc. There's a console out...they want a console...they're going to buy a console from somebody...they're not going to rule out Steam because it was late a few or so ago, are they? I mean...why would they? It doesn't make any sense.
Apparently the hardware manufacturers have never heard of valvetime.
Say what you like, windows 8.1 is actually a pretty good OS by itself and probably a better choice in the long run anyway.
With Windows on it, this little machine can fulfill most of my needs for the living room / home and offers me a platform that i am already familiar with to play my games, (Steam supported not), get some work done (Office etc) and watch movies. I'm pretty sure it is also capable enough for some photoshop too.
Similar offers/formats are available from Intel, msi etc, bu this one seems to be the more powerful.
Basically, even with a "premium MS Tax" (whatever that is) it is now a more "allround capable" machine, which can easily replace my old dusty HTPC and make my aging workstation redundant.
Have you considered drafting your posts in Microsoft Word? It has a fantastic grammar checking feature that highlights errors with green squiggly lines. There may be enough green in your post to pay for the software in full!
You're a fucking retard, and are misusing the term "Microsoft tax". Those two things, combined with your OH SO COOL Zelda reference name indicate you're about 20 years old and need to kill yourself already.
blah, blah, blah, ANDROID PROVES THAT YOU ARE WRONG.
Linux vs. Windows doesn't matter if the user never sees it. It's like saying lack of WindowXP held back the PlayStation.
It used to be the case that buying a Windows computer would bring home something you're familiar with that will run all your software.
This is no longer the case. From a consumer perspective, a brand new Windows 8 computer/tablet may or may not run your software and requires learning a completely new, obscure user interface that also happens to be the very worst in the entire history of computing.
So, thanks to Microsoft, there is now high demand for a brand new consumer OS, providing it complies with several requirements (it is easy to use, and runs many or even most of the high profile apps and games). Unfortunately, the time window is slipping. Sooner or later Microsoft will release a Windows 9 that gets rid of the Metro nonsense and we'll be back to square one.
No.
But I wouldn't mind if my brain knew how to do it correctly and did so.
No?
The user obviously notice what software they can run.
What make Android successful against the competition? The same thing which make Windows popular. Software compatibility.
Linux doesn't have it when it comes to all the games on Steam.
Common, it's *Valve* we're speaking about.
They WILL deliver. Except that they will deliver on "Valve Time".
It will be as usual: wonderful, better than expectation, and *horribly* late.
What were they expecting? Given Valve's track record, they shouldn't have jumped on thing before knowing with certainty that Valve is ready.
They should either.
- start producing steam machine as soon as they can (as they did) but clearly state that these are *prototypes* and probably part of the functionality will be missing.
- or NOT jump on the bandwagon so quickly, and wait until Valve get their shit together (which could be anywhere between now and 2017) and then release a machine with all the features and the specs.
What Alienware did was as stupid as announcing a "special offer with 'Half-Life Episode 3' packaged in for free together with the machine!", and then not knowing what to do as Valve is delayed, packaging some random "Medal of Duty" instead.
Also, SteamOS actually, does work. The problem isn't Linux, the problem are:
- controller (are still tweaked)
- linux games (currently, steam OS works better as a light box to play your game on the living room's big screen/projector by *streaming them* out of a Windows war machine somewhere else in the appartment, rather than playing them directly there. Porting takes time).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
What other OS could they use that would have as good a chance of actually selling?
By the way:
- SteamOS *DOES* work
- XBox controller *DO* work under Linux.
As is, Dell will likely take a loss on this project which means it was a financial and business mistake to do this much with Valve until they were ready.
What the hell where they expecting? It's freaking Valve, with a track record to have completely random concept of "schedule".
Either Alienware should have considered this as a "prototype" (and SteamOS + XBox controler or Logitech or whatever would have been perfectly acceptable. With a paying option to get a Windows License).
Or Alienware should have waited until SteamOS is actually ready.
is moronnic. It is an opinion morons have... you are therefore a moron.
Namecalling is the best way to explain a point.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Cool, that leaves more for us gamers. I LOVE my Alienware. It's the highest quality laptop one can get.
Please research this "Just-in-Time manufacturing" that the AC mentionned.
Dell has *almost invented* the concept.
Their ARE NOT sitting on a bunch of thousands of useless premanufactured SteamBoxen that they need to get rid of. These box don't exist yet.
They don't even have a huge inventory of parts waiting to be assembled.
At most, what they have is a couple of prototype that they built in-house and that are ready to be replicated, once the orders start pouring in.
The problem isn't the stock.
The problem, as you mentionned yourself, is the money. Dell has some difficulties (current Asian no-name manufacturer are better than them at the JIT game [being closer to the manufacturing plants producing the part] and are outselling them).
They need to *SELL* something and they need to get diverse (selling as much new original and different products as possible. Selling only desktops won't cut it anymore).
They would have hoped to sell home consoles. Valve would have neen a nice way to have a piece of Sony's and Microsoft's pie. But Valve being Valve, there's no guarantee when they could sell official Steam machines.
So for now they settle in selling whatever else they can think of (a Windows-based living room machine), just to be able to sell something.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I do find it amusing the idea of a "gaming laptop". Build quality might be nice if you get something like Alienware, but the expense and lack of proper cooling or expandability kinda makes the whole enterprise seem a bit like selling ice to Eskimos.
Nah, they do. The issue is that if you blacklist every company which treats its customers like shit or with contempt (particularly tech companies), very soon you'll find yourself unable to buy virtually anything anymore since most things will either be made from or contain major components from said companies. You hate Foxconn and how they treat their employees for example? Congrats! No more consoles for you, no more motherboards for you, no more laptops for you and to some extent no more smartphones for you (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers).
We life in the real world where life is not black and white. I don't need a console or want a console anyway, but I do want to continue using computers and other technology. There are no alternatives to using tech from scummy companies, but you can at times have control over which scummy companies to deal with.
Repurpose them with FreeDOS of course! In the mean time while waiting for SteamOS, users can play Arkanoid or Wolfenstein 3D, just hope they included a PC speaker or buzzer else the PC will remain silent. BIOS emulation will give you USB mouse support.
When it comes to the games available on the Steam library, Windows plays everything and Linux plays a fraction. I know that things will get better for newer games, but for existing titles and particularly older games it's going to be an extremely small minority which get ported to Linux. People (gamers particularly) don't give a shit about the "holy war" between Microsoft/Windows and Linux - what is obvious is that Windows will run everything they want, with 100% support from developers and manufacturers of their hardware. Linux will not - it doesn't matter the reasons why, all that matters is that this is the state of things now and will remain so for a while. I mean, why else do people use computers in the first place? To define themselves via their choice of operating system, or to actually run the applications/games they want to run?
SteamOS via Linux has to provide some credible benefits to the user. Unless Valve develops something exclusive for SteamOS that you can't get on regular Windows Steam, then there is nothing that benefits the USER as opposed to Valve's benefit of not relying on Windows or buying Windows licenses for each SteamOS console.
If your games only run for a few years and then the new distro can't run them then it really sucks. I've been wondering if something like RHEL, Solaris or FreeBSD would be a better gaming OS than your typical distro. (Of course the latter ones would have bad hardware support, such as just nvidia for graphics, Intel and Realtek for sound and network, and get lost if you have anything else)
The most tragic thing in all of this is the whole concept of getting linux games from a single source, with DRM. No self-published games, no other non Steam publishers, no freeware, no shareware : that's all for Windows, with few exceptions. Maybe they'll be other stores eventually (like GOG) but for now, you rely on Steam to reliably run native games under linux (if you have suitable graphics hardware and drivers).
Well, at least I can play Counterstrike 1.6 on linux. That's all I use it for - it's reliable, uses OpenGL 1.x, I can alt-tab from it to lower the global sound volume and it's good. I waited like 7 years to play that game, lol. (I used to play the 1.5 non Steam version even when it was supposedly impossible to play anymore)
I'm not buying games anymore : I never know when Valve has "sales" anyway and filling the "library" with weird low quality games bought at 3 euros a piece just to try them out is boring. Importantly, I have no clear idea what benefit I would get from upgrading hardware in order to play more demanding games.. if there are like a grand total of ten of them?
Yay! Which one are you going to pick?
The one with better advertising, if console gamers are any indication.
Less freedom than what? An XBox, Playstation or Wii with locked-down hardware, that probably aren't ever going to support alternative software or game stores without jailbreaking? And good luck building a homebrew XBox or Playstation using your choice of components.
Steam seems to be the least worst of the game platforms.
The real test of a SteamBox is whether you can quit Steam, access the underlying OS and install other software. AFAIK that is eminently possible under SteamOS - whether Steam Boxes will be locked down is unknown (it would be a mistake).
It would be nice if that underlying OS was Linux, but it sounds as if Valve has dropped the ball. It's OK taking forever to create the next version of Half Life - but if you're relying on third party hardware manufacturers you need to stick to schedule.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Never used one I see. I have no idea what you're rambling on about with "proper" cooling, but my Alienware laptop has never overheated, nor does it even get very warm even after extended gaming sessions. And $1500 for a 17" laptop with a Geforce 770M isn't exactly expensive.
Expandability is absolutely an option, since the CPU is swappable, the GPU is on a replaceable MXM, it has dual drive bays and will accommodate up to 32GB of RAM. Externally it features a Mini DisplayPort, HDMI (switchable between output or input), four USB 3.0 ports and a multi card reader. That's all of the expansion I will need for a long time.
Alienware sucks anyway, not a big deal. Overpriced shit for people who can't put color coded computer components together themselves.
What nonsense. Game engines can target Linux runtimes now, this issue is down to Valve trying to reinvent the controller rather than simply supporting existing controllers. Valve fucked up, that's all there is to it.
Yeah, I know, it's /.
In this country, not doing business with monopolists would involve joining the Amish. Internet access is often a monopoly. Other utilities are monopolies. Besides, how long should such a conviction stay on a company's record? Should BP be boycotted because it bought Amoco, one of the Standard Oil companies?
Yeah, the support for windows games really needed to be better than, "and you can stream them from a windows machine that you also own"
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Good morning spelling Hitler! :)
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Linux and Unix is a Mainframe OS.
Unix then Linux which is based of the Unix design. Is from the old Mainframe days. Where it was used for multiple terminals connected a single Mainframe or server, where people did their work.
Linux came out when the standard PC got to 32bits (80386 era) and was powerful enough to support the workload of many of the lower/mid range mainframes. Originally so people could access and tinker with a Unix Like OS without having to spend big bucks to try it out, or get access to a place where you have limited access, or a place where you can create code for the Unix systems yourself. Now as the PC got more powerful the PC hardware based server became more popular. So Linux came to be the Server OS which is a natural use for the OS.
Then we have the Desktop user community, in general the Microsoft Haters, now they had a lot of legitimates gripes against Microsoft, so they tried to convert Linux into a desktop based OS, with some limited success however. Apple jumped on the bandwagon and Made OS X off of the Unix design. (Microsoft followed suit and made XP off of their NT (Server OS) kernel). So now all modern desktops are running off of Server OS's. Apple and Microsoft actually did a better job at making a Desktop OS, The Linux distributors did do a good job but just never fully caught mainstream for the desktop, Linux had a few starts, such as in Netbooks that lasted until the tablets and smartphones became popular. However Linux for the Desktop never made it big enough for other vendors to fully invest in Linux, thus creating crappy drivers that made games run poorly, or with too many glitches that they never caught on. Combined with a Radical GNU culture, which penalized game companies for not being Open Source, or the Hardware Makers keeping their secrets, so they tended to avoid that market as to not get all the rabid flame wars about being Open Enough for Linux.
Today Linux has made a good market in Mobile Devices via Android. But Google used the Linux Kernel but it isn't GNU/Linux. The same with Apple iOS is uses the Unix kernel but not OS X. But in many ways I am wondering why we are still using a server OS, for a mobile device?
Can we make it work? Sure no problem, but is it the best solution? Probably not.
PC Games have been Windows Based for generations. Is windows the best for games probably not, but because that is where the games are that is the OS people are going to get. Linux based Steam means you can only play Steam games. However not all games are available on Steam. and you have a better chance of getting new other games off of Windows then you would with any other OS.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The Japs did this. That is the MAIN REASON Jap cars came to the States as cheap (low cost) as they were. Now look at them. GM, et al. took decades to copy them Japs. And the other Jap stuff, too, not just cars. You may point to China, but who cares about China. It will implode Real Soon Now...
You can't blame Alienware for being lukewarm on an OS which Valve itself seems pretty lukewarm on.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Alienware is a business, not a fucking charity. They can't pay employee salaries on vague promises from Valve. When and *if* SteamOS is ready, I'm sure they'll make SteamOS machines. Until then, they still have to pay their rent.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
I'm surprised Valve don't strike a deal with Apple as iMacs undoubtly have more marketshare among consumers than Linux.
If you think the OEM charge for Windows is high, you should try licensing OSX sometime.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
for the hardware, the $550 list price for the specifications and form factor is not a terrible deal, considering that to build-your-own a windows license would set you back $100... deduct another $50 for the controller, and you're at $400 for a capable i3 system in a small package..... this is, of course, provided that the 'custom' nvidia graphics chip embedded in the system is worth anything.
Really, the only reason (for now) to have steam machines using Linux for the OEMs is to reduce the price. So the high-end steam machines are probably going to come with windows anyway. At least for now the low-end is where the Linux will be and it will stay there until more games (especially the more demanding, tripple-A games) support Linux.
In other news, anyone knows if these alienware machines are coming with steam and boot straight into big picture? The default settings is pretty important you know.
A lot of people were speculating that the whole SteamOS thing was just a stunt by Valve to discourage MS from launching their own service to compete with Steam on Windows (an implicit threat that they would launch a competitor to Windows for gaming). And it does seem like Valve are pretty lukewarm on SteamOS themselves, a pretty strange position for a company that's supposedly serious about making such a bold move.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Losing its steam, one might say. ;-)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
They would have shipped it with windows 7 pro and win 8 pro COA.
Yeah you got me. I've never used a gaming laptop. Possibly due to the fact that they all seem to have aesthetics designed to appear cool to teenagers, but come off as a bit too try-hard. I'm sure there's some remaining features of them; I mean Alienware's been around for ages, some people must be buying their stuff. Perhaps not the smartest of folks, but we can't all be sensible with our money can we?
Finally some are back to reality !
To be honest, I see Steam's streaming support as possible the best (only?) redeeming feature of SteamOS. Since it can only play a really small subset of the full Steam catalog, streaming's the best way to supplement the rest. But of course you still need a powerful enough PC somewhere else that can run the original game. A heck of a lot of console owners probably only have laptops and would be underpowered, since they focus their attention naturally on the console for gaming power. They won't have a chance of using Steam's streaming to supplement things. If SteamOS is going to be attempting to go against the consoles already in existence, it'll fail on that basis alone.
Oh it's not the worst ever. Consider Microsoft Bob...
UNIX isn't a 'mainframe' OS.
Linux came out when x86 got a BETTER MMU, it wasn't the first UNIX like clone on the x86 platform.
Linux may be a crappy desktop OS, but for a long time there were far more UNIX desktop workstations than there were Windows. Ask SGI, Sun, DEC and a few others.
Linux is not UNIX, OSX is a certified UNIX with far more desktop installs than Linux.
NT based workstations started with the original NT release. That was the point, not servers. NT Advanced Server came second. NT4 came with multiple SKUs from the start, one of which was workstation. Windows 2000 as well. XP was simply where they dumped the consumer branch as the workstation branch was ready for consumers, a plan they had in place since at least the 95 release era.
These aren't 'server' OSes, they are simply reliable kernels. You seem to think desktop OSes are supposed to be shitty and based on DOS with no memory management. You lack experience to know that only DOS/Windows and classic Mac OS suffered from these problems, pretty much EVERY other OS has been light years better.
Linux sucks as a desktop OS because the people who develop it WANT it to suck as a desktop OS, they actively work AGAINST commercial companies making products for it unless those commercial entities kiss the GNU ass.
Android went somewhere because a company commercialized it and essentially told the kernel fanboy club to go fuck themselves, "we'll do it ourselves". Note: Linus isn't the issue here, but the rest of the club is.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Of note is that Alienware is preconfiguring the computer to boot straight to steam. Microsoft has famously resisted OEMs dicking around with the installation for years (ever wonder why nobody sells a windows 8 computer ready to use with all the de-metroing apps pre-installed? From all the 8 hate, you'd think an "easy to use" windows 8 computer that looks like windows 7 would sell like fucking hotcakes)
Something big happened behind the scenes, whatever it was, my guess is that everyone got what they wanted from the Linux Steam box (except maybe Linux).
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
I donno, I see a lot more people that had an XBox that later bought an Xbox360, and now bought an XBox One, and others that bought a Playstation, then a Playstation 2, then a Playstation 3, and then a Playstation 4...
Come to think of it, we haven't heard much from Sega lately, have we?
Customers that become loyal often will stay loyal if the company continues to produce. When that company stops producing things that the customer wants, they jump ship. If the company never really gets anything off the ground in the first place then there aren't even enough fans to keep it rolling.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
You weren't going to anyway, shutup drama queen.
>This is moronic. They could simply have gone with any OS besides Windows. ...
No, *that* is a ridiculous idea. They've invested significantly in man-hours and hardware costs (dies, etc) to be able to produce a living room gaming machine - i.e. high performance, aesthetically pleasing, and probably a lot quieter than a traditional machine with the same specs. Those qualities all come with a premium and don't really lend themselves to anything other than a living room gaming machine. It can't really be repurposed into another niche unless they could sucker people into paying the pretty-and-quiet premiums for a machine where they don't really matter.
So, given that they've done the groundwork to produce a gaming machine, they are limited to an OS that supports gaming. SteamOS is unavailable, and no other Linux can offer the gaming compatibility and support promised by Valve - Dell certainly doesn't want to deal with customers disappointed because the promised ecosystem is not yet available, nor create their own gaming Linux distro which will only be rendered obsolete once SteamOS is finally ready. That leaves Windows as the only realistic option.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Considering that it is still locking in the Steam service for all games
I'd like to see a source stating that Steam OS users can't sideload other Linux-compatible games.
_If_ Microsoft made a successful game delivery platform / sold all software signed through their own store Valve would have much less left.
Is this supposed to be a dig at the Xbox One's underperforming sales figures?
There are no alternatives to using tech from scummy companies
Technically there is an alternative, but I don't see a lot of Slashdotters being willing to join the Amish.
The year of the Windows Desktop?
From a consumer perspective, a brand new Windows 8 computer/tablet may or may not run your software
Windows 8.1, Windows 7, and Windows Vista run the same applications, and they run most applications from the Windows XP era as well. Install DOSBox and you get most of your DOS apps back. What incompatibility are you talking about, other than Windows RT which is on its way out anyway or perhaps Windows 3.1 apps?
and requires learning a completely new, obscure user interface
If you're coming from Windows 95 or later, here's most of the learning you'll need: Click the desktop tile, open IE, go to ClassicShell.net, download, install.
I have gone through a very large number of laptops over the years. My Alienware has been by far the best of the group. I had alternative reasons for getting it as well though because through my employer I was able to get a great deal on one. You may think it a waste of money, but I considering how little I have had to do to keep it working right I have found the money to have been well spent.
Ignore the AC. It found only four spelling errors. Debian, openSUSE, favourism, and kinda. The first two are proper names, the third is a regional spelling, and the forth is nitpicky. It only found one grammar error. and that was the sentence fragment "So small advantages."
First of all, this isn't SteamOS we are talking about, it is Windows.
Which, unless it's Windows RT, will always allow sideloading from GOG.
Secondly, I'm not suggesting that you can't load non-Steam games. But you won't be able to do it sitting on your couch holding your controller.
The first step is to make a list of XInput-friendly games on GOG. The second is to add something like JoyToKey or Keysticks that adds DirectInput or XInput navigation to all programs on Windows, or perhaps even a specialized web browser that implements something like what Microsoft has done usably in Internet Explorer for Xbox 360. Barring that, use something like the Lenovo N5902A Bluetooth keyboard with built-in trackball.
and the considerable additional maintenance requirements that go along with a full fledged operating system. Considering that Windows has required more frequent patches for security issues than Linux for the past few years, that's not a trivial distinction.
To update a console's system software, the user activates a button "Install updates and restart". To update Windows, the user activates a button "Install updates and restart". Since Windows 8, Windows will apply downloaded updates in the background after 72 hours. What's the practical difference?
As an example, how long has it been since you've updated your smart TV or DVR as opposed to your desktop or laptop?
I was under the impression that DVRs tended to update in the background whenever TiVo or your cable company pushed out an update.
A lot of people were speculating that the whole SteamOS thing was just a stunt by Valve to discourage MS from launching their own service to compete with Steam on Windows
Microsoft did end up launching such a service, called Windows Store. Its games support only keyboards, mice, and Xbox 360 controllers, not non-Xbox 360 joysticks.
This is moronic. They could simply have gone with any OS besides Windows.
They can't go with Linux because their Steam contract forbids it.
They can't go with OS X because Apple forbids it.
They can't go with Windows because some Anonymous Coward forbids it.
Those three OSes are the only three that run Steam.
So what is this any other OS that runs Steam that isn't one of the only three that runs Steam?
Oh it's not the worst ever. Consider Microsoft Bob...
Hey now, don't you go insulting Microsoft Bob that way; its interface made sense! Each room was a logical collection of programs, customizable with objects you could add that represented applications. It was customizable, the groupings were logically connected (rooms in a house are an easy-to-grasp metaphor), the theme of the room corresponded to the type of applications present (parlor, office, etc.), and once launched the applications ran as normal.
Plus there was that adorable dog!
The only problem with Bob was that it was just a glorified launcher, not really different to Program Manager with groups titled "Accessories", "Games", "Productivity", etc., so there wasn't much point to it.
my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
If Bob was really just a prettified progman.exe, then perhaps people should be making fun of fsn from Jurassic Park too.
And frankly, if you are going to blacklist any company that sells Microsoft-powered computers then you must have very limited range from which to choose
in all modesty, i do, i've been doing it for years and i'm perfectly fine with what i get. needless to say, i like games a lot, but not at any cost. of course not at the cost of being stick-carroted around by corporations. that just isn't fair game.
if more people did the same we would all benefit from better technology and entertainment. yes, you can! start now! :-)
I think it's quite the opposite actually. I imagine in high enough volumes OEM licenses would be pretty cheap.
The stupidly high retail licence costs and low volume OEM licenses are there to make it look like its worth more than it is.
I can buy a laptop for $388NZ. The cheapest I can get Windows OEM for is $135. That's makes it seem like a good deal - $388 laptop with $135 of software for free. The retail Windows 8.1 is $284.
I wouldn't be surprised if Asus only paid Microsoft $10.
Isn't this up to the customer? If they don't want windows they ask Dell/Alienware to bundle something else. Unlike the cheap computers they sell there is still customization options left for these higher end computers. They have hardware that they want to sell, they can not just shove them into a warehouse for a year, these machines are going to be sold, either with just generic windows or customized in some fashion to appeal to gamers, the steam machine was just a distant idea.
And booting up directly to steam big picture mode, why would anyone want that? It appears to just be a big store with a deficient UI that makes Windows 8 Metro look smart.
What's your alternative? They have to sell the machines they have and sitting around waiting for vaporware will just lose them a lot of money. People who want games and are buying gaming-oriented hardware sold at a premium price do not just want a generic Linux distribution with office applications. So Windows is the only viable choice they have.
I think Alienware was a bit naive and credulous if they built all these machines under the assumption that they would always be steam machines, it is more likely these were all going to be windows machines originally and some were put aside just in case Valve was ready in time.
This is Alienware, ALL of their machines are high end expensive gaming machines. There are no alternative operating systems besides Windows, and they can't repurpose the hardware and make business machines (yes, they're a subsidiary of Dell but their parts chains are not so tightly integrated that they can do that).
They could do just-in-time, but typically they are prebuilt so that they can be shipped at a moment's notice. The just-in-time is there to backfill what is sold. Their machines are mostly identical to each other and intended to run Windows. The steam machine plan was just to bundle in a separate controller but the laptop would be identical to the windows laptop as far as the hardware is concerned. So the steam machine plan falls through because it's unavailable, so they replace controller with an XBox controller (which dovetails into the news that Microsoft allows using XBox controllers with Windows now).
Right, sensible like buying some cheap crap Lenovo, Asus, Toshiba or HP that overheats and falls apart if you even look at them wrong.
I bought an Alienware because it's the best value for the money. It cost only $200 more than the other laptops that I was considering for purchase, yet it blows them away in both performance and build quality.
This is moronic. They could simply have gone with any OS besides Windows.
Like what? It's a machine built for gaming so the OS of choice in the absence of SteamOS is Windows.
They could have recomissioned machines for another purpose.
Or they could do what they did and provide a gaming machine which is what it is designed for.
There is a difference between "spiting microsoft" and "not doing business with convicted monopolists."
Yeah that was years ago, the game's already changed, Microsoft doesn't even have a monopoly in personal computing anymore.
There are countless choices. It is not as simple as your imaginary scenario.
But no other viable ones for this product.
Parent saw the business world is about making friends and sucking up to the powers that be.
Wrong, it's not the "powers that be", that was the fallback option - the primary choice was the open, free one but that failed spectacularly.
Yes, and you wonder why some people do not like Microsoft. A boycott is a just response to a monopoly.
So don't buy the product then, stop bitching about its existence and go help come up with an alternative.
The truth is "someone else will just give them money and do business with them, so it is OK for us to" is a child's line of thinking.
No it is that if people want this kind of product then in the absence of an alternative they will buy this one. The free alternative had its chance and it didn't deliver.
Sucking up is now considered a virtue, "egoless" in your words. Fascinating.
Nobody is "sucking up", you just want to blame everybody else just because you are shit. If you can't deliver and somebody else can then that's your failing, you just can't bring yourself to admit it.
But they should care about FOSS and they should hate Microsoft and they should sell it with SteamOS to please everybody here even though nobody here would buy it anyway because it's Alienware and they are overpriced and you could build a comparable system for cheaper.
For a community of supposedly smart people some of the logic around is fucked up beyond belief.
Yeah you got me. I've never used a gaming laptop. Possibly due to the fact that they all seem to have aesthetics designed to appear cool to teenagers, but come off as a bit too try-hard.
So your reason for not using a gaming laptop is due to what they look like? There are many valid reasons people do or don't want a gaming laptop, but yours comes across as shallow and, ironically, childish.
Yeah you got me. I've never used a gaming laptop. Possibly due to the fact that they all seem to have aesthetics designed to appear cool to teenagers, but come off as a bit too try-hard. I'm sure there's some remaining features of them; I mean Alienware's been around for ages, some people must be buying their stuff. Perhaps not the smartest of folks, but we can't all be sensible with our money can we?
I'm not so concerned about the aesthetics but if Alienware laptops are overpriced then what is the appropriately priced alternative?
People don't have memories. Nobody cares about Sony's past, or Microsoft's, etc.
It's not that they don't have memories, it's exactly as you pointed out: Nobody cares. Relatively how many Sony customers do you think cared that they removed the OtherOS option from the PS3? Relatively how many Microsoft customers do you think cared that IE was the default browser on Windows or that they added proprietary extensions to Java?
You might care about those things and you might think that other people should care about those things but in reality they don't and outside of some extrapolated "but it's a slippery slope" theory, why should they?
From a consumer perspective, a brand new Windows 8 computer/tablet may or may not run your software
A new Windows 8.x computer will run your software.
and requires learning a completely new, obscure user interface that also happens to be the very worst in the entire history of computing.
The launcher is different, big whoop. All my software runs and operates exactly the same as it did before.
I see this as Valve delaying the release of the controllers and Alienware going for the next best controller around, the xbox wireless 360 controllers and Micro$oft saying that will only allow the bundling of the controllers with a Micro$oft OS system.
I'm pretty sure I'm smarter than you'll ever be.
QED
Thanks for removing all doubt about your maturity, or lack thereof.
The premice behind Dell and Co, etc. approach is to have a little inventory are possible. That also means using generic parts that they can swap arround.
They are probably not sitting on 10'000 of unused "Steam Box" cases. Very likely, they have a contact with a chinese manufacturer who can quickly supply them small-form factor cases, that they will use for any small-form-factor machine (HTPC, Consoles, etc.) It's probably a variation of the same small-form-factor box that Dell is using as a "enterprise light desktop", with only a different front plastic piece to look a bit more console-y or more HTPC-y depending on needs.
If they have anything less re-usable than that, it is completely suicidal (specially given that it's Valve we're speaking about) and Alienware deserve any problem that they have (the main problem being that they are going to otherwise get beaten by no-name asian manufacturer who are able to use custom part at a higher turnover, simply because they are the building right next to the plastic plant)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
So instead of just simply using Windows and only needing one computer you need 2 computers to stream the games?
You have a chicken and egg problem.
- Gamers install Windows instead of Linux because most of the games are sold for Windows.
- Most of the developer make Windows games, because that's what OS the gamers have.
Valve needs an OS do be less dependent on Microsoft. So they develop a Linux version of Steam and create a Linux-based "SteamOS" distribution on which to run it.
Over time, there are going to be games. But right now there aren't much.
Just right now, its one of the best solution that Valve could come up instead of just staying here and bitching about the chicken-egg situation. (And it's better than relying on unstable solution like Wine, or relying on virtualisation which would be taxing on the hardware of a console's small form factor).
For now as a beginning, the remote streaming is the fix they manage to quickly patch the Game library problem (and also the power limitations too. You just can't fit the equivalent of a high-end gaming PC with 2x dedicated high-end graphics cards in SLI, RAID HDDs and SSDs, etc. in a small diminutive box under the TV. Either you accept having less advanced graphics [the same compromise which pushed AMD APUs in home consoles] or you do streaming. Future iteration of steambox, following Moore's law will probably have better GFX, simply because they came later)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
So with SteamOS delayed, what was Alienware supposed to do? Delay shipping the machines till 2015? Think about it for a second, by that time, most of the hardware that is going into these machines would be at least a generation old even if they currently have the latest and greatest hardware (ie Intel Core i7s and Nvidia 800 series graphics cards). Now, if that were to happen, I am certain there will be a lot of complaining and blacklisting because Alienware have decided to ship machines with outdated hardware in some sort of conspiracy against SteamOS. Poor Alienware, just can't seem to get a break -.-'
Just-in-time manufacturing avoids having excess inventory, but R&D is a cost that can only be recouped through selling inventory. They invested money in designing the case and need to recoup that investment. Seems fair they are not taking that design and selling it with Windows on it.
So with SteamOS delayed, what was Alienware supposed to do?'
alienware can do as they please. all i'm saying is that i will not buy any m$-infested hardware.
my point being (sorry for repeating myself but i guess it wasn't clear to everybody) that if we all abstained from buying dishonest crap, better alternatives would naturally get a boost. i.e, as weird as it sounds, you can effectively stop crap from invading everything by simply not buying it. :-)
Well, the alternative is to either sell a real product, OR sell nothing while waiting for Valve vaporware. Guess what really companies that really have to stay in business do.
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