Slashdot Mirror

"The Brexit will be a bit of a re-adjustment for a couple of months, especially after (finally?) invoking article 50, but all in all, it'll just be a footnote in history. In 5 years time, no-one will even remember what the fuss was about, and things will continue to run as they did before."

I think the real reason for all these vague threats coming out of the EU Commission is fear that this is that GB will not be the last to exit the 'Union'. Especially given the treatment of Italy, Spain and Greece. Matters not that the Greek people voted against the the so called ‘austerity measures’, their EU overlords had spoken. ref

That'll be effective: http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2013/07/06/nsa-rejecting-every-foia-request-made-by-u-s-citizens/

LaTeX is excellent for journal and technical book publishing and some other applications, but it was not designed for collaboration over the Web, and for full multiformat output.

BookType, and its predecessor Booki, are designed for collaborative authorship around the world and for multi-format output, including HTML, PDF, print-on-demand, and others. The original development was sponsored by FLOSS Manuals, http://www.flossmanuals.net/ which creates manuals for Free Software applications. I have worked on manuals with them for How to Bypass Internet Censorship (now available in Arabic, Farsi, Chinese, Russian, and more), Firefox, the Linux command line, mifos microfinance software, and more, and they have dozens of other titles. FLOSS Manuals also pioneered the Book Sprint, collaborative writing of manuals by 8 or 10 people (writers, subject-matter experts, editors, artists, tech admins) gathered in a room, and several others (particularly proofreaders) over the Web within a week. We did the Censorship book from Monday morning to Friday evening in a rented house in upstate New York, ordered copies from Lulu.com, and then went out for dinner. Pics available, such as https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102331710307773485600/albums/5634256041091466881/5634256041835752050

Since then I have become Program Manager for Replacing Textbooks at Sugar Labs, the Free Software and OER partner of One Laptop Per Child. The rationale for the program is that netbook and tablet computers such as the XO-3 cost much less than printed textbooks, and have many other advantages in any school system, but especially for poor children in developing countries. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_textbooks, http://booki.treehouse.su./ Our mission is to end poverty and the various other ills associated with it. This includes unnecessary disease, disability and death; oppression of the poor and minorities around the world; much of government corruption; and wars of oppression or plunder. Naturally, more is required than computers to accomplish all of this, but it cannot be done without giving every child unfettered access to information and to other people around the world. See, for example, http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2011/02/15/sharing-in-gaza/

Sugar Labs plans to host book replacements in every traditional school subject, and whatever else our students need, at every level of development in every language needed. I am currently working on an Algebra text where every math statement can be copied from the document and pasted into a software session to execute and if desired plot or graph. There are more than 100,000 other OER packages available at various other Web sites that we have listed. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Open_Education_Resources

Does that apply to the 9/11 terrorists too, or does your statement apply only to anti-India terrorists?

I didn't have those in India on my mind when I said that "One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter." Actually at the tyme I was thinking of Israeli Independence fighters, or terrorists. Irgun, the predecessor to today's Likud political party was even classified as a terrorist group by the new Israeli government after independence. Lehi, commonly called the Stern Gang, split off from Irgun, was another. Not only were these groups fighting the British with such acts as the King David Hotel bombing, but they were also in communications with NAZIs before and during WWII. In 1948 Irgun and Lehi attacked the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin where 107 were massacred. Deir Yassin is still remembered. And guess who was an Irgun leader... Menachem Begin. Ariel Sharon led Israeli troops in the Qibya massacre. Here are more crimes of Ariel Sharon. And here's a list of more massacres in Palestine.

In 1956 David Ben-Gurion said of Arab Palestinians "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."

But he wasn't the only Zionist that wanted to expell Arab Palestinians. The Jewish group and magazine "Tikkun", which I read regularly, has the article The Long Path Out Of Denial: Zionism, Heartache, And A New Vision of Israel and Palestine.

Hell Israel even attacked the United States, in attacking and sinking the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967. But don't let reality and facts bother you.

Falcon

That's only because Palestinians either fled or were driven out of Israel. If Palestinians had the same Right of Return as Jews then Israel's Jewish population would be overcome.

There are 32 countries with more than 75% of muslim population, some of them with more than 99%. Total area of muslim countries is around 30%, take or give. And its not just any land, its fscking oil rich land.

What the fuck dies that have to do with it?

In these muslim countries jews are not even allowed to own property. People can't even enter these countries with an Israeli passport, not even for tourism.

Citation required. Of course you may not provide one but unless I am provided evidence of it I will not believe your claims.

Muslims in Israel are allowed to own property, vote and enjoy the same rights that the jews have.

Unless of course Israelis want that land. And if not just Muslims but others too have the same rights then why are Muslims being Massacred? For more check out Google's results for Israeli Massacres and A Brief List of Massacres in Palestine. No less than Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion said ""We must expel Arabs and take their places ... and if we have to use force ... to guarantee our own right to settle these places -- then we have force at our disposal." The Tikkun article was written by a Jew and Tikkun is edited by Rabbi Michael Lerner so this is not an anti-semetic shot, includes quotes from other Israeli founders as well. Such as Shlomo Lavie who declared that "transfer of Arabs out of the country in my eyes is one of the most just, moral, and correct things that can be done." Another said "All moral enterprises are carried out through compulsion.... The transfer [of Palestinians] is a just, logical, moral, and humane program in all senses" (quoted, along with the three prior quotations, in Nur Masalha's The Politics of Denial of 2003).

So how is that Jew became the majority in Israel? And do none Jews really have the same rights?

Falcon

That's only because Palestinians either fled or were driven out of Israel. If Palestinians had the same Right of Return as Jews then Israel's Jewish population would be overcome.

There are 32 countries with more than 75% of muslim population, some of them with more than 99%. Total area of muslim countries is around 30%, take or give. And its not just any land, its fscking oil rich land.

What the fuck dies that have to do with it?

In these muslim countries jews are not even allowed to own property. People can't even enter these countries with an Israeli passport, not even for tourism.

Citation required. Of course you may not provide one but unless I am provided evidence of it I will not believe your claims.

Muslims in Israel are allowed to own property, vote and enjoy the same rights that the jews have.

Unless of course Israelis want that land. And if not just Muslims but others too have the same rights then why are Muslims being Massacred? For more check out Google's results for Israeli Massacres and A Brief List of Massacres in Palestine. No less than Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion said ""We must expel Arabs and take their places ... and if we have to use force ... to guarantee our own right to settle these places -- then we have force at our disposal." The Tikkun article was written by a Jew and Tikkun is edited by Rabbi Michael Lerner so this is not an anti-semetic shot, includes quotes from other Israeli founders as well. Such as Shlomo Lavie who declared that "transfer of Arabs out of the country in my eyes is one of the most just, moral, and correct things that can be done." Another said "All moral enterprises are carried out through compulsion.... The transfer [of Palestinians] is a just, logical, moral, and humane program in all senses" (quoted, along with the three prior quotations, in Nur Masalha's The Politics of Denial of 2003).

So how is that Jew became the majority in Israel? And do none Jews really have the same rights?

Falcon

Did you read what I wrote before responding?

Not only did I read what you wrote, I even included the part you wrote, Honestly I have no problem with Israel relocating/segregating the Palestinians, I was replying to in my post.

As for the rest of your post, there wasn't the hatred you wrote of "The hatred they have for each other is ingrained from birth an cannot be resolved" was not there before or during WWII. It only cam with the founding of Israel. Israeli founders wanted to ethnic cleanse Israel. Don't believe me? Take the words of some of Israel's founders. Try for instance some of those quoted by Tikkun, a Jewish group.

"Shlomo Lavie, a well-known leader of the Israeli Labor Party, the Mapai, declared that the 'transfer of Arabs out of the country in my eyes is one of the most just, moral, and correct things that can be done.'"

Or another Mapai leader, Avraham Katznelson, who "felt that nothing was 'more moral, from the viewpoint of universal human ethics, than the emptying of the Jewish state of the Arabs and their transfer elsewhere.... This requires ... force.'"

Or take the Israeli massacres against Palestinians. Irgun and Lehi, who the British in the British Mandate called terrorists. No less than Ariel Sharon led Israeli troops in the massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya. Hell Lehi even offered to work with the NAZIs. Wiki and Google, that wiki article is the first Google result, provides brief lists of Israeli massacres against Palestinians.

Now tell me again how separation will end all the problems in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and that Israeli expansionism and ethnic cleansing aren't part of the problem.

Falcon

Some in Israel are or were fighting Arabs. And that includes Israel's Founding Fathers. Avraham Katznelson "felt that nothing was 'more moral, from the viewpoint of universal human ethics, than the emptying of the Jewish state of the Arabs and their transfer elsewhere.... This requires ... force.'" In the same article David Ben-Gurion said "We must expel Arabs and take their places ... and if we have to use force ... to guarantee our own right to settle these places -- then we have force at our disposal."

Oh, and note that that website is not antisemitic or anti-Israel, it is the website of the Jewish group Tikkun run by Rabbi Michael Lerner. "Tikkun" means "to heal, repair, and transform the world."

Falcon

identifying the people who go to the gas chamber

I don't know if there were databases, other than paper files in file cabinets, but if so then they could also be used to keep track of European Jews who wanted to emigrate. See, it's a fable or lie to say the NAZIs wanted to exterminate all Jews. What the NAZIs wanted was to get rid of Jews in Europe. The NAZIs actually signed an agreement with the Zionist Federation of Germany to assist Jews emigrate to Palestine. This agreement was the Haavara (Transfer) Agreement and was signed in 1933. As late as 1940 NAZIs were aiding Jews move to Palestine. Heck the Stern Gang or Lehi offered to fight with NAZI Germany against Britain. Back then Britain called them, the Jewish Stern Gang as well as others such as the Irgun and the earlier Haganah, terrorists.

Those early Jews were Zionists who wanted an ethnically purified Israel for Jews only. David Ben-Gurion, who Declared Israel's Independence and was it's first prime minister, stated "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army." In the article The Long Path Out of Denial: Zionism, Heartache, and a New Vision of Israel and Palestine the Jewish magazine "Tikkun" has more quotes from some of Israel's founders, such as this one:
Shlomo Lavie, a well-known leader of the Israeli Labor Party, the Mapai, declared that the "transfer of Arabs out of the country in my eyes is one of the most just, moral, and correct things that can be done."

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Falcon

The majority of Americans don't want this legislation

While that is likely true, many of those people from "the majority of Americans" don't want it because they believe the BS that the "main stream media" and the various conservative activists are telling them. If they actually knew what was in it, they would oppose it for a different reason entirely.

OR single payer

I am not aware of a statistically meaningful survey that ever asked Americans if they wanted single-payer health care. It is almost always a loaded question when it is posed that doesn't really pose the issue honestly.

Most people voted for change, they got more of the same. That we can agree on.

Indeed I do agree on that. This bill does not represent anything resembling real change. The change it will bring is so slight and trivial that it is barely worth the paper the bill is printed on. Indeed the concept of change isn't that different in and of itself from the idea of Obama versus the real Obama.

Judaism does not interpret the written Torah (what you call the Old Testament) literally. Instead, one uses the oral Torah (oral tradition passed down through the generations) to interpret it. Wikipedia explains this in greater detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah

The main point is that some passages, such as "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" are not meant to be interpreted literally. Also, more importantly, it is nearly impossible to carry out a death sentence in Judaism because you have to:

1) Have two unbiased witnesses that saw a person do something wrong
2) Went up to him and warned him what he is doing is wrong
3) He acknowledged he is aware what he is doing is wrong and acknowledge he is aware of the consequences
4) The witnesses report this to the Sanhedrin (Supreme Court) and if the person is found guilty, the witnesses must be the ones to carry out the sentence -- this made most witnesses reluctant to report.
5) Rabbinic attitudes concerning the death penalty are also reflected in statements such as "a Sanhedrin that effects an execution once in seven years is branded a destructive tribunal." Rabbi Elizer Ben Azariah said "once in seventy years." Source: http://www.tikkun.org/rabbi_lerner/Death%20Penalty

I could go on. In short, Judaism does not take the attitude you mentioned above.

My understanding is that the main problem of Islam is their attitude towards people of differing religions. Specifically, Jews don't go out of their way to convert non-Jews to their faith nor do they hold non-Jews in some form of disdain. They don't believe that non-Jews go to hell or that they are immoral in any way. Jews believe that they have been assigned extra responsibilities above and beyond other religions -- so Jews are supposed to follow the 613 laws whereas non-Jews are supposed to follow only a subset of those laws (7 to be exact). This is discussed in more detail here: http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

It is my understanding that Muslims who convert away from the faith (even to securalism) are sentences to death. I find that kind of problematic. It is also my experience that Muslims do not believe the Koran is open to interpretation, and this rigid mentality leads to some problematic results. It's fine and good so long as everyone holds a moderate interpretation of the Koran, but radical Islamists are going around preaching their violent interpretation instead and telling their followers that anyone who interprets it differently is committing Blasphemy and must be killed.

Islam is a very young religion in the grand scheme of things so maybe it just needs to be given time to mature. Hopefully one day it will be more accepting of "the other" and put this conflict to rest. Until that day (which could be thousands of years away) we're going to need to take more proactive measures to defend ourselves. Islam's "silent majority" is either unwilling or unable to crack down on its extremists.

And here I'll just point out that Judaism, Islam and Christianity are simply branches of the same sect, all three of which base their religion on the "Old Testament"/Torah/Tawrat.

One professor I had put it this way, paraphrasing, "Judaism is the law, Christianity is an interpretation of the law, and Islam is the practical application of the law." Of course Christianity adds and changes some as does Islam. But then again Judaism may of borrowed from Zoroastrianism the idea of the Dualism between good and evil. Darn, I thought I read an article along this line in the magazine "Tikkun" but I don't see it on the website.

So how do you explain the legions of anti-Zionist Jews in the peace movement who are sick and tired of having their voices drowned out by the shrill Likudnik lobby?

We have a fifth column of a political party from a foreign power in the fourth estate and government halls of power in this country, manipulating America to fight its wars. It's that simple.

"All this happened in the open, with fanfare, to make a public example of McKinney--so that every senator and congressperson would know that criticizing Sharon is tantamount to political suicide. Not content with this flexing of power, the pro-Israel lobby--which consists of Jews and extreme right-wing Christian fundamentalists--is now pushing the Bush administration to start a war in Iraq. This, too, openly and in full view of the American public. Dozens of articles in the important newspapers point out the Jewish pro-war influence as a plain political fact."

--Uri Avnery, "Manufacturing Anti-Semites"