Domain: togethersoft.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to togethersoft.com.
Comments · 23
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Re:Perhaps it's an economic issue.Unfortunately, a debugger that can catch bugs in requirements or specification definitions cannot be built.
Though there are tools (like those that come in TogetherSoft's ControlCenter) that can take metrics on your diagrams or code and figure out some bad styling or design pattern non-conformance, but still that's not debugging.
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Re:Rational Rose
Agree except with your conclusion that Visio is superior. You just can't compare Rational Rose to Visio bcause Visio is basically just a vector drawing tool with some stencils and templates. Visio can't generate source code from the models.
But Rational Rose is crappy indeed. It's amazing how the guys who invented UML managed to end up in such a mess of code. Together ControlCenter is how a good modelling tool should be like.
This deal does not make any sense to me. If IBM was serious about buying a good software company, the would have bought Togethersoft. I guess Togethersoft simply was not interested in a deal with IBM. -
The agony of JBuilder
JBuilder is wonderful on Mac OS X, but Borland's licensing and support terms just suck methane -- $2999 for a new Enterprise license, but then it's $1899 a year to keep it updated. No significant volume discounts, and their tech support is next to worthless in our experience. Their free support option is a newsgroup staffed by "TeamB," which seems to be comprised of volunteer pre-teens who probably know a lot more about PlayStation 2 than they do about Borland products. Seriously, go read the newsgroup yourself sometime. It's pitiful. We've got a bunch of JBuilder licenses but we stopped upgrading them because the list of new features was so impressively weak for close to $2K.
I have friends who rave about IntelliJ IDEA, and there are lots of other options, like Together ControlCenter.
Anything written in Java will probably run on OS X, even if it doesn't say it on the box.
Have you tried using the developer tools that come with Mac OS X? ProjectBuilder is a decent Java IDE (though I miss JBuilder's Code Insight feature in a major way when using PB).
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TogetherSoft
http://www.togethersoft.com/
TogetherSoft has a Mac OS X version of their Control Center product. I believe there's a free trial if you wanna check it out. Developers here are using it now for Java work, albeit on Windows and Linux. -
Together
Together from TogetherSoft is an excellent reverse-engineering package for C++ and Java. There is a free eval that does most everything, but will not print or export diagrams. The full-version license is pretty pricy (around $3k) from what I hear, the website doesn't list a price.
Also, to find references to particular methods and subroutines, LXR is very useful. LXR is designed for use with the Linux codebase, but it is generic enough to be used with any C/C++ project. It takes a couple of hours to get running, but it is free and very cool. I just wish it would support Java.
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Re:3D Artists?
For a piece of software used for 'development', yes it is cheap. Have you purchased a nice software modeling tool lately? My small company was looking at Together by TogetherSoft, until we realized that it comes at 4-6k (USD) PER SEAT. 299 is cheap, when the software in question is not a toy, but a business tool. (heck, even visual studio costs more than that).
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Re:File Linking
Together can do this for you.
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Two favorites: Together and JBuilderAs IDEs go, my two favorites are Together (Control Center being the pricey but feature-laden version) and JBuilder. Both have different strengths; I evaluate them from the perspective of an architect/developer doing all sides of J2EE development (from JSP to session EJB to entity EJB).
TogetherSoft Together Control Center
One thing immediately noticeable about Together is that it includes a modeling tool, which is why it is often compared to Rational Rose. But while Rose (as far as I understand) is ONLY a modeling tool, Together is also a development/deployment environment, including a code editor, debugger, and--perhaps most useful--the brains to do J2EE application assembly and deployment, i.e. WAR and EAR files. This means that you can describe your EJBs--for example, using various dialogs to map entity beans to tables--and Together will write the deployment descriptors for you. This is especially useful for CMP entity beans, the deployment descriptors for which can get pretty hairy! Support is included for a number of applications servers, from JBoss to WebLogic 6.1. Another nice thing about Together is that it has a source code formatter built in: press a hotkey combination and it will format your source according to rules which you define. Yes, there are standalone tools that do this, but having it built in is pretty slick.
Together does have a few drawbacks: it doesn't support graphical Swing layout like a tool such as JBuilder, but if you're doing server-side development anyway, this isn't such a big deal. I also don't believe it helps out with JSP development either, although again for my purposes I don't see this as a big deal.
Borland JBuilder Enterprise
My other favorite--perhaps because I worked for Borland for two years--is JBuilder Enterprise. While it doesn't include the design tools of Together, it's a good all-around IDE nonetheless. One of its strong points is its Swing layout tool, which is the best I've seen (although lately I haven't kept up very well with the capabilities of other products). There's also a JSP editor/debugger, which I haven't used extensively. JBuilder 5 adds EAR assembly and deployment, although I believe it has support only for Borland AppServer and WebLogic (they may have added a couple more application servers).An Alternative: IntelliJ IDEA
Both Together Control Center and JBuilder Enterprise are full-featured IDEs (Together is actually a design tool/IDE). If you don't need all the J2EE bells and whistles, or the Swing layout tools, and are just looking for a solid programmer's editor, I've heard great things about IntelliJ IDEA. In particular, Martin Fowler (of Refactoring fame, among other things) swears by it. It does have a number of good refactoring tools in it.Conclusion
All of these are good tools with various strengths, weaknesses, and price tags. I believe all of them offer an evaluation version, and I believe Borland and TogetherSoft still offer basic versions for free (as in beer). Any one is worth a look.Cheers,
Jeremy -
IDE - Editor or round trip engineering tool?
Well, as always, the text editor itself is really up to you - I use the ubiquitous emacs along with the fantastic jdee IDE that installs inside emacs for syntax highlighting, quick toolbar access to your classes, and easy creation of class from templates.
If you are serious about writing good OO componentised java though, its almost essential now to use a decent UML tool during the design stages and further like rational rose / together.
One of the nice things about together is that it works by placing javadoc comments inside your java - so your design documentation is never out of step with your source. Invaluable.
I don't work for together - but I do find their tool helps me visualise the workings of complex systems without remembering all the methods and stuff.
So if I had to put a finger on it - let developers choose their editor/IDE themselves, but get all developers to use a UML tool independant of the IDE.
Mr Thinly Sliced -
IDE - Editor or round trip engineering tool?
Well, as always, the text editor itself is really up to you - I use the ubiquitous emacs along with the fantastic jdee IDE that installs inside emacs for syntax highlighting, quick toolbar access to your classes, and easy creation of class from templates.
If you are serious about writing good OO componentised java though, its almost essential now to use a decent UML tool during the design stages and further like rational rose / together.
One of the nice things about together is that it works by placing javadoc comments inside your java - so your design documentation is never out of step with your source. Invaluable.
I don't work for together - but I do find their tool helps me visualise the workings of complex systems without remembering all the methods and stuff.
So if I had to put a finger on it - let developers choose their editor/IDE themselves, but get all developers to use a UML tool independant of the IDE.
Mr Thinly Sliced -
Go the java / webstart way
Java is a good way to get O.S. software running on you Windows PC.
Check sourceforge.net for java based softwares (mostly dev. tools).
Please, don't say java is not yet ready for real app.
Look at the GUI and performance of products like
together http://www.togethersoft.com/
IDEA http://www.intellij.com/
They are real fast, and user-friendly (esp. IDEA)
Another even easier way is java WebStart
- an application-deployment technology -- gives you the power to launch full-featured applications with a single click from your Web browser. You can now download and launch applications, such as a complete spreadsheet program or an Internet chat client, without going through complicated installation procedures.
If you have a fast access, having installed on your PC is just a mattre of minutes.
Once it's installed on your PC, you are 1-click from installing and launching full applications in 1-click. Just find a link to their server, click, and watch :
- it downloads from a server all the application required files, cache them on your PC, and launch it.
- later calls will use the cached files.
- when a new version of the application is available, the system will offer you to install automatically.
WebStart apps repositories :
http://www.up2go.net
http://www.connectandwork.com/external
http://www.puzzlecode.com/puzzlecode/jnlp
Alain Ravet -
May be worthwhile for Java client appsThey were at JavaONE showing off their stuff this summer, and had a prerelease of this distribution. According to the technical salesman, they have licensed Java and created their own Java Runtime Environment that is optimized for GUI client apps. Seeing it run, it looked a lot smoother and faster than Sun's or IBM's on Redhat, but I wasn't comparing the same hardware.
Java has proven itself plenty fast for server side stuff, but screen I/O has been a downfall. If Caldera has a really good client gui JRE, it might be worth the $59 for those using Together, Forte and homegrown Java gui apps. (I'm still coding in Vim).
Of course, I haven't really seen 1.4 on Redhat yet. It's in its second beta now, and it's supposed to have much improved graphics performance.
Now this is assuming the Caldera guy wasn't pissing in my ear--I can't find any mention of a custom JRE on their web site.
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What about UML modeling tools?Most of the people here seem to equate GUI development environments with RAD tools for fast building of UI forms (dialogs, etc). [I do not mention the "IDE aspect" here, since few would call Emacs a GUI tool, but it can be a full featured IDE nevertheless]
There is another class of GUI tools, however, that allow you to incorporate UML diagrams within your design and development process. I guess that the two programs that best represent this class of "modeling tools" are RationalRose and Together.
RationalRose is more popular, since it was out first, and essentially set the standard, but it supports only a one-directional process (unless that has changed recently) -- design your UML diagrams, and generate code from them (some OO people actually see this as an advantage, but that's another discussion).
Together, on the other hand, is bi-directional -- it constantly updates the UML diagrams to keep them in sync with the code you are writing. As a result it has the neat property that you can actually write your code w/o going through the UML modeling/design stage, and yet you get complete UML diagrams of the code when you are done.
Personally, I am ambivalent about the utility of RAD tools for building GUIs -- they can be great for quick prototyping, but on the other hand they tend to produce code that is not very maintainable and thus not too suitable for large commercial application (although a lot of people are so used to them, that it is hard for them to see the alternatives).
On the other hand, UML modeling tools can be tremendously useful, especially in team environments. A picture is worth a thousand words, and that is very true even in programming. Even if you do not use UML for design, Together's ability to generate diagrams representing the code is invaluable when you have to take over or maintain someone else's code. It is much easier to see how classes relate to each other at a first glance, than to try to figure that out by going through the code manually.
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Re:Is java cross platform?
There are some successful examples of very big Pure Java applications running cross-platform. Borland's JBuilder and TogetherSoft's Together are two very notable examples.
JNI doesn't necessarily mean platform-dependance, just that you have to provide equivalent functionality for the other platforms you support, whether that's in Pure Java or using JNI calls. For example, you could use JNI methods to write log information to the Event Log on Windows NT/2000, or normal Java I/O to write to standard text-based log files on any UNIX-compatible system. That doesn't mean you're platform-dependent.
(Note very carefully - I'm not saying Java is truly platform-independent; just cross-platform capable without a ton of porting work or a complete recompile.)
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Re:Not really useful
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Re:Automatic layout from DDL?
The Together tool from Togethersoft will ingest things and spit other things out, from DDL to C++ to EJBs. Cost $$, but they have to keep Peter Coad in beanbag chairs and whiteboard markers. Most excellent C++/Java object modeling and development tool, and they've been enhancing their database stuff - at least get the 30 day free trial
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Re:you're right about soffice, butTogethersoft's Together Control Center. http://www.togethersoft.com.
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Re:language=input device?
This is a very good point. There are new input devices for programming becoming available. I am an embedded systems programmer, and I recently got a CD from IAR Systems which contains a demo of a state-chart graphing program that also creates source code to match the structures drawn on-screen. A company called TogetherSoft makes a product called Together, which draws UML documents (diagrams?) including state charts and umm... whatever you call those diagrams that look like state charts but show objects instead of states. I believe it also does some of the (most of the? all of the?) source code generation. IAR works on products for embedded systems, TogetherSoft works on products for larger systems. (I don't work for either IAR Systems or TogetherSoft, BTW.)
The flow of graphs is a lot easier to perceive (imagine, create, manipulate, debug) than a one-dimensional sequence of statements. Productivity can be boosted significantly by using such tools. I don't think there's a tool out there that can, (for all applications and under all circumstances,) surpass the power, directness, control that you get from hand-writing assembly code (which is what I spend most of my time doing). But I definitely believe these can be very useful, powerful, time-saving tools in themselves, under the right circumstances.
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Re:Unfair review?Well, I've read it - I own it. I've met and talked with Mr. Coad hisownself, and used his tool... the tool's better than the book. Hereafter is my opinion of the book, as an OO designer/developer of several years' experience:
Chapter 1 is the concept he's describing, modeling in color. Coad defines four archetypes, and associates a color with each. He gives examples of how to classify your classes according to these archetypes, and works into thinking in terms of them. He then introduces another abstraction, the "domain-neutral component," which is a large diagram template which can be customized to fit your particular situation(s). I had a bit more of an issue with this one. It seems useful, but I'm not sure that it doesn't stunt your thinking.
Chapters 2-5 are examples, in gory detail. He and his coauthors have defined 61! different domain-neutral components (which I honestly would call domain specializations of his overall Domain-Neutral Component). It's a catalogue, with fair descriptions, but I wouldn't put this into the category of Design Patterns, quite... I'm really not sure how to classify these things. (Have to think about that some more.) If you're familiar with OO, reading through this will educate you on the thought processes used to generate these things, and if you happen to have a problem that has pieces that fall into these 61 bins, you're set!
Chapter 6 is a departure. Feature-Driven Development is a "how to build what you've designed" process, and really doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the book. I found it useful (as I've posted elsewhere), but it's a jarring departure from the monotony of reading the catalogue of components. Well worth reading on its own - but not worth the cost of the book.
Appendices have large (readable) versions of the archetypes, and modeling tops.
Now - a bonus tip from Me to You. Go to Coad's company's web site ( Togethersoft ) and download their modeling tool (IMHO, beats the tar out of Rational Rose). Then, ask them nicely for a 30-day evaluation license, and do their tutorials. The tool does these components, and GOF Patterns, and lots of other fun things, and has a tutorial and examples of the Modeling in Color (although not Feature-Driven Development) from much of the book. Save your cash and do it in software
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Re:This book goes best w/"Java Design"I've heard Coad give his 1-hour talk on this, and used his tool (Together, which makes Rational Rose look very obsolete). It can add some context to UML diagrams, and we were able to communicate pretty well with a graphics-brained UI designer using the color models.
I own this book, and I was honestly disappointed. I'd like to see this combined with "Java Design" and given some more fundamentals-of-OO/UML, maybe a sprinkling of component-based architecture, and then I think he'd have a heck of a book. On its own - it's thin.
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Re:Java/JBuilderI would prefer to teach a programming language and not the use of an IDE. JBuilder seems much to complex to me for this use. I would like to have a kids version of VisualAge -- this is really object oriented and visual thinking.
Maybe Together might be an option -- going the UML way instead of writing classes in plain old text. Unfortunately the whiteboard edition doesn't offer the compile options but this shouldn't be that big problem with some big buttons for scripts aside.
Peter
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TogetherJ
You might want to check TogetherJ:
They have a free(feature limited) version available
The site is http://www.togethersoft.com
Otherwise, dia from the gnome project is looking really good, even if it's not Java... -
Re:Relationship to Open Source?Good points. I don't think there really is much relationship between SE and Open Source.
As an individual, I could use some SE methods to develop an Open Source app, but who does that? No one I know of. I actually think that it might work and produce some good quality stuff if they did. Especially if all the people working on it have access to the same tools.
One important issue is the tools. KDevelop may be nice, but how does it help you do software engineering? It doesn't. What we need is quality CASE tools. ArgoUML shows promise but is lacking a lot of features and is still early on in its development. Together/J is pretty nice, but you need the commercial version to get all the features.
I have never seen an open source app that deals with requirements and design documentation. The thing we like to be able to do in industry is trace (follow) requirements to their implementation in design and code.
And then there's version control. CVS doesn't have all the features of something like ClearCase, but bitkeeper is looking good.
Why does so much commercial software suck when compared to open source? Probably lots of reasons. Market timing pressures, poorly documented legacy code, bad management. But maybe the most important one is lack of large scale peer review. In open source there are a lot of fresh faces who are free to come in and say:
"This design sucks!! We should scrap it and start over and we will come up with something better. Fine, i'll do it myself in a few hours."
You'll almost never see something like that said (out loud) in industry.