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Java Development Environments for Macintosh?
spacecowboy420 asks: "My company (with my persuasion) has decided to move from a Windows platform to a Macintosh. The issue that is slowing this move is one of software solutions - more specifically a Jave IDE and Sales Contact Management software. We have been using JBuilder and Act!. Jbuilder is available for mac but is pricey, but the real rub is we need an IDE that supports the JClass Libraries (which Jbuilder does, but we would like to consider an alternative). Act! also doesn't have a mac version, so I am in new territory when it comes to mac contact solutions. What solutions have the Slashdot community found to be the best? What are the thoughts on Power Builder (although I know it doesn't support the JClass Libraries)?."
Can't help you on the JBuilder aspect of your question, but I may be of help on the contact management/sales datatbase side.
There is a product we use that is web based and very robust called Onyx.
--Mike
These are questions you should have asked and answered before presenting anything to management.
The Mac ships with Java 1.3 but not yet 1.4 (afaik), and for that reason is not an ideal platform for Java development. Linux, Windows and Solaris are ideal platforms -- shouldn't you look at them first?
This is obviously just an ideology game on your part, and you aren't putting your company's business needs first. You should not be in charge of IT decisions.
I love Macs, too, but if you have to Ask Slashdot, you are not a professional.
And this from someone who migrated to the Mac? No offense, but switching FROM JBuilder is mostly a downgrade, it's considered one of the best Java IDEs if not THE best.
Sorry!
Try using salesforce.com, a web-based ASP of CRM software, costs about $60 per user/mo though but they host and operate the software and data for you, so you can access it from any browser wherever you are!
try a look at NetBeans. Opensource'd under the Sun Public License, cross platform IDE that's written in Java and works quite well. Works for 1.3 or better.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Think about this. You're spending thousands to license JClass. Apparently you're doing some heavy-duty enterprise applications, so you're spending tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands on hardware, bandwidth, etc. Plus you're spending similar amounts on programmer time.
Yet now you want to skimp on the one tool you use to tie all these expensive pieces together. At most this will save you $3K per programmer. Probably a lot less. If using a less effective tool delays your project just one week, you do not come out ahead. Does this strategy make sense?
TUTOS might be a good contact manager for your sales team, and project planner for the programmers. It is a web-app (PHP-MySQL) so it will immediatly solve any cross platform issues. (Do you all use mac's) Plus when your sales guys are on the road they can access info over the web, and if you have progammers who work from home then they can use it to update a projects status and submit billable hours.
I understand that JBuilder can be expensive for a small company but it is worth the money. I use a mac here at work, but have a linux, and windows machine at home. JBuilder works on all three platforms.
Use XEmacs with the JDE module.
Best Java IDE I've ever used.
How is EMACS at form design?
It's called "Project Builder" it has complete support for java. It's also free and comes on the Developer Tools CD for Mac OS X. It has support for CVS and other niftyy things I'd imagine you'd use. Check it out.
Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
Personally, I really like ProjectBuilder for java development. PB is developed by Apple and comes free on the Dev Tools CD with Jaguar. It's primarily used for Cocoa/Carbon/Kernel projects, but also fully supports Java, and does a damn good job of it, IMO. On Windows, I use CodeWarrior for Java development. I like it, but after years of using CodeWarrior, I became a PB convert almost overnight. And Apple runs a PB interest list that the PB developers actually read and respond to on a very regular basis.
In the interest of full-disclosure, I should mention that PB doesn't have all the whiz-bang features of other Java-specific IDE's, like RAD GUI development, and the like. At least not that I'm aware of. But, personally, I've never had much use for stuff like that anyway. So, I haven't investigated what, if any, "extras" like this PB has for Java development.
My only real complaint is not with PB itself, but with Apple's slow uptake on new JVM's. I love the way java is just part of the OS. But, I hate how long it takes Apple to catch up to the latest version of the JVM. They've said that this will change. And I know that 1.4 is currently in beta. But still, 1.4 has been out for Windoze/Linux for ages. And 1.4.1 is now available (which has a slightly different class file format, and fixes some memory management issues in 1.4.0). So, when Apple does finally release 1.4, is it going to be 1.4.0 or 1.4.1? I don't know. But I sure hope they can get things more in sync than they are now.
IDE's are for wimps: Use JEdit -- it's a free text editor with some very powerful plugins for java.
Eclipse is a very nice Java IDE. I think it is much much better than ProjectBuilder, mainly because the latter lacks code-completion. Eclipse works great with CVS, unit-tests, debugger, you name it.
Furthermore it is:
- 100% Free
- 100% Open Source
Although there are no builds available for macosX I know it can be done, a colleague of mine had it running on his ibook a few months ago.
Eclipse is a great IDE. We have been using it in a large development project for close to a year now.
Eclipse has very good integration with CVS, has one of the best diff tools I have seen in an IDE, supports code hot plug in the debugger (you can change code while stopped at a breakpoint in the debugger, and when you save your changes, Eclipse will compile and use the newly written code) with JDK 1.4, has TomCat integration and a thriving community of plugin developers.
The only problem is, the MAC port is a work in progress, and is slated for release real soon now. Take a look at it here.
emacs has been around for years and years and is very robust and powerful.
vim (based on vi, which has been around for years and years) has been around for a really long time and is extremely powerful.
Both are far more powerful development environments than ANY IDE or any editor (sorry JEdit) and can interoperate with ANY SYSTEM YOU CAN THINK OF.
Learn them now!
(Oh yeah, use ant or make for building your system. Preferably make, but ant is easier when are you just starting and is more cross-platform)
http://www.naildrivin5.com/davec
I suggest either Palm Desktop (really - it has a good contact manager), Now Contact or Jaguar's Address Book. Depends on what you need, though, and none of these is an exact analogue of Act!
I'm not familiar enough with Java development on the Mac to make recommendations. Pity that the RTFM idiots have now taken to trolling in Ask Slashdot, or you might have gotten better answers on that.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
Sun has developed Forte for Java which is based on netbeans. It now goes by Sun One Studio. Anyway, it is a nice IDE and users at my company are generally split 50/50 between that and JBuilder. They have a free Community version as well as some commercial versions.
Now and up to Date by Power on Software comes from the Act! mac port. When Act dropped it, Power on picked it up and it now runs on OS X. I've used it for a while now, and was able to import some stuff from an Act! user.
Real programmers don't use Java. They don't even use high-level languages!
This is the best IDE around for a reasonable amount of money. You can get to it at http://www.intellij.com. I used to use Eclipse on the Windows platform before switching to this because it works everywhere - it supports refactoring, and its fast ... damn fast. The moment I saw it refactor a filename all the way into CVS and fix other files in CVS that imported it, I knew I'd found the right product for me.
...why are you switching to the Mac?
Emacs and VI are quite powerful, both offer a rich variety of features. However, while they are suitable for IDE's they are not really ideal in this area without a lot of customization, tinkering, knoweldge of eLisp, and time.
Time isn't cheap. Time is expensive and precious. It's the one resource you or I can't replenish. I'd rather use an expensive IDE that saves me time rather than a potentially better editor that requires weeks to learn (yes, I already know them both quite well, but that's because I've used them for about 4 years now).
This is the reason I use Apple's IDE. It's easy to set up, it's very professional, has a nice debugging feature and class browser, and gives you lots of useful feedback. Sure, I can't program an MP3 encoder in LISP and have it run from my text editor, and sure, I might have to use the mouse periodically with it. So what? It saves time compared to the slow process of getting emacs set up just the way I like it or setting up a series of scripts to automate tasks I'd run from VI.
Interoperability isn't really an excuse. Source is saved as ascii text. The only area you could possibly have trouble is line breaks. They're all interoperable.
In a real dev environment, time saving dev tools such as an IDE are essential.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I don't know anything about Act! or how you were planning on using it with or without Java. I also can't really comment on a CRM system for Mac.
As far as JClass and an IDE go. Take your pick. I personally prefer Intellij's IDEA. You could use VIM, WebSphere Studio or NetBeans if you want. The JClass stuff is pure JavaBeans, which means you get to do drag and drop programming in any IDE's GUI builder.
Since neither IntelliJ or VIM have GUI designer's it looks like you prolly want NetBeans or JBuilder.(IntelliJ's beta releases also require JDK 1.4, so that may not work on Mac for a while.)
I personally don't like the way NetBeans works, but if your looking for a cheap solution that will allow you to use JClass in a GUI designer it's the way to go.
Quite frankly, you don't sound incredibly knowledgable about developing Java solutions. Don't take that as an insult, just an observation since you left out a lot of information pertinent to your question. Do some more research using Google next time. Most of your questions can be answered if you better understand your problem.
You can use JClass in anything you want. Import the Jar's, make sure they're on the classpath, then write the code by hand that accesses the classes and methods in your own code. The fact that they're JavaBeans allows the GUI designer to automagically load up the properties and provide you with a visual way of laying out the components and hooking them up together. Read more about JavaBeans if your interested in this. You should be writing your own JavaBeans to speed your internal development. BTW, XDoclet now supports JavaBeans, so you can generate all the extraneous classes required by IDE's from the actual Beans source code. It's pretty slick.
Stay away from Powerbuilder. I'm currently developing a J2EE solution in a Powerbuilder shop. It's a nice self-contained environment, but it doesn't integrate well with others. I have no personal experience try to do this, but the other developers on this project have been writing Powerbuilder apps around here for the past 8 years. If you don't think you'll ever have to integrate your powerbuilder apps with anything else, it's a fast and easy solution. It's also pretty powerful for data entry and reporting. Just keep in mind that after 8 years of Powerbuilder, these guys chose J2EE.
Good Luck
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
Look at CodeGuide from OmniCore. Nice IDE, nice MacOS X integration. We've been using it for six months now.
I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.
with much gayness,
Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.
For better answers you should post your question on MacSlash
If you want to use a program that lives and breathes Mac, then you should use CodeWarrior by Metrowerks. It's quite a bit cheaper than JBuilder and also features C/C++ and ObjectiveC compilers along with Java. Most Mac applications have been written in CodeWarrior and it has been the defacto standart development environment on the Mac since forever. I've been using it for 6 years for everything I ever do. It have Java RAD tools (though I think JBuilders are better) that are OK and get the job done. It also has code completion that includes a JavaDoc explanation of each method/class that are available, something that I JBuilder doesn't have. CodeWarrior is also a native Mac application (as opposed to Java) so it's quite a bit faster than pure Java IDEs.
I use both JBuilder and CodeWarrior at work (JBuilder for laying out the GUI and CodeWarrior for everything else) and I spend 90% of my time in CodeWarrior. I think it's just much more polished than anything else.
As far as a JClass alternative, try out PopChart by CORDA Technologies.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Check out the O'Reilly Network here:
6 /o sx_java.html
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/04/1
It's a quick overview of the Java IDE's available for OS X, namely IntelliJ's IDEA, Borland's JBuilder, Apple's Project Builder, the open source NetBeans/Sun's Forte, Eclipse from OTI and Jedit. The article was written in April so it may not be entirely current as to what's available but it should get you going.
Codewarrior is the best IDE I have used every anywhere. It supports Java as well as older languages. It runs on Windows and Solaris as well as Mac. It originated on Mac and runs "best" there, though I've personally been using it equally well on both Mac and Win to develop java apps professionally for the last 5 years. It's worth every penny.
Not sure exactly what you mean when you say you want your IDE to support a specific class library. I've used lots of 3rd party class libraries with CodeWarrior but don't know of anything "special" it does regarding any of them.
There may be a free trial version at www.metrowerks.com.
-- Jeff Rogers
jeff@jeffrogers.net
http://www.togethersoft.com/
TogetherSoft has a Mac OS X version of their Control Center product. I believe there's a free trial if you wanna check it out. Developers here are using it now for Java work, albeit on Windows and Linux.
Dear Father Randy,
It has come to our attention here at Microsoft, that you have recently purchased a Macintosh. This explicitly violates the "No other vendors because I like the way Microsoft bites by balls" contract which you signed when you first became a Bill Gates Male Groupie. We must ask you to cease all contacts with Apple and related machines, or we will be forced to cut back on your supply of custom Soiled Bill Gates Boxers. Further violations will cause you to loose all access privlages to the BOHICA box.
Signed
Microsoft Corporate Sex Toy #1265
[note to moderators: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes you just gotta]
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
this product called daylight looks kinda cool... http://www.marketcircle.com/daylite/index.html also saw this when I was trying to find their site: http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Apps/Business.html good luck.
You are an idiot. What you should say is - I'm from IT and know everything.I give answers. I NEVER need to ask questions. You sir are what is wrong with IT.
I use NetBeans and it works great. They claim OS X is ready to run it on their site.
I thought JBuilder was a 100% Java App. So shouldn't you be able to run your current copy of JBuilder (presumably you got it for Windows) on OS X without having to purchase a "Mac OS X" version?
I use a Powerbook and love OS X. However, I have to disagree that Apple's VM is the best one out there. I *will* heartily agree that it has the very best integration with the OS. The modified Swing looks awesome and uses regular Cocoa-type controls.
However, I do a lot of development of server-side stuff and benchmark most of them on my 800MHz/1GB RAM Powerbook against my Linux PIII-500, and the PIII is at least 4 times faster for any program (and usually quite a bit more than that). Exact same bytecode, compiled and written on the Powerbook. Executes many times faster on Blackdown's JVM.
Perhaps it's just the processors, but you'd think my G4 would be faster than my PIII.
It's simple the best, and comes in both single-user and networked versions.
Check it out!
http://www.marketcircle.com/
Although there are no builds available for macosX I know it can be done, a colleague of mine had it running on his ibook a few months ago.
I've heard several rumors about Eclipse running on OS X, but indeed, there seem not to be any builds of it generally available. I know that the major obstacle is porting SWT, and I know that the effort was supposedly going pretty well.
What's the current status of Eclipse on OS X? If it works, why aren't there any binaries out there? What gives?
Eclipse is pretty nice. I'd love to be able to use it.
JBuilder is wonderful on Mac OS X, but Borland's licensing and support terms just suck methane -- $2999 for a new Enterprise license, but then it's $1899 a year to keep it updated. No significant volume discounts, and their tech support is next to worthless in our experience. Their free support option is a newsgroup staffed by "TeamB," which seems to be comprised of volunteer pre-teens who probably know a lot more about PlayStation 2 than they do about Borland products. Seriously, go read the newsgroup yourself sometime. It's pitiful. We've got a bunch of JBuilder licenses but we stopped upgrading them because the list of new features was so impressively weak for close to $2K.
I have friends who rave about IntelliJ IDEA, and there are lots of other options, like Together ControlCenter.
Anything written in Java will probably run on OS X, even if it doesn't say it on the box.
Have you tried using the developer tools that come with Mac OS X? ProjectBuilder is a decent Java IDE (though I miss JBuilder's Code Insight feature in a major way when using PB).
of course
littlefinger aches
regards
John Jones
For sales contact/CRM on OS X, check out Marketcircle's Cocoa-based Daylite:
http://www.marketcircle.com/daylite/index.html
Eclipse.org is now making the Mac build of their outstanding Java IDE available on their download page. This version is using a native carbonized version of the SWT All 2.1 stream drops after September 18th include a Mac build.
In a slightly off but related topic. Does anyone know the status of the 1.4 jdk? I know they had a Jaguar only beta out a while ago but it seems to have dissappeared. OS X has pretty good support for the 1.3.1 jdk, but Apple seems surprisingly behind on 1.4.
Have a look at Daylite, http://www.marketcircle.com/, it offers similar functionality to Act. It is availible in single and multiuser versons, but is Mac OS X only.
- Netbeans to code the guts.
- BlueJ to set up the big picture classes.
- JEdit to make quick changes that don't require auto-complete overhead.
- vi when it's really a quick fix.
Over the weekend I grabbed Netbeans 3.4 which features what seems to be improved auto-complete and now floats javadoc notes.If you're newish to Java and you like the simplicity of Macs - have a look at JJEdit. It's a nice, easy to use IDE written exclusively for Mac OS X.