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Why does it even matter?

Some selected stories of the harm caused by people's misplaced belief in homeopathy:

What's the harm in homeopathy?

http://whatstheharm.net/homeop...

This is the page on homeopathy, but If you go on the home page you will see more of such stories for other woo stuff.
 
Homeopathy should be properly labelled as containing no active ingredient whatsoever , a bit like the big black label on cigarettes, or even downright banned until it pass the same STANDARD test on animals and human to demonstrate the advertised effect.

This is why

http://whatstheharm.net/homeop...

Tl;dr lots of dead children

Exactly. A friend of mine is such a homeopath. She studied for years at university and is required to perform ongoing study and annual tests to verify she hasn't forgotten.

She treats her patients in addition to their GP, not instead of.

When the drugs your GP is prescribing do not work, having something else to try or even just someone else to talk to about your health is extremely valuable. Keeping a positive attitude is everything, since the alternative might simply be suicide.

http://whatstheharm.net/

In this case, the harm is that she's (a) taking a patient's money that could be spent on other treatments that might work, or even on cocaine and hookers and a last weekend in Vegas (or some other end-of-life blowout/celebration the patient might have had), (b) in the unlikely event that a chemotherapy-resistant tumor undergoes spontaneous remission, her patient will credit the quackery, not the chemotherapy, nor even dumb random chance, for the remission, and in so doing will encourage others - with treatable disease - to seek out quacks and charlatans before using medicine.

Your friend is a quack, a fraud, and she is still causing harm.

Some evils are just more evil than others.

http://whatstheharm.net/homeop...

The HIV deniers are pretty awful. Especially the ones who convince mothers to stop giving their AIDS ridden children medicine. http://whatstheharm.net/hivaid...

You can fuck off with that holocaust comparison though.

The Christian Science Monitor has been around for a long time and has a strong record of integrity and high quality reporting.

Mary Baker Eddy established the CSM because she wanted a news source that wasn't "anti" Christian Science. The major papers of the day ridiculed her, called her a dangerous quack, etc. She was all of those things - and couldn't logic or reason her way out of a paper bag.

You know how people select news sources that fit their world view? Yeah, she went out and *started* a news source that fit hers.

While owned by the CS

And therein lies the problem. You're supporting a cult that believes medicine is the work of the devil, and that if you get sick, it's because you deserved it / didn't pray enough. They're a cult that has latched onto the word "science" to give themselves credibility.

You're supporting a religion whose belief system actively kills people, including children, by teaching that prayer is effective at curing things like a burst appendix.

They are a CULT. STOP SUPPORTING THEM.

"...contrary to opinions from the anti-science crowd, " Any article that begins with a put-down of a generalized segment of the population in my opinion is already tainted with bias. I'll look elsewhere for reliable information, thanks.

The article is "tained with bias", but only because just calling them anti-science is too damn generous. They're an anti-science child-killing cult. Just because someone has an extremely negative opinion of X doesn't automatically mean they're biased. You need to educate yourself on the matter before you can make the judgement. You might find the opinion is deserved.

Starting out life as a good little Catholic boy, I've slowly moved to the position that I'm now anti-religious. http://whatstheharm.net/ My Dad is not happy with me, but he prays for me to see the light.

And for concrete examples of why magical thinking is bad for us, go to this site: What's the harm?

I'll make no further comment on your alt-medicine nonsense, others have already ripped you a new one. I'll simply refer you to this site.

Nope
Not one single injury
EVER

Look at every strip mall in your area, odds are there is a Chiropractor. Coincidence?

Well let's see... To be a chiropractor dose not require the intensive medical a normal physician requires, nor does it always require the same licensing and insurance requirements, and insurance companies readily pay for the services because it's cheaper and odds are the patients don't have medical problems so significant that placebo treatments won't placate them. Yeah, I can't imagine why chiropractor offices spring up like weeds...

For the relatively small number of people who genuinely have skeletal-muscular issues that chiropractors can actually help with, that's fine. Maybe. For everyone else it's snake oil.

Deaths and paralysis That's just from a quick google for "chiropractic harm", there are MANY MANY more.

Here's the thing - we're all gonna die in the end, so all these fights against proprietary formats won't mean jack.

In that case, so is replying. Yet you seem to care enough about justifying your position (perhaps to yourself) to reply, so don't give me this nihilistic bullshit.

In life we pick the battles we can fight. These are potentially important issues, but basically given you're effectively saying about 90% of people are part of the "problem", I don't give a fuck anymore.

When 90% of the people are part of the problem is when I absolutely do care.

Take another battle I've picked: Religion. There's a small minority which does some really crazy shit. And they get away with it in the name of "religious tolerange", because a majority of the world believes enough crazy shit of their own that it takes a lot to make us as a culture say, no, you can't let your child die because you'd rather fucking pray than get help.

Easily 80-90% of the US population is religious, which makes it a safe bet that you are, too -- probably also Christian, probably believe faith is a virtue. If so, merely by supporting the idea that faith is a virtue, you are encouraging yourself and those around you to turn off their critical thinking and skepticism when the situation calls for it. That kind of thinking leads to atrocities. Never mind that merely by calling yourself "Christian", you lend credibility to these fuckwits.

Am I going to win? Not really. I do hope to reinforce separation of church and state, to promote actual science education instead of "Intelligent Design", and to establish some basic rights the religious would deny, like the right to marry. I'd love to see people tolerate less of the extremists. I really doubt I'm going to see the religious become a minority in my lifetime.

But you know what? I'd like to think that when I'm lying on my deathbed, I lived for things that matter. I'd like to think that I'd still be the kind of person who would be ashamed to think I gave up because it was too hard, or because there were too many people who disagreed with me.

Life shouldn't have to be some damn crusade.

You're right, it shouldn't. But this is the world we live in, and there are some issues which tend towards exactly that -- either you're a good little worker propping up the status quo, or you're actually helping to move things forward.

And life should be meaningful -- and it's up to you to find that meaning. Maybe you honestly don't care, but that's not what I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is that you do care, you're just too lazy to do anything about it anymore.

Yet somehow, you're not too lazy to post, and to try to justify how much you don't care. That says a lot.

Here's the thing - we're all gonna die in the end, so all these fights against proprietary formats won't mean jack.

In that case, so is replying. Yet you seem to care enough about justifying your position (perhaps to yourself) to reply, so don't give me this nihilistic bullshit.

In life we pick the battles we can fight. These are potentially important issues, but basically given you're effectively saying about 90% of people are part of the "problem", I don't give a fuck anymore.

When 90% of the people are part of the problem is when I absolutely do care.

Take another battle I've picked: Religion. There's a small minority which does some really crazy shit. And they get away with it in the name of "religious tolerange", because a majority of the world believes enough crazy shit of their own that it takes a lot to make us as a culture say, no, you can't let your child die because you'd rather fucking pray than get help.

Easily 80-90% of the US population is religious, which makes it a safe bet that you are, too -- probably also Christian, probably believe faith is a virtue. If so, merely by supporting the idea that faith is a virtue, you are encouraging yourself and those around you to turn off their critical thinking and skepticism when the situation calls for it. That kind of thinking leads to atrocities. Never mind that merely by calling yourself "Christian", you lend credibility to these fuckwits.

Am I going to win? Not really. I do hope to reinforce separation of church and state, to promote actual science education instead of "Intelligent Design", and to establish some basic rights the religious would deny, like the right to marry. I'd love to see people tolerate less of the extremists. I really doubt I'm going to see the religious become a minority in my lifetime.

But you know what? I'd like to think that when I'm lying on my deathbed, I lived for things that matter. I'd like to think that I'd still be the kind of person who would be ashamed to think I gave up because it was too hard, or because there were too many people who disagreed with me.

Life shouldn't have to be some damn crusade.

You're right, it shouldn't. But this is the world we live in, and there are some issues which tend towards exactly that -- either you're a good little worker propping up the status quo, or you're actually helping to move things forward.

And life should be meaningful -- and it's up to you to find that meaning. Maybe you honestly don't care, but that's not what I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is that you do care, you're just too lazy to do anything about it anymore.

Yet somehow, you're not too lazy to post, and to try to justify how much you don't care. That says a lot.

Hi, speaking on behalf of the medical field, we've known a bunch of this for years. Which is why the accusations from the Anti-Vax mob about "Pushing Poison" on behalf of "Big Pharma" was so infuriating. This asshole lied about MMR and other vaccines because he was pushing his own vaccine. He's done incalculable harm, for his OWN profit, and his supporters accused *us* of being immoral profit slaves.

And this includes all you soft-spined assholes who would take the stance of "Well, I'm not saying they're right, but maybe they have something, there are a lot of concerns right? What harm is there to letting the parents decide if they're uncomfortable?"

Hope the truth burns, folks.

What is it to you?

He replied to me.

Are you offended by this?

Well, I'm not a doctor.

But yes, if I did a good job at what I do -- which might mean working very hard, many sleepless nights, managing to pull off a miracle -- and if my boss said "Thank God that got done," I'd probably be pretty annoyed, yes. God didn't do that, I did. Even if it was God acting through me, doesn't it seem fair that I should get a raise in that case? Would you have my boss give God a raise instead?

Realistically, I would probably try to swallow an irritated outburst, realizing that I'm reading far more into this than the person intended.

Still, it's one of a number of things we say thoughtlessly which are really quite sinister. For instance, suppose a school bus is bombed and one child survives. You might be tempted to say it's a miracle, right? "Thank God!" But you're implying that God deliberately let every other child on that bus die a horrible death. And, if you think about it, you're implying that God did nothing to thwart the bomb, thus causing all those deaths and unimaginable agony for the child who survived. That's all on top of trivializing the work of the police, the paramedics, and the ER doctor, to name a few.

If God is as useless as you claim to be, then of what harm is his belief?

A great deal.

We who believe in God (I'm a muslim microbiologist) thank God for allowing us the opportunity to become what we are,

That's depressing -- your tone suggests that you're very grateful God didn't completely thwart your plans.

...when good things happens to us, we thank God, when bad things happens, we ask for his protection and we say "insyallah" (God Willing) when we plan for the future.

In other words, you've created a great way to never be able to show that God was actually responsible for any of this. What you prayed for happened? Praise God. What you prayed for didn't happen? That's not evidence against God, clearly he just didn't want to give you what you asked for.

http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html

Do you have any idea how lucky you are?

If people want to play games with their own lives, that's their call. However, exposing children to these kinds of risks isn't just irresponsible, it's criminal. If your stepson had died as a result, you and your wife would both be in jail.

Actually, re-reading what you wrote, I see that you were responsible enough to actually take the kid in for surgery after giving him the "medicine". That's great. Unfortunately, there have been many cases where other couples have rejected medicine entirely, choosing to subject their children solely to homeopathic and "natural" solutions. For instance:

Last year in Melbourne, Australia, Isabella Denley, an epileptic toddler, died after her parents ditched the anti-convulsant medication she had been prescribed by her neurologist. The drugs had terrible side effects, including sleep loss and hyperactivity, so they turned to alternative therapies, visiting a vibrational kinesiologist, a cranial osteopath and a psychic who told them Isabella was suffering from a past-life trauma.

An inquest heard that when she died, the toddler was exclusively on homeopathic medication. Her parents believed they were doing their utmost. But clearly the potential pitfalls of Cams go beyond ruthless charlatans. Indeed, the real peril may be our faith that alternative therapies will inevitably reach - and cure - the parts that allopathic medicines will not.

Yeah, many forms of "alternative" medicine(homeopathy, christian science) do the same shit. I have yet to see people protesting those homeopathy wackos. That is not to say I think they should stop protesting Scientology, I'd just say that particular evil is pretty common.
http://whatstheharm.net/index.html

It's a surprising amount of peple.
They get under my skin becasue they try to spread these lies as truths to children and ignorant, and they have no argument. SO they say 'it's a conspiracy' as if that's some sort of good argument.

And with all self deluding lies, there is a price for everyone.

http://whatstheharm.net/
Granted, the moon hoax isn't very harmful, yet. Wait until the start trying to force schools to teach their 'alternate "Theory"'

"in some studies the placebo is actually more effective than the drug being tested, "

Yes, but that's do to a poor drug. TO be considered medical effective it must perform better the placebo.

Placebo are not 'regularly' prescribe'. There has been a report of increased use, but it's not precribed 'regularly'.

"...but whats wrong with that? i"
Because you aren't actually treating anything.

"if you have a neuralgia or pain or dysfunction and somebody gives you a pill and the condition improves"
The condition DOES NOT improve. You just mask symptoms. You can not heal an injury with the placebo.

"what does it matter what the pill is made of?
Becasue some homeopathic drugs marketing under 'placebo' effect have been know to have actually things in them, like Zinc, or Speed, or a dengerous level of vitamins.

"placebos should be preferred as they don't have side effects."
except they can make people ignore the actually problem, and then die.

Not about placebos specifically, but along the same vain as your post:

http://whatstheharm.net/

This ever growing category of unregulated drugs are becoming a real problem. Not just is there the problem that sometimes (like in this case) the fact that it's unregulated makes it possible to sneak actually harmful ingredients in there, but to Joe Average these "cures" look just like real medicine (at least those at my local pharmacy do) and only us in the know can tell that they aren't. That's all well and good for headaches that usually cure themselves anyway but if people really need a working drug and they aren't getting it, for example because they think that they are taking one, that can have grave medical consequences. Not to mention what can happen if people, encouraged for example by the fact that these things are sold in the pharmacy like any other drug, really believe that it works and then are blinded to the signs that it doesn't.
http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html
P.S. There is a homeopathic drug that actually works. The "active ingredient" is salt.

You don't even need such drastic examples to show the harm of superstitious thinking. Check out www.whatstheharm.net for a list of actual harm and damage that comes from magical thinking.

Alternative treatments like 'toxins cause all illnesses, including the genetic ones, and especially cancer'?. Yeah, let's all jump on that bandwagon.

I went to my doctor today and he wrote me a prescription. I went and paid all of $14 for the medicine (that's the uninsured price). Mind you I live in Canada, so the doctor's visit was free. But honestly, when I watch those drug commercials you have in the States for sinus medication with side effects that include sinus infection and nose bleeds, and on top of that it costs you lots of money to see a doctor in the first place I can honestly understand *why* alt-meds seem so appealing. The sad fact of the matter is the proprietors of alt-meds are worse swindlers than the pharmaceutical companies people like to rail against.

http://whatstheharm.net/

These 'crooks' are called naturopaths. They get away with their quackery because it's 'all natural'. Whatever that means.

For more about this nonsense I highly recommend the Science Based Medicine Blog

To get started learning about skepticism read blogs and listen to podcasts such as these:

http://www.skeptic.com/index.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
http://whatstheharm.net/index.html
http://www.expelledexposed.com/

Then when you find a science topic you are interested in, read a lot of books about it so that you can be comfortable enough with the topic to think critically about new discoveries and claims and to explain it to others.

The blogs I listed tend to recommend more good books than I can keep up with.

Be warned though. Skepticism and science are addictive and fun and tend to piss off the intellectually lazy.

It's harmless stuff

Not according to this guy: http://whatstheharm.net/index.html

His total: Thanks to poor critical thinking skills: 2451 people dead, 117,941 injured, and $138,693,382 lost. And that's just for the stuff he keeps track of.

What's the harm?.