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I hope transgaming goes bust.
I have little sympathy for mandrake - As they can profit in the good times they shouldn't beg in the bad (but thanks for the software contributions). The fsf and debian are much more deserving causes. Xiph does good stuff too.

Are you all so busy sweating over the piracy of copyrighted works that you walked right into a patent minefield without realizing it?

Downloading you music now, thanks for making it available.

Just a side note: how about using Ogg Vorbis instead of mp3? It has superior sound quality and it's royalty/patent free. I think every decent software player supports it these days, so compatibility shouldn't be an issue.

// fixxxer

If it's going to be good for Linux users?
Yes

The question is: "Will it be good for the open-source movement and the technologies it develops?"

If you think a little about it, this could be a way for MS to kill a player (Xiph.org) that is doing it's way in the multimedia business.

In the open-source (and at the same time with Linux... cause it's where it gets the most used), we've got Ogg Vorbis, the best patent-free lossy audio format. To get the Unix market, MS has to kill it first. We can see that they've found a good way to do it. They're just forcing the market to adopt their codec as a standart so that unix users will be forced to used it too.

Then, there are theses projects, named Theora and XviD, which could become other good formats for the open-source community, but this time in the domain of video.
We can apply the same theory to this one... MS is just trying to kill them too, to gain the market that will be, again, forced to do a jump its propriatery technology...

So yes, it'll be good for *NIX users, but could kill the projects the open-source community is trying to create...

Sounds great, thanks!

Also, if you believe the name of OGG-S could cause any consumer confusion please feel free to email me at rsage@sidespace.com and I will work on changing our site accordingly. Since OGG-S has been mentioned on the Vorbis mailing lists in the past, I had assumed this name would not cause any confusion.

The fact that someone would package Ogg Vorbis with DRM was inevitable (and welcome, as is any derivative work based on our stuff); The only issue I have with this implementation (as I'm unaware of the technical aspects of it as yet) is that it uses the name 'Ogg.'

That being said, I would very much appreciate it if the name of this product were changed. I'd rather avoid confusion sooner rather than later. After all, 'Ogg Vorbis' was only a project codename, and was never expected to take off. :)

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

I assure you that SideSpace is in no way, shape or form affiliated with the Xiph.Org Foundation, who make Ogg Vorbis and other royalty-free multimedia codecs.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

Why not give the ten percent to the Xiph.Org Foundation? After all, we make the codec that makes your product remotely valuable.

While you're at it, why don't you choose a name for your DRM scheme that isn't so closely identifiable with one of our trademarks?

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

It's right there on the page MGM FAQ.

I'm sorry, but the press release linked to in the article only mentioned a sync manager, not anything else. The press release didn't say anything about being able to mount the player as a drive or anything else you just mentioned. Traditionally in the Win/Mac MP3 portable world having a "sync manager" typically means you can't mount the player drive or read/write it directly. Your above comment should have been part of the press release in order to avoid this type of confusion.

Why do you feel that I would be more qualified to answer this than, say, someone who works for the company that makes the Rio Volt? We're software developers; We don't know what's going on at companies all over the place.

I don't know if Rio's going to upgrade the firmware, 'cause I don't work for SonicBLUE. Also; I work for Xiph, so I can't afford the call to Miss Cleo.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

And you should really look at Ogg Vorbis a little more...the file size will be the same with Ogg Vorbis as an MP3 with the same bit rate, but the Ogg Vorbis file will be higher quality.

This means you can have smaller files that sound just as good...to hear how good Ogg Vorbis files can be, try encoding a file with -q0 and you'll see what I mean (a 3-4 minute file should be ~1-1.5M)...

It uses advanced acoustic modeling to do quality based encoding...something not built into MP3 (Lame tries to approximate this)...

If you want to talk raw bit rate, Vorbis can do higher bit rates as well (640max I think...current encoders can only do a max of 320 but the format allows for it), but the real reason to use Vorbis is better sounding, smaller sized files...I mean, isn't that the ultimate goal of lossy compression???

As a matter of fact, Ogg Media (Generally VP3...sometimes XviD + Vorbis) is becoming the preferred format for some Anime Fan-Subbers...for a good look at how to do OGM, look here and here...

What's even better about Ogg Vorbis is the format allows for tuning of algorithms even now (after the format is frozen)...

You should also check out the Dare To Compare page on Xiph's own site...

Congratulations, you win the box of Q-Tips.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

"It will never come out."

"It will never be as good as mp3."

"It will never be better than mp3."

"No one will use it but Linux folks."

"Now that you've lost funding, you'll never survive."

"You'll be shut down by Thomson/Fraunhofer."

"No hardware company will ever be interested in it."

Xiph.org Foundation - Proving assholes wrong since 1993.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Yes, this is all true. We've got special plans to have Ogg Vorbis files Shock-Enabled[tm]; If you're listening to an Ogg Vorbis file and you think about copying it for a friend, a special patented algorithm will combine the electrical synapses in your brain and route the power directly to your spinal column, killing you instantly.

It's certainly a cost-savings over the all-weather troops that we've been using for the past few years.

Remember to keep your tinfoil hat on tight. :)

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Well, gosh. Here I thought that an XML-aware database that would allow you to sync your XMMS playlists and things in addition to using it as a removable drive would be a useful feature. Seems people agree with me on this one.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

The Neuros has a port for an RF booster/antenna. Curious, no? :)

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

There is no such thing as 'CD-quality' when dealing with a lossy encoder like mp3 or Ogg Vorbis. True CD quality can only be attained with a lossless encoder, like FLAC or Shorten.

If you think Ogg Vorbis sounds better than mp3 at comparable bitrate or lower, then it's safe to say that you consider Ogg Vorbis representative of "better audio," or better reproduction of sound. If you do find this to be true, then you're in good company; Large amounts of double-blind testing agrees with you.

Bitrate is never irrelevant. Bitrate multiplied by time equals size, and anyone who has ever filled a hard drive could probably tell you about how some things can look very large indeed from far away, but hit their limit of usefulness in a curiously small amount of time.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

No, I wasn't. I was promoted to the position of Editor-in-Chief of Linux.com, then I resigned from there a few months later citing editorial differences. Then I started a web publishing project called Binary Freedom which lives on at System Toolbox, which I still occasionally write for.

I started a little comic/animation studio on the side, and went back to work as a UNIX Admin (which is what I was doing before I got involved in the whole web-journalism biz) at Digital Island/Exodus for about a year. I got cut in a massive acquisition layoff, chilled out for about a month and then started at Xiph at the request of the team here.

Now I run Xiph full-time, and release free music on the 'net in my spare time.

Wow, that was more than you really needed to know. But knowing is half the battle, etc.

Emmett

That's probably because it's set in Victorian England.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

That's probably because it's set in Victorian England.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

Use FLAC and make Perfect CD Quality copies of your CDs and make them available. File sizes are larger (get you to 100GB) and quality is perfect, so that anyone, can dload a some_album.flac, convert it to wav and recreate the CD. no more comprimise in audio quality.

You can wrap FLAC in an OGG stream, but why would you want to?

FLAC already has a very good wrapper. OGG is very small, and adds as little as possible to the size of the raw data making up the media stream, but some decisions were made that make OGG useless to me as a wrapper.

As an example, how do you seek in a file?

In FLAC's native format, you read the Metadata Block Seektable which gives you a mapping between points in time, and points in the file.
In QuickTime, you read the Sample Table Atom which does basically the same thing.

In OGG? It appears ( from vorbisfile.c) that you have to seek through the whole stream, reading the headers of every page to find the locations of all of the absolute granule position markers and regenerate the same information that other formats spend a few hundred bytes to store in a table.

Needing to read the whole file before being able to seek might not seem like much, but when you are dealing with files of moderate size (6 hours or so) stored on a media where the transfer rate between the file and the player is close to the bitrate of the audio, it becomes extremely annoying.

You can wrap FLAC in an OGG stream, but why would you want to?

FLAC already has a very good wrapper. OGG is very small, and adds as little as possible to the size of the raw data making up the media stream, but some decisions were made that make OGG useless to me as a wrapper.

As an example, how do you seek in a file?

In FLAC's native format, you read the Metadata Block Seektable which gives you a mapping between points in time, and points in the file.
In QuickTime, you read the Sample Table Atom which does basically the same thing.

In OGG? It appears ( from vorbisfile.c) that you have to seek through the whole stream, reading the headers of every page to find the locations of all of the absolute granule position markers and regenerate the same information that other formats spend a few hundred bytes to store in a table.

Needing to read the whole file before being able to seek might not seem like much, but when you are dealing with files of moderate size (6 hours or so) stored on a media where the transfer rate between the file and the player is close to the bitrate of the audio, it becomes extremely annoying.

Here's a little meat for you:

2. RESTRICTIONS. Notwithstanding any provisions in this agreement to the contrary, Licensee may not (a) make, use or load into temporary memory any unapproved copies of the Licensed Materials without the appropriate license(s) for use on additional CPUs; (b) distribute the Licensed Materials; (c) modify, transmit, rent, lease or sublicense the Licensed Materials; (d) reverse-engineer, decompile or disassemble the Licensed Materials, except to the extent required to be permitted by applicable law; (e) disclose any source core or performance characteristics of the Licensed Materials to any person or entity; (f) use the Licensed Materials in a service bureau or "application service provider" environment or for the benefit of third parties; or (g) at any time do or permit to be done anything which shall adversely affect SoftSound's right, title or interest in the Licensed Materials. If the Licensed Materials are used within a country of the European Community, nothing in this Agreement shall be construed as restricting any rights available under the EC Council Directive 14 May 1991 on the legal protection of computer programs.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

Here's a little meat for you:

2. RESTRICTIONS. Notwithstanding any provisions in this agreement to the contrary, Licensee may not (a) make, use or load into temporary memory any unapproved copies of the Licensed Materials without the appropriate license(s) for use on additional CPUs; (b) distribute the Licensed Materials; (c) modify, transmit, rent, lease or sublicense the Licensed Materials; (d) reverse-engineer, decompile or disassemble the Licensed Materials, except to the extent required to be permitted by applicable law; (e) disclose any source core or performance characteristics of the Licensed Materials to any person or entity; (f) use the Licensed Materials in a service bureau or "application service provider" environment or for the benefit of third parties; or (g) at any time do or permit to be done anything which shall adversely affect SoftSound's right, title or interest in the Licensed Materials. If the Licensed Materials are used within a country of the European Community, nothing in this Agreement shall be construed as restricting any rights available under the EC Council Directive 14 May 1991 on the legal protection of computer programs.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

Gosh, wouldn't it completely suck ass to be stuck with some idiot format that can't decide which one it wants to be, so it applies the same name to all of them, even though that they represent entirely different standards?

Wouldn't it suck even harder if you had to pay licensing fees to put that video that you shot using the camera you bought onto the webspace that you've paid for, and then be lost as to which standard they meant when they said 'MPEG-4?'

This is, of course, just the beginning. Wait until you have to pay them a licensing fee to convert one MPEG-4 format to another MPEG-4 format. Wait and see. Don't forget the most fun part... Licensing terms for MPEG-4 haven't even been set yet. It should be fun when Samsung sends you another bill.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

Gosh, wouldn't it completely suck ass to be stuck with some idiot format that can't decide which one it wants to be, so it applies the same name to all of them, even though that they represent entirely different standards?

Wouldn't it suck even harder if you had to pay licensing fees to put that video that you shot using the camera you bought onto the webspace that you've paid for, and then be lost as to which standard they meant when they said 'MPEG-4?'

This is, of course, just the beginning. Wait until you have to pay them a licensing fee to convert one MPEG-4 format to another MPEG-4 format. Wait and see. Don't forget the most fun part... Licensing terms for MPEG-4 haven't even been set yet. It should be fun when Samsung sends you another bill.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.Org Foundation

The women working the show are your average marketing department types.

Certainly not the type to read Slashdot... Oops.
Sorry about my lack of spandex at Xiph's booth, but I prefer my black jeans and tee.
There were some cute women out there, and most of the ones I took the time to talk to actually had something intelligent to say. Perhaps you should have hung out at the icculus booth and watched the chicks playing pyDDR. If you don't find bouncing female breasts attractive (and many of the girls I saw even had cute faces to match), then it's quite possible there is no hope for you.

I am what I am / I am my own special creation
So, come take a look / give me the hook or the ovation
It's my world / that I want to have a little pride in
My world / and it's not a place I have to hide in
Life's not worth a damn until you can say / I am what I am

'La Cage' was remade into a film called 'The Birdcage' that starred Robin Williams and Nathan Lane. It's about a couple of gay drag queens, a drag club in St. Tropez, and an uber-conservative (played by Gene Hackman). General hilarity ensues.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. By the way, no, I'm not gay. I just have too much damned useless trivia in my head.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

I am what I am / I am my own special creation
So, come take a look / give me the hook or the ovation
It's my world / that I want to have a little pride in
My world / and it's not a place I have to hide in
Life's not worth a damn until you can say / I am what I am

'La Cage' was remade into a film called 'The Birdcage' that starred Robin Williams and Nathan Lane. It's about a couple of gay drag queens, a drag club in St. Tropez, and an uber-conservative (played by Gene Hackman). General hilarity ensues.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. By the way, no, I'm not gay. I just have too much damned useless trivia in my head.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Because the GPL doesn't directly address patents by the first party (only patent restrictions placed upon licensees), I fear that a good lawyer could argue that license to use, modify and distribute a copyrighted document (the source code) doesn't take away from the patent rights of the first party.

rms has indicated that an FSF lawyer has opined that the GPL in its current form forces an implicit licensing of the patent, but there is no language in the GPL that makes this explicit. (Don't quote me the preamble; that's non-normative).

That's why some folks have proposed adding this language to the GPL.

From a little searching it turns out that Xiph is the non-profit corperation that perhaps could seek funds from this settlement. Anyone know if they are on it?

The xiph download directory

and wrestle with the philosophical nature of your assertion :)

(Note: This stuff is in a preview state only, it's very rough and ready, and certainly not for the end user... if you're feeling brave, on the other hand, and like compiling heaps of source..)

Of course, what is really needed is a third choice, a totally Free Software media codec solution that's competitive with both Windows Media and MPEG 4

That isn't to say that I am the biggest Ogg users, but then again, I am not the biggest MP3 user either. However, I will not buy DRM enabled equipment, more out of principle than anything. I use my CD-R to burn art that I have created and Open Source software for the most part. On the same token, I will tend to shy away from DRM enabled software and formats.

As far as the ownership idea goes. I fully believe in property rights. But I also believe in the benefits of good will. Most everything that I write semi-professionally is released under an "open content" type boilerplate license (for lack of a better term). The Baen Free Library's experiences seem to back up the economic power of this type of good will as well.

Personally, I would be happy with just support from Apple for the Vorbis audio codec in a Quicktime wrapper.

It would be difficult for me to find a way to care less than I do about the OGG wrapper format, but Vorbis seems to actually be a rather good audio codec. In OGG, it is decent, but in QuickTime, it could be outstanding!

As one example, the ability for a Vorbis stream to be stripped to a lower bitrate on the fly seems to be a perfect match with the QuickTIme Packetizer API to create a Packetizer/Reassembler combo which can compensate for lost packets by replacing them with packets at a lower bit rate, keeping the total stream bandwidth below the specified limit!

Plus, you wouldn't have to decode all of the headers in the stream (to read the granule positions, to determine at what time each frame starts) before being able to seek around in it, as in Quicktime the Sample Table Atom holds everything you need in one place.

I'm sure the GPL will then force them to disclose any information about whatever wrapping they do...

Xiph.org's Vorbis software libraries (libvorbis and vorbisfile) are distributed under a BSD-like license; these libraries may be used by any application, open or proprietary, linked or incorporated in whole, so long as acknowldgement is made to Xiph.org Foundation when using our codec source in whole or in derived works. See the file 'COPYING' in the source for all the details.

Was true until a little while ago. http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html. The new "Tremor" codec is integer-only. I think it may require a bit more CPU speed than mp3, though.

There's a "Tremor" integer-only codec listed on the CODEC project page.

they're not really two projects. the quicktime component folks had a message up on the front page for months that said that oggs didn't play under QT6. from what i can tell, this guy came by, familiarized himself with QuickTime over a weekend, and fixed the component, which is now here.

ps. if you have an ipod and would like to join a bunch of other people in trying to convince apple to support oggs in ipod hardware (probably in vain), there's a petition. it is theoretically possible via tremor, for you FP naysayers.

That's only in the context of having a non-profit company make games. You couldn't sell it as 'something that'll be really cool as long as you and everyone else signs on.' Initial development costs to produce a modern game that would attract the average buyers are unbelievably prohibitive.

I'm with you on Yankee Trader. Now I want to play some TradeWars 2002! :)

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

That's only in the context of having a non-profit company make games. You couldn't sell it as 'something that'll be really cool as long as you and everyone else signs on.' Initial development costs to produce a modern game that would attract the average buyers are unbelievably prohibitive.

I'm with you on Yankee Trader. Now I want to play some TradeWars 2002! :)

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

The problem is that the game market is larger than Hollywood, and nearly just as insane. The reason you see so many shooting, driving and fighting games at arcades today is because those genres have proven themselves as profitable. The stakes are simply too high to leave anything else to chance.

While the idea of a non-profit game company is interesting, the problem is that you need to raise an insane amount of capital to get one game on the shelves, raise an insane amount of capital again to promote it.

It may be possible to do this if you start with very small games, but even then you need to have a smash-hit tiny game to fund the next one. Still, I suspect it will all break down when you need to invest funds in order to promote and market the product.

Sony must be making a huge profit from EverQuest. Imagine if the profit were instead entirely turned around into actually improving the game (and releasing better games.)

I don't know how much it cost them to make the game, and I don't know how much they're making, so I couldn't tell you that they must be making money hand-over-fist. They do have a captive audience, and people like 'Mr. Victim' who posted the original story are still playing the game.

On the other hand, would you buy a game that got better based on how many people were playing it? Probably not. Everyone wants to buy a great game right away, not buy it and hope everyone plays so the game gets better. I really like the idea, but I don't think the universe is ready for this much maturity. It definitely worked back when people paid to play MUDs, but I think in the current state of the 'interactive entertainment' industry, it would be about as useful as a condom machine in the Vatican.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

The problem is that the game market is larger than Hollywood, and nearly just as insane. The reason you see so many shooting, driving and fighting games at arcades today is because those genres have proven themselves as profitable. The stakes are simply too high to leave anything else to chance.

While the idea of a non-profit game company is interesting, the problem is that you need to raise an insane amount of capital to get one game on the shelves, raise an insane amount of capital again to promote it.

It may be possible to do this if you start with very small games, but even then you need to have a smash-hit tiny game to fund the next one. Still, I suspect it will all break down when you need to invest funds in order to promote and market the product.

Sony must be making a huge profit from EverQuest. Imagine if the profit were instead entirely turned around into actually improving the game (and releasing better games.)

I don't know how much it cost them to make the game, and I don't know how much they're making, so I couldn't tell you that they must be making money hand-over-fist. They do have a captive audience, and people like 'Mr. Victim' who posted the original story are still playing the game.

On the other hand, would you buy a game that got better based on how many people were playing it? Probably not. Everyone wants to buy a great game right away, not buy it and hope everyone plays so the game gets better. I really like the idea, but I don't think the universe is ready for this much maturity. It definitely worked back when people paid to play MUDs, but I think in the current state of the 'interactive entertainment' industry, it would be about as useful as a condom machine in the Vatican.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Every commercial game produced is released in order to make money. The reality of this seems to have escaped the author of this review.

As a consumer, you have a number of choices. You can choose to buy the game and play it, or you can choose to buy the game and not play it. You can also choose not to buy the game, as well.

The problem that the author is trying to address has nothing to do with Everquest; It has everything to do with the perception of value. He wants you to know what you're getting into, and he obviously feels that EverQuest is not worth the money.

Some games are addictive; The only difference is that you're not spending $x every month to play Tetris. Saying that 'you can't win' doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There are a lot of games you can't win; I own several of them.

Spy Hunter (the arcade game) was a great game. It cost twenty-five cents, and there's no way to win. It goes on forever. If you want to play Spy Hunter as long as you want to play EverQuest, it'll cost a hell of a lot more, unless you have crazy-mad Spy Hunter skills.

EverQuest offers a flat monthly rate. Some people pay something like $10 an hour for this, because they only play a couple hours a month. Some people are logged in sixteen hours a day. From an entertainment point of view, the people who are 'addicted to the game' are actually getting more value for their money. Read that again. Addicted to EverQuest: Hopeless gamer, or thifty shopper?

Maybe they don't update their site as often as they should. Are site updates part of the cost, or can anyone access them? If you're not paying for it, it does not apply to the 'value for money' problem. Poor updates, inefficient game masters... If you don't want to deal with this, don't buy the game, I suppose. On the other hand, I wouldn't rush out and buy a game that claims 'Kick-Ass Support!' and 'EXTREME GAME-MASTERING.' Game companies in the future will likely feel the same way, and just keep putting hot chicks on the boxes in the store.

All in all, I do appreciate the honesty of the rant, and I do believe that many people may not understand the value proposition of EverQuest before they buy the game and start playing. On the other hand, caveat emptor, baby!

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Every commercial game produced is released in order to make money. The reality of this seems to have escaped the author of this review.

As a consumer, you have a number of choices. You can choose to buy the game and play it, or you can choose to buy the game and not play it. You can also choose not to buy the game, as well.

The problem that the author is trying to address has nothing to do with Everquest; It has everything to do with the perception of value. He wants you to know what you're getting into, and he obviously feels that EverQuest is not worth the money.

Some games are addictive; The only difference is that you're not spending $x every month to play Tetris. Saying that 'you can't win' doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There are a lot of games you can't win; I own several of them.

Spy Hunter (the arcade game) was a great game. It cost twenty-five cents, and there's no way to win. It goes on forever. If you want to play Spy Hunter as long as you want to play EverQuest, it'll cost a hell of a lot more, unless you have crazy-mad Spy Hunter skills.

EverQuest offers a flat monthly rate. Some people pay something like $10 an hour for this, because they only play a couple hours a month. Some people are logged in sixteen hours a day. From an entertainment point of view, the people who are 'addicted to the game' are actually getting more value for their money. Read that again. Addicted to EverQuest: Hopeless gamer, or thifty shopper?

Maybe they don't update their site as often as they should. Are site updates part of the cost, or can anyone access them? If you're not paying for it, it does not apply to the 'value for money' problem. Poor updates, inefficient game masters... If you don't want to deal with this, don't buy the game, I suppose. On the other hand, I wouldn't rush out and buy a game that claims 'Kick-Ass Support!' and 'EXTREME GAME-MASTERING.' Game companies in the future will likely feel the same way, and just keep putting hot chicks on the boxes in the store.

All in all, I do appreciate the honesty of the rant, and I do believe that many people may not understand the value proposition of EverQuest before they buy the game and start playing. On the other hand, caveat emptor, baby!

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Well, no. Since we're talking about apartments, it's all about who owns that building. Sure, you can mount a dish on the outside of your window. You'll be able to see it from the street, which is where you'll be sleeping when your landlord kicks you out.

The United States has all sorts of goofy local statutes regarding things like this. Here in Philadelphia, there are certain things you cannot put on certain buildings even if you own them, because they're part of a 'historical area' or something like that. In many housing developments, you need to have changes to your house that you own including (but not limited to) building a deck, painting the front a different color, etc checked by a local or county zoning commission.

Some places are a little less nuts, but they're becoming more and more rare. Two people are neighbors, three people are a zoning commission.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Well, no. Since we're talking about apartments, it's all about who owns that building. Sure, you can mount a dish on the outside of your window. You'll be able to see it from the street, which is where you'll be sleeping when your landlord kicks you out.

The United States has all sorts of goofy local statutes regarding things like this. Here in Philadelphia, there are certain things you cannot put on certain buildings even if you own them, because they're part of a 'historical area' or something like that. In many housing developments, you need to have changes to your house that you own including (but not limited to) building a deck, painting the front a different color, etc checked by a local or county zoning commission.

Some places are a little less nuts, but they're becoming more and more rare. Two people are neighbors, three people are a zoning commission.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Apple does not support the Ogg Vorbis format in iTunes. There is a QuickTime component available that will enable you to play Vorbis files in iTunes, but due to it being a QuickTime hack (as opposed to format support within the application itself), certain things do not work as expected, and OS X will not properly associate Ogg Vorbis files as 'iTunes-compatible.'

So, there's the straight dope. I'm sorry if people are confused and irritated about this; We didn't submit this story.

If you do need help playing Vorbis files, please drop in on #vorbis on irc.xiph.org; Our crack team of off-topic ranters and audio illuminati are standing by 24/7, even during this busy holiday season. :)

As a side note, we're hacking like crazy this week! Want to help out? Stop by the IRC server and join #xiphtech for a quick run-down. Thanks!

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Apple does not support the Ogg Vorbis format in iTunes. There is a QuickTime component available that will enable you to play Vorbis files in iTunes, but due to it being a QuickTime hack (as opposed to format support within the application itself), certain things do not work as expected, and OS X will not properly associate Ogg Vorbis files as 'iTunes-compatible.'

So, there's the straight dope. I'm sorry if people are confused and irritated about this; We didn't submit this story.

If you do need help playing Vorbis files, please drop in on #vorbis on irc.xiph.org; Our crack team of off-topic ranters and audio illuminati are standing by 24/7, even during this busy holiday season. :)

As a side note, we're hacking like crazy this week! Want to help out? Stop by the IRC server and join #xiphtech for a quick run-down. Thanks!

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Take the OGG listening challenge and come back later with an opinion.