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EverQuest: What You Really Get From an Online Game
Everquest is a game centered on rewarding you for how much time you put into it. This is the core design philosophy behind the game, since they charge you by the month and make more money the longer you stick around. What they don't tell you is that taking your money is about all they're interested in. They care little for player complaints, and less about player suggestions and requests. They're in this to milk you for all you're worth, and that's the first thing you have to know.
The second thing you have to know is that the game stops being fun. By that time though, you're so "addicted" to the game, you don't realize it. The game becomes a source of frustration and anger instead of a source of entertainment and fun. It becomes a chore. It becomes a job. You plod away at the keyboard, obsessed and consumed with getting that new item, or finishing that last quest, and while so consumed you begin to hate the game. Vehemently. It's a game that goes on forever, and one that you can never win.
After playing the game for a while, you'll start conversing with other players, and you'll see the one thing all players have in common is that they all hate Sony - the designers of Everquest. (It should be noted that Verant, the original development company, has been absorbed into Sony Online Entertainment -- so will be referred to as Sony for simplicity) This is baffling at first glance, because they send Sony $12.95 every month for a form of supposedly voluntary entertainment, which they enjoy, and yet they despise them! Look a little deeper though, and you'll see that most people who dislike Sony are the ones who no longer have fun playing Everquest. They aren't getting what they want out of the game anymore, and they look to Sony, being the source of all changes and improvements/breakdowns in the game, as the cause. Right or wrong, this is the state of affairs; the consumers hate the company providing them with a service that they think they enjoy.
Let's go back to the part about Sony not caring about their customers. Recently, they changed their GM (Game Master) Customer Service system such that, instead of one GM being assigned to each game server permanently to handle problems, there would instead be a smaller pool of GMs roaming all the servers infrequently. When enough player problems on a server requiring GM help cropped up (around 30), a GM would be sent to handle the petitions (problems) one at a time until finished, and move on to the next server. This had the effect of increasing wait times on getting petitions answered from a few hours to many hours, or even several days by many accounts. This was introduced supposedly as a cost-cutting measure, which would improve efficiency. They'd have to hire less GMs if they pooled them up into a roving band, instead of assigning one for each server. In actuality, while this may have made things more efficient on Sony's side, the players were left waiting for days until that magic number was reached where a GM would log on to the server to help them out.
On Sony's website, there is a link to a feature called Developer's Corner. Over the two years this has been up and running, the person in charge of Customer Relations at Sony, Alan "Absor" VanCouvering, has turned it from a section dedicated to answering player questions, into a simple Press Release box with little useful information. Where there would be several updates per day, now there are perhaps one or two per week. Answers to player questions are few, and replies to player emails are fewer. Since most answers to customer questions are now handled on specific, "class" (ranger, paladin, monk, etc) message boards by the developers themselves (once in a blue moon of course), one is left wondering what Absor is paid to do. Twiddle his thumbs perhaps? The world may never know.
This leads up to a lack of will at Sony to address their customers with any sort of respect. Often, sudden "game-changing" features will be added or removed in a patch, with little or no explanation given to the players, and no recourse for the players themselves other than to submit comments to the black hole at the Dev Corner. Other changes can render a class' or items' abilities weaker, slower, or even drastically altered or removed from the game. Again, the players have no say in the matter officially, and rarely get these changes reversed through massive online signature petitions. It is quite common now for these sorts of changes to come completely unannounced and unexplained, leaving the players themselves to bug test, figure out what happened, what is wrong, and leaving them again to wander off to the Dev Board asking what the purpose of the change was. Far too often in this process, the sheer discoordination and incompetence at Sony is revealed, as the changes happened accidentally or were not intended to occur in the manner they did. The bottom line being, you can go to bed one night with a great character and items, and wake up in the morning to find all that has changed; leaving you holding your member and your opinions mattering less than a pig's squeals in a slaughterhouse.
The final aspect of the will at Sony to disassociate from the customers is how they handle disputes between players. In the Everquest game world, you can find yourself in competition with other players for the ability to play the game. Yes, in EQ, you compete with other players for the right to kill the monsters. It's massive artificial scarcity. If you aren't online early enough, or if you don't move fast enough, you lose. MOBs (as monsters are known) spawn at predictable intervals; and the design of the game itself, added onto the times that Sony resets its servers for patches, means that if you don't live in Europe or on the east coast, you and your guild (an organization of players) are provided with less game content than any other time zone or area. You get to have "fun" as another guild of players in another part of the world kills a mob required to advance in the game while you're in bed, or at work, and nothing can be done about it. Often, players will do this purposefully to keep you from killing other, stronger mobs, so they can keep that part of the game to themselves. The GMs will not help you, the Guides (volunteer player GMs) will tell you they can't do anything (and that's true, they are impotent for the most part), and you and the 60 people in your guild are left holding your collective members for six months while you wait for said east-coast unemployed or European guild to take pity on you and let you have the mob. Fat chance.
Sony of course doesn't mind these situations in the slightest; because you see, this is their high-end game. Where in the lower levels you'll spend your time getting great items by fighting mobs that take seconds to prepare for and a minute to kill, at the high end you are required to spend multiple hours (sometimes up to twelve hours) with a "raid force" of 60 or more people just killing useless, annoying mobs (which drop little or no loot) put there as obstacles. Finally, when you reach the boss mob, the fight may last perhaps 30 minutes or more. This 30 minutes of combat is certainly not fun, as all you do is point your character at a mob and press a single button to auto-attack. Many melee-classes go watch TV for the duration of the fight. Your clerics (usually eight or more) cast the same healing spell in a long healing chain to keep your warrior alive, and your wizards all cast the same damaging spells for the 30 minutes of the fight. This is to kill a single mob (in this case, named Aten Ha Ra), which drops four items for your guild.
These situations are 'lovingly' referred to by the players as timesinks; gameplay traps intended to waste your time and keep you playing longer. There are hundreds of them; others incredibly longer than simply getting to a mob. Several quests required to advance in the game require you to spend 100+ hours sitting in single locations, killing hundreds of mobs in 12-hour stretches for a "rare drop", such as ore in the ssraeshza mines, which you use to create "bane" weapons; or the shissar commanders for key pieces; with which to fight the boss mob of the zone. Unlike the other parts of the game, these timesinks are required for advancement, and there is no getting around them unless you wish to stop playing. This is of course not fun at all, but as said above, by this time you'll have long stopped having fun with EQ. You'll do it anyway though, as thousands of others have, because you, like them, are addicted. The quest to kill the shissar Emperor of Ssraeshza is one of the most vicious timesinks in the entire game, but it is merely one example among dozens. To even reach this area of the game requires months of non-stop raiding with your guild; sometimes up to a year of raiding. Only then will you be powerful enough to enter.
Expansions to the game are put out about once per year. These cost around $30 to buy when released, and are required to visit new zones, gain new levels, and so forth. For anyone just entering the game now to be on equal footing with others, they will need to buy the original game and all four expansions at retail price. Of course, no expansion yet released by Sony has been complete when it hit the shelves. Often the final zone in the expansion would be left unfinished, or in such a state of bugginess that it was unplayable. Other zones will be incomplete or have bad pathing for the mobs. Items and monsters will not be "balanced" for difficulty, and players will sometimes stumble onto great equipment for their characters, only to have Sony later decide it is too powerful, and "nerf" it. When an item is nerfed, it's reduced in effectiveness or power, often to the point of absurdity, or it simply stops entering the game world. This rewards players who gun through the new expansion as fast as possible to get the upper hand over their competition on the server, and punishes anyone who cannot put 12+ hours of EQing in per day. The problems with expansions highlight another aspect of Sony which is decidedly underwhelming: their playtesting (or lack thereof). Many bugs in the new expansions are left for players to discover themselves and work around; fixes are often delayed by as much as a week while Sony tries to find a solution. In Everquest, you pay to be a bug tester, and receive no feedback or acknowledgement that any bugs you report are fixed, or even looked at, unless its fix shows up in a terse (bi-) weekly patch message. Most bugs are left unfixed due to their overwhelming numbers.
Class balancing is an on-going project of Sony to try to make sure each class (warrior, cleric, wizard, ranger, etc) has its own niche, and feels useful and meaningful in the game world. They seem oblivious to the fact that items are just as much a part of the game as classes though, and it seems they let their zone (game area) developers run wild with items, creating more work for the developers. If you're keeping a tally, the Mrylokar's Dagger in NToV was one of them. The Mistwalker from Lady Vox was another. These weapons were both nerfed because they were too powerful, and made the classes who could use them much too strong versus the mobs of the time. There is no feedback to the players on what the "visions" for the classes are supposed to be (beyond the vague three-line descriptions in the manual), and no way to for the players to venture a guess of what might be "too powerful" and in line to be nerfed next. Playing EQ is a lot like playing in a casino; you can see your winnings vanish in the blink of an eye out of sheer bad luck. It is not a game where you can ever feel secure.
All this pales in comparison to player harassment, of course. From sexual-orientation insults to other players spamming your chat bar, EQ has it all. There are other forms of harassment too: Often when in competition with other guilds (as you will find yourself quite often if you play long enough), you will see them employ tactics such as "training" mobs onto you to keep you away from the contested mob encounter or zone. A "train" is typically a large number of powerful mobs (10-20), which the other guild will gather up from the zone and dump onto your raid in order to kill you. The GMs will again do nothing about this, nor will the Guides, unless they are there to witness it. Being that there are typically only a half-dozen GM/Guides on a server of 2500+ players at any given time, and that trains are completely unpredictable and random, there is of course almost no way for them to witness these events. While server logs exist that can prove this malicious player harassment occurred, they will usually refuse to even take a look, because it constitutes work, and simply dismiss the problem outright. Your guild is then left holding their collective members once again. Do you see the pattern forming here?
Everquest is a game full of people who want to "win" and "be the best" at any cost. This includes griefing you and your guild, making your gameplay miserable. Why not simply quit then, you ask? If the game isn't fun and sucks this badly, why would anyone play it? Well, because they are addicted. They are addicted to the mobs, to the loot, and to the social atmosphere with other people in their guilds. They have invested so much time in these characters (often hundreds of days of play time, sometimes more time than they spend at their jobs), that they can't will themselves to give it up. They play on instead, hoping things will get better, and nursing a great and deep hatred for Sony and the game itself. If you play long enough, you will see this as the universal truth. People who quit are viewed as giving up on their guilds; they are ridiculed, denounced, and hated. There is massive peer pressure to keep playing. Often people you thought were your friends in the game were simply using you to advance, or improve their characters. Online relationships between people in EQ are fickle, and are only good as long as everyone's getting a good dose of the drug (loot, advancement in the game, and good social relations with their guild).
Perhaps now you've begun to see the other side of EQ: The buggier side, the darker side; the side of despair and anger, fear and frustration. The game will absorb your life if you let it, while the days and weeks melt away into oblivion. I have barely touched on the repetitive gameplay you must endure to reach the top levels of the game: killing mob after mob, hundreds upon hundreds in an endless non-challenging stream to gain experience. I have not said anything about linkdeath (losing your connection) from Sony network problems, or server crashes where you lose any experience or items recently attained (and for which you are not compensated by customer service). I have not said anything about the Legends(TM) subscriptions, where you get to pay $40/month to get the customer service that you should be receiving anyway. There are many other problems with this game that I did not go into here. Before you get into EQ, realize what you're jumping into. Look before you leap.
David Sanftenberg
aka Dolalin Bonewielder
62 Necromancer of Lanys T`Vyl
EQ isn't too good though it pioneered a genre. Make way for Star Wars galaxies!
Maybe EQ needs some kind of player-based political system to make such decisions...it could also add a whole new level to the game.
Everquest is a game full of people who want to "win" and "be the best" at any cost.
Because they can't be in real life. Yay for delusions of grandeur!
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Well what do you expect from a corporation...they dont give a shit about the people who support them...is anyone surprised by this?
DON'T PLAY IT.
Gaming addiction is not a behavior of gamers... it's a behavior of addicts. The games just happen to be there for the addict's mind to latch onto.
Blaming particular games (particularly in a manner which reeks of personal bitterness) for addictions is like blaming alcohol for alcoholism, or blaming heroin for junkies: it's a foil. The real ones to blame are the ones who are addicted.
But what do I know. I'm just looking for anonymous gay sex.
By the time they've realized the hate for the game, they're addicted. So this is not an "easy" solution.
"What they don't tell you is that taking your money is about all they're interested in. They care little for player complaints, and less about player suggestions and requests. They're in this to milk you for all you're worth, and that's the first thing you have to know."
Welcome to Reality. I hope you enjoy your stay.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm not going to try and lecture you or come up with some kind of witty retort.
Simply stated:
It's a video game. If it pisses you off, turn off the computer, go outside and take a walk.
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
Find a new game.
It's fun like fiending that next hit of crack... the wait period. what a bitch.
_-^ D3\/1|_ ^-_ in me
I have never played EverQuest, but I have been curious what all the fuss was about. Of course every time I try to find out by searching on Google, all I find is people talking about playing, but no one actually describing the point of the game or even posting a screenshot. I really want to know what the game is about.
You say the game is addictive. Great. Tell me why. Tell me what keeps drawing you back. Don't feed me your laundry list of problems with Sony's sysadmins. Don't complain to me about how Sony doesn't care about their users. Tell me about the freakin' game!
In Bleveskovolokia everquest is only allowed to be played on thursdays between the hours of seven and three.
...all have this in common. You are at the mercy of whomever develops it. MMORPGs run by large commercial outfits are particularly able to lose sight of the target, which is player satisfaction.
Still, one cannot blame Sony entirely. Players have unreasonable expectations based upon their unique point of view. They want a 'fun' game. The makers of the game are concerned about bottom line, and game balance, in that order.
I run a free mud so i have a bit of perspective on this. I used to play muds, but it's like crack. So I just code lightly for those who are still addicted and try to run a sort of 'halfway house'.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Have people died while using the product?
EQ : yep
Smoking : yep
Do people spend more money the product then they have?
EQ : Yep
Smoking : Yep
Is the product marketing to children?
EQ : yep
Smoking : yep.
---
this message brought to you by Stand:Everquest. speak up aginst Everquest.
---
It seems like Sony is actively pissing customers off left and right these days, whats up with that?
Someone pass them a cluestick please.
I sunk 2 years of my free time into the game. Had something like 150 days played time (that's 24 hours x 150) and all it got me was a poorly rendered avatar that could still die to the lowest level monsters if left alone for 5 minutes.
Ended up selling the account after I came to my senses. Got my money back on the software costs and monthly fees, but I'll be on my death bed wishing I hadn't spent all that time wasting away playing EQ.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
A simple solution to all MMORPGs.
The introduction of an age system.
An age system will benefit those that don't have a lot of time to game, but want to play the game, those that have time to be a little better than the lite gamers, but its still competitive, and you can discourage addictive play. The simple idea is the more you play, the more you age (until death).
For example:
For your 'lite' gamer that can't spend a lot of time on the game, they can start off with an 'auto-30-year old char.' This character has a good deal of skill without having to spend time getting the skill. So you can jump on, be competitive with those that spend a great deal of time building their character, and still have fun.
For your 'heavy' gamer, you start off with a '16 year old char.' This character can be better than the auto-30 year old, by playing him until he reaches that age, and building the skills yourself. You get the benefit of better skills than the lite player by spending time building your character by yourself, but its still competitive, and, therefore, fun.
For the 'addict', you have a death age. When you char hits 40, your skills begin to degrade until you eventually die (yes, you character is no longer usable. Its gone.). This is a tactic to discourage addiction.
Of course, this would never be implemented on a system that has a monthly charge, because the addicts are the ones willing to pay it, but it would be good for games that don't have a monthly charge.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Have been the sort of, if you don't like it, don't play it!
I think it's this sort of defensive vitriolic reply that defeats the point of the article. That being, if you are considering playing EQ than you should probably save your money for something else. Albeit an obvious point. I myself found the game to be unfun after about 6 months running into many of the same problems. What did I do? Quit. I mean really, you EQ fan boys should just move along from this thread, it's not intended for you as I see it.
And share your experiences so that others may gain from them. Oh wait, that is what he is doing.
XML causes global warming.
I don't pay monthly fees for games. I pay one-time fees for games and then play them all I want, online or off. You hear that, game developers?
Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
Man, that is so gay
Here's a hint: if you have to pay money regularly to a single third party for your entertainment, you need to find better entertainment. That's nothing but a co-dependency: you need the entertainment, and they need your money.
This is true for online games, cable TV, or Playboy subscriptions. Save your money and find some friends to go out with.
The most startling fact about EverQuest is how well it conforms to the Skinner Box model, making one believe that Verant specifically designed their product around principles to make it more addictive than it would be otherwise.
Here is an interesting read on that subject.
Honestly, if the company is exploiting psychological theory in order to make their game addictive on purpose, its not much different from cigarette companies using nicotine or cola companies using caffiene IMO.
Bad? Maybe... I've heard of a lot of otherwise well adjusted people playing EQ to thier own detriment. But then, ultimately it is the responsibility of the individual to take care of themselves.
Get a life. I mean, really, your whining about how HORRIBLE it is to HAVE to play this shitty game that you are ADDICTED to is ridiculous. Maybe you would be better off if you spent a little more time in reality. Actually, maybe we'd all be better off if people like you and the rest of the "addicts" just killed yourselves. In real life.
that was the exact reason I stopped playing... It stopped being fun. I just hit that point sooner than most people. But now my fiance wants to try out Asherons Call ... is that any better? Should I split the cost of an account with her?
When is Rekonstruction going to finally come out?
You plod away at the keyboard, obsessed and consumed with getting that new item, or finishing that last quest, and while so consumed you begin to hate the game. Vehemently. It's a game that goes on forever, and one that you can never win.
"He loves and hates the ring, as he loves and hates himself."
-Gandalf in the first LOTR movie, referring to Gollum.
Well, hey, I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage.
cheating has gotten harder with Punkbuster -- though I suspect there are new cheats already. I've personally never cheated playing Quake -- it's more fun to win honestly IMHO.
Online costs? Your ISP.
kill. Kill. KILL!
Anyway, is anyone at all convinced that any of this will change with the new games being developed? SWG is close to being released, and I already see some problems...
My big concern is Everquest 2. Some of these issues are big and annoying enough to piss off everyone but the people who are playing EQ right now, and why would they want to lose their Uber characters?
We've had a lot of discussion of this over at eqii.com, and I dont think we've come to a decision whatsoever. It seems to me that for some reason people look past these huge problems to play the game, and I just dont understand it.
--onyx--
" It's a game that goes on forever, and one that you can never win."
So your saying that the only winning move is not to play? How about a nice game of chess?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Imagine holding a writing implement once again, facing human beings in meaningful problem solving (god knows you won't find that at work nowadays) and drinking good beer with like minded individuals. And who can resist learning another set of arbitrary rules?
I recommend D20 Modern (www.wizards.com/D20modern) for the geeks at heart or a good game of 3rd Edition Dungeons and Dragons (www.wizards.com/dnd).
Game on.
Except for the fact that you're paying for it, I didn't see any part of the rant that couldn't have applied to a text mud a decade ago.
I guess the only difference there was that anyone who was on 'em was normally a college student or researcher (or you didn't have internet access) which changed the overall mindset of the population, and we weren't paying, so there was no reason to feel compelled to play to make the most of our subscription -- some people would take a long hiatus (ie, on academic suspension after gaming too much and having to take a semester off), or there'd be those of us who would just hang out and talk to people, maybe game a little on the side.
Oh...and the fact that the coders didn't get paid. Normally meant that most of the people who wrote the game also played it regularly, and would fix whatever it was they thought was broken.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Does that mean if you play Everquest, you're supporting terrorism?
Sour Grapes. So the game isn't everything you wanted? Poor baby! If everything you say about Sony's entire point being to keep you playing the game, and game time, then why don't they charge by the hour instead of monthly?
Help, I'm being repressed!
A good long article confirming what most of us already knew: Sony Sucks. The PS2 is about as buggy for developors, to the point where coding on it is a nightmare. he only reason it is popular is because Sony can market anything. I would never buy anything from Sony anymore. I've seen their Clie's fall apart in days after purchase, I've seen PS2s dying by the thousands, and their cust support is crap. They are worse than Microsoft, because there is no one that fights the power that they are, yet they release worse products with more bugs, yet never fix them. At least Microsoft does occationally fix their bugs.
Is it any suprise that EQ is that bad?
Maybe a class-action suit is in order here. Don't even think about taking responsibility for your own actions...take "them" to court.
No need to malign our culture. It's just an insightful indicator into the larger problems of David Sanftenberg.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Not only are you supporting terrorism but also the tabbaco industry. See double the evil! You dont want to support evil do you?
This is nothing but an example of how someone who is inclined to be addicted to something behaves. "Oh, we hate Sony, they are so mean to abuse us like this" blah blah blah. Well, believe it or not, you're the one with the power, take you money and do something else then and stop bitching about a stupid game. And don't give me that "Everquest is like crack" BS, I know you won't suffer any physical hardships by quitting. Be an adult and take responsibility for your own actions, Sony has nothing to do with the fact that you have let yourself become addicted to a stupid game...
Me reading that long whiney negative post, that would be me suffering a timesink
Throughout this tirade, the author uses the word "You" a lot, as in "you become addicted to the game." While I realize he was using the word in place of "one," I think it would have been more appropriate for him to use the word "I", since nobody I know has become "addicted" to EQ. If the author has a problem in which he is addicted to a game world, then that's his problem, but "you" and I probably won't have that problem. It's a game, I play it for entertainment. Once "you" realize that it's no longer fun, "you" should either change the way you play, or stop playing. After all, your months of work are just bits on Sony's hard drive. If you take it too seriously, you have real problems, and they are probably not related to the game.
rooooar
This is probably the saddest thing I've ever read. I'm not which part is actually the saddest though, the time the guy put into whining about a damn game or that it was posted on Slashdot as a "news" item. This is a lengthy, whiny EQ messageboard post and should have stayed there.
Oh no, this game sucks and the people playing it are dumb enough to keep paying to play it even though they hate it. Call the National Guard! For pete's sake, get a damn life, turn off the computer, find something else to do. Even if you do say you're "addicted", there's nothing physical to the addiction, you're not going to have withdrawls or anything. Sheesh.
No nudity or "nude-code", no addiction.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
but they keep billing me
:>
I cancelled back on October before the billing cycle for that month. I have been billed for three months now. They finally cancelled ONE of my accounts after I had repeatedly asked they cancel ALL accounts in my name, since the in-game cancel option doesn't seem to work.
Every month I get some incompetent monkey piece of shit emailing me back telling me "your account has been cancelled, you will not be billed again".
I know they have done this to others as well. Maybe a class-action lawsuit would be in order?
I've never played it, so I'm curious...
If you leave the game, do people come and kill your character? If that happens do you have to start over with a new character with no "power"? What fun is that?
Please fill in my blanks....
Of course it is a business, you could rewrite this same article replacing "everquest" with "/." and everyone would howl but it would be just as true. Every form of entertainment and news media is designed to get you to come back again and again. Where was the warning about this when Titanic was sucking little girls back in for their 20th viewing?
Did someone from Sony piss in your cheerios this morning or what?
$you = new YOU;
honk() if $you->love(perl)
Why did that remind me of Slashdot? Weird.
Damnit, I only need a few more points to level up to Karma: Excellent! I fucking hate this place, the mods are so lame.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
Everquest by all accounts is a crappy out-dated game.
Why not try Asheron's Call 2. It is new and has some flaws but it's actually a lot of fun. And Turbine (the developers) seem to be making a big effort to communicate with and listen to the players.
Also there are major monthly updates that add content. These are included as part of your monthly fee.
After a long day, you go home, turn on the TV. To your suprise you can't watch half of the channels because your neighbours are watching those. So no (insert favorite TV show) for you tonight. Next week, if you want to catch the same show, you have to leave work much earlier, you have to make sure to turn your TV on earlier than your neighbour. But, your neighbour has some tricks on his own. He decides to cut your cable, sabotage your dish or simply, just come home earlier than you and turn on his TV earlier. And in some cases, he will only do this to piss you off, not that he wants to watch the same TV show. To grief you. And of course, there is no law to protect you from this. Sounds ridiculous no? Well that's Everquest for you. You have to mold and organize your life around the game, or you'll never enjoy it. You have to "race" for entertainment content.
That game sure sounds like a lot of work. I think I'll smoke crack instead... not as much investment required.
...That's what you get for paying to play a MUD.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
This article reads like it was written by a 15-year-old.
BTW... Play UO!
I haven't played EQ for a year now. I gotta admit, it was damn addicting. I couldn't get enough of it. I was in a big, near uber guild. I had many buddies who played it, and met many friends. One day, I stopped playing. I'm not sure why I really did, but soon after that, I disabled my account and haven't been back since then. Nowadays, I occasionally read the EQ forums and fansites, still chuckling at the inter-class whining and bitching. Ahh, those were the days. I miss chatting with my former guild members- that feeling of camaraderie was really what EQ was about, at least to me.
First of all, the game is CALLED EVERQUEST. That's a big hint right there.
Second, the graphics on Everquest pretty much suck. How do you get started playing it in the first place when it doesn't even look good?
By the time they've realized the hate for the game, they're addicted. So this is not an "easy" solution.
Um, did I miss the part where video games can now directly stimulate your pleasure centers? Addiction is not the same as laziness.
Either you like the game, or you don't. Exert some control over how you spend your time instead of passively absorbing whatever mindless pseudo-entertainment comes your way with the least effort. Turn off Everquest. Turn off the TV while you're at it. Go outside, take a walk. Go hiking, or skiing, make a friend, get some exercise. Get a dog from the pound, and take it for a long walk every day. Do something that gives you something to remember when you get old.
include $sig;
1;
I don't know why .. but after reading this i felt much better .. like, i thought i didn't have a social life .. and now, i look at all these people... Is this turning into a decease or what? hundreds of hours of gaming .. is this sane?
I fuse with Mercer every single day...
Has anybody considered a Class Action lawsuit for poor service?
I'm certain that a couple lawsuits would make Sony note that it's more profitable to keep your customers happy than to drag them along on your whims.
And, I want to note that I know people will say "just quit" instead of a suit but there will always be somebody to fill the gap if there's a boycott etc. Only legal action ( e.g. Money ) will speak the message to Sony.
Every commercial game produced is released in order to make money. The reality of this seems to have escaped the author of this review.
As a consumer, you have a number of choices. You can choose to buy the game and play it, or you can choose to buy the game and not play it. You can also choose not to buy the game, as well.
The problem that the author is trying to address has nothing to do with Everquest; It has everything to do with the perception of value. He wants you to know what you're getting into, and he obviously feels that EverQuest is not worth the money.
Some games are addictive; The only difference is that you're not spending $x every month to play Tetris. Saying that 'you can't win' doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There are a lot of games you can't win; I own several of them.
Spy Hunter (the arcade game) was a great game. It cost twenty-five cents, and there's no way to win. It goes on forever. If you want to play Spy Hunter as long as you want to play EverQuest, it'll cost a hell of a lot more, unless you have crazy-mad Spy Hunter skills.
EverQuest offers a flat monthly rate. Some people pay something like $10 an hour for this, because they only play a couple hours a month. Some people are logged in sixteen hours a day. From an entertainment point of view, the people who are 'addicted to the game' are actually getting more value for their money. Read that again. Addicted to EverQuest: Hopeless gamer, or thifty shopper?
Maybe they don't update their site as often as they should. Are site updates part of the cost, or can anyone access them? If you're not paying for it, it does not apply to the 'value for money' problem. Poor updates, inefficient game masters... If you don't want to deal with this, don't buy the game, I suppose. On the other hand, I wouldn't rush out and buy a game that claims 'Kick-Ass Support!' and 'EXTREME GAME-MASTERING.' Game companies in the future will likely feel the same way, and just keep putting hot chicks on the boxes in the store.
All in all, I do appreciate the honesty of the rant, and I do believe that many people may not understand the value proposition of EverQuest before they buy the game and start playing. On the other hand, caveat emptor, baby!
Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation
I think the article made lots of sense. For a roleplaying game, Everquest is one of the most boring games that I have ever laid eyes on. The only thing that keeps people playing it is the fact that it is similar to IRC . . .
.
When Sony bought out Verant, that is when Everquest had possibilities to be a descent game that was cared for to another corporate tool to make money.
But basically, one of my good friend's Dad. Plays this game relentlessly. Every day after work he is at his workstation putting in 4-6 hours. I remember putting in 12 hour sessions at Starcraft a couple of years ago. But, the point is that he is playing the SAME game that he was 2 years ago. Everquest will rule your life if you let it.
Anyway, if people like the game, fine, play it. But, I don't think that Sony is doing that great of a job. Sell your character, make some money and then buy a new game, that doesn't suck you in for two years . .
peace, Snoobs
it's been done before: civ addicts all got together and wrote freeciv. freeciv allows the players to customize every aspect of the game experience; rules, tilesets, etc. it suffers in the graphics department, but it's still a great game. why don't all you everquest addicts all go cold-turkey for six months and write your own game? you may find that working on a real project that you love is a lot more satisfying than daydreaming about your elf earning his new set of magic argyle socks. i'm doing my part: i'm working on an SDL version of the old maxis game robosport.
--
Long-term effects of Bush deficits
I'm in the same boat as the parent poster, mostly because I can't imagine paying per-month play charges. Can anyone fill me in on why EQ would be better or worse than a detailed, well-populated traditional mud? It seems like many of the complaints about EQ would fit into any laundry list of complaints about even the best ol' text based games, which have exactly the same 'addictive' draw but generally don't require you to shell out to Sony.
Honestly, I've been trying to give up Arctic for like 8 years now... would EQ be a decent crutch to wean myself with?
[13:49] [YG]ben: eq saves money on doing other shit
[13:49] [YG]ben: you dont have to go to the "movies"
[13:50] [YG]ben: or go "hang out" whoch in sarasota means spend $20 on something
[13:50] [YG]ben: and a tank of gas laste at least 2 weeks
If Sony can get away with anally raping its customers on EQ, what makes you think they won't do the same and worse on a game where thousands will play simply because it's a Star Wars game?
No, my friend, there will be no happiness in SWG. The same morons that worked on EQ work on SWG... It's silly to expect anything good out of them.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Dude. http://www.everquest.com
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
It's addictive because it's fun.
Whether or not the author wants to admit it, it is VERY MUCH like the BEST parts of a casino, without the chance of losing your entire paycheck (well you could, but at 12.95 per account that's alot of accounts!)
Whether or not he gets 'screwed' by changes he doesn't like, the reason he plays is because he LIKES that moment when you THINK you will all die, but you win in the end.
He LIKES the teamwork.
He LIKES the feeling of progress when you waste 100+ hours but finally get that last brick of whatever.
He LIKES clicking combine and have an item appear on the end of the cursor or a text message show up saying, "You have gotten better at Tailoring (250)".
He LIKES talking to friends.
He LIKES planning things, following through, and tasting victory.
He LIKES seeing: "You have gained experience! Welcome to level 62"
He LIKES going back to places he's been and feeling incredibly powerful, like Sauron blowing through the enemy hordes.
He LIKES see his armor get better, his skills go up, and being able to kill bigger things.
He LIKES all of that, despite bad timing keeping him from getting certain mobs, bad luck keeping him from getting certain drops, bad planning preventing him from keeping things that are too strong for the game design, bad customer service to explain why his uber sword of necro dick licking had to be taken from him.
Most of all, he likes all of that despite his bad perspective that convinces him someone OWES him something. It's a game and it's addictive because it lets you set your own goals and work with other people to achieve them.
Maybe his problem is just that he needs to work on how he sets his goals.
Never confuse volume with power.
"David Sanftenberg ...if he had made it to level 63 before being 0wn3d by some 1337 h4x0r 12 year old with an entire summer to burn playing it, he might not be so disgruntled.
aka Dolalin Bonewielder
62 Necromancer of Lanys T`Vyl"
Else he could just be a poor schmuck that actually PAYS for a game that obviously sound about as fun as hammering a nail through ones "member" as he keeps putting it.
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
Some of what you said is EQ specific. Some is coporate greed and indifference.
At the moment, The Sims Online has just jumped from beta to production, and is "the hot thing" for Electronic Arts. I've got to believe indifference will be minimized at this point; maybe greed, too. The "mob" and "timekiller" stuff doesn't seem to apply.
Should EQers move from pikes to pizza, from dungeons to decorating, swords to Sims?
And the big question for Sony, since any individual player has time for at most one online addiction: How many will switch?
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
And heroin is just a way to get high. Smoke it, inject it, or don't. It's just a drug. People love to hate this game for $13/mo. They can't quit because it is their entire lives. It's fun to begin with, but you just don't quit.
Blaming particular games (particularly in a manner which reeks of personal bitterness) for addictions is like blaming alcohol for alcoholism, or blaming heroin for junkies: it's a foil. The real ones to blame are the ones who are addicted.
As far as i can tell, the story being discussed was not meant to blame Sony for creating an addictive game, it was to blame Sony for creating a poor addiction. It seemed more aimed at convincing current addicts to realize they aren't having fun, and warn new customers away from the game, than to actually alter or condemn the behavior of Sony itself. (Of course, it did seem *very* keen on condemning Sony, but i think that was more meant to be a secondary effect of the article. Altering Sony's behavior, on the other hand, the author appears to have given up on.)
While, yes, of course, it is addictive personalities and addictive substances that are to *blame* for putting persons like Mr. Sanftenberg into situations like this, it is of note that addictive personalities have a wide variety of addictions to choose from, and there is nothing wrong with attempting to steer potential addicts toward more pleasant things to waste their time and effort on than, say, Everquest, even if said steering is done in something of a rather bitter manner. Semianonymous gay sex, as you suggest, is i think a far more rewarding time sinkhole than MMORPGs.
-- super ugly ultraman
He actually describes the game pretty well. :P
You create a character with six vital statistics, a spell/skill book, and a bunch of empty slots for inventory. You put armor and weapons in your inventory slots. You walk your blocky 100-triangle avatar out in a third-person view, you click on a monster to target it, and you hit a key to start auto-attacking it. You sit there twiddling your thumbs until either it dies or you die.
Once you get a few levels, you can start getting spells and skills. These make it slightly less boring -- you make your character sit, and memorize spells, and then drag them to a bar on your screen, and you can hit 1-8 to cast them in battle. It's still pretty boring.
That, right there, is the game in a nutshell. You use a mix of auto-attacking and spells (or, being honest, either one or the other depending on your class) to kill creatures and level up. There is no plot, no rise in stature beyond who has the best items (aka phat lootz) and highest levels. Oh, and one thing the article writer forgot to mention -- those high-level planar raids have to be signed up for on a calendar up to two months in advance.
Yes, that's the game. What people get addicted to is the in-game chat, the shared experiences and what people share when they've got little else to do. I played EQ for two years before getting bored with it, and never got beyond lv20 -- my fondest memory of it is just BSing one night with a friend, drinking myself silly in-game (there's actually an Alcohol Tolerance skill) and doing drunken leaps off the bridges of a tree city called Felwithe.
The author's mostly just a whiny little technogoth -- but the game really doesn't have that much to offer. For the cost of the game and four expansions, and a few months subscription, you could easily buy an XBox and a copy of Splinter Cell, or upgrade your video card and play Doom 3 in a few months... or, my preference, do something nice for your significant other. Believe me, I'd rather have warm arms around me than an item in EQ anyday.
I did appear to be one person's opinion of the Everquest universe, but everyone has their own opinion on MMORPGS. I personally became "addicted" to Asheron's Call (1) and then am currently playing Asheron's Call (2). A much smaller fanbase (7K after 3 weeks of release), compared to over 100,000 for EQ, but I also enjoy playing stand alone games, or free online games such as Halo on Xbox, or AoE on the PC. Homeworld is great, Metal Gear Solid on the consoles as well.
One person's alternate fantasy/addiction is another person's misunderstood waste of money. I think we'll see a lot more MMORPGS come out, some come and go, because people want to interact with other human beings, not a bot, not a macro, not a program. I find a great sense of teamwork having 4-5 other humans from around the world, maybe a magic user or two, a melee, two archers and just healing each other, fighting, some witty banter, and not necessarily the big time commitment of EQ, but enjoy to enjoy the sense of community. Also, in the other games, or on specific servers, people want to KILL each other and have a human opponent to defeat. Each to their own.
One of my most memorable moments in online gaming was surprisingly in WWII Online a few weeks ago. I had chosen to play a French rifleman since the town where the action was didnt have any tanks to spawn, and when I appeared in the base, I heard this drone in the sky. It didnt sound like a bomber, or a lone fighter zipping by, I panned up and looked and saw 5 (YES FIVE) bombers almost in perfect formation heading towards the front lines. Now each bomber can have 3+ humans flying in it, all from different places on the internet. How does one fly in formation online with other people on the internet? I was amazed and laughed, but its a sense of teamwork which will keep the masses coming for more for online games.
Relive the BBS Past - One Byte at a Time! www.ssabbs.com
Every single MUD or MOO ever has had to put up with bitchy users like the author above. Why this article made it on to Slashdot I'll never know. It should be isolated on some cheesy guild blog somewhere. (Slashdot == Whiny Blog Site) ?
you are willing to suck a strangers cock to do it. Anyone ever suck a cock to play eq?
A grown adult man. Talking about a freaking game. As if his human rights are being violated.
A freaking GAME!
I can understand what he's talking about, even if it seems a little extreme. I've seen a similar thing happen with Anarchy Online. I know a few people, and have done all I can to avoid this myself, who have gotten so wrapped up in finding one item or making the "uberest" character they can that it has ruined the game for them. There is one item in particular, the Grid Armor, which is one of the rarest items in the game. The highest version of it, Mk 4, is extremely rare. I have known people who have spent over 100 hours in the game just looking for it or trying to accumulate the credits(the monetary unit) to buy it from another character. A few of them quit when it seemed like if they couldn't get the item, the game wouldn't be fun, yet it wasn't fun trying to get it. There is a point where it stops being so fun, but you keep playing. The most interesting is the people who blame FunCom (the makers of AO) for all their problems. There are still many bugs and inbalances in AO, and some people have quit because of this. Most people continue to play for those really good parts of the game they started for, but dying repeatedly from a bug to the point you can't gain a level really gets on your nerves after a while. I think what it comes down to is the escape from reality. That is where the addiction really lies. It is a roleplaying game, and by it's fundamental quality it allows you to take on another character, personality, and life for a while. In this other world you can have friends, or be successful, or powerful, or whatever it is you really want ot be. I think a lot of people try to use AO as an escape from life and that is where they go wrong. When it isn't all that much more perfect you find you hate it even more than real life because you thought it could be perfect. It's kinda like growing up and wishing you were a kid again when everything was so easy, even though all the same problems of the world were out there. Some people do get nearly addicted to the game, and they are addicted to the escape, in my opinion.
The current game on the market is Dark Age of Camelot, and at this time (although this may change, but hopefully not) it costs half as much at 6 UKP per month, or 5 UKP if you pay for longer in one go. I have not experienced any abuse to date off players. Mainly because the GM's really do stamp on people and ban the accounts when sent evidence of such activities. Any of the above problems are also stamped on, like dragging monsters to other people etc. Players views are taken into account, they welcome logs of encounters for play balance etc. And hopefully they will continue to do so, and not fall into the problems that EQ did. And To be honest if a company wasn't there to make a profit it wouldn't be a company, but a organization.
--+> Life, is there any?
The leveling treadmill is a feature of the "blue" servers, the ones without non-consenting PvP. Playing the game, against the game is only so much fun. Playing the game against other players is the real deal. If someone harasses you, you kill them. Simple. SZ (Sullon Zek server) is unlike any of the other servers. There are no rules. Kinda like the wild west. Oh, and just remember that this is like watching TV or football or any other time waster. Moderation is the key. I actually think that Verant/Sony does a pretty damn good job of the game. Especially considering that a lot of the players are whinny little bitches that can't think for themselves. Muahahahaha!
The author will probably get in trouble because he used the word "vision" without getting permission or including the requisite "TM Sony Online Entertainment". Doesn't everyone know that Verant invented the word "vision" when they were creating EQ, and now sony has the rights, and TRADEMARK....
And before that, all those countless muds and doorgames on BBS. What are you, like 13?
Graphical IRC with some fighting :).
Article failed to mention that people are making real money from the game as people are willing to spend real money to help them get ahead, without having to put the time in. This probably works to EQ's benefit...
If I was going to make an MMORPG I'd certainly have rare items and mobs, but with some more randomness too, and better CR. Obviously I'd want people to get "addicted" so they can stay playing for as long as possible.
I've played EQ on and off for awhile, but had a clean break from it once I put fully installed Linux with no dual boot, until WineX came out of course (but I still only occaisonly play with it...).
As for Legends, yes you get customer service, but you also get more dynamic campaigns with GM run events, something EQ used to do more back when it was still relatively new (and too much complaining by lower levels dying seemed to have helped kill most of these events imho).
StarTux
Of all the comments, the one thing that seems to be underlying all of this is that he has to PAY to PLAY. It seems the writer of the article wouldnt mind the 100+ hour auto-fights, if he didnt have to pay.
Given how many people are playing this, would make an opensource replica work in this case.
The costs could certainly be lower and the response times would increase.
what do you think?
Sigs are dangerous coy things
You buy, you subscribe, and you actually WORK at it. The author is right on target here. Regardless of what Sony does or does not do, people who are unhappy have to realize this isn't entertainment, and there are other things to do, and walk away from it. When any 'game' ceases to be fun, it's work. And amazingly, people are paying for the privilege.
I had the remarkable coincidental meeting, in Brugge, Belgium (apologies to non-earth folk, re: h2g2) to encounter a couple, one night while dining in one of the finer restaurants in that fair city. Their occupation was treating people addicted to the internet, computers, message boards, etc. We talked at length, because my youngest brother clearly was an addict, and much of what we discussed rang true. That was in January, 1994, well before half the USA was on web browsers or knew what an ISP was, let alone Europe and the rest of the world. Imagine the size of the afflicted population now. Please, no P.T. Barnum references, that 'sucker' comment was invented by a reporter.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Wow, sounds like Real Life! And the best part is Real Life is Free!
Nethack .
One of these days I'll ascend, but until them, that dev team is a bunch of complete bastards.
Yep.
Seems like the easiest way to break your Everquest Addiction is to get a life.
When I was playing and it started soaking up lots of my free time and a realized I wasn't having fun, I QUIT!
It was just that simple.
Seriously though - the whole time I was reading this I was thinking 'dude get a life'. Probably the only thing worse than complaining about some lame-ass nerd fantasy game ("Dolalin Bonewielder
62 Necromancer of Lanys T`Vyl"? Riiiiggghhht...)
is reading about someone complaining about some lame-ass nerd fantasy game.
http://www.progressquest.com
I guarantee you won't have any of the problems this guy mentions. There are plenty of monsters, you'll never worry about artificial scarcity. There are fantastic items, and they never get taken away from you. There are no level caps or future expansion packs required. And now that they have added guilds, you can have everything you had in EverQuest, albeit without the fancy 3D rendered graphics.
But this guy said the only factor is spending time, right? Well, then Progress Quest is the best choice...there is no other factor but time!
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
sounds just like whats happening in uo
- the message
It's a fully automated version of Everquest. Just start it up and watch your character advance.
How can you not love that?
You are sooooooooo getting a lawsuit over this article.
I can imagine Sony suing the author for defamation, even though I've been around enough Neversleep (ahem) addicts to know at least MOST this rings true. And the fact that I will never subscribe to this (or any other MMORPG) because I feared garbage like this would evolve from it, might lead Sony to claim phenomenal damages.
Dude, you are soooooooo in trouble.
Counter-Strike is where it is at. Valve appears to care, the players stay happy, the cheaters usually get caught, the friends are more real (relativly speaking) . Spend your 3 months of Evercrack cash on some Half life baby. You will enjoy it- Many people I know have switched for good.
Why fight the addiction, find a cheaper crutch!
... so I'll begin with this:
... you begin to hate the game. Vehemently. ... the one thing all players have in common is that they all hate Sony ...
And here I was, foolishly thinking I was enjoying the game. Thank god there are people like "Bonewielder" Sanftenberg writing "excellent articles" that tell me what to think.
Ok, that's pretty sarcastic, but dammit I'm sick and tired of people trying to prop up their arguments with obviously, provably false statements like "all people feel this way." If your arguments can't stand on their own without adding on "everybody agrees with me", perhaps you need to re-evaluate your position.
Much of the rest of this rant is a stereotypical hatchet job: ignore the positives, overstate (or outright invent) the negatives, cluttering your document with falsehoods along the way.
Bah. I've wasted enough of my life on this time sink of a rant.
Oh, by the way, if you want to ask some players without their panties in a wad, these are the people to talk to:
Wizards
Warriors
Rogues
And finally, the truly sick in the head obsessed players:Tradeskillers
Never confuse volume with power.
"... leaving you holding your member... the 60 people in your guild are left holding your collective members for six months... Your guild is then left holding their collective members once again..."
I didnt know people got off playing EQ... I guess with AOL doing away with their sex chat rooms, something had to fill the void...
You are one sick puppy...
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
While Mr. Sanftenberg has written a very compelling piece as to why Everquest is the bane of gamers everywhere, it is the single opinion of a single person, who from what I can see, does not have any credentials besides his own (obviously bitter) experience playing the game.
With the reach and influence of slashdot, do those who decide what to post ask themselves "should we post this"? Note that I have never played, nor do I ever plan to play Everquest, however, I feel that without posting an opposing view, Slashdot has obviously taken an editorial stance on this issue that could influence a large community. I have noticed this type of article being posted more often of late, which leads me to wonder what direction /. is moving in. What happens when /. posts an article that is against something that is truely a good thing, but because of the contributors skewed (and unprofessional) view of things, and this site's influence, the result is overly negative in the real world?
Some responsability or accountability should be taken when deciding what articles to post, and when they are completely based on one person's views (especially one as bitter as Mr. Sanftenberg), some effort should be made to ensure the other side of the story is posted, so that the reader can see the entire picture! Otherwise, the article should not be posted at all!
Moderators rate people's comments, but perhaps Moderators, or the general readership of /. should be able to rate the post itself, and whether it is appropriate to be on /. at all.
-Lokatana
Damn, beat me to it. Just a little too slow...
I found the game to be pretty boring...it costs too much time to build your character and nothing exciting occurs until you get to the 35th level(or so I'm told).
I think the appealing part of this game is that you get to do things together with other people and accomplish gaols--but I'm not a social person(by habit is more anti-social) and playing solo is pretty boring.
It is always the solution. Gamlbing, alcohol, TV, anything. YOU GIVE IT UP.
After such a long post about a game that is buggy and the corporate-sized publisher that "cares more about profit" (surprise?) - I felt like this guy needed intervention, not sympathy.
If this were a single player RPG with bots, he'd play it, review it and be done. Upgrade, patch and expand, yay. But who cares after a while? It's a game! REMEMBER THAT PART?
mug
excellent suggestion.
The real world is much too dangerous. When I am playing EQ and I am among my guild I feel safe.
Where but in EQ can I make friends and have a good time?
I played EQ for most of the past 3 years since it came out. I would play on my least active days only 4 hours; most of the time it was 8-10 hours of eq. From the moment I got off my classes to 4 am in the morning...stopping only to grab dinner and do a little studying.
The game is as the man says - Pure addiction. I finally quit a few months ago and it was harder then when I quit smoking. Smoking might have been tough physically with the shakes, but theres nothing like the feeling you've lost 60 of your best friends in a high level guild that raids together EVERY night. It's hard to replace a dedicated 4 hour block evernight where you win, lose, and struggle together as a team.
Now at least those 8 hours a day can be used to study for Circuits!
...and I enjoyed it. I got tired of the 'lamer factor' and quit. Too many kiddies showing off their next surrogate penis.
...means this guy has been doing this non-stop, every night, for at least 18 months - and he needs to get a fucking life.
Allow me to translate one part of Mr. Sanftenberg's article:
"62 Necromancer of Lanys T`Vyl"
That morons the sort of which get addicted to games like this are not likely to heed your wanring anyway. I mean, seriously people, it's a game, it's meant to fun, if it's not, don't play. It's called free will, and no, it's not $12.95 a month.
Heroin is a chemical dependency. EQ is quite literally a lifestyle choice.
If you think you have a problem...
I spent much of my teens playing videogames. Although I found time to do other things ( played high school bball for a number of years ), it was not uncommon for me to put in 18 hour days, several days in succession during break. And all in all I preferred video games to people a lot of the time, which I suspected was not healthy.
I started my computer science degree because of this fascination with games.
Eventually it occurred to me that the video game was just a generic "challenge" for me, and that there were more rewarding challenges out there because the payoffs are not mostly virtual.
My point is find out what the game really does for you, then try different things that fulfill that need. For me...
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
I'm not gonna sit here and "defend" Sony or Verant or Absor or any of them, even though I have had the pleasure of meeting with them personally and sharing beers with them. This article is obviously by a bitter gamer who wants to smear EQ's reputation through the mud, and that's fine. This is the age of the Internet, and it's his right to do that.
:>
I left the Guide program due to hardware issues about a year ago - after about two years of service. This was back when we had our own GM on the server, but it was difficult to get in touch with him during his work hours. Why? Because of kids. Because he had to clean up after scammers and recover lost items...He was insanely busy for his entire shift, and he wouldn't really be on server all that much.
When I was a Guide, I can safely say that out of every 20 petitions I fielded, I was able to help about 17 or 18 of them. I was able to help the majority of the players I conversed with during my shift. But you don't hear about them. You don't hear about the people that had the volunteer CS staff help them in a quick and expedient manner. They don't come out and say "Thank you." You only heat about people like the author of this article, who feels he has been wronged. The ones that say that we didn't care.
And then, there are the people who petition and won't let you help them. Even if you do exactly what they ask, they will still curse you out and and call you incompetent. Or, if you inquire more information about the problem, they demand that you stop asking questions and just fix it. (As if we had access to the source code and could just recompile it on the fly...) Yes, I know. This is reality. This is how I was treated working in Retail, too. But luckily, people like this were very, very, VERY few and far between.
We did care about every situation, every petition. I was a Guide on one of the two Teams-PvP servers, so not only did we have to deal with training and kill stealing, but we also had corpse campers, bind rushers, and immortal healing. Some of these were no-nos, and some of these (like immortal healing, where someone outside of PvP range would heal someone who's killing you) were deemed "Okay" by Sony. Did I agree with the ruling? Not really, but there's really not much Guides could do. The author of the article is right - we pretty much had our hands and feet tied. We were the eyes and ears of the GM's - nothing more. We could unstick players from walls and document warnings for behavior if they were dumb enough to still do it while we were staring at them. (We could be invisible.)
I don't know how things are now inside the program, but I can say that when I was in it, we actually were helping many people and people enjoyed their time in EQ because of the ways we helped them. There are far more of those type of people than the type of people like the author of this article. However, everybody that will reply to my message here will be the bitter types that will tell me that I'm just a Sony PR person that believes the kool-aid fed to me by Michelle Butler for two years. (Just you watch, some AC will just cut and paste that exact sentence, or change a word or two.)
I stopped playing EverQuest because all my friends did - and there was no reason to stick around. However, we're all waiting for Star Wars: Galaxies. And you guessed it, it's by the same guys who made EQ.
For the bitter ones, you might want to stay away from all online games, because it will just be "Wash, Rinse, Repeat" for you.
If you're still open to an enjoyable experience, we're in for one helluva ride.
I think the moral of this whole topic is: EQ in moderation is awesome. But don't let yourself get bitter. That only brings you down.
I'm not quite sure if this really belongs on Slashdot... It is, after all, not much more than a glorified whine.
That said:
The author seems to have neglected the megainflation that I have heard plagues EQ, thanks to a combonation of exploits in the economy and macroing. This is probably the main reason I'm glad I'm playing DAoC instead of EQ.
I think EQ will prove to be just a beta for MMORPGs to come. (Well, UO initially did, EQ improved on that, and then come EQ's successors). Dark Age of Camelot, which I play, seems to have taken a lot of the best elements of EQ, while removing its flaws.
Customer Support: Biggest negative about DAoC - It is a bit better than EQ's, but still leaves much to be desired. Mythic does sometimes put in highly demanded features, but in other cases sees fit to completely ignore a poll that says 80%+ of players want a particular feature, without even commenting on why they don't want to implement it.
Economy: DAoC has zero inflation. A guild can go from rich to flat broke in 2 weeks just by claiming a frontier keep. Guess that needs some explaining, so now to explain how DAoC makes gameplay a lot more enjoyable long-term.
In EQ, it appears there are two types of servers - Standard servers where you can't attack any other players, and PvP servers where you can attack anyone. Standard servers - They get boring pretty quickly. PvP - Lots of cheaters and getting flattened by the hardcore players. DAoC is halfway between the two - The game is split into three realms. You can't attack anyone from your own realm, but it's open season on the other two. Each realm has a frontier with small castles (keeps), and there are rewards for killing people from other realms (realm points) and capturing keeps (Access to a high-level dungeon with above average loot/XP per mob and power/strength relics). This allows you to level to 50 peacefully, and then go out and start flattening other players.
Keep doors take wood to upgrade/repair. Wood costs LOTS of money... As a result, DAoC has no inflation. (There are also no ways a macroer can make quick cash, since not a single item sells for more than the cost of its ingredients.)
Some servers have worse "uber guild" attitudes than others. But even on the worst servers attitude-wise, players from smaller guilds are almost always welcome in small hunting groups and RvR raids.
Thanks to recent patches, almost any item in the game can be crafted. Thanks to this, there isn't intense competition over loot drops, because people can customize their own weapons/armor complete with stat bonuses. (At a price, of course...)
There's an upcoming game called EVE that is going to have an insanely complex and intricate economy, where it's entirely possible to progress without any violence whatsoever. It should prove interesting if it lives up to the hype.
From all I've heard about SOE's track record, I'm not so sure if SWG will live up to its hype...
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There are many people that cannot do without a certain thing even though they are in no chemical process attached to it. Such is Everquest. To tell someone just to 'stop' is like telling a kleptomaniac to stop stealing or an alcoholic to stop drinking. It can be done but it is not easy and there will always be the draw to go back to it
I do security
There are other things in life. If everquest is your life then you have serious problems. Add some variety to your life. Play other games. Go to museums or theater. Find a girlfriend. Everything in moderation.
Your guild is then left holding their collective members once again. Do you see the pattern forming here?
Now I know what they do during those 30 minute battles!
I just tried some everCrack last month as I was invited to play the third phase of the Beta for PS2 platform. And a lot of what this guy had to say was right on for my expierence. I had heard about eq, and daoc, and even played some games like DiabloII and noticed that people will exert power wherever they can. Players who revel in killing off other players (DiabloII) or leeching loot (eq). I had some incident where a MOB (new term for me) respawned and some members from my new guild killed the MOB thinking it was for me. However it wasn't and the other group had to wait for another respawn (8 minutes) and then I had to wait... it was infuriating. There was bad blood in the air and if we were all in the same meat space I'm sure a fight would have broken out.
I thought these games would be the ultimate incarnation of the games I grew up with (old SSI games like pools of radiance and bard's tale series) however the missing piece of that game (the human element) can sometimes make it more miserable an expierence. Ironically it's the human element that can make games really fantastic (like in CounterStrike...) but perhaps there is just a certain discipline (server admins who care about the players etc) to those games that commercial ones will lack. After playing the EQ beta on PS2 I was hooked. Like crack hooked. But considering what I just read and the expierences I've already had I doubt I would pay a monthly subscription for this.
To sum up, if your an old rpg fan like I am wait for something like phantasy star online or gta4 (which will hopefully be online) or just play NeverWinter Nights!
At least netrek is addictive without the monthly cash.
And the game hasn't been improved in years! (Well, unless you count the extinction of Paradise...)
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Over at ultima online, we hate Electronic Arts too.
We play and play and play for years.
We only stick around because we hope it will get better and because we like the people we have met.
Of course, apparently they started to listen and are changing things around again. But only time will tell if it sucks or not... At least PK'ing is back.
Did the EULA Sony presented you with require that you keep playing a game you hate?
Did it take over your PC and allow nothing else?
Don't talk bollocks. Try setting your goal as working alone or with a single partner. Try setting you goal as ridding the world of monsters or evil or whatever; can't be done.
EQ is a badly designed load of shit game that lives off it's players' foolish belief that anyone that designs a game must, surely, want the game to be interesting and fun and that if it turns out not to be either the company will fix it. That way they don't have to rationalise to themselves why they wasted hundreds of dollars on a piece of crap, and don't even have the piece of crap to show for it at the end!
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
This is just a rant from a disillusioned player.
I hate to use this line, but "nobody is forcing him to play".
I've "quit" EQ two times, gave all my stuff away, and deleted all my chars. Then I came back after the following expansion. I've had fun more than not, and that's why I keep coming back.
I also have made plenty of friendly associates in game (and I started playing when EQ first opened). I've made few enemies. It's not difficult to NOT make enemies. If there's a problem, ignore them, or even move on.
I'm not even going to try to address all his points, but one really grabs my attention. He complains of trains, player arguments over mobs, loot, etc. There are a ton of zones to play in, and at any given time most of them are nearly empty. Sure, the high level game leaves players with fewer options and fewer places to hunt/raid, but if that's a problem, quit the game or make a new char.
I won't refute his argument that Sony is only after money. But I will say that in my opinion, there is fair value for the $13/month price (and it's cheaper if you buy blocks of months).
Sounds like it's time for that tired necro to pack it up and get on with life.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
I believe EverQuest was a mud back in the day...
Don't forget the expansion coming out, Kingdom of Stone, the phone version coming out, the single player version coming out, EQ2, and of course, EQ for the PS2.
... it's easy to stand there and laugh at those of us who have been there and tell us simply to "stop" or "don't".
For someone who has never had to kick a habit, like drugs, drinking, sex, smoking, etc
Face it, people are stupid, and the internet is the place where they all meet.
AC is way better and the develpoers listen to the players.
http://acvault.ign.com/
Most of these complaints are the same ones that have been around for a lot longer than EverQuest has been. GemStone III had people whining about the same things. "my sword of death got weaker", "I can't use uber-ability to kill everything now", "there aren't enough of the easy-to-kill creature around", "the GM's are too slow/incompetent". Having quit the game and looking back, I think those things are actually for the better.
Nerfing items makes perfect sense if the item is too powerful. Weakening over-powerful abilities also makes sense. If they don't do that, you'll end up with a world of everyone being the exact same character. Imagine the fun of having everyone be the exact same. Also, ask anyone who uses the item or ability that was weakened, before it was weakened, if it was too strong, and they will say no. Ask every person in the game if their strongest ability in the game is more powerful than any other, and every person will say that it's not the most powerful. They may stand there using an ability over and over because of its power to kill things they shoulnd't be able to, but they'll deny it's too powerful.
If they have too many of an easy creature, then you end up with everyone killing the same thing at the same place, and half of the game sits empty cause it's a little bit harder than the ridiculous easy area. They don't want everyone cramming into one tiny area, so they add scarcity.
What do you expect from the GM's really? You want them to look in depth at every claim. You whined the waits were too long already, but if they looked into as much depth as you want for every call, they would make the waits into several months for a single request. While hiring more GM's might make the situation a bit better, Sony is a company that wants to make a profit, and each person they hire takes some chunk of money Sony wants for itself. The only real solution is to not whine to the GM's every time something bad happens. If, another guild brings you a bunch of creatures, kill the creatures or run away. Weren't you whining there weren't enough earlier? Where did the guild find all of these exotic creatures?
At this point there are two choices: Get over it or quit playing. Pick one, but please quit whining.
If you can do with out the graphics, there's still plenty of free MUDs out there.
I gave 'em up years ago, but man, they were fun. And if you managed enough levels, you usually got the chance to learn to code and add your own stuff onto the game. It was quite an enjoyable experience.
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
They are NEVER worth it. It wasn't obvious to me 3 years ago when I bought Ultima Online, but it should have been. From the sound of it, EQ is much worse then UO. I only lasted a few months in UO before I took one good hard look and said "no more". It's always exactly like this article describes, and much worse. It won't be what you think. I was so naive. I used to think, how fun it would be to jump into some midevil village and assume the role of a baker or a blacksmith or something. You know, work your way up from an apprenticeship. Get to know the townsfolk. Travel to distant lands. Go on daring adventures. That's how it's advertised. That's never how it is. You will not have interesting or stimulating conversation in the game, and unless you know the people you hang around with personally, they either won't be there long or will be just to use you. The realm will almost certainly be overcrowded and the gameplay will definitely not be balanced. Also, the gameplay won't have much of a concept of the quaint medieval life you imagined when you purchased it. There will be no such thing as apprenticeships and little in game help. Guilds will not be fun and development in any skill or character class will most certainly be tedious. The only reason these people keep playing is not to waste the hours they've already put into it. It is not fun. It is a complete psychological addiction. There is no reward from it. More hours are spent so the previous hours will not be a waste. But they already are. Spending more time won't change that. The only thing you can do is cut your losses and stop playing. And if you haven't started, don't buy these games. They are not worth it.
damn /.
ate my less-than rant greater-than in subject.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
The first step is admitting you have an addiction. Congradulations. I have included the rest of the steps here for you.
Open - My Computer
Choose - Add/Remove Programs
Uninstall - EverQuest
Optional - Make a list of people who's lives have been affected by your addiction, and apoligize to them.
Disclaimer: I once worked for Sony. I don't speak for them in any way. I have my praise for them and my problems with them. But I don't get all whiny and specious about it in public.
The original article is a troll. The writer vastly exaggerates the addiction, the problems, and the state of the game.
I've played the game since three months after release and I still enjoy it. I've gotten good customer service. I don't obsess over it; I take breaks.
The ones with addiction problems who hate the game yet can't stop -- they have problems that don't stem from EverQuest. EverQuest addiction is merely a symptom of an obsessive personality or other psychological issues.
Hmmm, time-consuming, buggy, sucks down money, built to keep you enthralled, no joy yet you have to do reptitive tasks endlessly- wow, is this an EverQuest or a Microsoft article?
Sorry, just had to do it.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
Up until about a week ago, I was completely addidcted to EQ. I had this horrible epiphony while grinding exp where I suddenly realized how boring this really was. I had been playing this character for 1.5 years, had him up to level 53(out of a total of 65), and just knew that I could NEVER accomplish my in-game goals. After 2 years I had gone beyond the fun of it, the roleplaying factor, and the friend factor. I was in it for two things: loot and power. For about 6 months now, I had been bullshitting myself. I would read the webpages of the uber-guilds and see requirements like: 8 hours a night, everynight, logged in play time, or you WILL be removed from the guild. I'd look over at my wife feeding my daugther and give a big "fuck that" to the game. I often wish I could go back and start over. The fun in this game isn't at lvl 65 doing uber crazy raids. It's a few lvl 10's in a some dank forest running for their lives. I really wish I would've appreciated that when I was in that place.
But no matter, after a few "uninstalls" over the last few month where I would re-install it 6 hours later, I finally broke the addiction last week. I told a freind my password while I was at work, he logged in without my account, wiped all my characters permanently and canceled my account. He then came to my work, I gave him my house key, and he went home and snapped every single EQ cd I owned in half. It sounds pretty fucking pathetic, but after failing to quit multiple times, it needed to be done. Hell, I've had a new 2ghz/geforce 4ti4600 rig since August, and NOTHING was installed on it except windows 2k, and EQ. THAT'S IT.
Seriously, quit the fucking game. Their's a ton of really dope games coming out soon, and none of them require 12 hours a day from you. Now, to bust out some Impossible Creatures.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
You sit down at a table with a little board with 64 squares. You choose one of two colors, white or black. Not many choices in Chess huh?
You get 6 different types of pieces and each one can move in a slightly different fashion. The goal is to capture the "King".
That, right there, is the game in a nutshell.
--
Like most games that require skill, it can be a little boring until you gain some. At level 20 you had barely opened your eyes to the game. I personally enjoyed the hell out of EQ for my first 20 levels. Seeing new places, meeting new people, getting my ass handed to me and learning how to go back and hand out a beating of my own.
EverQuest isn't for everyone, but it's not nearly as trivial a thing as the parent post would like you to think. Try it. If you don't like it, you have wasted about as much money as a movie at the theater.
You know what I love about EQ players like this one? They get treated like crap and continue pumping cash and effort into a game that most companies would consider to be in the "Alpha" state of development as far as quality is concerned.
And they never just quit. These people are losers, dorks with no lives and no spines. I have an EverQuest account that has been active for a couple years. I haven't logged on in months, and one of these ultimate-losers (I don't even know who anymore.) pays the bill for me. EQ players need to wake up and smell the damned latte: YOU ARE LETTING PEOPLE EXPLOIT YOU. Now I will present the steps to getting over EverQuest.
1- Cancel your account. Really.
2- Move out of your Mom's basement.
3- Get a haircut, and I mean a real one, not just a trim of that disgusting mop on your head. I don't care if you look like Richard Stallman or black-and-white era beatles, have a barber make you look like a man.
4- Shave. Daily.
5- See a dermatologist. Stop using that excuse about an HMO approval and just spend the fucking 6- Buy nice new clothes. Get them somewhere nice like Macy's, Bloomingdale's, or Lord and Taylor.
7- Put on your nice clothes, go out into the world, and make friends who are NOT gamers. Girls are especially nice.
8- Have fun. Learn what sunlight is like. Get a dog and take him camping with you.
At this point, when you have realized what REALLY matters in life, you can start playing EverQuest again. Only then will you be able to get over all the little bugs and bad customer service, because you just won't care anymore.
telnet mirkwoodmud.org 4000
"More organs means more human." - Zim
Make all EQ players have 14.4 dialup connections. Then thy won't complain. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No matter how good the game actually is, it's really a service, so you you'd be a fool not to take possible customer service issues into consideration before signing up. Unless of course Mommy and Daddy are paying for the subscription; then you don't have to worry about wasting your own money, just the fact that you're selfish enough to waste theirs.
Besides, the author does go into detail about the game, but the article is plenty long enough already. So if money isn't an issue (which seems logical since you don't seem to care much about the service aspects of EQ), then why not just sign up and find out for yourself?
Of course people could just stop (the same as with any addiction), but when you reach that point your perspective is skewed. You don't want to give up the time you have invested and will overlook the faults hoping against hope that Verant will get off their arses and fix the problems with the next expansion or update. Of course what usually happens is the problems don't get fixed, but the cycle repeats.
I was in the same situation myself. Although I wasn't "hardcore" (playing an hour or two at most a night), and have a real life too, I found it quite a struggle to leave. I can well imagine that others would find it nigh on impossible. Ironically for me it was Verant themselves who managed to snap me out it. The Shadows of Luclin expansion release was such a hamfisted, buggy travesty that I lost all confidence that they ever gave a crap about the game. Considering the ludicrous amounts of money they made each months on subs I was damned if I was going to put up with it any more.
It doesn't sound from their pre-release attitude with their Star Wars rpg that they have learnt from the experience. SW players can look forward to being fucked over and ignored, bugs will go unfixed, the game will be repetitive, and expansions will still be buggy, but a hardcore will still be addicted despite that.
You mean Sony isn't concerned for my personal welfare? That they just want my **money**? Next thing you'll be saying is that they don't really care about those recording artists they represent either.
Capitalism can be a cruel mistress...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
It's not real life. It's not real life. It's not real life.
Maybe we need a self-help group for these poor loosers?
It's not real life, it's not real life.
Relationships? Peer pressure? You turn it off and walk outside - my god, real life! Real people!
Truth. Victimhood is rampant. When was the last time you heard someone not blame something. Just say "Yeah, I guess that's just me" or "I was wrong"? Awhile? No shit.
"I really wasted a few months on that online game. I feel as if I'm wasting my life. Live and learn. How about doing something productive with my time?"
Also:
Couching this in the second-person passive voice does not fool anyone.
will absorb your life if you let it
Stop speaking for me. I'm old enough to think for myself. I think you need to get "addicted" to something like work.
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
Sure, Runescape doesn't have the best graphics (though they are planning on changing that soon), but you can play it for free as long as you want (they have and enhanced "members" version, for which you need to fork a $5 monthly fee) and it runs on any platform with a Java 2 plugin available (I play it on Linux).
Heffel
Expert Java EE Consulting
Just my one cent. (taking off the one cent bonus since it doesn't have much to do with the article)
While I've never played Everquest, I am familiar with obsessive\compulsive behavior (through my own experiences). :). Pen & paper RPG's have several advantages over online, in that the players interact face to face, there is more room for creative input, more options for character development, and ultimately costs less. It still won't get you laid, though :)
The problem, I think, is that by the time a game like this stops being fun you have a huge time investment in it. Walking away from the game at that point would be difficult, because then it would feel like all those hours (or weeks, months, years) were wasted. Even if you are not having fun, I imagine that it feels like you have to keep playing simply to justify all the time you've already put into it.
Of course, the sad thing is that this time is already "wasted", since there can never be a conclusion to these games. Since the only real reward of these games is the fun you have, then if it stops being fun you should stop playing. For a while, at least. Maybe it will be fun to play again if you stop for a few months.
As an aside, I think Everquest addicts should stop playing EO and maybe start up a D&D (or other pen and paper based rpg) with their friends, to wean themselves away from it (sortof like methadone
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo
Sounds like Sony needs to go back and read about all the mistakes and lessons learned during Lucasfilm's Habitat program. They had similar problems with customer support issues. In thier case, the designers solved problems withing the rules of the game when they could so things made sense ... the employees of Quantum Computer services (Lucasfilms partner on the project) on the other hand would just go in and change stuff. ... care must be taken to solve problems within the "rules" of the game or the illusion is ruined.
These games create a virtual world and as such
I agree, after reading the article I just felt like saying to him. "It looks like someones online character needs to do a little meditating". :-)
I'm personaly am not interested in a game where you are unable to win or at least get a high score like the good old days. Maybe if I had enough time and money I'd try Everquest just to form my own opinion of the game.
Shit, I quit smoking, you'd at least think people could quit a video game.
I am waiting for Progress Quest to come out for Linux.
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
The way I see it, whether or not someone decides they want to blow all of their money on a game is strictly up to them. Yes, it is wrong the way Sony is going about maintaining things, but if people stay and play and only complain about the environment, never actually doing anything about it ( like quitting and getting a game you only have to pay once for ), then they are doing it to themselves and Sony will continue to rake in the dough.
In a way it is like a casino, if people are going to keep pumping their money in, how are you ever going to stop the addiction to gambling, or in this case, gaming?
Eventually the people who are addicted to game may run out of money and what then? Will they resort to getting the money by other means? Who knows. All we know at the present time is that Sony sees that they have a good thing going and are not going to stop it. The gamers seem to like the abuse and problems and stay playing the game through the turmoil of problems that aare apparently present. The only way to put an end to Sony making so much on this game is to stop everyone from playing it once and for all and I doubt that will happen. All we can do is hope that an article, like the one above, can open the eyes of many of the gamers who find themselves engrossed in this fantasy world and maybe, by some small miracle, they will stop playing the game. Then again, I could be really dilusional.
All I know is I actually looked at Everquest when it first came out and when I saw that I had to pay every month to play it, that was enough to deter me from getting it.
Just my .02
Regards, jlkI can accept that about a lot of drugs, even coke. But heroin? C'mon, you have got to be trolling!
There has to be education. If nobody knew that Heroin is addictive and can kill you, I'd be willing to bet a lot more people would be riding the H-train. I know I would. People with addictive personalities need to be educated about what certain things will do to them.
I am an addict of many things (Coffee, Cigs, biting my nails, etc.). It took me 4 years to realize that I had spent 9 months of those 4 years playing computer games. This was before Everquest. I won't blame my failed marriage on video games, but I will not rule out the fact that they aggravated our problems. I have since thrown out all of my consoles, and computer games. I get an occasional fix at a friend's house, but it's still hard to get me away from it once I'm playing, no matter what the game.
I'm not saying that video games are as addictive as Heroin, but they're worse than coffee. I won't disregard what someone is saying because I'm enjoying a particularly good cup of coffee. I have a friend who has gone through 4 playstations destroying them out of anger. He can't even count how many controllers he's broken. I have another friend who has attended one social event in 5 years. It was a New Year's Party. He had to leave early. He was celebrating the holiday 4 times (time zones) with his clan. I don't have a coffee clan.
There is a reason my friends and I refer to games as "crack". When a person is playing they are "cracking out". Co-worker quote: "I'm going home to sleep. I cracked out till four last night."
Yes we can blame the people who play. They are addicts. But they are uneducated addicts.
Doesn't this make Sony a drug cartel?
You just click "Cancel Account" under account options... Worked for me on my first two accounts (I've got three right now: I've been playing since Beta 3 and still love it... The author is just a freak :-P)
Hmm... Were we reading the same article. I think he clearly states why it is addicting. Since you have never played you obviously did not understand the visuals he so clearly illustrated.
You know, my initial thought was to respond to this in detail. I played EQ for some time, and eventually got bored with it and quit. Thus, the *GAME* is not any more addictive than any other recreational activity. Many, many people are far more "addicted" to television, sitting in front of the tube letting the hours melt away with absolutely nothing to show for it (and in fact, paying a monthly subscription to a cable company or satellite provider!).
Why don't you go on about how these poor people are being mistreated by the television networks? Afterall, THEY have no say in what they get to watch either. Customer service never pays any attention to the television viewer, and certainly diputes amongst family members over what channel will be turned on are ignored. Why some kids will actually set the VCR up to tape a channel just to keep their sibling from watching something else! Artificial scarcity of resources and regular "spawns" of TV shows are commonplace here too.
It's a game. It's a way to ignore reality for some amount of time so you don't become so depressed/angry at your situation/boss/President/etc, that you go postal. When it starts being more effort than fun, you stop playing it. If you can't do that, you have an addictive personality and need help. Be thankful you're only addicted to a $10/month game instead of crack or trips to the casino!
Not every game needs to have a "win-state". The point of a mud (and EQ is nothing more than a DikuMUD with a graphics engine replacing the room engine) is to enjoy playing it... there often is no ultimate goal (well, for some it was becoming a builder... but you can't do that with Sony), other than to be more powerful than your neighbor. The main difference is that a graphical mud doesn't let you use your imagination the way a text game does. Try reading a book instead of watching a movie sometime, you might get the idea.
Thanks to your review I can guarantee I will never play Everquest, the mention of timesinks alone is enough to turn one off.
This doesn't mean that all online games are like this though, or that they have to be. I've been playing Unreal Tournament 2003 for the past few weeks, and it has been a blast. No monthly fees, no hoops to jump through, just plain fun.
Maybe it's not the Everquest game that is so bad, as the sales model.
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
Comparing EQ to heroin is kind of a strech isn't it? I've heard tell of people not feeding their kids just so they could get their next fix of heroin.... I doubt anyone would stoop to this level to keep playing EverQuest.
Maybe I should have added that all my friends were addicted to it, and altho I no longer played, I've seen them go through 30 to 60, and just never saw much difference. About the only thing I ever enjoyed seeing on their monitors was seeing the Planes for the first time. Really, I think I actually did myself a huge favor by getting out before 25 when the game still felt new to me, but just not interesting enough to continue paying. Of them, only two of them are still playing, and that's mostly because they've got too many friends in their guilds to put it down. The rest have all either gotten bored with twiddling thumbs between raids or decided that money would be best spent elsewhere or saved in the current economy.
:P
FYI, I'm also not a newbie to MMOGs -- I used to be a regular reader of Lum the Mad, and I've also gone through UO, AC, AO, and DAOC in their turn. I'm not saying all MMORPGs are boring, but I would definitely say that Everquest is the least entertaining in the long run of them all.
Although it could be worse. You could be playing World War 2 Online.
I know a lot of you have probably considered smoking crack. Your friends probably tell you how much fun it is, and you're just extremely curious what the fuss is all about. Well, before you do try it, let me tell you that it's not as great as it may seem at first.
;)
The first thing you have to keep in mind is that the crack dealers don't care about you, they care about the money. I know this is difficult to believe, but they are in the crack-selling business for a reason. They don't care about your enjoyment or satisfaction -- only that they can make the next payment on their SUV with 24" wheels.
You might sell foodstamps for 2 weeks, hoping to be able to score enough crack to last for the week, only to find that, thanks to the other crackheads, your local dealer is out (or charging more). It becomes a competition; you have to get there first, and be on top of things, or you risk losing out.
You no longer enjoy smoking crack, but you just can't seem to quit doing it. Behind his back, you curse your dealer, yet you still buy more crack. Customer service is non-existant, and you don't dare question your dealer. You just deal with what he offers you, when he offers it, and at whatever prices he demands. It's no longer about enjoyment.
It becomes a game of pawning off your valuables (and those of your loved ones), selling food stamps, your body, and anything else you can sell. But you just can't quit; your crackhead friends will curse you, call you a quitter, and even hate you for it. So you just keep doing it.
Hopefully this will shed some light for those who were considering trying crack, or who's friends keep telling them how much fun it is. Crack isn't all it's cracked up to be, so don't waste your money. Since I'm much smarter than everyone else here, I felt I had to tell you these obvious things, and bitch and moan for a while because my dealer is an ass, and I'm broke, and fiending...
(I think I am extremely bored...
By that time though, you're so "addicted" to the Slashdot, you don't realize it. Slashdot becomes a source of frustration and anger instead of a source of entertainment and fun. It becomes a chore. It becomes a job. You plod away at the keyboard, obsessed and consumed with getting that new karma point, or finishing that last post, and while so consumed you begin to hate Slashdot. Vehemently. It's a game that goes on forever, and one that you can never win.....
After playing the game for a while, you'll start conversing with other players, and you'll see the one thing all players have in common is that they all hate the Slashdot system...
And it's coming to the PS2 early next year too. Hopefully the expansion pack problem won't affect PS2 users, but it's still the same set of issues... things you have to kill that infrequently respawn, other guilds dicking you over, etc.
You whiny sniveling little bitch...
No game system is perfect, neither is customer service.
Those familiar with paper-based RPGs understand this. Balancing is always a problem. How realistic you make the world is a problem. Do I use a d20 system, or a d6 system. You'll never find a perfect system. I play D&D, Call of Cthulu, Spy Craft, and a pleathora of other games, which no longer exhist because of someone's monopolistic tendancies WotCHasbro.
As for customer service. When you consider the vast number of people that play the game, it is amazing there aren't worse problems. You whine about this, that and the other thing, and you play one of the most powerful soloing classes in the game. What's wrong with you. I work a full-time job (during the day), and come home and casually play (occasionally play a few hours) after work, and have as of yet run into these major problems of MOB accessiblity that you complain about.
What about the flames, the harrassment? Welcome to real-life bubble boy. We are fucking human beings not god damned robots. Flames, and harrassment occur as a result of that. You have some fairly unrealistic expectations if you think you aren't going to get the occasional flame, train, or sexual comeon.
Time pits... hmm... sounds like an awful lot of projects I work on in real-life. When was the last time you ever worked on a thing that took mere seconds or minutes to accomplish? This is a roleplaying game. There are some tasks that take hours and days to accomplish, yes. And yes somethings can be very tedious (try being and Iksar Shadowknight working on Greenmist), but that is to be expected for a good item. What did you think you could dump coin on your character and be able to go buy all the uber crap in the game to twink out your Necro? I seriously hope not, because if you did you missed the point of roleplaying. Right now I am running a Call of Cthulu campaign, and in a 5-6 hour session was only able to accomplish 1 day in the game world. Sounds pretty damn tedious to me, and I was the bloody GM.
SO... to summarize. Yes the game does have its problems. Why be so stunned that something that is so damn big, and requires so many resources does have problems. Why worry about other people's "harrassment"? Why worry about the length of some of the quests? You choose to have fun. Not Sony, not Verant, not the people in the game that you group or raid with, you do. I can't understand how a person who is playing one of the best soloing classes, can be so whiny and negative. If anyone has any right to bitch it would be me and my roommate. We're taking the hardest approach to the game, we're Iksar Shadowknight. Guess what I wouldn't change that for love nor money :D
Bizarre how all the games seem to be based on capitalism. Is it that we don't enjoy anything else? Are we really this greedy at heart?
Anyway, the ideas are basically the same, just on a smaller scale. People from across the world would telnet into the server, log in as their character, and parade around the text world slaying creatures you could only read descriptions of and occassionally stopping to figure out a particularly difficult puzzle or maze. If this were a single-player game, ala Zork, I would have quickly become bored with it. But there were dozens of other people playing, and soon it became a competition. The creatures in the game were things to fight between the quests that pitted you against the other players. I began playing more and more, to the point it was severely affecting my life.
I'd like to say I'm not blaming the mud for those problems. I was having many other problems, and just couldn't handle the pressure. Something had to give; the mud was just an avenue of escapism. If not the mud, I would have ran elsewhere. To that end, I don't think the mud was (nor Everquest is) addictive. Rather, I needed a release, somewhere I could run from my problems. Sadly, many people were doing this on the mud, as I'm certain many of EQ's clientele are all trying to find some form of escape.
This creates a very unhealthy environment, as you can imagine. People who know they probably should go out and get some fresh air, maybe see their flesh-and-blood friends, instead decide, "Oh, I'll just play this a little longer..." The next thing they know it's three in the morning, and they are on their last Mountain Dew. The people online who convinced them to stay are probably in the same boat, and the behavior just worsens.
EQ is not inherrently evil. It is, though, an attractive scene for people with, oftentimes social, issues, which can frequently become an unhealthy environment. There are countless real-life places, including (but hardly limited to) casinos. Millions of people gamble every year and have no problem walking away after a weekend, but many people just can't stop. It's more a reflection on society that people have problems with a setting such as Everquest, rather than a damnation of the game itself.
I have played everquest in the past. Let me start off by saying this: it almost seems like the people who created this game looked at what factors get humans addicted to things, and put them in the game on purpose.
I for a while had 3 accounts, and multiple computers to play characters simultaneously. I spent a great deal of time on the game, but kept it in check somewhat compared to other cases I have heard about (one thread on my server's messageboard had longest time played at once, and some people had responses about playing 72 hours or more in one sitting - all in a row!).
Basically, for those that say "get a life" or "just quit" fail to see why people play - it's all based on habit. You can say the same thing to a cigarette smoker - "just quit" - for some, they can just quit, easily. Others, it's very hard and they ultimately cannot quit. Generally, the people I have seen get most addicted to everquest were the type of people who like to be the best at something - to "win" almost all the time against other people in whatever game they chose to specialize in.
I have somewhat of that type of personality. When I get into a particular game, I almost play that game to the exclusion of all others. Example being Tekken Tag - for a while I was big into Tekken Tag, playing it every day trying to figure out long strings of combos, and then would take my skills to the arcades where the better tekken tag players would hang out and try my skills against them (I would practice at a corner store near my house).
Even after the point where I could beat the computer opponent in one credit (2 quarters) without losing, using every different character, I would still get beat by the kids at the mall who played it even more than me. This mentality to be "elite" is precisely what Evercrack prays upon.
The odd thing is, the people I have met who were addicted to Everquest were in general very smart. One person in my family played it after I introduced him to it (big mistake) obsessively to the point of almost ruining his life. And yes people have died over it already. Is it the games fault? Yes and no. Yes in that they designed it specifically to take advantage of those with obsessive personalities - No in that a person can quit and is not physically addicted to it any time they want.
Some people I know have played it and said "what's the big deal" etc and stopped playing. Others I know are still playing it, and got addicted to it. I have known people that quit smoking after smoking for years, yet cannot put down Everquest. Yes, it is more mentally addictive than cigarettes for a certain type of personality.
There are certain things in the game which become excessively frustrating, such as the "timesinks" mentioned above. An example is something they called "jboots" back in the day. There was an item which would drop off of a "rare spawn" that only popped up every 8 hours or so in real-time. You you would think it would be easy to get, but there was some randomness involved as well, so it could be 8 hours some days, and 24 hours other days (off of something called "an ancient cyclops").
Camping this item is what made me quit. After sitting in the same spot for 8 hours (realtime) this thing popped up, and guess what - one of the 5 other players in the area got it. I got so mad I wanted to punch my monitor and realized this game made me more angry than any other game I played before in my life - and to involve me this way, so intensely, that I must quit and be rid of it because I saw the path the high level game was going down.
I only had a one 50+ character, and about 4 40+ level characters, but I witnessed first hand the potential addictiveness of the game and stopped myself before I got too into it. What makes me very angry is that they put things in the game that they knew would cause arguments amongst players, and they knew ahead of time it would cause addiction - but they put it in anyways - simply to make a profit.
Call me a "fool" or "whiner" if you want - but I got out before I got heavily addicted, right at the threshold of when the game stopped being fun, and became more like a job. I played the game up until a few months after the luclin expansion, starting from a few months after it came out, and was able to quit cold turkey because I realized it was a big waste of my time.
You must understand however that people's addictions should not lightly be tread upon. You don't joke around with someone who was a heroin addict about starting up again. You don't keep offering a cigarette to someone who has quit - because these people had to struggle to stop doing the addictive activity. It's basically that some human minds work differently than others, and IMHO it's very immoral to prey upon the weaknesses of the human psyche.
I've seen this phenomena before, and everyone has probably been exposed to it whether they understood it or not.
:)
After putting enough time into something that turns out to be unsatisfying, sometimes your mind becomes it's own worst enemy. You don't want to stop, because doing that would be an admission that you've been wasting countless money and time for far too long. Facing that fact is often difficult for people to deal with, and so they will rationalize a reason for continuing their unsatisfying behavior, and display hostility to others who quit, because quitters disrupt the illusion that the activity still has merit.
Examples:
- Everquest and some other mud-like games.
- A company that continues to use an inferior product simply because they were conned into spending an excessive amount of money on it originally.
- People that linger too long in obviously bad relationships
- Javier, of Les Miserables fame
Iduno. Of course, you are correct: This is not an isolated incident. However, if I'm going to maintain my faith in humankind, I have to believe that they're a vocal, but very small minority.
And in that regard, they do not reflect our current culture, but rather an aspect of human nature. I'm sure that there were similar numbers of people that thought and behaved this way in 1950, 1900, 1850, and 1800.
Call me optimistic by comparison: Sure, our culture may be crappy, but it's never been better!
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
A former roommate of mine got in on the ground floor. One night he cancels all social events, due to some guild event.
Later he walks into the kitchen and starts making dinner. He then consumes dinner, in the living room, watching TV. It occurs to me that he cancelled all social events, including an evening with his girlfriend. "Oh, did the meet get cancelled or postponed?"
"No, we're fighting right now. I just put it on autoattack. It'll take another 20 minutes or so to win, so I'll check on it later."
Um, OK.
I remember when some class finally got the power it was promised when the game was released; but it cost too much and didn't work right, anyway. Roommate was trying to show me how cool it was, but it made litle sense and was anticlimactic (you did something like 10 extra points of damage every how and then).
I remember trains, and chatty people, and all that. I remember my roommate developing a whole new vocabulary - bubs and zoning and whatever else. I remember patches with reputations worse than NT service packs, and useless tech support, and dropped connections, and lost characters due to server-side upgrades, and more.
This was all before the first expansion pack!
I say, yes, the game sucks you in with a feedback loop you can't escape from (I think it's called a Skinner Box?). I knew all this before the first expansion came out. While I agree with the entire screed (from an observer POV, anyway) I can't understand how it took you that long to realize all this. Most people jumped off a while ago, and the rest are getting exactly what they deserve.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
I don't know if this has been said, but Sony did the exact same to Infantry. Infantry used to be a free massively multiplayer overtop shooter game, it had a nice community, the players were pretty happy because the Developers did things. Then Sony bought them. Then it went downhill. Then a year later they started charging 10 dollars a month for a 2d game. Everyone refused to play it, except about 100 people, which is small in comparison to the 5000 it had. Sony needs to learn to respect the players of their games, me thinks. Sony does indeed suck.
Just quit. I mean if you have all these complaints, and are still shelling out the $12/month, then YOU are the stupid one. Not Sony.
BC
Seriously though, I've seen people talk about "Evercrack" for years now. Is it just running around and click-killing things? Does it play more like a half-life mod or quake or Myst? Do you need a fast internet connection in order to prevent being insta-killed by the twitchers?
Is there anything to do besides killing things? Like, are there areas where you can interact socially with other game people, chat and have fun? Things to do to have fun with other people besides chat and kill?
If you actually enjoy roleplaying and want to have fun... you're better off looking at this world
00101010
This is the game that never ends,
It just goes on and on, my friend;
Somebody started playing it, not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue playing it forever just because,
This is the game that never ends,
It just goes on and on, my friend;
Somebody started playing it, not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue playing it forever just because,
This is the game that never ends,
(repeat ad infinitum)
Excuse me, I have to go play... er... do something.. er.. non-..computer related.
And enjoyed playing it for over 3.5 years now. I think the clue is there. As games go, it's ancient and certainly not where Sony is putting it's focus in terms of gaming --- I am willing to wager that Sony's new PC and PS2 titles are making them significantly more money than EQ is. Think about it: given finite resources, how would you assign them? To the cash cows? Or a sack of bones with teets that drag across the floor because they've been milked too hard?
If you or anyone you know ever gets this bitchy about a goddamn video game, you're playing too much. Period.
No, don't try to argue. Turn off your PC for a day. A week. A month. Go do something else. Come back and realize how fucking pathetic this sounds.
Trolls make great pets. Adopt one today!
I play. I play on your server. I also play in moderation. And it's fun.
When you take it too seriously, you get pissed, like you are now.
How you achieved your own story on Slashdot is beyond me.
"Thoughts are more powerful than any weapon, and I don't even let my people own guns." --Joseph Stalin
at the high end you are required to spend multiple hours (sometimes up to twelve hours) with a "raid force" of 60 or more people just killing useless, annoying mobs (which drop little or no loot) put there as obstacles.
No, you're not "required" to do anything.
It has it's ups and downs, but it's just a game and it's a heck of a lot of fun. All those gripes...a person is taking something WAY too seriously when they have all those gripes about a game, but then continues to pay monthly for their displeasure.
That sort of rant about Everquest isn't new. Usually they're from people who are having a hard time dealing with real life, and they can't even deal with their fantasy life to their satisfaction. Verant didn't design a faulty game, and Sony provides great customer service considering what you pay. At $13 a month, what do you expect? A personal programmer assigned just to you to fix anything and everything that you could possibly have a problem with? Come on now...you report a problem, then they get you out of their face so they can deal with their workload and when a fix is made, it goes into a patch and your problem is solved. If you expect more, you're living in la-la land.
All-in-all, Everquest is a great game, and all the emotional rantings about it are 100% subjective. Your milage will vary. If you like PC first-person games and the fantasy genre appeals to you, you will probably love Everquest.
In the last 4 years I have bit my lip many times to say these 3 words.....This story pushes me over the edge:
/. "news for nerds", but I always felt proud holding the nerd flag without a D&D insignia on said flag....And I feel the same way about EQ.
GET A LIFE!
You know who I feel sorry for....That is the poor tweeb in customer support that has to deal with these (forgot about reality) wackos. I know this is
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
And regarding the movie-at-the-theatre comment:
Went out as a group with my friends and saw The Two Towers. Even stopped by a decent coffee shop (i.e. not Starbucks) afterwards. About $15, total.
Everquest Gold (retail + all four expansions in a bundle) is $70. Three months of the game is $30. Are you so sure? Even if you went really cheap and just bought the basic original retail for $9 and one month, that's still more than a movie and discussing geek shit over two mochas after.
I daresay that watching Ents dam the river Isen is far more fulfilling for the average geek than buying an old game and a month of play -- enough for a non-ub3r player without a guide to the areas to get to 15-20 or so.
I've played EverQuest for over 3 years. Rants (which is what this is, it's not "news", it's barely even "buyer beware", it's a textbook EQ rant) pop up all the time in the EverQuest community. It goes something like this:
1) PlayerX logs in for some fun.
2) Something negative happens. Either a confrontation with another player, a monster or camp is stolen, someone else beats PlayerX and/or his guild to the punch, etc.
3) PlayerX, having nobody tangible to blame for his frustration, turns on Sony because, clearly, they designed the game to inconvenience the players.
He could publicly blame players for their actions, instead of deflecting blame to Sony, on the many messageboards that are dedicated to the individual game servers (example, example). But, just like the captain of the chess club blaming the captain of the football team for bullying him, it would likely do more harm to his virtual reputation than it would help. So he lashes out at the one target who likely won't lash back.
Some of his points are relevant. If you can chop out the vitriol and get to the meat of it, you might find some comments which make sense - but these are all side effects of the very nature of MMOPRG's. Massively (large) Multiplayer (you interact with lots of people, and you won't like every one of them), Online (the internet is NOT a friendly place), Role-Playing Game (people are not who they say they are).
I don't consider the last 3 years of my time spent in EverQuest to be "wasted years." I feel sorry for people who say things like that, like the comment I read earlier where someone said they'd go to their grave wishing they hadn't have squandered 2 years of their life playing the game; that's unfortunate. I've met a lot of interesting people. I've banded together with fellow adventurers who are real people, who work 9-5 or go to classes like everyone else. Yes, I've met people I'd love to be able to rain fire down upon in real life like I can in the game, but frustration is hardly unique to EverQuest or video games in general.
If you play these types of games expecting to find a utopian society: dream on. If you play them for the fantasy aspect, where you're granted the ability to team up with like-minded adventurers to slay dragons and giants akin to the ones Tolkien wrote about, then go for it. But don't come whining to Slashdot when someone kicks sand in your face - just deal with it or move on.
Ryan, aka. Sambus
64 Mage, Mithaniel Marr Server
I think this guy has valid points. They negatives of the game have to be known to 'know' if it's right for you to play. I was encouraged to join to play with a couple buddies because they wanted to spend more time playing instead of going out and having fun. I told them I would play as long as we played together as a team and enjoyed playing the characters together.
Sure enough, three weeks down the road I found out they were playing two to three times more than I was... and they were 'twinking' (that's giving a low end character items from a high end character) their characters. I had been given a few items to help my character grow. The big problem was I only had so many hours to spend in the game world. They had double that and more. They we so into this game that they pushed the characters farther and faster than I could mine so I was eventually left behind. When I asked them why they did this, they said they were getting bored. Hmm.. so unless you have the time to play at the level of 6 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week, this game becomes very hard to play.
Some may say that this is out of line, I think not. It is hard for a light player to get together with other players to help move you character at a reasonable pace. I do know of a guy who plays a lot by himself.. but it's slow.. painfully slow.
Build friendship and groups takes time and unless you have it, don't bother.. you'll be frustrated.
On a customer service note, yes, Sony's service sucks. They give their volunteers loose rules and the power to screw things up as much as they fix.
My personal grief came when I was making a monk character.. someone who works with their body to fight, not necessarily weapons. One of the 'volunteers' told me online that I had to change my characters' name... I had choosen 'Handsolo' because a monk is a typical single-type player who uses his hands. Well.. apparently Sony didn't like me infringing on Star Wars properties.. I.E. Han Solo. So.. while I had just died and had spent a half hour travelling back to my body to retrieve my items, the guy wanted to enforce their will. He changed my character's name... before I got my items off the 'corpse'. Well.. when he did that.. I lost the ability to get the items. A 3 day e-mail exchange endured with representatives saying they were not responsible for 'lost' items, etc. This despite the fact one of their representatives caused the problem in the first place. Eventually after 3 days I was begging them to get the items for me because I had borrowed some from my friend and my brother. Finally a GM managed to get them back. This definitely soured me more to the game.
While no game is perfect, a 'sale' is won or lost on customer service. You piss off enough folks, and your product becomes less profitable. The folks who support your product become less friendly and you cut back. This is the problem Sony now faces. A poorly designed product which requires x amount of dollars to support to maintain it's profitability. If they don't maintain it, there will be hell to pay because people will really get pissed off.
Their solution was to put out another product.. next generation... Star Wars Galaxies I believe it is called. It's behind the times and I think it's either been released or will be soon.
They planned to 'fix' the problems with the EverQuest model with this new game. A lot less abuse, etc.
It'll never happen. Human beings are curious and desire a challenge though. It'll be less successful because there are other competing online games which have learned from Sony's mistakes... but running any online game is hard. If the folks playing are having fun, then it'll survive.
My 2 cents.
(1st sig) If this were a snappy sig, you'd be reading it right now. (2nd sig) I'm a karma whore. >Insert FUD here
Ever try the homepage???
http://everquest.station.sony.com/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
After some teenage asswipe GM changed my name from "Traingiver" to "Traiver"(if you've played the game, you know about trains), I said screw it and cancelled my account.
It's just a game and if they can't have fun with it then what's the point of playing.
They'll notice if you transfer more than $15,000 (or gold coins, astro credits, zenny coins etc...) from one user to another and audit it, just like the federal gov't. "Are you sure you didn't arrange this transfer via ebay?!!"
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
I'll believe it when I see it.. The StarWars Galaxy is one of the most God awful beta's that I've been in to this date. I dont see how you can beta test the damn game with the servers constantly down. There are messages where they say servers up for the day testing, only to be up for 15 minutes if you're lucky.. Holidays come and go, and you'd think the servers would be up for testing, but Nooooo.. bah... ginsu ....
Never has the term 'Get A Life' been more appropriate than in this instance. I would love to know how old this guy is and what brand of underwear he prefers his mom buy for him.
Channel your energies into something important, like ending world hunger, or cancer, or just volunteering at the local teen center for crying out loud!!!
Keep passing the open windows...
There's actually some evidance of chocolate being (mildly) physically addictive.
I think that rather than telling someone to 'stop' it would be more aproptiate to tell them to either fix themselves or shut the hell up. I've just got no sympathy for people with psychological addictions whining about how hard their life is. Oh, everyone's a victim, no one's responsible for their actions.... I know, why don't they sue Sony for their EQ addiction. [runs out to the store to buy a pack of Marlboros, a Happy Meal, and EverQuest]
The whole time I was reading this article, I kept thinking Open Source, Open Source. I checked out source forge, and theres a couple of fairly well developed projects, but nothing up to the level of Everquest. I think it would be cool if a developer made an open source, highly moddable and most importantly, responsive and fun mmorpg, preferably set in a fallout type world. 90% of the time the reason i stop playing a game isnt because i've beaten it or because I'm bored, its because part of the interface has gotten too frustrating for me to deal with. With open source, those kinds of things could be dealt with. My basic vision is for a server architecture that is simply a framework for hosting many different universes simultaneously, all open source. mmorpg's dont need thousands of simultaneous players, they need about a thousand. i'm not looking for a huge daunting experience with tons of people, i'm looking for something fun, more like a pickup game than a job. thats the problem with everquest, its a job, not a game. games have gotten so advanced and in depth that most of them arent even fun, theyre frustrating, addicting, and tedious. well, thats my rant. peace
Pr0nQuest is a game centered on rewarding you for how much spunk you put into it. This is the core design philosophy behind the game, since they charge you by the month and make more money the longer you drool at the screen. What they don't tell you is that taking your money is about all they're interested in. They care little for player complaints ("No, not Grandma again!"), and less about player suggestions and requests (More cheerleaders, less NYC hookers.) They're in this to milk you for all you're worth, and that's the first thing you have to know.
...
...
The second thing you have to know is that the pr0n stops being fun. By that time though, you're so "addicted" to the pr0n, you don't realize it. The pr0n becomes a source of frustration and release instead of a source of entertainment and fun. It becomes a whacking chore. It becomes a hand job. You pull away at the joystick, obsessed and consumed with getting that new DIVX rip, or finding that last photo series, and while so consumed you begin to hate the pr0n. Vehemently. It's a desire that goes on forever, and one that you can never get to the ultimate climax.
These situations are 'lovingly' referred to by the ooglers as dicksinks; pr0ntease traps intended to waste your spunk and keep you whacking longer. There are hundreds of them; others incredibly hotter than simply getting to a orgy. Several series required to complete your collection require you to spend 100+ hours sitting in single chairs, killing hundreds of sperm in 12-hour stretches for a "rare drop", such as a nipple shot of Britney Spears; or the latest Pamela video; with which to excite the little boss. Unlike the other parts of the pr0n, these dicksinks are required for excitement, and there is no getting around them unless you wish to stop playing with yourself. This is of course not fun at all, but as said above, by this time you'll have long stopped having fun with pr0n. You'll do it anyway though, as thousands of others have, because you, like them, are addicted. The quest to find the cherry popping video of Natalie Portman is one of the most vicious dicksinks in the entire world, but it is merely one example among dozens. To even reach this area of the game requires months of non-stop whacking with your "sword"; sometimes up to a year of panting heavily. Only then will you be powerful enough to enter her.
Perhaps now you've begun to see the other side of pr0n: The buggier side, the darker side; the side of despair and guilt, fear and sticky carpet. The pr0n will absorb your life if you let it, while the days and weeks melt away into oblivion. I have barely touched on the repetitive teasing you must endure to reach the top levels of the pr0n: downloading pic after pic, hundreds upon hundreds in an endless non-exciting stream to gain a collection. I have not said anything about dickdeath (losing your erection) from brain network problems, or hard drive crashes where you lose any pictures or videos recently attained (and for which you are not compensated by email spam). I have not said anything about the PlayBoy(TM) subscriptions, where you get to pay $40/month to get the pictures that you should be receiving anyway. There are many other problems with this pr0n that I did not go into here. Before you get into pr0n, realize what you're jumping into. Look before you whack.
Blog,Twitter
You're not upset that your addicted to the game. You're upset that your addiction doesn't give you the same pleasure as it once did. You know there's a reason people OD on heroine. It takes a little more to reach the same high each successive time you use it. You've just built up this massive tolerance for EQ. Now everything about EQ annoys you and you just can't get the pleasure you need from it. In a word, you are a "junkie".
You have two choices as a junkie:
1. You can give up on reality and spend every waking moment "winning" EQ until you get the high you need.
2. You can quit EQ cold turkey.
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
what an insulting pile this little article is. there are *actual* addictions out there that have physcial, chemical attributes that are real, calling a game an addiction is just fucking stupid. i know, let's call anyone who tries to control others a nazi! that won't dilute it at all!
he says he is writing to those who are considering buying the game, yet talks about nothing but the high level game. i myself have played for about 3 years, and yes most of what he says is true. some of it is just retarded, like:
The bottom line being, you can go to bed one night with a great character and items, and wake up in the morning to find all that has changed; leaving you holding your member and your opinions mattering less than a pig's squeals in a slaughterhouse.
this shit doesn't happen. sometimes they make items that are far too powerful and it has to be changed for the health of the game. anyone with any comprehension of game design knows this. yeah monks got nerfed, but they needed to be.. sony didn't do it right, but they're trying and no one's perfect. yeah i have my complaints but i don't hate them. it's impossible to develop a game that will please 300k+ subscribers, welcome to reality. and that shit about greifers is just bullshit. sony doesn't do shit to police the game, true, but people can't hide from their reputations, and the community polices itself.
but really, it takes *years* of playing to even encounter all these horrible problems, most people take over a year to reach a high level. and no one says you have to. when was the last time you played a game that was enjoyable that long? i spent many months playing quake, etc, but eq is even more compelling. i have a job, i go to school, i have a girlfriend. it's a fucking game, and it's fun.
people claim to be 'addicted' to fast food, porn, sex, driving, video games, the internet, blah blah. calling a game an addiction is an insult to anyone who's ever felt real withdrawl.
eq is fun because it's a big world to explore, and you can develop your virtual toon. that and the massive community of folks to meet and hang out with. i've got a number of real friends that i met online whose friendship is worth more than the game itself.
"hard work often pays off over time, but laziness always pays off now."
Maybe it will give you a window into how they feel about what he said, and if they agree or not.
Here's the thread on that server's forum.
"Thoughts are more powerful than any weapon, and I don't even let my people own guns." --Joseph Stalin
addictive ... a source of frustration and anger... ... kinda like reading slashdot.
I keep wondering this myself. Granted, the only games I've written are really crappy, certainly not worth paying for. But I can't help to think, that with even just a few hundred subscribers I could afford to support myself with the game, and colo a suitable server.
What do you really want out of a game though? Personally, I think most want to be a "hero"... but that will always be impossible with something like Everquest. As I see it, I'm thinking I would take applications to play, and try to weed out the idiots and shitheads. Also, you don't "create" a character, you'd get to choose from a lineup... many of which were in existence as NPCs. (Of course, I would try to make sure there are at least 2 or 3 that are particularly appealing). You'd get a short, personally written bio of your character, enough background to play it well. I'd try to get an idea when you'd be playing, and match it up to the liefstyles/location of your character candidates. Maybe you can only play during the EST evening, which is midday in the game world, so you have many to choose from. But EST morning players would have characters primarily awake during the night. Too artificial?
Instead of making it a competition to get items/scores, you'd be presented with all sorts of situations... imagine being the newly hired town guardsmen, and stumbling upon 2 of your coworkers murdering the shopkeeper. Do you try to do something about, try to stay hidden (you could be next), or try to get in on it (maybe they'll split the protection money 3 ways). If you report it, how do you know the guard captain isn't in on it?
People playing out of character would be warned once, and then booted... my opinion, is that many of these situations would evolve on their own, just by playing in character. The rest would be induced by GMs.
How many people, and how much would they pay, for something like that?
Well... DUH... Did you see the name on the box?
Ñ'
Hey. It's like life. You make your own plot.
I find that many people who start EQ get lost quickly because they are so used to playing games that have a preset plot. In EQ, you start your character and off you go into the world. Just like real life, you have to talk to people (players or NPCs) to learn about the world. Quests are always started by talking to an NPC.
Each class has several ways they can be played, each with its own up and down sides. It's up to you how to you ant to play.
Running with that line of thinking the girl that I thought I 'loved' (addicted; whatever) will never have her ass kicked to the curb when I start not 'loving' her.
See when you put it in that context of something less 'silly' you have a perfect concept; just do what needs to be done.
g
It was only a joke. If you played online games you would get it.
MMORPG....significant point-RPG. Read the DMG for D&D sometime....it (and most other paper RPG's) state that a)its a game and b) just like in real life there is NO END, only a point in which you stop participating (kinda like death). EverCrack is true to the RPG ideal in that you CANNOT WIN EVERYTHING!! There is no end because life goes on with or without you. The point of the game is to have fun and adventure. If its not fun anymore then DON'T PLAY ANYMORE! I do see legitimate gripes in this article and from people here, but it does no good to simply bitch and continue playing. If they really are doing these things and this stuff is logged, think about getting together and filing a class-action against Sony. Or just move to a different game! I know if I don't like GM, i go to another, and if I don't like a system i can't modify to my saatisfaction, I STOP PLAYING THAT SYSTEM! (system=game) I never played EQ for the simple fact i thought the graphics blew, i tried Ultima Online too, and their graphics sucked and the game didn't get you involved quickly enough or give enough direction to be useful (Final fantasy may be scripted, but graphics rock and i can find guides for the quests) Anyways, final thought, Sony is giving lip service to what everyone used to call a great game. I say screw 'em. And if you don't like a game, move to the next.
hehe, that's why I only play no-brainer FPS these days (UrT, CS, DoD). They may be a little bit addictive, but it is so much easier to just turn the shit off and go do something else... with RPGs you just get sucked more and more into the gameplay to the point you cannot leave until you complete some shit, that leads to another, and you lose too much of your fscking time there. Games (for me these days) are just about braindead fun, like sniping nazis on some street, being hit with a shovel on the head, dying, and coming back to the game with the same gear some seconds after... much less stress this way, and still tons of fun.
;-)
(and before someone mentions, yeah , I am a dirty camper
cheers
``If a program can't rewrite its own code, what good is it?'' - Mel
And somehow chess is more interesting than checkers. The thing that makes chess interesting is what it requires of the player. That is also true of any other interesting game or sport. So what is it about Everquest that actually makes it interesting? My (limited) experience with the game seems to be that it requires nothing of the player but sufficent free time.
he forgot the /rant on the end of that 'article'
However, the author makes soem very good points. I had a pretty bad customer service experience that made me quit the game.
My January bill (jan 2001 i think.) was run twice. I had two deductions from sony out of my checking account. No big deal, 12.95 isn't going to drive me into chapter 11, but I still wanted my money. I call support and offer up the usual information, then the support guy starts getting ansy. He wants to know the cardholder information again.
I had purchased my copy of the game from a co-worker. he played the game a week, decided it sucked, and offered me his copy for ten bucks. What the hell, I bought it, fell in love with the game, and played for well over a year. But I wasn't the person who originally activated the account. I dumped all the original characters, and started anew.
A few months into my gaming experience i noticed that Sony had taken a major stance against selling characters and accounts. BFD, i wasn't planning on selling my level 20 cleric anytime soon.
But back to the support call. Once The tech finds out that I didn't buy the game from a sony authorized retailer, all support stopped. I didn't have an in game issue, I had a billing issue. Nothing. No help at all. Once he found out that I wasn't the original cardholder, he gave me the polite support equivilent of a "gofuckyerself." I'd had an extra 13 bucks taken from my account and there was nothing that I could do, or that they were going to do, to fix the problem. I'd played for well over a year, bought an expansion. But to them that and a buck would get me a cup of coffee.
Now, here's the amazing part. This is what'll get this modded up to 'interesting' or dare I say even 'insightful.' I CANCELED MY ACCOUNT! Yes, that's right. I had a bad customer service experience, and thus I took my money elsewhere. Suport was unresponsive, So I quit contributing to their salaries.
That's what really gets my goat about peopple who incessantly rant about how awful $GAME_OF_CHOICE is. They spend time ranting, raving, and bitching about how bad $ASPECT is, but they keep sending their fucking money. Don't like the econmics of the company? quit! think Necro's have an unfair advantage in melee? quit!
Granted, I've just spent a good deal of time ranting about a bad experience / aspect, but i actually did something about it. The author goes on and on about quitters being ridiculed by guildmates, sony being crack dealers, etc. Give me a goddamned 'Henry Rollins delux edition' clue by four so I experience the joy of getting addicted to clocking the author in the skull. Addicts my ass. Spend some time around a drug rehab center, then try calling a hardcore EQ player an addict.
Ridiculed by guildmates? If i was really worried about be made fun of by people I'll never see / meet / give more than passing serious thought to, then i wouldn't be posting to slashdot. The author of that 'article' is the EQ equivilent of a karma whore.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
EverQuest retail, like you said, is $9. Your first month is free. The original EverQuest is all you need to get started, and really it's all you will be able to do till you gain a few levels. By then you'll know if you enjoy the game enough to buy some expansions for it. If you don't, you are still out less money than the movies and the geek talk :)
:)
Not that you can't do both, I am just saying that for $9, if you are into RPGs at all it's worth a shot and you might just find you have stumbled on the cheapest form of entertainment known to man
All I want for christmas is... ....an angry mob!
If EQ was designed from the get go to be a Skinner box and addict you - that was grotesquely immoral. It really was.
I think we'll see the day when games like that are illegal.
Remember when there was Coke in Coke?
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
The bad things about the game all basically boiled down to the fact that you're playing with a bunch of immature teenagers...
People get this bizarre concept of "honour" about what constitutes acceptable tactics. I say the levels and weapons are the way they are, and they should be used to their fullest. However, when I use a certain tactic (such as piston-camping or the redeemer-toss on Facing Worlds) I'd invariably be called names and accused of cheating. Rather than try to outsmart me with counter-tactics, these weenies would rather complain about how unfair I'm being. (Never mind that they could use the exact same tactics against me.) I presume these same people would accuse me of "bishop camping" if I beat them in chess. In contrast, our clan had counter-tactics at the ready, and we used them. To me, that's the fun of the game. If you fall for a trick like piston-camping more than once or twice in a game, you're an idiot, and deserve to lose.
Playing in a clan, even a clutz like me gets pretty good at the game. Afterward, when I joined a random server to play a game or two, I'd often get accused of cheating, simply because I won a few melees or captured a few flags, and sometimes I'd even get kicked off the server, even without using "cheating" tactics (see above).
The politics of the clan became a bit much for me after a while, and I turned the reins over to a friend of mine a little while before half the clan left to start their own clan. Invariably, all the problems came from the teenagers. By the end, most games were played by three old-timers (averaging 28 years old or so) and one particluarly mature and talented teenager. At that point, my personal fun level increased dramatically, since we were all there just to have fun competing, not to boost our egos in a make-believe military organization.
But all these things are relatively minor, especially compared with the woes that some EQ players apparently experience.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Start Menu -> Setting -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs
Any change in any part of the game has a signifigant chance of effecting multiple other parts of the game that no-one could predict. Players beat challenges with a speed that is awe-inspireing and demand more. Infact, the players do nothing but demand. ANY imbalance in the 15 classes causes thousands of complains. People get mad about the time that servers are patched, things spawning to fast and too slow. Things being too easy and too tough. Items entering the too fast or too slow. Players will use any method to win they can find whether legitimate or blatently exploitive. And then get mad when exploitive methods are removed.
SoE (Sony online Entertainment) is trying to satisfy hundreds of thousands of people of different levels, different classes, different races, different play times, different lengths of play and different goals, and at the same time trying to keep the game sustainable for the future. You can satisfy all the people some of the time, or some of the people all the time, but never all the people all the time. And those unsatisfied will be as loud about it as they possibly can.
I'm not trying to justify how SoE runs the game. I disagree with a lot that they do. They are by no means saints. But they DO face a daunting task.
I do security
Like all game experiences it's subjective. I have been playing EQ for (counts on fingers) 3 years and a month now and I still love it. Watching over your friend's shoulder as they went from 30-60 I can understand why you wouldn't see anything new. But I bet when your friend dinged 60 (got level 60 for you non-players) (s)he was ecstatic. It would be the same way if you were playing a MUD and a friend was watching.
"It's lines of text scrolling by really fast. How is that cool?"
"But 100 of us just ultra-killed the lich demon lord in two minutes!!!"
"Where? I see text..."
The guild I am in raids three nights a week and once in a while we do spend time twiddling our thumbs. Usually when a dragon is sitting on our corpses and just hoping we come back for more. Times like that are boring, but I read a book until we can get moving again and if I get too bored I can always just log off.
I still find EQ to be a ton of fun, even if I am sitting there practicing a tradeskill. It's a great sense of accomplishment to get that next level, or item, or skill.
Problem with twinks is that they are willing to pay money for someone else's account who has spent the time get the 1337 character. Mature accounts go for big bucks.
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
Read this story and see just how bad the addiction to EQ can get.
Michael Loves Me!
I played EQ for a day when it first came out, but returned it after getting very frustrated with it. Glad I found free player-run Ultima Online servers instead of wasting my time with Sony BS. The right ones have a loyal group of players and admins who really care about the players. For a list of emulated UO shards, check out Top 200 My favorite has been The World of Dreams, currently #34. World of Dreams
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
didn't this already happen in the peak of the D&D days?
The truth doesn't care what I think.
Just because you don't find the idea of other players conspiring to keep you and your guild down fun doesn't mean they don't see it as fun. Do you have any idea how entertaining it is to train a bunch of mobs into another guild and watch the carnage? Aside from the satisfaction you get from all the work involved in doing it, you can then go in and mop up the remains of the mobs and hover the spoils. Incidentally, all your nancy boy whining about it makes it *that* much more satisfying to me. If you can't cope, then I'm sure you can find the door, crybaby.
After all, it *is* called EVERquest...
The thing that makes a good EverQuest player is the same thing that makes a good chess player, or football player, or Quake player. Skill. It's hard to see from the outside, and because it's a computer game people trivilize it but if you play the game for a while it quickly becomes apparent that two level 23 warriors are not always equal :)
One of the most important parts of EverQuest is grouping. You find 5 people to group up with you go adventuring, usually to gain experience. Do this for a while and it becomes readily apparent that Monk 1 can't pull for shit but Monk 2 can get a single mob out of 10. This enchanter lets the entire group die from 3 mobs while this other enchanter can manage 6 mobs in the camp and still keep everyone's buffs fresh. This warrior has aggro the second the mob is in the camp but that one lets the mob run around beating on the casters.
Now, of course if you have never played EQ or something similar you don't know what I am talking about, but that is the point. It's like saying to someone who has never played chess; "I captured his queen in the second move! HAaaaaahahahhahahahahhaa" and the blank stare that comes with it. "Isn't the queen just another piece?"
Or try another game, like Dark Age of Camelot. EQ runs on the mistaken impression that more time played is better. It is possible to make a game where you can have fun in half an hour or an hour here or there. Even the biggest raids in DAOC can be done in an hour and a half with good organisation, and you can get some decent Realm vs Realm fighting action in as little as 15 minutes...while EQ can take an hour just to get into combat for 50+ level character. Dying in RvR costs you nothing but 5 minutes of res sickness; there's no long corpse recoveries. Even for XP deaths, you can just accept the XP hit and forget about your tombstone. The philosophy of EQ is exploitive; at some point, they forgot that these people were customers. Their slogan says it all: "You're in our world now!" Personally, I've got too many other things I want to do to be tied to a large raid for hours at a time. A game should bend to my schedule, not the other way around. Mythic still hasn't forgotten that they're working for their players.
This article is all about "addiction". Like there is a chemical dependency or something!
Nicotine is the most addictive substance on the planet, yet the physical addiction is gone after 3 days of not smoking. It's all mental after that.
Mental addiction is far stronger than physical addiction.
Expect the exact same customer support model in StarWars Galaxies - this time around it will be even more "efficient" hehe
Gambling is a good example of another phonominon that can be addictive without needing a chemical as a "hook."
> If the game isn't fun and sucks this badly, why
;)
> would anyone play it? Well, because they are
> addicted. They are addicted to the mobs, to the
> loot, and to the social atmosphere with other
> people in their guilds.
Just because this ONE GUY doesn't like the game anymore and has noticed he's only playing because he's addicted does NOT by implication include the rest of the playerbase.
For some, the teamwork, that "social atmosphere" he so briefly mentioned is enough to make the game "fun". Yeah don't get me wrong getting loot and riches or whatever aids in the fun, but since there aren't too many avenues in the real world for a person like me to participate in team oriented "adventures" (for lack of a better term), doing it in EQ is good enough.
I log out when the game frustrates me, I log out when I'm bored, and only play when I want to help out friends get stuff done. I'm even a member of a so called "uber" guild, which means 99% of my playtime involves one of the mentioned "timesinks".
I despise Sony (Verant if you prefer) as much as the next guy, but the game itself is still fun because it's one of the few ventures out there for paper pushing desk jocks like me to take part in a team "sport". Suffice to say I don't appreciate this guy herding me into his definition of EQ and the people who play it. He can be mad all he wants, and I hope he deals with his addiction.
Just don't include me in it.
Only if I'm in charge.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
The other day in EQ, a buddy sent me a tell ... "going afk for a few ... gotta take a verant."
anyone who has played EQ and suffered under it's cruel "vision" of what a MMORPG should be will know immediately what the quoted phrase above means.
Is to give the players everything they want. Players are, by and large, whiney greedy bastards. They all say they want an environment where they have complete control and the best stuff, but the second you give that to them is the second they get bored out of their mind.
paintball
I'm suprised no one has brought up the many other games available in the same genre.
/roll if there is a contention. If you (or your group) didn't do like 50%+ damage to it, you can't loot it. Also you don't get loot from grays so no farming the same spot forever.
/appeal and it tells you the wait time and how many appeals in queue and how many CSRs.
:)
One of them is Dark Age of Camelot. While not a perfect game itself its better then EQ in almost every regard. In fact sony hiding server populations and many of the newer features in EQ were pathetic ripoffs and "inspirations" copied from DAOC (much like many DAOC features were copied from EQ, UO, AC, etc). The released information about EQ2 looks more like DAOC rehashed then EQ... That should tell you something.
DAOC servers are broken down into three types. The first is the most numerous, Realm vs Realm. This is where there are three realms, each with their own PvE content, that fight over forts, etc against members of opposite realms. On these servers your "uberguilds" are no where near as obnoxious as on EQ because it takes team work and alliances and overall good relations with your fellow realmmates or else your leadership is going to be laughed off and you are not going to be invited to relic raids and similar.
The second server type is PvP. There are two servers, each where people can kill each other and travel freely between the three realms. I have to admit, it me its a pit of d00dness, but some people seem to really enjoy it.
The third server is Co-Operative (aka "CareBear" aka what most EQ people play). Here PvP is limited to formal duels and you can travel freely among all three realms. With the expansion pack and all three realms open to you there is _a lot_ of high quality content.
For more information you can poke around http://www.camelotherald.com. And while there poke around the server, guild, and character pages and note how pathetic it is to pay Sony $40/month for what Camelot gives to you for $12.95/month.
Some comments on EQ "problems" not present in DAOC:
- Training. Mobs pulled by other people not in your group leave you the hell alone and turn to their spawn points. This prevents _many_ problems that pissed off players, etc in EQ. If you don't touch a train, it doesn't touch you. (Of course in the dungeon Darkness Falls people have AE groups that often screw up and touch passing mobs and there are a few bugs, but its _nowhere_ near EQ)
- Death and corpses. No finding your corpse, no asking for a bind or finding a bind npc (which was added in response to DAOC), no corpse graveyards, no waiting five hours for a GM to help you figure out where the hell your corpse is. You die, you lay there and either wait up to X minutes for someone to rez you, or you release and go back to your bind point with all your gear. You just loose a relatively small amount of exp, a relatively small amount of money (to buy back the CON points you lost), and the time it takes to get back where you were.
- Camping - nowhere near as bad. There are plenty of spots to camp and wait lists are almost nonexistant except for one or two spots server wide (which I don't really understand considering there are many other spots but I guess people love killing the same mob over and over again for 10% more exp then other uncamped spots... *shrug*)
- Loot - loot from creatures killed by a group is randomly distributed between members of the group. Most servers have a code of honor about "need before greed" and most people happily
Also camping for a day plus for loot is pretty rare. Crafting in DAOC is infinitely more viable and with armorcrafting and spellcrafting you can create some very nice suits of armor, etc with magic stats that rival anything you can get from a drop in the old world. (In the new world most of the drops from creatures are randomly generated items... so camping a particular spawn is kinda pointless)
- Quests - needed mobs respawn fast, almost all of them (with the exception of a couple stages of an epic quest) can be done alone. If multiple people have the same quest they can group and when the mob dies they will all get the same item.
- Kill stealing - very rare in comparison, the CSR (Customer Service Reps - aka EQ GM's) _do_ care and actually do crap about it. The game also has some safe guards built in dealing with looting, etc (see above)
- Customer Service - stuck/emergency game stopping appeals usually get a response in 5 to 10 minutes. Other lower priority requests get a response in anywhere from 15 minutes to two hours. My average seems to be an hour. With that said, I have not had a reason to speak to a CSR in over four months. No lost corpses, no quests that didn't work, no kill stealing to complain about. How do I know the wait times?
From speaking to others and you can actually type
- Faster repop rates - The "Uber" mobs pop a lot faster and are usually surrounded by so many pops that its near impossible to claim a spot for a prolonged period of time. I think the slowest repops are the three dragons, which are a tad under a day (but then again, people only tend to raid them once a week anyways).
- Level cap is 50. It wasn't raised by the expansion pack (*cough* kunark *cough*). Post-50 character development is done via realm points earned by killing enemies in RvR (or on the carebear server, killing the high level mobs that attack and take over the frontier forts). It takes _far_ less time to reach
- Content. Yep, EQ wins by shear numbers. But falls flat in comparison to the carebear server and expansion pack when it comes to content available to people who are not in uber guilds or are below level 50.
- Feel. On the RvR servers, the feeling is much friendlier for the most part. Guilds work together. There are arguments, and blow ups, alliances, etc... makes things interesting.
There is a lot more. But this is long enough already.
I played EQ for about 16 months and I've now played DAOC since its release. DAOC has proven to be much more fun, less iritating as a whole, with much more to do. I've rolled so many characters for fun on different servers in the same it took me to level up two EQ characters to a level where I would have had to invested a year or two and whored myself out to some guild to see the "end game".
--- polarbear
<Atari Hug>
While I greatly appreciate his taking the time to write this thing, I'm somewhat amused that he signed it with his in-game moniker. If this is such a vile addiction and he theoretically recognizes it as such ...why is he still playing?
...jeepers. Just stop.
Again, David, if you're reading this, I don't intend this as a flame. I doubt I'd ever start playing but your post pretty much put the nail in the coffin and for that I'd like to thank you for your efforts. But
My
Limekiller
Ultima Online also ceases to be fun, and more of a chore. Just about everyone I work with is obsessed with UO, and despite their inablility to demonstrate just AT WHAT POINT they are having fun, they continue to play it every chance they get. When I say 'play', I use the term loosely, because these people are so obsessed, they let scripts do most of their 'chore' work, like mining ore or chopping wood. I'm sorry but a program that you PAY FOR that requires you to spend hours upon hours smelting ore is total bullshit, and hardly qualifies as a 'game'.
Think about it. In the time these people have wasted their time and money, they could have gotten girlfriends, found a better job, lost a little weight or read a book. Time to get a life people. Maybe there should be a 12 step recovery program called losers anonymous.
I dont have a significant other you insensitive clod! Dont forget to write for your audience!! ;p
I have played EverQuest, up to and including the "end game" as a member of the strongest guild on a server, and I have to disagree with the general slant of Mr. Sanftenberg's comments.
EverQuest is a game, a form of entertainment, and a fun way to fill your spare time if you are into any of the things it provides, from RPG/Action/Adventure gaming to online social interaction to powergaming. You can enjoy playing EverQuest in 1hr sessions or 16hr sessions.
I had a ton of fun playing EverQuest. I started when the first public beta was offered, and I have great memories of exploring the giant landscape with a helpless little avatar that was scared for his life. I interacted with other characters and formed friendships that now exist outside of EverQuest. I played the "end game" and completed the "timesinks" that Mr. Sanftenberg describes so horribly and enjoyed them.
EverQuest is a game and a hobby, and it is easy to get "addicted" to any hobby. I know people that obsessively modify their cars, tweak their computers, work out at the gym, or watch TV. You can spend hours doing anything, and at least EverQuest is cheap. For $12.95 a month you could go to the movies maybe twice, you could pay a fraction of your cable TV bill, or you could buy a new fan for your modded computer case -- or you could play EverQuest. If you figure hardcore gamers are playing 5 to 6 hours a day or more, then that $12.95 a month doesn't seem so bad.
People have issues with class balancing, however if all classes didn't have relative strengths and weaknesses then why even bother having different classes? Who cares if your class only does 80% as effective as another class in some statistical category that you can only really measure by parsing hours and hours of logs - there is some other category your class does better, and in my experience the person playing the class contributes much more to the overall effectiveness than the class itself. The way to not enjoy playing EverQuest is to focus on "min-maxing" your character, not being satisfied until you are the "best". Sure, strive for new accomplishments, set goals for your character, but also enjoy the ride. The "timesinks" referred to in the post usually have some positive component to them. For example the Ssra mines and commanders are great places to earn experience for your character. The 60 man raid force clearing through the trash mobs to fight a boss mob is not a "timesink" but rather what makes the end game of EverQuest fun to play: 60 people working together to accomplish a goal.
I enjoyed my time playing EverQuest. I don't play now because I have very little spare time these days, but I will likely start playing again one day when I do have time.
--Cam aka Slithy Toves of Tholuxe Paells
This author plays a necro so obviously he's going to be pissed. Necro's are the bastard childs of EQ. They are prehaps the most boring, painful and useless class to play, especially when you start leveling into the 60s.
I was under the impression that this would be an actual article about the game, not some addict whining about how Sony and Alan "Absor" VanCouvering have personally wronged him. Suck it up.
Stop whining and quit the game if you hate it so much. Join a support group, and deal with your problem.... it's YOUR problem, not Sony's. May as well be a junkie claiming someone else is lighting up the rock for you.
--- http://foo.ca
I seriously doubt that verant specifically sought to create an addicting game for addictions' sake. Neither did they create anything groundbreaking. Most people that have played the text-based MUDs will tell you that the concepts and gameplay in EverQuest are extremely similar. What's new is the 3D interface (whih .
However, Verant was probably "exploiting psychologicle theory" as much as any other game developer does insofar as they wanted to make it fun and engaging enough for people to keep coming back.
In my opinion, when we cast the blame on the developer, we are infantilizing the consumer. A trend that is becoming all too popular.
People claim that marijuana isn't addictive but I know for a fact that this is not true. I've had friends who use it and if their behavior isn't what you'd call "addicted" then I don't know what is. Maybe what they have is a psychological addiction rather than a chemical addiction, but whatever it is, it's stupid.
is the reasoning that Sony is trying to force you into spending as much time online as possible. Is it just me, or does that not fit in with a flat-rate $12.95/month subscription?
If they were trying to keep you online forever, charging on a per-hour or per-login basis would make them way more money. As it is, it doesn't cost the "addicts" any more to play 70 hours a week than it costs others to play 10. Charging $0.25/hour for connect time is probably a better model.
Mind you, I'm not saying that Sony/EQ doesn't suck in many ways. I've played EQ, gotten involved in the time-sink crap, and since quit. They keep trying to make something special out of the basic "kill monster, collect better stuff, kill more powerful monster" progression, and it just gets boring as hell after a while.
www.progressquest.com I know it changed mine.
Get a life
I mean, really now.
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
Tetris is cool. But I don't play it anymore 'cause I left my Game Boy (one of the originals!) in the sun with a computer disk on it in 40 degree Celsius heat. They melted together. Sorta like sex. Ewww....
- AnonCow
PS: www.happyfunball.com/hfb.html
A couple corrections first. Sony did not develop the MUD game system and EQ is largely a graphical DIKU MUD named Sojourn. There's no conspiracy to addict gamers. Gamers play to compete. They want to level or get the staff of smacking or whatever for primarily social reasons. I think its safe to say EQ wouldn't be such a hit if it was all offline and AI based.
So we're back to the old MUD problem: how to keep people playing for fun without it becoming a big social competition. Restricting hours playable a day is one solution, but I'm sure that would lead into more complaints about being ripped off by Sony.
EverQuest is nothing more than a MUD with graphics slapped on. Hell, some of the socials are ripped straight from Merc. (Possibly DIKU. DIKU came a bit too early for me and I'm too lazy to go digging through the codebase at present. ;))
That said, at least half the customer service complaints you'll hear are nothing more than bullshit. I've never had any problems when I played EverQuest. About the only 'issue' I had was when I lost my corpse inside a mountain because of a bug. It was 3 am on a Saturday morning. I had to log off until around 8 am until a Game Master was on.
Sure, EverQuest is a pay-by-month game. However, Google for the price increase they had about a year ago. People whined like a small child seeing Ballmer dance. They didn't want to pay a measly dollar more a month, yet then they simultaneously complained when they didn't have a personal administrator to hold their hand and instantly respond whenever anything bad might have happened.
As for actual game mechanics, I left because it was boring. Sony's determined to squeeze every last dollar out of the game and it shows. Levelling takes ages, tradeskills take ages.. (6+ hours farming no-experience monsters for components to smith, doing ten combines, and getting no skill increase. Repeatedly.)
The end game is nothing more than a Monty Haul romp, where you attempt to get the 'uberest k-rad gear!' to show off to your friends.
S'why I switched to Dark Age of Camelot. There, at least when you hit the high end game, you can treat it almost like an FPS. Log on every once in awhile and frag some bloody Hibernians. You can't do that with EQ, simply due to the maintainance time you need to spend on your character.
EverCrack, though.. Man, you hit 60, and you did nothing but kill dragons and gods and everything else that should be able to step on you, creating a neat little spot on the ground. All for one or two pieces of gear, which'd sit in storage for six months while guilds would argue over who needs it more.
Not to mention that the graphics, even with Luclin's new engine, are ass ugly. I'm not one to toss a game solely on graphics, but c'mon. EverQuest has nothing that the MUDs of old and present lack, other than graphics. The newer graphical MUDs blow EQ out of the water there. Camelot, for example, has little bits of grass and plants springing up everywhere. Ambient sounds out the arse. Trees that look like trees. It looks better, and is simply more immersive as a result.
I must say, though, EQ is a great experiment in capitalism. You'd think it was written by a group of Ferengi - the only goal of EQ is, 'Acquire! Acquire!'
Basically, if you're one of the loons out there who have played through ancient adventure games three hundred times, just so you can say you've collected every single item in a game, you'll have a great time with EverCrack.
I've played alot of everquest, and it was definatly a fun game. When it wasn't fun any more, I stopped playing it.. It was that simple. I have a few friends who you might consinder "addicted" to the game, but I think the term addidcted is slapped on to easily these days when it comes to gaming. One of the most important and "fun" aspects of everquest is actually not the fancy dancy magic spells or any one of the many quests you can do, its actually conversing with people in a group. The social aspect of everquest is what I think makes the game a lot more fun than just a plain hack and slash game would be. your talking to real people with real problems, its quite similar to MSN/ICQ/AIM out there only you have a common medium to converse about (Everquest itself).
The subject line says it all...
"I drank what?" - Socrates
Verant/Sony are surely not the crack dealers they're being made out to be - otherwise surely they'd be handing out the game and first month's subscription for free..?
I've heard EverQuest mentioned a few times before on slashdot, but I have never seen any description of what the game is like. Is it a FPS like Doom, but with better chat? Is it like Ultima or Populous where you view the "world" from above? Is it like NetTrek with more graphics added? Is it like Age of Empires where you directly control an economy? All of the info about this game seem to be missing the basic info.
Also, where are people getting the game? I've never seen it for sale in a store. I've never seen it for sale on a web site. Is it like a cult thing?
Your comments re: teamwork and community are right on.
WWIIOL is built with the ultimate monsters one can face- other organized humans out to get you. Balrogs have nothing on the Wehrmacht.
The WWII Online forums are very very active, keep people very involved becoming friends with each other, and are instrumental in helping the designers determine what changes they will make.
The EQ article made me sad that so many people are giving so much money to such an unresponsive company.
The squads also promote the teamwork/ buddy aspect of play.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
One solution is just to accept that the game is a bad neighborhood, like Ultima Online. Making that work is tough. The game design has to be bulletproof, not just in a software sense, but in a social and ecological sense. MMORPGs have tanked because the players used up all the resources and turned the place into a wasteland. While this is realistic, it loses customers. UO seems to have something that more or less works, although it's getting old.
Trying to solve the problem with an army of Game Masters and related flunkies doesn't work. You end up with endless complaints about the Game Masters, plus you have to pay for a big call center to take the complaints.
Everquest is in the middle; the world isn't stable enough to run hands-off, and the operators aren't numerous to run it like a fascist state. It's like living in a third-world country.
It will be interesting to see how the Sims Online manages this problem. That experience will drive the next generation of MMORPGs.
Read the Farmer/Morningstar paper on Habitat, the first graphical MMORPG. Those guys figured out this problem a decade ago.
Everquest is a game full of people who want to "win" and "be the best" at any cost.
Nah, the author is that kind of person. I don't play EQ, but a good chunk of my friends do. They don't seem interested in "winning" and "being the best." They are interested in improving their character, and spend a good chunk of time doing it, but life (for them) comes first.
When we're all downstairs smoking, I never hear them whining about how tough it is, only happily planning their next session.
Like so many other people here, I think the author should get a life so that his EQ "life" isn't so important to draw out this sort of vitriol.
The second thing you have to know is that slashdot stops begin fun and informative. By that time, though, you are "addicted" to slashdot comments but you don't realize it. Comments become a source of frustration and anger instead of news for nerds, stuff that matters. It becomes a chore, a job. You plod away at the keyboard, obsessed and consume with getting modded up, or seeing how many people you can get to respond with flames to you "troll" post, while so comsumed you begin to hate the website. Vehemently. It goes on forever, and one that you can never win.
After posting to slashdot for a while, you'll start conversing with other users, and you'll see the one thing all users have in common is they hate OSDN. (It should be noted that CmdrTaco and Hemon, the original developers, "sold out" to Andover and ownership changed hands again during the dot-com boom, so we will refer to them as OSDN for simplicity). This is baffling at first glance, because users view the banner ads every day and some even pay the volentary subscription service, and yet they despise them! Look a little deeper though, and you'll see that most people who dislike OSDN are the ones who no longer have fun posting to slashdot. They aren't getting what they want out of slashdot anymore, and they look to OSDN, being the source of all changes and improvements/breakdowns on the website, as the cause. Right or wrong, this is the state of addairs; the users hate the company providing they with the website they think has "stuff that matters".
Let's go back to the parts about OSDN not caring about their readership. Recently, they changed their moderation system such that, instead of a dedicated team of well know moderators to handle problems, ordinary users would temporarily be assigned moderator points roaming the various discussions infrequently.
----------
Ok, that's enough......
For the humor challenged, this feeble attempt at parody was intended to compare this whiny Everquest piece to the whining often heard about slashdot. There's plenty more in there... changes to the game causing loss of power analogous to changes that might impact someone's karma... the section about players determined to "win" and playing dirty analogous to trolling, karma whoring, gaming the site.... players harassing each others analogous to trolling and flame wars.... bugs and patch problems analogous to slashdot's regular not responding problems and Taco's inability to spell check.... the level of whining is just perfect.
Anyone else want to continue this?
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
"The game will absorb your life if you let it, while the days and weeks melt away into oblivion." Let's talk about some of the social effects of this 'game'.....like how it will alienate you from anyone who doesn't play. Your friends, your spouse, your children, anyone, in fact, that you 'used' to interact with. This game will have the same effect on your life that any other addiction causes You may not believe this, but one fine day when you wake up divorced, your kids hate you and your computer, and your family doesn't want to have anything to do with you any more, you may well wish you had never touched this game, or any other on-line game system. Good luck!
I was starting to read that article, then I realized it was just an attempt to suck me into wasting time on everquest.
I'm not sure if it's more sad that this chap wasted so much of his time playing EQ, or that he wasted even MORE time writing pages about it afterwards.
paintball
What happend to me was a stolen account. I stopped playing eq for 6 months, new job and all, after 6 months I decide to log in see whats going on. My password didn't work. So I call up EQ and try to retrieve my password. Well someone had been using my account for 5 months and Sony won't give me the new password becuase it appears I sold the account they say. What? How does it appear that way I ask, well they got an email from someone stating that the account was already stolen, and that I stole it from them, so Sony decides to ask them questions about the account. I guess they knew enough of my semi-personal info to pretend to be me. Like my address, dob, and phone number. So when I call they say I must have given that info out when I sold the account and the only way I can get the account back is to tell them the credit card I used to open the account. Thats insane, but I do it and wait a week. WIth no reply I email and ask them whats going on, Sony replies that card was wrong. Well since its been 3 years tell him let me give you another, this is their reply from Chris Johnson from sony
I sent you an email last week stating that you won't get the account back.
Sufficient information was provided and the current owner will keep control
of the account.
Damn you sony.
Another low for /.! Hey if I don't like a game and write a three page whine will you post mine to?
/. for putting this rubbage up.
I don't play EQ. Know why? Because it keeps costing money. I know I would be addicted. An no matter what you say addiction is fun. If it was truly boring you and everyone else would have given up a long time ago and Sony's little world would be out of business. But you and all the other slobs hand over you dollars because it is fun. So stop your whining (or at least do somewhere it will matter).
And two thumbs down to
Ever look at that ugly dog, Firiona Vie? The elf on the cover of all the boxes?
I don't know how she could do anything but scare children away.
Which is great, because the game's marketed to adults, really.
Mmm, Tier'dal hotties. Rowrl, I'd like to explore some of their underdarks.
It all boils down to something very simple, and it's not limited to MMORPGs. People who don't have respect want it, and MMORPGs (and other similar online games like Diablo II) are a fantastic way to get it because they require no skill whatsoever. All you need is time. The MMORPG (or just ORPG) world becomes a surrogate social life and the player's sole source of self esteem. They can compete with ANYONE IN THE WORLD, and do it SUCCESSFULLY if they just put in time (which EVERYONE has!).
If you're about to say "I play such a game because it's fun!" I dare you to play the game single player. It won't last a week. The best of these games for 1P is Diablo II, which an average player will get bored with in well under a month.
The article submitter has a very EQ-centric view because that was his personal time sink. The same general rules apply for all similar games, though, including the company's total apathy towards players. Because, you see, the rules are the same for everyone. Everyone gets nerfed together. No matter what they do, competition is still fair as long as all classes remain equal. And as long as competition is fair, it's he who puts in the most time that "wins." This encourages people with no skill (if the game even allows skill to help at all; most don't) to continue on, and they constitute the vast majority.
As a final note, there's the question of "why do all MMORPGs suck in terms of gameplay? What if one came along with the same addictive properties that was also fun?" The answer is simple: what's the point? Fun games don't earn nearly as much as addictive ones. Spending the development time on such a thing is unnecessary from a corporate viewpoint, and infeasible from an unsponsored one. Hence, it'll never happen.
--Anonymous Coward
One of the great amazon duelers of US East
..is it just me, or is this article screamingly ironic. To write an article about Not Taking The Game Seriously, it sounds like Someone Has Taken The Game Too Seriously
This sounds like another addiction most people have, watching too much TV. I am sure lots of the people here who are flaming this guy have passed up or avoided social interaction to instead watch their favorite show on TV.
At least everquest is only $15 a month, that is a lot cheaper then the typical cable bill.
I frequently see the anti-capitalist rant. "The companies don't care about me. They care only about making money!"
When was the last time you bought something from Sony and gave them an extra $5 to help them out? No, you paid the minimum amount--just enough so that you could legally acquire what you were purchasing. Must be that you care only about keeping as much money as you possibly can. Your motives are selfish and greedy.
Sure Sony doesn't love me. I'm okay with that. I don't love Sony. Every now and then, they offer a product or serivce I want for a price i like and we do business. That's where our relationship ends. They provide me no more than I pay for, and I pay for no more than they provide me.
There are some exceptions--times when I've acted specifically to support a particular company. However, my efforts are primarily greedy because it's always a company I want to survive and grow, or a situation in which the company owner is a friend of mine.
Love your family and friends and get it in return from them. Business is just business.
char *mySig;
Hah. I think you missed the point - he *did* fully describe what EverQuest is about. Most of the article explained EverQuest...
You run about and endlessly bash monsters, in order to get better loot, experience (to get more powerful of a character), and complete quests. In order to become truly powerful, you generally need to join a guild, and then embark on the insanely long (but not necessarily complex or intricate) quests or raids to get more loot.
That's it. There is no plot. No story. No goal. Nothing other than "gain more experience and loot." The only truly fun part of the game is the social interactions, altho that rarely occurs in the form of role-playing - generally just chatting. I can get that for free on IRC or AIM, and not pay $12.95...
This is true of most on-line games. Even my favorite on-line game, one which much better support and far more intricate and interesting gameplay (GemStone3 - http://www.gemstone3.com) really doesn't have a point. You play the game, explore, get better loot, and a more powerful character. It stays interesting after 7 years mostly because of the new content constantly added (and you generally have to explore it yourself - not instantly published across the Web like in EQ), and because role-playing is heavily encouraged. I can spend many hours just "hanging out" in at a party in GemStone3, where-as something like that in EQ would just degrade into the children trash-talking guilds or babbling about their l337 boxen.
I'm told some MMRPG's have actually hold stories and plots, but I've never played them. MS's Asheron's Call supposedly had player-driven events and plots, and another game whose name I can't recall (was it perhaps Anarchy Online) was only to run for 4 years, and have an "ending" to the story-line. GemStone3 also runs events/quests that are orchestrated by GM's with goals and stories, altho you usually need to pay their insanely high premium account prices to participate (it's a shame GS3 is so expensive, especially given that it used to be free - guess text-based MUDs don't get many subscribers these days to pay the costs a quality game incurs).
Anyways... </babble>
When whiners (sorry), like the poster of "What you really get from and online game." spring forth (they make up about 1% or so of the gamers, in my experience) I always encourage them to quit. They generally don't, because after their break, they feel better. To avoid winding up in that 1%-at-any-given-moment pool, I have a simple technique that works well for everyone who gives me feedback who DOES it: Click cancel as soon as you sign up...and sign up for 1 month at a time. That way, you can play as long as you like. And you can quit any time, and never be out more than a few bucks. Don't worry about what friends will think. Forget about who to give your gear or account to (they don't need it...let them get their own...and you will be back most likely...time is long). Don't worry about "all that time you have invested"! When you fold up the monopoly board, you don't look longingly at your stack of cash and property cards, and you don't worry about "the poor racecar being left unplayed". Remember MMOG are just games. When it is not fun, fold the box up and put it away. Do this in advance, and you will never end up playing a game you dislike...simply because you are paid up. And really, if your "friends" are going to be mad at your because you took a break...you just saved yourself from identifying who your real friends are "the hard way". Comes the day to pay up, you look hard at the game and ask yourself if you are having fun. And if the answer is NO, then you don't drop another quarter in the machine...much less a $13 or $39 chunk of change. Play, have fun. Or quit, and have fun someplace else! :)
Though I'm sure heroin is orders of magnitude more addictive than a EverQuest, I wouldn't overlook how addictive games like this can be.
Freshman year of college I was roommates with a kid who was pretty shy and antisocial. He was a really nice guy though, so whenever I went out to a party, or went to see a movie, or went out to get food with my friends I'd invite him along. First semester this worked, and my roommate actually ended up having a lot of fun and meeting a lot of people.
However, for Christmas he got Dark Age of Camelot. When he came back to school after Winter break he was a totally different person. He would stay up till 8am playing this game. He'd wake up at 6pm and repeat the cycle. He wouldn't go to class. He wouldn't do his work. I'd invite him to go get meals with me but he wouldn't. Instead, he'd order food to the room so that he wouldn't have to leave his game. This kid was no dummy either, he had a LARGE merit based scholarship and was a very smart guy. However, Dark Age of Camelot ruined all of that. I would plead with him to go to class. Plead with him to do his work. Plead with him to leave the room, but to no-avail. He ended up failing 3 out of his 4 classes and was kicked out of school.
The kid was given a life-changing opportunity. He came from a very humble background. His parents had nearly no money. He was the first person in his family to go to college. He had a large merit scholarship to a very respectable school. Though I don't discount the fact that he may have just had a latent addictive personality, I have to think that this game was part of the reason that he threw his great opportunity away.
Again, this is just one case. I'm not saying that games like this are necessarily inherently addictive. There is no doubt that a large part of that addiction is a result of an individual's personality. However, this sad story that I experienced first hand certainly made me aware that given certain circumstances, games such as EverQuest and Dark Age of Camelot can be horribly addictive and ruins people's lives.
-Matt
Duke '05
The game sucks. The CONCEPT of the game is cool but their execution is like watching a train wreck.
Imagine that in real-life you enjoy playing basketball. Now imagine that there was only one basketball court so that all age groups from 6-65 use this same court to play on. Of course, the oldy,moldy 50-year olds *could* try to form a team and try to have a polite game, but there's nothing stopping the group of 16-year-old rude, hormonal punks from stealing the ball, hanging on the basket, shoving aside other players, etc. After all, there's only one basketball court, everyone loves to play basketball, and they all have a right to use it, yes? This is particularly true if everyone is a paying customer.
IMHO, being unable to escape from players or player-behavior that you find obnoxious is the most detrimental feature of *all* the MMORPGs.
To date, though I have yet to play it extensively, only NeverWinter Nights seems to even attempt to address this issue by providing a single-player or multi-player format, along with a server and client format.
I don't have a solution to this situation. I'm only making an observation. While it might make sense game-wise to segregate by age group, gender, etc., it certainly doesn't make sense business-wise.
You can tell when someone live at home with mom. I was just doing my math to find out how much electicity a month will be to run my web server at home. It must be nice when your greatist worry if someone stole your karma points.
Shut up Chris, you can't say anything now!
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
Help! Help! Sony has taken control of my arm and hand and forcing me to write checks, stick them in an envelop and mail it!! Help!!!!! aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
There is more to this victimization than meets the eye. These people are already known to be "rejected" by society. Even in a society thats completely fabricated, they're still "victims" in their opinnions. Sounds like they're the problem and not Sony, society or . Either way, it still makes me fall out of my chair laughing when I think about the oppressive regime of a fantasy online world made by Sony.
started reading /.
thelikesofwhich.com
You create a character with six vital statistics, a spell/skill book, and a bunch of empty slots for inventory. You put armor and weapons in your inventory slots. You walk your blocky 100-triangle avatar out in a third-person view, you click on a monster to target it, and you hit a key to start auto-attacking it. You sit there twiddling your thumbs until either it dies or you die.
I played Gemstone III for quite a long time as a rogue. Attacking could take a variety of paths, but my usual methodology was hide (as best I could depending on terrain) and then when the enemy was in a particular position, go full offensive and jump out and ambush their leg. Hopefully I didn't miss or they'd be all over me. If I hit, they'd fall to the ground, and I'd do the same, ambushing their head or neck (for a more effective and critical attack). It would even show you the rolls of the dice if you wanted. It was a great game, and I enjoyed playing it for quite some time. However, eventually I tired of paying the monthy fees and decided to cancel my subscription. I still miss it to this day. Supposedly the DragonRealms game from Simutronics was even more advanced than Gemstone III, but I never got into that. It's a text-based game, though, so if you don't have an imagination, you should probably look elsewhere.
I found Gemstone III much more fulfilling than Everquest. GS3 was magnitudes beyond EQ. After it became a pay service (it used to be free if you were on AOL), the loser-newbie level dropped like a rock. I found most people who played the game were there to be part of the larger community. It really was a lot of fun.
You don't tell a diabetic to just give up diabetes, do you? Just because the process by which a psychological addiction exerts its hold over you is a black box, that doesn't mean it's any more trivial to resolve.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
If you really care about playing a good MMORPG, devote some time to one of the open source MMORPG projects like WorldForge. Or just teach yourself how to make good 3D models of game objects and put those out under the GPL for programmers to use. (The reason there aren't a lot of great high-end open source games out there for you is because there isn't enough great high-end art for the programmers.)
If 1% of the Everquest addicts had put 1% of their dedication into helping create open source games, the situation today would be much better than it is. It probably seems like a lot more effort to help make a game than to simply play it, but in the end it can be much more rewarding in the sense of being a hobby/craft, instead of just a hobby/game. You still get the sense of seeing things improve, being part of a community, and building up a good reputation.
The game industry hasn't quite reached the same point as other media, where the *only* way to make it big is to prostitute yourself to the corps - theoretically it should still be possible to make games via grassroots means. But not unless grassroots people (i.e. YOU) put some dedication into solving it.
Also, computer games are actually *important*. Seriously. Look at the list of reasons why people are still using Windows - up in the #1 or #2 slot will often be seen, "No games". Yet ironically, many open source developers will scoff at game efforts, "The project will never fly", "It'd take too much time", "Open source can't work for games", "They should be coding it in [C|Python|Java|etc.]", et al. The plain fact is that there are not enough creative and skilled people making open source games.
Open source games are particularly important, because unlike proprietary games, they have "longevity". This is due mostly to the fact that there are so few of them, to begin with, but also because of the intrinsic nature of open source. For examples, look at Hack, NetTrek, FreeCiv, etc. Games that originated a LONG time ago. A single good/big open source game can have a vast and long lasting benefit to the open source community.
Many of the problems mentioned in the articles can be avoided via open source. Bugs can be fixed by anyone who can read source and has an afternoon or two to kill. If the people running the server aren't providing decent service, find someone else that's running a copy of the game - or set up a copy yourself just for you and your friends. If the game seems too long in the tool art-wise or feature-wise, well grab a copy of the content and/or code and start making patches.
Anyway, unlike the problems of the RIAA, Globalism, suppression of freedoms in the US, etc. etc., this is a problem that YOU can _directly_ do something about to fix, without risking anything but some freetime.
If you have a flair for art, create some good 3D meshes. If you can do photography, build a massive library of texture images. If you're good at making or performing music, or have a good voice, or just like to wander around in the wilderness with a microphone, then create sounds for games. If you can do code design, then come up with modules for game logic (like a perl module for simulating vegetation growth, or a C code for making snazzy spell effects, or a library to go with SDL). Design nifty looking GUI interfaces. Make maps of an imaginary world. Scan in your fantasy drawings and post on the web for 3D artists to use as sources.
If you know none of this, well, at least you can (presumably) write. And it turns out that writing is the 100% MOST needed skill by most open source projects, games in particular. Write a paper summing up good ideas for certain game rules you've seen, and your thoughts on improving them. Invent a new race for a RPG and put in intricate detail into every aspect of it.
Can't write? Well, likely you can read web pages and make lists. Find some topic of relevance to games and start building a table. Create a spreadsheet of different kinds of real-world flowers, with data about how they grow. Collect a database of riddles, sorted by difficulty. Invent a list of futuristic handguns. Build a solar system with details for each planet.
The important thing here is to create reusable *components*. Games are *hard* to make. They take more time than you have yourself; more time then you and your clique of friends. (Well, except for dinky little arcade or card games, but of course those aren't what we're talking about here.) In order to make these big games, we need to leverage open source's strength of _modularity_. We as a community need to have lots of really good "bits" that someone can gather together in a year or two and turn into a good game. Or, hopefully, a bunch of people can take and turn into a bunch of different games.
If you don't like working alone, no prob - there are still a bunch of game development projects/communities out there that you can join for feedback/help/encouragement/friendship/etc.
Whatever you choose to do, please, PLEASE put it out explicitly under the GPL license (or BSD, or Public Domain). If you do, then open source game developers will be able to make use of it in their game efforts. (There is tons of content out there on the web right now, but most of it is unusable due to license issues.)
So, next time you feel a sense of frustration over some proprietary, closed source game, that disempowers you from being able to fix it, grab Blender, or emacs, or Sodipodi, or Timidity, or whatever, and create something to help the game developers out there.
I'm going to apologize in advance if this postshurts anyone. I'm usually not this blunt.
This article is pathetic. The author makes himself look like a complete fool. I feel no sympathy for him at all. His "addiction" not only keeps him playing a game that he "hates" but also makes him write whiny letters about it? I'd hate to be in his shoes.
I agree with Linux_ho. This guy needs to admit that he gets something he likes out of the game, or quit playing. He wouldn't be playing the game if he didn't enjoy the frustrations of the game. If he really doesn't like the game, he should stop playing.
If it is really addictive (which I doubt), it's still pretty easy to quit. All he has to do is stop paying. Spend the money on theater tickets or something. This guy needs to find some less self-destructive form of entertainment, or admit that he likes the "pain" EQ causes him.
t'nera semordnilap
I don't get it. I really don't. I've been playing EQ since the last expansion came out, off and on. I hvae a lvl 19 Rogue.
I've gotten bored. There are only so many times you can kill something and 'get the power up' without things getting really boring. I'm getting ready to cancel my account on there.
I've started playing Dark Age of Camelot. Another interesting game. I've not heard 'the evils' of it. But it has a slightly better graphics interface and it's 'fun' for now.
Seems to be easier to 'get the power up' and the Realm vs. Realm part fills your interest in competeting against another player without it being a free for all where lvl 90 people stomp the newbies and think it's funny. You go into RvR you know you're in a world of hurt and they are out to get you, in EQ if you're on a PvP server, walking through the forest means some weenie will anally rape you for 3 copper pieces.
not that much fun in my book
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Sorry this isn't about Sony, but about MMORPG addiction...
Addictive machine-generated worlds are yet another accurate predicion of Arthur C. Clarke. Read "THE LION OF COMARRE," a short story by Arthur C. Clarke (1968). The plot involved a machine that people hook up to, which puts them into a tailor-made synthetic world, where they can be whatever it is they want to be. (Think THE MATRIX, but personalized and pleasant.) Users connected to this electronic Shangri-La never leave and never wake. Disconnecting someone can be devastating.
And here we are, on the road to Comarre. Everquest and others are only computer games, but look at how addictive they are. I wonder how addictive they'll be once the makers REALLY figure out how to addict people. Could we see "Comarre Houses" spring up, for junkies to cash out and live only for the game? Ha, no, we have the internet. And, of course, humans do actually interact with each other in MMORPGs, albeit to a limited extent.
One thing the author didn't mention, getting too deep into one of these games can be a reason to stay in itself. If personal and professional life have decayed or disappeared due to neglect, the player doesn't have anything to go to, outside of the game. (This was the case in Comarre.) The act of unplugging would be too traumatic, the recovery time too long... So they stay... Classic addiction behavior.
This is one of Clarke's predictions (in his stories) that I'd rather not see come to full fruit.
I have played EverQuest for several months, and quite frankly, I got bored with it. I owned an XBox, and decided to spend $50 on XBL. I couldn't believe the difference. The only live game I have right now is Moto GP, but it woke me up. EverQuest is dull because no skill is required to play. But XBox games require you to practice and think about what you're doing. Just try it and see for yourself.
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"After playing the game for a while, you'll start conversing with other players, and you'll see the one thing all players have in common is that they all hate Sony - the designers of Everquest."
Hmm, someone complains about EQ and projects his opinions on the rest of the players. Having been playing the game for a year now I can safely say I don't hate Sony, even though their customer service is poor and they keep screwing things up in the game for no good reason. It's just a game, for "Bob"'s sake.
I used to play EQ years ago and every single point made in this article was exactly how I felt every time I tried to quit. I quit and restarted a couple times and now im off the crack :-p tho I still have urges every now and then. I no longer buy MMORPGs until ive played the beta to make sure its not like EQ. Of the people I knew who played with me, some of which I still talk to, every single one of them felt this way too. The game is like a drug, without the part where you enjoy the high. RUN AWAY :-p
I disagree with a number of things this poster came up with.
I've played Everquest off and on for about 2 years. I don't make a habit of jumping on between 9 and 11pm every night nor do I consider my online persona to be an extension of my real life one. I play it like a game, whenever I'm in the mood to go gaming.
I've talked (online) with a number of other players that I group with, and I haven't really found anyone that shares this author's attitude that Sony is evil and the game is just there to rip them off. They play because they enjoy it.
Sure, you are rewarded for the time you spend playing. I enjoy increasing my skill at crafts or hitting a new level and gaining strength and nifty new spells. People start to need you in the game, and it feels good to help others reach your level.
Whining that the game is sucking your life away is retarded. Don't play the damn thing if you can't control yourself. Cancel your account! For those reading this and thinking of avoiding EverQuest (or any MMRPG), please take all of this with a grain of salt. It's a game like any other, except that it never ends. There's plenty of things to do, places to explore and quests to perform, and if your character gets stronger and you get wiser along the way, so much the better.
"Playing EQ is a lot like playing in a casino; you can see your winnings vanish in the blink of an eye out of sheer bad luck. It is not a game where you can ever feel secure."
Duh. That's a key part of what makes EQ so great (in some respects). There is always that sense of having something at risk. Once you let yourself settle in the boring exp camps that are completely risk free is when this game starts becoming work like and very not fun.
even though many may not agree with me, isnt this article (also the modded up comments) should be a benchmark for Microsoft when creating Online game which competes with EQ? They can do all that Sony faulted at and make more money. way to go mic....
EQ was a great social game -- for the two years I played it, it was an awesome experience playing every other day with my friends from college (who I dearly missed, as a lot of them moved far away). Not only did I get to talk to them like I would in chat clients, I got to roam the world the kill baddies with them... hunt for treasures, get stomped on by giants... *tons* of great challenges, laughs, and memories!
.. ...up to a certain point.
And really... in my mind, it's still a great game.
EQ was originally designed with 50 levels in mind -- and guess what -- it shows. Up to level 50, the leveling of your character and the gear s/he gets seems to flow at a good pace. Play a few hours a day, and you'll get a level in week or two. Play a bit longer on the weekends in order to explore a dungeon, and you'll get some neat items that make a noticable difference in appearance or stats. They wouldn't be the most powerful weapons/armor on the planet, but they would be roughly 70% effective compared to the totally awesome gear, with about 50% of the time/effort required to obtain them.
However, once my friends & I got past level 50, we found that good items were extremely difficult to come by. Sure, we could still kill stuff and gain levels, but we were finding that our equipment was a bit outdated. At level 50, we still had on equipment that we had obtained from quests and adventures when we were level 40. Unfortunately, at this point in the game, Sony/Verant forgot to populate the world with half-decent items for level 50+ folks. Small dungeon bosses no longer dropped half-decent gear, but dropped completely useless junk. So, you either stuck with old gear from the level 40 era (which made you pretty weak), or you had to spend a BIG chunk of time attending plane raids, which can take gobs of hours and organization.
So, there we were -- a small guild of 12 people, all in their level 50's, no longer able to get any useful gear within a reasonable (3-4 hours) amount of time... We still loved the game, but we couldn't advance anymore, as the game requires you to have decent gear... so we eventually quit.
It's too bad, really... there are a ton of people playing EQ like myself who are *not* uber-gamer-addicts who *must have* 9999 hitpoints. If Sony would cater to people like myself, they'd have far better profit ratio... Casual gamers like me play less, complain less (as we aren't getting into heated battles over items), and still pay the same amount per month...
Hopefully Star Wars Galaxies will realize this fact, and cater to the more casual gamer...
- retired level 52 cleric, level 40 druid
I'm still trying to get my ass out of those super bat-snatches..
but my play is stalled since its a bitch to get parts for my broken trs-80 model 1.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Don't talk bollocks. Try setting your goal as working alone or with a single partner. Try setting you goal as ridding the world of monsters or evil or whatever; can't be done.
Simcity was a really shitty game, I couldn't tank rush other cities to collect all the pieces of the Triforce!
Of course the set of possible goals of limited by the framework of the game, that doesn't mean it's a small set by any means. Some people want to level to 65, others want to do their epic quest, or cap out a trade skill, kill this or that dragon, be the best whatever on the server... Everquest is a very big game, and it is what you make of it.
Most of the long-term players I see on the MMORPGs seem to be into the social climbing aspects of the game. The longer (most of) you play, the more good loot you get. Though this creates problems for new players, it seems to me the system could be adapted to online games that terminate more quickly -- how about outfitting quake with a title/tier system where the more wins you have, the higher tier you can play? That'd let the newbies advance while letting the really incredible players duke it out at their skill level. Tradewars has the social climbing aspect too, though those games don't last as long as the commercial MMORPGs.
I've heard there are now companies that apparently reap enough profit from Everquest items that they can afford employees. Kind of hard to believe (Maybe CmdrTaco could set one of his roving reporters on the subject?) If true, THOSE are the people you're competing with in the game, and you KNOW how a company will behave to maximize its profits...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I played EverQuest for years, I never reached the "end game" except vicariously through my friend's accounts. Yet I did not find it hard to have fun in the game. I had fun from day one up to the day I quietly retired. Low levels, mid levels, high levels: it was always the journey to me. Many people seem to forget the Roleplay aspect of this game when going for the phat lewt. I had fun exploring "new lands" or simply "fishing at the dock". I participated in quests according to whether or not I thought they would be fun to puzzle out, not necessarily on the lewt it would bring me. I also participated in PvP. All of these activities can be enjoyed at any level of the game -- and while playing less than 10 hours a week.
And, once I was tired of it all and ran up against some of the issues other have mentioned, I quietly retired, only retaining my involvement in what I found best about the game: the friends I made in it, and the communities I found.
And before you ask, yes, I found these people to be "friends", I met them offline, I've visited their homes and vice versa now adays we rarely discuss the game at all in favor of other topics.
Anyway, yes heed some of the warnings, but don't let one post scare you. You can buy the game, or any other MMORPG and try it out, you aren't locked in for a year but can stop your account if you don't like it. And, by all means, if you don't have fun right from the start, don't continue.
You will only have as much with any game as the fun you create yourself, and with the journey you make of it.
~Fricka
OffLineTshirts.com
...play NetHack!
You don't tell a diabetic to just give up diabetes, do you? Just because the process by which a psychological addiction exerts its hold over you is a black box, that doesn't mean it's any more trivial to resolve.
Uhh, diabetes is actually an endocrine disorder resulting from failure to produce and/or metabolize insulin. Insulin is necessary to live so we're all 'addicted' to it. So far nobody has kicked the insulin habit and lived.
That all EQ players are really male afterall?
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Actually, I think the author's point is that nobody's EQ game goes the way they would like. This point seems well supported by numerous examples of the mechanisms by which this happens. He doesn't give much explantion about what keeps most people from figuring this out, or doing anything about it, but that's really not too suprising: from many of the posts here, it's obvious that nobody understands addiction in the first place. At least he had the sense to not mouth off about it anyway. To me, a Slashdot article that sticks to concrete facts and avoids sophomoric speculation is a pleasant change of pace. Naturally, everybody else here hates it.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
So, let me get this straight:
You hate the game, you hate the company running things, you hate the "overseers" who are charged with keeping things running smoothly, you feel like your complains are ignored, you hate the other people playing...And you still keep sending in your money, on the extremely remote possibility that things will somehow get better, even though you know that those in charge have no reasonable impetus to improve the situation? You play this game, even though there is nothing compelling you to continue a completely unrewarding task?
Wow. If this is how players behave on EQ, which is a game that people pay for, with nothing to stop you from quitting, I can't begin to imagine how their work situation is, where workers have a vested interest in staying on, despite poor conditions.
Actually, I'm thinking of starting a company that uses EQ players exclusively as our workers. It seems I can abuse them as much as I want, since they'll put up with mistreatment as long as "things might get better". I'll occasionally pay them, but I won't have to worry about them enjoying their work. And as long as I hold out the possibility of job advancement, I can string them along as long as I'd like.
I swear I had a girlfriend that worked just like this. :)
Coming from a former EQ gamer as myself, cancel
your account and encourage those that value
your input to cancel.
Allow me to suggest a game that really beats
Everquest in regards to bang=bucks:
Neverwinter Nights.
The folks at BioWare just released an expansion
for free. That's right. For Free.
Not only that, they bundled within the game the tools
to make your own modules.
I cannot offer you a total solution to your issues.
Just merely an alternative path.
You've done the first step to realizing your addiction.
Now act on it.
Have fun and enjoy a better and brighter New Year!
Make a resolution to break the addiction and overcome your anger.
--Friendly reminder from Beatnick, your neighborhood drugg^H^H^H^H^H^Hpharmacist
Is basically NOTHING. I mean, and this doesn't just apply to EverQuest, all a game does is suck time and energy out of you. Obviously, most games (excluding certain online ones) have a finite ability to do so - they end. But still, you get absolutely nothing from a game in the greater sense of "getting something". Do you learn anything that is useful in, dare I call it, "real life"? Most would argue, no. Do you make more money than you spend? Hah, no way. Does it improve your social skills? Some would have you think so.
But I still hold firmly to the belief that any game, whether it be online or single-player, takes more away from a player than it gives. Besides the few hours of cheap thrills, it's basically a waste of time. Spend that time reading a book or going to evening classes and you might actually end up with something useful.
The Welkin: Online Music Reviews
Nope. Original work, not based on a prior mud. Of course, all the programmers were mudders of one sort or another but it was a new world concept and storyline.
$you = new YOU;
honk() if $you->love(perl)
I played EQ for a while (about 2 months). At first it was fun to go into a world with lots of people in it. Unfortunately, it didn't remain fun for very long.
The community of players turned out to be not very interesting at all. It took an hour to find a good group, or even meet with someone I knew. It eventually became boring and repetetive to build my character. The strange thing was that I
felt that I had to keep playing and building my character, because I was paying for it. EQ quickly became a part time job that I was PAYING FOR.
I discovered that my character was essentially meaningless as well. Everyone around me was an adventurer just like me. No matter what I did, the world was always exactly the same. People would eternally continue to raid the same zones, full of the same monsters, to get the same treasures. Nothing any player does really effects the game world.
I quit EQ, and subsequently tried DAOC, hoping it would be better. DAOC was slightly better, but still eventually had the same problems as EQ.
Honestly, it is much more fun to play the countless NWN mods out there. It is much more enjoyable, honestly, because these modules have plots where your character is important. You can also play as little or as much as you want without worrying about wasting money.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
So you're paying for an online adventure game and are having "problems" when you get to advanced levels? People who have managed and played MUD's could have told you about this...10 years ago.
The reason why you're having such a lousy time playing the game is that the game is over for you. Sure, Sony wants you to continue playing so they release new modules but, for the most part, it's over. Deal with it.
The only game that extends on for years and years is life--everything else has an ending or a reset cycle.
I am sick of EQ, i havn't played in a month now and now htat i have read your post i am asking my self why i havn't cancled yet.. i think it is time to do so.
So basically EQ is just Statbuilder, with a UI designed to obfuscate that fact until you've invested too much time and money to just drop it?
If so, it's a a lot different from Chess, I'd say.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Is anyone besides me a little amused that a guy named "bonewielder" would complain about all the time he's left "holding [his] member?"
Mainframe geek.
I've posted this late, so nobody is going to see it and it won't get modded very high. Oh well.
A close friend of mine from high school is busy toiling away at Turbine (now a subsidiary of the evil Microsoft) on Asheron's Call part deux, which was released to what appears to be next to zero fanfare in time for the holidays.
He's told me some pretty revealing stories about what it's like working on a MMORPG. In particular, he spoke at length about two of AC's biggest problems: bots and level treadmills.
Both bots and level treadmills create a problem for those companies that run MMORPGs... they annoy the casual players! That's right, casual players are actually the preferred customer. Casual players log in for a few hours a day, do a few quests, and log out. They pay the same amount of money per month that the 24/7 addicts pay, but they don't suck down the server resources like a Washington intern.
Addicted players "take" more than they "give", so to speak, in terms of resources. They also make the game suck for the more profitable casual customer. Some online games have begun to incorporate things like daily limits on point accumulation or rapidly diminishing returns in order to discourage people from staying connected 16 hours a day. Incidentally, such limits also make it less profitable to set up a bot to perform redundant and boring tasks while you sleep.
So the companies themselves are aware of the addicts, and actually want to discourage them for largely monetary reasons. Hardcore addicts discourage new players and cause high player turnover rate. They're making money hand over fist right now, so those resource leeching newbie-scaring hardcore addicts aren't being dumped offline. But you can bet they will be if the tides turn. The addicts aren't the bread and butter of the MMORPGs, no matter what they want to believe.
My friend also spoke at length about customers who just won't shut the hell up, who insist on complaining about everything, who make unreasonable or unprogrammable "suggestions" and then rant and rave when they aren't incorporated in the next patch. The complainers are a small minority, but they sure do make a lot of noise. They also really dampen the morale of the programmers who have the task of bringing new features into the game post-release. Once a game is released, the programmers who are tasked with implementing bug fixes and new features have a lot more leeway in choosing what gets added and what doesn't, and lobbying for changes that they think would be good. Just one more reason to be NICE when you're making your case in the developer forum, and to be NICE when the suggestion you thought was the bee's knees is turned down.
Happy Holidays!
I played EQ for about 3 months steady, then coasted
for 3 months before quitting. As a programmer that
has written game code in the past, it became readily
apparent that the people supporting EQ either don't
do any work at all or are so technically inept that
productive work is beyond them. "kill stealing" is
probably the most complained of problem in EQ. It
would not be terribly difficult to code around, yet
no advances in that regard have ever surfaced since
the game was created. When you cannot go 5 minutes
in the game without hearing someone whining about
someone else stealing their kill, the issue should
have been addressed long ago. This is just one
example of their complete lack of ability to
properly evolve and improve their codebase.
"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."
oh, yes, thats very telling.
I think you need to get "addicted" to something like work.
Thats just what we need, to get addicted to work... i sense *you* might have a love-hate relationship w/ work...?
Played EQ for 2 years solid.
8-24hrs a day.
Main char after one year had a full THREE months
of on-line time racked up on it.
Walked away from the internet and EQ for a month.
Sold my account and have never looked back.
If you have any addictive traits at all, don't
play everquest.
I had never played a game for more than 2 months up
till then.
Just say no.
I play EQ a lot, I'm in one of the more well known guilds, where I'm fortunate enough to have been vested with a certain notoriety to write publicly about the experience - one of the best perks to my position is discussing the game with a very large segment of the player base on an almost daily basis.
First off, yes, of course, you do meet the freaks, but by and large, I truly love talking with the players - who quite generally strike me as normal, friendly and interesting. I see a very clear separation between the person at the keyboard and the character on the screen, even if they go by the same handle. I *do* believe elements of EQ are designed to encourage an addictive play style, regardless of what the content producers and Sony VP's state - but the same claim can be made of all RPG's, and as a business practice, those saying "Sony just wants you to play longer and spend more!" - thank you Capt Obvious.
The overwhelming consensus is that we do hate Sony, VI is out of touch with its fan base and the game needs some major changes in countless areas - well, no shit. Slashdot's community hates the RIAA and MPAA, but enjoy the products they put out and continue to pay for those products on a regular basis - Pot, meet Kettle.
In fact, replace EQ with LUG's, Perl Poetry, Case Mods, Hacking, Genealogy - you name it the flavor of the month - and any comment close to the misinformed jabs tossed out here would be considered offensive. Just as in those intellectual pursuits, an interest, enjoyment and (extreme) time commitment in playing EQ does not necessarily correspond to a community filled with social/personal defects deserving of scorn and ridicule. Rabid EQ players are also pro football, baseball and NASCAR athletes, some are doctors, lawyers, college professors and writers -extraordinary diversity has been my experience.
EQ periodically holds Fan Faires across the country, with players gathering to attend a convention - these Fan Faires draw 1000's every year, yet inevitably someone latches in on and attacks attendees who go in costume, those who are over weight, those who aren't Hollywood beautiful - if those same people would set back for a moment, the larger picture emerging from those captured images is a vibrant and involved community. People are smiling, greeting, face to face for the first time, many others people by "just some game" - conversing about an extreme array of subjects, they are shaking hands, hugging, laughing and enjoying each other's company.
Those same people, the ones having fun and making friends - those are your social misfits?
-Tork
Damn straight brother! :-D
I've been playing various RPGs with a group of friends since high school. We're all married, have families and careers, yet we still gather regularly. One of our number even works for Wizards of the Coast - who sez you can't make it pay!?
I've always found live RPG with REAL humans FAR preferrable to ANY video game.
Excellent comment, IMHO.
So the game isn't fun for everyone. Just because you realized that you spent however many months of your life playing this stupid thing doesn't mean that other people don't enjoy it. Instead of bitching about the game, why not find out why YOU have an addictive personality and deal with it. Though some people may joke calling "Everquest" "Evercrack", it isn't physically addicting. The game isn't the cause of this, you are. This isn't an excellent article, it's an inane rant on why some guy got turned off from some game because it stopped being fun.
yeah because no one plays too much Counterstrike, Warcraft, Starcraft, quake III or unreal right? only eq.. what the fuck ever people get hooked on any video game. some people dont become eq crackheads and only play a little bit each week. sorry if you couldnt handle it but its like a guy who smokes a joint then gets hooked on herion and blames in on the joint.. what the fuck ever have some self control.
"The bottom line being, you can go to bed one night with a great character and items, and wake up in the morning to find all that has changed; leaving you holding your member..."
Well, it looks like the author still has his priorities straight...he grabbed his member before logging back in....
Ed Wedig
Graphic design services
docbrown.net
Cancel your subscription, uninstall the game, delete the remains from your hard drive, break the game CDs in half and throw them and the manuals and other material in the trash. 5 minutes of resolution and the monkey is gone permanently. If you hate the game so much, you should be able to manage that in the heat of frustration.
I'd also note that the author's complaints about EQ don't differ much from problems in any RPG. Way back when AD&D came out, there were similar problems with campaigns after characters reached a certain level. A good DM could postpone the inevitable for a while, but the only permanent fix was to start a new campaign in a new world with new low-level characters.
ALL Online RPGs are like this.
There are a couple of reasons to make multiplayer games. First, it's a cheap way to get good AI. Good AI is hard, and it's easy to slap a people in chairs.
Second, there can be positive interaction, like chatting with friends. That can be good for the player experience.
Third, and this is not insignificant, it's much easier to stop piracy if the player *must* log into a server to play.
Okay. That pretty much sums up the pros of multiplayer gaming. Now for the cons.
First, player interaction can be pretty negative. I think Penny Arcade said
it best: "And those you encounter online are, almost as a rule, complete and utter cockmongers." Players will happily cheat, get angry and harass people, attack connections, etc, etc.
Second, multiplayer games with a central server frequently have monthly fees.
Third, single player games can be played...well, just about forever. If you loved X-COM, you can still sit down and play a good game of it. Players of the (much more recent) Weapons Factory Quake 2 mod are far more difficult to find.
Fourth, a computer can lose and lose and lose, and doesn't care. Players generally like to win more than half the time, which doesn't work too well for competitive multiplayer games (and purely cooperative games, while really neat, are *very* rare). So if players are playing an RTS, someone is probably getting unhappy.
Fifth, multiplayer games are much more open to failures. Firewalling, network problems, a slow connection, traffic from other users...all can contribute to be a real annoyance to the player playing the game.
Sixth, multiplayer games (with a *few* exceptions, like play-by-email games) must be real-time. To avoid inconveniencing other players, there is no pause feature. You can't get up and stretch or answer the door or do what you want whenever you want.
Seventh, it's very difficult to do a reasonably good plot-based multiplayer game. I can't think of any multiplayer games that use plot to much advantage.
I've looked at the shift towards online games with a profound lack of excitement. Sure, it's great for game companies, but it isn't all that great for game players.
Already, game companies are so eager to get on the game bandwagon that they've thrown a glut of games into every "fad" multiplayer genre that's come out. Three years or so ago, it was multiplayer FPSes. Everyone and their brother had to have a multiplayer FPS. More recently, a glut of "realistic" multiplayer FPSes has come out. There was a *huge* explosion in MMORPGs...and companies kept entering a market that they knew was already saturated.
Few really good single player games have come out in the past few years. Max Payne -- I didn't play it, but it was so cinematic that I watched a friend play through the entire game. Very impressive piece of work, sold very well...and yet, unlike multiplayer games, it didn't spawn twenty clones the next year.
The single-player RPG market for the PC is also pretty weak. There's a few, mostly obscure games. Arx Fatalis is pretty impressive. Blade of Darkness.
Kind of sad, the shift away from single player games. It used to be that you could play a fifteen-year-old game. People did too, and loved the nostalgia. Pac-Man, 1943, Centipede. Four years from now, all of today's games will be dead, because there will be almost no one playing them.
May we never see th
Aside from the obvious ("don't play it then, vote with your money"), the problem is more general, it seems.
/., but 99% of us are lazy cowards and wouldn't lift a finger to change things, much less save someone they don't even know from harrassment (except if it's a cool chick).
People have become used to live with all kinds of shit. Windows constantly crashing? They just take it like the weather. "Improved" service at the gas station? Oh, no use complaining anyway. My rights taken away by a fascist government? Nothing I can do, so why care?
I'm told by old folks that there was a time when there were no young punks being cool on the train. If they'd start harassing someone (especially a women), a bunch of local dock workers would stand up and put them where they belong.
That was maybe 30 years ago. Last year, a bunch of students in my city made an experiment. They staged all kinds of harassment, from mild to bad up to a knife fight during various hours at a train station (with knowledge of authorities, yada yada). If I remember correctly, the record was that nobody did anything, and one women used one of the many available emergency phones to call for help.
So what's that got to do with Everquest? It's that most of us rant here at
Disclaimer: I'm more of a coward than I like to, but I've done the occasional stepping up, and I've written to my representative a couple times. I also keep a list of shops where I don't buy anymore.
It ain't that much, but it ain't that hard either.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
all i can say is, how is this possible?
well first off i should write that i'm not a big fan off online gameing.
waste of precious bandwith...
now i do enjoy a game once in a wille I play it for a week then i get borred with it
and just start cheating to see the end
YES I CHEAT
remember i do not play online so I dont hurt anyone.
the only games that had me realy in their power were a snes game called mana (a long long time ago) and more recently gothic. but that was
a month then i killed the sleeper mwhuahahahaaha
how can something so tedious becomme an adiction?
just a question comming from somme one who had to kick some of the real addictive stuff
Life is all about addiction -- an uncanny obsession that provides focus and the means to ignore distractions. Einstein was addicted to physics, Lance Armstring to training. How many of the heroes in the computer industry can be truly said to be free of the long nights of coding and social destruction that stem from a "computer addiction." Time spent performing an addictive action passes quickly and transparently...we don't notice the outside world, we are just totally and contentedly enamored with what we're doing. And that contentedness is important. It's not the same as happiness, and it's not an easily packaged thing, easily deconstructed thing. The elation of an olympic athlete or a nobel prize winner can be yours in part simply by knitting the last stitch on a scarf, killing the final boss in a game, or organizing a delicious meal. But if all you do is buy the scarf, cheat to win, and heat up the meal, your elation is diminished. The longer the wait, the better the results -- this is true even if the results themselves are as pathetic as they seem to be in EQ.
We become addicted to things which aren't immediately simple...that allow us to shine, but that require much hard work and practice. Nobody becomes addicted to games like twisted metal or jet set radio. Games which are easily finished are easily set aside. The tedious parts becoming boring. But in an addictive game, the tedious parts becoming suspenseful. They become a time for nervous intropspection and mental preration for the task ahead. Like weight lifting, or jogging, or tuning a guitar. If the drive is great enough, any reward is worthwhile. I've seen people bust their asses and destroy their family lives for free movie tickets and a piece of paper marked "Employee of the Month." I can respect EQ players for wanting to do the same.
The problem people seem to have with Everquest is that it's an artificial environment. So? Who cares! If that's what it takes for the players to enjoy themselves, why is it any of your business? Every environment is artificial...it's all constucts of the same arbitrary stuff obeying the same arbitrary rules. Politics is an artificial construct of mass interpersonal relationships, and sports are VERY artificial constructs. Your average athlete has dozens of stats which dictate his skill on the field, and even the best athlete can lose on a "bad day." To me, that seems a lot like Everquest -- a lot like any RPG. Huh, maybe that's because fantasy games are an attempt to capture the elation of success and bestow it on people who might otherwise never feel it. We can't all be Doug Flutey, but we can be with NFL Gameday 2k3.
Furthermore, the comments people have been making -- that EQ players have no other friends, that they should enjoy the outside world, that they are wasting their time -- are defeatest, rude, and useless. For one thing, I think it's true that a lot of EQ players were failed by the outside world for some reason. Maybe they are shy, or have trouble speaking, or just don't know how to make friends. For these people, environments like EQ are a godsend and can actually be helpful outside the game itself. It doesn't matter to them whether you think it's "real" or not. It may not be apparent to people who undertake the folly of trying to talk to the player while they're zoned out, but it can be effective therapy. My years as an online Quaker turned me from a quiet, nervous introvert to a rather cocky extrovert, and that attracted a lot of my friends who've never even seen Quake. Just don't try and talk to me when I'm behind that mouse.
And finally: what did you think the EQ world would be like? The real world is full of those who will cheat to win and gang up on the weak. Real systems are always decaying. You can see real life as one crushing defeat after another, interspersed by minor victories such as finding a good deal on a PDA or a funny website. Expecting games which are supposed to spin a new reality to do so in a way that is unrealistic is kind of foolish. This is what you get in a public system, boyo -- get used to it, or go back to playing Magic on the steps of the community college.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
fucking whaaa
It is a freaking game. Pull the plug if it makes you cry like a little girl, no my little girl dosn't even cry like this...
s/Everquest/Slashdot/g
Stupidity is mis-underestimated.
Kill stealing is all about antisocial brats and overcrowded zones. If you keep finding your kills stolen, you should probably go fight in one of the other bazillion empty zones that no one's using. You'll have much more fun there than in the two or three of them are considered "easier" for no apparent reason to people who've long passed that level.
Everquest is a game centered on rewarding you for how much time you put into it.
Then play something else. I'm running a (free as in beer) online game called BattleMaster that is explicitly built to allow you the full game even if you can only log on twice a day for 5-10 min each.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Is it Sony's fault you continue to do something you no longer enjoy?
$you = new YOU;
honk() if $you->love(perl)
If it's that bad of a damn game just do us all a favor and quit. Disapear from EQ and it will be better for you and everyone on your server, I'm sure.
Due to a disability, I missed Christmas with my family. My much younger cousin, about 16-17 years old, got me a really nice gift that was totally unexpected. Better late than never, I'd like to get him something good for his computer.
He has a PentiumII-400 with windows 98SE, and at least 384 MB of memory, possibly more, and a 19" screen. It was the original graphics card that came on fully loaded $3000 dell at the time, but I'm sure the graphics card is old by today's standards. I may upgrade the card for him as well if it's in my budget.
What is a good 1st person shooter game that I can buy for him and he doesn't have to play online (so I don't have to worry about open ports and hackers getting into his computer).
The only thing I have is Duke Nukem which is a few years old, and gets boring once you can reach the last level. I've never played Doom, but it seems to be popular. Is this available as a disk and can be played offline? How much? Should I check pricewatch, or am I stuck with CompUSA? Can any of these disks be backed up as iso images in case of scratches? I'm not buying him something that may cost $50 or $60 or more and is on a CD, where all CDs are easily scratched and ruined.
He's not into tech that much. He's more into high school football. But he uses Kazaa or limewire a lot also.
Is there something better/newer that you can recommend? A link would be appreciated. I'm bookmarking this so I can check responses. Thank you very much for your help. This should make his New Years.
Your the problem and only you can fix it. People get addicted to all sorts of things, and other people do the same things and don't. People with addictions when they really get tired of it, do what they have to, to beat the addiction. You'll never beat it blaming someone else. Beating an addiction is not easy, but people do it everyday. Something you slip back and eventually have to break the addiction again. But if YOU really want to stop you will do what ever it takes to stop it.
Just remember Oprah love ya honey!
Recev'd Xbox for Xmas.....
Got it setup, not bad, not good
Played games recev'd with Xbox
MechAssualt plugs into Xbox Live
Go out buy Xbox live kit
Headphone and CD
Setup, again not bad, not good
Proceed to communicate with players
Most common heard phrase?
S@CK MY D1CK A$$HOLE
Repeated constantly
for 2hrs in 4 different games
and this is after trying for an hour to find a game that wasn't going to disappear before it stopped.
Playing offline now
Much happier
~corporate tool, but employed~
damn. well said. thank you!
"I think, therefore I get paid."
Double bonus points!
Yet, my unemployment rages on. There's a good definition of irony.
More to the point, I meant "what other people call work, but I'd call doing a wicked job on a device driver of some sort"
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
I'm not into MMORPGs myself, but like many computer-geeks, I am getting into the classic board game Go.
The things that make Go most appealing to me as a newbie are it's unmatched handicapping and ranking systems. Players who are fairly certain of their own strength relative to that of their opponent--no matter what their skill level--can go into any game with a 50/50 chance of winning.
I try not to spend *too* much time online (I'm a busy guy), so one reason I've stayed away from games like Everquest is because I know there's no way I'll be able to compete with folks with more free time than me. The offline video games I enjoy most still present as many challenges today as they did when I first played them. An online game that offers dynamic and interesting play for *every* player would be enough to suck me in...
On second thought, nevermind. I don't get out enough as it is!
LAN Party?
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Did "Guild raid night" also cause them to miss "Divorce Court?"
No, you don't CHOOSE to have diabetes. You CHOOSE to have the Everquest addiction. You CHOSE to play it, and everytime you sit down at your computer and log on you CHOOSE to go online. If you don't like the game, and you don't want to play anymore, cancel your account, uninstall, get rid of the CDs. BAM done. You can't go on anymore. After about a week, you probably wont miss it anymore. If you hate it so much, DON'T do it.
Your metaphor reveals how little you know about illness in the frist place.
SO what I actually read was a long post about this guy's psychological addiction to a video game? not.
People can become addicted to anything, I understand. In fact, I think this is a great way for Sony to make money. They are hitting the balance of support vs. suffering just right if this guy posted this huge rant, and then logged in for few more hours of paying to kill pixels.
In fact, most consumerism is based on impulsive and compulsive behavior. Your own company job may rely on it.
mug
All we need here is Liz Wooley and it's a sweet party!
Burzlaff ~ Brell
With a name like Dolalin Bonewielder, is it any surprise that the author's left "holding his member" as he puts it?
to slaving at a capital-driven game that you hate is to make something better yourself.
Hello? We are still here on Slashdot, correct? Ok, just checking.
A good place to start might be something like the Worldforge project: www.worldforge.org
There's more than enough injustice in real life, and you're wasting your time whining about this?!?!
Anyone with common sense already knows all of what was mentioned above when it comes to subscription games and the companies that run them. The same comparisons can be made to other subscription services. The same corporate mentality is common.
I think that this article is just an example of an addictive personality (and it's painful to read, as well. This is a very sad person). I have played UO and the new Camelot game and never got into them this much. To me, they were games, and after a few months they got old and I quit. The company that runs the Camelot game sent me a free month's voucher, so I am playing for another month. Besides, my new mainboard and CPU aren't here yet, so I can't do any worthwhile FPS.
Sounds like great alternatives. I hope they perfect the idea of Pay To Play games to everyone is happy.
However, this doesn't address the concept of gaming addiction. Combined with the "PayToPlay" online game issue, we'll always have these whiners.
When I bought Thief II, I knew it was a hugely addictive sequel to Thief and accepted the issue. After finishing, I went back to other segments of life happy to have spent the time. All things in moderation.
A fountain-of-youth quest would offset automatically expiring (dying) players. Alternatively, you could have "rebirths" to a different/better character.
science is a religion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I played EQ for about 2 years.
It took me 6 months of not playing to even concider hitting that big shiney 'cancel' button on my account. Why?
Everquest lures you in and yes, there are great time-sinks in the game. But.. just as soon as you finish and grumble your way through such a long endeavor, you're hooked. If you spend 8 hours sitting in one spot just to kill some guy for what he drops, then you've just invested 8 hard-earned hours for that item.
Suddenly, you have 8 hours of time invested in the character. Quiting would be throwing that all away. Me? I had a character that I had spent two years building up to a point of excellence. As long as I kept paying my money, whether I played or not, my character and all my hard work was saved on their server.
After getting tired of doing the same thing over and over and over again, having to constantly buy expansion packs, and getting tired of the lack of customer support, I canceled my account. I said 'bye' to that character.
Now, the current scuttlebutt is that if you just 'cancel' your account, they wont delete your characters until your account has been closed for 6 months. The lure to re-instate my account exists.. knowing that I could come back at any time and pick up where I left off. Insidious.
But.. I'm done. As soon as I start feeling the urge to play again, I remind myself of exactly why I quit.
Everquest isn't as much a game as an investment. You put forth your time, money, and patience.. and all you get back is the ability to put forth more of your time, money, and patience so you continue to do so. Thats the 'addiction'..
Everquest would be... well probably about the same, actually.
My sister hassles me so she can play Kingdom Hearts for hours at a time. If she discovers EQ, she's gone.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Other changes can render a class' or items' abilities weaker, slower, or even drastically altered or removed from the game. Again, the players have no say in the matter officially, and rarely get these changes reversed through massive online signature petitions. It is quite common now for these sorts of changes to come completely unannounced and unexplained, leaving the players themselves to bug test, figure out what happened, what is wrong, and leaving them again to wander off to the Dev Board asking what the purpose of the change was. ...
The bottom line being, you can go to bed one night with a great character and items, and wake up in the morning to find all that has changed; leaving you holding your member and your opinions mattering less than a pig's squeals in a slaughterhouse.
[Note: I don't work for Sony, nor do I play Everquest]
In defense of Sony...
I code on a MUD, and we have to deal with the same thing fairly often. The point that a lot of players don't realize or don't accept is that a lot of times, these kind of changes are necessary for long-term play balance. If your equipment gets "nerfed", or your numbers aren't as high after the change, well, sorry, but sux 2 B U. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. What usually happens is that someone introduces an item or a command that seems OK at the time, but due to not-enough playtesting, or as a consequence of other, later changes, it turns out the item is too "powerful" to the point that it unbalances the game. When that happens, problem has to be addressed. If that screws over 30% of the players in favor of the other 70%, so be it.
Now, to attack Sony...
Players aren't paying $12.95 a month to play our MUD, so we can afford to be a little lax. If you're a professional company, you ought to be expected to playtest stuff extensively for the long-term before releasing it to the wild. Also, we try to post to the public bulletin boards before any major changes are made so that players can comment or suggest possible alternatives.
So yes, I can understand how and why it happens in Everquest, but I think it shouldn't, and it sounds like they handle it badly.
This guy is so full of shit. What you have here the usual, blame everyone else instead of me syndrome. Ooooo EQ is so addicting ... I had to choice but to play 10 hours a day and lose my job/gf/wife in real life!
They forced me to pay $12.95! Smedley came to my house jammed a gun in my nose and said '12.95' right now!
I've played EQ since release and most of my friends do as well. We play casually, and we always have fun. This guy is just another loser who fucked things up by overdoing something. Dont blame EQ blame him for having zero willpower, or even enough intelligence to tell fun from not fun. Slashdot posts this type of ultra-whine on thier front page? Pretty sad, must be scraping for content.
It may not be easy, but is possible. I've beat EQ addiction, quit a 13 year smoking habit, overcome other problems and tried to keep from falling back into old habits. Take responsibility for your own decisions.
While there obviously are people that feel like this there are still quiet a few folks that think the game IS fun if played correctly. Instead of spinning your wheels trying to WIN, why don't you get a team together and go do something you all have never done before. Dont' rely on the strength of a huge guild all the time. Get out, explore and don't take things so seriously. I for one have a lot of respect for Sony/Verant for dishing up the best game I have ever played.
sure, if you log 12 hours a day I can see why you might get upset, and its sad that some peoople do, but frankly i've played for a semester, logged somthing like 12 a week, and sure, i might not be UBER like some folks, but i still have fun playing the game, and isn't it just like the great slashdot crowd to bash on somthing just for the sake of fitting in. Oh, by the way, i run EVERQUEST in WINDOWS. know why? I can, I want to, and I feel like it. Has anyone compared how EQ people call the best of the best UBER and you slashdotteers call them 1337? At least in EQ we don't make up silly laungagues out of numbers. And if there are a few folks happy with what they are doing, weather that be playing a game you don't like, or running an operating system you don't like, how about maybe once just keeping your mouth shut and not insulting them to coax your ego and make yourself feel real smart? by the way, I dual boot windows and linux, i use linux for what it does better than windows, and i use windows for what it does better than linux.
So what you're saying is that you're a loser, and you want to make sure that we all realize everything is subjective and that thrill you get while doing something that requires not skill, but time, is as lofty a persuit as being a chess grandmaster? Ok!
As someone who has played EQ on and off since it started, I can understand some of the complaints stated. But you know what? If you don't like it, quit. When I'm tired of playing EQ, I take a break from it. It may be a few hours, a couple days, or even a few months, until I feel like I want another go at it. Bottom line is that this is game, and if it ain't fun, why are you playing?
BTW... I find that playing on one server, Firiona Vie (the role-playing friendly server) tends to make the game much more enjoyable. Not nearly as much whining and crying, not nearly so many uber, power-leveling idiots who think the whole point of the game is to "win". Generally, people on this particular server are out to have fun... which is the whole point of any game, isn't it?
I thought this service was free! - I being someone who couldn't care less about everquest and sure didn't care enough about it to find out:
You guys actually take part in the game by paying a continual monthly fee?
You are the stupidest fools in the entire world, and deserve to be ass-raped through your wallets. You damn well deserve to have that service change for the worse for the players, such is the nature of online stupidity exercises.
Imagine if you spent all your time and $12.95 on something else just a fraction less useless...
--"The perfect example of the man of action is the suicide." - William Carlos Williams
It's actually fun, there's a good array of different gameplay options for different playing preferences (not only in characters, but the normal Realm vs. Realm servers, the Coop server, the PVP servers... fun for the whole family).
Plus Mythic is much more responsive to their user base.
Quite a bit of whining about character classes being nerfed all the time, but I doubt you get away from that in any given MMORPG (this coming from my personal experience with my primary character being a Ranger that supposedly got nerfed quite a bit from its starting point... I enjoy it well enough...).
Plus, realm vs. realm is just a buncha fun.
What he's talking about is very real. I've seen it over and over after playing for some 10 months now.
However, when you consider the context of what EQ is. A simulation of a fantasy life. You don't tend to have things like GM's walking around putting right what in the real world would be considered land grabbing.
Any time you play someone else's game. They are the one's with the power to say what is fair and what isn't. What was by design and what was an overlooked loophole. In the real world when there's a flaw in software that people take advantage of, programmers work to button it up. Sometimes the fix works, sometimes it creates new problems. This fantasy roleplaying world is and will be for many generations to come, a work in progress.
Addiction to this game isn't that much different from being addicted to alcohol, or football for that matter. Rules change, players go on strike etc. Everquest was designed to be as much an alternate reality as could be managed with the technology they had back when it started in 1999.
Your gripe about how many GM's are around and how they are used has a point in that they are cutting back. But generally speaking I've found their support amazing for having 80-100K players milling about at any one time. And when there is a server crash. They do what they can to put things right. I know I appreciate what they can do and for what they can't. I know it's the price of being in a alternate reality that I've chosen to invest my time in.
For those who haven't yet quite glimpsed what EQ is in general. It's a non-linear fantasy roleplay adventure. It has all the classic game play. From Galaxian to Dungeons and Dragons. All in a rasterized 3D world.
Originally EQ was intended to provide entertainment.
In the real world it generates money for some. Thanks to the auctioning of characters, equipment etc for real money which many people still do. Dozens of sites claiming that you can make EQ your full time employment and pay the bills etc.
For the vast majority however it's a way to be social and experience challenge and reward. With a suitable failure here and there, just to help you rethink other ways you could have solved the task or quest.
EQ has many facets that can appeal to a broad range of people. This is why it broke into the black, business wise years before they expected it to.
It does suck that whole aspects of game play can be changed at their discression. But if you forget that you're playing someone elses game. That's when you're letting yourself get setup for frustration and disappointment.
First and foremost Everquest is a business. How greedy they decided to become probably has not been seen yet or guessed at even. They certainly work their patrons and reward them enough to get them to fork over for another upgrade/installment.
Paying $50.00 per character move from 1 server to another should you decide you'd rather change it. Mind you even at $50.00 you only get to move your toon/character. You don't get to keep all the goodies you earned/bought/killed for.
Stack another $50.00 per character you want to change their name on.
The way they charge for even trivial things is pretty impressive. Specially when you consider what work it really is for them. Pretty much nada.
However the value they provide can only be considered by the person who plays the game. For me I enjoy it when I've nothing better to do. I have at times found myself in mad gaming spree's trying to get that next level and get that next spell or skill. It's a pretty large exercise wheel that I haven't found a good way to hop off of, except for the times I decide I'm just going to wander around, explore and Buff (use spells to enhance characters) I run across. Sometimes I just like being a guardian angel or good samaritain.
From how you have described your gripes about the game, I'd have to say you've been in a state of ambition where you want to be the best which is pretty much impossible in the game. Because someone, somewhere is going to have a better tactic, better item or better luck that you will.
Ok I'm done rambling. Missed alot of things. This message will probably get nerf'd but I do contribute.Many moons ago I played EQ (when I quit the WTC was still standing), and once had to do the Testament of Vanear quest. The quest is to get a book that is really great for clerics and druids (i.e. healer types). One part involves waiting for a certain rare MOB (moving object) to spawn. Basically this guy appears, and you have to kill him. He's such a pain to get that people OFTEN try to kill-steal him (i.e. kill him before you can), so like most people I called in guild members to ensure that I got the kill. How long did it take? Let me put it this way: I went to the appropriate place, called in my guild buddies, and then WATCHED AN ENTIRE THREE-PERIOD HOCKEY GAME while waiting for the guy to appear. About a half hour after the game was over, POP, there he was, and we killed him in 30 seconds. The mob has an EIGHT-HOUR SPAWN TIME. That means, once he's dead, he doesn't reappear for another eight hours (REAL TIME). That's what we EQ players mean by needless timesinks. The sole purpose is to waste your time so you play longer.
I eventually quit the game, when it got to the point that raids were lasting until AFTER SUNRISE. That was well over a year ago, and I haven't been back. My character is dead, may it rest in peace.
and everything else as well. I mean, this guy was a *serious* drug user. If you could swallow it, shoot it up or inhale it, he did it. All the time.
Hell, he's even mentioned in at least one book as a case study.
He's been clean and sober for 25 years now. for the last 20 of those he's been a full time substance abuse counseller. He likes to play a game with people. He asks them their drug of choice. From that he can do a pretty good analysis of the person's personality, even he's never met them before.
I once asked him why people get drunk. I don't get it, I really don't. Everything about being drunk is unpleasant to me. Even being under the influence I find unpleasant. So how can someone be so addicted to this that they'll throw away everything to wake up in a gutter in a pool of their own vomit and immediately go looking for a drink?
He looked at me and said, "Ah, that's because *you're* not an alcoholic."
The point being that by my *personality* alcohol has no positive virtue to me. To the alcoholic it *does.* To an alcoholic *alcohol* is like heaven. Heroin may well be quite detestable to that person because the "high" of heroin isn't the "high" that, ummmm, gets them high. The alcoholic doesn't *want* "high" per se. He wants to be numb, or dance around with a lamp shade on his head and beat his wife and try to avoid repercussion by saying, "Hey, I was drunk."
The pothead, conversely is the *sort* of person who wants to sit quietly in the corner saying, "Oh, wow man."
Your friend was the *sort* of person for whom the heroin high is heaven. There are, in fact, many, many casual users of heroin for whom it's pleasant, but not "heaven."
I find it telling that the writer of the article mentioned casinos. That's what the EQ "junkies" ARE doing. It's the same obsessive compulsive behaviour that a gambling "addict" experiences. Neither gambling nor EQ are drugs. There is no *actual* physiological componant to the behaviour as there is with heroin. Any "withdrawl" is purely psychosomatic.
So why don't these people just up and quit?
Because they have the sort of personality that, even while they are experiencing distress, in some way are getting more positive feedback from playing than negative.
They "want" the experience they are having, whether they realize it or not. It's their "heaven."
Take a page from the "Big Book." The first step to overcoming the problem is admiting there's a problem. What's more, the problem isn't the "game," it's you, and *you* have to take responsibility for it. If you find you are powerless against it then *get help.*
Which is what the article is, really. Not a warning, but a plea for help. Public therapy is never pretty. Find a good specialist in obsessive compulsive behaviour and get help.
KFG
Have to agree on this one. If it's a problem, kick the habit... and I think we should distinguish between things that are habit forming and things that are actually addictive here. Caffeine, nicotine, cocaine, and many other drugs are addictive. If you wait too long in between uses you feel sick-- often resulting in headaches, nauseau, exhaustion, etc.
Other things are habit-forming, like smoking (apart from the nicotine itself), masturbating, chewing your nails, playing video games online, chatting on IRC, over-eating or whatever it might be. Habits can be quit without obvious physical side-effect. What you find when you try to stop a habit cold-turkey is much different than what happens with an addiction. You might feel listless, bored, depressed, or any number of things, but these are not physical symptoms.
In this case, as habits/hobbies go, EQ doesn't sound so bad, except that like most overdone habits, it can be depressing to not know what else to do with your time or to feel like that habit has too much control over your life... but on a purely financial basis, EQ sounds like a bargain. $50 for the box game and under $20 for a monthly sub that can easily eat up all my free time? The only thing cheaper is meditation or prayer-- and then only if you don't actually join a temple or church. Oh, and chess via FICS. And there's no Sony involved there.
I do not have a signature
12 hours clearing yard trash? Either your guild is incompetently clearing through Vex Thal and missing the 4-6 boss mobs you should be getting during that time frame, or you're not raiding in the true high end game.
Most raid days are under 8 hours, and usually involve 2-4 boss mob kills during that time... and a good chunk of that time is spent moving from zone to zone and/or finding targets to kill.
Spawn time problems are also addressed inaccurately, since Verant added in random spawn timers. Important mobs now spawn 0-24 hours after patch/server reset/crash. Euro guilds are favored any time they forget to randomize these timers, but most of them have already been randomized. Granted, EQs RNG system needs a bit of work (it's very very very streaky, they really need more entropy sources), but it still leaves things out of the Euro time window often enough.
The main reasons people grow to hate the game are:
1.) Timesinks (Vex Thal key, Planes of Power zone flags)
2.) Yard trash mobs (Vex Thal being the worst zone for this-- but still has a lot of boss mobs to at least make it mostly worth it).
3.) Player disputes.
4.) Customer (dis)service.
5.) Developer (mis)communication.
6.) Game (bugs) fixes.
Jasmeralia Sorrowmist
62 Paladin
The Companions Guild (Webmaster)
The Tribunal Server (Webmaster)
If you're paying with a credit card: Notify the card company that you have attempted to cancel your account numerous times, and that the charges are not authorized. Try to get them to reverse the past charges (which may or may not work), but definitely tell them to not allow any more charges from Everquest. I am almost positive they will stop allowing EQ to charge the card. That should do it..
First of all, I will have to say that I have never been a fan of RPGs and never will; the time required to play is enormous and you can never get it back. Why would I waste my youth and health on such a fruitless activity? Don't misconstrue me though, I am a gamer and have been for a long time, but RPGs give the smallest returns of any game as well as requiring the most time. At least games like quake and warcraft develop skills like coordination and strategy even within the time one allows for any such recreational activities like watching movies or doing something unproductive but enjoyable.
Aside from those subjective points, however, I must come forth as an advocate for accepting personal responsibility. The first two paragraphs made me very angry and realize how bad things have become in America these days; people are quick to blame someone else for their own problems. The game only becomes a chore or a job if you, the free individual, let it. It only absorbs your time if you let it. Some people play it a lot and have fun with it without making it a hastle. Don't ever let your computer make you its slave, that goes against its purpose, and don't redirect blame where it does not belong.
Additionally, don't be so cynical. Do you honestly think that the creators of EverQuest do it only for money? I sincerely hope not, because such cynicism will blind your way to any truth. These guys are doing something that they enjoy and need a way to support it financially. Putting up servers for their many many thousands of customers is not free and constantly updating and supporting their software is not either. This should also be true for the players as I have stated. Such attempts to make EverQuest creators look purely evil are foolish and childish. They serve to hurt your credibility and cripple any important points you might have had.
So, not only is the author saying my friends are lying to me about EQ...he says this is the usual situation with my friends? That's rather presumptuous of the author!
Diabetes and EQ are different? Fair enough.
I admit it's not really a good metaphor. What I was trying to get at is that quitting a psychological addiction through willpower alone may be more like trying to cure diabetes through willpower alone than it is like not jaywalking through willpower alone.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Has anyone here ever heard of Anarchy Online? A great concept. You're given the game....if you'll pay the $10/month. I think it definitely has potential, especially as a marketing strategy for MMORPGS in the future....
-\|/-\|/- If its not 1200 baud, its crap....
You're absolutely right that diabetes isn't like psychological addiction in a large number of very important ways.
What I was attempting to argue (very poorly, I admit), was that psychological addictions may be very difficult to resolve, and not susceptible to willpower alone--that telling someone to "just get over it" may be just as silly when you're talking about a psychological addiction as it is when you're talking about diabetes.
My sincere apologies to any diabetics. I'm not trying to trivialize that condition at all, and I'm very sorry if I've caused offense.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
This sounds a lot like you're talking about someone you're dating. "Walking away ... at that point would be difficult, because then it would feel like all those hours (or weeks, months, years) were wasted."
I know several people who have stayed in doomed relationships for this very reason.
--------- Steve Martin once said, "Sex is the most natural, most beautiful, most wonderful thing that money can buy."
... what's this doing on Slashdot in the first place?
Just yet another rant that should be on IGN's EQ forum or something...
thats it in a nutshell.
So are you saying this is:
(a) Another safe haven for the technocratic elite?
(b) You're just making an excuse for wasted money?
It's understandable that people with no social skills would try and pass off hours of sitting in front of a computer as a skill. I suppose IRC is a skill too.
The author also greatly overstates the problem of expansions not being finished at release. Sure, the very high end zones of new expansions have sometimes been unfinished, but only a very small number of guilds are powerful enough to reach those before they are finished.
Sure, EQ has plenty of problems, but mostly the author is just whining pointlessly. Take the switch to a GM pool instead of per-server GMs. For everyone I've heard complain, I've heard someone else praise it as decreasing response time (ever need a GM when your server GM was off duty under the old system?)
The appeal of one of the old, one-player games like "Ultima IV" was that the world revolved around you. Who wants to be a hero in a world of 6,000,000 people who think they're the most important hero? I want everyone calling me "Avatar."
Right now, EQ is full of people who share a lack of will power as well as any ability to recognize patterns and deduct the mid and long term results of their actions. Therefore, you end up with an actively apothetic (yet verbally passionate) group of sheep that will often admit they play this game "because nothing better is around" or "they have so much time invested in it." Maybe its just me, but when I spend my time and money on a game I do so out of a desire to entertain myself and escape. If I find it is neither entertaining or facilitating my espapism (is that really a word?) then I will surely question why I am spending time and money on it.
Then I will realize how this attitude of silent defeat will only serve to continue the very thing(s) that I do not like about said game. "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing"... indeed. The more I think, the more I realize about this situation and how I have control over my part. For example, I am not seeking to "punish" anyone but merely casting my economic vote into the pool of desires, complaints and comments. If enough people leave then the hint will be noticed. However, what is more important is that this hint will also translate into the chance for changes in other games. The other benefit of this is that the "old game" that no one seems to like, yet everyone plays (but in my hypothetical situation, many have indeed stopped playing) will continue to satisfy those who enjoy it. See how these three parts work together? Imagine if Baskin Robbins decided to only carry two flavors of ice cream yet in 31 different combinations of colors. Would they stay in business... maybe. However their very appeal for 31 flavors would be lost to mass acceptance. The only way you affect a change here is to stop buying those clones. Go somewhere else or for God's sake show a little backbone and go without! Eventually Baskin Robbins will notice and start adding some variety and/or you will find other ice cream shops opening up with different flavors to offer to you. Your money acts as a vote of approval... nothing more.
I am in favor of two things with the MMOG gaming market. First, I would like to see everyone get the game that they want... but definitely NOT in the same game nor any cloned version of it. I am in favor of niches which will be pursued with reckless abandon by game producers in order to give real choice. Second, I am in favor of these niches focusing on what they do WELL. Don't try to be everything to everyone as you will only end up watering down each part.
The problem with this is that it is not economically viable at this point in time. The reason is that these companies will not push away current or potential customers by tightening their "market focus" if they can make all this money with the multitude of watered down crap out there now. They will continue to pump out these clones merely applying different coats of paint to each one... and it is WORKING! Only until the market is full of varying (by a large degree) games will this begin to go away... and only when there is a magical threshold of many of the same types of games to compete will this take place. Since this has not happened yet then the best you can do is wait (unless you want to help develop them). So, it comes down to math after all. I would find it hard to convince CEO I.M. Suit of the need to refine his game if that refinement will alienate a significant portion of his current customers and thus income. This is the classic problem of competition that frankly many in the IT industry do not understand (thus you end up with idiots for managers but that is a different subject). However, I will find it much easier to convince that same CEO of the need to refine and focus his product if I show how that uniqueness is desired by many and has yet to be met within a market nearly saturated by clones. Remember that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. New game devlopers (MMOG) would be wise IMHO to focus on long term loyalty and growth. That will mean giving up those things that look good on paper simply because, "UO, DAOC and EQ did it and it worked great." Eventually someone will indeed come out with a trully unique game that will blow yours and other games out of the water. Sadly, what you will see soon afterwards will be the typical Suit mentality of mimicking that change without understanding what the change fully entails. So you will once again have a market full of more clones... there are very few entrepeneurs in the business world today but those that are in positions to make a change will reap the greatest rewards of all. The policy repeating parrots in suits will simply find a nice marketroid press release to give while following in the footsteps of those visionaries. That is because they fail to see the difference in fads and trends, not to mention the difference between novelty and customer satisfaction.
So, in the end you can vote with your money or just bitch and moan. Short of actually developing your own, there are no realistic options available. I do not believe it is right to change an existing game to adapt to you... but feel it is perfectly acceptable to force each game to be unique enough to attract the right people to adapt to them. This however will never happen with companies like EA and Verant whom are only progressive in the sense that they aggressively market and promote their varios clones. The thing they are banking on is the "paint" of these games. A little bit of different art here, a little bit of different animation there and in between some different names and sequences of skills, moves and items. This is why skills are handled by the antiquated "levels" or linear skill sets. Star Wars: Galaxies will be banking on the name/theme of Star Wars but shows little change or uniqueness at this time.
This could go into another rant about hopes vs. producer dicated implements but I will stop there, thankfully :)
"You might feel listless, bored, depressed, or any number of things, but these are not physical symptoms." I think you may want to ask a doctor about this. You obviously don't know what your talking about.
--------- Steve Martin once said, "Sex is the most natural, most beautiful, most wonderful thing that money can buy."
EverQuest offers a flat monthly rate. Some people pay something like $10 an hour for this, because they only play a couple hours a month. Some people are logged in sixteen hours a day. From an entertainment point of view, the people who are 'addicted to the game' are actually getting more value for their money. Read that again. Addicted to EverQuest: Hopeless gamer, or thifty shopper?>
I think a flat monthly rate actually increases addiction. If you had to pay by the hour for connect time you would force people to ask themselves whether the last 10 hours they just spent online was really worth what they paid for it.
A flat rate encourages people to play more so they get "more" for their money.
other. Believe me, I'd rather have warm arms around me than an item in EQ anyday.
Ummm
value (just like in the game) sooo next time you have to buy them an even bigger/nicer diamond (or something)! LOL - EQ sure is a LOT cheaper now that I think about it!
evercrack has all of those things you were trying to escape from, but couldn't. greed, tyranny, impotence (not sexual) and all of the other bad things that computers never do to people, but people do to people. and yes, those developers, support people and gamers are made up of people, just like me and (perhaps) you.
So, your escape dreamworld isn't working out for you? Try starcrack, its simple, quick and painless. Battle.net is free, u can get off it quick (down to ten hours a week, easy), and the backstabbing is only a loss.
grant
on the Bnet {mv}kraksmoka
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
at least at the end of it all, we'll be able to shoot the tyrants. Can't say that for EQ and Sony! :D
I check this bloody site more often than I talk to my wife. It's not fun, believe me.
Everquest has ruined my p&p rpging life... There was a time I could sit down with some buddies and some drinks and have a really INTERESTING rping session, now they're all wired into everquest (or successful professionals =/ )
Everquest requires so little imagination that you might as well not even be there (and as the author pointed out, experienced players often aren't)
I say get back to pen and paper - free expansions, no loading time, and while you have to think a bit, get your imagination going... it's well worth it.
Exactly. I'm a huge RPG player and when I picked up this old game called Daggerfall I was happily surprised at the way a character advances. The graphics sucked but Morrowind fixed that. Sure you can jump around all day and be good at jumping, but it's more intelligent than that. I hate levels and the idea that "the more you do something, the better you are at it" is a good one. Just thought i'd agree with you on that point.
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
How is this rant any different from the rants on EQVault circa 1999? Same shit, different year. But here you are almost THREE YEARS LATER ranting about the same stuff most of us already quit playing over long long ago.
i dunno, i kinda got the feeling from the article that he *had* quit & just wanted to warn others before they jump in.
Good move on his part, this game is simply awful & will ruin your life if your not careful.
If you're such a loser that you: (a) spend your whole life playing a video game and then (b) bitch about how it's ruined your life and (c) how much it sucks, you have serious problems that go farrr deeper than shown here.
People who aren't having fun are the ones who ruin it for the rest of us on MMORPGs.
If you are 'addicted' and no longer having fun, perhaps its time for a break????
These are the people who ruin it for those of us who just want to get on and have fun, keeping in mind that it IS a game, and NOT work.
It is fictional, and the people who get all worked up about the fictional items are idiots.
Unfortunately, the game producers DO listen to player complaints along these lines, and that is why Ultima Online got all pussied out way back in 1998, so there was no more PvP battles.
Only the people you describe plodding along for the next level remain.
Well, you won, and now you are complaining... LOL
Yeah Everquest sucks, always did, always will.
That is why I am looking forward to Shadowbane.
Dsanfte is Right on about game companies not wanting to assist gamers about various issues.
I'll provide two examples as well, Two good and one bad.
I've never played Everquest so I can't comment on what this person is going through but I can comment on the following games:
No One Lives Forever 2
007: Nightfire
Day of Defeat - a Killer World War II Half-Life Mod
Both of these games have a predecessor that have had sucess in it's previous incarnations.
The 007 Games have had a standard to live up to ever since the console game 'Goldeneye' was released. This game gained it's popularity with the awesome multiplayer aspects on the console. IMO this was the predecessor to all the on-line console games that are out now.
No One Lives Forever 1 (NOLF1) was an amazing game with a multiplayer aspect that immensely enhanced the single player game and was the major reason that this game won all the awards that it did. (Running over people with Snowmobiles is sooo fun)
When NOLF2 was released the reviews on the single player was favorable but nothing was said about the multiplayer aspect. I began researching this game for a possible purchase and began vewing the Sierra Forums and noted Two problems:
1) All MP aspects that made NOLF1 a great game, was removed for a 'co-op' multiplayer version. The 'Co-Op' version was essentially teams of online players playing against an AI Opponent.
2) The MP code was buggy. People were complaining of too many dropped packets.
Sierra'sattitude for #1 was initally "If you don't like it go buy another game that has on-line player vs online player this is not what this game is about". (These threads have since mysteriously disappeared)
After player after player were complaining about the lack of the cool MP aspects that made NOLF1 famous and the fact that people were mad that couldn't return the game (they were all expecting the same MP aspects of NOLF1 in NOLF2), news came out that a new patch would be coming out to add DM maps and better MP code.
Needles to say this alienated players and left sour tastes in peoples stomach. This reason alone and Sierra's initial atitude/response to this issue are the reason why I didn't buy this game and I laugh when it received Game of the Year Award by Adspy..er GameSpy.
007: Nightfire is EA/Gearbox's entry into the James Bond Game arena. This game is based on the Half-Life engine and has an original storyline. The Single player is amazing and has all the cool elements of a Bond Flick. The Multiplayer blew me away by the maps and mods it released. (Imagine a CTF/DM map that is a near perfect recreation of the Fort Knox Scene in 'Goldfinger'.)
Granted, when this product was initially released, there were issues with the game (MP Exploit, No Server manual, No MP manual for N00bs who don't understand the concept of Team-Killing). EA/Gearbox provided two methods to give feedback about this game (EA - E-mail and Gearbox Via their forums) and they (after about amonth of the PC version being released) are releasing a SP 'after the new year'.
In addition, with immense interest in Modding for this game (our clan is looking into creating MP maps that are recreations scenes in Bond Movies. We're looking to create maps for all the Bond Movies.), There will be a SDK released after the New Year as well.
Day of Defeat is probably the best Mod I've ever played in MP (not a big counter-strike fan). In short, this is a World War II mod with the Axis versus the Allies in various map situations. The weapon Recreation, maps and the general popularity is slowly growing every day. I beleive one of the main reasons why this is is that The Day of Defeat MOD team has a direct link to the public through their forums and are looking for contunuous feedback on how this game can be improved.
I will always be a fan of this MOD because of the direct link to the developers.
My advice to anyone who have problems with various games is to browse/Post to the game designers forums or e-mail the company with your concerns, more often than not the various companies will listen to the customers for they are the people who will come back tothe various companies for their next release of a given game.
Granted, you may not always find forums with direct link to the developersfor Games (ID Software is a good example of this) but if you do, utilize these resources.
My advice to Game companies is to listen to your customer base and give them a foum to give feedback for they pay your salaries and they dictate wether or not your game will continue to sell.
Issues with games are easy to fix, runied reputataions over a given game are next to impossible to fix.
Dolemite
Save the World! Use a Quote!
Biggest supprice of EQ was that I raninto this other player, a girl living half around the world from me. Only I didnt know that she did, before I admited to myself that it was something special about her, something I never seen before and that I loved her. I stopped playing EQ now, she has to, only problem is that we still live on diffrent sides of earth. This is a huge problem seens she has her life there, and I have mine here. It has almost gone 3 years seens we bumped into eachother, and I cant thank EverQuest enought..
YAY! Finally someone who sees me for what I truly am!
*heads back to the Tannan oven*
Something along these lines already happend. Despair and google up the name Shawn Woolley
Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break. I feel about as sorry for cigarette smokers.
I played it, it wasn't fun. So you know what? I quit. This article, while it has some valid points, is mainly just whiny. This guy is pissed that EQ is not the game he wanted it to be. Fine, so I was I so I did the capatalist thing, voted with my dollars, and stopped paying them. I play a different MMORPG now, that I like a whole lot more.
However, just because I don't like EQ, doesn't mean that all epopel don't like it. Most of the guys I work with play EQ. Some of them have been playing it since it went out of beta (that's over 3 years). All, however, are casual players. They play the game when they want to, and have fun doing it. They enjoy it and it is worth their money. Well, more power to them, I'm not going to tell them there are wrong in having fun playing EQ.
If you like a given online game, and you find that it is worth the money, then by all means play it to your heart's content. However, if it isn't fun, quit playing. Games are for amusement, and what is amusing varies from person to person. If you find a given game, online or offline, unamusing and no fun, just don't play it. Simple solution.
I hate people in online games that whine about how much the game sucks and how much they hate it, yet won't stop playing. If you don't like it, don't play it. If enough people quit playing, they'll go out of bussiness.
This reads like a rant written by someone that has just realised they have watsed 100's or 1,000's ona useless waste of their time - when they could instead have been inventing something cool or more likely just veg'ing in front of the TV.
So Sony are in it for the cash and the customer service sucks. That's not a breakthough, it's reality...which I guess is something you've been missing out on while playing a mind bogglingly dull online game. You paid, others will continue to pay, they are happy and so are Sony.
I think you just spent too much time playing this game. Get alife. If the game is so bad, then stop playing it. Much better, learn how to program in a languaje like java and create something better.
Prorbably the product sucks, but reading your post makes me wonder why people waste their time in stupid activities instead of getting out and meeting "real" people.
Again, get a life.
JV.
Sounds like someone got bored of the game and decided because they didn't like it any more that nobody should and they were stupid too. Why has this article even been posted? Many, Many people think it's a great game.
Sig is taking a break!
Gee, I hate to be a buzzkill on the whine party (would you like some cheese with that?) but I think this guy is complaining just a wee too much. The thing that I enjoyed most about Everquest was
the MMO aspect (massively multiplayer online). The game itself is only roughly mediocre (though quite a lot of that is offset by the sheer size of it), but the experience can be quite enjoyable. The most fun I ever had came about through making friends in the game, playing with those friends, and interacting with other people. The "reward" for playing for me was not gathering phat lewt and uber-levels but meeting new people, earning a good reputation, and above all having fun with other people. If you're an anti-social cave dweller (and I suspect this guy is) then the MMO, and the entire fundamental design of the game, is completely wasted on you, you might as well go play Morrowind and save your 13 bucks a month.
I see it clearly.
You're a loser.
Look to someone other than Sony to provide you with a life.
Moron.
Earth. It's where we both live.
There are things that are fun, things that are boring, things that are fair, things that are rigged.
A company puts out a game designed to make them money.
Is it any surprise when they tinker with the formula, trying to increase their take?
C'mon!
It's how things are done.
Quitcher bitchin' and find another way to spend your time and money.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
n/t
I was in the beta test 2 and 3 for EQOA for the PS2.
Stay away from it. Its a stripped down version of EQ, and is just another milk-the-customer way of making money.
Hey. Honestly. After reading this post I'm surprised. What is stated in this rolling tirade is one persons misery and not the general populus's experiance. What EQ is, is a playground where you dont have to worry about getting pushed down just because your short. It is a game pure and simple and forgetting this fact in any way is not the company who makes the "game"'s fault. Nobody is to blame but yourself. This game has been running pretty good but every time a technical glich occures (it happens. It is man made after all), We get to listen to people like this who forget all the good times they had. This game isnt full of people who want to "win" above all else and it certainly is not the "evil" corporate ignorance spouted in the farce this tirade shows. Plane and simple we are all responsible for our own futures and our own lives. Everquest is nothing more than a game with alot of other people who play it. In my experiance the coolness of this game is the willingness for people to reach out and help others with no benefit to themselves other than knowing you helped someone. Winning? How can you win a game that never ends. There is however a dark side to Everquest. If you at any time forget that your playing a game or ignore the pleas of the people who exist in your Real Life then you will do as I did once. You will loose those that are dear to you and one day wake up with an email telling you how damn stupid you realy are. The key however is not to abstain. This is yet another form of giving in and believing the ugly beast is some dumb arse game that got the best of you. Make a decision play or not to make the people who exist in real life take precidence over your gaming. In my experiance if I am in a game or planning something, and a friend or my own fiance wants to spend time with me. The people who are my friends in the game understand and give me no guff when my absence is felt. The game is about that. Having fun, if you cant have fun playing a game then your a) playing the wrong game or b) not suited to playing games at all. I worn you to be wary of this adventure but not let it ruin your desire to try it. Just never loose the understanding that your real life is more important and should always take precidence. Any time you blame some company or service you buy for your own mistakes or lack of strength, then your just passing the ignorance on without reguard to the damage it can do. Everquest players have a life because most of them realize it is just a game. Rauq Waylander of Brells Serrillis and realy silly dude.
Online games shouldn't have massive amounts of people. I can go to six flags, or the mall if I want to be up to my elbows in people. I don't want to stand in line for an hour to kill (insert monster name here). Give me a server with less than a hundred slots available for a single world and a buddy list, and I'll be happy. Of course you'll need quite a few more servers, but encounters with other players will not be similiar to how well we react with each other on the highway during gridlock. You can make friends, enemies, and form guilds without triping over each other constantly.
SWG is looking more promising since they actually have factions and PvP action. Instead of chasing after the same monster all the time and having everyone camp on spawn points you can go after the other players and actually have some wars.
World of Warcraft looks very nice. If only they were using the Doom3 engine...mmmmmm. I never played EQ since I don't have time, but I would look at WOW and perhaps Star Wars Galaxies (only if the latter included a combat mode and the ability to fly to different planets; imagine a massive multiplayer online RPG + space combat in a full virtual universe!).
Depends on whether or not any of the people you're playing with are female. Then the probability is roughly equal to that of any other real-life social interaction. It is greater than the probability of getting laid via EQ. Unless you count cybersex.
Battlegrounds are Player versus player (PVP) zones that restrict the level of character allowed entry.
I think the reason they are relavant is:
Anyone in a few weeks time can have a character that is reasonably competitive in PVP and have fun bashing real virtual heads in....
I used to play Diablo 2 all day long on battle.net when the game first came out. I drooled over this game for months before it came out and it was kickass for the first few months. It was repetitive once you got to the high levels, but still fun. Then when a new patch came out and took away a lot of the melee combat strength(health/mana leech) against high level enemies, I stopped playing within a day. True that the barbarian was vastly overpowered than the other characters at the time, and I see why they did it, but the game became unfun for me and I stopped.
I bought the expansion pack when that came out and it was slightly better because of the added features, but it was still crap compared to what it used to be.
My advise to the evercrack people is to uninstall the game, burn the game boxes and break the CD's in half.
Everquest is one of the greatest things ever invented. The appeal/addiction is caused by a variety of factors, one of the main being: The game is a challenge. Achieving levels, items, alliances etc is often difficult and succeeding past a daunting challenge gives quite a sense of empowerment. Dark Age Of Camelot however, made the mistake of being too easy, and thus, many players who left EQ, hoping that DOC would be better have come back to EQ because in reality, they love the hardship and frustration. The Game Masters try their best to enforce fair play, which often means telling pathetic, whining, ungrateful, spoiled brats like this clown, "NO! You can't have that thing just because you whine". It is the ups and downs, the wins and the loses, the agony and the ecstasy that make the game addicting. If it weren't for all the factors this whacko is complaining about, he'd have been bored with it looooong ago. He thinks that because he cannot have whatever he wants, that he hates the game, but in reality, that's why he loves it. There is a strong enforcement of the rules. The motto of the game masters is "We don't need your money". They would rather make the game good by enforcing fair play, than cater to Mr. Big Bucks by giving him what he wants. It often seems that, in this world, whenever someone comes up with something really popular, all the whiney old lady temperance whackos complain that it is addicting. Well, life is addicting. If it weren't, you would just lie down and die at the first big challenge. There is hardly any character trait more annoying that ungratefullness. This loser, after spending countless hours in a euphoria of high enjoyment, now whines and bad mouths the people who enabled this for him. Sure, EQ has some problems, a lot of them, but when weighed against its good points, it comes in far ahead of anything else I knkow. Also, Sony gets paid the same amount every month per subscriber. It is in their interest that you NOT be logged on using network resources, however, they have recently added features that give players incentive to stay online for a long time like putting your player up as a "Vendor" where other players can buy from you without your having to manually work the sale and offline chat where you can chat with players in the game, even though you are not logged in with your character. Contrary to this loser's opinion, I think that Sony should be applauded for taking the risk to develop Everquest, knowing in the end, like all good things, they would be criticized and denegraded by the vocal minority of bottom feeders of the human race. Know well, that the silent majority of people who play Everquest love it.
David,
I think you are just completely out of hand on your article. I like to know what you were smoking when you wrote an article like that?
If you truly feel that Sony/Verant is out to get your money and not give you any service or satisfactions, then I don't understand why you would continue to play your character up to level 62. Did Sony/Verant put a gun to your head and made you sign up for an EQ account? I don't think so...you did it to yourself. You are probably too much of a freak to get out to socialize with "real" people so therefore you signed up with EQ to meet people on the game to make up for your lack of social skills.
This is a form of entertainment and if you liked it enough to play the game and paid for it, then you shouldn't whine about it when you decided that the game wasn't designed for your liking or do what you want them to do. Sorry dude, if you feel that the game becomes a source of frustration and anger, then it's time to QUIT the game. It sounds like you got personal problem in RL so you're taking it out on EQ.
Btw, do you know anything about LD and losing connections on EQ? Obviously you don't! If you do, you wouldn't blame LD and drop connections on Sony/Verant. Those kind of problems usually revert back to your ISP or poor quality on your phone line. I have played EQ for about two years and have only experienced a few LDs that was caused by Sony server. How do I verified that it was Sony server? Well...the people within my group were all also LD at the same time I was so therefore it was the server, not my ISP. If you have trouble with LDs and lost connections, then I suggest you change internet provider.
In conclusion, I think you are just as much of a "fool" as every person that plays EQ.
I can't seem to find any sympathy for those enthralled with online gaming. Try not writing Sony that check every month - your withdrawl symptoms won't come close to the stress of trying to quit smoking or kicking hard drugs. Leave your imaginary accomplishments behind and try being something in the real world.
--Gus
About four years ago I was stupid enough to lose control of a classic sportscar on a mountain road and I broke my back. This, as you can imagine, doesn't feel too good. A very competent ambulance crew scraped me up and took me down the mountain. And there I was, lying with a broken back in the back of an ambulance driving quite fast down a twisting, bumpy mountain mountain road thinking that I was probably going to be paralysed for the rest of my life...
And he's right, you know. That very competent ambulence crew shot me full of morphine (which is basically the same stuff as heroin) and I felt absolutely wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. I'm not the least surprised that people get addicted to it.
Oh, yes - thanks at least partly to that very competent ambulance crew and great medical staff at Ayr hospital, I made a full recovery.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Sorry, if you're that weakminded, maybe you deserve what you get.
A chemical addiction, ok, i can see that. But a game. Please.
I love games, i could spend all day playing them, but i don't. I know there are other things i have to do, and other more fun things to do as well.
"No really, it's like punctuation heaven, man!"
And you know this because...?
I have never played EverQuest.
Translation: "Don't tell me all of the negative aspects of the game! Just tell me enough about it for me to decide if it's worth playing or not!
If you want to know what the game is about, read the advertising copy on the box (conveniently, the box also includes screenshots). As far as I can tell, it's basically Dungeons&Dragons, with no other goal than eternal leveling. Like Statbuilder, but with more eyecandy in the UI.Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
This article posits the observation that EQ works via operant conditioning and shaping to guide the user to spending ever increasing amounts of time in pursuit of steadily decreasing rewards.
The real Webmaven is user ID 27463. I don't rate an imposter, because my ID is such a lame-ass high number.
%.|?T disgruntled former players posting here come off sounding like abused wives or escaped kidnapping victims, and the current "addicts" and Sony astroturfers sound like Scientologists and Amway reps.
Obviously, something about the game is seriously fucked up, and exposure to it makes you fucked up, too.
Not knowing anything about this game is evidence that your life is, in this one respect at least, a better life than those who speak here from experience.
Smile.
Your mouth is like Columbus Day.
Agreed. As an imm and implmentor on a MUD I have been coding (along with a seperate mud I have played for 5 years now), players are whiney and greedy to the point in which it affects everyone else's game play. How do you solve this?
:hopes EQ is reading:
Simple. Create Avatars (demi-gods). Have them throw people that cause damaging amounts of trouble into jail for set amounts of time. Create quests that are 'live', in otherwords an immortal is running the quest, making it up as he goes.. tossing danger here and rewards there.
Also, something I learned while coding, you have to code for every rule you want implmented. Don't want them to always be able to attack and flee over and over so that they never get hit? Why not make it so if they flee their heart is full of fears, and every time they fight they flee and take damage for a set amount of time.
The more you take a fantasy (MUD mostly) and apply a dash of real world to it (like dying) the players who are true to the game stay, and become role models for those to come. In other words, you have to control the players, and immortal and coding interacting is a must 24/7.
Keep them interested, keep puzzles and things complicated here and there.. and yes although you may lose a huge fan base at first.. the true hard core players will stay. And eventually, as time has shown on my MUD and the MUD I play... you end up having a huge fan base.. of nothing but hard core players that are dedicated.
"Oh shit. That wasn't supposed to happen." - OpenBSD telnet exploration turned into accidental server crash
Edit-Compile-Run-Debug
Edit-Compile-Run-Debug
Programmers would seem to me to be very well conditioned for EQ addiction.
It's a device that removes you from reality for a short period of time and makes you want to use it over and over, you are an addict....
I did play the game for my insomnia, it gave me something to do at night.
I also played a character that did not group, did not become part of a guild, and did not play for the social aspects of the game. In fact being anti-social was the best part of the game, I played in character and loved it. I watched others knock mobs down and die, I would then grab the kill and profit! I can't be this way in real life, it doesn't work for me, but in the game it was immense fun.
How it ended. I was a necromancer, at one time this was a great character, a very hard one to play as the soloing ability and the deadliness of the character came with a glass jaw. This only became a problem when the class was nerfed, I at that moment canceled the account and watched infomercials.
It's just a game, as soon as Sony made the changes I walked away from it. Since I never played for the social aspects I wonder if those who played for those reasons were missing real friends and aquaintences and made up for them in this virtual world.
Well...funny this article would crop up.
I have been playing eq off and on since '99.
I have levelled to 45 twice with the same character, because when I was real addicted last time I quit for a year.
Everquest is too time consuming - period! It ruins relationships, and cause sleep deprevation ~ I am a guild leader and have over 50 people in my guild... I know about the addiction ))
You know that 12.95 a month will be better spent on my NetFlix account.
Time to quit for a second time......
Danarth, level 55 Rogue ~ Nameless Server
Recently I became semi-addicted to the online Magic the Gathering card game. I was really enjoying building up a good deck in the league I was playing in and was doing pretty well and couldn't seem to get enough of it. I found myself playing for hours on end when I knew I had better things to do. I found myself staying up too late, telling myself "just one more game" repeatedly.
... usually after an hours-long binge of game playing. I have microwaved several game CDs to get myself to stop playing. I used to play a MUD too much, and I committed suicide in the game repeatedly until the character was reduced to level 1 from level 15 and in doing so forced myself to lose interest in it. I've smashed cartridges with a hammer. At some point my will to stop playing the game overcomes my desire to keep playing and so in a moment of clarity I do things like this to keep myself from playing again.
Pathetic, for sure. I don't know why, but for me games easily become addictive. Almost every game that I have ever owned and really liked, I found myself playing too often and had to "destroy" to get myself to stop. In every case, I'd play more and more until one day I would finally cave into that inner voice that was telling me that I was playing too much
At any rate, getting back to the Subject of this post. The way that I quite Magic Online was, I opened a text editor, looked away, and mashed the keyboard to produce a sequence of random characters. Then I looked askew at the editor as I copied the text for copy-and-paste purposes. Finally, I ran the "change password" dialog for the game, and pasted the text that I had just copied, and did not know, into it, thus giving myself a new password that I did not know.
Viola. I can no longer log onto the game. I no longer have to deal with the temptation to play at all hours of the day. It's a very cleansing experience, and very shortly after destroying a game, or removing my ability to play the game, I always feel as if a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.
I'm just suggesting this as a way for people who are addicted to online games, to cure the addiction. If you stop yourself from being able to play, it is much easier to get over the addiction. I suppose that if there were some way to, say, make yourself unable to use drugs, then drug users would have a much easier time giving them up. But computer game addictions are easy to get over, you just have to be willing to destroy the game, or change your password as I have described, or whatever.
Anyway, I'd really suggest this password technique to the guy who wrote this Slashdot article. I think he seriously needs to use it.
umn a nice fat doobie..a dark room, fast net connection...glass of wine( or maybe milk and a package of nut-a-butter cookies) and a game of EQ...a nice way to relax:)
The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
... I endure this sickness and disease waiting for Neverwinter Nights [http://nwn.bioware.com/] to come out.
I got so tired of EQ, I quit one year ahead of the release of NWN.
What is so sad is that we don't pay month-to-month to play, our significant others actually enjoys us playing this game (because we are not so enthralled with the game) and Bioware supports hacks (see workaround patching for camera hack and the entire hakpak community).
MMORPG's are a sad state of existance and unfortunately, companies such as EA, LucasArts and the like are trying to find the perfect cash cow at the expense of gaming itself.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
Hmmm... I'd like to sign up for two of those titles, but for fairness I want to put that relative to my age, there's no point in contesting against an older geek stereotype. Did I say that I ain't exactly fat?
And moderators, please don't waste your time to mod this one down. There are far too many postings that'd deserve a +1 (something) to give this one a -1 (offtopic).
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
It was pretty fun but mostly the fun was working with other people and chatting.
When you get a good group and it's clicking and folks are joking and having fun... that's what it's all about.
When you see a greedy person or one who is being a jerk, they get ostracized by nearly everyone in the zone.
As for the nerfs, bugs and inattentiveness of the GMs. The nerfs are there to keep balance. The bugs are there because nothing is perfect. The inattentiveness is perceived relative to the personality of the plaintiff.
You have to understand, you are playing an online game - linkdeath happens. It sux but hey... what can you do?
There can't be a GM standing around all the time keeping an eye on folks. Usually, they are quite like judges. If enough folks complain or verify something, then they usually act.
As for the timesink, well you got a point there. It does eat up alot of time.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
I find the necessity for training individual skills without the option of using experience to pump them tedious. I can live with the mixed schemes such as Wiz8, but fully training based games make developing a diversivied character too much of a chore.
Then follows a three page essay of why I shouldn't trust my friends over this yahoo's bitter little screed.
For every one of these 'victims' that gets an article on
Myself, I got bored with it and quit playing it. Now THERE is a novel idea! If you don't like it, don't play the damned thing!
/*
I'd have to say that the mid-low level EQ is fun, even close to wonderful. the highend game is miserable, and people are quite often unwilling to help you because they dont want to spend thier precious time camping (sitting in one place waiting for the game to fall into the right place so you may complete your quest) many hours just for you.
If i had the choice to play again or not, I would quit. I have never worked so hard to anything. Going to school and playing over 80 hours a week about killed me, and it ruined my GPA.
I took my untwinked, unpowerleveled, unguilded shaman the slow way (pickup groups) all the way to 60 with 34 days of playtime (816 hours of my life) and after 60, i was guilded and spend another 25 days of my life raiding and "camping" for quest pieces so i could continue raiding and enter certain high level zones. at one point i was on more than anyone else in my guild (second best guild on the server mind you.) and that is when i realized that i needed to quit.
I would still be playing if it were possible, luckily it is currently not possible for me to play because of bandwidth requirements and the lack of options in my area. Sony was also kind enough to break the feature that allowed dialup users to raid effectively (thanks sony =p) and my account will be run out in the next couple of months. Unless my friends pressure me into playing again (real life ones, forget the guild ppl) I will happily bind my character in a place where he will die, spawn and die again. watch him delevel and then logoff and let all my corpses rot in a public place.
a very disappointed eq player
...all in all, thank God I quit.
At one point, I was extremely active in the various communities for those games. I played Everquest since the beta; I was personally invited into the beta for DAoC; I was an active poster on Lum's (a site anyone who follows these games will at least have heard about), on the appropriate newsgroups, and I had emails from Brad McQuaid in my inbox a time or two.
I was also a depressed teenager that was using these things as an escape from reality, just like most of the other people who play them.
I got off easier than most of the hardcore addicts; even though I was addicted, I knew it to be more to the community based around the game than to the games themselves. For most of those three years, it was more fun to talk about, critique or explain certain parts of the games than to actually play them- after all, although the games were, more often than not, buggy, unfinished, incredibly frustrating timesinks, they also had a large number of incredibly smart, creative, and imaginative people that congregated around them at all times. It takes a certain mindset to want to escape into a fantasy world like this in lieu of anything else- and, more often than not, the people you'll meet in such a game are much funnier, more able conversationists and more brilliant than anyone around you in real life.
Of course, they're also addicts that'll do anything up to and including pissing in a bottle, shitting on the floor and going without food for two or three days at a time to get the next item in a chain of a dozen that'll increase their character's power by 5%. These aren't just stories; I've seen them all firsthand and know for sure that there are still thousands (yeah, thousands) of people like that out there.
Because of the properties of my addiction, in the end, once I snapped out of my depression it became far easier for me to quit. I'll never touch an MMOG again; I remember what it was like, and even though Star Wars Galaxies or EQ2 might be tempting, I'll never buy a copy. Like I said, I got off easy; all it really cost me was about eighteen months of my life (which I'd have wasted anyway, because the depression was from outside sources) and I even made an equivalent of fifty cents an hour selling my stuff afterwards.
Most of the people I knew, though, probably haven't. In fact, I'd put money on half of them still being there a year after I stopped playing, probably worse off than when I last talked to them. (Don't kid yourselves; I made some good friends in that time, but most of them dropped off the face of the Earth the minute I quit. What do you have to talk about when one of you is in the game at least 12 hours a day and the other is desperately trying to put it behind him?)
It's not the games' fault; there are people I once knew that dropped out of high school due to playing MUD's. Stephen King wrote a story about twenty people failing out of college for playing Hearts, a card game, back in the sixties- something most people probably find harder to believe than I do. But there's no question that advanced technology makes it easier for people to lose themselves like this.
Today, I'm fine. A lot of people that were there when I was...aren't.
Use an emulator - connect to someones "home" everquest server, or just play on your own server - so MMPORPG without the MMPO !!!
http://www.eqemu.net/
It ain't open source, but at least its free!
Ultima Online also has quite advanced free emulators out too if you look around. (And you can download the client for free at the moment)
PS I got my EQ client off this months PC Gamer mag or somewhere..
Well, at least I was able to elucidate my point of view. Saying "you... don't know what your [sic] talking about" doesn't really contribute much. What exactly is your objection to my statement that listlessness, boredom, and depression are not physical symptoms? Are you going to contend that these are physical symptoms rather than mental conditions?
I do not have a signature
Because the addicts probably cause them more problems than they're worth. Yes, an addict is apt to be paying for the service, but it's not like playing the game 5, 10, or 18 hours a day is going to make Sony any more money. A player that simply enjoys playing and is sufficiently engrossed in the game (as in like an hour a day) will pay the same fixed rate, no? So then why would Sony want people to abuse it if there's no marginal benefit?
An addict is more apt to: cause problems for other players, engage in anti-social behavior online, consume more network/cpu/db resources, demand more of customer service, and so on. Addicts are almost certainly a relatively small part of the population too and not Sony's real target market. What's more, The paranoia of getting addicted and social stigma that is created by the actual addicts is far more likely to scare away the 99.9% of potential and existing players-far more than the addicts that they might lose by controlling it appropriately (if that's even necessary). This is not even bringing up the potential costs of lawsuits and so on.
If anything, I would think that preventing players from over-playing the game would prolong the play time or even amongst the more addicted players. The addicts are apt to burn themselves out more quickly, whether it's the result of their parents forcing them, them getting fired, their girlfriend's threatening to leave them, etc.
Of course, I've never played even a single MMORPG, so what do I know?
This is just like life. Did anyone else read this and think: wow, that's so true as a metaphor for life? It was my first thought. Surely I'm not the only one to notice the obvious parallels.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
You'd be suprised. You must never have connected to a TinyMUCK or derivative..basically they allow the players themselves to build the world, script objects, basically make whatever they want. Some of them force adhering to certain rules regarding the environment, history and so on -- some of them don't. And they're popular, by and large..VERY popular. The last one I had tried has an average of 200 people online, and that's a 24-hour running average.
Basically they have everything that they want, and there's no sign of them getting bored. If something doesn't exist that they want, they can make it.
Mental conditions have physical origins. Every mental state is a product of the underlying physical state of the brain; we just don't understand either type of state well enough to describe the connections in detail. Thus, every mental condition is a physical condition.
All right, those are simple assertions, and I'm not able to support them -- but anyone who contests them should have a better explanation for where mental states come from.
go format a linux partition
What you described is suspiciously like any game I played. It gets you to do things you don't enjoy *in themselves* so that you get a reward or escape sure death.
The trouble is - rewards are vacuous. In any game. There are some games that are more aesthetically pleasant that others - for instance, Fallout 2 has the best, moodiest music I've ever heard in a game, but all of this is on the sidelines, perhaps so that you wouldn't see how empty the quest itself is.
I always found many things interesting - reading, writing, nature, sciense, drawing, painting, yoga, music, programming, and I always felt games to be so much lower.. But the rub is, you may get million times less but you get it a thousand times easier. There, click a few times and you killed a dozen monsters. If you were reading Brothers Karamazov you'd still be struggling through the first sentence.
I think one of the best things I ever did was that I quit playing games. And it wasn't that I quit them, per se, but I just stopped enjoying them in the least bit. I mean, I'd kill a monster and I feel not the slightest emotion. I get a new piece of armor and, again, nothing. That sort of thing makes it easy to stop.
Don't feel sorry about the time you wasted - there's like a whole universe in each passing second. More than enough for a lifetime.
There's tons of people like that out in the world.. I'm so sorry I wasted my time.. drinking beer.. shooting pool.. reading.. eating too much.. TV.. weed. Living is not thinking about that. If you're feeling sorry for the past, you really should feel much more sorry for the present because nothing is lower than that endless whining sound, the one Ian Anderson sang about. You're sorry about wasting time instead of learning to draw? Occupy yourself with drawing now and you won't be sorry.
Sorry for the preaching, I hate that myself, but maybe this was a little bit different?
If you don't like the game then don't frickin play it, is that so difficult to understand.
Everquest plays YOU!
"that they can't will themselves to give it up. They play on instead, hoping things will get better, and nursing a great and deep hatred for Sony and the game itself."
Ironic I'm using one fantasy world to describe another fantasy world, but this system sounds much like the 'One Ring' in LOTR. I am not an EQ player and will not be. I certainly know I would enjoy the game, for a while, but then I know I will fall in the same trap as just described. I don't have to be a player or even know an EQ player to realize that what was said would be true. Of course it is a money making venture. For the same reason EA Games won't fix bugs in 'Battlefield 1942' or enable ways to remove team-killers, it just isn't profitable. Why spend resources fixing the problem when it won't really keep new players away and that same time can be put into an expansion pack that just ads a few new maps and weapons (easy to create after the game engine is done) and sell it for nearly the same price as the original (which of course must already be purchased). After going through countless hours in Counter-Strike playing the same damn 4-6 maps over and over, I can understand how bad it is. I will not even try the Star Wars: Galaxies for the same reason. Same idea, just different graphics.
Every player in EQ, to me, seems to be like Gollum. Reading the article, if I replaced 'Sony' with the 'Ring' or 'Sauron' I would swear I was reading a synopsis of Tolkien's world. The plays both love and hate the game and cannot be rid of it.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Just wondering.. are there people who keep reloading slashdot hoping for new stores to read.
Or people waiting like a hawk to get first post. Or people who keeps submitting stories in hope the slashdot will finialy stop posting old or fake news and put their "important" news on?
Or in one line: Can people get addicated to slashdot.
This is an interesting article, in a way. But it sounds remarkably like a heroin user complaining to his dealer about how his product is fun at first but it really begins to suck after a while, that the dealer isn't really his friend but a money-grubbing bastard, and that he's upset that the roller coaster has to stop sometime.
Well guess what. This is always what happens when someone starts hawking addictive wares. The gladhands inviting you back to the casino are psychotic sharks. There is no support, and the complaints inbox goes directly to the shredder. Suggestions aren't wanted because as far as the dealer is concerned, it couldn't get any better. After all, you're still coming back, right? Why change anything at all? It's a perfect way to extract money from the public in large amounts and abuse them at the same time.
This sort of industry needs to be regulated closely by the government because normal captialistic tendencies do not benefit the customer.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Nice :)
never played an MMORPG myself.
I imagine Star Wars Galaxies will be similar to this, except the players will be more annoying.
You probably played in college...I played in jnr. high school where the only other kids interested in D&D (it seemed) were anti-social losers (I'm including myself). Unsuprisingly, they didn't make for the best role-players (although I would like to think I gave it an honest try).
Funny memory from 7th grade: I happened upon the personals of an alternative weekly that my parents had lying around, was excited to find many ads by people interested in "role playing." My parents had to tactifuly explain that the ads weren't talking about D&D. Yeah, finding people to game with was difficult back then.
Now I am AMAZED by how many kids play RPGs - but it's in the form of Final Fantasy so I don't know if it really counts.
Online game really gets from you!
EQ is an addicting outlet for one's free time but the game itself is not the problem. The distinction is important. Remove the amount of free time necessary to play the game, and the addicts are quickly separated from normal players.
:).
Normal game players realize that the game no longer fits into their chosen lifestyle and quit for that reason. Addicts arrange their lifestyle to accomodate the game. EQ is a great game as long as it fits into your lifestyle. It's fun, challenging, and the social environment is rewarding (usually
I made some great friends in EQ, but when the game demanded more time than I was able to fit into my life...I quit. I miss playing the game, but I still have my friends.
--K.
Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
Yawn. Every single point you have raised - about the developers changing character stats, about lack of "sysops", about MOBs and high-level characters, and of course, most fundamental of all, about the addictive and time consuming nature of the game, has all been played out years ago on the classic BBS game Major Mud. These are rare games where the developers found the perfect balance between effort and reward. It IS difficult to get to the next level, but you get rewards for getting there. Once you've gone to all that effort, however, you feel stupid to ever give up the game. That's how the addiction happens.
-"I still believe in revolution; I just don't capitalize it anymore." - srini!
What You Really Get From an Online Game?
You get a life...
Few years ago I bought Ultima Online as a good-bye gift to my Microsoft Windows 95. What can I say, it's highly addictive. You can play few weeks for many hours a day and it's still not enough. Fortunately at that time I had already decided to go Debian-only, and I never figured out how to run Ultima Online on GNU/Linux (which was possible, as far as I know, using Wine or the unofficial port). I really hope WorldForge won't be as good as I'm afraid it's going to be...
root@aio:~# nmap -sX -iR -p1- # Ho, ho, ho! Merry Xmas, everyone!
62 Necromancer of Lanys T`Vyl
Poor guy. He's a high-level necro. Everyone knows high-level necros are bitter, life-haters. They were the first to receive -- perhaps the worst ever -- character nerf stick.
Whatever you do, don't call him a "manabattery"....
What I don't understand is the business model. Obsessive play pushes up the overhead, requiring more bandwidth, servers, customer support, etc. If, for example, you could log intentions for your character (train these skills, make these items, travel to this city) and log off, the company would still have the subscription income at a fraction of the cost. Processing would be limited for a lot of the game to elapsed time calculations, which could be farmed out to the client, and you could still have fun with the occasional adventure--play when you want to, not when the game, apparently, requires it.
You would think they would be going to great lengths to implement anti-addictive features. Like myself, everyone I know who quit the game did so because of the time requirements. No more monthly fees for Sony, and these people gave their accounts away, so they lost retail sales as well. If they dropped the play time needed to advance, requiring characters to train and make items offline (more realistic), and facilitated mini-quests and soloing, they could make even more money without pissing people off. Nine months of intermittent play to produce a top level character makes a helluva lot more business sense than two months of obsessive burnout play, after which the player deletes his account and hands off the box in disgust. And two months is the time most players take to get fed up with EQ.
You plod away at the keyboard, obsessed and consumed with getting that new item, or finishing that last quest, and while so consumed you begin to hate the game. Vehemently. It's a game that goes on forever, and one that you can never win.
Ummmm the game is called EVERQuest, not "Afternoon Quest" or "2 Months Quest." It's right there on the cover of the box you brought home for the store.
Moron.
You left out the part comparing EQ to Nozick's Experience Machine, what happened to the satisfaction of actually doing something real?
Thankfully I've dodged the repeated attempts from people trying to suck me into their addiction. I've always noticed that the gaphics look like that from the days of 386 and 486 games. Yeah yeah... it's ugh... pretty crappy!
Wizards.com - I Forgot My Password
I have played everquest for about 5 month, approximatively 6 hour per weeks. When I quit I had my Druid at lvl 27, a paladin at level 12, a shadownight at level 9, and a ranger at level 10.
I never waste anytime, but i have just play the game for entertainment. I have never had any problem with the game beside the boat and it only let me find some way to bypassed it (it is true that i have played eq almost 3 years after the release and most of the bug were removed). The only thing I had against eq was the downtime after a few second fight, until i realized that this massively MULTIPLAYER game was intended to be play in a group and then there were no more downtime only pleasure. The only reason i quit it is because i am not rich and i wanted to try other game like Earth and Beyond and Ashreon call 2. Now i can tell you that i have never have the fun that i have had with eq in those game an i will probably return to eq until SWG get out. Buy the way i have a simple computer game passion (some people call that addiction) and eq is so fun that it was amplified by it. I have always play it reasonbly and i have probably lost my character since i have not played for more then three month but i dont care because you know why.... it is only a game and the best i have seen so far. SWG looks far more promising and i am looking foward to play it.
and i also quit.. its soo addictive. .the fun parts are truly fun.. making friends getting spells. finding items.. pvping on the pvp server.. questing.. thats the fun part.. the part that is not fun.. is the leveling.. leveling takes SO much time. and its not like you level while going along.. if you want to level in a timely basis you gotta kill monsters.. and it just takes forever.. its not the kind of game that you can just sit down and play for a few minutes. once you play, your on for like 8 hours and its 5 am and its time to get up!!! its one of the best games i have ever played.. and i will always have fond memories about the game..and it probably is better than any game i have ever played. it is SO fun its addictive.. And you WILL sit hours on end to level your character up, and you will HATE that it takes FOREVER to get even the tinyiest improvement in your experience bar.
if you start up playing eq.. be prepared to loose sleep over it. They dont call it Evercrack for nothing.
It appears that some people in this thread and others fail to comprehend the seriousness of a kind of addiction that they have termed "psychological". I am certain that I cannot clearly outline the connections between the psychological and physiological state for these individuals, as so many of the world's finest minds in the fields of psychology, human physiology, neurology, physiological psychology, genetics, philosophy etc. have been laboring over the distinction between mind and body or lack thereof since those fields have been in existence without coming to a concensus. Still, I feel compelled to try to enhance their understanding of the problem in making this distinction despite this fact. I considered offering up examples of medicines that can greatly affect the mental state by increasing seratonin(5-hydroxytryptamine) levels, or offering up medical reports and studies of hypochondriacs that document that they can actually manifest physical symptoms of diseases that they have only read about and certainly do not have, but that information is already available to them. Instead of this, I've decided to offer an hypothetical kind of "psychological" addiction and compare it with a "physical" addiction in the hopes that it will be at least be somewhat thought-provoking.
physical: Jack uses chemical X. He began using it when he was feeling a little insecure about himself, and it imediately, but temporarily helped him to feel better. He also enjoyed the approval that he won from his peer group, who were also users of chemical X. Jack quickly became addicted. He relentlessly pursued this sort of stimulation to the point that his life had one narrow focus: Chemical X. He used whenever the opportunity arrose, and when it didn't he MADE an opportunity. He did not notice that it was a problem, that it altered his moods, and alienated those about him.
psychological: Jane flames people. She began doing this when she was feeling a little insecure about herself, and it immediately but temporarily helped her to feel better. She enjoyed the approval that she won from her peer group, who were also into cutting other people down to make themselves feel better. Jane quickly became addicted to this behavior. She relentlessly pursued this sort of stimulation to the point that her life had one narrow focus: being a prick. She was a prick whenever the opportunity arrose, and when it didn't, she MADE an opportunity. She did not notice that it was a problem, that it altered her moods, and alienated those around her.
So you see, there are parallels, and behavior can be addictive for the same reasons that chemicals can.(Particularly when one takes into account that behavior directly affects chemical balances and vice versa.) Both stimulate the mind in a way that an individual can come to crave to the point that they have almost no choice in the matter. They must get their "high". The withdrawal symptoms experienced when they become deprived of their addictive stimulii vary, but are always painful because the addicted individual is losing an activity that has become central to his or her life.
* Note - not all multiplayer games suck. The only ones that don't suck are the ones that:
a. Have little or no stupid/immature people with verbal diarrhea playing them.
b. Are the ones you don't take seriously.
So far, at least in my experience, the type of game that most encourages both a and b seem to be (ironically enough, considering point b), semi-realistic military simulators. Examples being the Spec Ops games from Zombie, and Delta Force from Novalogic (and definitly not WWII-based games (which are for the most part WWII-based because viciously slaughtering Nazis is considered non-offensive and therefore marketing-safe) like MOHAA and BF1942).
In the great CONS chain of life, you can either be the CAR or be in the CDR.
8).
Of course, being out of work I would give a lot to be back in one of them.
Lew
I think it can be argued either way about whether this person is a bitter gamer or trying to air how Sony views its consumers, but I've noticed an interesting parallel, one that seems to exist in all online gaming communities, and that is the existence of classes. You have three, the people in charge, the middlemen, and the players. The people in charge are often inaccessible, so their motives cannot be gauged, yet their actions can. The players see these actions and automatically assume the worst (because without knowing the reasoning behind the actions, loosing something you worked really hard on can make you angry), so you have the players holding contempt for the people in charge (i.e. Sony). The middlemen are like middle management, they report to the people in charge, and to the players, given only enough power to do their task, but never enough to resolve community issues. These are the people who would usually communicate with the players, and when the players see that there is nothing the middlemen can do, it only increases their frustration towards the leadership in general.
m e3/issue9/destroy.html
I admit not playing Everquest, but to those who do, take a look at that article and see if you can spot more of the symptoms written there.
Maybe it's just me, but I see this all the time on Muds. Just replace Sony with The Administration, the GM volunteers with Wizards, and the players with...well players. I've been all three on many muds before, and I've seen this same story over and over again. There is always grief between the players and the administration, and both groups hold, at the least, a certain disrespect for the other. The players view the Administration as not caring for their needs, and the Administration views the players as needy children who will bite your head off if you don't do exactly what they say. The wizards are, of course, caught in the middle, as always.
The other parallel I see is the willingness of the players to take the abuse they are dealt from this system. Obviously, they are powerless to do anything about the situation they are in, aside from leaving, yet they choose to hold their abusers in contempt, and I agree, the only reason they do this is because they are addicted to that which they hate.
My question is why pay Sony $21/mo when you can just receive that kind of treatment for free on a MUD?
As a side note, the nerfing issue seems to fall into a documented prediction of failing Muds: http://imaginaryrealities.imaginary.com:8080/volu
Maybe online roleplaye gaming itself is doomed for failure. Diablo 2 suffers from much of the same problems as EverCrack.
Perhaps there will one day come a company that realizes that customer support and good game design will attract far more new customers and keep way more old customers loyal to the game.
In the meantime, I'll be playing Counter-Strike.
Dan
you need help, get off the fucking computer and go get a girlfriend and I dont mean your right hand.
Or at least go to an addiction specialist...sheesh.
Addicts Anonymous, maybe?
lol, or he got caught doing something foolish
Enough with the victimhood nonsense! Enough pretending like it is being inflicted on you!
Is this a sick joke? Everyone is a victim. Everyone is abused. Everyone is being held hostage by forces bigger than themselves. We are helpless! Ohh no! Panic!
GROW UP PEOPLE. It is only a video game. Play it, don't play it. Who cares.
Perhaps this site needs a new motto. SlashDot: There place where Libertarians (or whatever this idiot is) know more about addiction than Psychologists.
If you have some conclusive evidence that video game "addiction" is not real, then you should present it now. Otherwise, you'll just have to accept that perhaps video games can be addictive (the jury's still out on that: see the bottom of this page for a list of articles in academic journals on the topic).
Perhaps these people are talking about becoming addicted to video games, and perhaps their addictions are real. I don't think you can prove otherwise. In the overwhelmingly likely event that you cannot, then your blase attitude not only foolish, but perhaps downright harmful (Imagine what it would be like if people reacted like this to alcoholics!) So stop acting like you know more than everybody else, including the people who are actually studying this issue.
Having had Diablo 2 suck up over a year of my life and mess things up significantly I'd have to say that I understand where the article comes from. Having managed to escape once but only to be dragged back again, all I can say is; let it go, all of it, everything. Delete the game, change the passwords, give the game to someone else (pass on the plague ;). It's the only way to break free.
I remember hours before my exams where I should have been cramming because I had only been 'playing' the week before going, 'one more drop, just one more drop'. Not a good place to be.
But now a year on it's over, having left behind more than 16 level +80 characters and enough mules to equip a small army all I can say to you is; walk away, give it up, for were would you go otherwise. I know it's hard but it's the only way.
G-Kar, Lundo, Vir, NastyGirrrl, Nimbis, SevenONine, Tiggggggger, Bianca, Linus and all the others whose names grow faint, RIP, You will not be forgotten
Linus - The 'Helper'
GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
do we really need another biased review of a really good game from someone who hasn't PLAYED the game in a while?
different people get enjoyment from different sources and this reviewer obviously is just trying to make everyone unhappy because he's unhappy.
I thought that attitude disappeared when you grow up.
d'oh
ALL Online RPGs are like this.
There are a couple of reasons to make multiplayer games. First, it's a cheap way to get good AI. Good AI is hard, and it's easy to slap a people in chairs.
Second, there can be positive interaction, like chatting with friends. That can be good for the player experience.
Third, and this is not insignificant, it's much easier to stop piracy if the player *must* log into a server to play.
Okay. That pretty much sums up the pros of multiplayer gaming. Now for the cons.
First, player interaction can be pretty negative. I think Penny Arcade saidit best: "And those you encounter online are, almost as a rule, complete and utter cockmongers." Players will happily cheat, get angry and harass people, attack connections, etc, etc.
Second, multiplayer games with a central server frequently have monthly fees.
Third, single player games can be played...well, just about forever. If you loved X-COM, you can still sit down and play a good game of it. Players of the (much more recent) Weapons Factory Quake 2 mod are far more difficult to find.
Fourth, a computer can lose and lose and lose, and doesn't care. Players generally like to win more than half the time, which doesn't work too well for competitive multiplayer games (and purely cooperative games, while really neat, are *very* rare). So if players are playing an RTS, someone is probably getting unhappy.
Fifth, multiplayer games are much more open to failures. Firewalling, network problems, a slow connection, traffic from other users...all can contribute to be a real annoyance to the player playing the game.
Sixth, multiplayer games (with a *few* exceptions, like play-by-email games) must be real-time. To avoid inconveniencing other players, there is no pause feature. You can't get up and stretch or answer the door or do what you want whenever you want.
Seventh, it's very difficult to do a reasonably good plot-based multiplayer game. I can't think of any multiplayer games that use plot to much advantage.
I've looked at the shift towards online games with a profound lack of excitement. Sure, it's great for game companies, but it isn't all that great for game players.
Already, game companies are so eager to get on the game bandwagon that they've thrown a glut of games into every "fad" multiplayer genre that's come out. Three years or so ago, it was multiplayer FPSes. Everyone and their brother had to have a multiplayer FPS. More recently, a glut of "realistic" multiplayer FPSes has come out. There was a *huge* explosion in MMORPGs...and companies kept entering a market that they knew was already saturated.
Few really good single player games have come out in the past few years. Max Payne -- I didn't play it, but it was so cinematic that I watched a friend play through the entire game. Very impressive piece of work, sold very well...and yet, unlike multiplayer games, it didn't spawn twenty clones the next year.
The single-player RPG market for the PC is also pretty weak. There's a few, mostly obscure games. Arx Fatalis is pretty impressive. Blade of Darkness.
Kind of sad, the shift away from single player games. It used to be that you could play a fifteen-year-old game. People did too, and loved the nostalgia. Pac-Man, 1943, Centipede. Four years from now, all of today's games will be dead, because there will be almost no one playing them. [penny-arcade.com]
May we never see th
So magic items change; they are not 100 % predictable? I don't know about you, but that sounds just fine to me, keeps you wondering, keeps magic mysterious, keeps you on your toes.
Ok, so some moron writes a 15k diatribe about what horrible people Sony are, blaming them implicitly for his total inability to control his own life, and this is front-page Slashdot material how, exactly? If you don't like it, quit. There's a novel concept eh? Vote with your dollars instead of bitching about it in a forum where a) it's irrelevant, and b) noone who can make a difference in the situation will ever read it. And by the way folks, it IS that easy. I walked away from a 55th level enchanter when it started eating too much of my time for no reward. And I didn't die from it, or go into heroin-esque withdrawal. Just sell or give away the account, and walk away (or if you're an optimist buy a better game like AO or SWG).
It's just not that easy. Once you're a little bit into the game, you get into the endless cycle of "just one more level and I'll...". So there's always some sort of enticement for you to spend time with the game and get some sort of incremental advancement. Once you have it, two things usually occur:
- The advancement has little or no noticeable effect
- You become enticed by the next incremental advancement, which you think *will* make a difference
Next, you'll probably join a guild. In my EQ playing experience, I was a member of four or five different ones, a founding member of one (present at the GM head-count), and the webmaster of another. The amount of inter- and intra-guild bickering and political masturbatory flagellation was easily several orders of magnitude beyond even the most caustic Fox News Channel broadcast. This was true for each and every guild I was in. No guild was interested in helping each other out, and no guild members posessed the least care for the welfare of the guild as a whole. Comments from others confirm my suspicions that my experiences were typical, that guild membership tends to make the game even less fun. That said, peer pressure in the game makes a player *want* to be the member of a guild.The two years of my EverQuest addiction, 2000 and 2001, were easily the worst two years of my life. I got my worst grades in college, a national merit scholar now with several Ws, an I, and a couple of Fs. My GPA was lowered by 0.4, forever preventing me from having any summa with my cum laude. I couldn't perform at work and ended up quitting my job to preserve what little chance I had of being rehired (which later turned out to be zero). I went from embedded software engineering to working at a call center for $9.25/hour. My wife and I got a divorce. I don't know how much of this to blame on EverQuest, but it *was* a factor. The last argument I had with my ex-wife, for instance, involved the rightful ownership of a set of shadow knight armor. Fun.
EverQuest is an evil force. Go ahead, plug in and ruin your life, too.
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
I beg to differ. I coded for a few unique MUDs (e.g., not the standard DIKU where you started in Midgaard), and while they had a new world concept and storyline, I've seen so many things on EQ that were outright "borrowed" from some MUDs, that it's not even funny. Someone I know was actually able to bypass a large part of one quest because he knew what the ultimate result (the end mob in the quest) was, because he wrote the original quest it was based on years earlier.
Now, there's plenty of original content, but don't confuse that with it being all original.
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
I installed Everquest. It took me three hours to get it to work. I never did find out why it was locking my machine up.
I finally got online, wandered about for a couple of hours, found absolutely nothing of interest, and quit. For good.
Similarly with Ultima Online, except I didn't have to screw around for three hours to get it to work, and it was interesting for a couple of days.
So I'm back to playing Nethack. It's free. It rocks.
Stay away from addictive games, they're evil.
Fortunately, Walmart has a large selection of the non-addictive kind, with titles like "Hooters Road Trip."
These games, the saviors of our society, are lovingly coded by community minded companies. They will never be addictive. They'll never ask for a monthly fee. They won't even compell you to play after the first fifteen minutes. If games like EverQuest are so evil, vote with your dollars, support these endeavors. Of course, they are also utter shite.
A computer game is supposed to be enjoyable. A good computer game is supposed to encourage you to come back to it again and again. That's what it's supposed to do.
So EQ delivers that for $13/month (with the average player on for 20+ hours?) as opposed to buying $50 games twice a month for about a dozen hours each. I'd say it's proved to be one of the very best value investments in gaming history.
Perhaps the time comes when you have to ask whether the game is doing anything evil or simply what people look for in a game? Whether the online fee is extortion or a better deal than [almost] any other game out there - for the longevity it gives? Whether those people bitching that it's addictive are simply a little too immature to accept that if it wasn't this game they didn't have the strength to drag themselves away from, go outside, maybe get a date, then it'd be some other one? But then again, maybe it's always easier to be the critic?
TV is evil and addictive. Computer games are evil and addictive. Internet chat rooms are evil and addictive. Porn is evil and addictive. None of their users are ever simply weak willed and too dishonest to admit to themselves that they're staying because they like it more than they like making the effort to do anything else.
I used to work for the Microsoft's "Asheron's Call", back when they used to use a whole slew of volunteers, as opposed to just a few minimum wage Admins (with which they replaced all of us when MS feared a labor law lawsuit). They now have the same model now as Sony: A tiny number of GMs responsible for thousands of players. Have a problem? Take a number and MAYBE someone'll get around to you, and no, there's no way to flag your request in case of an emergency.
I also served for a time as a Guardian in Funcom's "Anarchy Online", when that game first launched (if the game equivalent of the Titanic ever could be said to have 'launched') before the sheer levels of incompetence (on the part of their whole staff) and impotence (on my part as an Operations Coordinator) caused me to decide to quit in disgust.
Aside: Yeah, I was a glutton for punishment... but I'd fooled myself into thinking it'd be different or better the second time around. I was wrong: It was worse beyond my wildest imaginings. On the other hand, that experience, except for brief (1 month each) forays into playing E&B and DAoC, pretty much broke my online gaming (and volunteering) habit.
I'll be quite honest -- I got to see both sides of that online game addiction coin. I played WAY too much. Same kind of thing, in that the more I played, the more the nerfs, sociopathic fellow players, annoying game bugs, and the general arbitrariness of the whole thing got on my nerves.
You can't win. Even if you think you've accomplished something and are ahead, the Devs can just as easily take it away a month later.
What's worse, the more time you put into it, the harder it'll be just to walk away from your 'investment' of time.
And when I made it onto the Online Team as an Asheron's Call Sentinel (in-game GM, but with limited powers) and Chancellor (out-of-game Help chatroom), I was literally putting in 50-60 hours a week on that gig. There, the problem was that I'd fooled myself into believing I was accomplishing something good and worthwhile -- completely blind to the fact I was being used like a flop-house whore by Microsoft.
My own damned fault though, as far as I'm concerned, and my blindness was embraced willingly, because I didn't want to believe it was all a waste of time -- and not even fun.
Needless to say, my consulting business as a tech writer began to suffer. Oh, I got my projects done on time and all that. But I wasn't putting in anything like the time necessary to continue landing new gigs. The money began to dry up.
I witnessed firsthand more than a few players and online team volunteers flunking out of college, losing their jobs, getting divorced, being evicted, you name it. These games, like any addictive activity, had the very real potential to ruin people's lives. I know. I -saw- it happen, and came damned close to having it happen to me, too.
I have to say it: This guy is dead-on right about the way enjoyment, fun, and entertainment slowly morph into hate, anger, and loathing. What's worse, the more I'd put into it, the worse it got.
The same model as applies in EQ applied in Asheron's Call. Get people to buy the game, get 'em to sign on, and suck up as much of their time as possible -- and periodically grab some more money through "optional" expansion packs. Make quitting as difficult as possible -- up to and including making it nigh impossible to quit without a scavenger hunt on some obscure webpage... about as hard as it used to be to find an uncamped Olthoi Noble spawn in the old Black Spawn Den. As far as I know, Microsoft's Gaming Zone STILL does not have a customer service phone number you can call to resolve account problems or to cancel. (Well, you -could- call the number they are required by law to put on your credit card bill, and they'd do the deed... but the AC Online Team was explicitly -forbidden- from giving out, mentioning, or otherwise acknowledging the existence of that phone number.)
Same deal for players on the constant nerfs, character balancing, overpowered items (guaranteed to be nerfed), useless quest items (guaranteed to be left alone), and buggy patches. Now mind you, I got to work behind the curtain to a certain degree.
We ALWAYS knew that patch days were going to be utter hell, especially in the ACHR (AC Help Room), because each patch had a fairly significant chance of breaking the game software entirely for a sizeable percentage of the players, especially those patches which affected graphic elements and/or the GUI. Then, inside the game, we had the usual MOB training and kill-stealing, kids with foul-mouths and too little supervision, and the occasional sexual stalker or online harasser. On those patch days, I would often put in 14-18 hours straight (yes, I was insane), just trying to help players get into the game. We hated the bugginess of the patches, and knew damned well that the developers spent virtually zero time regression testing each patch slapped on like another leaky seal on a sinking submarine. The so-called test team, known as Vanguard, seemed to exist entirely and solely for the purpose of leaking quest solutions to the most exploitive players in the game (some of which were ON the Vanguard test team).
And why? Because they (MS and Turbine) didn't have the budget or the time for it. Players were always clamoring for new content, so they got it -- ready or not. Emphasis on 'not'.
As for the volunteer team itself... well, welcome to Peyton Place, my friends. Few people could be more vicious at times than those who'd clawed their way to a position of pseudo-authority in the ranks of unpaid volunteers. The less the actual reward, the more nasty the infighting. Now, mind you, a LOT of the volunteers were great. Heck, we STILL stay in touch, quite a few of us, and this is years after they let us go.
But we weren't paid professionals. Most of us did the job because we thought it might make a difference. Some, though, did the job because they liked the power, or because they thought it would help them cheat -- and in a few sad cases, it did. I had a particular talent for enforcing against harassment and other ingame stuff usually willfully ignored by MS management. Of course, it helped that most players had no real idea as to exactly what I could do... but my powers pretty much began and ended at teleportation, gagging, and one-day game bans. MS didn't trust us with anything more. I got quite a bit done by bluff and subterfuge, and by giving the distinct impression that if I asked MS management to permaban an account, they'd do so. Actually, on balance, they had such a laissez faire attitude towards the players, you'd see players get away with some of the most amazingly racist, sexually explicit, and downright criminal behavior on a regular basis. Players's would run around with foul or racist names for a year or more before the MS Admins would get around to doing anything about it.
In any event, I came around to an interesting realization, during my time with AC: The people running these games -- companies like Sony (EQ), MS (AC and AC2), EA (Earth & Beyond), and Mythic (DAoC), and Funcom (Anarchy Online). And the Developers. And the GMs. In the fictional game world they create, they ARE the gods.
And like the Greek gods of myth, they're flawed, vain, petty, arbitrary, and they make mistakes. AC's ongoing Chief Dev hated mages, so guess which class was constantly getting nerfed after game launch? Funcom's head of the Admin teams refused to believe that there was anything resembling serious in-game harassment could occur -- and so that game launched without the ability to squelch (block unwanted chat).
Anyway... I left AC entirely shortly after they dismissed the volunteers, in part because as my playing character, I witnessed a guy spamming broadcast chat in one of the towns, asking if there were any little girls around because he "liked them young and tight". There was much more explicit stuff, but you get the idea. It was reported, but nothing was done. I heard tell that another fellow spammed racial epithets in front of dozens of other players for hours, again with nothing done about it.
Let's fact it: These companies are in it to make a buck. They care only to entertain enough to get you hooked, then as far as they're concerned, you're just a renewing account and a credit card number.
I prefer single-player games now. There's no issue of cheats or exploiters. No harassment. Patches actually FIX bugs, as opposed to creating them. And most of all, there comes a point where I can honestly say, "I won! That was fun. Now I'll go do something else until the next interesting game comes out."
cheers,
Technowitch
formerly Chancellor and Sentinel Kadera
Take your $$$ elsewhere. No matter how much love you have for the game, it has forsaken you. There's too many other quality games out there; why waste time on sheer frustration?
eBay is great for finding used games, sometimes at hardly more than the cost of a month of EQ.
But not necessarily in the best interest of the company hosting them, so don't bet on it.
- Characters can die. Instead of building a character that will last for years, you build a character that, if you're lucky, you can keep alive for a couple weeks. Sure, you can have your friend ressurrect you, but if your corpse decays after so many minutes, you're gone forever. This will give a finality to the game at some point, providing a good point to start over anew, or a good excuse to quit if you've had enough.
- The game can end. Certainly not easy, but say you have an artifact split into 24 pieces, each giving special powers to the one possessing it. Of course, anyone holding one of the artifacts can't drop it, can't permanantly leave the game, and is overly visible to the rest of the world, making him/her a prime target. Anyone who can gain all the pieces will have a special capability of wiping the planet, or wiping all the evil from the planet (depending on your desire at the time). At least this gives people a goal beyond finding the next monster to kill.
- Unconditional banning of cheaters. Permanantly removed from the game, and all other games hosted by the company. No refunds, and to even make it better, have the players put forth a deposit that they lose. Granted, this should only be done with adaquate in-house witnesses to the cheating, but when I played UO, they had unrefutable proof of HUNDREDS of cheaters on each server that they offered a no-loss amnesty option. This had to do with duped gold & other resources. Just give us back the duped stuff, and we'll forget it ever happened... Then a few months later there was another "warning for cheaters" that had been cheating for quite a while. They were encouraged to "fix the problem" over the next few days or get banned. They already knew who were doing it. They didn't even need witnesses that time.
Seriously, publically rid yourself of that 1% of your clientle that is cheating, and the other 99% won't even consider it.
- Balanced characters. In UO, everyone gravitated to swordsman and mage, with a few optional extras, since that was the only professions that you could really do anything with. Any of the other professions were only used by the mules. I actually played as a tamer early on, using tamed creatures as my weapons in battle, until OSI listened to a bunch of whiners about how hard it was to PK someone who had 6 tame dragons guarding him, that they decided to nix that as an option. Every character type in the game should have some useful benefit that gives them an advantage over one type, but vulnerable to another. In the old D&D rules for instance, a mage couldn't wear armor and had very low hitpoints compared to other characters. A useful ally, but you don't want to venture out alone.
Include the above elements, and make the game GOOD, and you'll have just as many hardcore gamers, addicts or otherwise. They'll all pay the same $10 a month, if they play for an hour a month or 12 hours a day. I finally quit playing UO and never looked back. All I could remember for the last few months was that I was miserable with the game, yet I couldn't wait to play it. There was just something wrong with that feeling....
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
At Intel and I guess many corporations they also have levels. Also based on time spent. They also reward patience rather than skill although they will always say they are rewarding skill.
Sometimes after playing games you are able to see real life on a different life.
I surely have nothing new to say. But nonetheless, I have the right to express myself, surely as much as the original author.
Sure, a lot of EQ sucks. But just like the real world, there's gotta be bad to compare the good to. There's a lot to complain about. But if you are still playing this game, and feeling like it is a chore, why are you playing this _game_ ?
I have been playing EQ for somewhere around three years. I have averaged, over those three years, one third of my time (half of my time if you consider only 2/3 of the day is spent awake) in this game. Why? Because it offers me what I want.
I have met WONDERful people. I have filled my time with something better than staring at the wall. Or the television. I am exersizing my mind, at least a bit, with even the most menial tasks.
Plus, there's the cost. You say, how could I pay thirteen dollars EVERY MONTH for this? Well as I told you, I average eight hours a day, enjoying myself (!!!), in EQ. That means, every month, for my thirteen dollars I can go out and see a movie, two hours of entertainment, or I can play EQ, get between 100 and 150 hours of entertainment as well as meet all sorts of people I likely would never have otherwise met.
The people, by the way, are the primary reason I am still playing. The naysayers may say, "Go to a chat room, it's free!" but what do I do in that chat room, when none of my friends are there? In EQ there's a myriad of things to go do, and while I'm doing those things my friends show up and we have a merry old time!
Yes, I've spent time outraged when CS was slow. And when the nerf bat hit me right in the balls. But you gotta roll with the punches. Bottom line is I'm still spending a lot of time there, and it's because I enjoy it. I'm level 62, but there are only two other people over 50 in my guild. As I said I'm there for the friendships, not the loot. The people in my guild are low level, rather casual players, but I love them.
Health is simply dying at the slowest rate possible.
That's really a misuse of the word. What you call 'chemical addictiveness' is addictiveness, period. What you're calling 'phychological' (sic) is not addictive and has nothing to do with it, the proper word is 'habit-forming'.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
You must excuse my post, really. It is late, and I can't get any sleep. In such cases, I read /., which doesn't help matters at all. Inevitably, I will find some posts that are just wrong. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! I feel that they're the product of a bunch of dumb people that are writing up bullshit for no reason other than that they are full of said. And then I want to defend the attacked, or better yet attack the attacker, which is what most folks do most of the time anyway. It's human. Really.
The overwhelming majority of posts to this article attack David, calling him a "whiner" who's wasting his money and/or our time. And time is *important* and so is money, and really one is the other and blablabla. All of this is interesting because it has been a particularly long and active thread, wherein these tendencies simply go crazy.
Consider the following. There might be a play, call it "Saint Joan", by an author who won the Nobel Prize, call him "George Bernard Shaw". Now this piece might be the product of obvious genius; the author cared very deeply about the issues presented in his piece, and many other intelligent folks did too. But after having labored through its two-hundred or so pages, you may still think ---in fact you would be perfectly justified in thinking---that it is the first-rate piece of shit you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.
That's ok, I sympathize with you immensely, not only does the thing suck, it is also boring and a complete waste of your time. But that doesn't change the fact that the author cared about all of it, every little detail that he so long-windedly describes, he poured emotion into it and opened himself to public criticism and ridicule.
The American and in extension the global public culture, above all, is determined by narcissism. No other characteristic sums up our actions quite so nicely, the way we use "political correctness" as a cheap ersatz for compassion, the way we think that war can be a clean and straightforward enterprise that shows off our military prowess, the way we can't seem to get enough of lousy TV shows that tell us just how great we are---or better yet, that even though we ain't, we are still so much better than anybody else and really, that's just as good.
But it isn't.
A narcissistic culture cannot accept the public display of what is perceived as weakness, personal defeat. So, such a display is labeled as "whining" and the usual tactic of reducing everything down to money is employed, EQ costs $13 per month and that means blablabla. Then the nonsensical advice is given "to get a life", indeed it doesn't get any more empty and devoid of meaning than that. But above all, everybody starts (and stays) with the steadfast conviction that the author, the "whiner", is really just an idiot who wasted his time (like you think of me right now, for instance) and that you, YOU, are so much smarter than him (me).
What is ignored in the whole process is that he cares about all of it. He poured emotion into it and opened himself to public ridicule, all because he felt that there is something that ought to be said. I have no clue about EQ, but I commend you, David, for doing this. What you did stands far above the ordinary jostling together of a half-amusing, half-irritating rant. By far, your account of EQ is one of the most complex and painfully self-scrutinizing ones I've seen in a long time. While I'm sure that this "dark side" is not all of it, reading about this particular aspect was engaging and most intriguing. Thanks for that.
m.w
Imagine the Creator as a stand up commedian - and at once the world becomes explicable. -Mencken
Frankly, I used to play EQ...it was the first first person game that I found that didn't give me headaches and make me physically ill. I stuck it out from near the beginning until after Luclin and Legends came about.
Then I realized, since this was right as the rate increase kicked in, that there was a serious problem. Shadows of Luclin had a long list of promised features that never saw daylight (and only a few have been added in since). This was their 3rd expansion and yet it seems like they never learned the mistakes of the first two.
I got to thinking about parallels and realized that Sony's marketing tactics were becoming more and more like another big giant company that also puts out new releases of software every year. I know that some people will disagree about the parallel, but it struck a chord with me.
Then add in the Legends 'premium' service. I gave it a try for a month, and I saw none of the new content that had been promised for 'all levels'. Saw some for the high end game...but not for the low levels which is where the characters I had transferred were at. Oh sure, I had access to the websites and all those nifty things...but they provided nothing I couldn't do for myself. So again, it wasn't worth the money.
And the final straw was the high end game. I had, after years of work, finally got a character up to level 52. I spent days doing nothing but eat, sleep, play EQ to get myself up from the mid-30s into the 50's. Then Planes of Power was announced to be in development...with talk of adding more levels. And I looked around and saw a half completed expansion (Luclin), lots of money being soaked up (raise in monthly rates and Legends), and finally a cutback in customer service.
So I left, and never turned back. And unless I hear differently, I am going to assume that any other Sony produced MMORPG is going to be just put out to line their pockets. I was interested in SWG, but I am not convinced they have ever learned their lessons with EQ so I will wait and see how it turns out before buying it.
Until then, I will spend my time on DAOC, which (so far) appears to have a clue on how to properly produce an expansion and add in content.
And I will spend my time on Earth and Beyond as it actually has an experience system that makes sense--where it isn't about how many critters you kill but also about exploring and trading.
Grei
I had a 60 cleric and 60 bard on the Everquest test server. I quit the game a while back because I went back to college to actually do something with myself. After being away for a while I actually shiver at the thought of playing it again. Here is how the addiction is formed for those of you who wonder.
;). By the time your in the 50's you will spend weeks to get a level, show up red eyed for work, never have anything planned on the weekend, and if you smoke god help your chimney puffing self. Your online friends become better known to you than your real friends because your real friends gave up on your worthless ass.
level 1. You are a worm. You don't even have clothes. Anything you find that you can use is a treasure, and if you find something your level you have a good chance of killing it. You spend a four hours running around in circles trying to figure out the poor interface and looking at female elven breasts. MMMMMmmm elf fetish.. hmm what was I saying... oh yea. You go to work the next day and tell the guys how you are going to play America's army that night because the EQ interface is shite.
level 5. You are a grub worm. You figure you paid for the game, and you might as well check it out for your remaining free month. You may actually have a nasty shirt or pair of pants to wear now, and possibly a rusty sword, or in my clerics case a rotten staff of some sort. You spend your hard earned money on black bread and water, barely having enough to keep from dying of starvation. Danger is at every turn, and you have to watch your back or any monster can jump you and kill you outside of the city zones. It's kind of exiting, but the interface is still shite.
Level 10. You are a noob. Stop begging for food from the rich as hell older characters., or talking to them, or standing around them stinking up their air because they hate you. Today you grudgingly left your land of milk and honey (aka near naked elfs) and made the trip from the elven continent to the main continent. Well you tried anyways, but the boat bugged out and dropped you in the middle of the ocean where you ran afoul of some big monsters and died losing all of your stuff. You petition a gm for help, but they don't answer. It must be the same bug that caused you to get dumped in the ocean. You make the trip again naked, and this time you actually get to Freeport the human city. You run into a hot little blue elf (THEY MAKE THEM IN BLUE??? MMMMM) and begin to put on your best lines. Once you tell her you don't have any plat to give her she tells you she is a guy. OMG you think to yourself, she didn't even have an Adams apple. You log that night at 1am bleary eyed and tired thinking that cross dressers are shite.
Level 15. You are a noob - get used to it, your going to be for a long time. You have been playing sporadically, not wanting to repeat the 1am work night thing, but you play all weekend to get to 20 because you didn't have any real plans anyways, and it's good to relax and veg out sometimes. You think to yourself quite often that the game would be better without so many people crowded into zones trying to kill the same monsters. You die all the time doing stupid stuff, but how he hell are you supposed to know what to do when everyone seems to talk their own language here "lol, stfu, noob, afk, brb, log, mob, assist, group, killsteal, zerg, wtf, wth, gate, port, bind, ks."
Actually I was going to go to level 60, but fark it, you get the point. I've got homework to do, and writing a post about EQ even takes too much damn time lol
Oh, and your still a damn noob because you haven't been playing since beta.
has anyone else noticed that aside from the characters and the worlds that SWG looks and behaves EXACTLY like Age of Empires? did they make AOE too?
Got Pizza?
Get a life
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Sure, our culture may be crappy, but it's never been better!
That's right. To heck with some rich mom's lawsuit: let people move their money around. The reason things seem worse now is 24-hour cable news that is like a vacuum cleaner for ratings-provoking headlines across the country. Used to be, nobody in Arkansas cared what anyone in Oregon was doing. But now, somebody passes gas and it's the "Fart Heard Round the World!"
There is absolutely no way that virtual worlds will be regulated in any way remotely similar to the way all these drugs are regulated. Society will change, people will grouse, moms will file lawsuits, and Sony will make money.
We just have to make sure we remember to preserve the REAL world in the meantime.
Machines take me by surprise with great frequency. -A. Turing
1. Only takes a few hours to build a character to a decent "level"
2. Non-addictive
3. Free
4. Fun!
Blood Dusk
If you don't like the game THEN DON'T PLAY IT!! Duh.
Sig is taking a break!
Wow, it sounds like its really dreadful. Give me your account information and I'll call customer service and cancel it for you. After all, your addiction seems to be preventing you from doing so. No? I didn't think so. You play because you want to play.
As a "hacker" and endurance athlete I'm very familiar with various "altered states" that have a distinct physiological componant. The "runner's high" is real and based on the release of endorphins in the system. When forced to take an extended break by injury or "real life" I actually go through a physical withdrawl similar to that of the heroin addict, although far less severe.
I'm also a coffee addict and likewise experience physical withdrawl when denied coffee for more than several hours.
The "little satori" of the hacker, I still maintain, even though there is a slight physiological componant, is different from these.
I prefer to maintain the classic distinction between addiction and obssesive behaviour because I belive the distinction is real, and important to treatment.
*THAT* said, ignoring the purely psychological componant of the a traditional chemically based addiction is the greatest cause of recidivisim. There's little point to cleaning up the addict without dealing directly with the purely psychological traits that led the addict to consider drug abuse as a viable option in the first place.
If the alcoholic wants to be numbed psychologically that aspect itself must be dealt with.
KFG
This topic is a waste of time and bandwidth... I suppose this reply is not much better. I apologize in advance.
. . . admitting there is a problem. It's believing there is a problem."
Which is basically what I meant, if not exactly what I said.
I fairly recently lost my teatotaller sweetie of ten years to alcoholism. I found it fascinating the way she could deny her alcoholism and treat it with casual acceptence in *the same sentence* depending on which way her denial was flowing at the precise moment.
I also, of course, found it distressing the way she could dismiss her alcoholism with the statement, " Maybe I'll survive."
She hasn't been anywhere close to bottom yet, although she's seen it in her family members. Seeing doesn't make "believing" though.
I've seen her family members too. At least one of them didn't survive.
KFG
but rather for who he took them with. His "war stories" are a fascinating compendium of a "Who's Who" of the 50's and 60's.
It's by knowing him that I've gotten to wear Bertrand Russel's tweed jacket.
KFG
I once got laid with an Orc.
This already exists. Just go play some Magic the Gathering sometime, and you'll see how this operation works. You go out and buy all of these decks of cards and if you get lucky you get good cards, but then if you want to be really good you need to go buy all these out-of-print rare cards from other people.
The major difference is that the buying of those out-of-print rare cards, though a big cost, is at least going to other players. Instead of having the company screw you for all the money you become part of the market, being able to buy and sell these cards.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
is a free online multiplayer rpg. go play the MUD's - they free, oriented to pleasing you (and other players) and there are so many you are bound to find one you like. go AR!
unfortunatly this seems to be a trend with companies dealing in mmorpgs. I deal with it every day in ao. yes i admit i am quite addicted to the game. but the freinds that i have are far more important to me than them. It hurts me still the same to see freinds leave the game due to the forceful act due mainly base on player gripage of a bunch of casual gamers whineing cause they can;t become uber nerfing the population of hardcore players. Would be nice for a chance to see some one do something to patrol these companies yet i see nothing that you can really do cause the minute you try they change the eula and claim its been there the hole time.
is it me? or does this "article" sound like a rant from someome who got his character "nerfed" and can't muster up the willpower to quit?
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
That, right there, is the game in a nutshell...Yes, that's the game. What people get addicted to is the in-game chat, the shared experiences and what people share when they've got little else to do.
I wish I could shake your hand, not many can describe how stupid the game really is. In my case, I've played both Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot and found them to be utterly boring. I mean, I would never get past the 9th level before getting bored and deleting my characters. Since I'm not really social person, I was looking more for epic, grand quests with some story or purpose of being in this 12.95-per-month-world.
But I found none. People only get addicted because they join clans or guilds who are binded together for a purpose--chatting, fighting together, and having a virtual beer.
I have been playing online games since Warcraft II came out with support for kali. That is when I first tried it. I played a few games on kali and then I got grunt rushed by someone in two minutes. Then I got, as it is known in the community, "gayed" several times. This is basically exploiting overpowered towers and the AI behind how they are built. If you figured out how to beat these things you would then figure out that the only strategy left was lusted ogres and who could tower in and build the most, the fastest. I facetiously said "wow that's fun" and I never played that game on the internet again. I then set up a LAN with my brother and found a new love for the game. We would play cooperative against the computer or friendly 1on1s.
Then Starcraft came alone with Battle.net support. This time I stuck with it (partly because I was older I guess). I was determined to get good and climb the 1on1 ladder. After a few seasons all the game became was people exploiting certain imbalances to climb to the top and, more importantly, rise to internet RTS "fame". That is all the online gaming is about for a lot of people. They all wanted to be "famous" in the community and win at any cost. This is when I first experienced hackers and cheaters as well, but that should not be a surprise. I would not call this fun either. These people are addicted to the social acceptance and that is it. I suspect the game stopped being fun about two hours after they bought it for most of them. I also suspect they do it to attain this acceptance they lack in real life.
Now Warcraft 3 is out and I played that online for about half a year and not even close to as aggressively as I played Starcraft.
I have realized that you really cannot take online games too seriously. At the "hardcore" level they are only about positioning. Like the author said, everybody tries to exploit each other to get themselves a better position in the community/game. The game is NOT fun at that level. Almost everybody cheats and denies it (20000+ cheaters were banned in the first round of war3) and so everybody accuses each other of cheating when they lose. It is accepted to exploit any bug in the game/system to get yourself to the top. And, very few people are genuine and friendly. It's all a bunch of adolescent name calling and bullying to look good in front of the few people in a channel. Some people get frustrated if they cannot win enough (i.e. exploit) to get to the top and get angry. I have fallen into that trap on occasion. Others will resort to making the game as miserable as possible for others through any means possible (which is an even bigger problem in RPGs - see diablo 1/2 and any onling RPG style game).
Recently, I have got into a single player binge and I am loving it. I have dug out all of my old games and purchased a few new ones. Single player is awsome. It is competitive and addictive while still being fun. That is not to say that mulitplayer cannot be the same. The problem is as I have spelled it out above: There are too many ultra-competitive players, jerks, or both out there waiting to ruin the game. I had it right way back when Warcraft II came out. Set up a LAN with people you know or find a group of people online that you trust (they are out there). Then play the game how you want and ignore the jerks. Unfortunately, you can't do that with MMPORGs, but maybe in the future. As a Blizzard fan (how can you tell?) I am hoping World of Warcraft will deliver this. If you find yourself playing for any reason other than fun, maybe you should quit or rethink the way you play. I once heard a top ranked Starcraft player say "I have to be the best at everything I do and I practice until I am". What a sad way to live your life.
Visit http://www.freestandingentertainment.com
And those pansies at McDonalds pan out at a measley 180F.
Point being, an old lady -- having grown up with teakettles, etc -- should be the first to realize that they use hot water to make coffee.
We'd have a lot less lawsuit idiocy if the money from punitive damages weren't shared out between plaintiff and lawyer. Just a thought.
Will we stop accepting whiny submissions from sad Everwhores who bitch about how much they hate the game and how much it sucks, then sign themselves "Level 99 Goober-snitch". This isn't about Everquest, it's about a sad, lonely person who hates that they have no life.
I recommend a healthy dose of Progress Quest, getting laid, and spending less time on Slashdot as well.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Just a data point here.
Since when has Slashdot taken to posting an opinion as an article? If this loser is so "addicted" to everquest even with all his bitching i suggest he seek professional help. As for Sony "milking" the public with EQ, isn't that what a business does? makes money for a product? I can't recall the last time I read something so pathetic. "boo hoo boo hoo. I'm addicted to EQ because I can't perhaps open a book or interact with real humans. boo hoo boo hoo. Shame on Sony! boo hoo boo hoo"
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Here, let's try that with food:
Have people died while using the product?
EQ : yep
Smoking : yep
Food: yep (poisoning & choking, obesity, etc)
Do people spend more money the product then they have?
EQ : Yep
Smoking : Yep
Food: Yep (highly addictive)
Is the product marketing to children?
EQ : yep
Smoking : yep.
Food : yep (Cap'n Crunch, yum yum)
I found this rant absurd, because I played for fun instead of power. I was a master crafter in blacksmithing, fletching, and pottery. I had a friend who was a master baker. We'd make and sell stuff and then buy more materials. It was a lot of fun. When we were bored, we'd travel. The graphics were nice and the wide open skies of the plains were my fav. No SoW, I wasn't in a hurry. I got to see Treants and I made my own bow and hunted lions that I couldn't even see they were so far away. I'd sell piles of pelts for stupid money. I played at all hours of the day and night and never missed work or school. Often, it was a one player game for me, hanging out in zones with less than six other players. I think I got up to level 11. I can't imagine it being much fun beyond level 20. As an old MUD'er, I liked the graphics way.
:)
I quit to switch to DAoC. It was okay, but too well designed. There was no chaos in the works and being good at anything was so passe'. Finally I quit MMORPG's altogether because I got a life. But I'm getting rid of some friends to have time to play SWG. I can't wait to see all those planets and I can't wait to craft droids.
As far as the stereotypical lifeless male geek player, I played with a lot of housewives and professionals and others who were there to have fun. Well, time to get back to my so-called "life." Reading this almost makes me wish I hadn't cancelled my account. C'est la vie. If I had my suggestions, I would suggest that Sony never completely erase characters so that people could come back and play.
There are so many assumptions made in this article that are nothing more than one person's opinion.
From my experience, Sony has helped people as often as they are able. They do respond to both feedback and requests when able.
Sony hosts a quarterly fan faire where the game developers take live questions from the crowd and address all concerns.
Sony releases free content quite often including new zones, new interfaces, new features, all for free. Expansions are usually very well done, though a bit buggy.
As a player with 250 played days, I can state very truthfully that I have enjoyed just about all the time I have put in. While I have gotten frustrated at times, my enjoyment far outweighed it.
I have met many great people, many of whom will be friends when this game is no longer around.
Take this very biased article with a grain of salt. It is the opinion of a single frustrated player who should have stopped playing well before he got to level 62...
Loral Ciriclight
Healers United
Quellious
http://loralciriclight.com/
I agree with most people that your responsobility (sorry for my spelling)is your own concern. your own problem. this game is addictive.. so quit it!.. so i did! now thats not my problem. the problem is i cant get my friends out of it? why do i want my friends out of it? because im addicted to them! our pitiful existence wants us to hang on to something. else why do you even bother living? i remember before everquest. we had fun and we did all sort of social activities together. IN REAL LIFE! now each person still playing is loving the guild more than the friends. i cant do anything about it. i say "hey you comming to my 18th year birthday? its gonna be great. i hired a dwarf!". him : "yeah sure". person never showed up. why? HE WAS ON A RAID! therefore i have grown a core hatred to Sony and verant and whatever. even to some of my friends.
Im a game programmer myself and im ashamed to see what sony is doing. the game is crap. if only you know what is possible you would puke on the box. seriously. maybe i should wipe my ass with the manual! Also because of my hatred, im using most of my time trying to build my own game. made from the spirit of roleplaying. the fun stuff. not the stuff that grabs you around your balls - saying. gimme your money. gimmee.. arrr or ill squeeze your balls to tiny raisins.
Think about this. dont bitch about it tho. cos unlike bitching, this is having a point in it. theres meaning. giving up real life (good real life, not slavery or anything) for a crappy online game SUCKS! im not gonna use my oh so great intelligense to explain further of all my arguments and why and all. cos i cant. im too stupid to explain myself apprently. this is the best i can do.
I'm sure playing chess is a great social experience.
Yeah, get drunk and play pool instead.
Wha a whiner! LOL
Bet no one's ever heard of Habitat from LucasArts? Or perhaps Legends of Kesmai or maybe Realm? All MMOG's that existed way before UO and M59. Buncha kids on here is all there is.
Funny...you pay $13 a month for something which you can get hours of enjoyment out of.
The article above is very biased. Sure, the customer support isn't the greatest (unless you pay the $40 a month fees for the "Legends" server, but for your $13, you get as many hours of fun that you want.
What you decide is fun is up to you. To some, EQ is like an avatar-based IRC setup, with an adventure/fantasy twist on top. For others, those wanting to "beat" the game, they put in the hours and hours levelling up, doing the necessary quests, etc. However, the issue is this:
For your $13, are you getting a couple hours of enjoyment out of it? If so, then STFU. You can't go to a movie, get popcorn and a drink for $13 nowadays, much less for a whole month's worth of entertainment.
If you don't get ANY enjoyment out of the game, then why are you still there? Cancel your account. You say it's an addiction. It's not an addiction if you're not getting anything out of it. Drug users get addicted because of the "high" they receive.
Other than that, show me where you can spend $13 a month for a few hours of entertainment, regardless of everything in the game.
Im curious, how did you sell your account?
I once bought the game, played it briefly, stopped.
I managed to cancel my account ofcourse, but never sold the software+add-ons. I have recently been told, I cant as I used my registration code.
How did you sell your account? And what is a reasonable price for a used copy of EQ+2 add-ons?
thebeast
Ever since participating in the Google Compute's aggregate team for the Folding@HOME project, I have noticed myself checking every morning and night to see the statistics and find out how I am progressing in the team and individual rankings. This sounds similar to what a Progress Quest player would do.
Now, if we could tie the computing work being done by the Google Toolbar's GoogleFahCore_65.exe with a game such as Progress Quest, we might be able to give the masses of users a more compelling reason to "donate" CPU time to such worthy causes! This might be the tip of the iceberg.
Habits are different than psychological addictions. Almost all addictions have some sort of high that hooks you in. Whether the end result is good or bad doesn't matter.
You could be "addicted" to buying Chevies for their long-lasting durability or whatever, and this could be a good addiction. Should Chevy's quality shift it would become a bad one.
Habits are behavioral. They can be taught by your parents or by yourself. It is a different difficulty kicking a habit than an addiction.
With addiction, you are reminded constantly when you try to quit about that high you experienced when you first began becoming addicted. Your brain tells you that bad things could happen if you buy that Ford, whether this is completely false or not. It is a potential survival instinct, to stick with things that you know, such as a certain kind of fruit. It can help you avoid the possibility of danger when trying something different.
Habits can be taught away without your brain telling you that it could be bad. The difficulty is in coercing your brain to cooperate, not fighting it.
Just a bit of extrapolation on two confused terms.
Addiction is the word that 90% of the people in the world use to disguise their lack of personal responsibility. I dont agree that any game is liken to an 'addiction'. I have played the same MMO for about 3 years now(ac1 to those that care). The first year and a half I played, it would seem to some that I was 'addicted'. But when it came down to it, It was just a choice I made, one that alot of people make. The decision to escape rather than cope. It was more healthy(and cheaper) than persuing other 'addictions' (gambling, womanizing, patying...etc) and paying 12 bucks a month to be somewhere/someone else is chickenfeed if you are so inclined to dissasociate yourself with reality. I personally was pretty dislocated from my head and such when I played during those first couple of years, but addiction? No. You allow yourself to become absorbed...immersed as its commonly marketed as. For me, I ditched all my accounts but two (I think I had 5 at one time) dropped my play time to less than 8 hours a week (I once stayed up 34 hours straight playing) and found something else to do.
As far as sony's billing concerns, I agree that lack of customer service/communication isnt ideal for a company with an MMO to engage in, but I think you should be speaking with your wallet and urge everyone who agrees with you to do the same. As far as the 'ever changing game world', I.E. buffs/nerfs, dont take the crutch offered to you9if you are so inclined to still play). We all choose to play, so adapt or die. A good friend I used to work with (who was alot older than I was) told me about how he got into our line of work( I.T. Business) He was a carreer changer, he had to go back to school and learn a new trade in the electrician's strike of 1977. Adapt or die. Whenever I get the urge for 'immersion' now, I go read a book, or engage my girlfriend in a conversation, whose easily twice as smart as I. Take that 12 bucks a month, save it for 3, take your best friend on a roadtrip.
Actually, Everquest was based off DIKU.
They settled out of court with the authors of DIKU.
This yielded the very obvious and transpareny "no, they aren't using our code" web page found here:
http://www.dikumud.com/diku/everquest.asp
-Michael
Threshold RPG
Wow! Someone peed in his cheerios. I play EQ, I have two accounts, I have been playing for over two years. Am I an addict? No, I am currently in a non-playing mode and will be for a short while. I take brakes from time to time. This person that wrote this article is just having a hissy fit because something went wrong. Something so bad, he just decided to quit. Jeez! Give me and the rest of the world a break! First, not everyone (as you put it) is out to be the best and have the best. I have only a 45th lvl druid. I have played that same character for two years. With your labeling everyone being power hungry, I guess I had better catch up.
He's right, Everquest is just a game people, everything in it is a Computer Generated 3D Model, none of it's real, reality, theres excitement for you.
You are thinking of Starwars Galactic Battlegrounds which is based on AOE and a real time strategy game, and not SWG which is a MMORPG.
"Mob" is truncated slang for "mobile," holdover lingo from DIKU MUD code (which Everquest is in some part based on, the initial Verant team having run the DIKU-based LegendMUD and 'ported' a lot of features). It is not an acronym. It does not need to be capitalized.
My brother was living with us and he was supposed to be helping me work on programming projects and he got playing EQ and never did any work, though he would boast frequently about how awesome his character was.
He ended up flaking on the biggest and best project I have ever gotten and I had to hire another programmer to help me. He could have made over twice as much as he has ever gotten for a programming gig.
We had a couple of hard talks and he said he'd stop playing, but the very next day he'd play all day again, (or sleep all day then play all night) as if we never talked.
This project is still going now and I am whole __month__ behind schedule because of this. He never apologized. After one conversation where I had to "lay it on him" again that he was wasting time/life/money etc... he gave me back an advance payment. It seemed he felt a small ammount of guilt since I was paying for the house, electricity (fill in all bills here) and was also in the midst of a lawsuit with $6,000+ bills.
He has since stopped playing the game because he realized he was wasting his life, and has since gotten interviews for other programming jobs. But the time he was playing he has totally lost and has shown no remorse for basically screwing me over, ( I have been working 70 - 100hr weeks since to catch up, he still lives here so it's not like he's unaware of this )
It's like he was robbed of any sort of empathy at the time and he can never get it back to see the reality of the situtation now, then or any connection between.
My other brother had more common sense. After spending 2 hours straight pressing one button on his keyboard, he realized that Everquest just might be a complete waste of time...
I think we'll see a lot more MMORPGS come out, some come and go, because people want to interact with other human beings, not a bot, not a macro, not a program. I find a great sense of teamwork having 4-5 other humans from around the world,
*some* people - I find it a nuisance having to depend on others to before I can do things...
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I played EQ early on. I hated it. I got bored, frustrated, and upset very very early on. I knew friends that had played it much longer and that HATED it, and continued to play. So I stopped.
Then I saw that Micrsoft (i know, it's like a curse around here, but hear me out) was publishing an online MMORPG. A friend of mine and I decided that we'd try it, seeing as we liked a lot of MS games and series (MechWarrior, FlightSim, Age of Empires, and many others).
Lo and behold, Asheron's Call was the complete opposite of EQ in an MMO. Sure, they were both Online. And they both had monsters for you to kill with or without the help of other players.
But it had much much more. It had friendly players, it had options... you could go anywhere in the enormous online world and explore. You didn't need to be the highest level to get any enjoyment out of the game.
That's not to say you wouldn't get addicted to it... I certainly did. I played for over three years, though I never had to "camp" mobs for more than a few minutes. I only stayed up an entire night a few times because of the game, and not because I was sitting around waiting for something to spawn. I was talking to a friend from New Zealand, watching the gorgeous sunrise over a hill. Or exploring the ruins of some remote castle with a couple other friends and proclaiming it has our own.
What's best about it is that you don't get addicted because of this obsession with levelling. You get addicted because of the storyline, the gameplay, the people around you. You'll get addicted because the world changes so vastly in their *free* monthly events. After the first month, the "sudden season" event hit. Suddenly there was snow everywhere! And snowmen, and holiday items, and holiday events. It was an awe-inspiring experience for me, something that EverQuest never even hinted at.
There were live events where developer-controlled monsters would terroize towns, start quests, and interact with the players. There were massive player vs. player episodes such as the Defense of the Shards that has become so famous in the MMO community, where one server managed to defend the Shard of the Herald successfully throughout the entire month, believe that *that* was the proper action, instead of destroying it like every other server. Lo and behold, the shard released the demon Bhael'Zharon, and set off even more exciting live events.
And what's more? The developers at Turbine listen to the players! They've constantly added features over the last three years that were requested by players! When in the beginning they told players that "player housing wasn't in the technology"... 2 years later, after the players continued to support the idea, Asheron's Call became the first MMO with 3D housing, and remains the ONLY one to have it. They'll find ways to do whatever the players' need, and when something can't happen or won't because it will hurt the game, they come right out and say it. When massive changes are being made, they poll the users, and they make announcements several weeks in advance about massive gameplay changes.
Now here it is, over 3 years after the debut of Asheron's Call.. and I find myself addicted to the sequel, AC2: Fallen Kings.
And do I hate MS/Turbine like those EQ addicts hate Sony/Verant? As you might've guess while reading this... I do not... in fact I think Turbine has one of the most talented and creative developer teams I've ever known of.
But let this be a reminded the EverQuest is not the only MMORPG or MMO out there. It wasn't even the first, and it's most certainly not the best. In fact, in my eyes, it's the worst of the lot (although I'll confess I've never actually played DAOC or Anarachy Online - though DAOC seems to be a "better EverQuest", Mythic (DAOCs developer) seems to have a pretty crappy reputation so far).
But take it from me, if EverQuest doesn't suit you... try other MMOs. There are several FAR better choices.
I totally agree with David's post from start to finish. Nice way to sum it all up. What we do for the High End Game is crazy.
Anonymous Coward (because I'm to lazy to register do to being up late last night banging my head against my desk while killing mindless mobs in Vex Thal)
aka Kaona Sweetbalm
Lvl 65 Cleric
One wonders whether this guy actually plays a 62 Necro?
Yes VI, aka Sony but I'm old fashioned, have their issues but then again name a company that doesn't. However, unlike the said Necro who wouldn't have made 62 without buying the most recent expansion a month or so ago, I and most of my friends and acquaintainces still find the game fun if you go against the crowd and play it like it is supposed to be played, ie dungeons and new zones rather than the Kunark express, a power levellers route to the top. By going the non PL route you get to use and develop the skills that Dolalin says are non existant.
The correspondent forgot to mention that the new expansion has been almost universally praised due to the increased high end non raid content and the introduction of a teleport system addressing one of the games biggest time sinks. Also the changes to the UI of late and the removal of Hell levels has refreshed the game significantly.
Dolalin Bonewielder berates the timesinks in everquest as the bain of a good game. In fact the timesinks, if not used to excess as they used to be, are what makes the game immersive and so much fun. In the past travelling and the time required to recover corpses have been a major problem which with graveyards and the teleport system have been addressed.
Call me odd but games like DAOC which removed the time sink to a greater extent were shunned because the feeling of immersiveness was lost and it then became an expensive version of Diablo or the like.
Whilst I know of people addicted to the game I also know many that balance their time online and invariably the people I know who no longer find the game fun have stopped playing. So I think Dolalin Bonewielder could have tried some balance rather than the demolition job posted.
Wolja
Sarchasm: The gap between the creator of sarchastic wit and the recipient who doesn't get it.
PS I'm not a VAK or VI employee. Aussies don't get the chance to play either of those roles due to the constant patches in our prime time.
Wolja Future Tombstone: Shit happened then I died
As for Sony only being in it for the money... Erm, yes? Wake up, smell the coffee. Trust me, if they didn't make money off EQ, it would not be up and running today. Do they care about the players? Yupp, to a certain extent. They are not going to make "ubermob X" a lot easier just because "Twink B" from "Unknown guild 4" wants to kill it. Tough. Some things require time and effort to do. As it should be. What would be the fun in my level 54 enchanter running up and killing Lord Inquisitor Seru with my pet? None. Agreed, there could be some tweaking here and there, but Verant have already acknowledged their mistakes in this, and are working on it.
Guides? Yes, there are few guides out there, and honestly I am glad I am no longer one. Why can't people just shape up and act a bit humane? God knows. You have any idea what it is like to listen to whingers who got trained by such and such... Yes, there are logs, but sadly, due to tampering in the past, they are no longer accepted and the /report command was introduced. Learn to use it. It's reather helpful, and in my guide time I got to issue quite a few warnings due to players using it, and a few bannings resulted. As for guides being impotent... pretty sure I wasn't. Guide are there to help, on a limited scale. I had one help me today with a Kill Steal issue. No, they can't re-imburse items, but they can help with issues like stuck characters, lost corpses, bugged mobs etc.
Verant also announced that their GM strategy had not been very good and that it was to be changed slightly. It has. Every sever now has a Server GM (Like in the olden days) on top of the roaming GM team. Also, they have lightened their grip on the "reimbursal" policy. If something goes wrong due to an in game bug, you are more likely to get it resolved. Yes, it takes time... guess what, you're not the only one on the server, and sometimes these things take *gasp* time. I watched a GM transfer an item from one character to another (accidental ninja looted) and it took nearly half an hour. And that was just one item. Imagine if you were looking at a backpack lost of items?
If Verant has ANY problems with their servers, rezzes are authorised to be done by the guides to players who died. A guide can't just rez out of the blue. I have to say, I haven't had any proper server crashes with roll backs in a long time... The servers are in that aspect pretty stable. Or I might just be lucky. *shurgs* I don't know.
I suggest you go visist: www.girlsgametoo.com and have a look at what that half elf is up to... she's *gasp* having FUN in EQ, and will only log on if she wants to. Oh, and she's level 24. She has some of the best equipment in the game, and never seen any "uber" mob zones... How? She is creative, smart and has fun in the game. Try it... if you can't do it, I suggest doing something else... Perhaps spend some time with your family, friends and others you might have neglected in your quest for uberness.
Level 54 Enchanter
3 years and counting in EQ
There is no rush...
My brother got me into Everquest and now I am a level 34 druid and my bro is a level 54 wizard. We find ourselves talking about how bad the Dragoons are in the overthere, or how awesome the spell Kodiac's endless intelligence is. Its a whole different world you can enter. I like it because I can be noticed, I can be someone. Theres no feeling in the world like solo-killing a hill giant and still having 50% mana left. And when the parent message stated, "the one thing all players have in common is that they all hate Sony", I was very shocked. I don't have a growing hatred for Sony, nor does my brother, nor do probably half the players of everquest. i think sony is awesome if they could conjure a massivly played online game and have more than 500,000 people playing and paying only $12.00 a month. Which, I might add, is cheaper than the price you would pay for a monthy subscription to a magazine. Everquest is not addictive, its a hobby. You like doing it, therefore you keep doing it. You socialize with peopel from around the world, and thanks to Everquest i can type faster and don't have the look at he keyboard nearly as often. Well, i think I've made my point. If anyone has any questions email me at robotics__87@hotmail.com
OK, first thing - Yes - I am an anonymous coward for not wanting to create another account on another website for which I must remember another password just to get spammed moreso than I already am, just to say the following:
Mr Sanftenberg, aka Dolalain Boneweilder, cannot possibly be more contemptous of his own reflection for having written "EverQuest: What you really get from an online game". This entire post was obviously driven from the hatred he has of himself for enjoying Everquest, an online community game. This could not be made any clearer than how he rants and raves about Sony, community members (other online players of EQ), the support structure (GM's and Guides within the game, or how one must traverse themselves throughout the game - but then signs off as being a level 62 player (meaning he must STILL be an ACTIVE player - as they have only recently increased the level cap beyond level 60). If you don't like the game makers, the game players, the game itself - then stop playing. His ranting of how the game never ends and only rewards the player for more time spent playing, is an insult to everyone that placed quarter after quarter into a metallic slot so that we could play newer, harder, and more interesting levels of pacman - Qbert - Tron - Donkey-Kong - or(name whatever your game was back in the day). There is no true difference in the addiction that gamers have for EQ than those did for the arcaic arcade games of the 80's. Get real and grow up. Whatever it was that didn't go your way as a player of EQ...get over it and stop throwing a temper tantrum!! Jesus, especially if your going to continue to play.
The fact is this, Everquest is an online virtual reality AD&D type game. There are thousands of players on at any time of the day and is ever constantly changing (oh....but wait....that's like real life isn't it). You can always miss out on events in the game if you goto sleep instead of playing 24/7 (oh....but wait....that's like real life isn't it). As for the rewards for more time played and advancing in abilities, it isnt about time played. You gain rewards and advanced skills by showing that your character has grown to adequately use their current abilities and that you are ready to advance to new abilities (hmmm....again like life. Upon birth, you can't drive, vote, buy alcohol, own a house, or be responsible for a family.....they come in steps....as does the "rewards" that were referred about)
Is the game addictive? Yes....but ask my wife....So is chocolate! Do players refer to Everquest as Evercrack? Yes....but ask my ol' lady if I refer her as my wife! Does the game seem to get boring after having taking your character to a premier level that most wont reach? Yes.....but ask your wife.....she got bored with you and yet she's keeping you around isn't she? If she isn't, maybe EQ isnt for you then.
Jim Nickerson
Geil Kellelottendi
53 Enchanter (Player of EQ since 12/1999)
Erollisi Marr Server
Just another continuing complaint about the original post: I cannot believe that an article like this could possibly pose any merit to anyone with an objective mind. Mr Sanftenberg is obviously disturbed beyond objectivity, but yet felt the need to vent his frustrations upon everyone that would enjoy the game....instead of bucking it up to a bad childhood that we have all had to endure and wished was different.
Am I slightly biased? Yes....but that's life, get used to it!
I agree with you 110%! There is no such thing as a "perfect" game. Bad luck in the game happens much like you getting stopped by a train when ur late for work. Your job is a big timesink in which you get "rewards" for the more time you spend. More commonly known as a raise, overtime, or better yet, a christmas bonus! Arca 34 druid and climbing The Nameless Server
First of all this game is addictive because u play and u find a quest that u wana finish, that quest drives u on and on and u wolnt stop till ur on for 2-3 days with no sleep and u still didnt finish the quest. then once u finish the quest u notice it was a PREquest and u must now use the item/items u gained from that quest and use it to gain a item that may or may not be good, u gotta see.
Now ur gona tell me "its not all about quests" and im gona tell u ur right! quests arent the only thing that keeps u playing, leveling does!
Leveling is the game, u must level and level till u get 60 (now 65) and then u go and make another level 1 char and u do that over and over and over till u have 8 chars and cant fit anymore on that server, and now u make a new account so u can get more chars on that same server.
You keep playing to be the best, and the truth is u cant be, but u think u can, sony hides that from you.
Basicly u keep playing because u think getting 65 and having the "best" items will make u satisfied, then once ur almost there BOOM a new expantion comes out, i noticed this when i was playing on my 62 monk and since then i havent played, gave my char to my bro, who denys that hes addicted.
Peace hope that answered ur question!
I think the original poster was wrong about pretty much all he said re sony's designs of the game in order to milk money and disregard players.
Anyone remember MUDs? The free predecessors to MMORPGs that people coded and ran for fun? They also had obscene mobs with rare drops. And player interaction and arguments that were left alone with no intervention, as they were often hard to verify, and too much of it was grey area. And they never ended, and hade quests with "timesinks". For balancing issues, etc, changes were made by the coders with no advance notice and which often drastically changed or nerfed things.
There was no money factor for the developers, they didn't tweak the things to be addictive -- they were just that way by nature of the type of game they were. Sony simply made a mud (tons of the emotes etc are taken from stock MUD code, for god's sake) and put it online. Anyone who played one would know what I mean, I'd wager. A lot went into development, the servers are huge, and sure, they charge for it. But they put it up as a MUD, made it available -- you want to play it, you play it, that simple. They're not trying with all their might to screw people. Get over it and have a little fun, eh? 8)
The first issue I have is that he's stating the obvious. Sony is out to make money. Well,.. duh? I don't think they made and maintain the game for fun. Why does the writer think he's so much more enlightened than all of us, assuming that we cannot also see that the game loses fun, becomes monotonous, and gets boring? We cannot also realize that?
:)) and have fun.
An obvious thing he points out is timesinks. But there's a problem there - what is to be done about timesinks? Should all quests take 5 minutes? Is that not also a timesink, but just one of shorter duration? Should all bosses be available immediately and slayable within seconds? Without even going into how silly and unrealistic that would be, why would it keep people playing, if they could accomplish a goal in seconds? Did you not have to play all the way through Deus Ex to find out how it ends? Was all that before it a "timesink", or was it the journey? I take exception with the comment, "Unlike the other parts of the game, these timesinks are required for advancement, and there is no getting around them unless you wish to stop playing." That is simply not true. That is the way HE CHOOSES to play. No one and nothing in game dictates that you must follow his path. I have a mid-forties level bard, am in a fun guild with several friends I enjoy playing with, and I don't worry about power playing or advancement. I just run around (really quickly!
I'm not arguing that he doesn't speak some truth - but to make it sound like the game is a crazed monster under the control of an evil wizard that attacks and consumes people in their sleep, robbing them of their lives... well if someone's that dumb to let that happen to them, then that's their own fault. Isn't it?
Frankly, at the end of this article, I'm left saying, "so what?" What purpose does this article serve? Will it stop people playing? Will it stop all forms of addiction in the world? Will it change online gaming forever? Is it something fresh that's never been stated before? Are all we readers suddenly enlightened? No? So......... so what?
I've played EverQuest from the start... I've loved the game from then, and I still love the game. Its important you recognize that 12.95 a month to a company developing countless games isn't going to give them the money they need to staff 45+ servers. Its not happening. They have mostly volunteer service, and a few GMs for these servers... The support is there from that alone. EverQuest is a hell of alot of fun, but play it as you will. Whats your goal?? The game doesn't have to be played like a mindless power drive, but many people do because they are so obsessed with being the best - don't be. I know i've been having a blast lately. Last night I led a raid on Lady Vox with one of my lower level alternates. In fact, i've been leading lots of raids, helping friends, *gasp* roleplaying. Now for the costs... yes, I play on legends. Yes, I get 2-4 GM events a day which I attend usually. Yes, I get short petition response times by GMs first hand, and yes - I pay 40 dollars a month to play EQ. Remember though, the innate cost of providing for that is high. The volunteer guides on non-stormhammer servers __DO_ try their _absolute_ best in order to help, but they are part of a political web and do not have the power to handle issues as they arise by themselves, because of the obvious exploitation that would occur. If you want more GM staffing, want more content development, want more events, and want to enjoy EQ more... start bugging SOE for a medium ground server between legends and regular cost, and secondly for enjoyment - play the game as you WANT to play it, and if you can't play it the way you want to - don't play. Lastly for Roleplayers, go to firiona vie - there are some excellent roleplayers on that server.
I played Everquest for 3 years.
It was fun at that time because it was the only MMORPG I knew.
After more games where developed I started playing them but they never had that 'addictive' feeling I first got from Everquest.
Now a few years later I found the game for me, Its called Ac2. Its great! It does away from the stupid things that EQ has...like running back for a corpse, loosing exp. upon death, etc...
This game has it all and more, at 1st it looks simple enough but later on you really get to understand the wonderful complexity and yet simple to use features of this game.
I suggest that if u are tierd of EQ then give Ac2 a try.
Ac2 the new 'drug'.
I've been playing EQ for years, and it's still fun. The guy who wrote that article just wants to blame someone else for the "problem"...HIS problem, and libel Sony in the process.
Wow! Such a bitter review! I would like to note however, that the person who did the review claims to have a level 62 necromancer. This is one of the highest levels in the game. Apparently the game doesn't suck bad enough for him to realize this before he has invested so much time himself.
Furthermore, and most importantly, he and many of the other posts fail to remeber this: IT'S JUST A GAME. Its role is not to fulfil everyones needs, its role is to exist as a pastime for you to enjoy it AS IT STANDS. If you don't like it, then quit; just like you would if you played baseball and hated it. You'd think the reviewer was being forced to play the game. I personally enjoy the game immensely, It's to bad this guy has painted it with such a slant.
I don't reply much - but on this I have to People play it and love it because its fun. Simple as that! Doh! not like half the bargin basement crap in PC World which was oh so hype 1 year ago. Or any new (insert title of next supposed Everquest beater game). How do I know. I worked on games for a few years myself. And I can appreciate it for what it is. It's the people who play make Everquest fun. Nothing else compares. It's like old D & D from years ago without the dice and tabletop models. Then again 20 years ago people said the same thing about D & D. I love it and so do hundreds of thousands of people. Don't these critics get it.. We like it. We feel its the best damn game out there! Oh and by the way you critics.. No Im not a 300 pound slob work works for a pizza company. Yes I've been playing years Yes me and my wife play. Yes I am 'Uber' Yes I do have a happy social life And finally Yes I am a well rounded person who likes occasionally living out Toikenesque fantasy. And what is wrong with that. People who play grew up on those stories. Give a break, Its a smeggin game and thousands of us love it.. Or what it is that people have to pull things down that are successful. Gee... enough already
I've played for two and a half years with a lot of different characters ranging from lvl 10-55, and I can safely say that I have only experienced maybe 20% of the content in this game. Please tell me, what other game can offer this? The complexity and depth of gameplay is why people enjoy playing EQ, and the social aspect. Most games aren't involved enough to keep someone's attention for more than a month or so.
So finally someone comes along with a game with 'legs' (ie, *replay value*) and they get trashed for creating an adictive game?
I suppose if you ABSOLUTELY have to be the best and have the best gear on your server, you might see the game as a losing battle and come to hate or resent it if you didn't have the time to gain those things.
But, most people use EQ as a way to relax, to waste time doing something other than watch TV, and hang out with friends. My suggestion for the author is that he drop his high power guild and try playing with friends and doing something new and enjoyable for a while, like exploring areas you haven't seen, playing a new class or server, holding events with friends, or (*gasp*) helping someone who's new to the game learn the ropes.
Or if the game holds no joy for you, then its an easy "addiction" to cure. Sell your account, and be done with it.
I think all the people who despise Everquest are people who mainly play games that have that large blinking "GAME OVER" screen at the end.
I understand that there is no 'end' to the game (it is called Everquest now, isn't it?).
I don't plan on ever 'finishing' the game. I play because I enjoy the interaction. I have been playing for 3 years and never once have I 'needed' to speak with a GM.
I can think of one time when my server crashed that I sat in a chat room waiting for my character to be reset.
Everquest is a game, just like any other game. If you don't enjoy playing, don't play.
"Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."
Everquest didn't become a cultural phenomenon by being a boring, repetitive game. Any game has a certain repetitive nature to it. The trick is to bury it into content and make it interesting. Everquest has done that in my opinion.
If you have been playing so long to ignore that content and only pay attention to the repetition, that is no ones fault but your own.
That doesn't make it a bad game, it makes you a bad player.
--wal (many characters at many levels, on many servers)
It seems to me the writer of this is the one with issues with Sony. I've been playing EverQuest for almost two years now, and in no way has it "consumed" my life. I'll admit that Sony's customer service isn't what it used to be, and it has never been what it should have, but I didn't start playing EverQuest for the customer service. Obviously the writer of this played EverQuest for a while, got screwed over in one way or another and because he him self was "addicted", or just too damn lazy to get out of the house and find a new game, he got pissed. I get an extremely large amount of entertainment out of EverQuest, just because I can talk to cool people and play the game with them. 12.95$ a month, I agree is kind of ridicules but at least I can play a game where people don't accuse you of being a cheater every half second, and the jerks are the minority. The writer of this STORY is an angry person, the type of angry person that one might call a jack ass. If some one was to not play EverQuest then they might assume that the essay was correct, I know better though. It's unfortunate that some of the stuff described in the essay does sometimes happen but it is not an accurate representation of the majority of the people, and the GM's that make EverQuest such an entertaining game. The fact that people get angry, for one reason or another, when they play EverQuest could be said about any other game, but aside from that if you have a problem with a game, or the people in a game then don't go writing essays just to hear your self talk. Shut the hell up and don't bitch about it to any one that will listen, because if you do that then you're just as bad as the people who ruined the game for you in the first place.
First there are a few concets that you need to understand.
1. Computer games are just that, 'computer' - 'games'. They are run on computers and deveolped on computers. That means they are all based on binary mathematics at some point. Which means things are right or wrong, complete or incomplete, black or white. There is no maybe, no 'kinda' and no almost. Even with the most massive computer systems powering advanced AI software it still comes down to a one or a zero.
2. All computer games are run on computers. And just like any other machine made up of that many parts they are prone to failures. At some point in time either your machine, their machine or a machine in between both macihines will fail. It is a fact of life.
3. Any game, action, or performance that requires the interaction of more than two individuals in the same location (virtual or in person) is bound to bring out the worst in them. It is an iherent flaw in human design that requires them to show off and attempt to be better than everyine else, at all costs.
If you understand all of these concepts and can deal with them accordingly, you can easily excel and enjoy any computer game, even the dreaded and most loathed, Everquest.
If you can't understand and deal with all of these comcepts please stick to games like tetris, pacman and donkey kong. If you feel you must participate in any modern games such as Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot and Warcaft, please refrain from any commentary. Just quietly stop playing the game and leave them for the rest of us to enjoy.
ok stop complaining... you dont like the game... then quit you dont have to talk to any of your "eq buddies" anyway when u quit bc you wont be on eq to talk to them. the story about sony and verant... they are genious. to have a game where u have to pay for it, pay to play it, and buy all the expansion packs, and the fact that the game never ends is amazing. my friend john and i discussed your message. you do have some good points but shut up already... its a damn business which created the game not some gaming nerds from some no name town. they are in it for the money just like every other business out there. i dont see anyone complaining about how u gotta pay like 9 bucks to go see a movie and u cant stop it if you have to use the bathroom and how sometimes the movie gets messed up and how overpriced the food is at the movie theater. ITS A FRIGGIN BUSINESS GET OVER IT!!! because of this bs you get people killing themselves and their families blaming it on EQ. you got people losing their jobs and blaming it on EQ. thats their own f&%# ups, not Verants. People die everyday from cigarettes but cigarette companies only provided u with the freedom to buy cigarettes, they didnt force u to try them or force u to keep smoking it. what happens in your life because u decided to smoke cigarettes is your fault. I met my best friend from EQ. I stopped playing for awhile and so did he. I didnt stop talking to him because i didnt play EQ anymore. the fact that i must be using him is pure BULLS&^%!!!!!!!!! stop whining like a little kid and if you dont like it go back to playing go fish with your grandma!!!
Wow, I hope you never try to hold an intercession for someone.
This kind of attitude is actually very harmful. The attitude of "the addiction is your fault," is horrible.
Psychochemically there is actually little difference between what you dub chemical addiction, and addiction to joy. Stimulate the pleasure centers in your brain and it wants more.
Now it's been a couple of years since I had psych, but let me see if I still have this right. A dopamine reaction occurs to supress the stimulation (which is what happens with all nervous stimulus). The dopamines are designed to terminate the stimulation, and are quite necessary in a healthy brain because otherwise you'd still be laughing from when you were tickled at birth.
Some people's brains are a bit over-zealous at producing dopamines, and so produce a glut of them after an intense stimulation. That means that later stimulations are absorbed in to the dopamine glut before any measurable stimulation can occur. This is a state, when applied to pleasure and self-worth centers, known as depression. I speak here specifically about pleasure center depression.
In order to rise out of this depression, one must stimulate the pleasure center, and in classic Pavlovian learned style, when one has separated themselves from the particular stimulus that sparked the initial pleasure and subsequent depression, they learn, largely subconsciously, that when one is engaging in this activity, they experience pleasure, and when not engaging in the activity, they experience depression.
Therefore, to the subconscious logic processors, there can be only one reaction: something that this activity provides is essential to existance, it's time to stimulate the desire centers for more of this.
Those who exercise this activity in moderation at all times, even if susceptible to addiction of this sort, due to highly zealous dopamine output, will not have induced high enough pleasure from it to really suffer from the later depression. In fact, the over abundance of dopamines is far easier to experience given long periods of moderate pleasure, rather than short bursts of intense pleasure.
Those who can successfully always practice in moderation minimise their susceptibility toward addiction of this sort. It's those who cannot or do not do this that become addicted.
For those who suffer badly from this, they can no more easily separate themselves from this activity than you could voluntarily stop eating. Their body has identified the activity as necessary toward proper functioning, when the activity is absent, deep depression and longing occurs. This now frequently translates to a state commonly known as "obsessive compulsive behavior," where yes, a person "can" prevent themselves from engaging in a behavior, but in actuality, they cannot, no matter how hard they try, their psyche is simply too dependant on the behavior, in a very chemical way.
Whether or not the person becomes physically ill, instead of merely mentally ill, is irrelevant toward the conclusion of whether or not the activity is addictive, there are merely different symptoms depending on which chemicals are present or over present in the body.
"If you can't quit its because you made it so, because you are a weak person." That is a horrible horrible statement designed to demean those who actually have a problem with this.
Now for a little exercise to help you understand the compulsion. Stop breathing. That's right, hold your breath until you pass out. Don't worry, it's quite safe, when you pass out, you will begin breathing again. You "can" do this, it's physically and mentally possible. I defy you to. In the same way that breathing has been determined by your subconscious to be a positive behavior that removes unwanted carbon dioxide from your system, and supplies wanted oxygen, these addictive activities remove unwanted dopamines and supply wanted stimulus to one's pleasure centers. Breathing is based in your brain stem, it's why you can continue to do this while sleeping or not thinking about it, but it is also a voluntary and motor-simple behavior, while engaging in addictive activities are voluntary and motor-complex behaviors, thus not capable of being managed in your brain stem, and therefore being voluntary yet unconscious behaviors.
Let me know when you've successfully passed the breathing test. If you can't do this, then it's "because you are a weak person," "it's your own fault, no matter what, there is no one to blame but yourself, you are defective." Your addiction to conscious breathing is because "you blessed it" and were too weak to prevent yourself from doing so. And even if you do successfully force yourself to pass out, wasn't it horribly difficult? Many other people cannot do this no matter how hard they tried... they are defective.
One final note, not all diseases are viral or bacterial based. That's a flawed assumption. Alzheimer's is a disease. Cancer is a disease. Downs Syndrome is a disease. Arterial plaque is a disease (heart disease). Addiction is a disease. They are all disorders of the body, therefore a disease. The final two are even environmental, and frequently cancer also, all with out requiring dead rats (unless you got high cholestorol from eating dead fatty rats, or cancer from hanging out with dead radioactive rats, in which case you have a bigger problem, I think, than your heart disease).
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
Ok i play EQ i have been playing it for about 2 years i graduated from high school i am working and i still play it. It isnt a place where people go to be wanted it is a role playing game where u become that person and play. Like why does it have to be everquest yes people say they hate sony or verant but i say it too and just joke around. There are the few eq junkies but most people aren't. I have accually gained some some knowledge form playing EQ. Like new terms. just cause u prolly suck at eq and got a newbie dont make the game sound bad. Pick a game that no one like. Like a game u prolly like.
I started playing EQ about a month ago, first problem was that they charged my CC right away, after a few e-mails i got my money back quite fast (first month is free for those who didn't know). So far I have had next to no problems at all. Only a few bugs, which don't really annoy me that much at lower levels. I don't play to get levels or items, I play because it's fun. I do quests and such, of course I like getting exp/levels and neat items, but that's not why I log in. Maybe in a couple of months I will get addicted to it, but I have some experience with a few online games (some MMORPG's) so I certainly know when to quit, especially when it costs me money.
I don't actually have a point here, I'm drunk etc.
Just trying to say that I don't think that anyone is actually "tricked" to keep playing.
Btw, I got EQ + 3 expansions (all except PoP) for about $35 here in Sweden, that's pretty inexpensive imho.
Happy new year you wankas!
I've read a lot of the posts here, and noticed that most treat "addicts" as if they are a minority. In the world of drugs, perhaps. In alcohol, possibly. In gambling, maybe. But in MMOLRPG, hardly.
The truth is that people that wouldn't touch drugs, are afraid to drink too much alcohol too often, and don't want to lose their savings in gambling are often the same people that are heavily addicted to MMOLRPGs.
This irony for those of us that play is that we realize that most of us are addicted at some point. Our ability to refer to the game as "crack" humorously exemplifies our bond.
What I never suspected until MMOLRPGs is that perhaps everyone has the potential to become an addict, not just certain personalities. It could just be a question of what you are willing to become addicted to, or put another way, what you allow yourself to indulge in, unwittingly releasing your defenses to addiction.
Thus, when I read about people saying that it is just "addicts" that have a problem, I suspect that either they don't really have experience in these games, or they are suffering from severe denial. If you took an anonymous vote from the gamers who played for over 6 months, I believe you'll find that most can testify that the game is addictive.
My name is Anonymous Coward, and I am an AC-oholic.
The leaders are just "leveling up", preparing for something really nasty... hope they've got the uber weapon by now!
Microsoft's X-Box returns policy is excellent. I had one of the crappy first batch that had the disc problems and their customer service department went to the trouble of arranging a replacement, with shipping both ways.
They even threw in an extra controller and a few games.
Here's another comment which basically is an extension of this.
This article hit EverQuest right one the nose!
The only reason I played as long as I did was because of friends I knew, and eventually Verant pissed me off enough for me to quit.
Verant is an evil corporation. I imagine the workplace of Verant is comparable to that of Office Space; where pople only work as hard so they don't get fired.
The game is run by people who don't give a rat's ass about the word "RPG". It's clearly evident in Druids, how they got everything known to man except melee capabilities!
I hate Verant. I think this is the one thing that I truely hate. The complete disrespect to it's customers is surprising.
My friend died, and went to retrieve his corpse *the same day* and it wasn't there. After waiting 3 hours for a GM, he was notified he couldn't get his corpse back, and instead was given a "leg up kit". It included a set of NO DROP raw silk armor and a newbie beat stick. It didn't give him any leg up at all if your wondering.
In conclusion: I hate Verant I hope someday that people will realize how terrible of a company it really is.
Me: Is that bad?
Article: Well, no, it's good design... but the company that runs it is terrible! Terrible!
Me: How so?
Article: Well... uh, they made an addictive game!
Me: And that's... bad?
Article: Yes! You have to camp mobs and run around to a lot of places... uh... and do lots of stuff that adds up to nothing! Plus, their customer service is awful!
Me: Oh? Examples?
Article: They won't punish people who train me unless they have proof that the other guy did it! People spam me and they won't make them go away! The environment is filled with competitive people! There are not enough referees to police the populace!
Me: That sounds terrible. Why do you play a game filled with these losers?
Article: Haven't you been listening? I'm addicted! Here's what I said: "They are addicted to the mobs, to the loot, and to the social atmosphere with other people in their guilds. They have invested so much time in these characters (often hundreds of days of play time, sometimes more time than they spend at their jobs), that they can't will themselves to give it up."
Me: Now I'm confused. You hate that the game is filled with competitive jerks, but the social atmosphere is why you stick around. You hate the repetitive killing and tedium, but you can't leave the mobs and loot?
Article: Yes! Now you see!
Me: Okay. Now, I notice that you play a 62nd level Necromancer. You must have put in a lot of time to get that high...
Article: Yes! And oh, how I've been nerfed over the years! Once my mighty pets were the envy of all who beheld us! They feared my kill-stealing might! Muhahahahaha!
Me: Um -
Article: Once I strode across the land alone with my pet taking on all comers without being saddled with pesky group members sharing my exp! Dragons trembled at the thought of my presence! I could solo Vox and Naggy!
Me: Um -
Article: But then Verant - damn their stinking hides - Verant brought down the nerf hammer on me. They made it so I could not attack Vox at level 60! They nerfed my pet! They made it so that I was forced to group with others to get the good loot!
Me: Well I think -
Article: Oh, those whining group-mates... 'Give me mana!' 'Don't take the good loot!' 'Keep you pet under control!' How I loathe them, interfering with my good time. Where is Sony's customer service, to keep this rabble away from my on-line, non-social fun time? Where, I ask you?
Me: Listen, maybe I should leave you alone...
Article: They're evil I tell you! Evil! They make money!
Me: I have to go wash my car anyway...
Article: Did you hear me? I said they make money off of me! How dare they make a game that keeps me coming back day after day for three years...
Me: It got real dirty after the snow, so I better wax it too...
Article: Every day for three years. All night on weekends too. Raids take a lot of time. They owe me! They OWE me!
Me: If you could just lock up when you leave... ah, never mind - I'll close up after I'm done with the car.
Article: Where is my prize for having played so long? Where is it? Did you know that a new player can pick up all the expansions for about $60? I paid twice that, buying them new! It's not fair! That's not including all the money I paid for the second account so I could dual-box...
Everquest presents no inherent danger for the vast majority of people who play it. This is because the vast majority of people who play Everquest are not hardcore players, like I once was, and like the author of this article clearly was/is. Rather, the vast majority of EQ players are casual players, like my fiancee and the dozen or so of our mutual friends who play the game. My fiancee will generally play Everquest once or maybe twice a week, for only an hour or two at a time. Very rarely, as in once every two months, she will play for an entire evening or night, but usually this extended play session is a result of some sort of real-life social function, such as Everquest LAN parties and the like. When I sold my account in November of 1999, I had played for over 1400 hours, most of that in the three months following the game's release. My fiancee has played less than a tenth of that in all of two years. I quit because the only goal I had in-game was to advance my character, and meaningful advancement, even in those early days, meant sitting in on raids for 10 or more hours at a time only to stand a fraction of a chance of getting some item that would only incrementally increase my power. The amount of time the game was asking from me to accomplish even the smallest thing was far too great when compared to the reward I was being offered. My fiancee, on the other hand, and all of our Everquest-playing friends, don't seem to care much about being on the cutting edge, about being in the top tier, about being the first to explore new areas and to conquer new challenges as they are released. They seem quite content and happy to muck about in areas of the world that hold no new secrets to decipher, whose monsters have been killed literally millions of times over, and slowly meander through the game at their own pace. There is no pressure, no pain, not the faintest hint of any inherent danger or addictive quality waiting to swallow them up and turn them into Everquest zombies.
I have actually heard a rumor from a number of people that Verant hired pyschiatrists when creating the game in order to make it addictive.
i played EQ for 3 years, and I finally quit half year ago before PoP.
the reason i quit is because i got hacked and i couldnt find any GM, i tried for almost a month, i emailed more than 300 emails and everytime a different GM request informations, i email back with my infos and some other GM picked it up and say they need more. i got really furastrated and quit the game, thats where i started to hate SOE.
I have been waiting for GMs 3 day straight in game and none shows up, camp for items more than 5 days, lucky i m not cleric because my friend camped for ragefire for almost 3 straight weeks. before kunark the game was pure fun, where everyone group and other, after kunark it was still fun, where they added epic we thought was finishing the game and work hard on it, but thats where the "camp" started, but it was still fun where we kill mobs and stuff, but after velious level seems everything that matters, people have to keep farming items to make themselves "perfect" instead of enjoying, but for n00bs its still fun since they never realized how much time you have to spend just to keep your gear up to date, and the armor you use to be the best now is no where near a twink item, SSoY was the best item before kunark and nowdays a level 1 bard is wielding it, very common, lot of level 1 bards have better twink items.
where is the fun at? i tried to quit for long time, where i end up playing more, i wasnt guilded for pretty long time due to the bad reputation on training people, i really didn't mind since i have better items than most people on my server, i was a monk, and other people just wish they had my items. there are bugs that VI never fix that can make up to 67k plat an hour, i dont know that bug but i surely made over 17.5k an hour, that was my record and keep my plat coming fast. n00bs farming items day by day, night by night and not realizing VI really dont care if you exploit bugs, n00bs always have fun in any game, i play WC3 now and i hate n00bs on my team that has 23 wins and 500 losses, well, they have fun.
and oneday i decide to take a break, few days later i found out i got hacked finally made me quit, it was a bad thing i lost all my items, but i really thank that guy who hacked me becuase he really saved my life, i tried to go into other games but none are out, and finally SWG was about to beta phase it charges me 11.98 for beta CD, i was like WTF, i paid 3 bucks for warcraft 3 beta CD and paid none for E&B by downloading.
then i look upon SWG's forum, they are really slowly mind washing people to get into the game, the way they do it is really trying to get people to like the game, of course it is highly developed game and you can say probaly have some new battle system but seriously, they reveal the content little by little, giving whats not suppose to give just add curiousity to players that will end up paying maybe 20 bucks per month.
they say they are giving a Single Char per server service now, by the time they say fine we are giving multi char per server, the players will actually thank for them for what players are suppose to get, money is all they want, and they want to spend as little as possible....
I am looking forward for World of Warcraft, i played starcraft for 4 years and still getting same customer service when i started, 7 million SC being sold, and WC3's storyline really amaze me. oh well, good luck for those still playing EQ
Well I have been playing EQ for a few years now and have to mostly agree with the original poster..Altho he seems to Hate VI/EQ/SONY, I just dislike them and wouldnt buy EQ2, SWG etc. I dont post this out of hate and Im not trying to start a campaign against EQ..Im just posting my experiences with it and if you dont like it..o well.
..Your just paying for Lack of Content.
Customer support for EQ is almost nonexistant. First there is Emailing a complaint. I have done this 2 times and one took 24days and the other took Over a Month. The first Email complaint they didnt want to solve even tho it was completely there fault ( some daylight savings bug that didnt allow there servers to save ) saying that they didnt have the logs etc...Well I then filed a complaint with the BBB and within ONLY 3 days I got a reply that they checked the logs and are returning the item...hmmm. The 2nd one involved a Ksing ( kill stealing) issue and all they did was give me the run around there...first reply took over a month then every week a different gm emailed me saying blah blah blah we cant help. They didnt look into it...talk to anyone involved in it..they just simply did nothing. For Online CS you petiton and wait for the sorry we cant help you Thank you and good day.
Some of you sit there and say well why do you keep playing if you dont like the company. I dont know about most people but I have been playing for the last year because of the people I have met while playing EQ else I would have quitted then. Most People in the End Game Lvls are addicted to playing for that reason...To be around there online friends..to chat..to do things together..Hell ive met one of my best friends Playing Eq.
Most games are addictive and I like building lvls, increasing my character and being with friends doing it. But the low lvl everquest of lvling fast and taking a few mins to get an item quickly turns to high lvl everquest of lvling once a week, getting a very small upgrade on your character ( if you play a good deal) and doing raids with 50 other people..spending 2-8hours (If you even get a chance considering the other guilds who want and if he *pops* on your time instead of Euro times) to get 2 or 3 items If you actually win the fight. The Endgame should be hard but theres no other way to put this
>>ALL of what the original poster stated is true altho he could have posted it in a better way.
LOL...LOL oh my oh my.
:) It rocks doesn't it.
...once gain... you have a life?? ..cause to me that is not my idea of fun. :)
,and i have yet met a person out there that doesn't flip on a tv...though have heard of a few who have 'given it up' but NEVER have i ever seen a house without one, Watching either the news..which not one of you can't say is very depressing.. or quite frankly a fantasy. Flip channel to channel and all you get is ugly or fantasy of course unless the Animal planet is your thing and even there you see killing. For the most part it is a waste of time unless you happen to find something educational. AND WHY THE HECK IS THERE TV...well to make money of course. Any fool could tell you there is alot of money being made with television.
...you guess it for hours each week. Anyone here can honestly say you watch tv for less the 2hours a week I applaud you! But the rest of you 'time sink' complaining peeps please actually sit there and contemplate how much television you have watched this week...BE HONEST!
I do have to first off thank everyone for the very interesting reading.
Now I have read everything concerning everquest from how it is as addicting as drugs to why my son killed himself..to what a time sink it is..and how that people that play have no life so they make a fantasy one..Complain moan gripe all you want.... Freedom of speech on the internet
NOW as a wise Aunt once told me...~~~LIFE IS BASED ON DECISIONS~~~..from the big stuff all the way down to if you should eat a M&M or chocalate chip cookie, and you must be accountable for them all.
Do I play EQ? HECK YES. And I have 2 high level Characters so I think i can speak with some exp on the matter.
Do I have a life? I have to say I have a very busy life with kids and a family that I do care for. And while All parents make mistakes sometimes, My kids are for the most part healthy and well adjusted little cute people.
Are there problems with it? Depends on how you play it. Personally I have never logged off angry
or mad or frustrated or screaming at Sony.
Are you sure
Well, if your idea of a life is going out to a bar every weekend and sitting there getting drunk and having a massive hang over and feeling like crud all the next day..then no I Have no life
I do have friends, I do go out once in a while. But mostly I play when the kids are napping or at night to relax before bed.
Besides that I am busy as heck. So you decide
Is it a time sink?
Once again how do you play it...to me TV is the Biggest time sink of them all. Picture this..you relax with a drink and a snack or nothing at all and stare at a square box
There is no interaction..just staring at that box your eyes glazed over
OH and yes I do flip on a tv..but come on peeps I don't see you Screaming about peeps who watch TV.
At least I find this game stimulating as I have to instead of just sitting there watching, actually having to THINK about my next move. Might meet someone I chit chat a little with as we group. Sure I am killing monsters...sure it isn't real. Hey the next person sitting next to me chatting might be full of it. LOL but hey! If you keep that in mind what's the difference.
I have never done one of the quests 'long gotta sit for hours to kill a mob' and I can play just fine. Yes i have been to the big 40 to 70 people raids and gotten nothing out of it but a big kick out of seeing a high level monster. And expected to get nothing more..and had a blast at DYING. I find it totally great and amazing that so many people get together and WORK TOGETHER to accomplish a goal of getting a big mob. Why can't that be as entertaining as watching the 'bad guy' on TV get defeated?
Do i play the game alot. Hummm not anymore then i read or would watch tv or some other mundane to fill the time task.
So I don't see EQ as evil devil worshippers. NO way LOL I know i don't..and while there may be some on game...for all I know so could one of my next door neighbors.
And by HOLY I at least have to use my brain to do it!
So complain..gripe...do whatever you want..but if your saying it is anyone elses fault but your own for having a bad time and/or one of the other MANY MANY complaints...you just can't quit cause you put too much time into it.. THAT IS YOUR DECISION AT LEAST BE ADULT ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH IT INSTEADED OF BLAIMING EVERYONE BUT YOURSELF!!
obviously he needs one of those 3 month breaks I am fond of taking. Does wonders for your enjoyment of the game.
Main problems with the current EQ as objectively as I can list and make it:
1. Forced grouping at higher levels. Druids and other charm fear kiters continue to try to kite in high level zones usually causing the deaths of others toons en mas. Monks and other soloers nerfd to FORCE grouping.
Why make everyone group? Soloers are a large portion of your users many people made a warrior cleric shaman enchanter for when they felt like grouping and made a Monk, Necro, Mage, Druid, Wizard for when they felt like trying to solo the game in its purest PvE sense. Why take this away from everyone who enjoys soloing and make them three times as likely to train people when failing? A better question is why put animal class creatures in PoN at all? The zone is Flawless and nearly the ultimate perfect EQ zone excepty for the charm kiting idiot Druids. In fact make all creatures in PoN uncharmable please the sky the creatures all balanced perfectly and things are going great then wham there goes another idiot Preserver training and kills your group of course.
2. The Monk Nerf. Why do it? Ok fine it needed to be done but probably exactly half of what was nerfed was ideal and that went too far. Period.
I used to solo 4 sarnaks dark blues with my 27 monk prior to nerf before significant downtime. This involved kill one start on second from 3/4 health start start on third at 1/2 health and use mend to get back to half health and take down a fourth. Bear in mind this required centi warhammer and fbss etc average to good twink gear which many people may not have or afford.
Now WITH above average twink gear I am lucky if I can take down two without having to FD to not die on second and that includes using MEND successfully. Having to sit and wait for health after each kill is ridiculous. It seems unfair to use the amazing ability of a certain class like the Iksar Monk to suck people into buying your expansions like Kunark and then yank it away at a later date. Tuning YES sure of course -great Bigazz nerfing NO! Stop it! Dont you EVER learn?!?!
3. Spells in general - Magic game should not have the spells you need to play as the primary reward for playing its an endless loop of sorts. I need spells to kill things to get spells to play better to kill bigger things to get better spells because I need them to kill bigger things. If I dont have the bette spells people wont want me in their groups and I cant ever expect to get a fooking GROUP you BLODY ==IDIOTS== is that clear enough? Spells ought to be cheap and they ought to be available. I dont even object to the stupid ethereal parchment idea just that they ought to be COMMON drops you blasted MEGATARDS!
4. LFG! - ok well 56 mag lfg blah 56 mag lfg yawn 56 mag lfg zzzzz 56 mag lfg bleh 56 mag lfg doh! 56 mag lfg yawn 56 mag lfg nuf gee this is really worth $12.99 plus tax uh huh.
5. Too many expansions! Five count them Five separate software packages. These guys are worse than Microsoft and just as worthy of a good lawsuit for abusing their users. Whats worse is the means by which they make it almost required that you buy each upgrade. Oh you dont have pop sorry then you cant be in a Raid. This is core content you evil freaks everything else including the new spells all being NO DROP at the vendors was fair but making the RAID window exempt people from going on raids with their guild until they buy your latest expansion went way over the line of fairness to your users. Be warned they play very dirty like that.
6. High price. $12.99 is a LOT to charge for an online game which is prone to lag spikes and you can lose three hours or more worth of game experience in two seconds because some druid wants to try to solo ravens and sony has made that nearly impossible for them and you die and pay for it with your agony.
7. Terrible horrible service. $12.99 per month and literally thousands of players on each server - you do the math. With 5k players average per server thats 65 thousand dollars per server per month they are raking in and they wont even pay a few thousand to have a full time GM to handle user issues. They spread them out over several servers and give glorified players called GUIDES no power to assist you with your problems.
Oh your body fell through the world when you were zoning. Sorry I know it took 2 hours for someone to get back to you on it but the GM says if you cant prove it we wont be able to help you on that.
Oh you had some stuff poof on you or some quest go awry on you and waited hours for us to reply to your petition, sorry the GM says if you cant prove it we cant help you.
Oh you have some other player causing your death by training you with mobs, sorry unless we see him do it we cant do anything. Maybe if an entire guild swears to what you all saw we will tell you we are adding a comment to that abusive other users account but we are probably just bullshitting you.
These are the sort of things to expect when you play this game. If you can have fun despite all of that its a great concept and can be fun and meet some nice people (very few of them but those few are quite nice).
8. Guilds - you will be REQUIRED to have a guild to enjoy content. What do guilds require of you?
A. You should never gate from an encounter despite being out of mana to cast spells and near death and wanting to log out of the game you are EXPECTED to stay and die and sit there glued to your screen for an hour waiting for someone to ask if you are ready for a rezurection so you can click yes and resume your dungeon crawl.
Stupid..
B. They will demand quote loyalty. This typically means you will be on the end of a list of people trying to do "EPIC" quests and you get to help all of them get their EPIC and right about the time it is your turn there will be a crisis within the guild of some sort and it will probably fall apart and you wont get any help with your quest.
C. Greed they will demand that when lucky loot drops that there are people somehow more worthy or ahead of you in line which should be bestowed and granted this loot just because they are greedy leaders of a guild and bigger assholes than you had originally anticipated or ever dreamed. It sounds something like monster killed ah crap special loot we all have better stuff you lower members all roll your dice see who wins this. Next monster dies ohh the special pants we all want ok which if my special favorite members doesnt have one of these yet. OK go ahead its yours everyone else go fook yourself and whatever you do dont gate teleport out of here even if your toilets are overflowing and your kids are on fire.
People who spend their lives praying for Everquest deserve what they get. I'm sorry but I spent alot of my life online looking at that game and realized, thank God, that it IS addictive BUT only if you let it be. Sony's got a good way of drawing you in and, by the time you realize it, it is hard to get out of it. I just finally took all my CDs and manuals, all my EQ junk, and threw it out window into garbage. All I can say is my life has never been better. Thank you Sony for showing me what you really think of us.
The thing that bugs me is the fact that they blame customers for using the world the way it is. If there is something that is not working as they intended and you find it and use it, they call that an exploit and ban you from the game.
This is supposed to be a simulated world. It is kind of like God sitting up there and seeing the Wright Bros take off and say "!" That weasnt supposed to happen and nerfing fligth.
Be glad that the game has evolved beyond what yall saw and reward creativity.
Bottom line I agree with the post that says:
If you don't like the game DON'T PLAY!!! If the game is not for you then don't ruin it for EVERYONE by slamming it. Just say Oh I don't play that game because it just wasn't my thing or I really didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. Why do we as humans seek to impose our thoughts wishes opinions views beliefs etc. on EVERYONE ELSE? Do you like it when someone tries to force THEIR opions to become YOUR opinions? Same with this game. There are tens of thousands of people that really enjoy this gameand there are equal numbers that do not. Everyone has their opinion. Let's all just get along.
I enjoy EQ (and DAoC) and play as often as I am able while keeping up with REAL LIFE. It may not be as often as I WANT but hey that's LIFE! Deal with it or don't. Up to you.
Gaeathorn Daeth
Ranger of the 43rd Season
Proud member of The Elite Force
Veeshan Server
Well,the reality of the entire game is that you play online with outher real people, and that player simply dont care about one another. As he mentioned being trained by other guilds, I could see that as begin over looked if it were an isolated incident and for a reason (such as the time zone explination) but in most cases its just one group fighting for an advantage. If guilds stopped being so personaly competeitive and just had some respect for each other, the game would be hundreds of times more enjoyable. Honestly, all everquest players who read this, should try to follow the golden rule. If you see some poor starting player being attacked for something, help em out. If someones a little short on experience, let them join your guild and help them advance. Strength is not in any one person but in numbers. And if everyone is just playing to have fun, you'd be surprised how gratifying it can be to have another player thank you for giving them a rare item, etc. I personaly have yet to play it, but despite reading this article, i want to. It seems that if taken lightly it could be very fun. As far as Sonys lack of support or proper testing, there is no excuse. A very interesting idea would be the use of Apprentices and Masters, a Master wouldnt have to earn his in any other way but to come within the skill of his master. This would allow him to train and help others. There are many possible solutions to these problems but i believe that they will not be addressed in EQ2 or in SWG because of the companies behind them and the lack of customer support. Maybe someone could convince Sega or Rare to produce a very similar but, MUCH better title. Just my thoughts
You forgot one:
He LIKES complaining about it all. He is obviously very concerned about being the very best complainer there is.
Then what is your motivation to keep playing? You have nothing left to hold on to. Might as well just stop playing.
Up until just recently I had played EQ since it came out. I played at my own pace and got as much fun as I wanted out of the game. I have characters on a few different servers and never felt the need to pay for the premium service. My main character was a 43rd Rog with a 25th bard as an alternate. As some of you can tell I didn't fall into the leveling treadmill that most EQ players do. I would have like to see my rog hit 60 but by the time I quit he wasn't going anywhere.
Why did I quit the game, not because it wasn't fun, I still had a lot to do and it still held my interest, but me and my friends, who had started playing whith me, found something better (Earth and Beyond). I joined the BETA for EnB and loved the concept and so far they've been pretty good about fixing any problems they've had. I even got back on EQ a month or so latter to see what had changed and I found that most of the people I knew were no longer playing so I canceled my billing cycle and haven't been back since.
It's not a question of addiction to the game, in my case, as it is a love of the genre. I'm sure I'll drop EnB for Star Wars Galexies or City of Hero's when they come out. I still play pen and paper RPG's as well, on a weekly basis. I like RPG's when they have a level of realism behind the fantasy. As far as I have experienced, MMPORPG's have been the best attempt at adding that level of realism so far and EverQuest was simply the first to pull it off well.
As with most new gaming genre's, the first titles to really define the field are usually shown up by the new generation. This is a problem in MMPORPG's because you can't just make a sequel and use new tech's because it is a large expense to keep up the infrastructure to support a game of that type. True they are making EQ2 but how long has it been, 3 or 4 years, since EQ first came out? That's like an eternety in the gaming industry. So the best they could hope for is a few expansions and hope no one came out with anything that was actually better than putting a new face on the same game.
I'd write more but Real Life calls (yes I have one).
The problem I had with this article is that Sony could care less if you where actually logged into the game. In fact, for server loads, they would probably prefer you to never log on. All they want is to keep you hooked every month, for 13 bucks a pop. They couldn't care if you were level 65 with the best equipment and all your AA's, or if you just couldn't seem to get level 20; as long as you keep trying, month after month then you're ok.
As for the timesinks; I think the main reason these things are here is that, in an online world, you gotta think about how hard it is to make a game where people compete, but doesn't involve any kind of skill per se. The only way to do this is, or at least the only way Sony found, was by patience. Puzzle solutions are easily found on websites, any kind of skill such as tactics or reflexes make it the wrong kind of game, one that can't be played by just anybody. The only thing you can do online is the waiting game; whoever is willing to sit on their duff for 8 hours+ camping some stupid mob, is going to have the better character.
While the time spent camping mobs and whatnot isn't all that lucrative for Sony, the time spent competing for the best character is, because it never ends. So as long as people strive to dominate, month after month, then Sony will continue to prosper.
-Chronocide
Of course, the sad thing is that this time is already "wasted", since there can never be a conclusion to these games.
Ah, so it's a sunk cost. Well if there is one thing I got out of that one economics course I took it's that SUNK COSTS ARE IRREVELENT.
Suppose motorcycles are really cool and I buy one for $50k. A lot of people do the same. Next a whole bunch of people ridding motorcycles get killed. So now nobody wants to ride/own a motorcycle. Now I realize that I don't really ride it very often and I go to sell it. Supose because of the reduced demand the market price is only $10k. Now I'm stuck. I can refuse to sell it at $10k because I paid $50k but really then it's still worth next to nothing to me (because I don't use it). If I were to accept that sunk costs are gone and I can't recover them then by selling it at least I'll get $10k.
- chuck
When I read article like that, the first thing that come to my mind is: Why this guy put so much money into this game if he didn't like it? COME ON !! WAKE UP!! If you don't like the game, STOP PLAYING... yes it is THAT simple. Don't tell me you invest too much time (and money) into your character to stop! What about that level 62 Assassin in Diablo 2? That took quite some time and I don't hear you complain that you didn't have fun! Games are an entertainment, YOU stop when you want too! You don't agree with Sony politics, STOP PLAYING. But, for the love of everything sacred on earth, if you keep playing, stop crying everytimes your level 52 cleric don't get what he wanted in the next patch. Please remember that Sony is not suporting Everquest to make your little self happy, but to make money. YES, MONEY!!! Not happy? Stop crying, stop playing, buy yourself an Xbox, that will give you something else to cry about :)
They're giants in the TV and game console industries.
It would have cost them all of 5 cents to add two extra game ports to the PS2. Why would they want to do that when they can make a $30 accessory (the multi-tap) and sell it to any poor fool who wants to play 4-player games.
Same for Everquest. They could make it free, but why when they could make $50 extra for every poor sucker who buys it and becomes addicted for 3 years?
Update the graphics or add fresh content? Bah. Let's just release some expansions. People will still buy it.
The same thing happened to the Rainbow Six and Sims franchise... how many expansions have we seen for those damn games?
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
now Diablo 2 there is a game addicting as all hell and free. good old blizzard
First of all, this article could have been summed up to about 1/4 that size if it were written with conciseness in mind, ie;
/. Sony in it for the money? No, I don't believe you. Come on- Sony, any corporation for that matter, has one purpose - it is to make money, for its shareholders to be more specific. It happened to stumble on an innovative combination of elements, and charges a fee that is in my mind quite fair for the amount of engineering required to provide the service and enjoyment I personally receive from it. Compare it, for example, to what satellite or cable services provide for even basic television- something that requires no *engineering*, purely *integration* of off-the-shelf broadcast television equipment (where the equipment investment is one-time, not ongoing development as in the case with EQ). You're upset about the amount of entertainment you get out of the $12.95 a month? Feel free to go back to TV land at $20, $40, $80 a month. TV free? Oh, i don't know if you've tried to get antenna reception recently, but around my house I got about a half a channel. I happen to find the combination of EQ and dvd rentals much more enjoyable, and i'm saving money. Call me an addict. Have to say it strikes me as odd that you are simultaneously criticising the $12.95 a month as too expensive, and the fact that Sony is cutting corners in how it spends its money. You know, head to McDonalds if you want to eat cheap burgers that have been frozen for ages and made from sweatshop condition meat processing plants, but it really takes /. readers for idiots for you to whine about how it's not filet mignon or even draw attention to the fact that there is a relationship between amount paid and level of service expected. Complaining about bugs in EQ? Lets just take a look at some of the software out there in wide use today; essentially every month new bugs and security backdoors are being discovered in every piece of software that gets really massive usage. Name the piece of software - windows, solaris, oracle db, arcade games. Granted there are differing efforts towards squelching the info depending on how much the community needs the info to go on successfully using the product. Unfair comparison? You folks know that the video game industry bypassed film entertainment in revenue 2 years ago right? This level of software is complicated as heck, and I have a hard time reading an expectation that this level of software should be both perfect (if not just perfectly balanced) and free.
- EQ is addictive (supporting points)
- Sony is out to make as much money as they can (supporting points)
- EQ players are mean (supporting points)
Did any of the arguments not fall into this categorization?
To respond; EQ *is* addictive to some, with the sort of typical fearmongering sort of codependent buzzwords applicable (others "supporting" the addiction but really using the individual to feed their own addiction); the same sort of arguments can certainly be levelled against Gary Gygax and original d&d, football, quake/its like, sex, or soap operas for all that matter. Valid but wholly uncompelling line of argumentation on its own. I've heard oxygen is incredibly addictive.
Sony's deep, dark profit making motives. I'm really surprised this level of journalism is enough to make it onto
Side note: as far as your arguments that most of the game is simply a time sink designed to rake in cash/loot, I suppose it could be played that way but I find it to be a whole mix of things. Creative challenge, real life stamina in terms of amount of effort required to get some of the "uber" items, mental focus to push yourself *with* your character-- which is quite a different playstyle from sitting around farming some easy mob for cash and buying your awesome weaponry.
EQ players being mean. Mr. Necro, it's worth mentioning here is that you've chosen a class *specifically* designed to be the best solo class in the game- the class mastering the magic of the dead- one that is also most susceptible to "malicious trains" since being solo, you are the class least likely to be grouped (where a train could be dismantled before causing others harm), or to have great ability to evade from a train if "feign death" fails. You also failed to mention even the remote possibility that a train may be accidental in some cases- or, in the vast majority of cases, as i have seen. Or the fact that players in 9 times out of 10 shout "HEY WARNING TRAIN INCOMING GET OUT OF THE WAY NOW OR RISK A NASTY HORRIBLE DEATH FROM THE LIKES OF %t" to the whole zone before they train, and clerics generally offer free 96% xp ressurrections if they were party to a train that happened to cause unintended harm. Now if a necromancer gets slayed ignoring those warnings of an accidental train hoping to save their pet (something that, sadly or otherwise, is in fact lost on leaving the zone), I'm not sure I can generate the same amount of sympathy towards you as in the case of the hypothetical malicious trainers you villify.
Have to say this is one of the least balanced pieces of writing i've seen on slashdot. But it is nice to see the internet's true colors shining through every so often.
Yindyan Trueblade 52 Paladin Torv server
I think the article is trying to explain WHY you shouldn't play. I.E. If people don't know what they're getting into, they are at a disadvantage, and this is simply more info. So don't be such an ass
I hear people complain a lot about how they don't like clicking Autoattack and then just waiting for the fight to be over. Unfortunately, clicking and waiting comes with the territory. You trade off self-control of your character for power. People like knowing they can click Autoattack and they'll be alright, because their character can handle it. If you left all of the actions and attacks up to the player, you'd have more problems. A lot more mistakes, and people not knowing exactly what to do. They wouldn't get smug in knowing that they can handle any situation because they've got a brickwall character between them and their situations. Whether this is good or bad, no one can say. Sure, you might be pissed off that you lost a duel with someone just because your avatar missed one too many swings and there's nothing you could do about it, but that's the way the MMORPG genre goes. If you want to control your character completely, then it's time to look for an online FPS game. Otherwise, appreciate the fact that whoever you're fighting against, be it a college student, the undead soul of Bruce Lee, or the will of God, your geeky self and your character can still have a chance to slaughter their characters simply because there's very little room for player error.
it certainly sounds like you have the whole picture figured out regarding EQ. I must say that having played the game everquest for over 2 years that the biggest thing i have learned is that there are alot of people that cannot see the game for what it is - A GAME. people that post negative comments about the game clearly need to remember that is is just a game, if you have become addicted to a online game then you need to see a doctor because if you can get hooked on a game of anykind then you will get hooked on anything that you do in life good or bad, example drugs,alcohol,work,ect,ect. many of your points are incorrect in that you do not need to spend anymore time playing the game then you wish too, you can and will get nice items and good loot with small amounts of game play as well , just not as fast as those who CHOOSE to play longer then you. I have several 50 plus lvl chars and can honestly say that i never camped a mob or boss for more then 3 hours ,and that was for the jboot quest and yes i got the item needed for the boots , I was doing this because i wanted to do it not because verant / sony , or anybody else made me i could have shut the game down at anytime and carried on with my REAL LIFE something I strongly think you need to get by the way. I have a wife and 3 children that are my real life I PLAY as long or short as i wish too.Your comment about verant and sony wanting you to stay online allday because it makes them more money is false , remember we all pay the $ 13.00 a month to play which is the standard for the online games like any other business they dont care how long you play or even if at all as long as they get the $ 13.00 a month . that is business. again remember this is just a game so before you think you need to spend 19 hours a day camping a mob to please your Guild you must also remember how to exit the game , you dont need the best of the best to have fun playing this game and you dont need to buy the expansions that sony puts out about once a year either I know many players that do not have all of the expansions and we all have FUN,.You posted
on the 27th of december is it safe to say that santa did not bring you an expansion touching off your unfair trounce against sony /verant / Everquest ? It sounds like you need to remove yourself from the computer life for a bit as you get consumed in something that is only a game to the point of posting a 3 page rant on problems with the game when the bigger picture is YOU HAVE A PROBLEM and need to seek some help for it before it gets you in trouble it is called compulsion, please never drink, do drugs, gamble , or have children as your mind cannot handle these things. In a perfect world you would have the best of the best and be maxed out on all of your chars and have 2 million pp in the bank and be king of Everquest problem is and i dont mean to keep saying it but i feel i need to - EVERQUEST IS A GAME . if you dont like it leave it. and please do not try to open peoples eyes when yours are clearly closed. thank you.
Beautiful.. just beautiful.. I play EQ too, and this commemt just warmed my heart... this is exactly why I (and other people) play EQ... This is what makes it great! I was almost laughing with pleasure of remembering my EQ experiences (3.5 years) while reading this.
This deserves a 5!
Remember kids, tin foil doesn't work, so use LeadHat.
You cannot discount the power of just plain quitting. Whining that you WANNIT WANNIT WANNIT to be perfect doesn't make it so. You should have left the game a very, very long time ago.
Disclaimer: I left Ultima Online 2 months after the beta out of frustration with stability and player killing. I simply decided I would not pay anyone for the abuse of such an unstable game that was publicly endorsing player killing.
It all boils down to bad development period. The game structures need alot better design. The design of the most the online games is BAD period. They are not well thought out. NO! they aren't! There is a based rought draft & most the stuff is added as they go along after release. Servers should be dying by the amount of people on them. Learn how to design your network. There are so many numerous issues that arise. You really think a coder knows how the network structure works? Doubt it. Most of them can't assemble their own PC's.
It's simple, as long as people pay for this they will create more. You can beat them by not buying & or paying for their products.
I have a personal hatered for Sony. Has nothing to do with Everquest. But that is another story.
I must say that as a long-time player of Everquest, I disagree with most of what you say in your article. You provide a list of problems as though they are absolute facts, rather than matters of perspective or opinion. I will try to be brief, and hit only what I consider to be the high points.
1) You claim that Sony is in this to milk you for all you're worth. I don't think you provide any evidence that this is the case any moreso than it is for any other business. The purpose of a business is to maximize profits. I think it is silly to condemn Sony for wanting to make money, and I don't think there is any evidence that they try to do this at the expense of the enjoyment of their players. The traditional complaint is that if Sony cared about their players more than money, then they wouldn't have nerfed class X, or they would change issue Y because players request it. I think the flaw there is that people assume players know what is best for the game. While some players may make reasonable requests, the majority of suggestions I hear would only please people temporarily. Players tend to suggest things that are overpowering, even if this is only subtly. If the game becomes too easy, people will not play it. Just like in a game that has cheat codes you can use -- they're fun at first, but they get old fast. I think Sony recognizes this, and they are very reluctant to make changes that make the game too easy. I'd rather them err on the side of caution.
2) You claim that the game ceases to be fun. In my experience, it only ceases to be fun to a certain type of player. That sort of player is the one who derives enjoyment only by gaining items or levels or whatnot. They never really enjoyed Everquest, they just enjoyed achieving goals they set for themselves in the game. Eventually they come to a point where achieving those goals becomes very difficult, or the goals take very long to achieve. The players become disgruntled and complain that the game is no fun. However, some players (myself included, but I'm not alone) enjoy the game for the game's sake. I like being in the world, I like hunting mobs, I like exploring, et cetera. Levels and items are nice, but they don't control my enjoyment of the game. And I don't feel entitled to every item in the game, as some people seem to. Because one person can get it, some think, then I deserve it. I think people who don't find the game are setting themselves up for failure, and I don't think there is anything Sony can do to change this. If they made leveling easier, or acquiring items easier, or whatever, then these players would quickly progress through that and then they'd have nowhere to go. They'd be bored instead of frustrated. I've got multiple post-50 characters, I've been playing for over 3 years, and I still find the game fun. I'm not alone in this.
3) You claim that the game is a competition between players. This *can* be the case, but it doesn't have to be. Yes, camps and mobs can be hoarded by groups of players. However, in my experience, there are always plenty of empty zones you can go hunt in. As long as you don't have your heart set on a given mob or item or camp, then you don't need to get caught up in that nonsense. Only the people who hunt exclusively in the crowded zones or who are fixated on getting the absolute best gear have to worry about these things. Now, you may object that it's not as easy as just up and hunting in an empty zone, unless you are a soloer. I disagree. It's not very difficult to go to a crowded zone, find a group of LFGs, and convince them to go hunt in a less crowded zone. Usually people are eager to do it. And you know what? They often remark that it's the most fun they've had in the game in a long time. Unless they're the sort of people who only want to be in groups that get the uber drops or the most efficient experience possible. And as I said, those people are setting themselves up to be unhappy anyway.
I guess to conclude my feeling is this -- the game is what you make of it. I don't think there's a single class who hasn't complained about being nerfed, one time or another. "Sony hates " or "Great! I guess I may as well delete my , since they're useless now". It's funny, though, how new players after that point don't notice any problems with their class. It's only people who've grown used to it being a certain way. People who are willing to adapt and enjoy the game don't stress over that sort of thing. In my time in Everquest, I've both agreed and disagreed with the rationales Sony has set out for doing certain things. However, I've never felt their actions were malicious, they've always seemed to be done with good intentions. And they've never made a class unplayable or unuseful, despite the complaints to the contrary. I still enjoy playing both the high-end, mid-range, and low-end game.
"There is only one step from the sublime to the ridiculous." - Napoleon Bonaparte
It is due to continually hearing stories like this one that I will never play a MMORPG like evercrack. It is so sad to see ones life taken from them. Being an accomplice to such destruction knowing the game is not fun. To those hopelessly addicted I have to say "give it up, just see what its like not to play for a couple weeks. you'll find u have nothing really to lose and everything to gain."
I've got a ClieNR70V and have never had any problems with it other than a tendency to lose its data if you let the batteries go extremely low (which is easily avoided and easily remedied with a quick hotsync) and the general envy it causes among my techno-geek friends, although that's not so bad either ;]
David Sanftenberg aka Dolalin Bonewielder,
You are a whiny f u c k i n g bitch. Your entire rant could be cut down to a single sentence:
YOU: It's just not fair....
Wah. If you hate the game so much, just quit. Save your cry-baby bullshit for someone who gives a f u c k.
Your statement is the opposite of the truth. Addiction is "Psychological Addiction", period. Some substances such as heroin, caffeine and chocolate(to take an example from the original poster's list of non-chemical addictions) work a direct chemical change on the body to which it becomes accustomed over time. This acclimatization can greatly increase negative withdrawal effects. It is not however the case that only substances which produce this acclimatization are addictive. In fact, most so-called psychological addictions can, in certain cases produce physical withdrawal effects at least as potent as those observed in "chemical addictions". In fact, in scientific studies of "chemical addiction", the physical acclimatization has been shown to be one of the least significant factors.
On another note. To all those people who say that if you want to stop an addictive behavior, you simply need to stop doing it: you might as well tell a schizophrenic to stop hallucinating. Addicitive behaviour is not under direct conscious control. Behaviour patterns which have ceased to be rational can not be corrected by rational arguments.
-transient0
cognitive scientist
lysergically yours
But capturing one ends the game with you victorious, the other just facilitates that victory. Nothing you do in EverQuest ever brings you even one step closer to victory. Indeed, every single action you undertake is meaningless "in game".
There is no story, the npc's don't know you, there isn't even any story. Leveling up only serves to let you waste more of your time leveling up again with a different item in a different area, oh joy!
EverQuest is not an RPG, it's a glorified chatroom with a graphical interface and a subscription-based fee structure. The only ones who assign any importance to your actions in the game are the other players: you never stop armies of orcs from invading a kingdom, take over a castle for your own, or do anything with an impact on the game world. Each and every monster you slay will just be back later, leading to groups of people camped out waiting for real life days to wack some poor npc who may or may not drop the piece of "phat loot" that their guild "desperately needs".
Arx Fatalis is an RPG, so is Baldur's Gate and Morrowind. Why? Because you play a role in the world they are set in. EQ is the same whether you play or not. If your character suddenly ceases to exist there is absolutely NO impact on the game world, because there isn't a story for you to impact, just pointless leveling.
EQ graphics were never amazing, and compared to modern titles -to put it bluntly- they look like shit. It makes me wonder what the last game these delusional people who think EQ looks great have actually played. A game can have bad graphics and yet still excel through depth, complexity, the intangible fun factor. But combat where you can leave and do something else (like watch tv) and not have any effect on the outcome is pathetic, not fun! Look at titles like Rune or Oni if you want to see melee combat at it's finest. And if spellcasting is your thing, Morrowind lets you create your own spells, enchant your own items, or brew your own potions, and Arx Fatalis features a spell system far more complex and interactive than seeing how fast you can press buttons for memorized spells.
EQ can't stand on the merit of it's graphics, and it certainly can't stand on it's gameplay mechanics. Interaction with other players is the only virtue it can boast of, but if you want that, join a chatroom. The only people who win at EQ are the people taking your money.
I couldn't agree with you more. Playing EverQuest is akin to reading really boring book as a group while the author sat there and kept adding pages to the end of it, all the while charging you for the dubious pleasure of the experience. It's like the never-ending story, and I don't mean that in a good way.
This guy is obviously just really bitter about EQ and quit for real for the first time not even that long ago. Good for him, sounds like he needed a break. Yes EQ is not a normal game, and for many its addictive and can be destructive to their real lives. As with any other addiction, it lets people "escape" their 'real lives', and it does a damn good job of it. Did I mention people get addicted because they love playing it? For many, It's not a game, its a virtual life. If you're a parent, pay attention to your kids and don't let them get into what you may consider an unhealthy addicition. But take some accountability. You can choose to not play it. There's a warning on the box now. It's your life, run it the way you want to. You might regret your decisions and how you spent your time, and if you want to let the world know, that's fine. But let it be known that not everyone's having the same bad experience you are. Some people have the self control and the wisdom to distance themselves from it enough to run their lives the way they want to. I'm loving EQ and when that stops, I'll just not be playing it anymore.
We see addictions in all aspects of life. TV, alcohol, and nintendo. Addiction is simple the inability of a person to control their interaction with what they are "addicted" to. So they have to avoid it all together. This is the persons problem, not the distributor. You don't like it, leave and do the 10 steps.
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At the worst, you pay around 13 bucks a month. (That's if you pay every month; there are payment options that allow you to buy multiple months for a lesser overall cost) Considering the price of the game is dirt cheap now (You can pick up the original Everquest for around 7 bucks), your payment is really negligable. So that's 13 bucks a month for all-you-can-eat gametime. That's not too bad, considering Sony is losing money on this. It's similar to the X-box's 'lose money to sell units' plan. Do you have any idea how much it costs to run one of those beefy servers? It's a ton, and I read (this was a year or two ago, mind you. The cost could only have gone up.) that Sony needs around 5,000 players per server to maintain the costs, and not until recently (the past one or two years) have they been able to really meet this.
Despite this, Sony has provided a fantastic game. The interface is bug-free, the worlds are 99.9% bug free, the lag is low, and the content is very high. The expansions are cheap and they provide many, many more hours of exploring to both the casual and hardcore gamers. And plus, the writer of the article tries to insinuate that you NEED the expansions to play. Hell no. You don't ever have to buy one expansion if you don't want to and still have plenty of game on your hands.
I could go through and dispute his other points, but my post is getting long enough. Frankly, if you don't like the game then don't play the fucking thing. Vote with your wallet and play one of the other thousand MMORPG's floating around out there. Otherwise, just play the damned game and stop trying to make such a huge deal out of it. It *is* still a game last time I checked and not some strange online concentration camp. You're free to go whenever you want if you're unhappy. Just chill out and enjoy yourself. :P
I like my women how I like my sugar.. granulated.
ROFL! This has to be the funniest thing I've read on the internet for years! I'm laughing so bad I'm crying.. great stuff!
I agree with everything stated about the game of Everquest in specific as stated in the original article. Especially with the advent of other online games of the same type Sony has bothered less and less to actually try and provide service to it's customers. I have no idea why anyone still plays the game as it is now, especially since if you need your "fix" you can get it in other games with much better service, gameplay, and nearly everything else.
Which brings me to my own point: It has been derived from this article, if not stated in it directly, that "If MMORPG then utter and complete disregard for you the player". I don't think that's supported by the arguments here. Everything stated about EQ is true (I have freinds who are in the "high level game" and won't quit despite hating the wastage of time, and myself I got up to 40th level a few times...which is of course not high level yet...but at any rate) for EQ, not necessarily for all other games of it's type.
For example, another game that I played for a long time and eventually quit was Dark Age of Camelot*. In essance the same kind of gameplay as EQ. You made a charachter avatar. you could have several per account. These would go forth and hunt "mobs" for items and experiance to increase levels and thus be ready for harder "mobs". There were many differances between DAoC* and EQ, including an indicator to how much experiance one was obtaining, both by easy to view bar progress and numerical breakdown (whereas in EQ one was left unsure which "mob" gave the best "xp"). Many features like this made the (still fairly tedious) level gaining part of the game easier for the player, as well as game design that made combat interactive and more complex than hitting a button and going to watch TV, all of which make it more fun and less of a chore. At earlier levels in particular one was also not as dependant on groups. Furthermore "mobs" were not as rigedly set as in EQ, so people could kill what they needed when they needed. There were several sucessful and powerful Asian guilds on the server I was a part of. To be sure there were a few very rare mobs, such as the dragons and a particular demon. On the other hand, they were not somthing one hunted to gain necessary progress as opposed to somthing done for the challange. This is because due to the fairly unique item creation options in the game, no matter how powerful an item from a mob was, and no matter what mob it came from, it would never be better than the top quality player created items of the same type. Now, it was difficult and time consuming to create these items, but people did it. Likewise, I played DAoC about half as long as I did EQ, and I reached the maximum level long before I quit, on multiple charachters. Everything in this game was less time consuming, and less frustrating without being a non-challange, than in EQ.
The guild system is very similar, but given the wide variety of mob hunting choices it was less exclusionary (less "member holding"). Furthermore guilds could ally together to form a kind of meta-guild. This had all the same kinds of social impacts, and not all of them positive, as mentioned about EQ. This is, as was later noted, due to the persistance of immature people empowered by the anonimity of the internet into being very rude and abusive. This is one thing in which I think any online interactive activity will find a problem. On the other hand the Mythic support staff (Mythic is to DAoC what Sony is to EQ) were far more willing and capable of dealing with bad players, if somewhat less harsh in their punishments. This leniancy usually led to less resentment from the peers of an offender than it did to continued abuses.
The biggest differance between the two games is that Camelot give the option of reaching an attainable goal. While it is persisnat and one could conceivably play forever, it lets one accomplish things that bring a sense of actually having done somthing. Each server has three "Realms" that a player can choose to join when he first signs up to play there. These realms offer safe areas in which to gain levels, make items, etc etc. In addition there are interconnected areas that players from all realms can enter after a certain level. Located in these areas are castle like structures that either guard key tactital points within a given area, provide supplies for things like seige engines, or at the most centrally located positions larger castles that each house one of two kinds of magical relics. Each realm starts with one each of these kind of relics, one for "strength" and one for "power" (magic power as it happens). Provided that they still posess their own relic of a given type the players from a realm can invade another realm and try to steal the matching relic type. If they can return it to their own relic castle, then their entire realm is granted a bonus for as long as they hold the relic. The other realms players can then be expected to try and take it back, albeit at a slight disadvantage as they lack the bonus given to the sucessful theives. Thus, after attaining high levels and earning respect of fellow players by being a nice and intelligent player, I was often given command over part of a player "army" for either the purpose of attacking an enemy realm or defending from such an attack against my own. This was infinitely more exciting than anything in EQ. The challange was in outthinking and out gunning other human beings directly. If my forces crushed them, they lost nothing but the miniscule cost of entering my realm...no xp or "loot" penalty, thus no discouragement from taking part in such battles. The "high level game" here was more dynamic and involved no competition from one's supposed peers. Likewise it gave each realm common enemies to fight against, rather than focusing on out leveling and out iteming the other guilds.
The game wasn't perfect. I will also say that to date all MMORPG's suffer from bugs in retail versions of the game. On the other hand, Mythic (and other companies) have shown that, with weekly, humble, messages and patches to fix known problems they are willing to listen to customer ideas, even about their own classes to some extent. There is no mysterious "vision". Not everyone is satisfied with the game 100%, to be sure, but not for lack of trying. Reading player opinions on message boards one is largely convinced that it is mostly people who want to complain uselessly that make the most noise. The real problems with the gameplay are mostly adressed quickly. In addition, players that have somthing about their charachter changed are warned ahead of time, reasons are given, and if it dosn't work out well for the majority of the players of that type, then it is often changed back, or changed again.
Also keep in mind that, as addictive a game as it was, I played it for a considerable time, had my fun, and felt that it was time to move on. Perhaps Mythic would prefer to get more of my money, but they didn't make the game more frustrating and the goals more difficult to acheive just to milk my cash. I hear similar things about other games of this type, just not of EQ. It seems that Sony, int he beginning, felt that no one else offered a service like theirs, so they were entitled to act as a monopoly. Then, when compatitors arrived, many people left EQ, and the remainder were so attached to the game that no amount of abuse or neglect would drive them away (or so one imagines "absor" and freinds must be thinking). However, not all gaming companies are this dreadful. Yes, they are about making money, and yes they have bottom lines etc. So did Atari and Nintendo. So did and do all companies, and all games that anyone plays are from such. This dosn't mean they are all terrible.
My predictions for Star Wars Galaxies, but first soms background. I hear a lot of people say that as Verrant/Sony made EQ, and Verrant (owned by Sony still) is making SWG, it will be the same game, only in space. I kind of doubt that. For one thing, Lucasarts is part of a big, nasty, money having conglomerate that has proven time and again that if somthing dosn't have good value, it can't be labled "star wars". Uncle George wouldn't have it any other way, even if he knows less than thing 1 about video games (or, for that matter, directing...but I digress). Yes, they will want to see their money, but they have a history of taking their time and making it work right rather than foisting cheap crap to gullible fools like me (it's a marketing strategy called "don't make them hate you and they might buy more later!"). Furthermore, Verrant itself is maintaining a stronger grip on this game. There are MMORPG competitors out there. SWG holds the unique edge of being Star Wars, but players can and will get their fix elsewhere if the product prooves faulty. Verrant has also obtained different developers for SWG. To say that "SWG is being made by the same people as EQ" is in fact mostly wrong. Verrant and Sony are involved, but so is Lucasarts. In addition, the actual people that make the game are entirely new. A few were from the mostly doomed Ultima Online, and have seen most of the ways a player driven online community based game can fail and aren't interested in having it happen again.
Will SWG have bugs? To be sure, but they'll probably be adressed and the fixes announced. Will it have annoying players? Well, yes. I will likewise referance Penny-Arcade. Most people are obnoxious twerps. Think on this, and try not to be one, and I promise I will too. Will there be problem x,y,or z? Maybe, but again the people who are responsible for such are much nicer this time, we can hope they are allowed to spend money to make money, as it were. If you bother to look at the SWG dev boards right now, well, if you can find the useful info amidst the amazing ocean of immature yelling and whining, you will see that the game devs are already taking player opinions into consideration. They in fact ask for feedback on ideas and there are whole forums for suggestions etc. Again, many ideas fostered there are sheer idiocy, but none of those are taken seriously. But consider this. If the devs are already *asking* for feedback and suggestions, and the game isn't even ready to be released any time soon, can you really say it's the same situation as EQ, where player feedback is ignored at best (and leads to banning of players at worst)? I think not. Things can always go south, and I reserve that the proof is in the pudding as it were, but don't prejudge SWG based on it's affiliation with Sony. Hopefully they are more of a silent partner this time around.
-JTY-
sorry about posting as an anonymous coward, here's my e-mail so you can rant at me if you want to: loadoshit@hotmail.com (yes, it's my spam mail account)
here is a link to a particularly interesting page of a demographic study by a psychology student:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html
There is demographic data which would validate what the author of the slashdot article has said about player's attitudes for, at least, the majority of players. Realisticly a broad statement regarding all the members of any group should be taken with a grain of salt to begin with.