Slashdot Mirror

I thought System76 were just like Sager - a reseller of Clevo systems :
LPC Digital, reseller
xoticPC, reseller

Currently using a "Late 2011 17" MacBookPro8,3" with 2.5 GHz core i7, 16 gigs or RAM, 1TB SSD + secondary hard drive in DVD bay. Running under 10.10.5 Yosemite, or Bootcamp Windows 7. The machine is fantastic, except that (of course) video performance is a bit subpar when compared to what's out there now, with 4k screens and all the rest.

Would love to know what's comparable to that today with roughly 32 Gigs of RAM, 6th -gen core i7 processor, numeric keypad, 4 gigs of graphics RAM in a dedicated graphics card, slot or caddy for secondary disk storage, but I am looking for one that will explicitly be capable of being turned it into a reasonably good Hackintosh that can also dual-boot into Windows. (even if external Wi-Fi dongle is required for OS-X).

I need a large screen, not something puny because eyesight is not getting better and the apps I run require lots of screen real-estate. (the more the better). I cannot use an external monitor because it would mostly be used in situations requiring mobility. Size, price and weight not as much of a factor, just features! I looked at the Acer Predator 17 , and that was pretty appetizing... possibly a bit overkill on the graphics side but I could live with it otherwise. Not seen any reports of someone trying Hackintosh on that model.

Any help, advice or suggestions appreciated, I am already aware of tonymacx86 and been reading their epic multibeast and clover install tales for weeks, as well as going through all of the 'best laptop for hackintosh' lists from a year or two ago, but haven't done a build of my own yet.

Thanks in advance.

(Of course none of this would be necessary if Apple agreed to license their OS to someone out there willing to make a proper OS-X compatible 17" 'desktop repacement' machine for professional users on the go. Since they're not doing it themselves, sounds like a no-brainer, but I digress)

I've been running my Clevo for the last six months and quite happy with it. But I also power down when not in use, and that might make the heating issue better.

If you do go the Clevo route, let me highly recommend buying the Sager rebranded Clevos via http://www.xoticpc.com/ It was probably the best purchasing experience I've had. They're very hands on and keep you in the loop about what's going on with your product from the moment assembly starts to the time it ships, and they will follow up with you after you've been running the machine for a few months to make sure you're still happy.

Like you, I've had reasonable performance from Clevo/Sager for software development. One thing I would possibly look for: Get the _heaviest_ laptop you can find with them. Those typically have much more aggressive cooling systems than the lighter models. Case in point: Sager 9377s at XoticPC. If you go to the gallery and locate the view of the bottom of the laptop, you'll notice multiple intakes with extensive venting out the back. XoticPC in particular can do a copper cooling upgrade which might be worthwhile to evaluate. (Haven't tried it personally)

I'm mentioning XoticPC in particular because I've gotten 3 or 4 laptops through them and have been happy. They're pretty slow to ship for custom options (they don't keep a ton of custom parts in inventory), but I've been happy with the customized product.

Laptops will always be a bit of a problem due to small packaging/weight requirements, but perhaps these tweaks can help get you there.

Can you cite references for this? I thought Dell in particular pawned off this type of work to their system builders in China. Dell still designs the look and feel of their machines and decides which parts go in, but the actual circuit board design is done further down the chain. At least, that's what I've always understood. Here's my source reference, btw:

http://www.xoticpc.com/laptop-...

Although they do all include Windows, there are a lot of ASUS Zenbook Primes that mostly fit your requirements:
http://www.xoticpc.com/custom-gaming-laptops-notebooks-laptops-smaller-ct-95_51_146.html

Xotic PC has quite a few good laptops and a ton of customization options. I've purchased several laptops for myself, my wife, and my customers through them. The one big warning I would say about them is do NOT order them if you are in a hurry. They do take time to build and ship if you get customization options, and they don't seem to carry a large supply of their parts on hand. (Don't blame them for inventory tax $)

Other than that, they're always super friendly to deal with and I always get my laptop just the way I want it.

...pick up a lappy without a WinOEM license and avoid the Windows Tax entirely.

I have an Asus G73JH-A1 with one of the HD's upgraded to a SSD from http://www.xoticpc.com/.
It has a better processor and cost $1000 or so less.

You go find a 13" or 15" machine with 7 hour battery life, that weighs 5lbs or less, operates on a 1066 bus with a full featured Core 2 (including VT!), comes with descrete graphics, 1200x800 or better screen, Wireless N, bluetooth, and has an internal optical drive that costs less. I can't find a competitor more than $80 lower in price that meets that, and that's without throwing in the backlit keyboard, 8GB ram max (not 4), memory card reader, firewire ports, a webcam, and other non-essential "specs" and that's also without any of the software you're going to need to buy for a Windows box (OK, some people buy, /.ers know how to get other ways).

http://www.xoticpc.com/force-3551-built-msi1651id2-gt628-p-2596.html?wconfigure=yes
FORCE 3551 (Built on MSI-1651-ID2 / GT628)
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- -Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Coreâ2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- nVidia GeForce GTS 160M 1024MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10
- 4,096MB (2 SODIMMS) DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to utilize 4GB+) (Corsair, Kingston or Crucial) (8GB max)
- Standard Finish
- Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software
- 500GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s)
- Internal 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell) -
- Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit + Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Coupon w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- Microsoft Office 2007 SBE - (Word/Excel/Outlook/PowerPoint/Publisher)
- 1 Year Complete Care Warranty - 1 Year Parts with 2nd Day Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty

$1888

So, according to your comment I quoted above:

15" or better -- Check @ 15.6"
5lbs - You beat me by 1.2lbs -- the horror!
7 hours battery -- close, but your MB will not run that long, either (no matter what Apple shovel-feeds you)
Full featured C2D -- Check
Discrete Graphics -- Check, nVidia GTS 160M w/1GB RAM
Wireless N -- Check
Bluetooth - Check
Internal Optical drive - check
Memory card reader - check, and more functional than the one in the 15" MBP this system is competing against.

So you beat me with the battery technology and the weight. I have a better machine at $411 less.

You're also wrong about Dell's available options:

Studio 15 Laptop:
COLORS Black Chainlink
PROCESSORS Intel® Coreâ i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB Cache, Turbo Boost)
VIDEO CARD 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit
OFFICE SOFTWARE Microsoft® Works 9
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 30-Day Trial
HD DISPLAY 15.6â Full High Definition (1080p) High Brightness LED Display with TrueLifeâ and Camera
MEMORY 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 at 1066MHz (8gb MAX)
HARD DRIVE 500GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
OPTICAL DRIVE 8X Slot Load CD/DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
BATTERY OPTIONS 85 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (9 cell)
WIRELESS CARDS Intel 5300 Ultimate-N Half Mini Card (3x3) with MyWiFi
BLUETOOTH Dell Wireless 365 Bluetooth Internal (2.1)
SOUND OPTIONS High Definition Audio 2.2
KEYBOARD Back-lit Keyboard

$1284 -- 1015 LESS than the equivelent MBP 15"

You still get me by a pound (or so) of weight, but both machines pretty well meet your "requirements", WELL UNDER what Apple is asking.

Well, this isn't a perfect match (NO PC OEM makes a perfect match), but it's closer than the OP:

http://www.xoticpc.com/force-3751-built-msi1722-p-2500.html?wconfigure=yes

Configured as follows:

FORCE 3751 (Built on MSI-1722)
- 17" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Coreâ2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- nVidia GeForce 9600M GT 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10
- 4,096MB DDR2 800MHz KINGSTON HyperX Matched Kit - Low Latency CL5 (2 SODIMMs) Dual Channel Memory SPECIAL!
- Standard Finish
- 2X Blu-Ray Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- 500GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s)
- Internal 5-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO/ xD-P)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (6-Cell)
- Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit + Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Coupon w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- Microsoft Office 2007 SBE - (Word/Excel/Outlook/PowerPoint/Publisher)
- 3 Year Complete Care Warranty - 3 Year Parts with Next Day Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty

Total price was $2,182.00.
Total price without extras $1884.00

I took some liberties by adding the Blu-Ray reader (it *added* $139 to the cost) and adding the three year next day shipping warranty (which ran an extra $159) I didn't see anything on the Apple page that mentioned the warranty until I finally found the "Learn More" link that explained the MacBook Pro came with a standard 1 year with 90 days free phone support. Even the basic 1 year warranty with the laptop I put together has 24/7 tech support and lifetime labor warranty. Removing the "extras" takes us down to $1884. Yes, the screen still isn't 1920x1200 (the MSI web site says it's available with a 1920x1200 screen -- the xoticpc web site just doesn't have the option), and the keyboard isn't backlit (a USELESS drain on the battery, in my opinion), The weight of the MSI is 7lbs. I couldn't find anything on the MPB 17" product page that lists the weight (even looking at the page source, which is how I had to find the warranty info -- POOR UI design Apple!). After doing a search on Apple's site, I found the 17" MBP to be 6.6lbs (which didn't come up in the search, but a link for the 15" did, and the 15" page had a link to the 17" specs -- ANOTHER POOR DESIGN, APPLE!). VERY close between the two. There is an optional 9 cell battery for the MSI which should make it last nearly as long as the MBP.

If this post does anything, it shows that you can get *extremely* close to the MBP specs (only very minor differences between the MBP 17" and the system quoted above), and while not half as expensive, you can still save a very significant amount($615, roughly, in this case) (of course, I've never been one to claim a similar PC was half the cost as the OP did, I've only ever claimed that similarly spec'ed PC's are less expensive).

My thoughts are scattered -- wish I had more time to hash this out, but with previous experience, it's unlikely this message will get read/replied to anyway... :(

Thanks. Part of the reason I posted was to see if someone could confirm that problem with the trackpad. I may give the Macbook Pro 13 another look when they go on sale again, but I still think I could get more hardware for the money buying something else. Maybe not a Thinkpad because their screens seem to suck. If I went with a 15", it would be a damn shame to buy a MBP when I could have this beast from ASUS for the same price. And people try to claim Macs are not overpriced...

My favorite laptop seller still offers XP as a standard option on some of its laptops. Granted I haven't tried to purchase one since the deadline, but the option to do so is still there:
http://www.xoticpc.com/force-3298-built-compal-jfl92-wsxga-p-2377.html?wconfigure=yes

I decided early on I wanted at 1680x1050 display on my new 15.4" laptop to resolution match my 22" 1680x1050 that I use for work. I looked at Dells and other big brands, but I ended up getting a Sager NP2092 with a 1680x1050 screen that they only offer in matte and I love it. With such high resolution on only a 15.4" screen it is just beautiful, "liquid" was the first word that popped into my mind when I seen it.
You can check it out here http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np2092-custom-laptop-built-compal-jfl92-p-2347.html.

You should try googling around with "barebone" and "laptop" keywords.
(you could try also "odm" or "original design manufacturer". You can also try using ODM names :"Quanta", "Compal", "Wistron", "Inventec", "ASUS", "Uniwill", "FIC", "Arima", "Mitec", "MSI", etc...)
Specialy ASUS and MSI often sell barebones.

You should land on website selling non-brand barebones, and the corresponding pieces you need (Pentium M, Core Mobile, Turion, So-DIMM RAM, 2.5" HD, etc...)

You may also try looking on websites dedicated to running Linux on laptops, because in that situation, the actual design (and therefor the ODM) are much more important than the brand written on the hardware. They usually have lists of ODM (and corresponding OEM that brand and sell them). You could subsequently google for shops selling those brands.

Or, you can go crazy and built it yourself from ground up using lowpower ITX mainboards. But you'll have some difficulties building a good battery/charger, so I won't recommend that route.

Site found with google with photo : http://www.directron.com/laptopdiy.html
Site with a list of manufacturer : http://www.laptopworldwide.com/laptops.html
Site found through google with reviews : http://laptoping.com/category/barebone-laptops/
Seller found with google : http://www.xoticpc.com/index.php/cPath/95_51_174

Another solution would be to ask your usual low-cost DIY shops to see if they can order it thru their channels : they'll charge you a little bit more, but on the other hand you won't have to pay for the shipping and handling (the reseller will bring new stock to the shop anyway, regardless of if you made an ordered).