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Linux Computer Maker System76 To Move Manufacturing To the US (opensource.com)

Posted by msmash on from the up-next dept.

An anonymous reader shares a report: Linux computer manufacturer System76 made its mark in part because of its commitment to open source principles and doing what it believes is right. Last year it released its homegrown Linux, Pop!_OS. In early March, System76 founder Carl Richell tweeted about the company's plans to locate its computer manufacturing factory in Denver, Colorado. By moving its manufacturing from China to the United States, System76 is offering more proof that it's not afraid to buck prevailing tech norms to do things "the System76 way." Carl Richell, founder and CEO of System76, says in a Twitter exchange that they anticipate shipping products from the factory by the end of the year.

136 comments

  1. Assembler, not manufacturer. by Kenja · · Score: 2, Insightful

    All the parts, will still be manufactured elsewhere.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      what, do you want them to fab their own chips in house or something?

    2. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's like saying Ford doesn't manufacture cars because they source parts from all the world.

      By this logic nobody can possibly manufacture anything unless you're in the mining or petroleum businesses.

    3. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Intel chips are made mostly in Oregon and Arizona.

    4. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Its hard to see what they will actually be doing to "manufacturer" computers when its generally known their laptops have all been designed and built by other companies like Clevo.

    5. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      True, but the perfect is the enemy of the good in this case, and one has to start somewhere. It would be nice if everything can be made in the US, but one only can do so much, and this is a lot better than just buying something from a Chinese OEM/ODM and "badge engineering" the product.

    6. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Did you RTFA?

      Don Watkins: Why are you building a factory in the United States when so much is offshored?

      Louisa Bisio: Over the last 12 years, we've developed every capability, capital-wise, that an organically grown hardware company can. We can make careful and deliberate choices about hardware and our product line. We can customize all parts of the software stack from the firmware level to the operating system experience. But today, we can't design and manufacture our products.

      It's similar to how Tesla used a Lotus chassis for their first car. Like the Roadster, the outside of our computers might look similar to others, but it's the inside that counts. The strategy was cash-efficient and allowed us to focus on developing high-value areas of the company. However, knowing what we wanted to build—but without the means to do so—left us constantly yearning.

      Chris Short: Where are systems being built before the factory opens?

      LB: Current products are produced from a global supply chain with much of the manufacturing concentrated in China. Final assembly, OS imaging, and QC testing are in Colorado and California.

      Sure, they could be lying, but it seems pretty obvious what their plans are here.

    7. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought we are in the 3D printing revolution and this is exactly what they are doing?

    8. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, it changes year to year, but the wafers are then shipped overseas to be cut-up and packaged.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the article, they will be designing, prototyping and manufacturing the chassis, so they're not just badgineering.

    10. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      True, but the perfect is the enemy of the good in this case, and one has to start somewhere. It would be nice if everything can be made in the US, but one only can do so much, and this is a lot better than just buying something from a Chinese OEM/ODM and "badge engineering" the product.

      So System76 is not doing anything that every other white box computer maker in the US is doing. There are plenty of companies who assemble computers in the US - they range in size from mom and pop computer shops selling their own prebuilt PCs to companies like Dell which can and do assemble PCs in the US.

      Given their pricing, I would've thought their computers were assembled in the US anyways.

      OTOH, maybe their a Tier 1 OEM now, which means they can manufacture their own boards in the US. That is more unique (though there are many other white box companies that can do this as well), in which case that's a bit more impressive. But given their volumes, it's probably not a difficult thing if it's designed elsewhere. There's a lot of small contract manufacturers out there and they can handle motherboard production quite readily. (The company I work for often uses local CMs - the PCBs and parts often come from overseas, but small runs of units we generally use a local CM to stuff the boards and test them. Larger runs we use China.

    11. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the Intel fabs are on trailers that they move from year to year? Yes, packaging, wire bonding, etc. is done in lower labor cost locations.

    12. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Many of their chipsets are made in malaysia, or were when I worked there.

    13. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      No, but until the chip, display, battery, circuit card, and other component manufacturers move back (though especially the ones that require real science and tech), the US doesn't manufacture computers, it assembles them. The computer is what's inside, not the case. I've run computers without a case before.

      On their side, after carefully reading the article, this isn't just "final" assembly - it is a hair past that. They are already doing something they are calling final assembly in this country. There are indications in the article that they will at least be truly manufacturing the case, the lowest tech aspect of the job. This is one little piece more than most end-users can actually do for themselves though making your own case, even for a laptop, is not terribly difficult and can be quite rewarding.

      Perhaps they are also making the circuit cards here but I didn't see an indication of that in the article.

      It would be really nice if the government would fix the "made in america" requirements to at least require that half of the dollars paid on the device itself (not counting non-value added activities like marketing) have their final resting place within the country. That wouldn't be a perfect measure, but it would cut out a lot of the fraudulent claims.

    14. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. This is just another Trump lie. The lower corporate tax rate is destroying jobs because companies have more money now so they're dishonestly giving more to shareholders.

    15. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make Linux Great Again!!!
      How is the actual degree of native Americaness of the Talos systems, by the way?

    16. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Luthair · · Score: 1

      For years they've often made claims that their hardware was custom - in short, I won't believe them until they actually ship something that isn't from an OEM.

    17. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by kilodelta · · Score: 2

      Well if they did that we'd have to call them the successor to Commodore.

    18. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Fabs typically last 2 generations of process. Intel has fabs all over the world. I don't keep track. Last I knew (a long time ago), the Oregon fabs were CPU/process prototype and debug.

      'Mostly' is a bold claim, most by what measure? Intel makes an assload of integrated circuits beyond x86 processors.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to Trump, over a hundred million jobs were going to be destroyed in China by his tax cut, so the Republicans are demanding just that. That will destroy corporations like Intel since they could no longer afford to compete, but Trump doesn't care since his only goal in life is to destroy as man lives as he can.

    20. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now System 76 is being destroyed by Trump because theyâ(TM)ll have to spend more money now. I hope no one starved to death, especially a child, after they go out of business.

    21. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think this crowd doesn't know that?

      I guess at +4, it keeps the discussion low brow, rather than having useful commentary.

    22. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We really should stop deluding ourselves. It leads to misunderstanding our place in the world and what risks we can take in international relations. Spend a bit of time trying to change the mind of a narcissist, and you'll get a taste of the international point of view of America.

      The question in the case of the car manufacturers is "where are the really important parts made?" - engines and computers especially. Where is the need for tech and know-how?

      If it's bending metal to form frames and we get into a trade war, we can move it here in no time. If it's fabbing chips or making displays, it takes $10 billion+ and many years to spin up a modern fab.

      We'd be f-ed up if China (and thus Taiwan) suddenly stopped shipments of chips to us. South Korea and others couldn't soak up the slack. They wouldn't be hurt that much. In fact, they'd probably be helped. Other manufacturers throughout the world would be happy to replace our sales in all of the other countries using the Chinese chips. And our measly little population is no longer a large enough part of the world market that they couldn't do without the market, even with its relative wealth which is also losing its uniqueness. The loss of our market would likely be more than balanced by the gain in hold on all of the other markets.

    23. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was killed by tax cuts

      Remember meeee

    24. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I hope not. Mold making is hard, Laptop chassis are not simple parts, some of the molds will be complicated.

      If they try and learn as they go, they will go broke on that effort. Outsourcing mold making is very common. They won't have the volume to justify hiring anybody qualified full time, so they're going to outsource it. The only question is how much super expensive scrap metal they generate first.

      I can't imaging they'll even have the volume to justify having an in house injection molding machine. A laptop chassis isn't going to be shot on the smallest machines.

      Unless they're making a lot more laptops then I think, I think they should grab the opportunity to be better. CNC the chassis' out of aluminum, anodize them custom colors, factory engrave them. Perhaps invade toughbooks space, perhaps just make them extra shiney.

      Send out 'limited editions' to artists for decoration (get the 'special one', with toejam under glass).

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    25. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the parts, will still be manufactured elsewhere.

      LOL ..To quote Lev Andropov from Armageddon:

      Components? American components, Russian components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!
       

    26. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by timjones · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Read the article. They understand, as should YOU, that you can't just suddenly start manufacturing every last part immediately. They'll take back what they can, AS they are able.

      Did you expect them to make the CPUs and the hard drives and the screens all on day one? Is that realistic for anyone in the hardware business, even an Apple or Samsung?

      At least System76 is making more of an effort than anyone else, and open-sourcing it along the way. That's way more than Lenovo, HP or any other major brand is doing.

    27. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      That doesn't explain why it needs to be assembled/manufactured in America vs China.
      They may want more control of their process. Having your own assembly line can help this, and often it is actually cheaper to build in America especially if their product has a higher tolerance levels. But it doesn't mean it cannot be done in China and just as well.
      Mostly I expect it is just a political thing, where they can show they are a solid American company.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    28. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "The question in the case of the car manufacturers is "where are the really important parts made?" - engines and computers especially. Where is the need for tech and know-how?"

      It's also, where are the really expensive/profitable parts made? Trump is right about one thing, we are a massive nation with plenty of raw natural resources of most every type and a huge trading deficit. As long as we can continue to steal talent from elsewhere it wouldn't really hurt the United States if we just used our resources and labor. For the most part it has been the US or US funding that has developed the things we buy, some things might be less costly because of global trade and in some cases it might make sense to seed our landfill mines with everyone elses resources and use our own when they are all out but we don't particularly NEED all this outside trade.

    29. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      You'd need to exempt raw materials from that. To take an extreme example, jewelry production cost is dominated by the price of the precious metals... I think most people would agree that a handmade ring from New York was made in the USA even if the gold ingot came from South Africa.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    30. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fabs typically last 2 generations of process. Intel has fabs all over the world. I don't keep track. Last I knew (a long time ago), the Oregon fabs were CPU/process prototype and debug.

      I work at Intel, specifically at Fab 32 in Arizona. I can assure you that our fabs in Oregon and Arizona last significantly longer than 2 generations of process. Oregon does do a lot of prototyping, but they also ship actual customer product.

    31. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the parts, will still be manufactured elsewhere.

      The hilarious thing is all of dells computers are already made in Texas.

    32. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      Maybe... I'd agree if there are no known reserves here that that could be an exclusion. But, contrary to what we've been guided to believe, we have large deposits of virtually everything we need at home. We just choose not to develop them. I think that is a combination of NIMBY and a strategic move to manipulate via NIMBY to maintain our reserves while using those of others.

    33. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Mostly I expect it is just a political thing, where they can show they are a solid American company."
      We have reached a tipping point where it is becoming increasingly cheaper to manufacture products in the US than it is in China. Especially products that are destined for the US market. Even China's cheap labor and currency manipulation is not providing any benefits to companies operation in China. Compared to China the US has lower corporate rates. China's rate is 40% (before bribes) and the US rate hovers around 25%. The US has cheaper real estate and cheaper energy costs. And products that once had to be delivered over great distances no longer need to.

      Chinese business men are the same as business men in the US and other parts of the world. Nationalist posturing does not come before making a profit.

    34. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Even if the US had large deposits of gold, the value added on a ring is the manual labor - not the cost of the raw materials.

      Actually, I think I stumbled upon the solution. Measure the value added, just like the Europeans do to calculate their VAT. If the value-added to the consumer is greater than 50%, it's 'Murican.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    35. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Did you expect them to make the CPUs and the hard drives and the screens all on day one?

      Do you expect them to ever given the amount of pull they have in the market? Comparing them to Apple is being disingenuous.

      At least System76 is making more of an effort than anyone else

      No they really aren't. System76 are a niche market player not competing with general purpose computing on raw cost and are in the best position to be able to do whatever the hell they want for manufacturer. It's a nice token move, but hardly a resemblance of effort. A better question would be, given their products and market position why weren't they assembling in the USA in the first place.

    36. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Kenja's probably just trying to describe what System76 is doing, not making a statement about what he wants.

    37. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As general rule , I prefer China make smartfones over US made ones ...
      because I do not travel to China, and I am traveling to the US.

      It is about who is keeping those data and have backdor keys.

    38. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      Yes. I was just saying that you can't exempt the raw materials because the labor to get the raw materials could be performed in the US in nearly all cases. Even in the cases of the rare metals everyone panics about, we have large deposits of most that we choose not to admit exist.

    39. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the vast majority of Intel's production is in the US. They have 9 fabs in the US and three overseas. One in China. One in Israel and one in Ireland. To my knowledge the US fabs are the ones that make current line processors. GF also has a fair number of fabs in the US as well. If its an Intel CPU is American made and if its an AMD processor its either German or American made. The Singapore fabs for GF aren't modern.

    40. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Except for Apple already doing assembly on some models in Texas for a few years now on some systems, and announcing plans a couple months ago to spend billions moving more manufacturing and assembly back on-shore.

      Sure, the number of Mac Pro systems is probably pathetically small for a company like Apple (especially since it's ass-old and stupidly priced), but System76 is hardly a major OEM cranking out millions of units either.

      So what is unique in what was announced here today, and how it's "way more" than other major brands?

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    41. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      For years they've often made claims that their hardware was custom - in short, I won't believe them until they actually ship something that isn't from an OEM.

      Sure, the processor chips will be one of the major brands, but having custom production runs for other makers, franchises, etc is bread-&-butter work for many manufacturing facilities. This is particularly true for many foreign manufacturers.

      The new guitar distortion pedal I just bought made in China has a board inside identical to several other brands of distortion pedals. They use a single generic 'type-X distortion circuit' PCB and fill it with the appropriate parts for the features desired for that brand's model. Many name-brand speaker-makers do custom runs for guitar amplifier and PA-system makers made to non-standard specs and/or with non-standard parts & materials.

      If you come to a manufacturer like a Lenovo, Samsung, or similar with the prospect of a 10,000-unit or more mid- to high-end laptop order, they're going to be willing to go some ways towards giving you what you want, especially if they believe the orders will continue and even increase. Once the initial setup costs are paid for it's just more profitable production and sales for the contracted manufacturer.

      This move by System76 will allow them to keep more cash in-house to further expand with, it will add much-needed jobs, and also return more cash into the US domestic economy.

      My concern is that it puts them even more squarely under the thumb of US TLAs and any shenanigans they decide to get up to.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    42. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's kind of sad you are so ready to challenge something that is easy to confirm yourself. Out of those let's only look at 14 nm (Coffee Lake, etc). That leaves Oregon, Arizona, and Ireland. We do not yet produce Intel CPUs in mainland China or Taiwan.

      Fab name City Production start year Process (wafer, node)
      D1X Hillsboro, Oregon, USA 2013 300 mm, 14 nm/10 nm
      D1D Hillsboro, Oregon, USA 2003 300 mm, 14 nm
      D1C Hillsboro, Oregon, USA 2001 300 mm, 22/14 nm
      Fab 32 Chandler, Arizona, USA 2007 300 mm, 22/14 nm
      Fab 24 Leixlip, Ireland 2006 300 mm, 14 nm

      Do you have data to back up your claim "but the wafers are then shipped overseas to be cut-up and packaged." ?

    43. Re: Assembler, not manufacturer. by bursch-X · · Score: 1

      Europe is now getting close to the point where the value added tax is more expensive than the actual value added, though.

      --
      There are two rules for success:
      1. Never tell everything you know.
    44. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      That's one way to look at it. Here is another that clarifies reality by removing the "value" distortion and just looking at wafer capacity. Note that the combined capacity of Taiwan (China) and China is 32.1% of world output. The US is not split out but combined into North American capacity of 13.4% of world output, barely more than China when this was published and dwarfed by Taiwan. If we were to group "Asian" capacity in the same fashion, it would show that Asian capacity is about 3/4 of world output.

      Note that Intel is not in the top 5 semiconductor manufacturers in the world when viewed this way.

    45. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The problem with this is that the raw material source can't be traced after the initial mining operation. If I make things out of recycled aluminum or steel, I have literally no idea where those elements came from. I could make the exact same widget out of recycled aluminum one day and "fresh" aluminum straight from America's finest bauxite mines the next and I'd need to use two different labels. I don't think that's a meaningful distinction.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    46. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Unless such Nationalist posturing gets in the good graces of your political Representative, or just a popular sales claim.

      Now it is probably cheaper for some products to be built in America and Europe. Normally products that require a smaller variance in build quality.

      For example. Bolts, Chinese bolts are tested to be much stronger then what they are rated for compared to American bolts are, which American bolts are much closer to the rating advertised. Why is that? American Manufacturing is normally much better at meeting the threshold of the designs, and saving money in not provided wasted quality (Why build a bolt advertised to handle 2 tons, that can handle 8 tons when you can sell that 8 ton bolt for more). While the Chinese manufacturing has more variance. Their bolt making process has a variance of 2 tones - 8 tons but they don't have the same controls, so they will sell the 8 ton bolts as 2 ton just because the manufacturing process isn't as tightly controlled. They may loose out on being able to sell the 8 ton bolts for more. but they the less accurate manufacturing process allows them to make more for less.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    47. Re:Assembler, not manufacturer. by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Sure, the processor chips will be one of the major brands, but having custom production runs for other makers, franchises, etc is bread-&-butter work for many manufacturing facilities. This is particularly true for many foreign manufacturers.

      What? They are literally just installing software and slapping a sticker on existing sager & clevo laptops today and have referred to them as custom.

  2. When will it not be Clevo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right now their laptops are just Clevo, is there a plan to change that too?

    1. Re: When will it not be Clevo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    2. Re: When will it not be Clevo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hotness ty

  3. Godspeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I wish you well on your mad quest. Good luck!
    (Also will we maybe see an open source laptop from you too?)

  4. What's the advantage? by admin7087 · · Score: 0

    What's the advantage of manufacturing them in the US? Higher price?

    1. Re:What's the advantage? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Easier to prepare for retirement when you live near where you plan to retire.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. That's exactly what the advantage is -- higher price. You see, people like paying higher prices for things, and this is one more value-add for the customer.

      You're a dumbass.

    3. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you very much for this opinion! In the US, almost everybody is entitled to his opinion, including you!

    4. Re:What's the advantage? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Mebbe stop trolling and RTFA?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the advantage of manufacturing them in the US? Higher price?

      socialism for poor southern crackers

    6. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Labor is more expensive in the US, but labor's not the only cost in manufacturing. I imagine this will reduce their shipping cost as well. Also, truth is manufacturers don't care about labor costs: they care about productivity. If, for whatever reason (e.g., automation, tax incentives, shipping costs) a plant with more expensive laborers can produce computers for the same price as a Chinese plant with cheaper labor, who cares how much the labor costs? Bottom line is cost/unit.

    7. Re: What's the advantage? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Wow... you manage to be both correct as well as a total fucking dumbass (Dumbass!) at the same time: Of course things will get more expensive for U.S. consumers (no pain, no gain; what? You want something for nothing?? Pfft.); that's the fucking point. Instead of sending smaller sums overseas (to be later reinvested against us), we spend larger sums domestically. Yes,Dumbass; it hurts a little, at first... not doing so hurts far fucking more in the long run.

    8. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bottom line is cost/unit.

      quality certainly is not a factor when it's US made, USA cannot build simple pedestrian overpasses without murdering people

    9. Re:What's the advantage? by pz · · Score: 1

      Better quality control when either (a) you employ the people doing the manufacturing and can say, "make it better or I'll find someone else who can to take your job," or (b) you use a domestic service that you can stomp over to and say, "make it better or we go to your competitor."

      In my laboratory, we do light manufacturing. We bring in supplies that are either domestically or foreign (read: Chinese) and do the work in house. It isn't cheaper in dollars spent, but it is cheaper in time because I don't have to re-order things that get messed up because someone in China didn't understand "blue" does not mean "purple" or something like that. So, higher costs, but also higher productivity.

      Of course, we're only one tiny, obscure corner of the manufacturing world, but I think the principle remains true: if you have direct control over manufacturing, the product is higher quality as a result.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    10. Re:What's the advantage? by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      What's the advantage of manufacturing them in the US? Higher price?

      socialism for poor southern crackers

      Um... I don't think very many "poor southern crackers" live in Denver !!!

      (DamYankee!) 8-)

    11. Re:What's the advantage? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      What's the advantage of manufacturing them in the US? Higher price?

      It's hard to get more expensive than System76 already is. Home of $900 desktop towers with 250 GB hard drives and 8 GB RAM.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    12. Re:What's the advantage? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Probably easier for the NSA to force in their back-doors. I guess they have something juicy on the CEO and forced that change of location.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    13. Re: What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TRICKLE DOWN BABY

    14. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the advantage of manufacturing them in the US? Higher price?

      A Tweet from Trump say'in "Great Job! Other companies still make their stuff overseas! SAD! And buy direct and not from AMAZON who rips off the Postal Service and the American ppl!"

    15. Re:What's the advantage? by jbo5112 · · Score: 1

      For some items, the shipping cost outweighs any savings from manufacturing overseas. There are other things to look at too: cost of regulatory compliance (i.e. how many pounds of paperwork to prove you aren't hurting the environment), tax rates, etc.

      With lower taxes, less regulation, and the cheaper shipping, it could be cheaper to manufacture in the US.

    16. Re:What's the advantage? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      And last I looked, their laptops looked really big and bulky too. I was seriously considering them, but the Dell Precision was just better all around. Ubuntu installed and working on boot too!

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    17. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are buying from System76 then yes, they obviously do like paying a higher price.

    18. Re:What's the advantage? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's also strange to call an action by a private company socialism.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    19. Re:What's the advantage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also strange to call an action by a private company socialism.

      In England they have "socialized medicine" where private companies own and run the hospitals

    20. Re:What's the advantage? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      But it's paid for by the government. If he were calling our water supply socialized, I'd see his point. I might not think it was a bad idea, but it would be a reasonable use of the term. (Yes, I know there's a use charge, but it doesn't really reflect the cost of the service.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  5. MAGA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You may now begin your Pavlovian downmodding...

  6. Whatever by mario6915 · · Score: 0

    How about you buck the Linux laptops are actually more expensive trend or the Linux laptops are ugly as shit trend?

    1. Re:Whatever by d0rp · · Score: 1

      Well, the article mentions that up until now they were sort of stuck using existing chassis's supplied by their manufacturer in China, and at the time that made fiscal sense. But now they plan to design and build them themselves. So, my takeaway is that they'll likely being trying to address your second concern and they might end up with some pretty slick looking linux laptops.

    2. Re:Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy. Get a fancy laptop, subsidised in part in the case of windows laptops. You start it up _without activating_ the default OS, meaning booting it up straight from the usb with your favourite linux distro. You get a cheaper laptop, prettier, and still running a decent OS :o)

  7. But those jobs are NEVER coming back !! by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

    Somebody didn't get the memo here.

    The jobs only should come back when the media exercises their constitutional right to ALLOW them to come back.

    This just isn't fair to Obama. He should be getting the credit for this!

    I say we launch a pre-retaliatory strike on Trumps lawyer. Btw that is the constitutional directive of the DoJ: political attacks against the president.

    1. Re:But those jobs are NEVER coming back !! by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      While, as a hardware engineer, I love the idea of factories coming back to the US so I don't have to deal with the incessant BS of dealing with China/Taiwan factories, I'm not going to blame the media for the reason they got there in the first place.

      They got there because those companies can make things for cheap, they can do it by breaking many of the labor/environment laws the western world has adopted, they have a comparatively infinite supply of cheap labor, and they have a lot of inexpensive space to build out. So by moving this back to the US, and complying with US laws, paying US labor rates and US property values, the product is certainly going to cost more.

      Will it cost more and be like Apple, a solid system that can be relied on? Or is to going to cost more and still feel like an HP/Dell/Lenovo craptop, wherein we should just go buy one of those for cheaper?

      This is how the world really works. I wish them well, I hope they take the harder path and succeed, but I'm not going to blame the media for "spreading lies", I'm not going to blame the liberals for setting labor standards or environmental standards. I'm going to once again point the finger at ourselves for believing that we can have a global economy in the first place, as long as national boundaries and laws vary so wildly.

    2. Re:But those jobs are NEVER coming back !! by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Yess, there is a tiny instance of things being different than for everything else! The people that made these claims must be COMPLETELY wrong because of this!

      Seriously, this argument is beyond stupid.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:But those jobs are NEVER coming back !! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 0

      Will it cost more and be like Apple, a solid system that can be relied on?

      And as a hardware engineer myself, I have always wondered why Apple can get such superior build quality out of the same Chinese sweatshops (there are no other kinds of factories over there!) that the HPs and Dells get a bunch of unreliable plastic crap out of...

      I guess you really DO get what you pay for!

    4. Re: But those jobs are NEVER coming back !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got a recent Lenovo T series. It's fine, and in fact much better than an epoxied together Apple. Runs Centos just fine as well.

    5. Re:But those jobs are NEVER coming back !! by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Basically I was saying: who are you going to believe? The media or your lying eyes

  8. Low Volumes == No Difference by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'd wager that they "manufacture" so few units now that the logistics of dealing with a Chinese manufacturer to even give them the time of day is getting so hard, and the actual DOLLAR savings so little (no economies of scale to speak of), that it just doesn't matter, when they can just go order their next month's supplies from NewEgg or Fry's and be done with it.

    It matters to companies like Apple, HP, Acer, Lenovo, etc.; because I'd bet they EACH sell more product in a DAY than System76 does in a YEAR.

    So, for the 10 jobs they'll bring to the U.S., good for them!

    1. Re:Low Volumes == No Difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rubbish. It matters - and if you care about jobs in the US, then vote with your wallet and buy System76 products. That is the *only* way things can change - persuade people to buy American instead of Chinese, even if it means buying less stuff.

  9. POP!_OS ?? by jasnw · · Score: 1

    Does anyone here have any experience with their POP!_OS flavor of Linux? I'm getting tired of waiting for Apple to remember that it is (was?) in the computer business and am looking to come back to Linux. I like the System76 hardware, but I'm not sure what distro to use (I used CentOS last time out).

    1. Re:POP!_OS ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe we are witnessing the birth of a new "Microsoft/Apple/HP/etc" here with System76?

    2. Re:POP!_OS ?? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 2

      I have it on a machine I bought from them in November. It's mostly just a minimalist Ubuntu distro that comes with the System76 firmware and an custom "app store" style interface for apt-get.

      I like it, but it's hard to really think of it as a distinct distro yet.

      I gather they have plans to build more customization into it over time though.

    3. Re:POP!_OS ?? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I was in the same boat with Apple last year. Went with a Dell Precision through the small business part of their site, came with Ubuntu installed. No complaints at all. There a few quirks, but nothing like some of the crap Apple is doing with OSX. And it was 2x the hardware for about 1/2 the price of the new MBPs.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  10. Still Too Expensive by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

    Personally, I don't understand why somebody would go with them. Their prices are significantly more than what you would pay for a similar Windows computer with a major manufacturer (Dell, Lenovo, HP etc.) You might as well just buy a laptop off a major manufacturer and wipe the disk. I know that still means that Microsoft gets a chunk of money, and you may be against that, but the large price premium makes it a hard stance to take. The desktop makes even less sense as you can just build a desktop yourself and install your own OS.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:Still Too Expensive by FictionPimp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or buy a dell with ubuntu pre-installed.

    2. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      System76 laptops are built and certified with Linux. If you buy a Windows laptop somewhere else, you're rolling the dice on Linux compatibility. And they actually care about usability, ensuring enough accessory ports.

    3. Re:Still Too Expensive by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

      1. I knew everything in it was going to work with Linux out of the box, rather then all my linux using friends who always seem to have pieces of hardware that never work even though they should
      2. Being in a niche sometimes means you have to pay more than the mass market does. But if you don't support your niche, it eventually gets abandoned.

    4. Re:Still Too Expensive by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

      3. System76 support is way better than Dell, and worth paying more for.

    5. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. System76 support is way better than Dell, and worth paying more for.

      Hardly.

      With dell I can get any replacement part from the machine, anything, from the display, to the motherboard, to the power supply, to the GPU, to the fan, to the rubber grommets that hold the fan in place, the very next day, for free, with NO questions asked through a website and no need to talk to a human. I choose the part I need, they send it to me.

      SYstem76 is nothing compared to that. You can even buy dells with Linux preinstalled, and if you choose that option you know it will work properly since they won't allow you to choose linux on a system that doesn't have proper support.

    6. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having dealt with both, I am going to have to disagree on that

    7. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be clear, are you talking about Dell corporate support or home user?

    8. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you can search the web for model before you buy it. I knew the Dell laptop I was buying had no hardware issue with Ubuntu in advance. Took 10-15 to double check a few false reports of compatibility. I guess some script-kiddies may need somebody else to 'certify' it works.

    9. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or buy a dell with ubuntu pre-installed.

      Along with all the proprietary drivers and binary blobs? System76 are more for people that want more open laptops, RFY certification, and advanced security. If you just want Ubuntu for the sake of Ubuntu's interface or the stuff you can get on Linux, then by all means go with a Dell.

      I haven't bought anything from System76 before but they are catering to customers like me. I have bought from Think Penguin, Tehnoetic (now Technoethical), Gluglug (now Minifree), and NCrypt Cellular, and have a friend that's ordered from Purism. The demand for more secure devices has grown hugely over the last four years.

    10. Re:Still Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL

    11. Re:Still Too Expensive by wertigon · · Score: 1

      This assumes you know the specific brand of the laptop you are buying.

      I am not very picky when it comes to laptops. I do have a couple of favorite brands (Lenovo, Dell) like everyone else, but when it is time to upgrade my laptop I must for laptop A, then check if there is Linux support, then look at laptop B, any Linux support, rinse and repeat until I find a laptop that is both compatible with Linux and satisfies my humble needs (mainly, robust, long battery life and long life span, ideally 4-5 years).

      Since my time is precious to me, I'd rather not engage in this dance if I can avoid it, since it is going to cost me around 10-15 hours to properly research unless I stumble upon a good laptop by chance. I will gladly pay a few dollars extra if it means I can get rid of the hassle...

      --
      systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
  11. Re:Name sounds like SystemD to me. by harrkev · · Score: 2

    Oh and they push Ubuntu. No thanks.

    So, this isn't good enough for you? They have to settle on your preferred flavor of distro?

    If only there was a way to wipe a hard drive and install a different OS on it. I wonder why this hasn't been done before.

    --
    "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  12. Good for them by tobiasly · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wow, tough crowd in here. If you RTFA (yeah I know, bear with me here) they seem very sincere about pushing forward the state of open source computer systems. No, they may not be fabbing their own chips or using your favorite Linux distro, but I'd think the Slashdot crowd would be more receptive of another player putting significant skin in the game.

    I bought my dad one of their "Meerkat nettop" devices (IIRC), must have been 10 years ago now. I was tired of the endless phone calls about whatever Windows problem he was having that month. Yeah, I could have built him something for cheaper but having something supported by a real company was quite attractive and I felt much better about recommending that he spend his money with them as opposed to, say, Dell, where MS gets a cut.

    It's been wonderful. Support calls have dropped to almost nothing. Once I had to reinstall Ubuntu when whatever LTS it came with ended support. But he still uses that system to this day, checking email and browsing the web.

    Thank you, System76, for showing us that a real company can make real Linux-based consumer products and be successful. Best of luck on your new facility. Too bad your systems are so reliable, or I'm sure I'd be recommending my dad buy another one by now.

    1. Re:Good for them by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      I might buy one of these just to encourage them!
      And, it's about time I checked out Linux again...

    2. Re:Good for them by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Wow, tough crowd in here. If you RTFA (yeah I know, bear with me here) they seem very sincere about pushing forward the state of open source computer systems. No, they may not be fabbing their own chips or using your favorite Linux distro, but I'd think the Slashdot crowd would be more receptive of another player putting significant skin in the game.

      Just because they are good in one area doesn't mean they deserve praise in all, and likewise note that no one is criticizing their products, quite the opposite they are actually praised here.

      What is being criticized is the fact that being in the unique position of offering a niche product not competing on cost, they a) should not have outsourced to the lowest bidder in the first place, and b) not be praised for what is actually not a hell of a lot of effort on their behalf.

    3. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just knew back then, somewhere along the way, that I will end up with something from these guys, no matter how long it takes.

      Good luck to the folks at System76! Hate to use the word, but I sincerely hope the transition will be seamless, or painless. (I always got back to my superior to never *ever use that word, because it originated from that one guy that with 20/20 hindsight, that would tell his team that 'Well it seemed less trouble at the time, so we went that way'

    4. Re:Good for them by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      I thought System76 were just like Sager - a reseller of Clevo systems :
      LPC Digital, reseller
      xoticPC, reseller

    5. Re:Good for them by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Those seem to be MSWind machines. I'm not going to trust them not to need drivers that aren't available for Linux. Even if they use the same manufacturer, this doesn't mean they need the same drivers.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  13. Clevo makes their laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are not about to stop using Clevo as their source for laptops. I'l bet only the desktops get manufactured in the US.

  14. Stop being a tool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to wipe Ubuntu install a different distro that's maintained by one guy part-time and is used by a couple hundred people and constantly suffers from bugs and comparability problems, go right ahead. What's stopping you?

  15. Probably requested by the NSA by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Otherwise it gets really tedious to replace all those BIOSes. Now they can just use an NSL or secret law to do it.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Probably requested by the NSA by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Otherwise it gets really tedious to replace all those BIOSes. Now they can just use an NSL or secret law to do it.

      Yeah, instead of Chinese rootkits, now you can get Chinese and American rootkits.

      Maybe there's still time to relocate to Germany or Switzerland before the Europeans decide to stop buying.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  16. 'Beggars in Spain' by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    In Nancy Kress' Nebula and Hugo Award winning story, you see the opponents of the scientific advance choosing to pay more for worse technology as a gesture of solidarity against the non-sleepers. This appears to be the same action, which at best can be spun as such resistance, and at worst is sheer xenophobia.

  17. Still got NSA embedded control systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take back the chips and youll have something but this is just lipstick on a pig. Same environmental waste, same insecurities, but its got a Made In USA sticker so its awesome!!

    I misss when Americans did impressive things, like democracy.

  18. There WILL be NSA/CIA court orders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    make no mistake about it. They say sincerely and honestly that no such thing ever happened while they built their machines in China, and why would they lie? With an NSA/CIA court order in place, they can simply not say anything at all. These machines _will not_ be secure anymore.

  19. Re:Name sounds like SystemD to me. by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1

    Why buy from a bunch of annoying bearded hipsters ? I can get faster hardware cheaper elsewhere if I want to roll the OS myself. I guess you forgot about that part.

  20. Re:Name sounds like SystemD to me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I own a System 76 Laptop. Came with Ubuntu 16.04. Very easy to put another distro on it. All in all its been a very reliable machine. The only complaint I had was the decimal point on the number pad was in an odd place but newer models seem to have addressed it.

  21. give me my firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they won't tell me how to update my firmware because i won't run their popos.

  22. Re:Name sounds like SystemD to me. by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

    Roll an OS? What are you talking about?

    Are you unaware of how hard it is to install most modern linux distros? Download the self-installer, pop in a thumb drive, run the installer, reboot, answer some questions, and you're done. Linux installed and working. There may be a handful of things to tweak, but oftentimes you've got 99% functionality with that much effort.

    Unless you've got somewhat exotic hardware, linux has been a breeze to install for a good decade now. Or is your personal OS Gentoo or LFS? In that case, yeah, you're probably out of luck when it comes to finding any manufacturer installing those by default.

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  23. Re:Name sounds like SystemD to me. by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

    How could he forget that? That is not the point you made on your original post.

  24. Taxation is theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Dishonestly giving more to shareholders."

    You mean the rightful owners of the company who took the capital investment risk to earn a return?

    Dishonesty are the politicians and societal parasites who think they are entitled to take other people's money by force and call it a tax.

    1. Re:Taxation is theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taxation isn't theft, idiot. Theft is theft. Taxation is how government operations get funded.

      If we abolished all taxes, guess what? There'd be no police, no military, no internet, and no food safety enforcement. You'd have to grow your own food to have any confidence that it wouldn't be tainted with toxic chemicals. You'd have no one to call when your house got broken into -- indeed, you'd have criminals become VERY EMBOLDENED about invading your house in a movie-like fashion.

      There's a lot to complain about with our current government, but you're completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.

  25. Others already do this in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ThinkPenguin's systems are assembled in New Hampshire and the company has worked a lot closer with companies and people on low level components and design as well as actual development of firmwares of various types of devices. And unlike system 76 the company actually ships hardware that can be properly supported rather than reverting to putting out a custom distribution that still won't make it possible to properly support the companies hardware long term.

    1. Re:Others already do this in the US by HiThere · · Score: 1

      ThinkPenguin's computers all seem to be rather low end. Fine, if that's what you need, but it sure isn't what I'm looking for.

      OTOH, these days I also want to avoid Intel. Too may problems, and the problems that exist being addressed with PR before they finally admit them.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  26. Umm, no. Taiwan is not China. by thesupraman · · Score: 1

    You had better do a little more research I think.

    While China likes to claim Taiwan is China, Taiwan would beg to differ.
    And have a reasonably large standing army who would also, Around 1.3% of their population are active military, and close to 8% are reserves.

    So no, Taiwan is not China.

    1. Re:Umm, no. Taiwan is not China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not yet.

  27. And Still Pay the Windows Tax? No Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Still Pay the Windows Tax? No Thanks

    1. Re:And Still Pay the Windows Tax? No Thanks by FictionPimp · · Score: 2

      You do not pay the windows tax. In fact, selecting Ubuntu lowers the cost of the laptop by around $100.

    2. Re:And Still Pay the Windows Tax? No Thanks by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Hell, I'd pay extra if it meant that Microsoft didn't get a cent for my laptop purchase.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  28. Can't be trusted anymore - NSA/CIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We all know for a fact that hardware coming from the US cannot be trusted, it's not debatable. They should keep the option to have a full Chinese version, specially for foreigners.
    There seems to be some Americans that would rather take the risk with their own government than with Chinese manufacturers, so having the option would be great for everyone.
    Since Chinese assembly lines are so cheap, I wonder if there would be any extra cost for having the option or if it would add only in complexity.

    No System76 for now.

  29. Tuxedo-Computers by sunsolaris · · Score: 1

    we do it better ;-) Fully automatic install in case the use trashed his Linux. Pop in the included usb, connect a wired network and enjoy your fresh install with the latest updates and drivers. Every function is working even when the kernel release changes, we develop on time and keep pace.