Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Buying a Laptop That Doesn't Have Windows 8
First time accepted submitter Sagan's Pie writes "I'm starting to look for a laptop for college, and the only thing I seem to find are laptops or tablets that have Windows 8. I have used Windows 7 for a long time now, and would not have a problem giving it up, but not for Windows 8. After visiting many major online retail sites, I've found that finding either a Windows 7 laptop, or even a laptop without an operating system is nearly impossible. So where should I go if looking for laptops sans os, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"
NewEgg still sells Windows 7 laptops. Go into the laptops/notebooks section and enter Windows 7 as a keyword. Some of the units that come back are refurbs, but some are brand new.
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
See comment subject. Doesn't come with Windows 8. Guaranteed.
https://www.system76.com/
Get a Macbook and then put Windows 7 on it.
Dell also has a Windows 7 page.
I'm sure any business-friendly vendor will have the same if you poke around.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Enough to run Linux pretty decent
spring to mind immediately...
This sig washed every five years whether it needs it or not!
I would suggest finding a used Laptop if you want to avoid windows 8. I work for a used computer sales company and we have 40 to 50 laptops a month that we sell with windows 7, vista, and even XP.
Also check Craigslist.
If you aren't buying used I don't know where you might find somebody still selling machines with windows 7.
You can go to Dell.com and they have the option to build your own laptop with the OS you want.
Newegg currently shows 32 Ultrabooks with Win7Pro. I call... bs.
Install a third party start button program that also takes you straight to desktop. At that point you basically have windows 7, just dont hold your mouse cursor in a corner or that not so lucky charms BS appears. Wish there was a way to turn that off.
First world problems; "I want my hardware to have an operating system. No, not THAT operating system! Some other operating system!"
Whatever, just install whatever. Its not like its hard to install an OS.. unless that OS is Linux and that hardware is made by Samsung..
Amazon has many. Just put in Windows 7 as one of the filters.
Windows 8 licensing includes downgrade rights. If you have the key and a Windows 7 disk you can re-install to Windows 7 with minimal problems. Double check to make sure this won't void your warranty though, if you care about that.
http://zareason.com/
I don't care about your karma, I don't care about what's hip. --Weird Al
Start8 from Stardock Software returns W7 look and feel, works fine
Order it an you can choose 7 instead of 8
If you're technically inclined to do so, many laptop manufacturers have a downgrade path. See this article on LifeHacker regarding this: http://lifehacker.com/5974318/downgrade-your-new-windows-8-computer-to-windows-7-for-free
The big PC maker's online storefronts have a consumer and business section. Your milage may vary but the business section of say, Dell or Lenovo, tilts towards good build quality, OS flexibility, and less crapware. Finding a Win7 machine is no problem at all.
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x230
Clevo based laptops typically come configured however you want and lacking whatever you don't want. No OS? no problem. You can also get em without hard drive, memory, chip, video card, whatever. They can be bought bare bones or with as much as you want in em. Also, the screen selection on them is usually much better. You can opt for much higher resolution than youll get in a dell etc...
Microsoft has a way of punishing those who do not fall in line. If you're going to use Windows, you're better off playing nice with them. Down the line, you'll want to install/use something that is no longer supported on Win7, and you'll regret not getting 8 now.
The only difference is it's a start screen instead of a start menu. It's really not that bad once you give it a chance.
All this anti new UI stuff cracks me up. WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?!?!?!
Most local computer shops will still be able to get new notebooks loaded with Windows 7. Some can even get XP loaded onto a new notebook.
I never do.
Really, the biggest change in Windows 8, is that I have to press the windows key when I login. Nothing else really changed in the OS for me. I still just hit win+r for the "Run" prompt, or click a shortcut in the number of places I've aggregated them that make much more sense than Win 7's start menu layout. I got Windows 8 because it was just $15 for a valid windows license.
I'm in full agreement that there's no reason to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 8. But if you get windows 8, it's not the end of the world (unless you're really married to the start menu). Or hell, if you really need the start menu, just go download it and install it. If you're on slashdot you should know how to do this. This askslashdot is kind of a no-brainer.
This is fighting a battle that doesn't need to be fought. Just get the hardware you want regardless of the OS that's pre-installed.
- You don't save significant money buying an "Ubuntu" laptop or whatever, but you severely limit your choices.
- Any pre-installed Windows OS will be full of crapware that you'll want to get rid of with a clean install anyway.
- It will be easier to resell later with the latest OS on it, if you ever want to sell it.
I'll reiterate Newegg, and add Amazon.com. Their list of top 10 selling laptops for Christmas, none of the top 5 were Win8, and all of those models are still for sale.
Builders such as Digital Storm, iBuyPower, and CyberPower PC among others still make build to order laptops with your choice of Windows 7, 8, Linux or even the option to leave the Hard Drive blank.
I just purchased a laptop from https://www.system76.com/ their laptops come only with Ubuntu, had excellent customization options, and reasonable pricing (why is it so hard to customize laptops nowadays, when did this happen =\ ) My colleague recommended them and I get my laptop Monday so I don't have first hand experience yet, but I just had to make this decision and that's what I ended with selecting.
Get a Thinkpad. I just got a W530 with a 1920x1080 screen, one of the few you can find outside Apple. It has great Linux support, even down to the silly fingerprint reader. I can easily get 7 hours or so on the battery with the recommended tweaks. There's a whole wiki just for Thinkpad stuff.
It ships with Windows 7, but you never have to boot into Windows. You can blow away the whole drive, "recovery" and "boot" partitions, and never look back. It has a conventional BIOS in addition to UEFI (disabled by default; leave it that way), so you shouldn't have any issues there.
It's a tank, it's not terribly sexy like an ultrabook, but it's great if you want a desktop-fast Linux-friendly workstation laptop.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Go to a local small computer store. Most of them still have loads of old laptops with other operating systems that they can't sell
System 76 sells pretty nice laptops with Ubuntu.
Do you have access to DreamSpark via your school? I study IT in Norway, and with my Microsoft DreamSpark login I can get a good bunch of their operating systems for free. If you do, then get a Windows 8 laptop (just make sure Windows 7 compatible drivers are available), then install Windows 7 from DreamSpark.
Another option is to install Start8 from Stardock or similar, if it is the new interface stuff you don't like. I found Windows 8 quite likable with a proper start menu.
Dvorak on Doomtech
The pro licence includes the right to downgrade to Win7.
The Toshiba laptop I just bought came with Windows 7 Pro installed, and install DVDs for Windows 8. Good solution for me.
Easier would be to buy second-hand.
If you are a fan of Windows 7, why are you so against Windows 8? Just click on the "Desktop" tile on the start screen and boom, it's Windows 7. There really aren't that many differences in user experience other than the start menu is now a start screen. You can continue to use Win8 the same way you used Win7.
My next laptop is going to be a Chromebook... All I use my laptop for is to surf the web, and the security updates are a pain in the butt. Chromebook to the rescue.
Dell sells plenty of good laptops that don't have Windows 8. One of their amazing laptops is the Project Sputnik laptop:
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx
If you don't want Ubuntu, here are a list of all the laptops that Dell have that have Windows 7. You can edit the laptop search options to find one suited for you.
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/laptops.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~ck=mn#!facets=80770~0~1791344&p=1
From pyrokey3
http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/
I've gotten one computer from them, and it was a mostly decent experience. (The card reader didn't work because of some weird incompatibility issue. I've forgotten the details now so i can't say if the problem was "obvious" enough that they should have warned me about it when i put the components together.)
A friend of mine has gotten a couple computers from them. One of them ended up having a flaky hard drive or something that was causing her some aggravation, but they seemed pretty reasonable with their support for the problem.
I believe all of the above computers were desktops, but it seems unlikely the laptop side of their business would be significantly different
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
I had the RC for a while. If you absolutely hate Metro you can download tools to can it and give yourself a reasonable replacement Start Menu, though the best ones cost money. StartMenu8 was the best of the free ones IIRC, while Stardock's Start8 was the best of the best but is like $20 or $30 or something like that. Then it's just like using Windows 7 with some minor enhancements (it doesn't get a lot of love but I love the Ribbon UI, and now Explorer has it).
I know of the top of my head that Alienware laptops still come with Windows 7. Possibly others too.
And as many others have pointed out, get Windows 8 Professional and use your downgrade rights. You just need Windows 7 Professional media and you can install it instead. (You want to reinstall any laptop yourself anyway so its clean and without bloatware and factory provided viruses.)
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
System76 is great. Really. Bought one for myself then another as birthday gift last year. I have always bought dell in the past. Bought a Sony once. Spend way too much for it. They didn't cover warranty. System76 is just like buying from Dell. They cover their stuff. Their stuff is well designed.
It either comes with windows 7 pro preinstalled or you can downgrade from windows 8 pro to windows 7 pro legally.
Before it's too late!
Is there a particular reason the submitter needs a brand, new laptop? The used PC market is massive. You can easily get a refurbished Intel i5 with Windows 7 for under $400.
With that being said, all of you people who buy new PC's all of the time: please keep doing so! Your purchases allow me to always have access to a strong, steady supply of very, very cheap computers. I don't remember paying more than $200 for a desktop, or $500 for a high end laptop in the last ten years, thanks to your generosity!
I don't respond to AC's.
I'm a notebook fan - need the portability for various reasons - and have bought from a few places.
If you want Windows, try Velocity Micro http://www.velocitymicro.com/ and look into their NoteMagix line. I just checked and you can pick between various Windows 7 and 8 flavors.
Or perhaps Sager Notebooks http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.php I bought a gaming notebook from them 3 years ago and it is still going strong (although I upgraded it to Windows 8 and swapped the HD for an SSD since then).
Or try System76, I bought a linux notebook from them and was happy with it. http://www.system76.com/
Sager has a bunch that you can configure with Windows 7. However, quite frankly, this all reminds me of the Vista hate that was perpetrated by people who had not even used it.
ding ding ding! We have a winner ladies and gents!
I thought you could freely downgrade to Windows 7? I remember reading something about that a while back. It might be worth looking into.
Brandon Gardner brandon.gardner@gmail.com
As great as the 'Egg is, they tend to be overpriced for everyday purchasing.
If you can wait:
My best suggestion is to get an account at fatwallet (a coupon/deal aggregator and forums site), and set up a "topic alert" where you get emails sent to you whenever a good deal with a specific keyword (I used "i5" as well as "14" "14.1" for my keywords for my last lappy). Also frequently visit slickdeals as they have a nicer layout and faster response time for sales of limited quantity.
It's usually these deal aggregator sites that pick up the best limited quantity sales of clearances (which will almost always be Win7 nowadays). And this will include anything good from the 'Egg.
If you are lucky
Outlets! One of the greatest things about outlets is the option to buy laptops that people have ordered, built, but then cancelled. These are "New" (as opposed to the dented box, or refurbs) on the outlet, and often come hundreds cheaper than buying completely brand new.
Outlets also have sales of 20-30+% off that will be picked up by SD and FW.
Of course, finding one of these takes a bit of patience as well as luck, but that's how I got my most recent lappy.
I honestly think that you should go with a MacBook Pro because Windows runs very well in a virtual machine on it. You have the best of both worlds at your finger tips. I really like my MacBook! I have a VHD with Windows 7 installed and I use VirtualBox to run it. No problems and very fast.
Some great deals can be had on refurb'd demos or off lease units for a fraction of the price of a new machine.
All good quality laptops last many years at this point, so wouldn't worry about lifetime.
But I would put in an SSD post haste.
Buy a chromebook and load it with Ubuntu? caveat - your school uses Windows only programs - then I guess Windows 8 it is.
"The windows PHONE isn't SELLING. we blew all this R&D money, what do we do?!!" I know - graft it on to the front of a desktop and get rid of the start menu to make the computer look really user friendly..then immitate schizophrenic behavior by having half the apps still open up or show updates in a desktop. Make our web browser behave differently depending on whether you are using it in Metro or Desktop mode. Hide all of the application icons and toolbars so that people have to spend 10 minutes right clicking on their apps in obscure places to see if any "secret" menus pop up with all of the options we all used to be able to access in 30 seconds. ..when a set of buttons finally slides into view then we have to be able to read heiroglyphics or guess at what each of the really modernist looking metro buttons do. "What does this round PLUS do George? Err...I dunno Fred push it an' find out!"
Try to find the PRINT button in Windows mail, I dare you - I finally just told my grandparents, "Press CTRL-P" "Oh gee, thanks!"
Microsoft has been writing software for 30 years now and they can't make an Email client that renders HTML messages correctly?? Give me a break. I know every other iteration of Windows is a badly baked beta that we all get the privlige of paying for but come on guys, people actually have to use these things. I guess it doesn't matter as long as it has the all-mighty "app store"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE
While I agree that Win 8 is complete crap on a standard ergonomic desktop or traditional laptop, it's pretty good on a laptop with a touchscreen. This is what's it's for, and if you can afford something like that, I'd recommend at least trying it out. It's actually not too bad on that kind of setup. You won't get gorilla arms with a laptop - only with external monitors.
HP has 8 current (i.e., not on clearance) laptops with Windows 7, most of which do not involve downgrade rights.
and your IP has been reported to Balmer. ;)
try www.apple.com
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=45271&vpn=GFC-02050&manufacture=Microsoft&promoid=1312
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Refurbs are the way to go. I ran into this dilemma recently when trying to pick out a new laptop for my mother, who would have been an absolute nightmare to transition to Windows 8. I ended up with an excellent-condition refurb from Dell for a great price.
Sure Microsoft isn't just working to get paid twice?
Once for the Windows 8 license that the oem pays for and once for the Windows 7 that the customer puts on it for twice the price the oem paid for Windows 8.
So screw that, the pirated copies of Windows 7 are getting much better, just go with that.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Seriously. It's the same, with a small UI change. The Start Menu is now accessed by moving your mouse to bottom left corner of the screen, and it's redesigned in a tile format. Other than that small change (which people make way too big a deal of), and moving the Control Panel to the settings menu (bottom right corner, click Settings), it works exactly the same, in my experience.
Dell makes many great laptops that aren't Windows 8. Such as, the XPS 13 Laptop which was just part of the new Project Sputnik. This was a Dell project when they wanted to manufacture a laptop that ran natively with Ubuntu for developers: XPS 13 Laptop Developer Edition
If you aren't a developer or you don't want Ubuntu 12.04, you can buy the same laptop with Windows 7: XPS 13 Laptop Windows 7 The XPS 13 Laptop is perfect for school use with its fast start time.
If this still isn't for you, try this page: Dell Windows 7 Laptops
Unless you're looking to get away from Windows, just install the freeware Classic Shell onto Windows 8 to make it boot to the desktop and have a Win 7 start menu. The OS is superior to 7 in a lot of ways once you suppress Microsoft's immense Metro-related screwup.
Got to www.zareason.com for Linux laptops. Good stuff and good prices.
At the risk of not actually answering the question you asked, why not use Windows 8? One click and you are on the desktop, and the experience is roughly the same as windows 7. If that one click is too much effort, install Classic Shell, and get almost exactly the same experience as windows 7. It works for me (YMMV).
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
see title
One really big downside when upgrading from W7 to W8 is the fact that retail users have no chance at all anymore to install the NFS client. With W7, this was available via the Ultimate version, but with W8 the NFS client only is delivered with the Enterprise version, which you can't purchase at all as retail user.
Get out of the stores with 3 choices, perhaps?
here
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-14-G4-2149se-Butterfly-Blossom-Design-Laptop-PC-with-AMD-A6-4400M-Processor-and-Windows-7-Home-Premium-with-Windows-8-Upgrade-Option-bundled-with/21191020
Newegg had 144 hits (lots of refurb, but better than craigslist suggested below!) on win 7 home premium alone.
Dell, Tigerdirect, even Walmart all had them.
I think this was meant to be posted next year...... ...and all those refurbs will still be there, even if new isn't....
It would be interesting to see how sales of Windows 7 vs Windows 8 compare. So many chairs would be thrown if it was discovered there were a sudden uptake in business class computers with Windows 7.
But since the submitter didn't seem to know they still exist, it would seem Microsoft is doing a good job trying to erase Windows 7.
...makers of Linux laptops. If you don't want Linux, get a System76 laptop and install Win7.
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
Get a windows 8 machine. Install Classic Shell. Set classic shell to turn off windows 8 features and emulate them as windows 7. Set windows 8 to auto-logon. All the benefits of Windows 8 while still looking like 7 and no driver issues. I've done it to three of my machines without a problem.
Try a convertible like the Lenovo Yoga. I got one for my daughter off at college, and she LOVES it....she had been on windows 7 ever since it came out. When you start using a laptop with a touch-screen and Windows 8, it all makes sense and is really something great. A windows 8 laptop without a touch screen doesn't work for me either.
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
Try http://www.linuxcertified.com. You can get a bare laptop there, and some come with Windows 7 dual-boot.
Buy direct with customizations.
Last I checked, you could go and build a Dell laptop and choose Windows 7. You may have to use the business line of laptops, but they all give that option.
And there's always Apple. Who I think still only provides Win7 drivers - I'm not sure they've got a huge demand for Win8 (though people have done Win8).
There's also a bunch of smaller builders who do Linux PCs...
MacOS, give it a try?
Do you find that normal that you have to install a third party start menu if you want one ? Microsoft doesn't even provide a way to install one as an option.
Win 8 + Official Start menu = Official Win 7 fine
Third Party Start menu = maybe bad
Win 8 - Official Start menu = crap
Win 8 - Official Start menu + Third party Start menu = Why the hell would I want an inferior product ?
Zoostorm laptops are available without operating system and come with all the drivers ready for you to load Windows of your choice, etc.
LOL. I've been a sysadmin for two decades. Trust me, the Vista hate was justified. As was the WinME hate. As is the Win8 hate.
Notice, there wasn't an uproar around Windows 2K, or XP, or Win7. It isn't that everyone bashes MS at every opportunity. However, when they put out crap, they get called on it, and their sales suffer appropriately. You'd think they'd learn to not put out crap.
Dell is continuing to sell Win7 laptops to edu institutions and corporate customers, and will continue to do so for quite some time. This is again parallel to the Vista debacle, where my organization bought WinXP machines from Dell until the day Win7 machines were available. We were never forced into purchasing a single Vista box.
"It's really not that bad"
That's the kind of thing someone says when they're hungry and eating stale crackers or something. "You know, after the first ten of these they don't suck so bad."
And this is about the best thing I've heard people say about Windows 8. You don't hear a lot of people saying "this thing freaking rocks and I love it".
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Last I knew Sony, HP and Dell all still sold new Windows 7 laptops this way.
Are you really that clueless, or did you just want to make a point that you dont like Windows 8? Windows 7 laptops are on sale everywhere. I mean seriously every-fucking-where
System76 sells good hardware with Linux pre-installed. I've been using a Gazelle Professional for a few months now and am happy with it. 15.6" 1920x1080 screen, i7-3630QM@2.4Ghz, 8gb ddr3@1600Mhz, 256gb 6Gb/s ssd, ~$1200. https://www.system76.com/
Why not build your own, Ben Heck style?
Yes, I realize how madly impractical that is, but you have to admit, you would more than likely have the bitchin-est lappy anyone at your school has ever seen!
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Lenovo allows you to select the operating system when you order online. I did quite a bit of research and I am very happy with this laptop. It's very durable and easy to upgrade. The screen is nothing to write home about but I am in an engineering program not a graphics design program. I am running linux mint as well as windows 7. I am happy to say that all the hardware works running under Linux even the fingerprint scanner.
... if the complaints against Windows 8 weren't common. That they are so common says there is something more to them than you're implying.
To me, tiles are just a horrible idea. They're like over-sized icons using 1980s-ish graphics. I hate more screens and sliding just to get to a damn application. Quicklaunch, tada. Even the Start Menu, not that far. Now? Start-Slide-Slide-Slide-Slide-Click. Fuck you.
You're welcome. Thread over.
Please buy hardware from a Linux friendly vendor. System76 is one I know of
Got an E530 last friday with windows 7. Was the display model. Don't want 8.
Problem Solved!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
Buy one with Win8 Pro and then use free downgrade: http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=sLMLnUlmfw8
Windows 8 is pretty tolerable if you know and do a few things.
1) If you can't find something, just type the name and it will probably show up as an icon.
2) Properties are at the bottom of the screen when you right-click and icon.
3) Move the mouse in diagonally from the left corner to get the stupid "menu."
4) Immediately download a start button substitute like classic shell.
Once you dig down, it's windows 7.
Microsoft apparently doesn't treat the acquired knowledge of their products by millions of users and developers is the extraordinarily valuable asset that it was. As Windows 8 continues to circle the drain, it's possible that even Microsoft's management may be getting this lesson. If so, expect Windows 8 "Classic" or "Business" or something. If they're just too collectively nutty to admit they made a mistake, well, Linux is a great thing, eh?
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
HP, Dell, Levono and others all have "Business" sales websites. Businesses are NOT using Windows 8, so almost everything offered on those sites at least has the option of running Windows 7. Also look at the enthusiast/gamer laptops...ibuypower.com lets you configure your laptop with Windows 7 as an option (or no os at all, if you are going Linux, why pay for Windows at all?). Falcon NW and others also let you do this. Good luck!
Check Lenovo or Dell. I heard a co-worker say Lenovo still has Windows 7 available, not sure about Dell. I would stay away from others, maybe Asus would be ok.
Or do the best thing and get a Mac Laptop and you can run anything you want, personally I'd stay with OS X.
1) Buy the laptop you want with Win8 on it.
2) Download Classic Shell
The only big interface change is the Metro Start Menu. everything else in desktop mode is what you know from Windows 7. If you don't want to deal with Metro, Classic shell will get rid of that for you.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
I wish to parrot what many of the more sane posters have already said: just use Windows 8. Give it a try, it's actually not too bad. You said you're willing to give up Windows for something else, but you don't have to. You're obviously comfortable with Windows 7, but Windows 8 is basically the same. So you hate Metro? Don't use it, simple as that. Booting directly to the desktop is as simple as changing a registry key, and if you simply must have the Start menu back, just find a replacement - there's a few good ones around, and the best one only costs $5. Just ignore Metro, and you have Windows 7 with a few awesome new long-awaited features, such as the new file progress dialogue. Seriously, just get over it - buy a Windows 8 laptop, try it, install Windows 7 later if you can't handle 8.
I love the Windows 7 widgets, so to get them back I just install 8GadgetPack. That was one of the only two features I really miss from Windows 7, and that solution works excellent.
(The other feature I miss from Win7 was the option to run old programs in NT4 compatibility mode. That is now gone and the options are Win98 and XP. I used NT4 mode to play Homeworld with OpenGL graphics. Not a big deal.)
Central Computers, Silicon Valley's local computer store chain, has many Windows 7 laptops. Some are listed with "Windows 7 Downgrade Option.
Central Computer will do a "no crapware" install for you if you ask. They actually printed "no crapware" on the invoice for the last machine I bought.
Windows 8 is everything Windows 7 is and more and instead of a dated Windows 95 inspired Start Menu, you get the Start Screen. So what?!! Really unbelievable that you would buy an old OS. I ignore the Start Screen at home and am perfectly happy with Windows 8. Give it a few weeks, you'll be fine. This is change resistance, nothing more. Windows 8 is a superior operating system as it does everything Windows 7 does, but Windows 7 cannot do everything Windows 8 can. I can't believe Slashdot users would let a little inconvenience of getting used to something get in the way of more powerful functionality.
I'm sure the subsidies microsoft paid to have Win8 installed on that laptop actually make it cheaper overall than buying a laptop without an os. If you were thinking of moving to a linux distro, just wipe the damn thing.
Buy a tablet with a keyboard option. Such as the asus T700. Won't run windows 8, won't run any windows in fact, because it uses an incompatible arm processor. It will run linux just fine though.
Won't work if you need windows 7, but a computer without windows is easy enough to buy these days. And it is possible to go through life without a windows computer. It works for me.
I have to second the suggestion for Start8 to fix Win 8.
It brings back the start menu, ungimps the windows key to allow search, and lets you login straight to the desktop.
Then you can think of Win 8 as a Win 7 install where the deprecated sidebar gadgets have been replaced with these silly tab gadget-like things that will be equally avoided.
The only other remaining downsides to Win 8 are also included in Win 7 and Vista so that shouldn't be a problem at all, as you said Win 7 is fine.
The other option is to get a laptop that has win 7 drivers available
Any OEM laptop over a couple months old should meet those requirements (IE Dell HP Levono/IBM ASUS Thinkpad etc)
Or get an Apple, they have drivers from XP forward.
Alienware still makes Win 7 laptops, although they are more geared towards gaming, but a beefy GPU isn't much of a downside IMHO ;} - Seriously thou, the only downside there is price.
But they have entry level laptops starting at $1000, and do run deals on and off that you'll need to keep an eye on.
But I gather you aren't looking for a cheap laptop, since the only really low prices ones will either be deals bundled with Win 8 to lower the price (MS gives them kickbacks for these sales) or will be too underpowered to run any Windows except a gimped XP or 2000 install.
I'd have to recommend an Alienware, and a close second being an Apple.
Anyone who hasn't been searching the Win7 start menu has been doing it wrong. Search works the same in 8. Stop fighting it and use the very good desktop search.
http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=linux+laptop&cat=all&a
Meh. Why bother. You are being too difficult. You are artificially limiting your choice and possibly forcing yourself to make a sub-optimal purchase.
After all the horror stories I'd heard about Win8, I went shopping specifically to buy a laptop with whatever OS (preferably win7) so that I could either wipe it or make it dualboot and install Ubuntu/some flavour of linux. I figured I'd have a good play with win8 in the shops and see what the fuss was all about.
Ended up buying a Samsung laptop with Win8 on it at the start of January. (8Gb Ram and it was cheap ;) First time since DOS that I've had to watch a tutorial to figure out how to do basic stuff in an OS, other than that it's ok-ish. Win8 was $%^%$^$% frustrating in the first week, but now it only gets in the way occasionally. (Having said that, I haven't used it for development yet)
I was going to make it dualboot with Ubuntu, but slashdot tells me that this might brick the laptop, so I'm using VirtualBox to run Ubuntu 12.10 and next week I'll create another VM for the latest version of Fedora (honesly, how bad can it be ;)
I can see a point coming up where Win8 will start to annoy me, and then I'll wipe the whole thing and install some flavour of linux permanently. :)
It doesn't matter what version of Windows is on your laptop, you're not stuck with it and you can still install whatever OS you like.
Unless you buy a Samsung laptop like I did - but I believe there is a fix available, I'll wait for the next version of Ubuntu before I risk it
TLDR; Win8 is ok, it's not that different from Win7. Just buy a Win8 laptop with the specs that you like and get over it.
Xotic pc still offers laptops with a choice of Windows 7 or 8 installed. The prices can be a little high, but I do like their customization options. If the prices of the gaming laptops are too high, you can stick to the business section. Also, order early assuming you do go with them, it took them several weeks to ship to me last time I ordered.
www.xoticpc.com/
There are lots of manufacturers that make laptops WITHOUT Windows 8, there are some on the interwebs, and I've even found a few brick-and-mortars. You just have to get off your ass and look. I found a few that even sell laptops with whatever flavor of Linux you prefer installed. But then... you will pay through the nose for most of these options, compared to the cost of just holding your nose, buying one with Windows 8 on it, and then formatting the HDD and installing whatever YOU want on it. I for example did this to a great netbook from Acer that I got for under 200 dollars, (from, yes... WALMART) that more than met my needs.
Despite the "Windows Tax" the economies of scale make it cheaper to pay the WinTax, and then wipe the thing and install what YOU want on there. For us, the consumers, I have found it's cheaper to accept whatever dog of an OS the manufacturer thinks we want because the demand for hardware with whatever the latest piece of shit, pathetic excuse for an operating system Misrosoft ships out to manufacturers is almost always highest, so that's what they make the most of, and hence that's what ends up being the cheapest.
If you REALLY want your computer to arrive without that crappy little Windows Logo, the insignia of inferiority being foisted upon the masses because of cleverer dodges around competition, and of unending security flaws and every sort of headache imaginable... if you want to have the freedom to install what YOU want not OVER some other OS, but in place of NO OS on a blank HDD, you can easily do so, just realize that the lack of economies of scale in the wake of Misrosoft's continuing near monopoly on OS's, you best be prepared to pay several times what the same hardware (or equivalent hardware) would cost from someone else.
What with doing Windows support for a living I use the new and old Windows versions all the time. I run 8 at work, 7 at home. 8 is fine, once you get a start menu back. Start 8 is my favourite, costs $5. Start is Back costs $3 and actually restores the Windows start menu, the code is still in Win 8, at least most of it. Classic Shell is of course free and works fine, I just don't care for it as much.
One that is there, it works real well. It is fast and stable, and it has some improvements I like, the new task manager is quite nice.
It isn't worth rushing out to upgrade, it isn't OMGbettar than 7, if you have 7 stick with it. However it isn't problematic. It runs every program I've tried on it that also ran on 7 (and I've tried a lot) and it isn't problematic to use.
For that matter even the new start menu is perfectly usable, it is just more clunky than what it replaced. It isn't hard to use, just slower and inelegant. Perfectly usable though, we leave it on the 2012 servers we have.
I've used it, and it sucked. Did not want, Do not want, Will not want. Will always recommend against. I used that monstrosity for two weeks, trying to give it a chance. It is nothing more then the bastard offspring of a desktop and tablet oses, and it does neither well, particularly on a non touch screen.
The fact that I have to use third party tools to get it to act like what my customers want is one of my main problems. My customers DO NOT WANT what is not familiar. It is a conservative group that I work with. Heck changing as much as it did from XP to 7 really threw them off.
Considering that there is no technological reason why they did not include a gp to allow enabling the actual start button, and disabling Metro means Microsoft did not value the fact that I have customers that do not want it to change. They did not value MY opinion and I am the one who has to deal with their users. I am steering all of my clients to use Windows 7, and many of them have purchased extra licenses for future use.
You may handwave my arguments away if you like, that does not make you correct, insightful, or even the slightest bit intelligent. It just means you fail to see things from others point of views.
all of dell current laptops on the home side like the inspiron 15r and 17r come with win8, but also have win7 drivers available to download. Just switch the UEFI bios to legacy with F12 on boot up. Then install with a win7 retail/oem disc from newegg, or if your lucky and have a Dell oem windows 7 install disc use that and don't even have to activate.
...get over yourself and use Win8. So there's so Start Button - install Start8 or Classic shell or whatever. I use the Metro start menu it's fine.
Everything else is fine, in fact it's better and runs a smoother than 7. 7 is good, 8 seems to be better IMO having used it on a desktop for the last six month. I do recommend 64bit and 8GB RAM and you will have no problems - RAM is cheap.
It is nothing more then the bastard offspring of a desktop and tablet oses, and it does neither well, particularly on a non touch screen.
So you are saying that the desktop environment does not function well, when it is 99.999% identical to windows 7, then you go on to recommend windows 7. Something here does not compute.
If you just disable Metro and get your start menu back with Start8, RetroUI, Classic Shell, or other options, you've got Win7 with a few nice upgrades. It's not worth a lot of effort or extra money to stick with Win7 (though if you can for the same price, go for it) Nor would I suggest most people pay the upgrade price for an existing Win7.
I do this at work - nobody even notices except one of our IT guys when he saw my lock screen, which looks a bit different under 8. More to the point I can swap back between it and Win7 machines and not even care or notice except that Win8 has a nicer copy/move box.
Nuff said.
As much as I endorse, in general, speaking with your wallet and avoiding purchasing things that should really die a firey death - and Windows 8 is definitely in that category... sometimes there aren't any good alternatives, and you just have to suck it up.
That said, I already mod out basically as much of the Windows 7 UI as I possibly can, and I know all the stuff I use to get rid of crappy UI design in 7 also works in 8 (Classic Shell, XYPlorer, FileLocator, and 7 Taskbar Tweaker (now renamed to 7+ Taskbar Tweaker)). So at this point, I figure if I'm ever forced to use Win8, there's a good chance once I reinstall all that stuff, nothing will really change significantly.
Aside from having to pay for Windows 8 and then having to pay for Windows 7, you can't always count on being able to install an older operating system. Sometimes, if the hardware was built after Win8 was available to the manufacturer, they don't produce drivers that will work under older O.S.s. Saw this a lot after vista came out and you couldn't always get XP to run on the hardware.
And, of course you take a big chance with a refurb computer. There are often reasons why it was returned in the first place, such as dead pixels. And refurbs don't get fresh replacement batteries, so you may not get the battery life you expect.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
see subject, and stop lying
The desktop is not '99.999% identical to windows 7'. That annoying part you have to IMMEDIATELY see and deal with is the part that is 00.001% familiar, and THAT'S the part that is pissing off so many long time Windows users. Some of us actually use our computers to 'do work' as opposed to playing around and learning new/unnecessary ways to surf the web and do effectively nothing. My wife took her new Toshiba WIN8 laptop (great hardware/price) back this xmas after several weeks of frustration, and bought an iMac. She didn't like the iMac's price, but she couldn't be happier with the functionality. Balmer needs to consider retirement.
I was happy with http://www.rjtech.com/. They offer a lot of customization options on top of their bare bones laptops, and I found their service excellent. They're not cheap, but they've got some very nice kit, and I didn't have to give MS money for an OS I didn't want.
There's nothing different enough about Win8 from Win7 that should stop you from buying a laptop for that reason. It's not hard to just... press the start button. Or gasp... slashdot users... can't get used to an interface that is launcher-centric. Just learn to adapt because one day there will only be Win8...
I was looking for laptops today, and it seems most of the business class Thinkpads come with Win 7 installed, and media for Win8 in the box.
Yes, you could buy a laptop with an earlier version of Windows, or install your own copy. But that's a short-term solution. In a few years, Microsoft will stop providing security updates for Windows 7 and you're going to have to make a choice. Windows or something else.
The problem is that Windows 8 is the future of Windows, and if you think Windows 8 sucks, then the future of Windows is going to suck for you. You may as well get used to another platform starting now rather than get hurried into it later.
That said, I hate Macs. I friggen' hate pretty much every UI decision they've made since OS6, and I hate quite a few that date from before then too. But my next computer will be a Mac. Because the Mac UI may be counterintuitive, but at least it's consistently counterintuitive.
Or maybe the year on Linux on (my) desktop is coming sooner than I thought...
Just get Windows 8 and a Start Menu replacement. (There are a dozen out there.) Congrats, now you have Windows 7.
If there's something you dislike other than the start page, click on the “Small Business” section of Dell (or probably any other big builder). I just bought a W7 computer there last week.
It's sad how many suggestions are, "Just buy the Windows 8 laptop, wipe, then install whatever you want." Otherwise known as, "Just roll over and take it."
A bit OT, but you shouldn't care about OS except Linux vs Mac OS.
My reasoning is that you can buy a Windows license for 7 and reformat nearly any laptop except Apple laptops. You can use Linux on many laptops, but you should do research to ensure compatibility. Since you are a student, a license for Win 7 will be very inexpensive, especially when distributed over the average 4 years of college. Since you are not in college, you have time to deal with reinstalling a Windows operating system, so the time factor is also moot (if you're using Linux, you'll need to do that anyway unless supporting a Linux vendor).
Unless I totally misunderstand secure boot and UEFI and all that other new lockdown junk Win 7 will work on any Win 8 machine.
So, in my opinion you should be asking: "Which portable laptop will have the _highest resolution_ and fit in my budget"
All things being equal, this (and an SSD, which you can upgrade whenever -- but is DIY and should be done ASAP) is the biggest factor to productivity on a laptop. GET A NICE SCREEN! You're going to look at it every day for 4+ years! High resolution, IPS. Buy the biggest SSD that fits in your budget and swap out the one that comes with your machine (again assuming you don't go with an Apple machine). Now you have a responsive machine and a portable hard drive (throw the large drive that came with your laptop in an inexpensive USB powered enclosure)
|plastic....or gasoline?|
Sager. Sager historically has been considered the best laptop maker, by many people, for at least the past 12 years. They're made in the usa and they use chassis made in the usa. They have windows 7 options and lifetime tech support. Their 1920x1080 screens are breathtaking too.
Why a main laptop? Get a cheap, slow, portable, disposable notebook / budget laptop, and build your own powerful desktop computer. College students get Windows Server 2K12 (or 2K8R2) 100% free (via Microsoft Dreamspark). I guess I'm too old to understand laptop obsession. I need at least two monitors, and a real keyboard / mouse to be productive. (I dearly miss IBM Model M keyboards). There's no reason not to use Win8, except compatibility (they did change some security stuff). There's Classic Shell, and, you can run WinRT apps. Anyway, the only way around the eternal idiotification of Shells (after NT 4), is to somewhat accept it. Even Linux users are tortured with new weird stuff too.
Despite my vehement hate of tiles - I see them as little more than a poor man's LCARS - Windows 8's interface is arguably alright for a tablet like the Surface. However, for desktops and laptops without touch screens, which still make up the majority of those out there, it sucks.
To replace the Start menu with the Start screen would be just fine on a touch enabled computer, but without touch, the change is effectively indefensible.
Buy a powerful desktop system with windows 7. Use Remote Desktop or your favorite flavor of remote control app when you need to do something that you can't do on the tablet. The tablet is probably more portable and has better battery life than your standard laptop, and I'd bet the combination could be as cheap as buying the laptop.
Sager notebooks still allows you to install Windows 7 on their machines. www.sagernotebook.com
Buy something with win8pro, and use downgrade rights to install 7.
Must be 8pro, not regular.
or just get start8 or something similar.
Go for a Lenovo. You still have the option Win7 and will last forever.
I really like company because they support free software. Unlike most companies they have taken an active role in funding distributions like Linux Mint and even Trisquel (a completely free distribution). They only ship freedom friendly hardware that *can* be properly supported across distributions. Not just now but in the future. Too many companies ship with hardware dependent on proprietary software.
This is a transition period for MS. I believe it was Steve Jobs that said there is no need and no one will ever want a touch display on a laptop"...or something to that affect. The truth is, we're adjusting the way we do things because of phones and tablets. Now people are becoming more accustom to touching the display. It's actually quite curious that Apple didn't make this move first. Now, they will be playing catch-up to MS in the next few years.(queue iFanBois angry reply now)
Once you abandon the old way of doing things (mouse/touchpad) and realize that your display will do what you want by touching it, it is so nice and easy and fast to simply touch the button on the screen rather than moving a cursor until you hover, then click. Touch the button with your finger and you're done. Windows 8 makes sense.
Then of course, you will enjoy the ability to read news and play games that are touch enabled. I do like the news layout of the Windows 8 articles. Side scrolling, nicely spaced, easy to process (no as busy and endless and a vert. scroll).
All that being said, I have 4 Windows 8 computers, a Surface, Yoga, Sony Tap 20, high powered Asus, and then several Android tablets, but I still use a Windows 7 computer (with LOTS of horse-power and 4 displays). I'm not changing to four touch-displays in order to use Win 8 on this beast. No need for my work to have touch, but going to college, writing papers, the average person today using a laptop, I'd go full touch screen windows 8 laptop/convertible in a heart-beat.
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
Here in the third world, it's quite easy to find laptops not bundled with Windows. Apparently, when it comes to computers and mobile phones, people here in the third world have more freedom of choice compared to you people in the so-called free world.
Notice, there wasn't an uproar around Windows 2K, or XP, or Win7.
I think it's also partially selective memory. I remember an uproar around Win2k. It was supposed to be what XP later was. It promised better USB support and better legacy support than it delivered. Yet it was a leap ahead enough that very old NT 3.11 applications failed to run, causing all sorts of headache for those keeping ancient applications alive. ME was the "lets move this crap out the door because Win2k is not usable in a home environment (games, USB printer/all in ones, etc.)" reaction. It wasn't a planned release. 98SE was, and it was good, so good it broke the "avoid every other release". 98 was better than 95, and 98 SE better than that. ME was a stop-gap puked out by MS because Win2k was an admitted failure, and was panned for not hitting the target. XP was what 2k was suposed to be. Gaming on a business line of code, with no core code from the home line of OS. That's what Win2k was sold as before it was out, and it missed. It was better than NT 4.0, but NT 4.0 SP3,5, or 6 (there was no SP4) were closer to 2k than MS liked.
This is again parallel to the Vista debacle, where my organization bought WinXP machines from Dell until the day Win7 machines were available. We were never forced into purchasing a single Vista box.
I know plenty of places that moved from NT4.0 to XP. The only ones that moved to Win2k were the ones who thought you had to for the server improvements. Notice how Server never matched workstation after 2000? That's because the server people thought the bad desktop was holding them back. I'd be curious to know how many moved from NT4.0 to XP and how many went from XP to 7. Was there really that much of a difference? XP was not panned because the two OSs it replaced were either Win2k or ME, depending on where you were coming from. And it was a big improvement over either. 7 was much better than Vista, even if not better than XP. 8 isn't any worse than 7, so long as you know what alt-tab is, and a few of the win+[other key] combos are.
Learn to love Alaska
Honestly, all the dislike for Windows 8 comes down to belly-aching about how "different" the effing Start Screen is.
Windows 8 is hands down a better OS than Windows 7. It's faster, it's lighter, it has better security, it manages memory better, it has some great features that same-level Windows 7 doesn't--like BitLocker and Storage Spaces-- hell, gamers are even seeing small performance gains (~4%, but good for an extra frame or two per second.)
Plus, if you *really* still hate the Start Screen, there's software from StarDock and others that add a very good start menu back to the classic desktop, and very-nearly transform Win8 into a Win7 doppelganger.
I just mean that if you aren't philosophically opposed to Windows as a whole, then foregoing Windows 8 is akin to buying last year's model of your preferred automobile just because you don't like the paint on this year's model -- You're giving up enhanced functionality for what is essentially aesthetics.
Anyone saying they can't stand Windows 8, has not actually used Windows 8. It is a direct upgrade from Windows 7 in every way. Anything you could do with Windows 7, you can still do, faster and better and easier, with Windows 8.
Sticking with Windows 7 and neglecting Windows 8 is like sticking with XP instead of migrating to windows 7*. Its painful but it's like ripping off a bandaid. Better to get it over with. To ease the transition for myself, I bought a Toshiba Satellite P875 with a pretty damn good processor and I emulate Windows 7 in Virtual Box about 50% of the time. All of the security benefits of windows 8 without the "Metro" UI.
Just to polish off the transition, I used "ninite" to install a "Start" menu. "Classic Shell Windows 8 Start Menu"
http://ninite.com/
*It could be compared to sticking to XP instead of migrating to Vista, but does anyone want to risk running an out of date operating security with the state of computer security being what it is?
Just go to a pc website and look at something other than a home machine....
Get classic shell, it's free, and it makes win 8 usable, eliminates the start screen, adds back the start menu. Then associate photos back with windows photo viewer and wipe all other associates w/the metro apps and you're good to go. I resisted win 8 for a long time then found classic shell, now it's no big deal.
It's what I did, I just bought a new laptop. Not only that, but it was a very specific previous generation model that was very hard to find (*you* try finding a brand new, still-in-production laptop with a 7-row keyboard the way God intended ... nope, not even ThinkPads anymore, it's an absolute travesty)
Look on eBay, Amazon, Google Products and all the usual suspects. You might actually find something in the most unexpected place. I managed to find mine from B&H Photo, one of my favorite online retailers. I usually buy my camera gear from them, but I totally forgot that they sell computers and all sorts of things (I'm not astroturfing, I've just always had nothing less than an ideal shopping experience with them)
Heck, look around your local area, too. Check out the local computer shops, ask if they have last year's models in the warehouse or if they can order a specific Windows 7 model PC from a supplier. Look at used computer shops, there are plenty of suckers who dump their old electronics to get shiney new ones. Used top model ThinkPads are pretty solid buys, look at the venerable T series.
Last time I checked, I think Dell still offered a Windows 7 option on some of their products, but that may have changed by now.
Windows 7 laptops are still out there, but you've gotta put in the effort to find them.
Look at any laptop you would want. Then checkout that manufacturers support website and see if they have all compatible drivers for Windows 7. Paying attention to the manufacturer's hardware, such as the Fn key software (for brightness and volume control). If they don't provide your basic drivers for Windows 7 (ie Video, motherboard chipset, wifi, BT, display), look for another laptop and possibly another manufacturer. Surprisingly, my work HP laptop they bought over three years ago (whenever Vista first came out), supports not only XP, Vista, and 7, but also Windows 8. My IT dept had downgraded the Vista that came with it to XP. I upgraded it to 7 not too long ago and it runs great.
Xotic PC has quite a few good laptops and a ton of customization options. I've purchased several laptops for myself, my wife, and my customers through them. The one big warning I would say about them is do NOT order them if you are in a hurry. They do take time to build and ship if you get customization options, and they don't seem to carry a large supply of their parts on hand. (Don't blame them for inventory tax $)
Other than that, they're always super friendly to deal with and I always get my laptop just the way I want it.
http://www.ontheflycomputerguy.com/lenovo.pdf
I have purchased twice from https://www.powernotebooks.com/
You make returning the license sound like an ordinary transaction, akin to returning a pair of pants at the Gap.
That's not the case for the vast majority of vendors. When I spent some time googling and reading wikipedia, I don't see that any major vendor has a simple, guaranteed way of returning Windows. The wikipedia page is full of anecdotes, all from Europe, of people who worked out case-by-case solutions and/or had to sue to return the license.
The "windows tax" is absolutely alive and well. Don't tell someone to simply "return the windows 8 license for a refund" without telling them it will be an uncertain process with an uncertain outcome, which could easily result in a poorer payout (in dollars per hour spend negotiating the return) than minimum wage.
Dell XPS Developer Edition (comes with Linux instead of Windows)
http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx?~ck=mn
You must not have been looking very hard. Dell sells both ubuntu and windows 7 laptops. Dell's xps-13 has won several awards.
ask slashdot replace google or 30 seconds of browsing web sites of well-known pc vendors?
- If you don't like Win8's UI, just add ClassicShell (or a competitor, but ClassicShell is good and free) to Win8, it will make it look just like Win7
- is it about cost ?
- is it about philosophy ?
Double check if your courses require some software that only runs under Windows. Or Linux.
Instead of focusing on the OS, you should focus on sturdiness and battery life, though.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I own a computer repair store and 90% of my stock comes from a large, respectable pawn shop in town. I test it and review the error logs before buying. They have so many, I can target ASUS, Toshiba, Samsung, Sony, and MSI (aka the top 5 in reliability) and get it for a decent price with Windows 7. The #1 best buy right now is an i3 or even pentium B or AMD A8 or higher Toshiba Satellite laptop from the L7xx series. Those are practically flawless and use great internal parts. The price was nice brand new so now used they're quite low for what you get.
First off, FUCK BUYING OFF THE SHELF SYSTEMS! All these brick and mortars are going to do is sell you a craptastic system at an inflated price. And of COURSE all they'll sell you is Windows 8.
Dell
HP
Lenovo
Toshiba
Samsung
Sony
Sager You can still order their products with Win7. The configuration app gives you the option.
MSI MSI laptops still come with Win7. There's a push for Win8, but they come with Win7 by default.
Acer still sells Win7 laptops (just no way on the web to filter for them, so I can't provide a definitive link).
That should be enough to get you started.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
If your purpose is to just take notes, research, and take online tests a chromebook will suffice. I use a chromebook in college, in fact it has been pretty much all offline useage for taking notes due to having class off campus at a different location without wi-fi. I think the ebooks I've used have been browser based and should be fine with a chromebook. For normal classes theres not really a need for anything more than a chromebook and if there is just remote access your home computer for those rare occasions.
Only downfall to that is that Google Docs doesn't sync to allow offline access of the files you have 2 options download it as a different file such as .docx or open it up when you have internet access. Or the much simplier just pay the 70-80 more for 2year 100mb month 3g or hotspot smartphone which most will do.
Beyond that the only real grip is that Google Docs doesn't have a grammer/spelling check it will tell you what is misspelled but that is the extent. So load it up in MS Word or whatever you prefer and do a check on that before submitting a paper if you want to.
I personally own a ARM based Samsung Chromebook for $250 you cant beat it hardware wise. It's actually more powerful than the atom based netbooks from benchmarks I've seen. You do actually get 6.5h battery life in real world use. The big gripe for hardware is the light sensor can be a bit annoying for adjusting screen brightness and too sensitive a times so you can manually adjust that to override that if you want. Keyboard to top notch and is a pleasure to type on. Doesn't really heat up, and only does very slightly with continuous usage of watching videos.
Oh and Chrome OS has 128bit AES encryption for user data, "self healing", and a bunch of other little things in terms of security. Pretty much that is all handles by the OS and requires no intervention by you at any point. Which to me is quite nice as I like having my portable laptops to just freaking work as I use them on the go.
Beyond that take the money you save and put it towards something else. As an added bonus you might get the reaction I get from girls with the "That's a Chromebook, and it's such a cute laptop, I love it!" and well you know what they say. Initiating the conversation is half the battle.
What's with this FUD that's old enough to send to the liquor store for you, anyhow? You can get almost any major-brand laptop these days and install one of the more common Linux distros on it without iss---...
Oh, right. Nevermind...
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Dellauction.com sells off lease laptops typically with no OS or anything from XP through 7 and all the systems are reconditioned back to original specs.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
nuff said
You can Buy the same laptop with Windows 7, Windows 8 or FreeDOS only in my country. In fact a good deal of laptops sold in Bulgaria come with FreeDOS. And i mean brand names like Dell, HP, Lenovo, Toshiba, etc. Its like they already know you will not install a licensed copy and they lower the price tag by excluding the OEM OS copy of WIndows, eventhough its cheap with regional discounts and all that. So I feel sorry for you. I don't know how this is done, but is is 100% legit and your local stores seem to be forcing the Win8 On you. I Feel bad about them and sorry for you.
If youre in the UK, overclockers.co.uk sell their own range of high spec gaming laptops with the choice of no OS. Also novatech.co.uk also have their own range as well. Ive bought from both and had no problems.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Try looking at HP, Dell and Lenovo.
For instance, here's a few of the ones from HP, Simply filter on "Operating System: Windows 7 (64 bit)":
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B0C30EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B8W13AA&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=H4P02ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=C5A68ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
Similarly, I found a whole bunch of Thinkpads from Lenovo which ships with Windows 7 after searching for about 1 minute.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
What's so difficult about buying the laptop you want and then just formatting and installing Windows 7?
In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
Just get the laptop with the specs / price you want and if it has Windoze 8 on it install one of the many programs, many free, that make it look / act / feel like Windoze 7. My family has had two laptops die in the last month or so, one right before x-mas and one two weeks ago. I replaced them both with good deals, but both had Windoze 8. It is a horrible OS for laptops, but I installed a free program call Classic Shell Setup that makes them look / feel like Windoze 7 for the most part and the wife and son are happy.
sig, what sig, am I supposed to have a sig? I don't want a sig. I don't need a sig.
Windows 8 is nothing more than a more than an optimized Windows 7. I beta tested Windows 8 early on and immediately formed a negative opinion, and jumped on the "Here comes the next Vista" bandwagon. After talking with a developer at work who upgraded his work laptop from 7 to 8, I decided to give it a chance and built a new PC with Windows 8. My opinion has now shifted and I have found it to be quicker and lighter weight than Windows 7. Give it a try, you just might be surprised.
I too am shopping for a Win7 machine and finding it to be a bit of a challenge.
Why are there always so many people eager to jam Win8 down your throat. If my criteria is Win7 (for whatever reason) just recognize that is what I want and don't try to convince me otherwise, completely ignoring the question at hand. If you were at a car dealership with the intentions of purchasing an SUV and the dealer kept telling you... no, no, your kids will fit into this 4 door and it will get better mileage, you'll like it.. are you buying the 4 door? Didn't think so. That said, if you can help us find places w/ more options please do speak up! After all, more of us avoiding Win8 will just amp up the discounts on those Win8 machines even more (yes, they're cheaper than Win7 machines right now).
So far I've had a little luck on Amazon creating a list of options to consider, and a few in Dell's outlet (here's where the people who are staunch anti-Dell jump down my throat too).
Good luck (to both of us).
It's actually an upgrade, but not officially...
BlameBillCosby.com
Buy a Windows 8 laptop. Click on Desktop after booting. Have the Start8 app installed.
You have, basically, a Windows 7 machine now.
Sheesh.
Those bitching about the charms bar - you can disable it if you really want. Metro notifications - the only time I see those, is when I put in a CD/DVD - I bet there's a way to turn them off, too.
Seriously, just use the desktop. It's basically the same. Win+Q pulls up a search box. That's basically all you need to know.
hi
okay a question for the group
How can you without installing a utility disable "Metro" (and restore the Start Menu) and have it come up ON BOOT that way??
please note for the JFGI crowd I have tried but i can only see
1 OLD articles (preRTM)
2 articles selling utilities
3 Fluff articles that don't apply at all (or are on Win7)
Either list the steps or give a direct link please.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
It's not hard to find configure to order vendors. They allow you to select pre-installed OS or none.
We just bought a Dell Vostro with Windows 7. We didn't want to be a beta tester of Win 8 either.
I think all the Chomebooks will dual-boot with Linux. And they start at $199.
HP is still selling lots of laptops with Win7.
You've just explained the good release/bad release cycle!
All of these comments are stupid because you can downgrade from Win8 to Win7.
I've done this on 50 laptops. Just call microsoft.
Aside from the Metro UI, Windows 8 isn't all that different than Windows 7. In fact, I think it is a little more efficient on the back end. The problem with Windows 8 is the Metro UI. For non-touch devices, it is horrible. I installed Start8 for $5.00 in order to avoid Metro but still use Windows 8. Now, Start8 boots me directly to the desktop and I have a Windows 7 style menu. I get the back end improvements in Windows 8 with the UI of Windows 7.
OS X Mountain Lion is definitely not Windows 8. And a Mac can run Windows 7 if that floats your boat.
Buy beer with the extra money.
Get a MacBook, and use the included BootCamp to run Windows7. You will have to boot into the OS you want, but that shouldn't be much of a hassle unless you switch between OS's often.
photosMy Photostream
VMware workstation may be an option for you. Would allow you to use Win 7 as you wish, but keep win8 around so you can familiarize yourself with it as time permits. Best of both worlds.
If you go to the business computer section of online computer vendors like HP and Dell, you can find laptops that can be ordered with Windows 7 Professional rather than Windows 8. Technically they're being sold with Windows 8 Professional, with the downgrade right to Windows 7 Profession already exercised for you, so you will have the right to switch back to Windows 8 should you ever want to do that (like, after SP1 restores the ability to have the Start menu).
http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/hardware/hardware-laptops.html
why is it a big deal if it ships with Windows 8? Just format the hd and bam... os-free laptop.
Buy a laptop from eRacks Open Source Systems and have them install Windows 7 on it for you. They'll even set it up as a dual-boot system with a Linux OS if you want.
http://eracks.com/products/laptops/
Google it...
I don't use windows at all, plus I get it free through a student account from the university. So, I bought the laptop I liked the most, don't activate anything on it, don't even boot it, the moment you buy it, call the tech support and ask for a windows refund (Yes, it's a real thing). You have to insist on it because they will try to put you off. Helpful if you mention reading the Windows EULA and knowing your rights and stuff like that.
I did it with Acer, if you are dealing with them, ask for Tier 2 tech support, only they can do it, the other guys below them don't even know what it means.
I got $60 back on a $450 laptop, pretty decent I guess.
Seriously, install Classic Shell and forget about Metro.
Win8 actually has some nice new features: nice new task manager and damn quick boot times, being the most noticeable for me. The apps are okay for some things, like news and netflix. Unlike Vista, Win8 is actually an improvement on its predecessor (forgoing the interface, which I repeat, can be patched); there's no real reason to go and buy a three year old operating system.
So where should I go if looking for laptops sans os,... A few years ago I could buy Ahtec laptops (Spanish) without any OS. They still work fine. www.ahtec.es
I've looked so far at dell.com and lenovo.com. Both have many laptops available for immediate purchase running Windows 7.
At Dell, under Small Business they start around $350. Under Home/Consumer they are a bit more expensive.
At Lenovo, ThinkPad E-Series under small business all seem to list Windows 7.
So basically the whole question is bogus and merely an excuse to start up another Windows 8 bash-fest.
Either that or Sagan's Pie thinks "everywhere" is logically equivalent to "Best Buy" and "Walmart".
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
I just bought a laptop from this site. It comes without windows and your choice of linux distros. https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ I still haven't received it yet since I just bought it a couple days ago, but I will review it when I get it.
Go do a Google search for "windows 7 laptops" and pick a site from the 200 million results. Or, you could choose eBay / Amazon / NewEgg / Walmart, all of which still sell new Windows 7 laptops.
Otherwise, the unfortunate answer is that you'll have to buy a Windows 8 laptop and put Windows 7 on it. That means you'll have to purchase a license for Windows 7 (OEM licenses do not include downgrade rights), but on the up side, you may be able to get a refund for the bundled Windows 8 license if you remove it from the computer before using it. Just google "oem windows refund process" for more info.
gosgog:
You're going to college? I must assume that you are NOT permanently stupid. Then contact New Egg or some other outfit that sells IT hardware, ask them to install a Linux or Ubuntu O/S system and sell it (the Laptop) to you. The system shouldn't cost you more than a couple of hours download time, probably nothing. There's one linux O/S where you can select and download the Aps that you want without a lot of extra stuff. Bodhi, or Mint, go to an internet cafe & check 'em out first, then decide. If you want to install the O/S yourself, pull the UTUBE Video up on Google and watch how to do it!
Believe me, you'll save a ton of money, and if your feeling generous you can always send Linux or Ubuntu a donation. Cause everything but the machine is FREE.
System76 sells laptops that come preloaded with Ubuntu. From there, either use it or get windows 7 from Amazon or somewhere similar
Seriously. Macs are pricey, but are pretty solid hardware. At that point you can:
* run MacOS X
* run VirtualBox or Parallels, then inside that run your choise of windows operating systems.
(Recently I have hada to do this in order to run MS Access. So I've got Snow Leopard -> Virtual Box -> Windows XP -> Access.
Actually runs better than when I had a single purpose win xp box 8 years ago to do the same thing.
Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.