Verge2 GPLed

Mandoric writes "Verge2, a fairly popular 'Create-your-own-RPG' system, was GPLed today. Basically, this system allows one to create a console/Japanese style RPG with routines for graphics, audio, etc. already in place. Source is available here"

Comments

Cool

[Devil_Dog]

Hopefully this will spawn some RPGs for Linux now that there is a GPL'd engine out their for people to use. It sure can't hurt :)

Re:Cool

[Foogle]

This thing isn't even meant for Linux. Seriously, I have nothing against people GPL'ing old software (better than just trashing it, I guess), but if you're going to write a new RPG you'd really be better off starting from itch on this one. Of course, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

-----------

"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

Re:Cool

[psichan]

Has the good sir considered trying to port the code? I may be wrong, but it shouldn't be too hard, considering. A little svgalib hacking-in, and such.. of course, its just MY opinion, but I could be wrong. Anyway.

GPL will change the world

[johndoh]

Licencing this type or any type of software is good for the community....

-DoH

Oh no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the GPL again. One more notch in Stallman's keyboard.

Re:Oh no!

[Khalnath]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I don't understand that comment.
I take it the comment was intended to be negative in nature, and I don't understand that either. IMHO, only commercial software should be closed-source. If you're not going to sell it, GPL it!

Re:Oh no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Most free software projects (FreeBSD, Apache, PHP, KDE, XFree, Perl) DON'T use (just) the GPL license.

This actually causes a fair amount of conflict. For instance GPL'd code can't be taken from any old GPLed program and included in one of the above projects as it would dilute the license down to the (less free) level of the GPL.

In a sense the GPL is a highly incompatible license and publishing your work under it means it will be much harder for others to use that work. (It couldn't be included in any of the above projects).

So simply put yes you are ignorant, it's not that simple and people are quite sensitive about the whole deal.

Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[cbraescu]

"Well, here it is guys. The V2 source under the GPL. It's the old DJGPP engine that may not even work. Deal with it. "

I don't like this; GPL (or any other way to Open-Source) should not be used to hide a real throw-away.

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Rupert]

I actually like this trend of freeing old software. While it would undoubtedly make us all feel better if all software was free, there are good reasons to keep a program closed-source. If the environment changes (and it does) then the advantages of closed-source can evaporate, leaving it in the best interests of everyone to open-source it. If it works, or contains worthwhile code, people will use it. If not, it will die. Either way, it's all upside.

I think one of the best points in this model is that you no longer have to support clients that are ridiculously back-level. Publish the source code and have them fix it themselves or pay some random hacker to do so.

ESR wrote an interesting essay on this subject.

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder why they bothered to release this at all if they are just going to release a working version in the near future.

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[SYS2066]

Still is better than not getting the code at all, right? Theese people deserve the same credit as John Carmac gets when releasing Quake under the GPL...

One area where I'd really like to see more things GPL'd is among the device drivers. Having the source for those, I believe, would probably speed up hardware compability for Linux/*BSD significantly, even if it is windows drivers.

// Simon

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Anonymous Coward]

"ESR wrote an interesting essay on this subject."

Interesting? Sure. Accurate? Hardly.

It strikes me that the "Cathedral" document is liek a new bible for OSS zealots - demonstrably untrue, based on completley shaky assumptions but so compelling to a certain type of person they will treat it as fact and revelation in the face of these obvious untruths.

In this religeon, ESR is sort of a high priest of "voddoo" programming.

On the other hand, if you kiss his ass enough he can make you rich... so kiss away.

&sign($AC[0]);

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't want to GPL device drivers. It would mean that BSD couldn't use them. It would be write-and-rewrite; so much for code reuse.

On the other hand, it would also mean that noble Linus wouldn't have to fight with bickering Richard anymore about how device drivers aren't contaminated by the kernel's GPL.

I guess it's a mixed blessing after all.

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as everyone throws fits and insists that Open Source enables innovation and such, it does not. This is a perfect example of it. Other great examples are where id is releasing Quake source code years after it came out and guess what? No GPL game has ever gotten even close to that quality. The only thing providing innovation in a GPL environment is years-old technology created by great programmers who understand that they're worth something.

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is against the GPL. Please moderate it down.

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[HiThere]

There may be several disadvantages, but it could prove an excellent place to hunt for "prior art" it you want to challenge one of the numerous silly patents that are increasingly clogging the noosphere. (Hope that's the correct word! The area where things are known.)

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was released so the authors could just get the source out and get the CVS tree setup, and the rest of things on the ground. It's easier to get things going and not having to deal with tech questions, than to get things going and having to deal with tech questions :)

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Ratoslov Lenev]

Why not post a article addressing the fallacies of 'Cathedral'? Or are you just some idiot troll with no balls?

Re:Is GPL the new name for throw-away?

[Rupert]

Look who slipped through the moderation net.

Since you obviously feel there are fallacies in The Cathedral and the Bazaar, why don't you post the article? I was actually referring to The Magic Cauldron, which you'd have known had you followed the link.

Not that there aren't flaws in The Cathedral and the Bazaar, I just didn't think they were relevant to this discussion.

Old (crappy) version of Verge2

[Devil_Dog]

From the article: Well, here it is guys. The V2 source under the GPL. It's the old DJGPP engine that may not even work. Deal with it. This is the beginning of more updates to come that will bring with them the newer V2 source trees (which actually work! *gasp*), so that you can watch as progress is being made, or possibly even chip in and help out.

Hopefully those future updates come along quickly since it doesn't sound like this version is very usable. Also, it doesn't sound like they're all too supporting of Linux development/porting, but since it's GPL we shouldn't have any problems porting it over:

Also, lore made an archive for anyone who wants to port to Linux (though I wouldn't know why you'd want to port this old crap)

It might be better to wait for future updates depending on how quickly they come out though considering how bad/old this codebase is, still wouldn't hurt to check it out though.

Re:Old (crappy) version of Verge2

[Anonymous Coward]

Porting to linux should be easy if they release something that compiles with DJGPP. As I understand it, they use the Allegro library for graphics and that has been ported to linux already.

Linux Port

[worth]

There is an archive for anyone that wants to help with a linux port at http://www.verge-rpg.com/files/official/v2-2.r1.ta r.gz . It would be cool to see a bunch of RPGs for linux.

Who Cares?

[The Future Sound of]

If code is released to the world and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Re:Who Cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good question being as 99.9999% of Open Source projects are never devloped by anyone but the person who invented them. Linux is a fluke.

Re:Who Cares?

[PiMan]

No, Linux is just the 0.0001%, not a fluke. Remember, one in a million chances happen 9 times out of 10.

Verge C compiler generates C or IA32 assembler?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is strange they don't merely provide libraries, but instead their own subset-C compiler. What code does this compiler generate?

Re:Verge C compiler generates C or IA32 assembler?

[mattmattwa]

I believe it outputs it's own data file in a similar manner as the QuakeC compiler did for the original Quake.

Re:Verge C compiler generates C or IA32 assembler?

[Anonymous Coward]

It handles Verge's internal scripting language.. generally, it's an icky handcoded thing, and IMHO should be replaced with a compiler generated with lexx/yacc (or bison/flex if you prefer)

Re:Verge C compiler generates C or IA32 assembler?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anybody use lex anymore? Isn't it always flex now?

Uh

[Anonymous Coward]

excuse me, but what the hell is a "japanese style" rpg? Going by what Verge makes, it would seem to be any rpg with tile based graphics

Re:Uh

[Mandoric]

Think Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest.
As opposed to Bard's Tale or Wizardry or something
It's hard to describe, but there's 'feel' differences. ^_^

Re:Uh

[Anonymous Coward]

No there arent. Crave's RPGs arent that much different from imported rpgs (except that Crave sucks) and they sure aren't japanese

Re:Uh

[Mandoric]

You can have American-made Japanese-style RPGs, and Japanese-made American-style RPGs. It basically comes down to whether the developer values their d20 or their anime cels more. ^_~

Plus, at least one of the workers at Crave had worked for Square in the past, so that was probably a bit of an influence...

How to free up *other* old games?

[Robotech_Master]

As I mentioned in an "Ask Slashdot" I submitted the other day but was never posted, there are other old games that a lot of people would love to see open-sourced. For example, Darklands, the 1992 Microprose/SSI RPG of medieval Germany. It was originally supposed to be part of a larger set of games, but Microprose never got around to doing the sequels. It was buggy at first, but in many respects was far ahead of its time; people are still playing it today.

But even though the game itself is no longer sold, and even shows up on abandonware sites for people to download, its source is still locked away in Microprose's vaults, doing no conceivable good to anyone. Writing to support@microprose.com hasn't done any good, though people have been trying for eight years.

Any thoughts?

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell I still own Darklands (Haven't played it much though). It was definately a cool concept - a historical medieval world where the only fantasy is that local folklore beasts and creatures actually exist! No mages -> alchemists, Pray to the saints for powers! I think that it's character generation sequence was VERY nice and innovative. The only problems I found were that the game was a bit TOO text-based. Eventually all the cities looked(and read) the same. That and the game WAS buggy - I was quite far until it hosed itself and I lost all of my game data! I agree about the source for old games...heck I REALLY want the source to Maxis' old game Robosport so I can make a clone for Linux!

Respectfully,
Kevin Christie
kwchri@wm.edu

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[HerbieStone]

Why do you want to wait until Cmdrtaco resigns? The code which mentains this site runs under GPL, so why don't you do it yourself?!?

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[Anonymous Coward]

The code which mentains this site runs under GPL, so why don't you do it yourself?!?

Doesn't matter whether it's GPL'd. HE IS NOT DISTRIBUTING IT. That means he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it. Also, he's the author, so isn't bound by the GPL.

Putting the GPL on CGI scripts is a useless joke.

Next idea?

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[Acy James Stapp]

One of the reasons that the source may not have been released is that the source may no longer exist. Hard to believe, but computer game companies are pretty unorganized when it comes to keeping source around, especially source from 1992.

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have recently sent emails to many game companies and politelity asked them if they could release the source code to my old favorite games from 1989+ that they no longer are selling. Most of my emails didn't even get a reply and those who replied didn't write anything sensible. I think that this is a thing we should deal with. We should start a campaign so that we might possibly get the source code to some of the old classics like Ultima Underworld, Darklands and so on.

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please click the link called "code" in the upper left hand corner of the page.

Re:How to free up *other* old games?

[Anonymous Coward]

those are old codes. People probable should contribute to the squarshdot -I know it's the wrong spell. Anyway Bruce Paren is using it.

Guess Not!

[Leonel]

If you actually read further on the page, you would see in the previous day post:

I'm open-sourcing the V2 codebase either today or tomorrow. What I'm going to do first however, is release the old DJGPP trees from the public work-in-progress release of V2 (or maybe it was a version or so after that, I forget). It will have a few things missing, such as the CD audio code, and perhaps the FLI code, I'm not sure yet--this is all due to the fact that the source will be released under the GPL license.

That means what was released today is an old version, and the new one - "(which actually work! *gasp*)," - will come in a few days. Well, I guess we should wait and see.

In a similar topic, Jet3D has recently released its source (its the 2.0 version of the open-source Genesis 3D engine. A CVS tree is being set up, and a linux port of this breathtaking engine would be great!

Re:Guess Not!

[Ded Bob]

a linux port of this breathtaking engine would be great!

Even better would be a UNIX port, so everyone could use it.

Re:Guess Not!

[Anonymous Coward]

How about before you get all hot and bothered about forcing someone else to port an engine for you, sit down and write some decent 3D drivers for a few 3D cards? You can't profit from the blood of others until you shed your own.

Re:Guess Not!

[Leonel]

Woah, calm down. Where did I force anyone to port anything?? I am a game programmer, and I am working with this great engine right now. I just thought I could let you know about this great free engine so others could benefit from it as much as I did, and quite possibly contribute to it.

what id like to see....

[smash]

...is an open source flight sim engine.

unfortunately the sort of maths involved for the 3d and aircraft modelling is a bit beyond me..

i just think that linux, being the geek OS it is, would have a lot of flight sim players out there :)

smash

Re:what id like to see....

[mwittenstein]

Ah, but there is one. www.flightgear.org is an open source flight sim project that has been in development for some time now. I don't know what the latest status is, but if it's ever finished it should be quite something (as opposed to quite nothing, which of course nobody wants).

Verge

[They_Call_Me_Spanky]

I've been following Verge since it's inception and that kid has done wonderful work and has a HUGE following of game programming wannabe's. Verge1-2 is a great piece of software and I was wondering when he was going to GPL it.

This is good news!

Verge2

[Anonymous Coward]

I was one of the users of Verge1 and early verge 2. Let me just say that this is the last step of a slowly dying engine. Verge2 was months late with it's first release, and currently (one year later) still hasnt released some of the stuff that was promised way back when. It is fast becoming obsolete and they are fully aware of it. This is very unfortunate, considering how much of a cult following it had way back late last century (natch :) Oh well, saw the post and just had to drop my 2 cents, sorry.

So?

[Anonymous Coward]

?

Hey now

[Anonymous Coward]

Get your head out of your ass! What you are suggesting is nothing more than plain ol' fashioned COMMUNISM! Communism is bad for everyone and when I see you Linux/Opensource ZEALOTS crying about opensource it makes me SICK. Son, now just because you're not willing to pay $20,000 for AutoCAD doesn't mean it should be OPEN SOURCE or PIRATED by you LOSERS. I don't care even if it is TRENDY to PIRATE music, software, and DVDs! It's still COMMUNISM/LINUX ZEALOTRY. Get with the program... the Microsoft program. Go to the store and buy Windows98SE right now and quit being a fucking COMMIE!!!

How is this an RPG?

[Tom Christiansen]

Is this an RPG is the sense of a `rôle-playing game', that is, a shared experience with coöperative story-telling drawing upon the skills and imagination of the players to pretend to be something they're not? Is this a mere video `game' masquerading as an RPG--you know, just a pseudo-random `roll-playing game' involving rolls of the dice rather than a `rôle-playing game' involving play-acting using alternate personæ?

This is probably revealing of my complete naïveté in these matters, but so be it. It's a real question, and I'd like to know the answer. I honestly don't know which kind of RPG (roll or rôle) it is, and would like to.

I believe I can attribute much of my early interest in computing to gaming experiences during my tender years. I was employee number nineteen or so working for the notorious Gary Gygax back in Lake Geneva at TSR Hobbies during junior and senior high school. I hated the tedious mechanics of die rolls, although delighted in inventing new formulæ for various gaming systems. I wanted some kind of mathematical basis for all the endless systems (combat, magic, etc), but didn't want to think about it once it got running.

That way everyone could really get into their assumed rôles. Group story-telling was always what RPGs were really about, and where they were at their best. It didn't matter whether you were playing Dungeons and Dragons, Boot Hill, Empire of the Petal Throne, Gamma World, Metamorphosis Alpha, In the Labyrinth, Rune Quest, Chivalry and Sorcery, Space Opera, or any of the other classic RPGs. It was the childlike wonder of dynamically invented worlds that made these games truly excellent. It's like the `make believe' games children have always played, and which adults sometimes play as well.

I was also wondering whether someone might have a regular tarball of this stuff that actually comes with files that aren't SCREAMING AT YOU, Makefiles that actually work, source code that isn't polluted with spurious carriage returns all over it, READMEs that bother describe what the thing is for or how to build it? A Configure script and and patches that let it compile under standard C would be nice, too.

I guess I'm spoiled by begin used to:

$ tar zxf foopack-1.00.tar.gz
$ cd foopack-1.00
$ sh configure
$ make all test && sudo make install

I've always wondered why programs that get autoconfed don't come with a makefile that knows to automatically run configure the first time if it hasn't been run before. That way you can "just type make".

(PS: I am fully aware that my spelling in this posting has the air of Wardour Street about it. I was trying to exaggerate the visual distinction between rolls and rôles, so decided to go with the flow. :-)

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's this? No ranting about the inherent evils of the GPL in an article with GPL in the title? This is impossible.

What have you done with the real Tom Christiansen? :-)

Re:How is this an RPG?

[marlowe23]

Hmm, screaming tarballs, doesn't play like Metamorphosis Alpha... sounds like you got ripped off. Why don't you ask for your money back?

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like asking whether the so-called RPG was really about playing roles was a decent question. And if you can't build something or get a description of what it's about, it's perfectly reasonable to ask a question about it.

So, what crawled up your ass and died?

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think that RPG means acting something out. It's about rolling dice, or other fantasy games. Pokemon and Magic the Gathering are both RPGs in today's world. I'm afraid the world has gone on without you, Tom.

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think that RPG means acting something out. It's about rolling dice, or other fantasy games. Pokemon and Magic the Gathering are both RPGs in today's world. I'm afraid the world has gone on without you, Tom.

I think you just don't understand what role-playing is. If you're just playing cards instead of acting something out, that is NOT role-playing! Don't pretend that ROLLing dice is the essentail part of an RPG either. As Tom indicated, that's the wrong kind of "roll".

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

TROLL?! *HOW* is anything in that article a troll!? Haven't you ever read the moderator guidelines?

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy asking for his money back was a troll. Please moderate him down.

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

This flamebait used evil and GPL in the same sentence. Please moderate it down.

Re:How is this an RPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

This posting used icky eurofag words. Please moderate it down.

Re:How is this an RPG?

[otis wildflower]

Pokemon and Magic the Gathering are both RPGs in today's world.

And THAT STATEMENT has really killed my good millennium mood.. I really hate what MtG, Pokemon, and all those other annoying CCGs have done to true gaming (AD&D, Shadowrun, Vampire to pick a few of my faves from a hat)..

Old gaming pals tell me to check out online versions (mud-style mostly) but it just isn't the same.. How many of you actually drew your MUD characters, or painted pewter models of them? (Did I just show a fanatic bit here? ;)

I guess it's like a thing I used to have in my life that I can only look back on, like a good friend from college who doesn't have email...
Your Working Boy,

Re:How is this an RPG?

[willhelm]

On Role/Roll:
I poked around for games created using the Verge engine that might be role-playing, but didn't see anything. Mostly, I just saw FF and Zelda-type games.

I then poked around the code and dev docs and I think it's possible to create a role-playing game with some modicum of role-playing involved. And I think that it's possible--but it'd take a lot of effort. Even as such, I don't think we'll ever going to see a one-player computer game that will ever reach the levels that gaming around a kitchen table until the wee hours of tomorrow afternoon whilst snacking on leftover pizza, nilla wafers, and A&W Root Beer. MUDs and online gaming communities sometimes come close though.

On presentation kinds of things (README file, install/config scripts...):
I'm glad they GPL'd whatever they did actually GPL because it's neat to see people making the leap of faith to GPL the product of their toil and sweat. Though I kind of think that folks would look at other GPL'd software for guidance to make some adjustments to their distrobution before GPL'ing their software.

/will

This kind of thing has existed for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

There's already a GPLd project that's not thrown-away, very much like Verge, and still under development. It's called MegaZeux (MZX for short, megazeux on SourceForge), and it doesn't get hyped because, like V2, the codebase sucked. So it got released, but it's getting rewritten (and will remain free). Check out mWorld for some basic info, or SourceForge for development stuff.

Re:This kind of thing has existed for a while

[Doctor Wonky]

True, while MegaZeux is a bit more campy than Verge, it has a wider range. There have been RPGs, Platform Games, Puzzle Games, Adventure Games, etc... for MZX.

MegaZeux started out as a shareware game taking after Epic Megagames ZZT. It is still ASCII-based, yet allows you to edit the characters & the color tiles. It has also benefited greatly from being open sourced, as you can imagine, from being an old EMS-based DOS game.

It has been a lot of fun to work on development (mainly, new features that will be implemented once the new codebase comes out), almost as much fun as making games for it.

Dr w.

The Trolling Police

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to troll at least do it with a bit of imagination and subtlety.

This was just so blatant and obvious it hurt.

Try harder.

DarkLands.net

[Anonymous Coward]

THe link you gave for darklands appears to be dead. I am interested in checking out this cool game. Any other good fan site links? If you want to see a good example of game fans taking matters into their own hands, check out what these Star Control 2 fans are doing: http://starcontrol.gamestats.com/timewarp/

Final Fantasy VII Slashdot Edition

[VAXGeek]

It's only a matter of time now before there's a Final Fantasy where hemos subverts the world with his nacho-cheese like energy source and 4 kernel hackers from a small villiage rise up to contest him.

Re:Final Fantasy VII Slashdot Edition

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just offtopic karma whoring designed to kiss hemos's ass. Please moderate it down.

Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk about a long winded and off topic post. This had nothing to do with Verge being GPLed, it was just a long pissed off rant by a guy who needs to get a life

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who hates Tom!

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk about a long winded and off topic post.

I can't see how Tom's post was `off-topic'. He asked what the program really was. He asked how to to build it. Those are completely on-topic.

I think we should be *happy* he wasn't talking about the GPL. Why do you want another flamewar?

As for your perception of that brief posting's being long-winded, did you know that attention-deficit disorder can be effectively treated these days? I'd look into it if I were you.

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy bashing Tom was a flamer. Please moderate him down.

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

This is offtopic. Please moderate it down. The point of the thread is to fight about the GPL. Let's not destroy that chance for divisive battles.

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

This is flamebait. It's trying to make people fight about the GPL. Please moderate it down.

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the guy bashing Tom is a saint. Moderate him up.

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy bashing Tom has a right to his opinion, and he may have had a point. Bashing somebody is also offtopic flaimbait, and, by this point, nothing better can be said about this entire thread of basher-bashers and basher-basher-bashers. Let this be an end to it.

Re:Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you don't find the subject interesting, doesn't mean its crap. You weren't forced to read this topic, so stop complaining. Even better why not post something that you think other people would like to read.

Re:Cool == Allegro

[Cebert]

If it was written using Allegro, one wouldn't have to do very much at all in the way of porting, since the Linux port of Allegro is nearly perfect...

Re:Hating our betters

[Anonymous Coward]

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who hates Tom!

"Hate" is a sickness. Just because you have something broken inside you doesn't mean the rest of the world is equally fucked up. Crawl back into your hole, troll, before the sun comes out and burns your ass.

Re:Moderate this up

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. It was an interesting post. It should be moderated up, which I would do if I had moderator privs today.

This anti-tchrist mafia is pretty idiotic. Don't you script kiddies realize that Tom is gone from IRC now? Why don't you come back to #perl where we can toast your ass again. That way you can have somebody else to hate.

Trolls like you suck.

Megazeux also GPLed

[zixyer]

I should take this opportunity to point out that Megazeux, another game creation system, has also been released under the GPL a while ago. Megazeux has quite a large following despite its dated technology. more information --
https://sourceforge.net/project/?form _grp=35
http://www.inquo.net/~myth/mzx/
http://www.usit.com/dbwilli/

Re:Megazeux also GPLed

[NeverMore]

The difference is Megazuex is a piece of crap.

Moderate this down

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care whether it's funny. It's offtopic trolling flamebait. We need robomoderation for this kind of shit--and yes, I don't use the word lightly.

Re:How is this an RPG? it's not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, this is not a rocket propelled grenade generator.

No screenshots?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh! I don't care if they're ASCII graphics, I still want screenshots! The Verge and Megazeux sites seem to be devoid of them.

Re:No screenshots?!

[zixyer]

It's difficult to take screenshots in mzx because it edits the ascii fonts to make its graphics. I don't know of any screen capture programs that can grok this. Fortunately, some screen capture code was added into the new version, so we should start seeing some screenshots on the sites soon.

Re:No screenshots?!

[Doctor Wonky]

mWorld has quite a few screenshots. Click on 'Games' up at the top, and then, on the list, click on the little smileys for a review of the game, many of them have screenshots. (Look for happy smileys, as those are probably the nicer games.) Dr W.

Re:No screenshots?!

[13th seer]

a little perusing on megazeux.net lead to this utility:

screen thief

it can captuer images to gif format

Ten Commandments for Moderation, times two

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you aren't aware of the new Moderation FAQ. Here are its Ten Rules of Negative Moderation:

1. If it's an early post, moderate it down, even if on-topic; early posts are ipso facto redundant.
2. If it's even vaguely against Richard Stallman, moderate it down. Our Fearless Leader must never be challenged!
3. If it questions using the GPL in all possible cases, moderate it down, especially if the posting is well written. We can't let people see arguments.
4. If it's against Linux, moderate it down to help ensure world domination.
5. If it's in favor of BSD over Linux, moderate it down twice. Those geriatric cobol programmers writing BSD deserve only contempt.
6. If it says anything positive about Bill Gates Microsoft, moderate it down. We must never give credit to them, because that would be giving in. Never surrender.
7. If it's by Tom Christiansen, moderate it down. His opinions are not conformant with approved FSF Doctrine, and his words are too big for us to read. This guy just has no chance at being a sitcom writer.
8. If it's in favor of any form whatsoever of software licensing that doesn't involve the GPL, moderate it down.
9. If it's about someone making money through software, moderate it down. The capitalists pigs must die! We must free the software!
10. If it asks uncomfortable questions, moderate it down. It's obviously just trying to make us feel bad. Our self-esteem doesn't deserve these painful interrogations.

Nothing else matters. This isn't an issue of quality of writing. It's not about encouraging discussion. It's not about responsible moderation. It's about pushing political agendas and personal vendettas. Moderation is now about disagreeing or agreeing with positions. Nothing else matters.

And if you think this isn't true, go track down articles that get zapped and see how many of the Ten Rules above apply.

Here are Ten Rules for Positive Moderation:

1. If it's not an early post, moderate it up (especially if off-topic, like spelling and grammar corrections).
2. If it's supporting Richard Stallman, moderate it up even if it's ranting.
3. If it's supporting the GPL, moderate it up, even if it's calling for wholesale piracy.
4. If it's supporting Linux, moderate it up even if Linux is irrelevant here.
5. If it's in favor of Linux over BSD, moderate it up twice. That'll teach those pseudo-free bastards to think twice about posting!
6. If it says anything negative about Microsoft, moderate it up, no matter how childish and irrelevant.
7. If it's bashing Tom Christiansen, moderate it up. That'll teach that asshole not to kick us off of irc.
8. If it's in against any non-GPL software licensing, moderate it up, even when cogently presented.
9. If it's against people making money through software, moderate it up. Software should be free, and we'll teach them a lesson.
10. If it reaffirms and summarizes what we already know and agrees with the majority, moderate it up. The less original content, the better. Long quotes help.

But remember: negative moderation is a ten times more important that positive moderation. It's also a hundred times more important to down-score someone with a real login than it is an anonymous coward. Cowards may flame with impunity, but never let a user with a login say anything you disagree with.

Welcome to the Brave New Slashdot.

Re:Ten Commandments for Moderation, times two

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderate this up. It's funny.

Re:Ten Commandments for Moderation, times two

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderate this down. It was too long. I forgot why I was reading.

Re:Ten Commandments for Moderation, times two

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderate this up. It was insightful in observing that the previous article should be moderated down.

HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous Coward]

HAHAHAHAH

I apologize for all the bad things i've said about you moderators. Giving this doofus a Troll moderation was perfect, though i think a new moderation tag might be needed (something like "Fucking moronic" or "Long winded dumbass" and of course "Karma WH0RE")

Thanks moderators, you really made my day

Re:HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, script kiddie. Metamoderation will kill the moderation abuse.

Re:HAHAHAHA

[otis wildflower]

Yes, but who metametamoderates the metamoderators?

Your Working Boy,

Re:HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous Coward]

I apologize for all the bad things i've said about you moderators. Giving this doofus a Troll moderation was perfect, though i think a new moderation tag might be needed (something like "Fucking moronic" or "Long winded dumbass" and of course "Karma WH0RE")

What troll rating? I see no such rating. And if I did, I'd bitch, because the message was not a troll unless you hate tchrist. It was pretty interesting--which, I note, is what it got marked.

Re:Cool == Allegro

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Linux advocacy. Please moderate it up.

Re:naked and petrified millennial haiku!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is offtopic trolling flamebait. Please moderate it down. Again. And again.

Omnislashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course the most powerful weapon will be the Omnislashdot.

Re:Cool == Allegro

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree with this, it is pretty good. It would be perfect if it was a little bit faster and if it supported X11 fullscreen.

Ultima...

[Alorelith]

Personally, I think Ultima 7 is the best CRPG available in terms of story, gameplay, graphics (they still aren't BAD) etc... The only problem was the lame memory issue. I've been wanting to play similar games for such a long time, except it seems that no other company, for ONCE, bothered to copy such a great game. I know there are some map editors availbable for the game and there is Exult, which allows you to move around the Ultima 7 world in Linux. I am wondering if anyone at /. knows of further information on the hoped Ultima 7 (Not Serpent Isle) source code release or of any other development on Ultima-like games.

Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but who metametamoderates the metamoderators?

Audio quid ueteres olim moneatis amici, `Pone seram, cohibe.'
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Cauta est et ab illis incipit uxor!

VIDE IVVENALIS

Re:Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, I give up. What am I supposed to say to babelfish to get it to make sense out of that!?

Re:Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey idiot, learn some Latin, all of us who went to real schools did. We can spell correctly, and use correct grammar. Basically it's about the wives in Rome. They are considered bad, this is where we get the phrase 'Who watches the watchers.' (If there are any errors, grammatical, spelling or otherwise, I would be oblidged to be corrected.)

Re:Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[otis wildflower]

We can spell correctly, and use correct grammar.

Good lord, I'm annoyed by the lack of proper spelling and grammatical structure these days (though I myself tend to overparenthesize and fly off on tangents: must be the effect of hypertext on human discourse ;)..

Man, I've forgotten so much Latin.. (And what a promising student I was, before I discovered USENET, Netrek and mast^H^H^H^H (not necessarily in order ;) )..

"Romanus Eunt Domus? The Roman they go to the house???"

Your Working Boy,

There's the Quake Engine

[Anonymous Coward]

If Ikka Keranen (sp?) could make AirQuake in QuakeC, then I think someone could do a flight-sim kind of deal.

AirQuake is no flight sim, but it's gameplay was way different from the original Quake, and I loved it. I'm not a programmer or a fan of flight-sims, but a stable 3d engine couldn't be a bad thing for programming a flight sim.

np: Pain of Salvation - Entropia

I'll tell you what hurts...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some dick decided to moderate the post you replied to as *INSIGHTFUL*.

More Opensource RPGs

[Inoshiro]

Legendes is an interesting thing I recently stumbled on. The author says, "Legendes is a complicated story, which can be summarized as follows: stagnation, restart from scratch, one month's development, repeat ad lib. Currently, Legendes is in the ``stagnation'' phase. Duration of this phase is unknown."

It looks like an older version of Ultima. The first version is written in Pascal, but the sequel is written in C. The ftp directory does show some signs of life. They also have something that looks like a client. After trying Ultima Online (and being annoyed by its amazing slowness on 128mb/266Mhz/Cable Modem setup, as well as the Win32 requirements), I think it'd be interesting if we had an OpenSource RPG that worked similar to Ultima, but wthout all the slowness :-)
---

Moderation categories seriously suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll: intended to piss people off, cause flames
Flamebait: intended to piss people off, cause flames

Maybe it's not perfectly appropriate, but a guy who posts a whine about how the game isn't a real sit-around-the-table RPG and how it doesn't compile perfectly (or doesn't compile under Linux, which it shouldn't) can't be aiming at a well-reasoned discussion. A whine is a troll because it does nothing but provoke angry responses.

Re:Moderation categories seriously suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Premise: It's legitimate to post that a source package doesn't build right on Linux. Do you disagree?

As for the RPG thing, seems like some people still play real role-playing games. Is there some reason that asking whether this is one of them should be deemed `wrong'?

it means "bad linear RPG"

[Anonymous Coward]

Japanese-style RPGs are more or less synonymous with "highly linear" RPGs. The player doesn't control the story. Typically, you move through a section of a map killing monsters, watch a brief cinematic sequence, then move to the next section.

ARGH the bite of Uni$y$

[Anonymous Coward]

If you check the archive it contains GIF code... I guess there will be a round 2 RSN..

Role-playing!=story-telling

[Anonymous Coward]

Story-telling is story-centric. Role-playing is character-centric. The two work against each other.

The intended purpose of this library is to enable japanese-style linear story-telling crap, as opposed to real games. See Costikyan for a definition of what constitutes a game.

RPG makers aren't new...

[Anonymous Coward]

ASCII Corp have made a lot of these shooter, simulation, etc. maker titles on consoles for years. But a free one is nonetheless new. I hope they made a free fighting game maker soon, which is a genre seriously lacking on PC, especially on Linux.

Not necessarily..

[Anonymous Coward]

The engine is flexible enough to create highly non-linear rpg's. Many Vergers claim to make non-linear games, and I'm sure a few of them will be released soon, but right now most released games are linear. Don't blame this to Verge, but to the Vergers:-*