LinuxOne At It Again?

Anonymous Coward writes "Check out the recent LinuxOne news release. LinuxOne reports a $500,000 software order from Power Source. Its interesting how Power Source seems to be only a recursive add link without any substance. I couldn't quite figure out, beyond self proclamation, how LinuxOne is one of the fastest growing software distributors in the world. Go figure." At least the LinuxOne Web site is a little more fleshed-out than it was when we first saw it. And they're hiring, too. Check it out!

Comments

Sound the alarms!!!

[Mr Donkey]

What needs to be done is that somehow the "general public" should be informed of what a fraud LinuxOne is.

There is much evidence:
- the SEC S-1 xerox of Redhat's
- they have no real product
- their web site runs a stock copy of RedHat, and probably doesn't contain any of the patches - i.e. can be rooted relatively easily
- it's imaginary customer "Power Source"

Sometype of mainstream discussion; that is out of ./; a column in Wired? a column in a paper?

Whatever can possibly be done, so that the good name of all that is Linux is not brought down by these fly-by-night, wannabe IPO, frauds.

We've got to get the word out!

[Bruce Perens]

In a recent press release, LinuxOne announced a $500,000 software order from "Power Source" of El Cerrito, California.

What LinuxOne didn't mention is that Power Source runs out of a tiny storefront, and their "distributors in 130 countries", an exaggeration, run flea market tables. One of these distributors is usually seen at the Livermore Ham Radio Flea Market here in California, where he occupies one of the $10 tables.

While Power Source appears to be a legitimate business, it is extremely unlikely that they could have $500,000 cash to pay to LinuxOne. Rather, they probably made a deal to sell $500,000 worth of product, when and if they can, without pre-paying for much of it at all. But you would not have realized that from the LinuxOne press release.

There's a pattern here. LinuxOne persists in posing as a company with bright prospects in Linux, but look at what they have done: They are completely unknown in the Linux community, their officers are newcomers to Linux, and nobody known in the Linux community is on their technical staff (if they really have one). The founder of LinuxOne was previously behind NetUSA, which is trading around 60 cents a share, one tenth of its value a year ago. LinuxOne copied Red Hat's S-1 form (the form submitted when making a public stock offering) almost word-for-word, claiming that they have the prospects of Red Hat, a company that entered Linux 5 years before LinuxOne and employs hundreds of people, including some of the best programmers in the Linux world. LinuxOne's products so far appear to be mock-ups: their Linux CD is Red Hat's CD with the words Red Hat removed and LinuxOne filled in. Their "Linux on a disk" product is a Linux CD that someone installed on a hard disk, probably in a single day, and then they copied the disk. A claimed Linux system that runs on top of Windows called LinuxLite appears to be misrepresented in its functionality if it exists at all. LinuxOne staff have not written any significant Linux software to date that I can find, the only software they appear to have written is a program that displays a clock on the X window system.

And this is the company that has registered the stock symbol LINX and is going to take $23 Million from investors who don't know better, any day now. I think it's a really bad investment. But I'm prejudiced: I happen to have a Linux company too. Fortunately, you can hear the same message from other respectable people in the Linux world. For example, read this article in The Register by Rick Moen, a respected, long-time participant in the Linux community.

I've been a Unix operating system kernel programmer since 1981, and have worked on Linux since 1994. Another employee of my company has been working on Linux since 1993 when he started one of the best-respected Linux distributions. We're hiring other people with similar backgrounds. We have paid our dues and we have a proven performance record in the Linux world. There are a number of new companies similar to ours in the bacgrounds of their founders and their technical staff. These companies are not going public until they have real products, and when they do go public, they have some reasonable prospects for success. In contrast, I don't feel that LinuxOne has any prospects, I think they've been very sleazy in their press and promotion, and while it is remotely possible that anyone could build a real Linux software company with that $23M, it makes sense to invest in people with more skill and background than LinuxOne.

I can't save those investors from having their money go down the drain. Some people tell me that I shouldn't feel sorry for people who make poorly-researched investments, but I feel horrible about this. It's going to make Linux look bad and a lot of innocent people who don't have someone experienced in Linux to warn them are going to be hurt.

Somebody has to speak out. Please tell your friends. Tell everyone you know.

Bruce Perens

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Bruce Perens]

Part of the problem is that some people are being meek about this because:

1. They want to be bending-over-backwards fair in giving them the benefit of the doubt and seeing if they'll be for real or not once they have the money.
2. They are afraid that they'll get sued.
3. They simply refuse to say anything negative about a Linux business.

Certainly you should get every outlet to research this issue and publish something about it. But don't stop when some of them refuse - in the end, it is up to the community to get this word out.

Thanks

Bruce

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Felinoid]

Yes Media outlets are careful about such advice considering they are not technical experts or experts on the stock market.
It would be wiser to feed this situation to the financal community. They of all people would know how to sniff out a fraud and for LinuxOne the sent is pritty strong.
I doupt anyone experenced in the stock market would dare recomend a company that IPOs so soon after start up.
They should also learn that the Linux/Open Source community is not pleased with this company.

After that let the experts in that community handle it.. they'll know how to make it know.. sometimes a larg media blast isn't a good idea anyway..
Then the word can get out.. even if in a trunicated form.. such as a warning about IPOs soon after startup or companys with no real product or companys who have a bad community standing..
The finantal experts won't spindoctor.. they want to help the avrage investor and they have been dealing with finantal unsavy investors much longer than we have been dealling with tech unsavy computer users. They'll know how to deal with it.

The people who are investing in LinuxOne are not knowladgeable. They see the words "Linux" and "IPO" and they buy. Linux is a hot property and in some ways this scam is a testement to that fact.
But a big LinuxOne scandal could also set us back... [or it may push us forword]
Most investors do more research and would know LinuxOne has IPOed to soon to be of any real value.

I'm guessing if a scandle dose break lose and we have done our "thing" people will see that the Linux community is also a force to recon with.
That we do work together to any goal we belive needs to be reached.
Resistence is fulte.. Do not mess with the Penguin :)

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[aqua]

Speaking of which, yesterday (Tuesday), LinuxOne issued a press release to the effect that they'd opened an office in Taiwan, to:

-- promote sales of all LinuxOne products in Taiwan
-- translate/localize LinuxOne products into Japanese
-- circulate a web-based newsletter for the Taiwan open-source community
-- actively promote the Linux software as a replacement for Window and MacIntosh
-- develop special new software products for the Asian markets

Interpret that how you will. The release goes on to specify that the office holds a manager, a salesdroid, an accountant and three software engineers, with more salesdroids to follow "in the next 10 days."

It'd be useful to find someone with exposure to the Asian tech industry and Linux scene to illustrate what's occurred on that side of the lake.

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[jsm2]

And this is the company that has registered the stock symbol LINX

No it ain't. According to the S-1, it's applied to NASD to be quoted on the Nasdaq with stock ticker LINX. Stock tickers aren't like domain names, and stock quotes aren't like websites.

For a start, even volatile markets like NASDAQ have standards. The NASD has no interest in having grotty pump-n-dump companies quoted on it. For this reason, it withholds the privilege of a quote from companies who don't go through a hell of a lot of hoops.

Then, assuming it gets a quote, NASD has to authorise the ticker. If someone else deserves LINX more, there is an appeals process. It's unusual for someone to be thrown off a ticker if they have first rights, but the market reserves the rights. Since, IIRC, "Linux" is a [tm] owned by Linus, he may have some ability to intercede (try asking the NASD for ticker COKE and see how far you get).

In general, I think that LinuxOne will have difficulty shifting 3,000,000 shares to the public without the help of a broker or investment bank, and may find difficulty in getting one to help. But on the other hand IANAAS (I am not an American stockbroker), so I may be wrong.

I'd gently inform the NASD that all may not be rosy in the garden if you want to -- but it may be taken better coming from a disinterested party than a competitor. If that fails (and this is a last resort which I would not recommend in any normal circs), you might try talking to some of the short sellers like Anthony Elgindy, who might work miracles -- if the stock price is too low, Nasdaq won't touch it because it doesn't like penny stocks. But I must point out that I have never done business with a short-seller (a fortiori not with Mr. Elgindy) and cannot vouch for them.

jsm

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Jon Peterson]

Bruce wrote: "They are completely unknown in the Linux community, their officers are newcomers to Linux, and nobody known in the Linux community is on their technical staff (if they really have one)."

While I broadly agree with you that LinuxOne appear to be a fraud, and a sleezly one at that, I can't let this comment get away.

You seem to me to be suggesting that companies wishing to base a business on Linux should somehow serve an apprenticeship in 'the community' where they will recieve the benevolent blessing of the 'known figures' of the community, and they can then trade acceptably.

This is not a bazaar. This is a situation remarkably similar to the late medieval trade guilds in northern Europe, which did an excellent job of serving their own interests and stifling competition, all in the name of maintaining standards.

To hell with the ESRs, ACs, and the other figures of our supposed worship and gratitude. If I one day have a great idea for a new kind of folding chair, do I need to grovel before the established figures of the chair industry? Do I need to play the game of being a good little manufacturer that doesn't push their luck? Do I need to employ some 'well known' chair designers to establish my credibility in the market place?

The hell I do. I get my capital together, I go out there, and I try to prove my products and ideas in the marketplace.

Likewise with Linux. If one day I say "That's it!!" "I've just figured out a create way to do package management!", do I then need to prove my worthiness by hanging around on some RPM mailing list and demonstrating on my CV that I've contributed to previous package management projects?

No, I do not. I write my code, and I go out there and say fair and square "This is a better way of doing it. You've never heared of me, you don't know I am, I don't employ any 'known figures' but I've got a new product that frankly works a hell of alot better than the old ones. Please use it".

Employ known figures indeed. Sounds like some of the famous traders in the old bazaar don't want too many newcomers setting up stalls unless they pay their dues.

Pah (with respect, but Pah, nonetheless)

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Roblimo]

"Employ known figures indeed. Sounds like some of the famous traders in the old bazaar don't want too many newcomers setting up stalls unless they pay their dues."

What's wrong with that? In the "pure" Open Source business model, for-profit companies are living on the backs of the community. They need to give a little back in order to have any cred.

Even on the journalistic side, everybody at Slashdot (including me) did a lot of FREE writing and reporting before making any money at it, and Andover.net quietly ran the freecode.com site long before most of the other Open Source code indexes and repositories came along.

As far as employing "known figures," I doubt that Bruce is thinking "known" in the "heavily quoted" sense. I can think of many excellent developers and project organizers who get little or no public attention but are respected by kernel maintainers and other free software developers. I'm sure Bruce would consider these unsung ones to be valid hires for a company that wanted to make a splash in the Linux or Open Source world.

If you came up with a better package management system, you would be a "known" developer as soon as three other people tried it and liked it, whether they found out about your product through an RPM mailing list or through a company you set up to distribute your work. The point is that you would have *done something* instead of purely riding on others' backs.

And VA Linux? They actually *do* somthing. They have Linux-based hardware products you can order and have delivered, and they "give back" to the community in many ways both visible and invisible without directly asking for anything in return.

It's a fine edge, isn't it?

But then, I'm an old-fashioned person who believes it's better to earn your money by working hard than by selling chaff as wheat, so maybe I'm not the best person to listen to on this subject; my attitude is obviously not in tune with current financial and stock market thinking.

- Robin

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Our Man In Redmond]

Here's a thought: It's just barely possible that LinuxOne may someday make money. In an age of $7.5M+ domian names, how much would some other company pay to get LinuxOne's most valuable asset -- the ticker symbol LINX?
--

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Syberghost]

Those three software engineers no doubt busily employed building a Perl script to
s/Red Hat/LinuxOne/g throughout Red Hat's Japanese edition.

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Shorty]

Getting the word out won't do any good. Anyone with $.02 of brain will know better than to invest in them.

What _WILL_ do good is to get the SEC onto them. This last press release, while it may not be wholly untrue, is worded in such a way as to make it appear that they have a $500,000 check from a real customer, instead of (what might be) a deal to sell $500,000 of their software. And then there's their carbon-copied Red Hat S1.

I imagine that there are some red flags on their SEC file anyway, but it would be good if we could make sure they're aware of this. LinuxOne going public will be a black eye for the Linux and Open Source communities in the mind of the business world.

Is there anyone here who knows more about SEC policy in regards to pre-IPO publicity and regulations about a company's S1 filing? Anyone know a way to get the SEC's attention?

Robbie

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[um... Lucas]

Nasdaq owns the stock symbols and just issues them to companies as they're needed. COKE is already used by, suprise, Coca-Cola.... There's no reason why Linux One shouldn't be allowed to be LINX, if VA Linux can be LNUX. It's a complete double standard to say that Linux One can't have a symbol that's close to Linux, when VA linux be LNUX as opposed to, say VALX, which appears to be available.

You can't just selectively apply standards based on whether you like a company or not... but regardless, no one can really intercede, unless a company confronts Nasdaq and wants that ticker and has a strong case for having it, say Linx, Inc, or something like that....

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Silver A]

Jon Peterson wrote:

"Employ known figures indeed. Sounds like some of the famous traders in the old bazaar don't want too many newcomers setting up stalls unless they pay their dues."

RobLimo wrote:

What's wrong with that? In the "pure" Open Source business model, for-profit companies are living on the backs of the community. They need to give a little back in order to have any cred.

Bruce Perens goes overboard by implying that a bunch of nobodies can't be up to any good.

In this particular case, it's pretty obvious that LinuxOne is a scam, and it is generally true that folks who come from nowhere deserve extra scrutiny. However, just because someone has no (known) history in the community doesn't mean that he doesn't belong. LinuxOne would smell just as bad if it had a well-known Unix kernel hacker on staff. Contrariwise, if a bunch of nobodies said "We've translated all the on-line documentation into Chinese, and we're going to re-sell a Chinese RedHat distro", with a real business plan and some real funding (not a copy of the RedHat plan and some orders from controlled shell companies), I'd see nothing wrong with it.

Don't confuse the issue of LinuxOne being a fraud with the issue of LinuxOne coming out of nowhere. They're related, but not congruent.

Re:We've got to get the word out!

[Bruce Perens]

I am not associated with RHAT or LNUX. What made you think I was?

Thanks

Bruce

Power Source web site

[Bruce Perens]

The web site for Power Source is http://www.poso.com/ .

Re:Power Source web site

[aqua]

Dig their meta tags:

<META NAME="KEYWORDS" CONTENT="CD-ROM, CDROM, CD, CD-R, VideoCD, Software, Discs, Drinks, Gold, Nintendo, Spice, Play Station, Sega, Games, Breasts, Tits,Red Alert, shopping, Office, Access, Visual Basic, Sex, Girls, Nude, Cheats, Cheat Codes, Food, Ships, Boats, Discs"> <META NAME="AUTHOR" CONTENT="Captain John"> <META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="ALL">

dammit Rob, fix the &special symbols...

Re:Power Source web site

[jeremy f]

I think what's REALLY funny is that both POS-O, and Super Telecom (the "supposed" free CD company without a real webpage) are housed in the same building and use the same phone number. But, it's not JUST a phone number: if you lok at POS-O's webpage you'll see that number - (510)-527-6908, but on Supertelecom, you'll see that you can fax them at, not suprisingly - (510)-527-6908. In fact, all of the banner's that they show on the webpage, to four different companies, has the exact same phone #.

So my question is what happens for incoming calls? Is there someone who picks up the phone and if they hear the carrier of a fax transmission, quickly hang up the phone, turn the fax machine on, and hope the caller will call back? =)

Sounds like a .5 bit operation to me. Or, maybe if we're lucky, it's a forefront for a mob organization... Hehe, getting organized crime to back a supposed OSS company, what could be better? =)

I ran across their coolstuff4free.com, and I got this quote:

"Super Telecom Inc is a world leader for internet access and web hosting services."

Which figures, because I think they're all in their own little world over there ;)

Re:Power Source web site

[jeremy f]

The hilarity continues!

I called the phone number -- it's 8:55 am EST here, so it's just about 6 am over there. Someone answered the phone, and sounded VERY sleepy.

Ya think this is being run out of a bedroom? =)

Re:Power Source web site

[Jburkholder]

You can do this though with hardware costing about US$500

Re:Power Source web site

[Bruce Perens]

Robin the limo driver. Maybe I shouldn't refer to him as a "poster".

Short LINX...

[lordsutch]

Here's a way to make a cheap buck off the clueless Wall Street types who haven't gotten the message yet (but will as soon as an analyst comes out with a fifty cent price target):

On the day of the IPO, when its price rises to ridiculous levels, short sell it. About a week later, once everyone else's figured out how stupid this company is, buy to cover. Invest the proceeds in SGI, Cobalt, VA Linux, or Red Hat (or if you feel really suicidal, CORL... all the price volatility of an IPO in an established company ;-)); better yet, donate it to SPI or the FSF.

Repeat when the next LINX comes down the pike.

Re:Short LINX...

[evilquaker]

On the day of the IPO, when its price rises to ridiculous levels, short sell it.

Nice idea, but you can't short it until 30 days after its IPO. If (by some miracle) LinuxOne hasn't crashed and burned by then, then it is not being valued on fundamentals (heh, as if RHAT was...), and these types of stocks make lousy short candidates.

Are you going to be in El Cerrito?

[Bruce Perens]

The storefront says "PS Multimedia" and is approximately across the street from the Burger King on San Pablo and a block south, if my memory is correct. Check them out yourself. Report back to us. 10032 San Pablo.

Bruce

well what can be expected

[jlb]

From what I understand from Bruce's post about the company, LinuxOne is just the first poor-quality knockoff. I imagine there's going to be many more where that came from.

Really this could hurt the linux community quite a lot. If a place like this gets some news coverage then screws something up (like what's inevitably going to happen), then that will reflect badly on all of linux.

Does anyone see the open licenses eventually creating problems for the adoption of Linux in this way? Anyone can make their own crap distribution, slap a name on it, make a few press releases and suddenly, to a portion of people out there, they represent linux.

Re:well what can be expected

[sterno]

There are scame artists and scheisters in just about every business in the world. Now, as Linux becomes more main stream, we are going to see our fair share of them popping up. I mean if anybody can download a distribution and start selling it, why wouldn't somebody try what LinuxOne appears to be trying.

In the end what this will do is further reinforce the value of brand within the Linux community. Red Hat, SUSE, VA Linux, Debian, etc, etc. These will be names that will be tied to reputations about products that have a certain level of quality. A few people will get burned by these scam artists, and it will just strengthen the position of those who deliver a real and valuable product or service.

I'd be curious to see an interview with some folks at LinuxOne on Slashdot. I'd be interested to hear them attempt to defend themselves.

---

Re:well what can be expected

[Black Parrot]

I think the courts awarded the "Linux" trademark to Linus after the last big scandal. Is he in a position to forbid these lusers to use it?

And if so, would that be a desirable move on his part?

--
It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?

Not good...

[Listerine]

Got this off their website.. apparently some of the other CDs they sale for $7.95 won't help Linux's reputation...

Anarchist's Cookbook
ATM Machines
Beating Lie Detectors (Polygraphs)
Beginner's Guide to Hacking
Big Book of Mischief
Booby Traps
Bypassing Phone Billing Systems
Cable TV Piracy
Cloning Cellular Phones
Computer Underground Digest (Volumes 1-6)
Credit Card Scams
Drugs & Recipes
Electronics (Modification Files)
Explosives from Common Household Ingredients
Fake IDs
Free Airline Travel
FREEBAGE (Art of Bernsteining)
Fire Works
Get RICH QUICK Scams
Getting Unlisted Phone Numbers
Hacking UNIX Systems
Hacking VAX Systems
Interrogation Tactics
Jackpotting Change Machines
Jolly Roger's Cookbook
Knock-out Drops
Know your Legal Rights
Legal Tips that can save your ASS
Listening Devices
Lock Picking
LSD Recipes
Money Making Scams
M-80's
New Identities
Occult
Payphones (Free Calls, Jackpotting)
Radar Jamming Techniques
Revenge Tactics
Sabotage on Automobiles
Secret Radio Frequency Lists
Smoke Bombs
Spells & Potions
Telephone Box Plans
Telephone Technology Tutorials
UFOs
Underground BBSs
VooDoo
Witchcraft
ZOMBIE Potions
SO MUCH MORE!!!

The entire contents of this CD is for educational
purposes only. The Authors, Publishers and Distri-
butors neither approve nor condone the actual use
of this information.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

--------------------
I dont like the smell of this.

Re:Not good...

[Jburkholder]

Geez, all you need to make that list complete:

1) Successful dating techniques with Ruhipnol
2) Proper preparaion and deployment of large fertilizer bombs at federal buildings
3) Print yor own counterfeit money for fun and profit
4) How to overthrow small island nations

Gawd.

Re:Hostile TakeOver and run em into the ground

[Bruce Perens]

This isn't the way the market works. It would be the underwriter who would get stuck, but before that happened trading would be halted on the stock. There would also be an investigation afterward and collusion to tank a stock is no doubt a violation of securities law.

No, I think get the word out is the right way to do it. I would prefer to see other people making their own investigations, and posting what they have found out firsthand, so that it's not just me. Actually, I was reluctant to say as much as I did today - I wrote that posting this evening for Technocrat.net, because I simply could in good conscience let the situation go on any longer without my saying something forceful about it. But I would feel more comfortable if someone who isn't doing his own IPO, and thus has less appearance of prejudice, would take the "point" on this issue.

Thanks

Bruce

Educate and Complain!

[mdb31]

I have to agree that this is going way too far: there is a thin line between IPO optimism and fraud, but it seems quite clear that LinuxOne does not have the best interests of investors in mind. (Nevermind the Linux community: whatever will happen here will have a bad reflection on it...)

But anyway, what can you do? Linking to one of the more recent in The Register from your web site or in your .sig is probably a good idea.

If you're a US citizen, also complain to the SEC, the government organization overseeing everything related to stock trading. Their web page is here, and makes it quite clear that what LinuxOne is doing is potentially illegal:

For example, it is unlawful in certain situations for someone to sell securities to you while withholding important information that could affect your investment decision, such as selling you stock in a company but not disclosing to you that the business has no existing operations or selling a stock to you for ten dollars per share when the seller knows the stock is worthless.

I'd say they'd at least take a good look at LinuxOne if enough people complain...

Unable to verify Auditor/Law Firm/Transfer Agent

[Dark Coder]

All three key player of the IPO: Issuer's Law Firm, Auditor, Transfer Agent are low-profile first time player. www.ipo.com

I have not been successful in getting the address of the Auditor (using WWW tenacious and privacy busting databases).

Until these information are substantiated, I would steer clear of their upcoming Jan 31st IPO.

Not to mention a hotmail account

[Etam]

Those pozo at www.poso.com don't even have their own mail server but use a hotmail account instead. The form aren't encrypted and served from etailprice.com running off a Microsoft web server and is currently in "under construction" stage. The www.poso.com itself is served by a ISP named web.provide.net which is also under construction.

Looks like some newbies trying to build a vapour company on the web to scam money. This "Power Source" definitely do not have the $500,000 in cash.

GPL side effects?

[jetpack]

While I agree that this LinuxOne nonesense sounds like a complete scam, and that their IPO could potentially hurt alot of unwise and unknowledgable investors, it seems to bring up an interesting side effect of the GPL.

For ages, the OSS community has touted the benifits (nay, the necessity) of Free Software. The reasons are many and varied, but seem to boil down to enhancing quality of software and the computing experience. However, this LinuxOne foolishness seems to point out a fact that no-one seems to have pondered before:

If you don't have control over your software, while others can't ruin your software, they can, without legal penalty, completely destroy your software's reputation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an OSS fan as much as the next geek, but it appears OSS may solve technical problems at the expense of social dynamics.

Re:GPL side effects?

[Chris Johnson]

Actually, no.

Free Software only exists within a social context. Expecting a formal punishment for people like this belies the fact that already the social penalty is death :) both in Linux circles and, interestingly, in stock market circles, LinuxOne == mud.

There isn't a need for a formal authority stating that LinuxOne is bad, because there wasn't a formal authority stating Linux is good either- indeed, the most likely candidate for a formal authority is the likes of Mindcraft and Microsoft, and it's pretty obvious that their credibility is zilch too, particularly when you consider the subject and their motives for assuming authority on it and making announcements.

Instead, LinuxOne has already been singled out for contempt and dismissal (bordering on vengeance!) by two entirely separate communities. Any uninformed person inquiring, later, why it was a disaster, could get two entirely distinct authoritative answers why it was a big scam (OSS: it was Mandrake with the serial numbers filed off, they wouldn't give source, etc.. and The Street: didn't you notice they were incorporated in Nevada? etc)

LinuxOne watching is nothing more than bloodsport or sick humor and doesn't really _matter_ in any sense. Be assured that if any investors get suckered, Wall Street itself will think (along with OSS people) that they were fools. The prospect of Wall Street going "Oh my God, Linux is a scam!" is zilch: they know, better than we could ever know, how to spot con artist entrepreneurs, and the Street has already spotted LinuxOne for what it is (besides which, anyone trying to find out on the net would rapidly hit tons of Slashdot hysteria and outrage on the subject- and again, Wall Street knows what that sort of thing means.)

Go where investors go!

[Zach Baker]

The Yahoo! Finance message boards are a good start (just search for LINX or LinuxOne to see where people are talking about it). An even better place is the message boards at E*TRADE or your stockbroker of choice. Stock investors are by nature a chatty bunch, and if they get tipped off in the right places, the information will soon make the word on the Street.

Re:Go where investors go!

[EricWright]

Here is a link to the yahoo search I did to find messages posted about the LinuxOne IPO. It seems like a good many people out there know/claim that this is a farce, but posts from people with actual facts to back up these claims are needed. If you have posted information here, please post similar messages here and other relevant sites!

Eric

Fly by night...

[Barbarian]

The Powersource website's order form doesn't even have an encrypted order page... what kind of fly-by-night operation is this?

Also, no mention of Linux One in their CD list.

Re:Fly by night...

[KarMann]

And get this--if you follow that 'Free CD!' link from the first page, the page about the free CD's has, amongst its VERY sparse content, three links: One to the IP number used by the rest of the site, an e-mail address using joymail.com this time, and a 'Our Company' link to a domain name 'super-telecom.com' that NSI says doesn't exist yet. Now, I may not have the greatest faith in NSI, and sometimes mixups happen, like with Microsoft's password.com oversight around XMas, but this doesn't strike me as one of those times.
And, for that matter, the page title is "DiDa HTML Editor - www.faico.net/cdida/"--doesn't look like anyone put much thought or work into this one before they rushed it out so they could pretend to be a real company that was independently interested in LinuxOne's offerings!

Good... bad... I'm the one with the gun.

OT: Interface Design

[orcrist]

With the frequency of such occurences, maybe it would be a good idea for Rob to put the Submit and Preview buttons on opposite sides of the Plain Old Text/etc. button, instead of right next to each other?

Chris

The LinuxOne world, according to Chas.

[Chas]

Here's what I see.

1. Shady history of the founder, and a past venture that now exists at 1/10th the initial valuation.
2. A "linux company" that was, until very recently, completely unheard of within the Linux community. One with NO known factors from that community.
3. A "linux company" with no real product. Incorporated in Nevada so that they were not subject to the full disclosure (Like "Uhh. We have no real product") required by other states.
4. A "linux company" who's supposedly forthcoming product is basically RedHat (or Mandrake) with all the names and serial numbers filed off.
5. A "linux company" whose open source soloution is "get it from Mandrake", in clear violation of existing licensing.
6. A "linux company" that photocopies another company's IPO, save for underwriter support. The IPO service they're going with is extremely low profile and extremely green in the market.
7. A share price set, not by estimating value on an existing product (since one doesn't exist), but on an arbitrary "this is what we thing the stock is worth" guesstimate from the "people" who run the "company".
8. A "half million dollar contract" from a little storefront that wishes it was Walnut Creek. The announcement of which is almost certainly a violation of the SEC-imposed quiet period.
9. A storefront with a Hotmail account as it's business contact. Hosted by a provider whose own site is barely more than an "under construction" sign.
10. A storefront whose main customers appear to be small computer shows and flea markets.

Now, for some reason, this inspires ZERO confidence in me (not sure if there's such a thing as a negative level of confidence, so I won't go that far).

In fact. The only thing it inspires is haiku.

Big Ripoff I See
Their business profile screams SCAM!!!
No dough shall I waste


Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!

Re:The LinuxOne world, according to Chas.

[PigleT]

You're absolutely right, especially about the flea market thing. Taking a list of the 'software titles' available, it looks like nothing more than the crap-ware you'd expect at a local fair.

Not to mention, http://www.poso.com/gui-page.htm is no way to tune a guitar. You don't want a piano, the timbre's all wrong. You certainly *don't* want to start with open 6th string, as any inaccuracy there sucks. You don't want to do each string separately either - the best is harmonics off 5th and 7th frets, starting with 6th and working up. Misinformation. Grrr!

Re:The LinuxOne world, according to Chas.

[Gleef]

Chas wrote:

8. A "half million dollar contract" from a little storefront that wishes it was Walnut Creek. The announcement of which is almost certainly a violation of the SEC-imposed quiet period.

Hey, if they are in violation of the quiet period, maybe we can get the SEC and/or NASDAQ to punish them. Maybe stop the IPO or at least take their ticker symbol away.

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Hmm..

[Weezul]

I'm pretty shure you are correct, but I don't even see how the above posters idea would work? As you sell something to tank it don't you loose a lot of money? Sales taking time to go through and all.

I do have one slightly-related question---the glass of water is partially ontopic instead of mostly offtopic. :)

Background: I believe enviromental orginisations have occasionally gotten into trouble for tring to trash a co.'s stock price, but I do not know wether it was just that the co. could sued them or the SEC came after them (can the SEC come after you if your just saing things and not buying or selling?).. and there are people currently trieng to do this to etoys (and I hope they drive them into the ground).

Question: Can we get arround the problems those enviromental orginisations with trashing a company by not being orginized? If it's just a lot of people talking about how cool it would be if people did X en-mass and people do X en-mass (where X is only illegal to do en-mass).. is there really collusion or whatever going on?

I realize this is going to be very specific to the situation, but it seems like our legal system may need leaders and orginization to have a conspiracy? The Etoys thing is a good example.. as people just keep posting to the investment chat rooms about how everyone is boycotting and hacking them.. then the stock may contuinue to decline.. but no one is orginizing it.

Jeff

Re:what goes around comes around

[sterno]

It isn't dependent on the bottom line of any company. Welcome to the elegance of the GPL. If any of the Linux organizations start taking a direction that you don't want, you have the power to ignore them and go your own way.

Actually, what I suspect is going to happen with Linux is a sort of fragmentation. Most of the big players right now are interested in developing Linux to be more valuable to businesses. This means that development will likely slow down and focus on stability rather than innovation. Those people out there who came into their own as "linux hackers" will wear the hat of "linux developer" now, trying to look more reputable and trying to get some compensation for their years of hard work.

As the main Linux distributions become more mainstream and corporatized, a new underground version of Linux will begin to evolve. As the old Linux bloats and slow under the weight of legacy compatibility, this new hacker off shoot will come into its own, just like the current Linux has. And so on and so on...

Or maybe all the hackers will just start playing with Hurd :).

---Steve

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Re:VA Linux S-1 filing greated with scepticism

[lordsutch]

Here are the prospectuses; judge for yourself:

• RHAT
• LNUX
• LINX

Bear in mind that all prospectuses will be similar in form; however, they should not (normally) be word-for-word copies.

Difference between code and business

[tilly]

I honestly believe that Bruce agrees with you absolutely when it comes to participating in the bazaar of ideas. You don't get a reputation by begging, you get a reputation by contributing something that others recognize as good.

That said, if you want to run a business based on selling open source (based) products, you had better be adding some value to your version of the product. That takes technical skill. For an outside investor the simplest way to judge that skill is to look at past contributions of your employees. If you have none, and no real product, that is a danger sign. Either your employees should have a history or you should have a demonstrated product. Both would be nice.

So go ahead and prove yourself in the software bazaar. And go ahead and try to prove yourself in the free market bazaar as well. But if someone in the free market bazaar is trying to sell you open source software doesn't meet the BS test for what makes good software development, then don't be a sucker.

Note that what LinuxOne is doing is allowed. But to fall for it is idiotic. And warning people that it is idiotic is an appropriate thing to do.

Cheers,
Ben

Question about stock offering

[DartX]

Okay, as I understand it, LinuxOne has applied for an IPO with the SEC. Now, do we have the right to write to the SEC with our concerns about this?

If so, does anyone know have an address to write to?

Power Source and Linux

[Adam J. Richter]

I believe that in late 1992 or early 1993, the Power Source store in El Cerrito became the first reseller on the planet to carry a Linux CD when they picked up our "Linux/GNU/X alpha release", which later became Plug-and-Play Linux. I remember visiting PowerSource to test the distribution on some of their machines. I have not had occasion to visit Power Source since I moved Yggdrasil to Silicon Valley six years ago, but, at least back then, I really appreciated Power Source's focus on people on a budget with their bins of used computer parts and their extensive printed catalog of really cheap computer hardware that they were importing from Taiwan that had not yet made its way into most "white box" PC's in typical computer stores (for example, motherboards with smaller form factors come to mind). If you wanted to get hardware that seemed only to be available in computer flea markets, but there was no flea market in town, Power Source was the place to go. They may not have been Dell or Compaq, but I could see then that PowerSource had a bit more infrastructure than your average independent computer retail store and an interesting angle. Come to think of it, there is still some computer hardware in a back room at Yggdrasil that I remember buying from Julius at Power Source. I don't feel I have enough information yet to comment on Linux One or how substantive their relationship may be with Power Source, but I can say that, based on my experience with Power Source of several years ago, they're good people. Adam J. Richter President Yggdrasil Computing, Inc.

What's up with that disclaimer?

[barzok]

At the bottom of the press release (nelow the contact info) is a disclaimer that I don't see on any of the previous ones. It reads:

Certain information included in this communication (as well as information included in oral statements or other written statements made or to be made by AbsoluteFuture.com) contains statements that are forward-looking. Such as statements relating to the future anticipated direction of the Internet industry, plans for future expansion, various business development activities, planned capital expenditures, future funding resources, anticipated sales growth and potential contracts. These forward statements are subject to a number of known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual operations or results to differ materially from those anticipated. The NASD has not reviewed and does not accept responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this news release.

I's 7:30 AM, and I'm not totally with it. So I ask: what's this mean? The last press release (#14) also has this disclaimer (but I don't see it on any of the previous ones), but in a smaller font and doesn't mention AbsoluteFuture.com. Is this something they're required to append because they're about to attempt an IPO?

LINUX (?!!) Torvalds.....

[OOPChugALug]

I was comparing the prospectuses of Red Hat, and Linux One, and it amazes me that there is no plagiarism rule. One thing I noticed that was quite funny was Linux One's statement, and I quote:

"OUR RELIANCE ON THE SUPPORT OF LINUX TORVALDS AND OTHER PROMINENT LINUX
DEVELOPERS COULD IMPAIR OUR ABILITY TO RELEASE MAJOR PRODUCT UPGRADES AND
ESTABLISH MARKET SHARE."

This company is obviously a complete crock. They can't even copy correctly, and don't re-read their own prospecutus. Also, I noted that their balance sheet is in Actual Dollars, (not thousands as usual)...
Balance Sheet Data:
Cash and cash equivalents 147,336
Property and Equipment, Net 4,984

My home network (2 linux machines and a solaris box) is worth a lot more than 5000$ !! What a joke.

Forget LinuxOne!

[dattaway]

That's right, man, you can see through everything! Up until now, I've had a well paying daytime job doing electrical work and Linux was just my hobby. But now, all this hype is making me consider running my own IPO too. No FUD at the moment, but just the facts:

Announcing LinuxTwo IPO:

We plan to sell twice as much bogus software as LinuxOne.

We use a proven S-1 form, with our name inserted over LinuxOne's.

We hire software programmer icons for free, and just like LinuxOne, to cut costs.

We do not waste gas traveling to those educational conferences, such as the Atlanta Linux Showcase and rub shoulders with the caffeinated programmers that can make keyboards smoke.

And LinuxTwo's web page is served through a dialup connection, which offers the same speed as LinuxOne's. Coincidence?

OK, I'll shut up. But my point is that I use Linux and am offended by a cheap knock off that has apparently nothing to contribute, besides being an apparent 100% fluff machine. I sure don't want bullshit to be worth $23,000,000 dollars. That's a lot of bullshit that's going to come from the sky.

I'd benefit from investments that actually have a chance of helping people who are known to put effort and acheive results. Linuxone is mighty secretive and I don't think they have anything concrete they are hiding.

Sounds a bit like Zooooom to me....

[Randy Rathbun]

I seem to remember this company called Zoooom back in the 1980s that was all the rage on Wall Street. It ended up being a front for some big organized crime scam.

They had big press releases, got written up favorably by everyone. Then they got busted and a few folks went to jail.

What really really really bothers me about this is if this LinuxOne outfit pulls a Zooooom (see - I still can't remember how many o's are in the name!) I have a horrid feeling that it is going to come back to haunt all of Linux - not just the investors that get screwed.

"IPO Hardball" (webcast) slams LinuxOne

[johnhebert]

The LinuxOne (LINX) IPO was discussed Monday, 1/4/00 at 4pm EDT on IPO Hardball, an IPO analysis audio program available on the web. They discuss LinuxOne starting about 28:30 into the webcast till about 32:50. The entire webcast is 01:14:02 (hh:mm:ss) long. Listen to the whole webcast if you want to establish their credibility.

The short of it is that they slam LinuxOne.

Quotes:
"... strictly a play on the stupidity of people buying Linux names ..."

"... if I were in that industry, I would really be unhappy with them (LinuxOne)for that, for coming public when they are, as it would really sour people on the future of Linux in that industry ..."

"this is a manufactured deal"

The participants in this particular webcast do invite e-mail feedback. I urge you to listen to the archived webcast and send your thoughts to them. This is a good opportunity to share some of our knowledge with a few pundits on Wall Street.

They do have some other interesting analysis about how this affects the longer term future for Linux and other Internet related IPOs such as BUY.COM.

My confidence has been restored

[drix]

Well they've got it all now - a website, a big cheesy red logo, a domain name with the word "open" in it, and a link to Google on their front page. Shucks, guys, they must be a big important Linux company, right? Forget beer, forget pizza, forget toilet paper - I'm saving everything I can and dumping it into LINX. You guys knock them now, but in six months, I'll be laughing all the way to the bank!

;)


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A freudian slip?

[drix]

Hahaha. Okay I want everyone to go to their page and click 'Y2k compliance' at the bottom of the products page. Read the crap they put their if you want, then check out the left hand nav bar. Click on 'Worst Case Scenario' and where do you end up? Thaaaat's right - right back and the LinuxOne homepage, where they hawk their three incantations of RedHat's operating system at you.

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..yeah right

[BradyB]

Linuxone's website does look a lot better than it used to, but the people that placed the $500,000 order has a website that blows big chunks. I know my website isn't much better but come on, if you have your own domain at least accept email at your own domain not from hotmail. That all there is to say about that. Apparently it's a hoax to get money. Hell I can make a website and say that someone is ordering stuff from my business. They'll be found out soon enough

Re:VA Linux S-1 filing greated with scepticism

[sinnergy]

Those were quite a read! Even though they used Nevada to hide most of their chicanery, the many statements of risk outlined in the filing should give the potential investor in LinuxOne a good picture of how shoddy the company really is. i don't think we have much to worry about, ok?

"Fastest Growing" very easy to accomplish

[alhaz]

I don't even know why they use that marketing term. Well, I guess i do. Morons are impressed by it i guess.

Lets say you sell popcicles.

Say in april you sold no popcicles at all. Then in may you sold fifty popcicles, and in june you sold 200 popcicles.

The curve of your growth rate would be pretty impressive, regardless of the fact that your sales are chump change.

So, the *Only* thing you could claim is "Well, we've got over 200 times the sales we did 3 months ago"

Which would indeed make you the fastest growing popcicle vendor.

This is much the same way that Windows NT became the "fastest growing server base" - it's real easy to go from none, to 500k, to 1 million installed. a LOT easier than it is to go from 10 million to 20 million installed. Even if it did take them almost 3 years to reach 1 million installed, including both 3.51 and 4.0.

And if enough people are impressed, you can go file your IPO and live off the stock for the rest of your life.