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Transmeta Webcast Today at Nine PST, Noon EST
Almost everybody in the world wrote in with something like "Transmeta's big Crusoe announcement is today, and it'll be Webcast live on ZDTV starting at 9 a.m. PST." Later, after all the hoopla is over, we'll have a follow-up story on the proceedings as viewed through the eyes of several people who are there.
You can generally get Real Player to work fine through a firewall - set it to "use HTTP only" in Options/Preferences/Transport/RTSP Settings. This way, if you can browse, you can use RealAudio. Hope this helps - cheers
It struck me as odd that Ditzel claims Crusoe is the first processor to make use of a software solution. It may be the first designed to do this from the ground up, but the code morphing idea is not really all that new.
The IBM S/390 has the ability to completely recode the instruction set through microcode. The Alpha has PAL code for VAX compataility. FX!32 provide x86 compatability and "learns" about the program through profiling and reoptimization. Dynamo is HP's answer to FX!32, providing similar functionality to PA-RISC and probably IA32. While none of these are quite exactly like Crusoe, it's the same general idea.
Dynamic recompilation research has been going on for a while. Translating JVM's are only the most recent example. In fact Transmeta hired some big names in this area, which of course makes a lot of sense.
We've been kicking around the idea of self-optimizing computers for a while now. The idea being basically what Crusoe does - examine the software running and adjust accordingly. Now if a couple of inexperienced graduate students can come up with this idea after reading a few papers, it can't be all that revolutionary. :)
What I did like was the fact that someone finally publicly (i.e. through marketing) expressed the value of being able to change the underlying native instruction set. The question of whether the native ISA would be exposed was asked. The answer was no. This is a good thing, as it frees the hardware designers from having to carry around a bunch of compatability cruft. It's almost a necessary thing when your core is native VLIW.
I found it humorous that the bigwigs at Transmeta feel that Linus is the guy you want on a project like this. I figured you'd want someone with expertise in computer architecture and compilers. Yeah, I know it was a throwaway line, but we had a bit of a chuckle. I'm sure Linus us doing a great job. :)
As for the power consumption, it's not all that spectacular when you consider that the StrongARM has been sub-Watt for some time now. I'm not sure how many hardware power tricks were pulled with Crusoe, but the power demo was very entertaining. In any event, no one has been able to run x86 at a Watt, so that is certainly worth some praise. I know that Intel is very, very concerned about power (from a friend I have there). This could make them a bit nervous. I'm interested to see if they have anything that can compete.
But my big question concerns the web pad. First of all, that screen is tiny! No wonder it's low power! Aren't the disk and screen the largest consumers of battery power? It doesn't seem like Transmeta does anything about that. Hopefully the unnammed (and apparently unsigned) OEM's can solve that problem.
Even ignoring the screen/disk problem, why is Linux "the obvious choice" for a ROM-based OS in a web pad? If their main goal is a "fully internet compatable" low-power mobile device, it seems as though they've shot themselves in the foot by relying on an OS that has sub-average plugin support at best. They kept touting how the x86 compatability provides full support for plugins, but the OS question was completely ignored. What's the answer? It doesn't seem fully internet compatible to me.
--
Specs:
Chip 1
700mhz
400k cache
1w power use (yes, *1* watt)
100% x86 compatible
chip 2
400mhz
100k cache
1w power use
Yes this is my real UID. No, it was not bought from EBay.
Do they mean software based in the same way that the 6800 (not 68000) was software based - an onboard ROM (well, RAM in transmetas case) that contains instructions on how to control the hardware part of the chip?
/me breathes low... wow!
No. The software that runs natively on the VLIW core does all the translation, optimization and such.
But oh my, what optimization! They're talking about ass-end compiler optimizations.. very 'big' algorithms that won't fit on silicon.
I wonder if you could buy the code optimizer and have it spit back hyper-optimized x86. You know, the code runs and self-profiles, rewrites and then retranslates to x86.
I also have to wonder how scared Intel and AMD are right now. This puppy runs COLD, FAST and is SMALL and CHEAP to build. Plus it is self-optimizing and 100% x86-compatible. I think Intel et al just lost their mobile market.
I was particularly impressed with the Longrun technology. If those were actual true power consumption graphs...
For those impatient, don't worry! Using the latest bzip2 compression software, I have squashed a time machine into this box: [#]. Just extract, expand and go forward one hour. If you get back, could you post the summary here?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
As art imitates life, life imitates art. We're watching what may very well be the most interestingly designed media campaign of the last few years--certainly the most intentionally mysterious, curiously designed, creatively leaked(certainly the most...effectively subversive use of the US Patent Office) company the computer industry has ever seen.
Twenty minutes, and the gloves come off. They've had years to prepare for this; now we get to see if the computer industry gets its first proper launch.
No more delays. No more promises. The most carefully marketed R&D house in Silicon Valley is about to open their doors--it'll be intriguing to see if they're as skillful on the open scene, under attack by the whispering galleries of competitors.
Hiring Linus was genius--you couldn't buy a more devoted audience.
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
1) 700 megahertz x86-compatible 1 watt dissipation 400+kb cache, targeted at Windows notebooks
2) 400 hegahertz x86-compatible 1 watt dissipation 100kb+ cach, targeted at Linux devices
No actual performance figures, at least yet...
Linus is closet q player..
Dave taylor runs quake on Windows, Linus on Linux..
667 TM 5400...
Makes a joke that if he loses its not the OS...
Linus bites it..
Runs really GOOD!! and FAST!
Linus bites it again.
Dave starts making fun of Linus !!
Bites it again..
Jim Chapman.. Marketing.
Intel/Cyrix..
left cyrix in 1996
2 lines
Emerging internet appliance.
existing mobile market.
mobile pc's focus on sub 4lb machine.
2 spindle hdd, dvd/cdrom
lightweight
1 spindle > 3lb's
fastest growing segment 80/90% dev on type product..
user lightweight/better battery
3lb single spindle == viao short battery life.
highest quality entern...
longest battery life in apps..
4x/5x's less battery usage.
less thermal solution reduces weight and cost.
dvd machines in slim form uses no more then 2hours in dvd mode..
mobile 17% crusoe to improve batter, weight, preformance.. new thinner form factors...
in the hands of the leading mobile makers in mid year..
Mobile inet device.
market neeeds standard..
uses linux as logicla chouce.
low power
x86 compat..
between 500 - 1000 dollars.
no way to get low power before crusoe.
can get linux in rom.
Transmeta:
End product enhancing
end user considerate
industry growth
original r&d
add value throught software
hardware optimized.
two memory controllers.
--- i can stop this since the transcript is in #transmeta..
' god damn this is one wacky game show ' ~ jay in mallrats
this sounds like a great product and all, but I had to laugh at the fact that they had called in Lexicon to name it. Crusoe - what a brilliant associaton! It conjures up the image of a hungry, lonely semi-naked guy wandering around desperate for someone else to talk to, yet scared of them because they're all savages, cowering in fear when he sees evidence of other humans, a reluctant fugitive isolated on an island against his will, talking to himself. Hope they didn't pay Lexicon too much!
...may I suggest irc.slashnet.org, #slashdot. See you there,
Long Battery Life
Low Weight and new Form Factors
Rid of noisy fans
That is exactly right. With all of the faux battles between chip manufacturers and video card makers resulting in 15% clock rate improvements here and there, the irrelevancy of it all is often difficult to see. An 800 MHz Athlon with some nutty next gen 3DFX chipset is completely pointless when what people really want are low power consumption devices that don't fit the clunky desktop model.
There have been a number of people focusing on developing low power CPUs that do what people want, but they've been mostly ignored because web geeks like to hear about overclocked processors that need to be dunked in liquid nitrogen. Crusoe could potentially take over the world, as the big PC chipmakers aren't even in the same universe.
they're putting the Linux OS in ROM for some devices
the form factor of a "vaio-like" device with Crusoe is smaller than previous existing models with comparable compute power; the prototype they show seems to be about 7"x5"x.75", although this is a very rough, rough eyeball.
some talk about using this as a wireless Internet client; per month pricing totally unclear so far
--LP
the high-end chip would sell for $1XX- $32X dollars, while the low-end chip would sell in
the $60ish to mid-hundreds range.
mobile crusoe PCs expected to sell around $1200-2500
wireless internet PCs pricing expected to work somewhat like cellphones, with business models TBD.
--LP
I will probably miss out on this is there a way to get a transcript or a video tape?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
As pointed out by an AC, paste the following into the "Open Location...":
e n.rpm
http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/static/radio/ram/list
Not sure if this is the right stream or not though. But I'm getting audio...
-- Ever notice that fast-burning fuse looks exactly the same as slow-burning fuse? I didn't... (Edgar Montrose)
Ditzel, since his days in academia, has been a champion of the philosophy that compilers and optimizers can make simple, less capable hardware outdo more powerful hardware. We'll see if this is so. (This approach didn't help Sun; it's unclear if it will help Transmeta.)
The biggest potential problem of the architecture, whose emphasis is on power savings, is choppy performance due to unexpected pauses for code translation and/or "shifting gears" from low power to high-performance modes. I don't know enough about the details yet to evaluate the impact of these issues. If I can actually test a machine with the chip in it I'll be able to say more.
--Brett Glass
Turns out that the Crusoe is an embedded processor that will be used in the next line of electric Pez dispensers. And yes, the OS is Linux and you can put your Pez dispensers in a Beowulf cluster, but be careful when you try and add a Pez dispenser full of that new mint flavor Pez because it uses a different networking protocol that throws the others off...
My other
End part I
so far he has showed two vers of Crusoe. One is a 400 MHZ version for handhelds and other smaller mobiles.
there is a 700Mhz version for Notebook size mobiles. All have X86 compatibility and only use 1 Watt of POWER!
more and more this product is becoming focused on the internet.
Crusoe supports:
1. Full PC Architecture
2. Runs all X86 Operating Systems
3. 100% X86 Application Compatiblity
4. Run WEB BROWSER & Plugins
Crusoe uses very little power. 20 miliwatts of power in STANDBY MODE.
Crusoe's low power offers what people want.
Long Battery Life
Low Weight and new Form Factors
Rid of noisy fans
Transmeta hired Marc Allen to help run Transmeta.
Now going over background of Transmeta...
' god damn this is one wacky game show ' ~ jay in mallrats
Here's a short summary of the first 30 minutes for people who couldn't stream it :
:)
:). Looks like a great CPU.
- Crusoe is, from what I understand, an extremely simple and compact RISC processor that supports x86 entirely through an integrated emulator. It is as fast as "traditional" processors, cheap to produce and extremely low power (1 W)
- There are two models right now : a 400mhz/~128kb cache for notebooks, and a 700mhz/~400kb cache for laptops.
- Several APM techniques, like a "deep sleep" mode
that means you'll almost never have to reboot your laptop. Cool
- They both run every x86 operating system -- emulation is complete.
- More processors are forthcoming! Looks like Transmeta is planning to take over the mobile market. "If it has a battery and a web browser, it's going to be built with Crusoe".
Well, it looks like their gamble paid off
Broccolist
So lessee....ZDNET is using Real to broadcast video and audio, and you need the G2 release. Okay...so I get G2 and install it. Still get those nice "you need a plugin" from ZDNET. The Linux version of G2 doesn't have plugin support!
How are we supposed to see/hear it? Anyone know a way of getting the stream without using the plugin?
-- Ever notice that fast-burning fuse looks exactly the same as slow-burning fuse? I didn't... (Edgar Montrose)
For those who can't get the webcast, here's a quick summary of what I've seen sofar: The guy onscreen (don't know him, didn't catch the beginning) keeps promoting a 'software' solution for solving some cpu problems, including the ability to tune itself to the applications, for performance and power reasons. They also keep stressing low-power, and mobile applications Big announcement! The instruction set is entirely in software (his words) -- Yep boys and girls, we can run anyone's instructions -- VL instruction set, 128 bit instructions.... 3/4 functionality of the cpu is in software... more to come...
Yes this is my real UID. No, it was not bought from EBay.
(( Missed part of the webcast due to work ))
End part III, on to tech details
3120
Targeted for internet mobile device.
400Mhz, L1 Cache
Integrated NorthBridge.
5400
Runs Windows/Applications.
700 Mhz, L1 128k, l2 256k
DDR Memory Controller.
Morphs x86 into VLIW instru.
Registers and other X86 Tech is done in software.
Simple fast, low power processor..
code morphin'
Translates x86 pc apps to vliw instructions
Generates x86 to vliw, optimizes, puts in translation cache that is hidden and only the processor knows of it.
only what is used is translated, done on the fly.. keeps programs in translation cache to aid in morphing on the fly.
learn and optimize.
Analyzing the x86 app that is running and optimizes the top code.
register renaming, reordering.
software can optimize like in the compiler
20 X86 Instructions--> 10 vliw instructions
removes useless code to get better preformance and lower power.
benchmarked on a windowing environment.
shows video with fast windowing environment.. translation doesn't get in the way.
P3 Playing DVD
105.5 C
Crusoe Playing DVD with Translation.
48.2 C
Thermal solutions are draining the Mobile battery, and crusoe puts out less heat, less thermal solution == less battery..
LongRun Technology in Code Morphing adjusts power consumption to match needs of the application and uses the lowest power required.
700 Mhz at 1.6V bumps down the MHZ then the V's
Can make the analysis on a frame by frame basis ( example used is playing a DVD ).
700 Mhz uses 1.65V is 100% then the processor goes to 400 Mhz using 1.4 Vs then down to 333Mhz
at 1.2v. Thats only using 25% of the processor.
Introduced new Benchmark Methodolgy:
1. Benchmark on a real APPLICATION
2. Measure battery AFTER the app is run
3. Combine the two for the score.
Demo Crusoe on Linux with Linus.. be back in 30mins.
' god damn this is one wacky game show ' ~ jay in mallrats
Anyone else notice that? Their questions are all along the lines of "this must suck somehow, can you tell us how?"
The Slashdot/Red Herring/Etc type reporters are the only ones asking intelligent questions about the products!
"Hi, I'm a total bitch. I came in late and didn't really listen. This isn't really a new idea, is it? Isn't everyone doing this? Can you explain?"
Sheesh. Someone must be training those people to be clueless and annoying, unless they are actually clueless and annoying and just don't know any better.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I'm not one to make corrections, but with mistakes this fundamental, I feel that I have to or people will have the entirely wrong idea.
:)
The Crusoe processor is not a RISC processor; the presenter was involved in the development of the RISC processor ~1980. The Crusoe family (there are two being presented, with more to be announced) is a small processor that does not have any instructions on the chip itself; it has a software couterpart that translates standard x86 instruction calls to the chip itself. It is completely x86 compatable and the two that were demonstrated operate at 1 watt, making it ideal for mobile computing platforms. To summarize, Transmeta has created a brand new processor family that uses software to handle many of the functionality that is traditionally embedded on the CPU itself.
Oh, and the "marketing geek" is David Ditzel, CEO and president of Transmeta, one of the architects of the Sun SPARC microprocessor and longtime advocate of the RISC architecture; I highly recommend checking out some of the books and articles that he has written over the past 25 or so years working with microprocessors, as they are quite interesting. I will admit that he did abuse the "Internet" line a bit much, especially since he was introducing a bloody processor.
Deosyne