Slashdot Mirror
BSD Quickies
A few bits and pieces on the BSD front in the recent past.
Scott Bartram announced that
JDK 1.1.8 is now
available for NetBSD-current/i386. Over at LinuxWorld, Jonathan
Bresler sent in this e-mail
about BSD related activities. Sun
are releasing
source code for NFS under the SISSL (and boosting funding for a Linux
only effort to implement v4, sigh). Anti Basic wants you to know that
you can now pre-order
FreeBSD 4.0 from the FreeBSD Mall. And
finally, this month's edition of DaemonNews hit the stands a few days
ago, including a particularly interesting article by Greg Lehey, outlining
his work on software
RAID, Vinum.
Seen in a computer store a while ago: "Free BSD $39.95"
Sheepdot: Open Source good, Closed Source baaaaaaad!
Have not heard about any FreeBSD IPO's. Is any company making $$ off it?
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
This isn't meant to be flamebait, or a troll. I really can't work this out, and I'd like to here what people have to say.
Link off deamonnews site ( here if you don't believe me)
Now, I wasn't there, so I may be wrong about this, but, I heard about the way some guy got up during the question time after Linus' keynote and asked him something about how he felt having all these companies moving to Linux, when BSD is a technicically superior operating system.
Linus handled it quite well, saying there is a place for both operating systems, etc, etc..
(From linuxworld.com:
)
How do you get "dispargaged", or "feeling the heat" from that?
Now I use Linux, WinNT, and I've used NetBSD on a sun3, so don't call me an anti BSD bigot or something, but what the hell?
What's with the big chip on (it seems) most BSDers shoulders? Most Linux people know about BSD, but choose not to use it - perhaps from laziness, or whatever. Why do you get so annoyed about it? BSD has its places, and perhaps one day it will replace Linux, or Linux will replace it. Who cares?
And a comment like that, at Linuxworld.. well, if it had been on Slashdot, it would have been moderated out of existance as a Uber-Troll.
It's all free software, right? Please - enough of the stupid anti-Linux comments. Aim them at MS, or Solaris if you want more of a challenge/
Dig these sassy chicks: http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/lw2000/
If you are refering to the Walnut Creek CD's (which you probably are), then I believe that yes, some of the proceeds are donated to FreeBSD, bit they do make a profit out of it.
OTOH, I could sell you FreeBSD for $199.95, and not donate anything to the project, and I'd be nothing wrong. Is this a shock to you or something? You can do the same with Linux, you know - although with Linux you have to make the source code available, but with BSD you don't.
you're right they aren't that attractive... but in a world of horney net geeks...
merging something nerdy and something sexy is just too much for geeks to handle... ie the Network Associates "who's watching your network" set of AD's
He is open about it, his life partner is Eric Allman.
-bugg
1. I imagine most of the primo showroom models turn up their nose at any tech show that isn't COMDEX.
2. Sexism isn't isolated to BSD, and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to single it out. Women aren't prevalent in any field of computer technology: not BSD, not Linux, not hardware, nowhere. You'll find women in all of these fields, but face it -- computers are still a boy's club, and they're going to stay that way for a long time. I can't think of any sort of initiative that attempts to put more women into the industry. I feel sorry for those daemon babes. The second they walked in they must've been overwhelmed by the testosterone-laden geek stink.
We may just as well keep on saying "smart is sexy" until it's true. I'm not holding my breath.
---
---
Remember when "Truth, Justice, & the American Way" wasn't contradictory?
They're not releaseing RPC source. They're releasing the NFS interface/protocol. And really for anyone wanting to write NFS clients and servers the protocol is the hardest bit. We have no trouble at all making the protocol to OS hooks - we've written lots of file systems before. This is not a non-trivial release.
... with eskimo chains i tatto my brain all the way...
So sorry that they didn't attract you. What usually attracts you to women? What can we do to better serve your lesbian desires?
2. *BSD people, what's up with the sexism? Aren't we past that? As one of the token fems who showed up at Linux World, next time I want a daemon dude to pose with! Besides, given *BSD's roots in McKusick's closet, I expect that daemon dudes would appeal to your large gay clientele....
Is/was McKusick closeted? I didn't notice. Seems pretty out to me.
I agree it was sexist, but obviously the target audience was reached. One of those "Daemon Babes" is actually rather technical (and a friend of Mike Smith's) As far as attractive, I dunno, you gotta talk to the little linux geeks that were ogling them the whole time. I wasn;t really paying attention, I was too busy to promoting around the conference. As far as Kirk's sexuality, that personally is not the business of Slashdot, or anyone else, and personally I'm appalled at the fact someone brought it up. While its common knowledge, So The F*** What? Lets keep to the topics at hand. BSD did very well at the conference, I wasn't there for Linus' keynote, as I was at work, but people had a lot of good things to say about our presence. Yes, the booth was an obvious marketing tactic, did it work, yes, did I approve, not totally, not my decision though. I still stand behind all three Open Source BSD projects out there -Pat
-- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve NetBSD - of course it runs NetBSD OpenBSD - Armed to the Gills Three tools in our
"What's up with the Sexism?" followed by gay-bashing. Ooh, that makes alot of sense.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
Stop crying. Linus isn't feeling "the heat" by *bsd. Thats just stupid. Linus/Alan has said a number of positive comments about Freebsd over the years. They do not believe freebsd to be a superior technology, so how else do you expect them to respond?? It is commonly accepted that *bsd is more "mature" in some areas, this comes from having a code base that has been around for so long.
-- You can be a geeklord too
People can run whatever operating systems they need or want to run.
I think the chips on the shoulder you see are either directed at the companies raking in the IPO dough or the "open source/closed mind" zealots.
A quick poll amoung the folks at a recent Unix users group meeting showed that the majority of them ran Sun or some other traditional vendors software on their machines at work.
As far as their at home choice or alternative, it depend on their needs. Some liked Linux for its large number of applications. Others prefered FreeBSD for easy of configuration or OpenBSD for it's security. The general feeling was that Unix is just Unix.
The major concern amoung the Linux users was the quality of the distribution. With ease of install improving, security seem to be a primary concern. It would be nice if the main distro vendors took some clues from OpenBSD. There were also some concerns with the quality of Redhat's latest offerings. One person called it the "IPO" illness, where the quality of a companies product suffers after the IPO.
Uh, none?
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
It seems that the 1.1.8 RC1 JDK news item (BTW, from January 5th ;-)) is not announced here - this page has not been updated for five months. From netbsd.org I can 'only' find FTP links. Is there another 'official' NetBSD JDK page?
A better question. Does anyone know how much code written for Freebsd was inspired by code written for Linux. Answer: Some, but the same is true for Linux.
-- You can be a geeklord too
In the body of the FreeBSD distribution you'll find a great deal of GPL'd code, including the gcc compiler. However, that is GNU code, and not Linux code, per se. You'll also find code for Linux emulation (such as glibc), but that is used only for Linux emulation--FreeBSD applications use the BSD libc, under BSD license.
rwatson
if its geeked chicks that you are looking for check out bsd babes
I wasn't suggesting that the "heat" was from BSD itself (that may or may not be the case, but it's not part of this discussion), I was directly referring to the comment made about Linus at LWE, that he was feeling heat in the form of questions such as the one that was asked, and in his response, he disparaged BSD by implying it was [only] "a few people".
You, like the person who started this thread, need to stay on topic. He was trying to work it out, but by the end of his post it turned into something it shouldn't (but always does.)
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
--
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
For an idea of what a liar Clayton is, his real email addres is nik@freebsd.org. He hides behind his /. address hoping that he will fool people. Can you imagine a legitimate news organization allowing advocates to masquerade as journalists? What would the outcry be if the New York Times started printing Microsoft press releases as "news"? Think about it.
Yes, it's in the tree, as is softupdates, which is also under a restrictive license. However, neither is compiled into the kernel by default, and must be specifically enabled. Presumably it would be in violation of the GPL to distributed a compiled FreeBSD kernel in binary form without also making the entire FreeBSD kernel available under GPL.
Yes, they are. Sun's announcement says:
(emphasis mine).
Now, they have, in fact, released pre-TI-RPC source, and older versions of the TI-RPC source, under a rather unrestrictive license; one of those is used in FreeBSD (and probably the other BSDs; I don't have 4.4-Lite source handy at home to check whether it had that source, but I think it did) for userland ONC RPC support. I don't know whether glibc has its own independent ONC RPC implementation for stuff such as NIS.
I suspect that one reason they're releasing the current version of TI-RPC is that it will presumably include an implementation of GSSAPI authentication and of the Kerberos V5 flavor of same, to use as a sample implementation, given the comments about TI-RPC being "a key component of the security advancements in version 4" (which I think might refer to stronger authentication than AUTH_UNIX a/k/a AUTH_SYS being required).
"Releasing" in what sense? The NFS V2 spec and the NFS V3 spec (along with the ONC RPC spec, the XDR spec, the portmapper/RPCBIND spec, the specs for the DES and Kerberos (V4) authentication mechanisms for ONC RPC, the spec for the GSSAPI authentication mechanism in ONC RPC, and information on using Kerberos V5 as a GSSAPI flavor in ONC RPC) have been publicly available for a while. (The NFS specs also include the specs for the corresponding versions of the mount protocol, although they don't cover the small change Larry McVoy made to create V2 of the mount protocol; Sun screwed up and didn't put the lock manager protocol into the V2 spec, and the V3 spec only lists what changed between earlier versions and the lock manager V4 that goes with NFS V3, so for a while it was only available as part of an expensive X/Open document, but the "XNFS" document with it is now available online.)
for those of you who couldn't make it to linuxworld, there are some pictures of ceren and the other bsd girls here, as well as one of the bsd poster.
-DAVEO
Not really much news in those quickies. Especially the note about the 4.0 code freeze; Slashdot already did a discussion on that. Where's the real news? :(
***
I don't consider him a liar, but I do think his affiliation should be made clearer to help the reader make his own judgment about his motivations and credibility -- as a casual Slashdot reader for years, I never realized that "Nik" was Nik Clayton. Actually, my first thought about this story was how all the FreeBSD news was gathered into one "quickie" story. Obviously, it would be in VA Linux's best interests to see FreeBSD get as little publicity as possible around here.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Few is relative. In a relative universe few can mean anywhere from 3 to anything short of infinity.
:)
Linus used it to suggest that compared to Linux *bsd only had a few people working on it.
Which is fine, compared to the number of years *bsd has been in development compared to linux, I think it is comparable.
I am sorry that *bsd users feel as though it should be *bsd in the lime light.
Apparently they are in the minority view point. But thats just because we are stupid and you are smart right?
-- You can be a geeklord too
>What's with the big chip on (it seems) most BSDers shoulders?
and
>Why do you get so annoyed about it?
Perhaps you should ask the people who came up to the BSD booth and said:
"This is Linuxworld. What are *YOU* doing at *OUR* show?"
Seems they were annoyed. Perhaps you can ask them why they felt slighted?
Or the ones who said:
"Why should I believe you, the great deciever?" (a reference to the use of the Daemon as the symbol.)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Please say stupid things all the time. Doesn't matter if they use macos, windows, linux or even BSD.. Stupid is stupid. :)
-- You can be a geeklord too
>I want a daemon dude to pose with!
1) Ever try to find a GQ OpenSource coder? Most of them sit in front of keyboards all day long, typing and eathing chips/drinking dew.
2) Most show attendees are male. Most males are hetrosexual. Sex sells. (I leave it to you to connect the dots)
3) Think about noteable OpenSource coders. Imagine them in a provocative outfit, holding a pitchfork. Somehow Linus or Maddog in a thong is just not something most people want to see. (the wifes of both parties are excluded)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Does anyone have a MP3 of the Keynote they can put up on the web?
That way, we can all listen to the speech and decide what Linus did (or did not) say?
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
The next time I hear a Linuxite complaining that "there is no real BSD news left" or "this is just advocacy posing as news" whill have the entire printed sourced of kernel 2.3.41 down their throat. I saw a "news" story about kernel 2.3.41 the other day. No earth shattering additions, no hints at a code freeze, nothing. If the BSD 4.0 code freeze is nothing, then should anyone even consider the release of a devel kernel? Or the Linux code freeze? My question is this: Would the same people who don't consider the BSD 4 code freeze news also ignore a Linux 2.4 code freeze? Or an X4.0 code freeze? Or KDE 2.0... I didn't think so.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
A much better question is how much of FreeBSD 4.0 is going to end up in Redhat 7.0.
Get real! Just take a look at Redhat, SuSE, Mandrake, Caldera, Debian, et al, to see how much BSD software is ALREADY THERE. And not only is the software there, it is absolutely essential to the proper running of the GNU/BSD/X/Linux operating system.
Get a clue before you start raggin on BSD for doing what Linux has been doing since day one.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I'll hold my tongue on those arrogant Linux folks...
"So as far as I'm concerned, the Arrogant BSD people can just coordinate and create their own BSD shows and stay the hell out of Linux shows."
Very good idea. Let's keep LinuxWorld for just Linux. Throw out all the freeloaders. Throw out BSD, GNU, X, Gnome, KDE, and Perl, to name just a few. All you would have left would be Torvalds, distros and commercial concerns. Even Slashdot would have to leave.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
>You dont see the Linux community bad mouthing BSD
I don't?
>Linux at a Linux show. Get your own show and leave ours the hell alone!
Ok, so can I say that you consider yourself part of the "linux community"?
Good.
So, if the "Linux Community" is not bad mouthing BSD, then what exactly are you saying when you post:
>Arrogant BSD people
>BSD camp is they seem to have their heads in the sand.
or my favorite:
>small number of arrogant shitheads that give their entire community a bad name.
Yup. Looks like a small, select number of Linux users gives the Linux community a bad name.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
To only things that can run Linux binaries!
No, wait. BSD does that.
I have a better idea, if they can't pay for a booth, they can't be at the show.
No, wait. They allready do that too.
Oh, Oh! If you want a show to only have what YOU want in it, then I guess the only way to do that will be for you to organize it, and decide who can and can't be there.
What's that? You don't have the money to set that up?
What else could be expected from people who get free $25 passes into the show, and go from booth to booth looking for free tee-shirts, whistle rings, and Free CD's with FreeBSD on them. (disk one)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Hey! You forgot how when Be released 4.5, there was a slashdot post. Or that BeOS was to be pre-loaded. Guess that is not news for nerds, stuff that matters either.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
"But thats just because we are stupid and you are smart right?"
Nothing of the sort was either said or implied, and I resent your attempt to put such words in my mouth.
My feelings here aren't the issue, I was only attempting to help the orginal poster "work it out". What you say regarding the relative definition of "few" is dead on, but it may have been taken the wrong way by the person who made the quote, which is what I've been trying to explain to whole time. *I* realize it's relative, he may not, resulting in his quote.
Stop making this about Linux vs BSD.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
Informative? COME ON!
.uk POP Account. His having a complimentary @slashdot.org address (as a Slashdot staff member) shouldn't be at all surprising.
It's no secret that Nik is a FreeBSD committer and Documentation dude, and as such (like all committers) are given an address @freebsd.org. For all you know it's just a virtusertable alias that forwards to some
There's no secret conspiracy here, just someone trying to stir up trouble. Your irresponsible moderation will only make it successful. The worst kind of FUD is when those who spread it don't realize it.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
"You dont see the Linux community bad mouthing BSD...."
Actually, you do. I refer you to the comments on any BSD related article.
It's a sad fact that it goes both ways.
I'll just ignore the rest of your comment, if you don't mind.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
Below is the story to which you're referring. I certainly don't take his mentioning that he was presenting at the conference to be an indication to the reader that he has a FreeBSD affiliation, especially since entities which aren't affiliated with FreeBSD were also presenting -- Nik mentions speakers from the Apache and Samba projects, as well as from Apple. If I'm missing some hint from his story, please show me.
In fact that was not the story to which I was referring. I was referring to the official
/.), born and lives in the
/.), or coordinating
<I>
Nik:The BSD Guy
Nik Clayton, 25 (which probably makes me an old fart on
UK. He's been contributing to FreeBSD since 1994, but has used NetBSD and
OpenBSD in his time (and used to dabble with a little bit of Linux as well). In the
day job he's the director of an IT consultancy, which isn't nearly as high-powered as
it sounds.
When not writing irregular articles for Daemonnews, (and now
the efforts of the FreeBSD Documentation Project, Nik plays badminton (badly)
and does the occasional bit of crewing for local theatre groups (yeah, I know, right
out of TNHD "Portrait of a hacker" section).
</I>
Though I (incorrectly) remembered it as the launch and the announcment being made on the same day, it is there nonetheless.
I hope your questioning doesn't mean you approve of the AC's post implying subterfuge. Surely you can at least acknowledge that it was an attempt at stirring up controversy where there is none.
PS. Hmm...does Extrans seem broken to anyone else?
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
There 4.0 reference was regarding the pre-ordering of 4.0-RELEASE.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
Hey, 4.5 is news. I never said that either BSD 4 or Linux 2.3.41 was NOT news. I just said that if you think BSD 4 is not news, then kernel 2.3.41 doesn't classify as news either. If you don't think BeOS 4.5 is news, fine. But if you think kernel 2.3.41 IS news while BeOS 4.5 and BSD 4.9 is NOT, then you're a hypocrite.
PS. I consider them all news, but kernel 2.3.41 much less so. But it does serve the purpose of keeping people up to date with whats happening with Linux, so I guess its okay.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Actually, wouldn't you really just have Linus and a few other kernel developers. After all, it's not GNU/LinuxWorld, is it?
"I can't understand you "BSD is the one true way" people any more than the "linux everywhere" people."
I never claimed BSD to be the one true way, or even better than linux. As far as I can recall, I've only claimed that linux is *not* the one true way or the *only* free software OS. You're confusing me with someone else.
"I respectfully suggest that you kill yourself now for the good of the genepool?"
I beg your pardon? You are in error if you presume any of my descendents would ever stoop so low as to breed with any of yours.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
But beer wants to be free.