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24-Hour Power Cells for Wearable PCs
Stacey Brewer sent us linkage to a press release from Xybernaut DCH Technology to
work on 24-hour fuel cells for use with their Mobile Assistant: a crazy little wearable that yes, will run Linux. I need a demo unit, darnit!
Go I love technology. Soon my toaster will be running Linux. My phone will be FreeBSD though :)
Sounds interesting, but the fuel (O2,H2) for fuels cells is inherently dangerous (ie, explosive). Plus the by-product, water, needs a place to go. (I guess you could drink it.)
So, I'm not sure fuel cells go well with being directly attached to a person's body (heat issues also). However, fuel cells in cars is another issue entirely.
In a car, the potential for explosion is negligibly equal to gasoline. The by-product of water is much cleaner than anything to date. The heat can be expelled to the environment with making the passengers uncomfortable.
I wonder how Xybernaut & DCH Tech will deal with these issues.
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He lives in a world where those who do not run the client software of the omnipresent meme are unacceptable.
In addition, the oxidant the cells actually use is not mentioned. Although it is assumedly hydrogen, we cannot be sure. The questions of storage and cost rear their ugly-ish heads as well. Of sourse, there is also the exhaust (probably water). Where will it be disposed?
How much power is the unit supposed to provide? What power usage are tehy assuming in oredr ot arrive at the 24 hour usage potential? Etc etc etc etc. All in all, the statement seems more product of marketdroid hyperbole than anything else.
Can somebody actually provide any of the details? Did I miss something obvious? I found nothing relevant in the technical FAQ, the support area, or the company info...so, what should we make of this announcement?
The truth is out there - we'll let it back in after it sobers up a bit. -The Cube
i would suggest a beowolf cluster of these, but that would require actually *interacting* with *real people*
Thank you. Very helfful. Of course, as you pointed out, they still have to deal with the exhaust and heat emissions. However, both of these should be rather small at the at which this unit operates. I am more interested in how they managed to reduce the mount of platinum neede to catalyze the reaction, and precisely how much is required. Both items are conspicuoulsy absent from the technical description. A price would also be a *little* helpful.
The truth is out there - we'll let it back in after it sobers up a bit. -The Cube
we will start the bidding at $3 million.
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Troll King
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if you get a demo unit can we play with it to?
:)
;)
as much as I think one of these things would be cool
there is unfortunatly no way I will ever afford one, or be in a posistion to get a demo unit
keep us all in mind if ya do
Computers save man alot of guesswork, but so does the bikini
How can this be redundant? It's the first post!
Power issues for mobile devices will prove to be a real rain on the their parade.
I've read what seems like 10,000 articles in the popular (and even technical) press that predict mobile computing will be super huge in 3 to 5 years time. Here in Europe, we'll have GPRS and 2Mb/s on our handheld devices by 2002 (apparently), so journos are predicting we'll have full-motion video feeds, etc., on our cellphones and the like.
Well, we might, but we'll also have to develop full-on biceps to carry the batteries that will have to power the things.
More reserch money for power!
G
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
I've always found Amigas work better for this. The one piece design gives them a nice wedge shape (especially the A600), and the multitasking OS allow it to hold 2 doors open at once.
If you look at this link you'll find that you're not the first person to make this comparison.
Ehh..about the can't use it at tests thingie...as I have understood it, school is there to prepare you for your grown-up life, it's not a goal in itself to have high grades. And, more importantly, your boss will not care if you use this kind of device in your daily work(well, he might if you do representative work).
Btw, there's nothing that says that this kind of device has to be visible to the rest of the world.
D*mn, I had to look augmentation up in a real book, Lexin(eng-swe online dictionary) didn't have it..
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If noone rtfa, then what's the slashdot effect?
What!
Is there some kind of space-time perturbation?
No ac has yet suggested to make a beowulf cluster out o' them.
I don't know wether I should find this reassuring or not...
I noticed that the lithium batteries for their current product are listed as providing 4 to 6 hours runtime. So at 12 to 24 hours runtime, you are only talking about lasting 2 to 4 times as long. Yes, I know 2 to 4 times longer IS a big deal, but can they bring it in at 2 to 4 times the cost of the current batteries? And the lithiums are easily rechargeable with a plug-in adapter. How will they distribute Hydrogen? Home electrolysis units? And, IIRC, the Space Shuttle fuel cells have a useful life of 2400 hours. How will these compare? The lithiums are supposed to be rechargeable 500 times.
I really do hope they answer all the questions we've raised. I'm not convinced that their application sounds like a hit in the marketplace, but, as others have mentioned, there are plenty of other applications for fuel cells of all shapes and sizes.
There is some current batery technology that will already provide power for up to 21hrs.
Lithium Ion SuperPolymer batteries..
http://www.electrofuel.com
Although fuel cells dont have a recharging problem... how will you store extra fuel?
Xybernaut reportedly has a more affordable consumer model (MA V) due in the third quarter of this year. It likely won't be -cheap-, but at least less than the current $5000-$8000. Personally, I'm going to be waiting until this comes out before I buy one myself (planning to use it as my primary college computer (^o^).
Groovy thing is, some rumors say that the new model will be using Crusoe (Xybernaut has an NDA with Transmeta).
BTW, the reason the price is currently up so high on the MA IV is that Xybernaut primarily sells to large firms or the government, who really don't care about the price, but rather the return they receive.
I would tend to wonder what else we would need.
First, you have your small handheld PCs...
Next, broadband wireless...
Now, this.
Imagine all the people....walking down the street looking uat porn...err...I mean...surfing the web.
hurray for technology!
Is anyone as troubled as I am by the following excerpt from their press release?
This combination of expanded battery life in conjunction with our patent portfolio of more than 450 patent applications awarded and pending will further position Xybernaut to maintain its leading role in the wearable computing industry.
Sounds a lot like they're preparing to crawl up the backside of anyone who tries to play in their sandbox, Open Source or not.
Shut up and eat your vegetables!!!
...for a Beowulf cluster!
Great that we may have FMV on our phones, but why? I use my phone mostly for chats with friends, and the last thing I want to see when sitting back in a chair with my eyes closed is their mug staring out of my little phone. That last sentence does actually assume I have transparent eyelids, but you get the message :-)
The present trend for mobiles is making them smaller and more unobtrusive which makes the idea of watching TV or videophone on a tiny handset rather annoying. The current generation of children will all grow up with eye problems anyway from staring at Microvitec Cubs &c. for so many years.
There has been talk in the press over the last few years of making roll-out screens - what's the latest?
Then again, my Nokia 6150 phone has a battery life of a few days, which is more than enough, but apparently if you have a phone with a vibrating alarm, it soaks up batteries.
Let's all look forward to a vibrating Psion with loads of power, which is small, and can be used for fax, email, and phone in one package!
http://blog.grcm.net/
$5,489 for the base unit with HMD, and all you get is a lowly P200, a tiny little 32mb of ram and a pathetic 2.1gb hard drive so you can run linux/win98/whatever, but not very well. But you can upgrade to a P233 and 64mb for only ~$800 more! Or for $6,971 you get the P233, 128mb ram and a 4.3g drive... WHAT AN AMAZING DEAL.
PFFT. I want a wearable, but there's no way I'd allow myself to get ripped off by these guys for such a shitty system. Maybe someone will come out with one of these with a Crusoe, 128mb+, and at least a 6g hard drive for $2500.
Considering how explosive hydrogen is, I can't see the FAA, or any other airline safety authority for that matter, approving fuel cell use while onboard a plane.
That would pretty much rule out using hydrogen fuel cells in a situation (long-haul flights) where they'd be most desirable.
...the military applications of a 24-hour cell seem nil. Especially in extensive operations, where troops won't be returning to any sort of centralized base for several days.
Mind you, this stuff seems great. But if they can't use it, I doubt the government will offer it too much support.
-Ravagin
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is NPR! And that means....it's time for a drum solo!"
Karma: T-rexcellent.
If I could unplug the power pack and use it to jump start my car.
......:)
All this technology is very useful - but if I can't get to work in the mornings
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
So if O2/H2 mix is as dangerous as petrol, why not just have a cheaper portable I/C generator whith a fuel tank in our back pockets :)
Hey!......look out with that ciggarette!.........BOOOOOOM!!!!
Great Balls of Fire!
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Refueling is not trivial, since you are dealing with either high pressure gas or cryogenic liquid.
Gasoline engines are used because they are easy to make and easy to use.
And cheap.
Your wallet stays open. Our source remains closed. We are MSFT
I'm sick of hearing of these damned things! Who wants to be the borg?
I'll admit that I have next to no idea about how fuel cells work, but if they could be produced to use alkanes, they would have various advantages. The longer ones are less flammable, liquid at room temperature, and can be produced from crude oil.
As long as they're not software patents, I'm not the slightest bit troubled by it.
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"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he hid Piglet's mangled corpse.
I've used the Xybernaut, and it's not much fun after the first 5 minutes of initial excitement. Unless you have a situation where it is really required (where I work, scientists use them in the lab so they can easily enter data while they work), there is no point in having one of these. It has a display/touch-screen that you strap to your wrist -- actually it takes up most of your forearm. And there is a big, bulky belt that holds the battery and port-replicator. The headset is huge and heavy and has wires coming out all over the place.
Better to get a palm or laptop. Wearables won't really be practical for personal use until we can fit them to a pair of eye glasses.
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"Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he hid Piglet's mangled corpse.
This is the ultimate "vaporware".
[Humor key: Fuel cells release water vapor]
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- http://www.ballard.com/ Stationary fuel cells (for your house)
- http://www.manhattsci.com/ Micro fuel cells (for your cell phone/PDA)
- http://www.plugpower.com/home.cfm More home fuel cells
- http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html Fuel cell discussion list
Thanks to Patrick Salsbury, who hosts the list and who provided the above links in an earlier Slashdot thread.Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Seriously though, this is way interesting. Especially if you could figure out a way combine the fuel cell with the equipment necessary to render the H20 by-product back into it's original, separate parts! Sure, maybe the thing might be as big as the Xybernaut itself, so wear it on the other hip, or get a frame-mount backpack for the whole rig. Of course, the obligatory cell phone could be built right into the whole deal, with the cell modem (screw satellite), a video camera and mic... Ahhhh, the possibilities. According to this months popular science, somebody developed a little $1 chip smaller than my pinky finger nail (an im not a big guy) that actually functions as a web server capable of up to 7,200 hits an hour and understands TCP/IP. With high bandwidth connections and a good VR environment, web servers embedded in *everything*, and displays being built into eyeglasses even as we speak, why would you ever need to leave home... or rather, ever physically go there?
"Inveniemus Viam Aut Faciemus" 'We will find a way... Or we will make one!' --Hannibal of Carthage
If I remember correctly, last time I heard about xybernaut they were in hot financial waters. Part of the peril of being ahead of your time -- wearable computers will be efficient and affordable at some point, but they sure aren't now.
So how much of this is just speculation to increase their stock valuation (if they have stock) or to get more vc?
Anyway, they do need a web admin with minimal experience, and they're in my hometown. Hmmm... Employee Discount?
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
If we're going to be wearing an electrical device, why not try to power it from our own bodies? I'm sure I saw some research into this a while ago. Can't remember the details, but if the technology becomes small enough, and low powered enough, it should be possible.
Getting slightly offtopic here, but another interesting company is Plug Power, a subsidiary of GE that's developing fuel cells for the home market. (Not only do I get 7kW of power, but hot water, too!) Their site also has a lot of info on the latest fuel cell technology.
Also, Manhattan Scientifics (sorry, no URL) has been working on micro fuel cells for cell phones and portable computers that are powered by methanol.
All of the fuel cell companies have been doing extremely well on the stock market since the beginning of the year.
I just keep wishing that people wrote straightforward html so that I could change the font size myself.
Anyway the tech looks pretty snazy. I want one.
...never explain, ever apologize" - Dogbert
...shit outa here, monkey boy! Rob, you need to bitch-slap larry!
"And this perpetual motion machine she built is a joke - it just gets faster and faster"
...
"Lisa! In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"
Maybe we'd have to ban smoking before it would be safe enough to implement fuel cells in consumer vehicles. Wouldn't that be a shame.
So, if I re-phrase my question to read:
Yes, I know 2 to 4 times longer IS a big deal, but can they bring it in at 4 to 8 times the cost of the current batteries?
We would be in agreement on an 'economic equivalent' formula?
I really hope they can make them affordable. I have no idea what fuel cell technology costs to manufacture, and I'm anxiously waiting for some product of this approximate size and quantity to come out so we can get some economic 'bechmarks'.
This Isn't for you but whoever the fuck moderated my post better have read all these books too... an it was hella on topic! what the FUCK is technology without APPLICATIONS? I think I made a point of citing two of the BEST applications of wearables ever published. Since the WHOLE point of /. is spreading information, just because mine comes from books (RFTMAH) doesn't mean it doesn't apply. As for redundant? I was a brand new slashdotter when I wrote it and didn't know how to set my threshold so I read every post up to the point that I wrote it and none of them were the same. I am Unique. ptHHHhpppt.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Thanks, that was mostly supposed to be a funny post. with inside jokes refering to Neil Stephensons book... as for tests? I went to desert storm... and back to the tan land 7 years later. Yes, its my real name and address. yes the VA has my record including my SW asia ribbons. thank you for your reply I was wondering if anyone actualy read anything I have written since I'm new and untill this post had never recieved moderation. Of course I think the moderation was screwed but I'm sure everyone who gets moderated down feels the same way.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.