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Yahoo Putting Movies Online
limpdawg writes, "Yahoo anounced a deal to put Hong Kong movies on the Internet in order to keep pirates from selling them in alleys. " Of course I'm still living for the day when every piece of video and film is online and available for me to watch whenever I choose... if the first step is some Bruce Lee movies, I'm cool with that.
Access:
/. again
Honk Kong has a reasonable high availablitity of ADSL modems, with cable modems on line in the next few months. - We already have interactive TV - eg. pick your movie and play it. - and a household penetration of about 60% (available, not neccessary subscribed).
Piracy:
Yes, I can wander around hong kong and find these movies for about US$4, but pirated VCD quality is hit and miss - often the new releases are a camcorder in the back of the cinema!
More interestingly, across the border (yes hong kong still has one), I can pick up DVD's of all of this stuff for US$10-20 which are usually laserdiscs burnt onto DVDs
Software is more difficult to get in Hong Kong now, although still available if you try hard.
Will it work:
If it is available at higher resolutions, then it will get some usage, but if you look at 1-2 years down the road, then there will be alot more set-top boxes that double as internet access so that is what they are aiming at.
Nice to see Hong Kong on the
HK has huge high rise apartments which is great for streaming video. HKTel puts in high bandwith fiber to one appartment complex, it's already wired with ethernet, and boom HKTel can stream video. HKTel currently handles the fiber and streaming video servers, yahoo wants to jump on the bandwagon. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend that this is new for Hong Kong.
If I go to Yahoo, their ad banners load, and they get money, right? That money comes from me loading that banner, and me seeing it, which takes both *my* bandwith and *my* time. Ergo, Yahoo, everytime I visit, is making a profit off of me.
Let's just say that maybe I don't object to this. Maybe I have no problem with them draining away my life to fill the coporate coffers. Maybe I enjoy being screwed by ``new media'' conglomerates.
But what I *do* object to is their choice of films. Bruce Lee? Jackie Chan? Why Hong Kong? Why not, oh, say, MAINLAND CHINA? What does Yahoo have to hide?
So, they want you to watch brainless action flicks. Great. Why don't the do a real service to the community by showing Chinese movies with a message, such as Farewell, My Concubine or The Blue Kite? Surely, we have more to fear from totalitarianism than from whatever nonesense enemies Jackie Chan dreams up to fight on film? C'mon. Anyone can see those movies simply by going to Blockbuster. But the sort of movies I'm interested in seeing are the ones that the PRC gov't doesn't want us to see, the ones that not only are suppressed at home, but which they attepmt to destroy in order to prevent the outside world from knowing what's going down.
With China headed on the path to become the U.S.'s ``Most favored nation'', I think that it is of utmost importance for us to know the sort of abuses that occur regularly there. I don't know if any Chinese money is tied up in Yahoo, but I would sure be glad to see them presenting films with a message.
For my money, it's the better bargain, by FAR.
I'd rather spend the $24 on a DVD than spend 3 hours doing the streaming media dance in Reboot NT. It's far cheaper to have them burn a DVD of the Bruce Lee movie and mail it than it is to lease an internet connection fast enough to download a decent quality movie.
MeTV.Com already has Bruce Lee movies online.
I'd rather watch a camcorder'd version taped off a television, dragged through mud, and dubbed thrice by Bob The Clowny Boy.
MP3 is the real thing. Streaming video is just...awful. I mean, there are people out there not impressed with DVD, and I see where they're coming from(could we please have a mathematical algorithm that pays a little more attention to the human visual system than YUV?), but it's nothing like streaming video.
*LOL* If anything, streaming video will *increase* the market for Hong Kong movies that don't suck in encoding quality...so the pirates get to sell more content.
Greaaaaaat....
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Think they'll keep it friendly and free when they've weakened the demand for VCD's? My bet is that the whole idea is to own both format and content by providing the movies through a web interface of some kind.
:)
I wonder if the main selling point of VCD's is the content, or is it the ability to play it on demand with ordinary players? If it's the content, the the movie companies might have a chance of pulling it off. If it's the accessability, then I think it's another format war brewing.
Business as usual in the woods, no?
-- lk t lv ll th vwls t f wrds. T svs lts f tm t wrt bt ts pn n th ss t rd nd mks m lk lk cmplt dpsht.
Bruce Lee
Jackie Chan
Jet Li
I think a MPAA boycott could be more than tolerable, it could be downright fun! Time to crank up the bandwith to my home!
IS the begining of the end or the end of the begining? Hopefully this will be a huge success and set a precedent. I might even buy brands I see in the adverts if they don't suck.(I rarely do that)
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
I really wonder what the picture quality will be like, though. I mean, typical VCDs now are two-VCDs per movie, which is over a gig. I doubt Yahoo will want tons of people grabbing gigs of data from them, so it'll probably be lower resolution than VCDs.
Not to mention that VCDs can be viewed on a TV with the tons of VCD players people have in Asia. (And many DVD players play VCDs as well.)
I don't think pirate VCDs will die. Well, at least not until pirate DVDs take off...
Still, I like this guy's attitude toward dealing with the problem. I do think this could definitely bite into pirate sales.. and in a way that doesn't piss off legit consumers, too!
Try dropping the middle of an MPEG frame on the wire... try running a network level adaptation on the protocol. You can't, not without serious horsepower in the middle. If you'd like to be able to handle network congestion control and adaptation at the router level, MPEG is less than optimal.
What lesson has the music industry learned? I don't recall them learning or being taught any lessons... Face it: yes, MP3's deprive big time execs of money... But they also hurt the smaller smaller and midsized artists... Probably the midsized ones the most.
I mean, really small acts know that they need a real job to support themselves. Large acts know they'll never need jobs again. It's the midsized ones that are hoping to break into the big time that really get squeezed by MP3's...
I'll stand by that, until the day that bands like Sebadoh, Shellac, Unsane and even Sonic Youth (bands that don't quite come close to selling millions of records) come forward and say that MP3's actually HELP them... Until then, I'll think that all the lines being made up that say tha MP3 distribution really helps the artists because then they don't need to deal with studio's is just a bunch of justification lines...
And what... Vidster? I'm sure everyone here will be able to justify the idea that they own such and such movie and what not... Face it... You hate industry but they love what they give you... If you hurt them, they won't be able to provide anymore.. Think NO STAR WARS III...
So now the alternative to cheaply buying a badly copied DVD or VHS cassette is a choppy, blurry, jerky and most of all time-consuming download. Great!!
You can watch it the old way, for $5, fuzzy, with the occasional scan-line mangle, on a TV, at your leisure, repeatedly, fast-forwarding, rewinding, frame-freezing..
Or, you can log into a site which tracks who you are and where you come from, sit and wait for a stable connection (which you won't get), squint at a 320x200 (at best!) box on your monitor, watch in stream-time without the option of jumping past the boring part (maybe you can pause the stream to take a leak or get a beer - without dropping the connection and starting over), raise your blood-pressure at the dropped frames and jerky playback, and should you want to see the film again, you get to rinse-lather-repeat the whole process.
Someone should introduce the people responsible for this to the folks behind content-filtering software and CSS. They'd have a lot in common.
Aren't there dual-bay VCR's out in the far east? I mean, how many times can you watch a movie in the first place, to make rental charges excessive? How many movies can you own to need to buy pirate copies? If you're that poor, you should worry about food, not getting a deal on Titanic, ferchrisakes!
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Maggie Cheung! *biff bam pow*
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
God, I don't want to install that POS RealPlayer on my computer. I don't 'enjoy' having all of my file association taken away, only to find out that realplayer reassociates itself, even after you remove them, every time you reboot, or log off your computer.
Not to mention the interface sucks ass (no rewind? wtf?)
God, I hope real dies. what's the matter with streaming MPEG?
We should push for a non-propritary streaming format (mpeg, or mpeg4 like windows media player), as opposed to begging apple and real to port there propritary s*** to linux
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
No, I didn't deliberately misundertand you. Using anything other than BackStreet Boys wouldn't be a fair apples to apples comparison, since there's a high degree of similarity across the board for pop music in ANY country.
Maybe I shouldn't have put Faye on "the list", but I just can't accept the fact that an "artist" in her own words copies music from groups like the Cranberries (though its done legally)
Again, I don't know why you're bringing up a situation that ceased to exist 6 whole years ago, but it was very common thing to license music back then, simply because there was a lack of talent of that sort in Hong Kong back then (please be reminded that Hong Kong has a total population of 6 million people - they don't have a niche for everything back then). Of course, like I said this point is nil, since almost no artists do that now.
Well, they don't "license" it anymore, but copy 75% of the song to claim to be Artists instead of singers. Take a look at the recent press in Ming Pao Entertainment when they ripped music from Singapore. I think it has become better tho, because this time the press actually exposed them.
You're right, but you missed the point. The very act of newspapers exposing them shows that the public doesn't condones such action, and we find it very intolerable as well. In fact, another artist was recently accused of copying (almost note for note) a Thai song of 2 years ago. He was placed in under public scrutiny, ranging from enraged music fans, to music directors, and awards were even considered to be evoked.
Your example not only proves my point that Hong Kong doesn't show a "it's ok" attitude towards copycat artists. Please don't insult the Hong Kong entertainment industry anymore. Thanks.
Much of its ideas are not original and were "copied" from the West.
I see. So where did John Woo copy his ideas from? I'm surprised to see a copycat like him do so well in Hollywood. The reason that there's a talentdrain in the Hong Kong entertainment industry is because there's more money to be made from Hollywood movies. They get funded better, because a movie made in English would have better sales compared to a movie made in Cantonese. Their leaving is certainly not linked to the lack of quality productions as you mislead it to be.
but the worst part is that there are practically no "artists" anymore who actually come up with their own music (one exception is Beyond, a band in HK.)
You're outdated by at least six years. Beyond isn't the only band producing original music (but they sure are one band producing originall shoddy music that doesn't sell). Most of the artists don't license songs from abroad anymore. Faye Wong? She has been singing original songs for a since 1994.
A Hong Kong-nese mentality is that "if I can get it for less, then I will get it for less". They lack an understanding for intellectual property, and it has nothing to do with the fact if the work is "high quality" or not. Of course, you fail to mention that American movies made on VCDs sell like hotcakes in Hong Kong.
Sorry for sounding so harsh, but I have to counter-argue Hong Kong FUD when I see it.
By what measure do you assess "talent"? Faye Wong possess a very beautiful voice (which is already a "real talent" for ANYONE that listens to music).
(Beyond, on the other hand, _is_ Hong Kong culture! :-)
Beyond announced a month ago they are "breaking up" temporarily. Surely I don't believe a group that _is_ the Hong Kong culture is eager to break up.
America, even with its BackStreets and 36 2/3 degrees celcius, does have an incredible amount of original music.
what do you define as "orginal"? The Hong Kong music industry rarely licenses songs from abroad anymore (as I have mentioned in another post). If you include "non-inspired music" as "orginal", then it's total bs, since every BackStreet boys song sound exactly the same.
The recent boom in pirate VCDs seem to point to the fact that people don't care as much if the quality is poor, they just want to watch the film. I've seen pirate VCDs with a row of dark blobs at the bottom of the screen (the audience's heads at the cinema), "live" laughter/clapping/cheering, mono sound, fuzzy/blur images, start/ending chopped off. Yet, people watch movies like Toy Story 2 on VCD, where the hard work of renderer farms goes down the gurgler. I think I understand where this guy is coming from.
:)
:)
Also, original VCDs aren't expensive, nor are the players. I picked up an el cheapo no-name one for USD$60 that was VCD v3.0 compliant!
Besides, on the low budget HK movies survive on, who can pay for expensive effects? So there's no diff watching it at low bandwidth!
I don't know if there's going to be an English version, but watch out for Tokyo Raiders. There's heaps of spectacular fight scenes. Stylised fighting, but good!
I really hope that Yahoo! decides to webcast these movies via something fairly cross platform like RealVideo (until an open source streaming video codec is released of course ;-> ) to stream Bruce Lee to the masses. It would be a pretty big setback to Linux and other alt OS's (in the desktop market) if the first experiment in webcasting to a mass market audience is supported only on a single platform. In all fairness I'd like for Yahoo! to webcast in multiple formats, hopefully when this goes live we'll have the option of viewing in RealVideo, Netmeetings, Quicktime and Vivo (they still around?) the upside to that would be if RealVideo's numbers are higher than other formats the Linux community could that as one more peice of ammo to get Apple to port/open source quicktime to linux: "Look at usage numbers on RealVideo, check out the number of Linux clients that connected, wouldn't you like to tap into that?" ;->
"Listen: We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" - Kurt Vonnegut
The thing with the Hong Kong entertainment industry in general is that it does not produce quality productions. Much of its ideas are not original and were "copied" from the West. Much of their talent have already left (ie. John Woo, Chow Yun Fat, Jet Li) for the western industry. Listen to their "hit" music, much of it is copied from Western Music (I can name many, for example, Wong Fei and the Cranberries...)
In the music Industry, most of their singers/actors are just "good looking idols" popularized by studios (like 98 degrees in the west), but the worst part is that there are practically no "artists" anymore who actually come up with their own music (one exception is Beyond, a band in HK.)
If one's work is of high quality, many people will not pirate it, but actually buy it. I know I wouldn't pirate The Matrix after I have seen it on the big screen. Many people actually download an MP3, listen to it, and if they like it, they will buy the CD. If the Hong Kong industry does not inspire creativity and originality, no one will respect its work and will keep on producing VCD's.
Or perhaps he just really likes Bruce Lee movies, which are also in the package, as it says in the article.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Aren't all movies more or less online right now?
I've got a great copy of Star Wars on my drive, plus a bunch of crappy copies of other movies.
But I have found out that if you want something bad enough, eventually you'll be able to track it down.
I guess it all comes down to a persons want/expenditure ratio. I really wanted Austin Powers 2, so I spent 3 days piecing it together. I really don't want any HK movies, so I probably won't even bother clicking on them off of Yahoo.
I just hope that watching these movies isn't such a pain that nobody will do it. Go Yahoo!
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
Everyone I know who watches any tv to speak of loves TiVo. After they dominate that market, how long will it be before you can upgrade and get on-demand programming with your bandwidth? Instead of saying, "record at time X", just tell it "download X". If you're fast, watch it live, if not, come back and it will be there.
It's a nice way for Yahoo to try out movies over the Internet as a business area. Maybe they have more aggressive plans. Imagine a push by Yahoo to have copyright terms shortened so they can provide more free content. With a "write your congressman" button on Yahoo. Now that would drive the MPAA nuts.
What, me worry?
i'm from hongkong and i think i should put in my 2 cents here. you'll be surprised that the VCDs of Hong Kong movies come out not long after the movie's been taken down. (genuine ones i mean.) and the illegal (i prefer not to use pirated. it sounds worse than stealing. instead i use illegal becasue this only implies it's governed by law.) ones...well, let's just say that the people who make the illegal copies are extremely efficient. they tape them in the cinema, and then release them as VCDs. we all know that the movie industry would like p0ut the films up on the cinema as long as possible coz they can make money but this is not very good for the consumer. it's nice to see them (reluctantly) sign an agreement with Yahoo. oh ..and illegal copies of software/movie's down ..there used to be a lot more several years ago..
Now, if they talked corporations who buy product placement into sponsoring the servers, ie: showing their products off indefinately, this could be an even more win-win situation.
-- Ender, Duke_of_URL
Supply and Demand. You have basically an infinite supply (dgital media reproduced), you need to create an infinite demand. Fans who "love" what they watch, and can never get enough, i.e. infinite demand. This is done by creating and nurturing devoted fans. Not by sueing devoted fans.
Open access to media only makes it more valuable, not value based on scarcity, but value based on brand equity. Comanies in general, and media companies specifically, should be moving more towards a beneficial one to one relationship with their customers. Rather than the turnip squeezing we have today.
Of course, all of this only makes sense if you really grok what the Internet is and can do. If you want to control media like it was done from the 1st to the 20th centuries, good luck, it's not gonna work.
--
+&x
Like this southpark parody that's just begging to get slashdotted.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
How long do you think it will be before we will be able to go on to the internet and watch any peice of visual media ever created (sesame street episode 65- canadian version of course)??
i say 5 years.
and you can quote me on that.
"..Constructive critizism is always welcome however."
Anyone who has read Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson will be familiar with the concept of the great library.. a gigantic database that is the store of every little piece of information you can imagine.
:)
:)
People pay to access the information, and a part of that payment goes to whomever provided it in the first place, making it a very nice system indeed
Of course, it also spawns a series of 'gargoyles' who strap video cameras and sensors and other input devices to themselves so that they can transmit everything they experience back to the library.. in the hope that by sheer volume, someone will access their information, and they'll be paid for it
Perhaps an online movie database is a first step.. would you pay a small amount to view those movies?
B.
The most effective solution to piracy (and coincidentally, the way to beat any competitor in a capitalist market) is to offer better access to the same product. Glancing at advertising is an easier, cheaper payment than paying for a $15-20 VHS tape, or $15 for a cd, or $20 for a hardcover book ...
Just as open-source software is creating a new market model for corporations (RedHat, etc), open-access media has been spawning new marketing models for corporations. So far, however, open-access media ventures are largely based in webpage content rather than extending into traditional media. The established media giants don't grok that freeing their traditional media forms can be beneficial and profitable if done correctly. There are a few companies that are putting this into action - mp3.com comes to mind. However, until the current media giants either wake up to the revolution or get overthrown (by enlightened companies, not by piracy), we will have to continue dealing with a barrage of political noise and interference.
Let's put some support behind this newest baby step - next time you want to watch an action movie, download one legitimately! Piracy only leads to political sympathy for the media giants - the support of legitimate open media will truly revolutionize the industry.
You know what to do with the HELLO. ...
Help create an open-source world
New movies would be available on the Website after they had played out in cinemas, on cable television and been released on video compact discs (VCD).
This seems to be the problem here.. pirates don't just get the buyer the product, but they get it before the buyer can go to the video store, rent it and copy it. They are proposing to wait until the movies have become old and out on video (and thus copiable). The movie pirates will still be providing new movies before they are release on rental (or even for sale). I have seen movies posted on the net (as well as seen them on others computers) that weren't even on sale at video stores. This is the pirate niche.
"Of all days, the day on which one has not laughed is the most surely the one wasted." -Sebastian Roch Nicol