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Importing PSX2 Illegal?
An anonymous reader sent us to a gamepot article that tells us that importing a PSX2 (currently available only in Japan) is actually illegal. The demand on this box is amazing, but consider what it is capable of, its probably well deserved.
If you want to get an import PSX2, Daily Radar has a good article on how to score one: here.
Also, an interesting fact was that Sony had to shut down their commerce web site because the site received 100,000 hits the first minute that PSX2 preorders went live.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
I expect (but then, what would I know?) that this is out of date crypto export controls coming in to play - nothing more, nothing less. Ofcourse Sony wants to have decent crypto in this thing - lots of people are saying how you'll be able to download lots of lovely Sony-sourced movies/songs/whatever to your box via a cable connection (or whatever), so why shouldn't they put decent crypto there?
While you Americans cry in to your Cheerios about how unfair it is you can't get your hands on these boxes for a few more months (how long do you think it'll take for the Japanese government to step aside to let Sony make billions for the Japanese economy off the back of the PS2?), i'll be having a good ol' chuckle to myself, thinking back to the days of poor ol' Zimmerman and the hassles he went through thanks to PGP and the US Governments futile attempts to stop the world getting it's hands on decent crypto.
...j
(Gee, I must be in a bad mood today).
My guess would be that the PSX2 uses Memory Sticks as memory cards. Memory Stick technology uses Magic Gate to control access to MP3s and the like, which would account for the article.
Does this mean that Magic Gate devices (such as Sony MP3 players and the like) are illegal to export from Japan without a licence, or is the PSX issue something to do with geographic zoning and international IP treaties or somesuch?
The postwar Japanese constitution enshrines privacy as a right to the point of ruling out restrictions on cryptography. Given the title of this law (International Foreign Exchange and Trade Law), I'd guess it's a WTO or WIPO thing, which possibly overrides the local laws of signatory nations.
Sounds like a good idea to me! let me know when you've got it running.
Previous news reports have stated that the DVD playback software for PS2 resides *on the memory card* (it can also be reloaded onto the card from a utility disc that comes with the system). Therefore under the DVD Forum/DVD-CCA license ("protect the CSS code at all costs") they MUST encrypt the memory cards.
OTOH, it's apparently a proprietary encryption scheme, and we know how well those usually fare...
- that oughta keep the mystique going :) :)) - highly desirable, in demand, artifically limited supply - econ 101 formula for big ticket, thick margins, yeah!!
Nothing boosts demand (and consequently $$$) for something than having it prohibited
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Distributed.Net DOES NOT illegally break encryption. It participates in legal competitions...
Given the fact that Sony released the original PlayStation in the US market on September 9, 1995, my guess is that Sony is aiming for a September 9, 2000 release date.
This will be extremely auspicious because it's also the one-year anniversary of the US release of Dreamcast.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
I mean, it's prohibited under Japanese law. So suppose I find a way to acquire one and remove it from Japanese soil? I simply don't take any trips somewhere where the Japanese have jurisdiction.
It's not like the US is going to permit extradition of a US citizen to Japan for importing a video game in violation of Japanese export controls any more than they would allow extradition of a US citizen to Saudi Arabia for illegally importing Playboy into that country (or *gasp* simply putting nude pictures on the internet where Saudi citizens can download them).
The world is a pretty complex place. Just because you offend a particular government doesn't mean all that much if you are beyond that government's reach... consider how publications like the New American treat the governments of China, Russia, Cuba, et al.
This is my opinion and my opinion only. Incidentally, IANAL.
MOO;IANAL.
There used to be a picture linked here.
How hard would it be to get consent from the Department of Trade and Commerce?
Just curious...
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
son, I will not have you taking Gen. MacArthur's name in vain! :)
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
My question is how long will it be before the NSA wants keys to the encryption used by the PSX2? Will they be demanding that importing of the PSX2 be made illegal?
Not true!
Mazda is owned by Ford, Nissan by Renault. I can't think of other examples off the top of my head.
Japan was a protectionist country, though - and do you know what organisation did the most to stop it? the World Trade Organisation - also known as the WTO.
I can't see that as a good enough reason for Sony.
There's a good sized market for import consoles before their launch over here. Bumps up Sony's sales figures very nicely. But they don't always play the UK spec games so they get replaced when the proper ones come out.
But, this way, they only get the one sale...
I'm wondering whether this might actually be an unintended side-effect.
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Apparently the US has been exporting its stupid export regulations.
--
E_NOSIG
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Used Games Under Fire in Japan
Sony has worked very hard to keep Americans, Japanese and Europeans from buying and using import products. For example, a lot of the new Japanese games that come out contain code which can detect whether you have a mod-chip in your Playstation (Dino Crisis is the best example I can think of. This detection can be beaten, but it is starting to get into the "it's more trouble than it is worth catagory."). They do not want people to be able to region jump.
In my case, they have thoroughly alienated my business. I have no interest in Sony products any more, and won't buy from them. Now, this isn't me proposing a boycott or anything, this is just me getting disgusted by a company that treats consumers like garbage. I'm sure Playstation II will do well, I'm sure that unlike previous systems it will be more taylored to what the bosses of Sony think each region should get. I expect to see a lot of "lowest common denominator" games come out, and people won't be able to get things from outside their region.
That's ok by me, it'll give me more money to spend on my computer.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
The Playstation 2 is what is known as a category killer. Not just a console but a DVD player, firewire gives it the ability to connect to disk-drives, video cameras and of course the web.
Secure e-commerce from your TV. Welcome to a plan for World Domination. But at least this one comes in a sexy box
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
So, it's called a PlayStation [2], and abbreviated PSX or PSX2.
Where the heck does the X come from?
--
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
I wonder what type of action Sony will take against eBay? I'm guessing that there will be auctions as soon as they become available in Japan and if the price isn't too high, I'll even bid on them.
Its like the few weeks before Christmas. I remember people going out there buying Furbies and then selling (scalping) them on eBay.
The demand is there, or here...depending on how you look at it and the supply is in Japan.
I wonder though, would the "American" stuff work on a Japanese box once the PSX2 games arrived here?
-Vel
I don't know if the US talked Japan into regulating supercomputer exports, but they did talk them into crypto export regs, primarily in response to the (NTT or NEC?) development of an RSA chip.
"Can't Export Without A Permit" doesn't mean you can't export it - it just means you need to get a permit. If the motivation here really is restricting gray-market sales of Japanese versions of the product to the US, Sony probably can manipulate the permit process to prevent it.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
After years of the U.S. restricting crypto from export, the shoe may finally be on the other foot.
My instinct tells me that it is unlikely that the Japanese government would place export restrictions on cryptographic technology that would be approved for a game machine. Still, its kind of interesting to imagine all the righteous indignation felt on the part of U.S. consumers when we (the U.S.) have been doing it to the rest of the world for years. I kind of hope it is illegal. Maybe we deserve it.
Why would they need encryption and region codes on DVD's anyway? This just seems like a real blunder on the DVD-CCA's part. They knew the risks, they had to know DeCSS could/would happen. I don't get it.
Thanks 348...=)
I found the following article which provides a little bit of info on why the PSX2 seems to be considered *hot*.. Here is a link to a Sony press release talking a bit about that "Magic Gate", it's topical but has few technical details..
I'm wondering whether this might actually be an unintended side-effect.
It's kinda hard to tell from the article whether Sony had intended this or knew about it in advance, but I would imagine a company with Sony's experiance and resources would have been able to work this out in advance. So they must have had a good reason for this.
I'm guessing that it's to do with the fact that it's a DVD player as well as a games console. Each region will get a PSX2 specifically coded to accept only DVDs from their region.
Sorry, Everything on a data-carrier of any kind needs to be decrypted in one way or another. Remember that Braille is unreadable for most of us. In the end what matters is if the data can be read of the carrier in some way or another and can be made legible. Well with your dvd and the PS2 that is the case. You need one of those players. With normal encryption, like RSA, Blowfish etc. it is a key that you hold that you have to give. The thing is not the encryption. The thing is that somebody (the lawenforcer) has to be able to read it.
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But, this way, they only get the one sale...
I'm wondering whether this might actually be an unintended side-effect.
Yes, they only get one sale, but it's one sale of a machine that loses them money. Remember, the real money is in the software, and this is the whole reason for territorial lockout.
The premise is like this...Let's say JapanCo is making a cool fighting game and it sells like hotcakes in Japan. Because of this they're going to make it available State-side, but AmeriCo is going to publish it over here. What happens when everyone was able to easily buy the Japanese game when it came out instead of waiting for the American release? AmeriCo loses a lot of money, gets pissed off, and doesn't make as many games for PS2. This in turn makes Sony lose money (less games, less money). It's not about making people happy as much as it is not wanting to piss off publishers. This is why you need a mod chip to play Japanese games on the American PS1.
I suspect this whole "illegal import" deal is just another phase of that. Every territorial lockout has had a solution provided at some point. Making it illegal to even export the product from Japan is probably the best way they could have done what normally is done in the hardware to stop Westerners from playing Eastern PS2 games.
Well Sony don't really want anyone exporting their console from Japan before they're ready to launch it overseas. That way they can change the setup of the console and charge what they like in the US and Europe, safe in the knowledge that this time it's illegal for someone to import one from Japan where it'll likely be cheaper. Remember Sega's antics with the Megadrive/Genesis? It's similar except this time Sony have actually managed to get the law behind them.
I doubt this story has anything to do with crypto or the ilk. Japan is a very protectionist country. If a large company like sony (Who's profits have been on the decline because of the yen) asks to Japanese gov't keep the PSx2's inside the country so marketing doesn't get ruined then that's what is going to happen.
To date no japanese company has ever been purchased by a forign company.
When the first American company (Cargill, Inc. the largest private company in the world) attempted to trade on the nippon market they were boycotted. They had to enter into a partnership with a Japanese company before anyone would accept their trades.
This is nothing new to a country that has a long history of being over protective with their markets.
Why would they need bullet proof encryption on a console anyway? This just seems like a real blunder on Sony's part. They know the restrictions, they had to know this could/would happen. I don't get it.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
Someone has 6 brand new PSX2s forsale on eBay.
I am sure eBay will cancel the auction if this is really illegal.
-d9
I think encryption is not the true reason.
It's more a DVD-like case ; they just don't want europeans and americans to get japanese pxs2.
Check this articl e (in french) :
Basically, sony Europe will sue anyone importing psx2 in Europe (businesses & individuals).
As the PS2 contains encryption and I live in the UK, if the police asked me to see what was encrypted on my PS2 (assuming I had one) and I couldn't decrypt it, I'd be breaking the law. So doesn't that make possesion of a PS2 in the UK illegal ??
Which makes me think - if I owned a DVD but no DVD player I'd also be in possession of encrypted data I couldn't decrypt....