Slashdot Mirror
PROPAGANDA Closes Its Doors
Bowie J. Poag writes "I'll keep this short and sweet--
Due to the lack of upkeep on the site (read: The guy I gave control of the site to didn't do anything to keep it going like he promised..) I've decided its time for Propaganda to close its doors for good.. I'm not going to pursue the idea of finding a replacement, or going back to doing it solo.
For now, the site will remain up for those who still care to visit. I've finally managed to locate a site where I can move my work to, in order to cut any remaining ties with VA Linux Systems. The work will remain publically available elsewhere, but no further additions will be made to the collection. The last two less-than-stellar volumes will also be removed.
Myself, the people I worked with, and my project have been through a great number of ups and downs in the last year or so..Some of which I really enjoyed, but most of which i'd honestly like to forget. To me, I'd rather see the project come to a respectful end than to see it continue to languish. I accomplished what I originally set out to do in '98, so, I guess we won in the end.
(A note to the Slashdot staff: Just to repeat, this isn't an April Fools joke. My decision was made a few days ago. Sorry for the bad timing.)
" I'm sorry to see the Project go - but you can be sure I'll treasure the Volumes that remain.
I've been visiting this propaganda site a couple of times but never really understud what it tried to offer. Now, by reading other posts I understand that this site offered desktop backgrounds... What can I say, talk about an overrated site... I mean c'mon... backgrounds! In the letter this Poag tries to make it sound like as if he actually did something for the comunity... and now, when this site will shut down, we will miss it sooo much. NOT!
While it was nice for backgrounds, etc, the site
was not a pleasure to go to with the JFK storylines and trying
to come off as having an important part in Open Source/Linux.
Posted anonymously to save my karma.
AFAIK Mandrake 6.1 shipped with all the Propogandas up until it shipped. May up to Volume 12. Just go rip those and stick them up somewhere.
I'm not trying to belittle your work (You obviously put a lot of effort into it, while most /.'s just talk tough), but I just didn't see the point of it. Then again, unlike 99.9999% of the linux/Slashdot crowd, I don't spend all my time in IRC, d/ling themes, and taking screenshots of them. But that's probably because I use BeOS, which isn't so ugly that it needs to be themed so you won't be reminded how ugly it is.
Anyway, congratulations for telling VA Linux to shove it.
Bummer.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Dammit, I should have just left my computer off. Seems like people were supposed to disconnect because of the amount of crap that would be flowing around today.
I can't believe how many people take my sig seriously and don't see the joke in it.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Sometimes I think anyone who browses lower is a masochist.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I don't suppose there's an objective, unbiased account of the difficulties between Poag and VALinux anywhere for those of us who missed all the previous episodes of this particular melodrama and would prefer something a little more comprehensive and coherent than is likely to be found wading through a bunch of old Slashdot posts?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Actually, the article said, "For now, the site will remain up for those who still care to visit." This is apparently misinformation.
"I've finally managed to locate a site where I can move my work to, in order to cut any remaining ties with VA Linux Systems." He doesn't say where or when it will be available.
"The work will remain publically available elsewhere, but no further additions will be made to the collection." Again, no indication where it will be available.
I have to agree with the original poster's assessment. As written, this is a poor article.
The new tilesets were nowhere near the quality of Bowie's work, which will be missed.
Did this Poag ever do anything that even slightly resembles a useful contribution to the open source community. To me it was just another lame I-can't-code-but-look-at-my-screenshots site.
oh, well... there goes my karma
Poag isnt the easiest guy to get along with.
(That was the nicest way to say it...)
VA Linux is buying everything in sight. Adding alot of people.
Not a very good mix.
As for Propaganda, ok tiles, but the JFK theme turned my stomach...
Last thought, Why is his site news worthy?
If VA Linux blows its nose, does it get an article?
We want good juicy news here, NEWS FOR NERDS.
If I wanted gossip I'd read the onion.
-IronWolve
* -1 Offtopic, Troll or +2 Interesting...
(Will it or wont it?, That is the question.)
Tell me it's not so. Quite recently there was another story on /. talking about the new series.
FOO
Yes, but whats that got to do with the price of tea in D'ni?
I am always making various backgrounds and tiles just to kill extra time. Some are horrid but others are nifty. Maybe we could make a site that allowed you to upload various backgrounds and let them be voted on and the best hundred that haven't yet been in a package for every six months or so get made into a package? Maybe could have various themes too. Some of the ones I made were grabbed up and spread across the university I usda work for so I guess they were okay. I don't see a point to a lot of spam in a web site attached to such a project but to actually just collect backgrounds would be fun. Anyone already doing this? If not we could get together and make us a site for it. :) Let me know. :)
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
An easy way to find the comments is to use the 'find' feature of your browser. In ie its ctrl-f, and in netscape its alt-f. Just do a find for '#101', etc..
-kms
Thanks for the dumbass. Search for "Bowie J. Poag" on the page and you'll see what I meant.
(Comment #101, see, I'm even trying to be helpful)
I strongly believe that trying to be clever is detrimental to your health. -- Linus Torvalds
Care to elaborate? What was up with sourceforge?
(Ugh, I realize this could start a major flamefest, sorry in advance, I'm honestly curious)
I strongly believe that trying to be clever is detrimental to your health. -- Linus Torvalds
youre not making this very easy, poag =)..
anyway in all seriousness.. your teams work is gorgeous and should be in an art museum of some kind. Thanks for the awesome tiles.
- about me
it touches some nerves. i'll give poag the chance to explain himself if he wants to..he's probably reading this article anyway. if you want to dig around go back through the archives to poag's rant on the subject..its around 3-4 months back. the thread (which i also replied to BTW) explains most of it.
he had a disagreemnt with VA regarding sourceforge's code (the stuff that runs the sourceforge.net site)..more details cna be had by lokking really hard in the old /. archives.
no. this one has been brewing a loong time. i'd expect it to happen eventually ..the timing was a bit off and he shoulda announced it earlier but this one is for real IMHO.
he did...a long time ago. its not hearsay since ive seen his site which was sourceforge before sourceforge.net existed. VA evidently pissed him off by doing a code and site grab. with no acknowledgements.
The subject says it all... and the mandatoray link to propaganda.themes.org
I have a few of my own...- 1.frames.html
http://www.reed.edu/~turnerd/brotherhood/volume
Become a FSF associate member before the low #s are used
Post the e-mails somewhere else and let the world read them and face the truth.
/. but deleted by _the_VA_employes_ ? )
(i wonder if they were posted here on
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
:( I love Propaganada's backgrounds.. they were what kept me from putting an ax in my computer in the first week of Mandrake :)
Propaganda was one of the best sites around, for it's content and for it's presentation. I'll miss it greatly.
"values of beta will give rise to dom!"
Betcha ten to one that tomorrow it'll be "APRIL FOOLS!" :) Remember, lots of sites did it last year- UF and FM come to mind.
If it's April 1st, it must be Quittin' Day...
--
--
E2 IN2 IE?
I still have no prob with getting on to propaganda.system12.com
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
what's wrong is that Poag is a troll and doesn't deserve our sympathy.
Mike Roberto (roberto@soul.apk.net) - AOL IM: MicroBerto
Berto
yes!
Mike Roberto (roberto@soul.apk.net) - AOL IM: MicroBerto
Berto
wrong.
Mike Roberto (roberto@soul.apk.net) - AOL IM: MicroBerto
Berto
DigitalBlasphemy is an awesome site, and well worth the money that he asks. I purchased a membership several months ago and have not been disappointed. :)
---
SourceForge Programmer Type - http://sourceforge.net
---
Drew Streib, dtype.org
If you're looking for more really nifty backgrounds, an excellent place to start is www.digitalblasphemy.com. Unfortunately you have to pay to get at the entire collection, but he has put up quite a few backgrounds for free. Some will blow you away. Very cool.
Visualize whirled peas.
It's all PROPAGANDA's fault that the Net is so full of Geocoties homepages with unbearable backgrounds with pictures of Johm Smith's cat. If I see another une of those I'll go nuts.
aww nuts. propaganda backgrounds were the purtiest backgrounds on the net. it's sad to see them disappear. but you know sometimes there's so much beauty in the world that i just have to go read /. or some thing like. damn this memory. oh well. linux wallpapers nothing too, they look just as nice on win2k background.
-dennis the kid
Why is he making an effort to distance himself from VA?
That really sucks, ive just lately dicovered Propaganda and their fantastic textures... at least we still get to mesmerize ourselves looking at the past volumes... :)
-guil
No point putting a dead link in an article, I guess...
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous...
You can't drop out of the game making wild accusations like this. Nobody knows whether you deserve sympathy or if you should be ignored when you don't follow up with more concrete information -- you really do just sound like a whiner. If you actually do have a legitimate complaint, you may as well just stick your head in the toilet and gargle than post something like this.
I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation
On archived articles, you can jump directly to post 101 by appending #101 to the URL.
/00/02/18/205232.shtml#101
Try http://slashdot.org/articles
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Canard: a false or unfounded repor
I think it's a great decision for Bowie to end Propaganda. Honestly, I don't believe most of you deserve all the effort that actually went into it.
So.. bitch, moan, and whine. Bowie made a stand against being screwed over, which is a lot more than you wannabe geeks would ever do. Thank you and goodnight!
This thread might also shed some light on the controversy. Check out article #43 and below, with a rather interesting perspective on the current state of affairs in that part of the community.
What!? That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard! Open source art? That is taking fanaticism to a new level! There is a very fundamental difference between source code and art. Code is based primarily on functionallity pragmatism and efficency. Art is asthetics. A non-consolodated viewpoint, or group contribution would level the art to the sort of over-processed meaningless crap that can be found in everyones favorite M$ OS.
Well if this isn't a joke, then the site is obviously shut down. He says they will be 'publically available elsewhere' but I think he's leaving where that is exactly up to us. Does anybody have all/any of the volumes that they could put up somewhere? Or does anyone know of anywhere else (other than the original site) where they are available? If no one else is interested in setting this up, but you have some of the volumes, email them to me at newlin@aesention.com . If I get them all I will set it up._ __________
____________________________________________
All circuits busy.
I think it's incredibly funny myself.
_______________________________________________
All circuits busy.
thanks for the tip.. i agree with you that it makes much more sense for there to be one site doing this instead of two. if the community can pool its talents into larger projects it will accomplish more.
_______________________________________________
All circuits busy.
Being inspired and motivated by someone else's design is quite different from stealing their code.
you can't find anything but ass-kissing karma whores at +2
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
oh i get it, but i think anyone who is browsing at +2 is a fucking idiot
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
It'd be kewl if Rob would use his newfound /. influence to get this story posted on redherring.com or something like it - I believe /. owes it to its community to use the influence that community has created to further the Open Source Movement, and would guess by virtue of past postings that Rob would agree...whaddya think, Rob? I know I have had propoganda and digitalblasphemy bookmarked for wuite some time. Customization is important, as it allows us our ounce of personality on our work boxes (at least in my case).
*Honestly, if you force yourself to smile, your mood does improve - worth trying once, no?*
Or at least those last two volumes? Seriously! I really liked the last couple of volumes. They were very different from Bowie's normal stuff, but they were still very cool- one has been my background for a couple of weeks. I'd love to get my hands on those last two sets before they disappear forever... please take out the SPAM and drop me a note...
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
Didn't Segfault and some other sites (UserFriendly?) "close their doors" last year due to some random lawsuits on *dun dun dun!* April 1st? Coincedence, or conspiracy? If you were wise, I'd take this with a grain of salt.
I just deleted all of Propaganda because I needed some disk space. I knew I'd be able to download it when I wanted it again. Anyone know of a mirror site?
Nope. It's 404ed
My journal has hot
Maybe you don't as much as you think you do.
Ok thanks. I found it here, and it is indeed inflammatory. Let's not insist on this.
I strongly believe that trying to be clever is detrimental to your health. -- Linus Torvalds
heres the link : ... poag was having ego problems with VA. its a collection of wallpaper an stuff..nothing i'd consider real important, but it was probably to some people. i wish poag would get off his high horse and quit bitchin about VA. ok..so he got screwed over at sourceforge..but so what ? VA open sourced sourceforge anyway.
http://propaganda.themes.org/
its dead now
Granted, this may not be the instant satisfaction all-on-a-silver-plater style that the web tends to foster these days. But I'm sure this kind of adversity will build character.
Ok, so I followed the link for dirt on Poag. I can't say that there is much incriminating there though. There are some OS flames, and some general rudeness, but nothing really out of place. That stuff goes on all the time, and taken out of context they don't really mean much. The only thing I really considered offensive were the two instances of apparent gay bashing, which makes him seem a bit immature. But for the most part the other quotes seem sort of innocuous. So perhaps he's flip, given to colorful language, and has some strong views on things. Anything /other/ than that?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Before it was at propaganda.themes.org, it was at propaganda.system12.com, which is 404'd too. system12.com has the default Apache page. Its still registered under the name Propaganda, with nameservers at VA Linux, so who knows what its status is..
I really never had much use for the wallpaper (neat, but I'd rather my XServer spend it's cycles rendering what I'm working on, not the background) but I loved the story! It's a shame he won't be keeping that story up to date: Maybe that's what we need, a OSS version of the story of Propaganda, like the old "Never ending stories" we used to have back in the BBS days. (You mean there was something before the Internet, Papa Smurf? Yes you little whippersnapper, let me tell you about when we only had 300 baud, and we were thankful!....)
www.eFax.com are spammers
I'm a firm believer in the fact that Propaganda is mostly just the same few basic core designs. Everyone always goes wild over it, and I honestly can't see why. It's all the same lot of swirling patterns in different colors, and to be honest, it gets mad repetitive.
Not all of Propaganda is bad, it's just not deserving fo the praise it constantly receives.
Oh, and marking this as "flamebait" would probably be a good way of enforcing my point, which is that the whole damn Linux/Slashdot community is blindly in love with Propaganda and doesn't want to hear otherwise.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
A quick check to propaganda.themes.org gives you a 404 error. Either this is the truth, or a April Fool's joke taken to the max.
Plankeye
Who the hell told Carrot Top he was funny?
Just a little note all archived stories don't let you access one comment it's all or nothing.
But thanks for the inital tip!
Aaron "PooF" Matthews
E-mail: aaron@fish.pathcom.com
To mail me remove "fish."
ICQ: 11391152
Quote: "Success is the greatest revenge"
If this turns out NOT to be YAAFJ(tm) (Yet Another
April Fools Joke), feel free to drop a note to
UFO -
I'm quite sure we can find someone to continue
the work.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
The thread it links to is very informative.
Part of the problem with open source/free software is that
authors and artists need to find another motivation besides
money. A project is fun for a while, but once it passes the
point of being enjoyable for its own sake it becomes a real
drag to continue working on it. In addition, your ego tends to
take a hit every time someone writes to complain about your
project (no one writes when your project is going well; I'm as
guilty of this as anyone else which is why I'm writing now).
I guess what I'm saying is that we should be as supportive
during the positive phases of a project as we are during the
negative phases. Open source/free software is made for US as
well as the author, and anything other than support and
-positive- criticism ruins the fun of working on a project.
And, after all, if you take money and fun out of the equation,
what incentive is left?
Thank you for the free eye-candy Bowie. The effort you have
put into making our desktops cooler is much appreciated.
I'm a Propaganda addict. I've got Volume 12 on my Linux box and Vol 14 on my Mac. I've read the site religiously for over a year. And I hope it's shut down, now.
I have to say with complete candor that Bowie's replacement Asmodean just couldn't cut it. I only saw his first release, but it was pitifully small and the tiles were ugly. I'd rather see the site go into stasis than downhill.
What the hell is propaganda? Where is the link? Where is the background information?
----------
"They misunderestimated me." --George W Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
... which is why he left themes.org. Sourceforge is owned by VA, so this would defeat the purpose of leaving in the first place.
_________________
rooooar
I present my humble solution.
I am in the preliminary stages of setting up a site to distribute the Propaganda volumes. But I want to do more than that. It has been pointed out that there is a serious lack of quality, readily available, background images. A site like themes.org but for background images has been proposed, and I even thought about that myself before seeing the post. So I will be building it. I just don't know what to call it yet. (How about 'Slashback - Backgrounds for Nerds. Colors that matter'?) If you have any suggestions, e-mail me.
If you are interested in helping me out, either by helping me design the site, maintain the site (I want to use Slashcode to run a news front end, and I'm not sure how I want to distribute the files yet), or by making some cool background images to be distributed e-mail me.
Hopefully we can work together to solve this problem.
Kirn Malinus
a.k.a. Nicholas Newlin
_______________________________________________
All circuits busy.
--Ben
Bowie| I'll make this short and sweet.. I dont like long drawley boring thank yous, and theres much fun to be had.. :) /msg him and tell him he kicks royal carpeted and jeweled ass. ...anyway.. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) You're gonna se *alot* of new things come out of Propaganda soon, and the tradition will continue. :) :) Its been one hell of a run. :) :)
Rahga| Annoucements from Bowie, followed by punch an pie!
Bowie| 10 months ago..I sat down on the corner of Park and Speedway infront of a Subway restaraunt royally pissed off.
Bowie| Just rampantly pissed.
Bowie| Met up with my best friend for lunch that day, and talked about what the hell I was gonna do.. I needed something to occupy myself with.
Bowie| That guy is Nach0, by the way.
Bowie|
Bowie| Bri said to me..
Bowie| "You know...You should just pick one thing and do it."
Bowie| "Cuz if you dont.."
Bowie| "...You're gonna forget what its like to complete anything."
Bowie| And so I did.
Bowie| Propaganda was originally launched on a 56K modem with a dynamic IP host..Every 8 hours, the IP would chnace because i'd get kicked off my ISP, and the DNS would have to propogate before anyone could get on the site.
Bowie| I worked, and I worked, and I worked.
Bowie| Got a lucky break for Christmas last year.. Rob and Hemos (who doesnt suck) announced the opening of my site, which kept the Tx light on my modem locked solid for 3 days straight.
Bowie| Well, to sum it up..
Bowie| 14 volumes, 730+ images, a quarter of a million visitors and an estimate *half billion* tiles in distribution later......
Bowie| (yes, 500,000,000 tiles plus)
Bowie| its time for me to stop.
Bowie| Give somebody else a chance.
Bowie| Pass the tradition along..
Bowie| While Propaganda is still my project..and always will be my little pet.. the creative control behind the project is now in the hands of Naru Sundar at CalTech..Asmodean to many of you.
Bowie| I wouldnt dare hand over the project if I felt it was going to suck the instant I let it go. I've seen that happen..trust me.
Bowie| This aint the case.
Bowie| That 730 figure should top out over a thousand before the end of the year..hehe
Bowie| Anyway..
Bowie| I know i'm forgetting alot of people...Rob, Hemos, Scoop, Trae, David and all the other guys at t.o/VA who've helped me.. Bri, Kristen, my folks.
Bowie| Its the community that makes it work, not me.
Bowie| Thanks a shitload, guys.
Bowie| Nuff with the smalltalk. Lets see some goodies.
For more info on the beef with VA, check out this story, and check comments #101, #121, #122, and #126.
incidentally, its strange that when i click on a comment id, i just get a blank page instead of the comment..
Propaganda has been my sole sore for wallpapers of late, and if this truly isn't a April Fool's, it will be sad to see it go. Hopefully someone is as artsy as the old maintainers to provide these types of wallpapers in the future.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
It seems that Bowie is trying to suggest that it's all Naru Sundar's (the new maintainer) fault that Propaganda is "languishing", and so must be killed. The way I see it, he didn't have time to make more backgrounds, and so he got someone else to maintain the site and continue making backgrounds. Most probably that guy as well didn't have enough time in his hands to keep making backgrounds. And now Bowie is not only stopping his so-called "project", but he's removing the two volumes Naru had spent time to create, plus blaming him for the site's "demise". And judging from the article and his comments on other articles regarding Propaganda, methinks Bowie is a tad too arrogant about this "contribution" to the world. I liked the backgrounds, both his and Naru's, but his attitude has space for improvement. I mean, calling the last two volumes (Naru's) "less than steller" was downright rude.
Bowie, if you are reading this, calm down and stop being so protective of your "project". How about keeping the site up (wherever it may be) and allow other people to contribute, sort of like themes.org.
------------------
Loban Amaan Rahman ==> Anagram of ==> Aha! An Abnormal Man!
At the time I submitted this post to Slashdot, Propaganda was still up and running. That was around 11:30 PM last night. I went to bed shortly after that.
On the splash page, I put a little graphic which did a wonderful job of explaining how I felt about things.. Specifically, about what VA did to the people I worked with, myself, and those of you who actually supported the site. The lyrics from an old song by the Police, called "Murder By Numbers".
Clicking on the graphic then displayed a series of emails I had recieved from someone at VA Linux Systems from between April and May of 1999. A few of you know who I'm talking about, and thats fine. The bottom line is, that person knows who he is, and he has to live with himself. Thats all that matters.
Apparently, VA didn't like the fact that I had this sort of thing on public display, so, my site was basically destroyed by VA sometime between midnight and 9:00 AM when I woke up.
I don't have login access to the site anymore, nor do I want access. In addition to losing my login, all the materials that were once there are now gone. Artwork included. All of it. Gone.
If this doesn't underscore what i've been saying all along, I really don't know what more I can do to show you people. VA is a company willing to destroy a year and a half's worth of my work to prevent you from seeing a handful of emails which show you what kind of company they are on the inside.
The Linux community isn't the same anymore because of companies like VA, and what they're doing to us. It makes me sick. So sick, I refuse to even be associated with it. They can rot as far as I'm concerned. I'm out.
My sincerest thanks to all of you guys who were honestly thankful for all the work that went into the project, and took the time to write me tonight. or tossed a reply here.
(ignore the signature, btw. havent gotten around to changing it quite yet)
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Wasn't the solution to this problem posted a few days ago? The Unmaintained Free Software Open Source project is your answer. It would help out UFO a lot too, to get such a high-profile site on there.
darren
Cthulhu for President!
(darren)