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The End Of The Road For Magnetic Hard Drives?

Phase Shifter wrote to us about the limits of conventional hard drives, which Scientific American is discussing. The article talks about the history of hard drives, and why sometime soon, due to the limitations of the superparamagnetic effect, we will need to find a new storage type. It's a cool background read on hard drives and what goes into them.

45 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. Physical Size of disk is not important! by wangi · · Score: 2

    OK, we are going to have to find a new technology because they're going to hit a limit on increasing drive density... Ummm, no.

    To double storage capacity it is not essential to double density - you could double the physical size of disk (or add another).

    Just because they cannot get smaller doesn't mean they get ditched - Want double the storage, get double the number of disks...

    1. Re:Physical Size of disk is not important! by puppet10 · · Score: 2

      By adding disks or inceasing size instead of increasing data density the costs per MB go up considerably.

      The point is how to get the most storage for the lowest cost.

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      -------- This space intentionally left blank --------
    2. Re:Physical Size of disk is not important! by Detritus · · Score: 2

      Increasing the diameter of the disk makes it more difficult for the head positioning servo-mechanisms to keep the head over the track. You would have to reduce the track density and/or the spindle speed.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    3. Re:Physical Size of disk is not important! by john_many_jars · · Score: 2
      Currently, HD size is going up exponentially (a percentage increase). Adding more HDs is a linear increase. In the short run, you get a better return, but in the long run you get a bad return on investment.

      So, who really needs 1 TB of storage? (At current rate increases of doubling every 9 mos, this should be in desktops in 4.5 years, another 7 for 1,000 TB) I mean, there is only so much recorded music. 1 TB is about 250,000 MP3s. At 4 minutes a tune, that's about 2 years of solid music (no sleeping).

      Digital images? that should be about 10M in 1 TB. If you spend 1 minute average on each one, that's 20 yrs of uninterrupted viewing.

      Movies? About 2-4GB for each, 1TB is around 250 moview, 10TB is 2500 movies. (That's about 1 yr solid movie enjoyment.

      So with just 12 TB, you have 23 solid years of entertainment (assuming you have a job and sleep--that xlates to 69 years). Further, this assumes that data compression and storage models do not advance. So, in 6 years a PC off the shelf may have the ability to store everything to entertain you for a lifetime.

      As for the future of entertainment, it may change to use the full capacity of vast hd space. Until CAVE technology is in mass production, I don't see it happenning.

    4. Re:Physical Size of disk is not important! by King+Babar · · Score: 2
      So with just 12 TB, you have 23 solid years of entertainment (assuming you have a job and sleep--that xlates to 69 years). Further, this assumes that data compression and storage models do not advance. So, in 6 years a PC off the shelf may have the ability to store everything to entertain you for a lifetime.

      Well, my comment is coming in late, but better late than never. I think you're definitely on the right track (heh, heh). Raw storage capacity, just like raw processor speed, is quickly becoming a much less important issue for personal uses.

      I mean, you think those numbers are huge, consider text: without compression, and with almost 100% formatting overhead, 1 TB would store hundreds of years of reading material. In other words, textbooks for any field of endeavor ever, all the classics, tons of science fiction (if everything were printed out)...

      So the problem, as we already realize with the that puny artifact called the World Wide Web, is what the heck are you going to do about indexing, querying, and searching. Advances in those domains will very quickly dwarf the contributions of merely higher capacity or performance. Unfortunately, these are very, very hard problems.

      --

      Babar

  2. Bubble Memory by AppyPappy · · Score: 2

    I did a report in college on bubble memory. Wave of the future. Got a B. Bubble memory got the boot.

    --

    If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem

    1. Re:Bubble Memory by Detritus · · Score: 2

      There is still a need for large capacity, non-volatile memory devices that do not have moving parts. Disk drives are too sensitive to shock, temperature extremes and low air pressure. I've read that mountaintop astronomical observatories (higher than 10,000 feet) have problems with disk drive reliability.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  3. What's next in storage? by Mr.roboto · · Score: 2

    Without the common "thin film" type data storage we've been with for so long (MFM started major production around 83?) what will we be switching to next. There have been a few /. articles about such stuff, I'm too lazy to go and get some links, but they're there. Either way, optical storage is the future. Fof instance, there was a /. article talking about being able to have a CD that held 140 GB of data, and a roll of scoth tape being able to hold 10 GB of data. Another possibility is RAID will become common, allowing the easy use of multiple drives. I imagine this will be the temporary solution, as the above two optical solutions are a long ways away from being seen at your local PC store.

    --
    Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
  4. Same old same old... by dillon_rinker · · Score: 5

    A Brief History of Hard Drives
    (a la Book-A-Minute).

    Scientists: OH NO! Hard drives can't get any better!

    Engineers: Wait! Your science is WRONG! (Writes some new equations).

    Computer industry: You have SAVED us!

    Geeks: YAY!

  5. But last week... by LocalYokel · · Score: 2
    we were reading promises of one TB per square cm! OK, I might be exaggerating, but the point is the same.

    Unlike other computer technologies, the hard disk market consistently finds some revolutionary way to make their products faster, bigger, and cheaper, while staying in business. With that kind of competition, I don't think the hard drive is going away...

    --

    --

    --
    E2 IN2 IE?

  6. Optical 3D harddrives by roman_mir · · Score: 3

    Xerox is sponsoring a research of 3D storage devices that can manage tens of thousands of gigabits in a volume of sugar cube at the University of Toronto

  7. Performance issues. by roman_mir · · Score: 2

    What to do? If I needed a RAID system that would have access time of RAM or even faster. In fact it should be possible to do even with the current technology, the rotation speed of a hard drive should be incremented by about 100 times and the number of tracks should be decreased by 10 times (making the bits on the platter much larger, let's say by 10 times) the distance between the tracks should stay almost the same (less radial travel time for the head) maybe increased by 2-5 times. I want this sucker to have up to 50 reader heads on each platter, let's make the platters larger in size and all. This should be able to bring the speed up to match the performance of today's RAM speeds, of-course the capacity on one such hard drive will go down by about 10 times (so instead of 9GB it would be about 900MB, then put something like 50 of those together into a RAID system and we have about 40GB of data with access time of RAM. The cost of one drive would go up due to the better mechanical part of the drive (liquid bearings instead of ball bearings, higher rotational speeds and the technology to combat air turbulence) but it also would go down due to the lower resolution of a platter and larger bit sizes.

    This is EVIL EVIL EVIL idea HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAAAA!

    1. Re:Performance issues. by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 2

      The access time of RAM is about A MILLION times faster than any hard drive (that's 6 orders of magnitute, not a figure of speech). Any device based on moving parts is not going to see that kind of improvement, no matter how you trick it out.

      -B

    2. Re:Performance issues. by John+Carmack · · Score: 2

      You can't just choose to rotate a drive platter 100 times faster. It may be remotely possible to make a 50,000 rpm drive in the near term, but 100x faster (and larger diameter) is WAY beyond the limits of known materials. It could also double as a dandy KE tank killer or space launch system if it could actually be built...

      The limitation isn't the ability to read the data off the platter, it is the ability of the platter to not break into shrapnel.

      John Carmack

    3. Re:Performance issues. by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      The fastest RAM that can be bought today has no faster than 5nanoseconds access time.
      The fastest HD that can be bought today has no faster than 5miliseconds access time.

      5nanoseconds is 1000 X 5milliseconds

      That's order of magnitude 3 not 6.

      In fact until about 4 years ago the difference between RAM and HD access time was not that dramatic, no more than 40 times.

    4. Re:Performance issues. by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 2

      Ummm...no. Milli is 10^-3, Nano is 10^-9. The difference being 10^6, or ONE MILLION (pinky touching corner of mouth).

      Here's some random freshman physics class notes I found if you don't belive me:
      http://feynman.physics.lsa.umich.edu/~myers/126/ notes/Metric.html

      -B

  8. Hard drives technology doing just fine, thank you by fnj · · Score: 3

    Hard drive technology has progressed at least as fast as other computer technologies. Let's compare the present day to the day of the original IBM PC XT, some 17 years ago.

    Processor, 4.77 MHz -> 600 MHz: 126 times
    (let's say 1000 times, because the P III does a lot more with each MHz than the 8088)

    RAM, 64 KB -> 64 MB: 1024 times

    Modems, 9600 baud -> 56K: 6 times
    (even 1.5M for cable modem is only 156 times)

    Hard disk drives, 10 MB -> 20 GB: 2000 times

    Hmmmm, seems like the much-poo-poo'ed electro-mechanical technology has easily kept pace with the straight electronic technologies, including the breathtaking advances in chip density.

    Now, when it looks like CPU speed and RAM density really ARE about to reach a plateau for a while, or at least lower its slope of advance, hard disk technology is poised to really rocket ahead. Look at the news from IBM research, foretelling VAST advances in the fairly near future.

  9. Why Bubble Memory never went anywhere by Roy+Ward · · Score: 3

    I don't have a link to this info handy, but my recollection is that bubble memory was _way_ too slow - and hard drives just kept getting better ...

    It seems to be a bit of a trend in this industry that whatever works early on gets a lot of resources put into incrementally improving it and making it cheap, such that competing technologies have to be _hugely_ better to have any chance of taking over.

    That is (IMO) partly why:
    - we still use hard drives,
    - CPU's still use CMOS rather than one of the faster switching methods,
    - the x86 architecture is still dominant,
    - the UNIX model is the base of nearly all operating systems.

    There may be potentially 'better' technologies than these out there, but there has been so much engineering and optimisation gone into these technologies that it is really hard for anything to compete.

    The case of the Exponential PowerPC is an example of that - it used ECL rather than CMOS to get substantially higher clock speeds, but before it had really got up to speed, the incremental improvements in CMOS had passed made it look less attractive, and Exponential was dead.

    I expect someone to reply to this and say how much better CMOS (or whatever) is better than anything else ... but at least some of that will be due to the massive research that has gone into making the current technology work well.

    1. Re:Why Bubble Memory never went anywhere by sec · · Score: 2

      IIRC, ECL logic has problems with high power consumption. So it's not at all clear that ECL is an improvement rather than a differing tradeoff.

      It's interesting to note, though, that CMOS had almost exactly the opposite problem when it first came out -- it was slow, but had extremely low power consumption. It also was dreadfully static-sensitive. But, CMOS itself managed to displace the older NMOS technology in the early 80's, so these things can happen.

  10. Tape supply. by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 3
    I'm off to the store. I have to stock up on my scotch tape supply.

    Since everyone will be replacing their hard drive with rolls of scotch tape, I'll corner the market!

  11. Hard Drives, Modems, Palimsets and other trivia by jd · · Score: 5
    Once upon a time, it was said that modems could never exceed 9,600 bps, as the phone lines couldn't cope with higher than 9,600 baud.

    Then, one day, someone realised that - hey! If you throw away the assumption that baud == bps, you can actually drive up speeds to 56Kb/s!

    Then, as modems went up in speed, the same engineers moaned and groaned. The 56Kb/s limit was near, and without a total rewiring of the phone network, an act of Congress in the US (an act of God elsewhere in the world), and more money than anyone had, the 56K barrier would never be breached! Calamity!

    Then, one day, another bright spark realised that if you had modems at the junctions, you could shove REALLY high-speeds down the wires without either Congress -or- God having to do anything. (Much to the relief of both.)

    The Doomsday Crowd, defeated once more, lurked on the fringes. Until, one day, redemption! Hard Disks can't pass a certain density!

    This, of course, is as bogus as all the other claims. If it's possible to read the past ten writes on a given sector, then you can you can increase the density of the disk by AT LEAST an order of magnitude. You just have to remember to read/write all ten layers at one time, and you're fine.

    Then, of course, there's no rule which says you have to use 2-state logic. It's easy, but it's not mandatory. Magnetic fields can have any orientation and any strength. So long as the maximum strength isn't so high that you get bleeding, you're fine. Recognise 256 possible states (using any combination you like of orientation and strength), and you've "encoded" a single byte into a bit - a x8 gain in disk capacity.

    Combine the two, and you've increased the capacity by over 80 times! This can be increased still further, by increasing your ability to scan over-written layers, and by increasing your ability to distinguish magnitudes and orientations. You have two degrees of freedom for rotating the magnetic field, which means that by doubling the ability to distinguish, you quadrouple the number of possibilities available.

    The scientists may be correct about the density, but the density is NOT the only variable open to hard drive manufacturers. In the future, it may become one of the least significant, as others are explored.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Hard Drives, Modems, Palimsets and other trivia by jlv · · Score: 2

      > Then, one day, someone realised that - hey! If
      > you throw away the assumption that baud == bps,
      > you can actually drive up speeds to 56Kb/s!

      Excellent comment; too bad it is wrong.

      Baud has not been the same as bps since the debut of 1200 bps modems in the early 80s. For instance, the good ol' Bell 212A standard for 1200 bps modems uses 300 baud with 4 bits per baud.

      John

    2. Re:Hard Drives, Modems, Palimsets and other trivia by Detritus · · Score: 2

      The Bell 212A modem used differential PSK with four phases, encoding 2 bits per symbol at 600 baud and 1200 BPS.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  12. Imminent death of the hard drive predicted! by jht · · Score: 2

    Yet again. Densities may not increase forever, but when you can cram 40+ GB on a single platter, just add a couple of platters and make the drive a little thicker. Anyone remember full-height 3.5" drives? Maybe they'll make a brief comeback once density plateaus.

    I'm much more concerned about two other relevant factors:

    1: The I/O bottleneck inherent to IDE and SCSI interfaces. All this horsepower, and all this storage, and we can't transfer it fast enough.

    2: In case nobody's noticed, tape drive technology has gotten faster, but it has not kept up anywhere near hard drives from a capacity standpoint. In a network server setting, this can be a real problem! The data sizes and drive sizes are growing, tape speeds have increased somewhat, but the network speeds are still mostly at 100 Mbps or slower, and the backup window times are shrinking quickly. That's a bigger problem. We need faster interfaces and bigger tapes - or cheaper jukeboxes.

    - -Josh Turiel

    --
    -- Josh Turiel
    "2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
    1. Re:Imminent death of the hard drive predicted! by stevelinton · · Score: 2

      Both these problems are really economic, not technological, in the sense that solutions are out there, they just cost a lot more than the big disks.

      If you look at expensive server systems, let alone at mainframes, they already have solutions for these problems -- for I/O you do pretty well with U160W SCSI and 66MHz/64bit PCI; for backups, you put your storage and your backup device on a SAN, for which Gigabit ethernet is pretty much entry-level, and your backup device is a tape jukebox (or you just mirror your disks heavily and forget conventional tape backups).

      The anomaly is that top-end disk technology has come out very cheap, thanks I guess to the huge volumes that are shipping, and so you have 2000 dollar PCs with disks that really "belong" in 10000 dollar servers.

    2. Re:Imminent death of the hard drive predicted! by Tassach · · Score: 3
      It's kind of hard to have off-site storage of your RAID-5 array. Relying on RAID-5 will protect you against a drive dying - but that is not the only failure mode you have to worry about. Someone could accidently blow away or corrupt the file system; now you have a nice redundant copy of a blank filesystem. A secretary could accidentally delete a month's worth of files - relying on RAID, you'd have no way to recover from this. Your building could burn down - without off-site backups, your business could go under. The data stored on the machine can be FAR more valuable than the machine itself. The value of the data determines how paranoid your backup strategy has to be.


      "The axiom 'An honest man has nothing to fear from the police'

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  13. New storage tech could kill software companies by RobotSlave · · Score: 2

    If cheap+fast permanent storage arrives quickly, then Oracle, for one, will be in deep trouble.

    Durable storage without moving parts could easily be three orders of magnitude faster than magnetic disk tech.

    With permanent storage that fast, PostgreSQL 7.0 would perform on a par with, if not faster than, Oracle 8i. All the work Oracle has done to optimise around magnetic disks would be rendered worthless or worse-- imagine how annoying it could be for a newly hired developer to slog through all of that newly-obsolete disk "wizardry" just to fix a bug...

    1. Re:New storage tech could kill software companies by RobotSlave · · Score: 2
      "if you want your Oracle Database to go fast, you jam as much of it as you can into RAM..."

      No, sir.

      That only speeds things up if your database is read-only! Every db write must be written to disk immediately to satisfy the "Durability" requirement of RDBMS design. Combine Durability with the problem of Concurrency, which Oracle solves with separate rollback segments (PostgreSQL now uses versioned records), and Oracle is even more disk-dependent (i.e. if you want speed, you need your rollback segment(s) on a separate disk).

      If you've got a pile of RAM and a bunch of data in Oracle that you're only interested in reading, then the best way to do it is to take a snapshot of your data out of oracle, stuff it into a berkeley DB, and then keep that in RAM-- no RDBMS will ever be as quick as a berkley DB if all you're interested in doing is reading a bunch of static data.

      Much of Oracle's success has been in areas that they share with OS designers-- filesystem design, memory management, process control. When Larry Ellison spouts off on one topic or another and implies that Oracle should be thought of as an OS, he's not engaging in hubris-- he's just reflecting the problems that his engineers have to face.

      If you're a CS grad student, and you want to do an interesting open source project, try designing a generic database filesystem for Linux/BSD-- (sqlfs, perhaps?). An fs with so many constraints (typed data, stored in records, flushed to disk before returning a successful write, presenting consistent views to concurrent access, etc.) would be more difficult to implement than a traditional fs, but it would also present many more avenues for optimization. At the end of the project, you'd have a pretty useful abstraction layer, and the free RDBMS folks could potentially spend their time implementing new features, instead of putting so much work into reinventing the wheel.

      None of this ever occurred to me until I had to install Oracle one day-- I'd been used to using free dbs on debian, where installation is essentially transparent, and you can just start hacking away on SQL immediately. Installing Oracle, on the other hand, was a lot like the first time I installed Linux back in '95-- it was rediculously time-consuming, but when I was done, I understood many of the design principles of the system, not just how to use it.

    2. Re:New storage tech could kill software companies by King+Babar · · Score: 2
      If you're a CS grad student, and you want to do an interesting open source project, try designing a generic database filesystem for Linux/BSD-- (sqlfs, perhaps?). An fs with so many constraints (typed data, stored in records, flushed to disk before returning a successful write, presenting consistent views to concurrent access, etc.) would be more difficult to implement than a traditional fs, but it would also present many more avenues for optimization. At the end of the project, you'd have a pretty useful abstraction layer, and the free RDBMS folks could potentially spend their time implementing new features, instead of putting so much work into reinventing the wheel.

      An interesting side light of something like this is that the project would eventually probably end unix text processing as we know it. The power of unix utilities to treat normal text files as quick and dirty databases is legendary. If you're just warped enough, you can see the translation of many unix utilities and pipelines into the project/restrict/join framework of relational database theory (which, alas, is not quite the same thing as any RDBMS).

      Another interesting point is that I could swear that I read about a project to bring a peristent (and ultra-secure) computing environment to Linux, based on a research project done at Penn. But, of course, now I can't recover the URL of the project or what it really did. :-(

      --

      Babar

  14. Speed, size, reliability by garver · · Score: 3

    Size is the only dead end in site for hard drives.

    • Speed. The average hard drive is spinning at 7200 RPM nowadays. At this speed, there is an average latency of 4.6ms just to spin the track under the head. You can't do much about this except spin the disk faster. At 10000 and 15000 (thanks Seagate), you still have 3ms and 2ms, respectively. This is on top of any time needed to move the head itself. With most access times <8ms in the low end and <5ms in the high end, this ceiling isn't too far off. Sure you can spin the disk faster, but this gets expensive (money, energy, and heat).
    • Size. I think the article addresses this quite nicely. If we hit the ceiling here, we can increase the surface area. But this again gets expensive in all ways and precludes a 100 GB laptop drive in a 1.5 in width and 1 watt power consumption. You know you want it.
    • Reliability. To me, this is the biggest problem. Hard drives are the most relied upon moving part in a computer and yet are the first thing to go in most systems (followed closely by the power supply, who's death is usually hastened by a power hungry hard drive spinning up and down). RAID (or similar) can tackle this, but is expensive in all ways and requires the user's attention.
    Finally, I won't argue that hard drives will meet their doom in 5 years, hell we don't even have a suitable replacement yet (only stuff in research). I just figure they will be a story that I will tell to my grand children.
  15. Capacity isn't the issue any more by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 2
    Realistically, how many people need vast increases in capacity? Sure, there are uses for larger persistent random access storage devices, but the number of people who actually keep (legal) video on their machines is fairly small. Who else has a use for -- much less a need for -- 2^37 Byte platters? (2^40 bits = 2^37 bytes ~ 100 GBytes effective capacity.)

    The thing which would be valuable to consumers would be a sharp increase in data throughput. It's true that disk drive capacity has grown faster than CPU speed over the past few decades -- but data transfer rate has not. The result? The CPU is data-starved, both by the bus and the swap speed.

  16. Long road ahead by AaronW · · Score: 2

    According to a friend of mine who works in the industry, the leading limitation on density is seeking from track to track and remaining locked to the track. There is some new head technology coming down the pipe which should vastly improve hard drive densities. One of the most difficult things to do is servo the heads. This new technology should eliminate this limitation (sorry, I won't go into details).

    --
    This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
  17. Null results have a place in engineering too. by Robert+Link · · Score: 3

    Once upon a time, it was said that modems could never exceed 9,600 bps, as the phone lines couldn't cope with higher than 9,600 baud. Then, one day, someone realised that - hey! If you throw away the assumption that baud == bps, you can actually drive up speeds to 56Kb/s!

    Mmm hmm. And do you think anyone would have gotten around to that realization had someone not observed that the "baud == bps" approach would not work forever?

    Then, as modems went up in speed, the same engineers moaned and groaned. The 56Kb/s limit was near, and without a total rewiring of the phone network ... the 56K barrier would never be breached! Calamity! Then, one day, another bright spark realised that if you had modems at the junctions, you could shove REALLY high-speeds down the wires ...

    Right, but would anyone have bothered to do this had someone not pointed out that you couldn't get higher speeds using the conventional approach?


    The moral of the story is that there is value to pointing out the limitations of current technology because that is what allows us to avoid wasting effort by developing new technologies to replace existing technologies that don't need replacing. Conversely, it helps to anticipate problems in existing technology before they start to limit progress, so that new technologies will be ready by the time those limits are reached. This is not "doomsaying", it is simply having a good understanding of current technology. You have to have a thorough understanding of existing technologies, including their limitations, before you can hope to improve on them.


    -rpl

  18. "fractions of microinches" by superdoo · · Score: 3

    Wow, it really is Scientific American. Down with metric!

  19. 73GB now available by gbnewby · · Score: 2
    Just a month ago I complained on /. that the 73GB drives Seagate talked about in October/November 1999 were still not out. Now they are.

    73GB, Ultra-160 SCSI (160Mbps), 10K RPM. About $1650 available almost anywhere (except in Seagate's online store. Go figure.). Quantum's got essentially the same drives now tho I didn't notice them for sale.

    Do the math: Put, say, 7 of these drives in a $300 external enclosure and you've got over 400GB usable RAID-5 for < $12000! That's $0.03US / MB.

  20. Clarke's Law in Action by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 2

    "When an elderly but distinguished scientist says something is impossible, he is almost surely wrong" - Arthur C. Clarke

    I collect Scientific American, and one of the most fascinating aspects of my collection is the series of articles on why this or that technology won't work or has reached it's limits. The authors that SciAm gets to write it's articles usually fit the definition in Clarke's Law above, and they have invariably been wrong, usually quickly.

    Two examples:
    SciAm published an article in 1947 on why long range ballistic missiles wouldn't work, mostly based on the inability to make the guidance systems accuarate enough. About 5 years later we were deploying them.

    They also published an article in the 1980s on why space-based lasers for strategic defense wouldn't work. I was working in that area at the time, and the problems they raised had already been solved, we just couldn't talk about it because it was classified.

    Here's an approach for increasing magnetic storage capacity I haven't seen elsewhere: Current tape drives are high capacity but slow. They work just like ancient scrolls, unrolling and rolling up on a spool. Think instead like a codex (i.e. a modern book with pages). Have a stack of magnetic sheets arranged like the mess of catalogs at an auto parts place (spines down, pages held to +- 45 degrees of vertical by end holders). Use a static charge to fan out the leaves at the place you want to read, then slip in the read head from above. This gives you 3-D magnetic storage with fast (at least compared to tape) access time.

    Daniel

  21. Optical Drives by dgervais · · Score: 2

    Magnetic Drives have been predicted to fade out long ago. Ever since the late 80's with the optical drives that held ~2gigs, magnetic hd companies struggled against the beliefs of the physicist. Engineers developed newer ways of making magnetic media more efficient, while the optical theories were more effective in the long run, the drive for magnetic media was more prominent, as were the funds. Lets face it....how many people own magnetic media as opposed to optical media. In the hardware industry, if there is funding and money, there is progress. MORAL: Support the optical media foundations around you. They will give you terabytes to loose files instead of gigabytes :-)

  22. We forget so soon... by kwashiorkor · · Score: 2
    Does anyone even remember this article posted by CmdrTaco sometime yesterday (or maybe even the day before?)... about the naval research institute achieveing 400GB/sq. inch ?

    By the time we've met with the capacity of magneto-resistive drives, we'll be moving on to something else. As the article said, thin-film didn't last forever, who/what is saying that MR has to last forever?

    There will be no storage shortage in the future. Who cares about the death of MR... bring on the next generation.

    PS: Imagine how long a surface scan is going to take on one of these babies. Pack a three course meal, and a good book.

    -- kwashiorkor --
    Pure speculation gets you nowhere.

    --
    -- kwashiorkor --
    Leaps in Logic
    should not be confused with
    Jumping to Conclusions.
  23. Re:Levels of Raid by tweakr · · Score: 2

    FYI, here are the general RAID levels:

    Raid 0 - disk mirroring
    Raid 1 - disk striping/no parity
    Raid 4 - hair striping?...no wait, wrong list *hehe*
    Raid 5 - disk striping with parity

    Do you ever feel like you're diagonally parked in a parallel universe?

    --
    Worrying works!! 99% of all the stuff I worry about never happens :)
  24. I do. by mosch · · Score: 2

    Reasons I'd love supermassive, small capacity drives. Imagine buying books, and having them all available on your palm pilot (every o'reilly, right there at your fingertips, with of course every RFC, the entire acm digital library and a few others). Imagine having every movie you own in your pocket, also on your palm pilot, with an adapter so you could watch any movie you already own while you're travelling. Every movie, every cd, uncompressed, full quality. No need for the distortion of mp3 when you have a terabyte in compactflash format :-) The reasons why there isn't any current applications like this, is because it isn't currently feasible. At home I have around 150gigs of storage on my network, most of which is in one RAID cluster. Useless? it seemed so but I keep on finding handy ways to use it. My latest project is storing all my live concert recordings (dat and cd) (yes they're legal), to .shn files so that I can easily spin off copies of them on demand. If you use your imagination, you'll realie that the number of people who keep legal video on their machines is small because it's not generally practical. Consumer-ized special-purpose computers such as the TiVo are changing this. A super-high capacity TiVo like device combined with broadband access and you could start selling movies legally, on-line.
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  25. Remember 1micron limit? by Eric+Green · · Score: 2
    Didn't they used to say that you couldn't make a silicon chip with a less than 1micron feature size because the wavelength of light was too wide to properly expose the die? (Note to newbies -- a silicon chip of that era was basically photo-etched, i.e. a mask was made that was the inverse of the features on the chip, the chip was painted with resist, resist is exposed to light and then after the mask and light are removed an etchant eats away the unexposed portions in order to form features).

    Of course, we know what happened after that -- they quit using visual light, and started using shorter-wavelength beams.

    A friend of mine says "Is tape storage on the way out? It's not keeping up with disk storage!".

    Seagate and HP just introduced a tape drive with 100gb (UNCOMPRESSED) capacity, and they say that they can take that same technology to 250gb native. These LTO drives do this by having oodles of tracks on a tape so that a stretch of tape may have hundreds of tracks in parallel, and by using new tape materials that allow them to make the tape thinner so they can pack more tape into a cartridge. People said linear tape was dead, that helical scan would always be faster and higher capacity, but it appears that conventional wisdom is foiled again...

    I don't know what hard drives are going to be like five years from now, but I do know they're not going to stall, capacity-wise, due to some "inherent" limit. Too many smart people are looking for ways to bypass those limits, either by using some other technology altogether (hmm... photo-sensitive materials??) or by figuring some way around the "limit" using clever application of the underlying physics.

    -E

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    Send mail here if you want to reach me.
  26. Big tape drives by Eric+Green · · Score: 2
    Seagate and HP just introduced their LTO technology that holds 100gb native. Tandberg's SLR-100 holds 50gb native, as does the Exabyte Mammoth II (or does the Mammoth II have 66gb? I'm away from my office, alas, so don't have the specs in front of me). Granted, we're talking about $3,000 tape drives here, in an era where 83gb hard drives cost half as much. But (shrug) fast tape storage devices have always been more expensive than the hard drives they back up, at least in recent memory (I understand it was different back in the 60's).

    I've been looking at the data sheets on some of the big enterprise-class storage systems. We're talking about boxes that have 5 to 15 drives, and attach via fibre channel loop to multiple servers that need to be backed up, and that have hundreds of tapes that they manage via robotics. Yes, I'm working on enhancing the Linux 'mtx' tape library control software to drive these things, though I'll never be able to personally see or test one :-}. There are some interesting challenges to handle with fibre-attached storage, specifically, the one of "who has the robotic arm now?!", but none that are unsolvable. I am confident that no matter how big hard drives get, we'll be able to back them up -- albeit for a price!

    -E

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    Send mail here if you want to reach me.
  27. Fanned tapes by Eric+Green · · Score: 2
    I think you underestimate just how much tape is in today's cartridges. There are 150 meters of tape in a DDS4 cartridge, for example (or is it 180? Doesn't matter, still a lot). That's about 750 feet of tape for the metrically impaired, crammed into a tiny cartridge barely larger than the mini-cassettes occasionally used to record meetings. This tape is ultra-thin and very tightly spooled in order to cram it all into that teeny cartridge. The whole point of tape is storage density -- fitting the most data into the smallest space for the least per-byte cost -- and there's just no room there to slide heads inbetween leaves.

    Tape drive manufacturers are raising capacities via a variety of methods. They are coming up with thinner tape materials so that they can cram more tape into a cartridge (I understand there will be a DDS5 that crams over 200 meters of tape into a tiny 4mm tape cartridge!). They are coming up with new heads that either store data more densely linearly, or that store data more densely vertically (i.e. put more tracks on a tape). They've also been playing with the speed at which data is recorded, and perhaps varying that to adjust to tape quality etc. There are also experiments ongoing with multiple heads and serpentine tapes, though I haven't heard that this is buying anything (easier to have a smaller cartridge and multiple simple drives rather than big complex cartridges and one complex drive). Having seen these guys do so many "impossible" things (they said that DDS4 was impossible!), I've given up on figuring out where it's all going to end, but I do know that traditional tape drives are nowhere near their limits as far as speed and capacity go.

    -E

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    Send mail here if you want to reach me.
  28. This is why FibreChannel is growing by soldack · · Score: 2

    I am working on a FibreChannel-RAID adapter at my job. FibreChannel-RAID answers these questions pretty well..for now.
    1. I/O Bottelneck - Our card does 190 MB per second with 23,000 I/Os per second in non-RAID mode (direct connect). Another good things to do is offload as much as you can to storage processors. This saves the main CPU. Relying on System DMA is a big part of what kills IDE performance. Both SCSI and FibreChannel adapters are DMA Busmasters meaning they can read/write to host memory on their own, without using host processor. Always use hardware RAID (adapter or external/cabinet based) instead of software based. Software based RAID kills processor.
    2. Backup - Various forms of RAID can help here. You can configure things so that there are always at least two copies of your data. This doesn't help for real backup where people need things that were overwritten, like tax records from five years ago. Using RAID arrays of FibreChannel tapes speeds things up quite a bit.
    As for network speeds...you are right about 100 Mbs being too slow. Heck 1 Gbps (or 128 MBps) are still too slow. That is why you use FC arrays that support multi-initiator. Here, multiple hosts are connected to a set of storage. In this model there is no server front-end to the storage share. No network latencies.

    SAN technology is really just starting. Target mode systems (like EMC's storage cabinets) have great possibilities. Simple FC-Adapters can run in this mode as well. In a raw format, they can avoid the OS almost entirely, using it only for initialization and configuration. Backup can be done without any OS interaction.

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    -- soldack
  29. What about multi-TB databases? by soldack · · Score: 2

    These things are becoming more common each day. Data warehousing and SANs will create even more demand. Then you have video-on-demand servers that have full screen digital movies on tap. I am talking about full control video with all your VCR functions of stop, pause, fast forward, rewind, etc. stored remotely and sent to simple cable box. This kind of applications take up lots of space.

    As for a data-starved CPU...not with IDE. IDE controllers use the host CPU for DMA so your CPU is quite busy. SCSI and FibreChannel adapters are busmasters but they are also faster. It is true that today's CPUs can push much harder than today's storage. It is also true that even a 66 Mhz, 64-bit bus is too slow. Interrupt sharing doesn't help either. That is why PCI is on its last legs. PCI-X will not last too long either with InfiniBand on the way.

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    -- soldack