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Linux Drivers For Hollywood Plus DVD Card
Robotech_Master writes: "Someone's written and GPL'd Linux drivers for the Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. Source code available, but very primitive so far -- this is only the very first release. " Looks rough -- anyone been able to get it to work yet?
What is it with "open source" programmers? Now I don't mean this to be flamebait, but are they totally ignorant of anything except for source code? Even after the whole DeCSS fiasco, they are still trying to write code which they should realise will land them in very hot water. When the MPAA gets hold of this then then Mr Johannsen will find himself in trouble with the police faster than RMS can denounce anyone making money off of software.
This sort of attitude may make them "heroes" of the open source movement, but it's not really very sensible is it? I mean who wants to be hassled by the police and then end up in court over some drivers for watching DVDs, a task best left to *gasp*, DVD players. Maybe it's time for programmers to raise their heads from their monitors and venture out into the real world.
We live in a capitalist economy, and corporations are the lifeblood of this economy. They have the right to make money for themselves and their shareholders, and trying to rip them off by "hacking" into their intellectual property is, in the end, harming everyone through the effects on our economy. Good for our corporations is good for all of us at the end of the day. However, since most /.ers seem to hold somewhat socialist tendancies (even though they violently deny it) they tend to think of corporations as the "enemy", even though they all rely on them for everything they do in daily life.
Maybe it's time for them to take a good long look at this situation.
The H+ is probably the best DVD/MPEG decoder board out there for the PC today. If you have a Creative DXR3 board (which is basically a rebranded H+), you'd probably be covered by these drivers as well.
Why do they think this won't be done with Windoze? Isn't DeCSS due to somebody examining the inner workings of a Windoze driver?
If MPAA wants CSS to work, they have to do it in the hardware. The video signal would come out a seperate cable that plugs into the display card that inserts it into the display, probably by using color-keying and an origin that is set by software. They also have to get the display card manufacturers to agree to add MacroVision to any video out signal if this input is enabled.
They have to realize that if the method of descrambling the disk, or the descrambled data itself, is ever in bytes in memory that a hacker can read, their code will be cracked. They can't have both cheap hardware and security.
If they do this, they should have absolutely no qualms about open-source drivers, since the driver is no more powerful than a remote control for a DVD player.
Incorrect. The contracts they sign for CSS specs bar them from releasing any of their hardware specs, CSS related or not. E-mail them and ask them - I did.
Could you really expect any more from the MPAA?
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I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Ok, so they lack tact, but you have to understand that their hands are tied anyways. They can't release the driver specs because CSS decryption for this particular card is accomplished in software e.g. in the driver. Releasing the specs would essentially mean telling people how to crack the CSS algorithm, which, in case you've been living in a cave on Mars for the past year, is verboten. Look at the fervor with which the MPAA is going after obscure people and random Geocities accounts for distributing DeCSS. As a company, with a physical address to recieve subpoenas at and revenue to be sued for, you too would be afraid of MPAA. If Sigma were to release these drivers, MPAA would eat them alive in court.
I don't think they have a bad attitude; they just can't legally do anything about this. On the contrary, I think they have a good attitude, considering that they told you they would support Linux with their next product. That's a lot cooler than most of the companies out there today.
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I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Read my post earlier in this thread. They can't release the drivers because the Sigma card decrypts CSS in software, viz. in the driver itself. Releasing the specs would entail telling the world how to decrypt CSS. We all know how great that went over last time ;)
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I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
well, my interpretation is a little different from yours... greed is working for one's own self-interest. personally, I believe in the concept of "enlightened self-interest".
Lea
nothing wrong with being 'greedy', exactly, it's just a matter of knowing where your interests lie -- and it's possible that they don't.
Lea
I like movies a lot; I'd like DVDs to be free, but even so, I'm not going to perform nasal reduction surgery to spite my face. If you want to, be my guest, but I'd rather enjoy the movies now than engage in a fruitless boycott whose only effect would be to deprive me of the moviewatching experience I so enjoy.
And so, I'll keep watching movies in Windows, or in Linux when a commercial solution comes out, or when the open source drivers mature, and I'm going to put my faith in the courts and the legislatures to do the right thing, misguided though that may be.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Presumably, once they have the drivers ready, they'll come out with more feature-light cards based on the same chipset that can use the same drivers--equivalent to their Hollywood Plus. But I imagine it's easier to write a driver for a card with everything and then take stuff out for subsequent cards than it is to write a driver and then add stuff. So wait a while, maybe they'll make something cheaper. In the mean time, there's always LinDVD...
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
I mean, come on, even if you leave out the people who use standalone players instead of DVDROM drives, and thus have no reason to boycott...well over 90% of the computer people will have Windows. And you can bet they won't be boycotting for Linux.
If I thought it would work, sure I'd boycott. But if I boycott something, it's because I think I'll get results, not out of RMSish idealism. (By the way, it's apathetic.)
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
If that's the reason for not releasing drivers, then it's a really lame reason. They could still release the drivers, without any code, and it would be useful for general MPEG playback.
If it doesn't do CSS in hardware, then it doesn't do CSS in hardware. Big whoop. Release a driver for what the hardware does.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
But we're not asking them to supply a whole DVD player application, just a driver for MPEG coding. If their hardware doesn't undo CSS, then the descrambling would have to be supplied by a someone else. That means that we would be feeding already decrypted MPEG stream into their driver, where the descrambling is done at some earlier point.
So what's the big deal?
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
How does this hurt Sigma Designs or any company that releases DVDs? The software only allows you to *use* hardware which you have already purchased and to *view* movies which you either own or have rented. I would be surprised if Sigma Designs didn't pick up the driver at a later date and release it with their standard driver bundle disk. The only reason that they don't have a Linux driver is due to the cost to them to write and support it.
The problem is that consumers are VERY happy with the actual product. DVD's are great and I love being able to see pretty much and movie letterbox.
Agreed that the packaging (companies and technical trappings) are annoying. But the product itself is fine.
I think that not buying DVD's is not going to get us anything, apart from a 400 year wait for Star Wars to appear on anything but VHS and laserdisk. I think what is much more helpful is buying DVD's right now, but being sure to support hardware for playback that can ignore region controls and disabling macrovision - if those companies get enough money they can help fight against these things. And if they make a lot of money, then MORE companies will see how valuable this is to consumers and release players that do the same thing (I think this is well under way in England)
Look at it this way - if you buy nothing, you are letting the people who do buy DVD's fund a fight against the things you believe in - and you are doing nothing to help.
If you buy DVD players that support disabling region control and then buy DVD's, you may be funding both sides - but at least you fund the proper side to some extent. If you are really fanatical about it just buy used DVD's - then the MPAA gets no additional money at all, and you get a movie that will last longer than one hot afternoon.
The other problem with your approach is that it ignores human nature, and I think history teaches us that ignoring human nature means things will not turn out as you expect or as you want. People want DVD's. They will not stop buying them. Given that, you must figure out how to use that to your advantage instead of trying to stop the unstoppable.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Start another X server at 1024x768. You get to the first using ctrl-alt-f7 and the second at ctrl-alt-f8 (this is assuming 6 virtual consoles, pretty standard on RedHat systems). You will have to play with xinits and startxs, but it works. I play this trick all the time to play Starcraft which requires 640x480x256.
From what I understand, CSS decoding is done partially in software under the dxr3. Creative has been unable to release enough information on the dxr3 for an open source driver, because the company that actually produces the dxr3 - Sigma Designs - can't or won't give up the necessary information, which apparently would include the CSS algorithm. Kind of a moot point now, but they have NDAs to abide by.
Interesting that Sigma would go from all-hardware on the dxr2 to hardware-software on the dxr3, and possibly other cards. You don't think this was done to block development of drivers that could reveal or get around CSS, do ya? Another moot point, considering how DeCSS was developed *coughXINGcough*, though doing it in software lets Sigma make changes as demanded by higher-ups.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
I'm pretty sure that the decryption key and decryption are done in the hardware and output directly to the monitor (assuming it works like my dxr3 decoder card), so RIAA won't have a problem, unless the driver is somehow extracting the video unencrypted.
Since both of the companies refuse to release detailed specifications, the only way to obtain the required information is to investigate the way the Windows software interacts with the card.
Hmm, I wonder if they would be more willing to help out if we asked them for help? You can write to Sigma Designs here and Creative Labs here.
Be sure to keep it polite and to stress how it help their company.
That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
My solution: Stop buying/renting/watching DVDs.
Anyways, while I'm happy that there are still people working on DVD under Linux, I'm still boycotting DVD's. It's hard to walk past the DVD section at Circut City and not buy a DVD player...
I certianly hope the MPAA loses and has to allow DeCSS to be continued.... I WANT A PSX2... :\
------- What exactly is real?
You people need to get a clue. Unlike the DXR2, the DXR3/Hollywood+ cards do CSS in software, which is supposedly one reason Creative/Sigma haven't released an open source driver for them yet.
So: (A) these drivers depend on the css-auth stuff from LIVID to unlock the disks and feed a *decrypted* MPEG stream to the card, (B) there is hence nothing more or new here for the MPAA to get mad about, and (C) (regarding another clueless comment farther down) these drivers do NOT demonstrate the availability of "legitimate" alternatives to the LIVID unauthorized CSS software since they depend on it.
If I were the MPAA, I'd keep my big gob shut on this one, and let it slide. This would enable them to say "Look, the Hollywood card (licensed) will let you play DVDs on Linux!"
The only people to complain would be the makers of the card.
-Militant Elf (A PFY for a BOFH)
andrew-galvan@sos.uiowa.edu
(remove the sos for deliverable flames)
I own a Hollywood+ card, and I can tell you from as long ago as mid-1998, Sigma Designs has been uncooperative with the linux community with this card. They claim it's because they're currently working on an entirely new chipset that does everything, CSS included, in hardware.
What that means for linux users: Given a mpeg stream that's CSS encoded, you feed it directly into the card, and video comes out. Something along the lines of cat /dev/dvdrom > /dev/dvd_playback and it works. (I imagine there's more to it than that, but you get the idea)
The Hollywood+, however, is an mpeg card. It decodes mpeg streams and outputs them. CSS for the Hollywood+ DVD playback is done entirely in software, in their player. According to Sigma Designs, the reason they don't want to release the specs is because their video overlay technology is spiffy, new, cool, and secret. I don't belive them, but that's their story, and they're sticking to it.
I want a rock.
"The hardware wasn't designed to run under linux. Specifically, if the driver doesn't catch an interrupt and poke a value back into memory every 100 or so frames the system will blow a bit on it's EPROM and refuse to run anymore.
This was implimented by the MPAA to prevent "piracy" under linux. It's part of their new scheme called ConsumerInaction (CI). By making sure the customer is incapable of viewing the DVDs they purchased, the MPAA can ensure
nobody will pirate any of their releases. However, these guys are working on a decoder that'll work with the new CI-compliant machines... "
Is there any evidence that you can really shortcircuit any hardware just by running linux? Hardly doubtful.
I think this is sarcasm but I am not sure.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
I happen to have a Hollywood Plus decoder that came with my Pioneer DVD drive but I've never installed it. If this Linux driver for it works and you want to install it, more power to you but my question is why would you want to? I can understand wanting to play DVD's on your linux box if you have a DVD drive but from reading the manual on the card (unless I'm very mistaken, if so please correct me) it seems like no matter what resolutions your display adapter is capable of after hooking up the decoder and wiring the pass through you then limit your display to 1024x768xXXX only? I waited too many years to get to 1600x1200xXXX to go back to 1024x768 and I'm not wiring and unwiring those video cables every time I want to watch a DVD!
If anybody ever gets this part working, please apply for a job at Apple so you can fix their &$%#@! software DVD decoding....
In fairness, the recent updates to the system make it perform much better. But still.
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
Ah, the weakness of society.
I myself am outraged by what the MPAA and the DVD people are trying to do. And the way I'm dealing with it is to not buy/rent/watch DVDs!
Saying "jeez, what they're doing is really bad" and then turning around and buying their product is like sticking a big "rape me hard" sign on your back. If you don't agree with their business practices, don't give them your patronage! It floors me how people often neglect to vote in the most effective way - with their dollars.
People are inherently selfish. We're seeing a lot of that here, from those whose main argument was they they couldn't watch The Matrix on their Linux boxes, and are now thinking that they have no argument since DVD playback through licensed players are coming to Linux. What about those running *BSD? Any other Unix? Hell, what about BeOS? Wasn't Be meant for multimedia? Sure, there's open source drivers for two decoder cards out there (H+ & DXr2) that could theoretically be rewritten for any other OS, but why should we be so limited in our choice of hardware? If I run BeOS on a system that doesn't have a free PCI slot for a DVD decoder card, does that mean I should be shut out of watching DVDs on that system?
Our "chief weapon" never was that "Linux users couldn't play DVDs". Our chief weapon is that we are being denied fair use and that the MPAA and DVDCCA are illegally profitting from various tactics in the DVD market (player licensing and region coding/price fixing). That and some legitimate users (such as myself, whose copy of SoftDVD won't work with the ViperV550 it legally came with unless I use hideously out of date drivers) are being sorely inconvenienced by these schemes.
In my second term EE design class this year, we had a mantra: "If the customer ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." And why should the customer pay for soemthing that doesn't satisfy them or outright pisses them off? Anyone who detests the MPAA and DVDCCA's tactics should vote with their wallets. We're the customers and we have to show them that we ain't happy.
I've read (on the Sigma Designs site) that there is a digital set-top box reference design based on Linux and the Intel Celeron processor. You can check the full press release here.
I can only hope that the drivers created for this device would be released to the public in at least binary form. Unfortunately, I doubt that the greedy company (Sigma Designs) will be so generous. I'm sure they view this as a proprietary trade secret which could generate serious revenue for their company.
PSiLiCON
All in all, not any more difficult than getting a Sound Blaster to run. I was quite impressed. Goodbye, windows partition!
Firstly, Creative has shown that it can comply with CSS (fsck them!) and still make cards that have open-sourced drivers. More power to them! This mean that there is chance that the other unices can too have DVD playback.
But then our chief weapon against the evils of DVD encryption is lost. The content is still encrypted. Those MPAA idiots are still locking us into their commercial interests, and are not thinking about the future long-term culteral heritage. 100 years laters, archivists interested in what we see, how we think will laugh at us for trying to protect the unprotectable. The region-locks are also provide too much power over how we use the technology.
Well, it's hard to judge if this is a good thing or not.
More teenagers to be arrested, do folks at 2600 know about this one?
You can't handle the truth.