Making Your Own Linux

jjr writes: "Have you ever wanted to make your own Linux distro? Now at www.linuxfromscratch.org you can teach yourself how Linux works and even make your own Linux distro from the info they have at this site." This looks like a cool resource especially if your school or place of employ (or coven, biker gang, hunter-gatherer tribe, etc.) wants to create a site- or affinity-specific distribution.

Comments

That's sorta old, no?

[pnevares]

There's been a Linux from Scratch HOWTO for a while now, very interesting reading.

Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".

Multiple Flavors and Support

[ZeroLogic]

Just curious, but is there anything a corporation would gain from building their own distro from scratch? I can't think of anything they would gain from that over adding rpms to redhat or more debian packages to the debian distro.

Am I missing something?

/ZL

Re:Multiple Flavors and Support

[SquadBoy]

Yes you are missing something. Many users and potential users already go through a great deal of trouble to script things when they install any OS. This will let many possible Linux Users build a custom distro that will include many things the other distros can't and take out many things they also can't take out. Thinks strong crypto and alot of services someone on the bottom end would not need to use. I'm currently involved in a project to give Linux machines to customer service people give them a web front end for everything and no rights to anything else. This could be very usefull.

Re:Multiple Flavors and Support

[zorgon]

I can think of a gzillion. Custom network, X, shell, and software package configuration all pre-done, kernels set up for particular machines or combinations of peripherals, stuff you *don't* want to put in every desktop machine but is typically included in the other distros (like httpd, ftpd ...). The advantage goes up and up the more times you have to do it. Makes sense for a site where you have to administer > 50 machines. You aren't missing anything at all, really, it's just a matter of reducing the number of steps needed to configure a box.

Re:Multiple Flavors and Support

[dvdeug]

Or you could package custom packages for Debian/
Red Hat/Mastadon - Debian makes making a kernel package a standard part of compiling a new kernel, so that's no problem. With Debian or Red Hat, it should be trivial to not install what you don't want (I know it is in Debian.) And you can rely on the security patches from upstream matching up with your stuff.

Want to upgrade all the kernels in a Debian based
situation? Replace kernel-2.2.2 with kernel-2.2.8 in your apt-cache, and run apt-get install kernel-2.2.8 on each computer. Are you going to make it easier than that with your own distro, without a lot of pain?

Re:Multiple Flavors and Support

[Raleel]

Yea, I have been thinking about doing this very seriously. Right now we have a bunch of post install add-ons that I would like to see wrapped up into an installation. Things like security warning banners (You are using a DOE computer...your mind is not your own sorts of things), site-specific security issues (ssh, kerberos, AFS), and having xservers already setup for mass machine configuration.

Re:Multiple Flavors and Support

[zorgon]

yyyyyeeeeahh, no, probably not. You are surely right as far as that goes. But I'm sure there does come a point where you do x amount of tweaking to a particular distro to make it work for you and an x+1 point where it's worth doing your own. I've installed RedHat on enuf boxen to know that it takes a bit of time to get it right on our net, so no that is not trivial when you take this bit and multiply it x50. Not for everyone.

Re:Multiple Flavors and Support

[zorgon]

Yeah: especially if they get smart like decide to completely eliminate NT and replace it, so they'd have to do it a bunch of times.

make your own linux

[phlypsyde]

This is a good idea. for someone with a spare box and alot of time on their hands. I imagine you would learn an aweful lot about what each integral part of linux does, and why.

I'm in!

[big_hairy_mama]

I know that I can find about a hundred uses for this at my high school alone! Bloated RedHat just doesn't cut it when all your computers are donated and have 300MB harddrives. That's what Linux should be used for anyway - to take full advantage of everything that doesn't have the 256MB RAM required to run Win2k.

make your own linux distro in your own language

[test007]

Now this is something I have wanted to do for a long time, but did not know where to start. Now if there only was some way to easily add national language support for many languages (Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese etc.).

I know slangsoft (http://www.slangsoft.com) has a library you can link with your java applications to accomplish this. But there are a few drawbacks to this toolkit.

1
this toolkit is a commercial product and therefore hard or impossible to integrate with a linux distribution whithout violating the GPL (correct me if I am wrong).

2
It only works with java.

3
It only works for webapplications

Wouldn't it be neat if there was some sort of an open source alternative? I think this would help spread linux usage worldwide because people can have an operating system in their native language. Maybe Slangsoft can be persuaded to open source their product.

Looks like a good idea

[mind21_98]

This is pretty useful for web hosting companies and the like, as they get to customize every aspect of it and make it as secure and reliable as possible.

I'm currently discussing this with my boss, but there's one thing that's missing from that howto: how to burn the new distro onto CD and how to install it on other computers. That is the thing which is preventing us from implementing this reliably (there is always the possibility of using a boot disk and copying it using NFS, but that isn't for the faint of heart.)

Slashdot poll suggestion

[PollMastah]

What is the main reason you'd like to assemble your own Linux distro?

1. It's a good learning experience for people who want to know exactly how the different parts fit together.
2. It allows total control over what you put into your system.
3. The standard Linux distributions are too bloated for my tastes.
4. I just like re-inventing the wheel, especially square ones.
5. 'cos RedHat sucks.
6. 'cos CmdrTaco rules.
7. Yuck. I prefer to stick with an existing distro.
8. What, you mean anybody from highschool can actually assemble their own Linux system?!! God forbid! This is a security hazard! We better report this to the FBI!

.

SlashLinux

[Signal 11]

I heard Rob was going to release SlashLinux after reading this site, but then somebody asked him about it so he delayed its release 24 hours.

Slash distro???

[Issue9mm]

This absolutely positively must mean that the slashdot crew is planning on creating their own distro, complete with Slash already integrated.

There simply is no excuse for this now. With such tools provided, they'd be hipocrites not to make one. This IS an open source shop right???

P.S.-Don't kill me Rob, was just making fun of all the comments just before Slash got released. ;0)

/. Effect - Mirror

[big_hairy_mama]

It seems to be suffering from a little bit of the /. effect, so I put up a mirror of the actual document at http://www.pdavis.cx/HOWTO/LFS-BOOK/in dex.html. This not the whole site, just the document (the development version).

Government Distro

[DeepDarkSky]

I still think it'd be really cool if the government were to create and use their own distro. That way, they can have a lot of control over the product, they can also have a very secure product. If they don't believe it, the full source code can always be reviewed, by anyone. That way, the only way they can achieve security and keeping information classified would be to use tools that were really secure, not merely obscure. I think the government should really consider it.

Re:Government Distro

[Black Parrot]

> I still think it'd be really cool if the government were to create and use their own distro.

Let's see, we could have -

• _NSALinux, specially designed for by foreign governments,
  
• FBILinux, specially designed for use by crackers, and
  
• IRSLinux, specially designed for use by tax cheaters.

Am I forgetting any?

ps - Although I've made a joke of it, I agree that it would be the ultimate in good sense for governments world wide to adopt OSS, aka "Trojan Free", solutions.
--
"Damn! And just when Piranha was starting to turn the tide of negative PR!"

Re:Government Distro

[Black Parrot]

> Can you prove that any proprietary OS's include any trojans?

Of course not. You can't prove either way about a POS. That's the whole point.

--
"Damn! And just when Piranha was starting to turn the tide of negative PR!"

Interesting, but not what's needed

[pjc50]

Building your own distro so you can control the initial setup of, eg. an office, is nowhere near as useful as having proper configuration management tools.

One of the things Debian are working towards (with debconf and apt) is a system where you can roll out a bunch of workstations with the same configuration automatically (just point them at your "config server"); or you can save your configuration to use as a backup, or to help someone else get started.

They're not there yet. But "zero administration" will be the killer app that gets linux onto office desktops...

Re:Interesting, but not what's needed

[Skapare]

I've been building a "fast install" of Linux based on Slackware 7.0 with many of my local mods (including a total rewrite of the sysinit rc scripts). The full install takes less than 8 minutes (when started from a HD based rescue partition) which is faster than some systems can even get booted up. Smaller configurations should go even faster. And this even includes repartitioning and reformatting. The configuration to be installed is entirely separate from the configuration of the system that serves the installation.

There is no concensus on what proper configuration management tools is, yet. What I am aiming for is less need to actually do any configuration. Right now the configuration I actually do involves editing files because there are no configuration tools around that know how to configure a collection of modularized installation feature groups as I have now. For those who prefer menu and/or graphical based central configuration, such tools will be needed. Since I'm not one who uses such tools, I would be a poor choice to program that part of the project. Maybe you could do that part?

I'm also currently looking at basing this from Debian 2.2. I would have to figure out how to change dpkg/apt so it can install into the installation repository instead of the host system, or run on the target machines and obtain configuration preferences from the central machine (e.g. what to install, etc).

Looks like I need three

[hedgehog_uk]

This looks like a cool resource especially if your school or place of employ (or coven, biker gang, hunter-gatherer tribe, etc.) wants to create a site- or affinity-specific distribution.

I'm employed, I'm wiccan and I'm a biker. Looks like I'm going to be very busy creating distros!

HH

Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.

No no no

[FascDot Killed My Pr]

"...they get to customize every aspect of it and make it as secure and reliable as possible."

No! Bad company! Attempting to design and maintain your own distro is guaranteed to end in insecurity. A much better idea would be to participate in an existing "high-security" distro.
--

Re:No no no

[bmetzler]

Attempting to design and maintain your own distro is guaranteed to end in insecurity.

Ask QNX if you don't believe this...

-Brent

CD-ROM based distro...

[Silicon_Knight]

Anyone seen www.demolinux.org? They have a CD-ROM based linux distro that boots off a CDROM, autodetects the hardware, and runs off a RAMDISK partition.

With an 80min CDR blank (which fits nicely into my wallet, and the ability to build a custom linux distro, imagine the possibility: Being able to walk into any computer lab, or borrow a machine, insert this little disc, and bam! have ssh, an xterm, etc...

-=- SiKnight

Re:CD-ROM based distro...

[weston]

OK, here's something I don't understand: How do you get your network settings right if you do this?

I've tried this with PicoBSD (fits on floppy--only gives you terminal access, but it's better than nothing) and want to try it with the QNX-on-a-floppy (has gui & browser!) . However, I shove the floppy in a random machine at a public library, and it boots and then, since I'm not very networking literate, I don't know how to set things like my IP and routing info. Advice?

Diskless Workstation Distro

[zCyl]

Slighty offtopic, but does anyone know of an existing distro with good support for setting up servers for diskless workstations?

Re:Diskless Workstation Distro

[Mawbid]

The Debian package diskless looks promising.
--

OOPS.

[Silicon_Knight]

I meant 80 MM , not 80 mm. In other words, CD single size. I have a few of these CDRs around. And those will fit in a wallet. They are only a bit bigger than a credit card dimensional wise, holds almost 200 Mbs. Which is enough for a small slackware install with X. SiKnight

Re:OOPS.

[tzanger]

They are only a bit bigger than a credit card dimensional wise, holds almost 200 Mbs.

Excuse me?

The only credit-card sized CDs I have found hold 20 or 40MB, not 200. I would, however, be interersted in 200mb varieties. Got a link?

Re:Linux

[delong]

Why bother? Why bother buying a kit car when you can buy a perfectly good classic car on the market? Easy - for the enjoyment. I found the Linux from Scratch How-to a while ago, and thought it really cool. Some people, such as myself, take enjoyment out of fiddling and tinkering and rolling your own Linux distro would be 1. a helluva lot o fun (with headaches Im sure) 2. get to learn what one *doesnt* know about Linux 3. impress friends and family with freshly burnt cd's of your own custom rolled Linux distro ;)

There may or may not be any utility in rolling your own, but for me at least that consideration misses the point.

Re:Jesux here I come!

[Black Parrot]

I, on the other hand, am eagerly putting together my own Eunux distro. (It's almost there, but there's still one vital part is missing.)

--
"Damn! And just when Piranha was starting to turn the tide of negative PR!"

Re:Rather slanted?

[HIghoS]

LFS isn't about making a distro... it's about building a linux system from the source up.
And by the time you have compiled the basic system, you could compile and install Enlightenment or Gnome or Emacs or whatever by yourself ;)
Everything that's installed right now is what the Author thou was best in his opinion... do whatever you like it did...
On a seperate note, if you check the mailing list you will see that the Book is in heavy development right now.
There's been a lot of discussion about where the Book should go, like should the Book explain how to setup this or what when there's pleny of HOWTO's that go into great detail about how to do something specific at http://www.linuxdoc.org
Anyways, hope i could clear up a few thinks...

Re:can we have /. distro?

[bmetzler]

oh boy, I seem to have touched a nerve.

Yes you did, thank you.

All that because you asked me a question ("does anyone really say Linux is free?") and I answered it in a way that you didn't want me to yet you can't refure? I'll answer your questions one at a time.

I've heard that premise before ("Linux isn't free unless your time is free") and I've never understand what the point of it was. I mean, any OS is going to require "time", so it's not like Linux is any worse then anything else in that area. Windows requires "time" too, just like Linux does. You aren't going to not need "time", just because you use Windows instead of Linux. But I'm sure you already know that.

Now onto your other points.

I really didn't pay anything for my copy of windows, it came with my computer.

I would have had to pay $200 if I wanted to buy a license to have Windows on my PC. Just because you got Windows preloaded, doesn't mean that you didn't pay anything for it. OEM's have to make a profit somehow, and that means that they are recouping the cost of the license. It just may not be as much as Microsoft gouges consumers for.

I can't remember the last time Windows crashed on me requiring a reboot.

Windows continually runs out of resources and then crashes, or refuses to run more applications, or quites redrawing properly. I don't know while, but it happens on all my Windows boxes. I should have those problems with a AMD K6-350 and 64meg ram, when all I'm running is Access, Word, C++ Builder, 2 dozen instances of IE open, and email and irc clients. And a bunch of other software open too. But anyways, I can run a whole lot more programs then that in Linux, without having to close programs down, or hit the reset button.

You're going to pay in terms of the time it takes you to get things working that you had taken for granted in Windows.

I wish I could claim to have that same experience. (Yeah, right!). However, when I've installed Windows, and Linux, it's always been Windows that has taken the time, been frusterating, and never worked. Linux, I can pop in the CD, and in 30 minutes have it rebooted and running. It'll have set everything up that I need, configured all my hardware, and is on the network. With Windows, it takes forever to install Windows to the hard drive. Then you've got to reboot. And reboot. And reboot. Install Office. Reboot. Install the drivers that didn't come with Windows. Reboot. Install Borland C++ Builder. Reboot. Install RealPlayer. Reboot. Install netmeeting. Reboot. Install an X server. Reboot. Configure the box to talk to the network. Reboot. Then if you've only got a modem connection, it'll be all night to download the 40+ meg from the Windows 98 update site that has been release since last June. Reboot. Also if you have the original 98 license, MS will send you the SE patches on CD (for S/H) but you'll have to install 98 first, and then the patches over that. Reboot.

I guess I don't know what to say. I *could* do my work in either Windows or Linux, I suppose. However, I value my time. And that's why I choose to use Linux.

In conclusion, I thank you for exmplaining your reasoning. But I must disagree. First of all, I think that everyone understands that nothing is ever completely free. However, certain qualities of things are free. For instance, in the case of Linux, I don't have to pay licensing costs. I'd call that free. Second, time is valuable. That's why you must make sure that you have a good investment. An OS that can't handle running all the applications I use, with the hardware I give it, isn't a good investment. An OS that doesn't eat up my valuable time be requiring my to run less applications then I should, or that requires me to reboot, certainly is less 'free' (in your own terms), then one that allows my to do everything I want.

Game distros?

[Bryce]

Would it be useful to have CD's specific to a given game? For instance, with WorldForge, I've wondered if it would be useful to set up a CD-of-the-month club, with the latest versions of the clients - with all libraries, artwork, media, scripts, etc. - which could be booted independently without needing to disturb the primary OS.

Bryce

Re:Rather slanted?

[Syberghost]

If upgradeability concerns you (and it shouldn't, there are several good methods of managing this, not the least of which being "make uninstall" with most decent newer programs) then you can always install a package manager, and follow a distribution's conventions.

Nothing prevents you from using RPM, for instance, on your homemade non-RedHat system.

Re:hmm

[mircea]

I was able to fit a whole Slackware 7.0 install, with KDE and all, in just under 480M. Make sure you use "expert" mode upon install, it will allow you to pick individual packages.

One more thing: if you can get several small HDs, you can use them together in software-RAID mode: the system I'm talking about actually has 5 HDs, ranging from 80M to 185M, for a total of 600M.

Hunter-Gatherer Linux

[Morchella]

Compiled by two Cro-Magnon and a Neandertal, HG Linux is desgined specifically for the modern computing needs of hunter-gatherers. HG Linux includes our custom Point-and-Grunt interface, simple enough for even the pre-verbal cave-dweller.

We at HG Linux torture tested our distro, by giving it to upper management for a month. Yes, we use our own distribution internally, as many of our tech support personel also have sloping foreheads and prognathous jaws.

We've carefully selected a minimum set of tools, considered uncomplicated enough for use by the illiterate. We know that many of you who are capable of actually READING don't bother to crack the manual open, so printed manuals aren't included. HG Linux is intentionally missing the usual READMEs and manpages. Not to worry! We've replaced them with simplified cave-paintings, in PNG format. Just point and grunt!

http://hglinux.example.org/

[...Example.org: providing all your RFC 2606 compliant sample domain name needs...]