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24/7 Running PCs = Fire Risk?
Here's a short but sweet question left in my in-box by an anonymous birdie: "How safe is it to leave a PC running continuously in a domestic environment? Are there any precautions that one could/should take?" Now computers running 24/7 can put out quite a bit of heat, but I wasn't aware that such things made them fire hazards. Can someone clarify this issue?
Having went through a fire in the not too distant past, it becomes clear that a UPS can be down right dangerous to your systems in a fire.
Typically the first thing your fire department will do is cut power. If you don't have a UPS, you're computers at least have a chance of survival if they are anywhere near the fire.
However, with a UPS all it will take some water to kill the system for good. Especially if you leave the cases off of the system.
Dean's Rule #45. The truth hurts for a moment. A lie hurts for a long time.
You can check out kryotech.com They have freon-replacement coolers for PCs. It also speeds up your cpu without overclocking as a result of the low operating temperature.
Cray's used Flourinert(tm) from 3M to cool their systems. It has the same specific gravety as water, but it does not conduct electricity. You can immerse a computer in it. The case must be sealed, because Flourinert evaporates quickly.
Older mainframes from other vendors have been immersed in mineral oil.
Freon sounds good. It's just that I work in a very dusty environment (a basement under some renovations) and every few days, the fans get clogged up. Switching to freon or other liquids would be uber good for my box. Hate having to clean those damn fan motors. And the only vacuum I have is a shop vac (i.e. can't give my computer a good dusting, only shifting it around on t.p.)
Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment
I have actually seen flames erupt from a computer. The PC had some suspect power problems. I hooked it up on the bench, walked some feet away and turned on the power. Things seemed OK until I heard a loud POP sound and yes, the flames. And the boss thought I was a hot technician :). -Pete
Yep. I misconnected power to a floppy drive a few weeks ago, and *pop*, same thing. Easy to do on some drives; the power connectors aren't keyed!
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
I knew a guy that had about 6 computers in his room and one day (luckily while he was there) one of them caught fire. The damage to the wall next to the computer was pretty serious. I am pretty sure that it was the power supply that started the fire. This is sort of scary to me since I have about 6 computers running in my house and 4 of them run 24/7.
Does anyone else have first hand experience with computer fires?
I have a system running 24/7 in a walk-in type of closet. It's not the most ventilated room in the apartment, but the system keeps pretty cool nevertheless. I have it plugged into a UPS to prevent the occasional thunderstorms from damaging or rebooting the system. It runs for months at a time with no problems, but the fear of a fire is still looming in the back of my head. The system being an old P133 I really couldn't care less if it dies, but that is not the case with the apartment. On the other hand I really need it to run 24/7. Anyone know of any fireproof cases?
I guess under a wooden desk covered with various papers isn't a good idea then?
~ppppppppö
That's "acetylene", which is a lot easier to look up in a reference book if you're curious.
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Ancient Goth: Someone who overthrew the Roman Empire.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Some time ago, I had in-house an ATX machine that I was preparing to be a Linux-based web-serving box for a local ISP.
It was a reasonablely tame machine. Pentium II 266 or thereabouts, some sort of fast Seagate SCSI drive (just one), and a PCI ethernet controller.
I left it in the soft-off state overnight. The next morning, my girlfriend woke me up, saying "Hey, your computer is on fire."
Seems that some motherboard/power supply/accessory combinations either lack sufficient cooling or draw too much power while suspended for it to be done safely.
So, the moral of this story is to turn *off* ATX computers, or leave them on all the time. This means hitting the rear-panel power switch, unplugging it, or otherwise physically removing all power from it. The front panel switch does *not* do this -- sure, the fans and disks all spin down, but the machine can (and does) still draw current in that zero-cooling enviroment.
I was lucky in that the power supply was the only component release its magic smoke, and not the entire house.
Kid-proof tablet..
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Email address is real.
What's wrong with your mouth? I've used mine to remove dust for years.
In reality, your computer's electronics (not fans, HDDs, CD-ROM or other mechanical devices) will not be fazed by water. You could throw your processor in a bucket of water, let it sit for two weeks, pull it out and let it dry and plug it back in. It'll work just fine. The key here is the drying part, without that you may let out the magic smoke.
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Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
marotti.com
Computers can pose all sorts or fire hazards, especially from electrical sparks. Have you checked your overloaded sure protector lately?
Dayton, Ohio. Computerized car washes, they used Gateway(TM) boxen to run the timers for the bays, etc.
Flood happens. Flood is muddy. flood is EVIL. box is under 6 feet of silty water for a week or so.
i strip dead machine. Mobo=dead. drives=dead & rusted. RAM=thought to be working, POSTed fine. started generating random errors on scandisk and such, determined bad after it made the machine think a 4 gig WD hard disk was corrupted to all fuck (when i knew it wasn't) discarded ram(80 megs of it too!!)
CPU (first stepping P2 233)=Looked rather corroded... but worked absolutely PERFECTLY (after a new CPU fan) for about 6 months straight in a gaming machine.
the moral: Intel does make good shit.
From a motherboard manual, error beep codes: S-L-L-L-SS: Speaker Error
Hate to respond to a troll...
Machinists burn iron all the time. Iron is hard to cut normally, but if you heat it to red hot and then supply a lot of oxygon, the iron burns away and you can make big cuts fast. They generally use a tool called "oxy/accetelene torch".
I'd be careful with static electricity. I have seen electrical discharges around surfaces next to air pressure and vacuums. We have vacuum lines at work to suck plastic compound beads into hoppers and standing next to one of them could net you a two inch long spark that will shock the hell out of you! Fast moving air causes static electricity!
If you need to blow something off, make sure its not "dry air."
I've done a little blacksmithing, and Iron will burn quite nicely. That's one of the things that's hardest to learn when you're just starting out is how hot metal is, so you get it hot enough for it to be nice a malleable without it burning.
This Sig Intentionally left blank
The problem with Freon (or whatever the latest version is called) is that you still need fans...now you also need a compressor and a fan for the evaporator. I've used water cooling for one of my computers; I purchased a (new) heater core from an auto parts store and mounted it at the fan intake for one of my computers in a toasty room. It worked pretty well; the cool water broght the temp down. But I was always worried about condensation on the coils. This would be a problem with Freon-cooled units as well.
When in doubt, be cool
ZEN is a prime number in base-36
Honestly, I can't see it being any more risky to leave a computer on unattended (which is what you're really asking) than leaving the TV set on.
The big thing here is common sense. A computer is an electrical device (indeed, one that consumes a fair amount of power). You should treat it as such. By far your greatest hazzard is a short-circuit that sparks, which can result in a fire.
All in all, common sense. One thing here: if you can possibly arrange it, put the computer in a room that doesn't have carpeting - and definately avoid rugs. It cuts down on dust and crap, and is slightly safer (linoleum, tile, concrete, or even a wood floor is much less likely to catch fire from random sparks).
Most of this advices goes for all computer-related equipment (hubs, telco stuff, UPSes...), though the low-power and general safety of small networking gear makes it possible to safely stow in closets (but do try not to stack clothes/inflammibles on it) - I usually recommend putting it in something similar to a metal milk crate.
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
Underwriters Laboratory is most well known for testing that products are not likely to cause a fire. Insurance companies don't like fire, so they prefer items which have been UL tested. (Insurance companies are "underwriters" of your insurance)
If there's a fire with a non-UL device, your insurance company will be unhappy about the situation -- nearly as unhappy as you.
A guy in our local LUG (see URL above) once had an ethernet card catch on fire spontaneously. He showed us the wreckage of the box at a meeting. Damnedest thing I've ever seen.
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I've had from 1-3 computers running 24/7 at home
at various times over the last 5 years.
A few years ago, I had just put a new (old) 8-bit soundblaster card into my 486. A few hours later, one of the capacitors on the card caught on fire. I would not have noticed if the case had been on.
Whether it would have spread to other components, or just burned itself out I do not know.
I never did check the card to see if it works, but a friend of mine has an SB16 that he said caught on fire once, and still works.
OpenVerse Visual Chat: http://openverse.org
-- OpenVerse Visual Chat: http://openverse.com
What kind of cooling am I talking about? Glad you asked.
Why, I'm talking about Gatorade(r) Thirst Quencher(tm). Only Gatorade(r) Thirst Quencher(tm) cools your computer "to the core," eliminating that "deep down" thirst and heat that may plague performance and cause safety problems.
Simply take a large container of Gatorade(r), such as our 96 oz. X-Treme Performance(tm) bottle with patented Acti-Grip(tm) technology, and pour it generously over your computer, making sure to concentrate on important components such as your processor which may have a "thirst for performance." Pick any of 20 refreshing flavors, including Tropical Burst, Gatorade Frost(tm) Riptide Rush, and new Gatorade Fierce(tm) Melon. Watch as your components are cooled, and give off "sparks and steam of enjoyment" as they become re-newed by our scientifically designed 6% mixture of highly energizing carbohydrates and minerals. Repeat this process every two to three days, and watch as you never have to worry about overheating components or safety issues.
Remember, this type of X-Treme Performance(tm) is only available through Gatorade(r) and its subsidiaries.
Gatorade: Is it in you?
Gatorade(r) is a division of The Quaker Oats Company(r). Gatorade(r) and the lightning bolt are registered trademarks of Stokely-Van Camp, Inc. Is It In You?(tm) is a trademark of Stokely - Van Camp, Inc.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
Is it possible to do that with home computers? Or do we have to go back ten years to Cray supercomputers and big blue iron for that?
Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment
If a unit is UL recognized, it has to go through a review of all the parts contained. PCBs have to be rated 94-V0 (non-flammable). Components have to be safety tested to make sure that they won't give you a shock of 110V AC if you touch it.
To give you a sense of what this really means:
I was at a company that was testing some prototype boards, and the engineer left the test running over the weekend. Unfortunately the proto board was bad, causing a short and caused the board to glow red hot. Did I mention this went on all weekend? The engineer showed up on monday and all that was wrong was the board still had power going to it and a burning smell. Had the PCB not been 94V0, it would have burned the building down.
-- Ever notice that fast-burning fuse looks exactly the same as slow-burning fuse? I didn't... (Edgar Montrose)
Every 6 months to a year you should probably strip it down to parts and dust everything. I'd left mine undusted for far too long and after dusting my temp dropped 20 degrees. I think other than common sense dust will be the biggest problem with your machine.
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Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
marotti.com
I have my poota's on 24/7. Yes they get warm and my girlfriend complains about the noise of the fans. The only precautions I take are checking the fans every couple of days (visual check to see theyre spinning) and having my units hooked up to a UPS. The UPS is mainly to prevent spikes to my equipment, as I feel thats where the biggest risk would come from. Punkey.
I had a CDR catch fire once in one of those external cases. The power supplys on those are not good. Fortunately I got it out before it harmed the CDR. Tis still burning today.
`Kevin
i have misplaced my signature.
I've been running my machines 24x7 for about 8 years now, without problems. All I can really do is echo what others have said. Make sure the machine is in a well ventilated location, away from direct sunlight, and clean out the dust every once in a while. My "machine room" at home currently has four 24x7 boxen, and the only real problem is the amount of heat they generate, though that is significantly reduced when the monitors are off (although the machines themselves are 24x7, I don't leave the monitors on all the time).
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I am an Electrical Engineer...which does not mean that I know what I am talking about, although in this case I actually do.
I would strongly suggest the use of quality components in the PC, in particular the power supply. Another user suggested using a UL-listed power supply. This is certainly true, but there is more you should look for than just a UL sticker. Buy one of the more-expensive PC supplies...and buy a supply rated for significantly more current than you need...don't "cut it close". As a sysadmin, I have had many cheap PC power supplies fry their fans or blow capacitors. In one case a supply melted its fan and literally burst into flame.
When in doubt, buy a supply made in the US or Europe (or overseas for a US/European company). With a company name and phone number. While this is no guarantee of quality, these companies are liable for a poorly made product and less-likely to leave out a $0.39 thermal fuse. Better power supplies will also have overcurrent protection, and shut themselves off when things go past the breaking point. Cheap supplies keep humming away until they or your motherboard starts to smoke.
There are still many quality PC power supplies made in Asia, but the components in a particular model tend to vary from unit to unit, so it pays to be careful. I have also seen a UL sticker on supplies that were clearly manufactured with no quality control (bits of stripped wire rolling around in the enclosure, parts not fully soldered on boards) so I suspect the UL marking on some of the imported supplies to be counterfit. And never, ever buy a supply that cannot even manage to get a UL mark. If there is a fire, your insurance may be invalidated.
Still, a PC is very unlikely to catch fire. I have four PCs (one with a cheap power supply) running 24/7 at home with no worries. But poor supplies run a much higher risk of frying components. And like another poster said, Vacuum that PC! Keep dust to a minimum for a long product life