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Dell & IBM Both Shipping Linux
Several people noted that Red Hat is now partnering with Dell and offering
Red Hat as one of its strategic operating systems, as well as shipping Linux web/proxy boxes to Lexus and Toyota dealerships. But thats not all... Big Blue apparently is now shipping T20 Thinkpads with
Caldera and Star Office preloaded.
BTW, if you really want *BSD, BeOS or Minix (There's gotta be one Minix fan out there) shipping...call your favourite OEM. Dell, Compaq... they don't hire psychics you know. If they perceive sales, they'll ship 'em... eventually.
On a vaguely-related note, my theory as to why OEM's haven't shipped a lot of pre-installed "alternative" OS's is that the Linux/*BSD/Minix crowd has a strong do-it-yerself rep. Why would OEM x ship Red Hat on their box when the customer is:
a) Probably not going to be swayed by the convenience factor, since convenience and ease-of-use ranks 47th or lower on a *nix user's priority list (or so the perception goes)
b) There are so many *nix brands out there that, chances are, they're not going to get a plurality of the users to make it worthwhile. Sure, they could ship RH, but 70% of the *nix users are geeks who would probably just uninstall it anyway so they could load the latest snap of Suse 42b4a2 that they compiled on the Beowulf cluster of palm pilots they've got in their garage. At least that's the perception from the OEM's point of view.
Last point... and really offtopic. I saw an ad last week for Compaq that said "24x7 Nonstop"... are they trying to tell me their computer will only run for one fucking week?? Sheesh!
2 1337 4 u!
Argh! Now that someone noticed it, I can as well make it official...
Resistance is futile. Slashdot will be assimilated.
Oops, no, we're not Microsoft, forget that.
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Thanx for the info. Still, it only seems to be for the UK. For Switzerland, France, etc. they don't put Linux anywhere. AND YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR A WINDOWS (98, NT, 2000) LICENSE!! If you scroll down, where there's the OS choice, it's all windoze...
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
Dell seems to be only offering Linux in the USA, not in Europe. You can check http://euro.dell.com and they *never* propose Linux, even for high end servers (only winblows and Netware).
Anyway, when you see the kind of monopoly M$ has over Europe, it isn't surprising. If you guys think M$ is a bully in the USA, come and have a look at it here... A friend of mine has a computer store and is an official MS reseller. One day, some MS marketing guy came over to look at how they were presenting their crap and noticed some Linux distros among the various software. The reaction was immediate: "If you want to keep being one of our official reseller, those penguin boxes have to disappear, etc...".
Now, no major PC manufacturer dares selling anything else than MS in Europe by fear of retaliation. Good thing I build all my PCs!
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
I agree that the trial made linux catch up faster, my point was that it was inevitable. Eventually there would have been enought demand for Dell computers preinstalled with Linux that they would have risked M$'s anger and done it anyway. My point simply is that Linux was winning an upward battle without the DOJ's help, and would have eventually won either way.
Finkployd
Though I believe everyone that says netscape locks up/crashes on them, I'm always puzzled because it doesn't happen to me.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Having just aquired (yesterday) a Sony Glasstron, I am now looking for a laptop that support S-Video or has an RCA video jack, plus a built in DVD drive.
Ok, this fits the bill, BUT -- do all of these *work* under Linux? Especially the DVD drive, which I would want to use as a DVD and VCD player.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
can I get one of those cool fall-apart stickers? :)..
The last thing you want as an auto dealer is a 'crash'..
air and light and time and space
yup. I think this is a coincidence. I think it has more to do with the progress that has been made with Linux in terms of friendly install, improved driver support, lots of good software. You now have distro's that will install very easily on most any machine, and a good gui that the average user can grasp and run without any real knowledge of a CLI..
air and light and time and space
True, RedHat is making money, but for a business in RedHat's position, $16mil is a pitance. And a 2.5mil loss is still way to much for a company as established (and old! RedHat is not a startup) as Redhat. I think Be is a bad long term investment too. They still aren't making a profit, but at least they have some new prospects on the horizon. Until RedHat can take advantage of its position as the dominant Linux company.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Do you think Dell would have had the balls to ship a Linux box if not for the DOJ investigation? OEMs couldn't even preinstall a browser on their Windows boxes without MSFT's say so. Intel quashed a lot of their software plans because of MSFT. Everyone was under their thumb. From the looks of things that were discovered at the trial MSFT basically was dictating what a majority of the computer industry did.
If anyone believes that Dell would risked angering MSFT by selling Linux, a rereading of the Findings of the Fact is in order. MSFT played the OEMs with its Windows pricing scheme and does that played ball (Compaq, Gateway) were charged substantially less than others. IBM on the other hand would have pursued Linux regardless but I'm not so sure about Dell. Here's a Google cache of Bill G commenting on Dell from the MSFT trial days.
PS: I once interviewed with Dell and asked the why they didn't have a comprehensive Linux plan and the response was "We're waiting to see how things go before committing resources. Once someone shows it's a viable plan, we'll jump on it."
--
What Penguin and VA should do is find ways to differentiate themselves from the DELL and IBM Linux offerings. It's no longer enough just to say "our pre-install is slightly better". It needs to be a lot better, or they need to offer additional services that DELL and IBM don't offer.
Another good strategic move would be for VA and Penguin to partner or merge with a larger-scale manufacturing company, which is the "if you can't beat em, join em" strategy. Of course, if they want to remain small players, that's fine (although it would disappoint their shareholders, in the case of VA). There are plenty of small high-end hi-fi manufacturers who make kick-ass products at great expense to serve the audiophile market and could care less if they don't compete head-to-head with SONY.
Not to be confused with a marketroid, let's just say I'm a fan of Michael Porter, who is the leading expert in Competitive Strategy, and probably the most respected marketing professor at Harvard Business School. It pays to know your enemy ;)
"What I cannot create, I do not understand."
The entry level PowerEdge 1300 server is $1760 with RH vs. $2410 with Win2000; that's $650 cheaper, which is significant.
Hmm. Do you think this would have happened before Judge Jackson?
Yes, I do. Linux was growing at a phenominal rate before the whole anti-trust thing, and will continue to grow after it. While I don't doubt that M$ getting bitch-slapped (seems to be the work for the day here) has helped Linux win support, I do NOT believe that it is the sole reason. Linux is faster, more stable, and simply better for many jobs than Windows. And while Windows has it beat in some areas, Linux is improving, while Windows seems to be regressing (from the looks of their win2k joke).
I hope history doesn't record the Microsoft case as the reasong some unknown little operating system came into being, since Linux was on the way to overtaking Windows anyway.
Finkployd
Even though this is just some big names preinstalling RedHat in most cases, it'll go a damn long way toward helping the reputation of Linux in general.
I notice particularly, that they mention shipping Web/Proxy boxes to Lexus/Toyota.
This relates to something that I have been trying to push for in my LUG.
I wanted us to present Linux as a viable option to K-12 schools, who in a lot of cases are beginning to think seriously about doing things properly with regard to the internet, but the cost is too much! Using a free OS can help offset that a bit!
Only problem is, that when you tell most people about it, you mention RedHat, or other distros and various other names that they've never heard of, and you get nothing other than a blank look!
But now you can mention Dell, or particularly Big Blue, and they'll immediately have more confidence!
Sad, but true!
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
--
Many sysadmins that I know will always wipe the vendor pre-installation in favor of doing their own, just because there will always be something (partition choices, etc.) that they find to be "not quite the way they want it".
So, my question is: has anyone bought pre-loaded linux boxes from VA or other companies? How have you found the installation? Personally, none of these would do me much good because my distro of choice is Debian (just my preference!). However, lots of people blow away the factory installations of IRIX and Solaris to re-install the same thing, so I'm wondering how prevalent this will be with pre-installed Linux.
Also, I've seen where some vendors charge more for Linux instead of Windows...if this is the case, it seems silly to even offer the option. As another poster said, just give me the system with nothing on the hard disk at all, and let me do as I please. Of course, that would certainly make them difficult to support (I speak from experience building and reselling Windows PCs...some customers would want them without OSs, because they already owned Windows or something, but even in that case we'd still have to hook up a hard disk with an OS to test all the hardware).
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
In the days of redhat 5.2 (apollo), their distribution was praised for its great RPM technology. But ever since the 6.0 release, Redhat has been more aggressive in the market than anything else. The redhat distribution now focuses on the ease of installation and maintenance. By doing this, they are capturing the desktop (newbie?) market. Assuming that linux is the future (and it may not be: PCs are on the go. IAs are moving in.), Redhat needs to take the desktop market in order to win the general server share. Here's an example of why: how did Microsoft win the early server market? Not by pushing a better server product, but by winning the desktop market (windows...). The same people who are buying Redhat for their desktops, because they know no other linux, will buy Redhat for their servers, just out of convenience (and ignorance?). Maybe by acquiring openBSD, redhat could turn things around and put out a great, secure server linux.
I think that by making these moves they've gotten alot of news (man, look at their stock prices) and business partners (almost every big corporation "involved in the open-source revolution" ships with redhat linux, no other), but they've lost alot of support from the hardcore open source community. Now, a lot of people blacklist redhat, associating it with newbies and ignorance. But, as I said before, maybe they will push a good server linux too.
try here.
I suppose this news is responsible for RedHat's 20% stock price increase today. For those of you missed out on the IPO last year, now is still a good time to buy. I picked up a bunch in the teens last month and have been watching with glee as it has almost doubled.
The thing about redhat that wall street doesn't understand is they aren't going to go away. It's a safe company as far as I'm concerned. Their stock may be wild and crazy right now but it's a good long term investment. I think that their 300/share price earlier this year was just silly but it shows were they could be in a few years.
Damn it Jim, I'm just an engineer not a financial advisor!
-- Virtual Windows Project
--
Damn. MS MADE Kerberos what it is. MPEG4 is a seriously kick ass codec. Are you telling me Sonorsen should be sued for keeping its codec (the monopoly on Quicktime por... er... videos) prorietory? And MS is not trying to do anything to Palm. They are simply trying to compete in the market with a higher end product. To tell the truth, I would rather have the power of a WinCE device than the simplicity of a Palm, because I don't have much use for a device that simply keeps shedules. In this case MS really is innovating, trying to get the whole, "PC in your hand" thing going. While it is very effective, palm is simply trying to make a better day planner.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
BSDi offers systems with FreeBSD on them. BSDi or Linux are optional.
This all due to the acquisition of Telenet by BSDi.
That's a flat out lie. They simply started getting wind of what was happening with Linux and started trying to offer it to people. As well as the demand that was starting to creep up got them to start offering over 6 months ago. It was not widely known at first and was mainly on request, but now you can get it directly off the web site.
--And sektor spoke and said unto the people. Hey, buttwipe hand me the cheezeos.
- Linux
- Red Hat
- Red Hat
- Red Hat
- Dell
- strategic operating systems
- lexus and Toyota
- preloaded
- More on Linux
- Also by CmdrTaco
I thought Debian was Rob's distribution of choice? Has he switched? Is Red Hat dumping some extra cash (or cool toys) on the Geek Compound to receive this extra notice on Slashdot? . . . Or are the three repetitions of the Red Hat link just an accident?---
icq:2057699
seumas.com
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-ryan
"Any way you look at it, all the information that a person accumulates in a lifetime is just a drop in the bucket."
Apparently some of the managers were getting really sick of the BSOD. The techs installed Linux on their machines one night, and most of them didnt even notice. During a 'stragetic meeting' someone noted that the computer systems seemed much more reliable than before. Then the techs told them about the operating system switch. After that they decided they wanted to pass the improvement onto their customers by shipping Linux!
Abashed the Devil stood,
And felt how awful goodness is
Now that these giant computer manufacturers are preloading Linux, what incentive does Joe Consumer have to buy from a company like Penguin? Those companies found a niche and started selling products. They were here first! Are they just going to get shoved aside or remain small? Or do you think that they still have a chance to become major manufacturers while the older companies are still getting their acts together?
it's green.
Hey, what is wrong with BSD. I recently erased my Linux partition (yes I know I'm an OS slut) and replaced it with a FreeBSD partition. I installed via FTP, and in general, FBSD seems much less chaotic to me. It's the first UNIX I'm actually thinking of keeping around. The point is, that Dell users would probably be better served by BSD. There are more experianced sysadmins familiar with BSD, and more high-profile sites run BSD. Also, it seems to be much easier to manage and update for the thread-bare sysadmin.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Out of curiosity, are any retailers offering to ship systems preloaded with *BSD, or even making noise about doing so down the road?
The ultimate goal, recall, is to have systems shipped with your choice of operating system - not just with any given one.
Speaking of Linux distros, I was recently reading the Microcenter ad (a big chain store) and noticed many Linux distros. Favorites like RedHat, Corel, Debian, TurboLinux, FreeBSD... yes, FreeBSD was listed as a Linux distro.
Oh the humanity.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Having a judge bail you out is not exactly something to be proud of. In fact, the Linux community should be ashamed if MS loses this case, because they'll never know if they won on basis of superior product tactics, or they just had Bill's head handed to them on a silver platter. I strongly believe that current laws don't work too well for computer companies due to the nature of the product. There is nothing about a cable line that prevents competitors from using it, but almost everything makes OSs incompatible with each other. Almost by definition, widespread computing needs a monopoly-class OS.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Heh. Check out this guy's posting history.
I can't believe he got this far with only a few negative moderations.
Laptops!
Laptops!
Laptops!
I want to see laptops with Linux and in the sub $2000 category too, with DVD roms, 100 base T, v.90 modems, just like MS bribes the laptop makers into doing.
Mind you, I don't stray terribly far fram slashdot. slashdot, freshmeat, lwn, linux.org.uk and sourceforge are my main net abodes, though I do visit many of the sites linked of slashdot and I will occasionally go on wild goose chases via google (mind you, google tends to tame them a little:). But netscape crash on me? Very rare. And this is with fortified rh6.1 netscape + flash.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
We also just bought about $70,000 of servers from Dell. We bought a bunch of their 2450 servers and four of their PowerApp 100 machines.
All are well made and came perfectly preconfigured with Red Hat 6.2 and work just fine.
One annoyance, however, is that the 2450 servers have an intergrated Ultra3 RAID controller OEM'd from Adaptec. They don't supply source for the drivers and the precompiled modules only work with specific kernel versions. I emailed their support about this and was informed by their tech that they only support the hardware and I should "talk to Linux" about my kernel version upgrade problems. They have a few support problems to work out I suspect.
My problem with Dell and their pre-loading of Linux is that the selected models they have with it are config locked. You usually can't even add memory to the system. You take it as they spec'd it out or you don't get linux on it. But at least they ship it. We just switched to Gateway at work and I had to order my Athlon with 98 and Office. There was no choice for linux so I had to pay the MS tax.
--
Hmm. Do you think this would have happened before Judge Jackson? Do you think the consumer was hurt by M$? The difficulty is quantifying the damages because the harm was the with holding of choice.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
.. I've built kiosks around Win95 and got what I deserved- Daily calls from the client- "The screen is all blue.."
Maybe you should try a different line of work then... because it would appear that you don't know quite what you're doing.
SImon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Well, maybe one day they'll stop loading Microsoft products on all their machines. One can only hope.
What would you rather they bundled on them?
Whatever I choose. Which for now, as Linux still doesn't hack it for your average Joe, is Windows.
Not that I'm your average joe, but after spending 4 hours a few weeks back installing an ne2000 compatible network card and getting it to work on Mandrake 7, I don't have the time to screw about with Linux. Not to mention the fact that to get Mandrake to install, I had to futz with the BIOS before and after installation to get it to work (didn't like LBA mode... pshaww).
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
I find this story dubious at best.
If you claim it was a desktop machine, you are clearly as great an idiot as the other posters think you are.
If it was a fileserver, well it is not unlikely that some techs somewhere at Dell did something like this, but I strongly doubt that had much to do with the above announcement.
Regards,
Ben
My usual seat in the cluetrain is at A HREF="http://pub4.ezboard.com/biwethey.ht
At the end of today's trading:
RHAT +18.97%
CORL +13.56%
LNUX +12.35%
ok, here's a bunch of non-caps text to get around the anti-caps lameness filter. Which I didn't even know existed...
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