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Free Stripped-Down 3D Studio Max
mikpos writes: "A division of Autodesk is apparently going to be releasing a free (speech)
stripped-down version of 3D Studio Max, geared towards game developers and
users. The product is going to be called gMax, and
Autodesk might be licencing some customised versions of it to specific game
companies." Sounds like there might be a spate of "genuine free-speech" 3-D modelers in the works, with the release of Blender 2.0 as well. Update: 07/31 05:35 PM by S : Seems to have moved link.
(I know, Unreal papa Tim Sweeny has a Max->Unreal translator inside Unrealed, but I have yet to meet a programmer who can figure out how he did it :)
Are you kidding me?? That's an extremely simple algorithm - at the simplest level, all it takes is subdividing all the polygons until everything is a triangle - problem solved. A triangle can't be concave.
That said, I've never used Unrealed, but I'm guessing this is how it does it (or partially, anyway - it can stop subdividing into triangles if the polygon it's subdividing is now convex).
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Walk among the vast line of the gamers out there and ask them if this really makes a difference? As the article pointed out "What a brilliant idea. Half the world's Mod makers are probably using illegal full versions of 3D Studio MAX already, so it's not as if Autodesk is going to lose any money on the deal." I guess not, they only have thoughts of making some, and so be it. They have to make their money, but don't let them think i'm going to appreciate something that they should have been doing in the first place. No, there just trying to get in the good graces of the gaming community by offering a half-version of it and saying it is "free". woohoo! "Is Autodesk trying to put the software pirates out of business or something? Nope, there's a simple explanation, but a surprising one", the article goes on to say. They claim that, and get this:), "this free, cut-down version of 3D Studio MAX is for game players". Well, leave it to me to express my gratitude.
Oops.... sorry to rain on your parade, but I was at siggraph and got to play with gMax first hand.
I can't wait to get my hands on it. I think it will greatly bolster those in the 3d community who want to learn 3D Studio Max.
I have been a registered 3D Studio User since 1992. Recently I have been looking for an alternative such as blender to teach at a local university. I wanted a free program so students wouldn't have to go borke trying to learn the basics. Now gMax gives me the opportunity to not have to learn a new interface and 3D paradigm.Sorry if I sound like a nut, but I've also used Softimage, Maya, Houdini, and Lightwave. I find that interface is what holds people back in 3d. Maya is my next logical step in 3D, while Houdini is way above my head. Softimage and Lightwave, while impressive, seem to dialogue-box you to death for no apparent reason. Text based gui's have no place in my workflow, so for now at least 3D Studio Max is where I stay... Until Maya lowers their cost of entry.
"This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."
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Actually, Kinetix/AutoDesk have been saying for years that they don't mind you using a warez-copy of 3DSMAX as long as you don't use it commercially (quite a sensible attitude, btw).
.sig
They probably make most of their money from things like support and training anyways, so why should they really care about giving away their software (also the same principle by which a number of linux companies make their money, btw)?
As an added bonus, a lot of people who end up working in the games industry nowadays start out by making player models and building levels for their own enjoyment. Once they join a certain company, it's in AutoDesk's best interest to have them be familiar with 3DSMAX, as it's always easier to use software your employers already know (that's the way WordPerfect made it big in the 80's, remember?)
This is not a
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
> Don't get me started on Carrara. OK, it's a nice app, can do most things
;-)
> reasonably well, but it is not half of what 3DS or Maya is... some of us actually
> need some of the more advanced functions in MAX. But for a quick fun
> experimental scene or something, Carrara is great...
Of course you're right about that--Carrara wasn't designed to be a professional 3D app, it was meant more as an enthusiast/light work sort of thing. But like I said, for the uses most people would use something like 3D Studio for, Carrara really shines. If you want to do 3D work but for fun not as a real 3D artist, Carrara is definitely the way to go. Very few people need MAX's more advanced features for light work like modelling for games, so the whole ease-of-use and intuitiveness of Carrara's interface is an attractive feature in that market segment.
I've used MAX and Maya--on an, ahem, unofficial trial basis--and although I'm by no means a slouch when it came to learning them, Carrara just won me over instantly for the sort of enthusiast work I do. What can I say, MetaCreations knows how to make a crisp and intuitive GUI; ever since Kai's Power Tools, I've fallen in love with their software. And for the work I've done on--no, I'm not kidding--box covers for adult videos, KPT Goo is the ultimate tool. Nothing restores the perkiness of breasts that are flattened by horizontal positions so easily as a little supple stretching with Kai's Goo...
But, I digress. For pro 3D work, I'd imagine that Maya 3 would be the ideal, especially since Pixar's RenderMan interfaces with it to speed up and distribute rendering across a network. Any opinions on MAX versus Maya?
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
Blender is actually Open Source (GPL) as of version 2.0, its only real problem is a lack of import/export vectors.
You can't win a fight.
Oh wait, no, I was wrong, kinda, significant parts of it appear to be going open source (rendering daemon and other bits), but not entirely OS yet it seems.
You can't win a fight.
My (completely conspiratorial and possibly completely incorrect) reasoning for this conclusion:
- gMax is just an announcement at the moment - no
.tar.gz or .zip files to download - if it was a real announcement, the site would be /.'ed already - gMax will only be available after the winter release of the next Max - plenty of time to get a source release bashed out after a knee-jerk announcement
- Blender has gone from 0-100mph in a frightening amount of time - and it's free. In a year's time it could start eating into non-free competitors' profits
- plenty of modellers are sick of Windows crashes
- Linux is just starting to become a viable modelling/rendering platform for commercial 3d games
Put it all together and it's an interesting hypothesis. Unless an Autodesk exec can show me an internal e-mail from weeks before the showAs I said, it's only a theory. I have another theory - ahem ahem....
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
It's not being ported to Linux. It's being open sourced. There's a difference.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Sorry, kiddies, but this is not going to be a thing you can just download and play with. You have to be a game developer, and I mean a professional studio to get this. I seriously doubt that individual developers will be able to legally get a copy of this. My guess is that there's probably other strings attached as well. A company like Autodesk ain't just gonna let this thing go for nothing to whoever wants it.
I get demo CD of 3D Studio MAX frequently - not demos of the program, but basically a nice Director-made ad for it. Autodesk puts it out to all prospective clients. (I can't even remember asking for it...) It's rather nice, but I'm a LightWave man, and I detest the MAX interface. (Although its got some very nice features.)
So, this announcement really doesn't mean a whole lot from what I understand. Only a select few developers (probably companies that either are on the fence about MAX or use another package like Maya or LightWave) will get the free version. If you want a free (as in beer) 3D package that actually is capable of some high-end stuff, use Blender.
Seems to me, they're saying that you have to prove yourself worthy in order to get one of these licenses, plus pay a whole lot of money. So, even though they seem to say that they're open sourcing it, they're really just loosening the reigns a little on a still closed source program.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
I think we need to be careful about what you consider a "port". For instance, if I remember correctly only Maya's rendering engine was ported to linux. This means you still need a bunch of SGIs to actually do the artistic stuff on, but you can just set up a linux rendering farm once you have the scenes finished.
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
As far as I remember, this thing STILL is Windows-only. Since it is going Opensource, it might be possible to port gMax to Linux, but I doubt the OSS version is going to be one usable for "real" 3D artists designing games. What most likely will happen, is that someone will take the OSS gMax code, port it to Linux (which makes for a pretty easy port to BeOS I might add) and then Kinetix will use that code to port the rest of 3D Studio over to compete at the lower end of the high end 3D modelers on Linux. Quite clever, really, let the OSS community do the port for you without actually releasing important code. Of course this is good for both parties. Kinetix gets a linux port without expending much effor (since any of the other stuff in 3D Studio MAX will probably be high level stuff dependant on the lower already-ported layers rather than on the OS) and the OSS community gets a 3D modeler that doesn't have a braindead interface. Say what you will for the "efficiency" of Blender, 3D Studio MAX has a nice interface, great workflow, AND an assload of hotkeys.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Price isn't everything. One of the reasons these packages can cost so much is that software purchaces are 100% tax deductible. Microsoft et al. lobbied HARD for that one. Because it's not amortized over time, companies really get a bonus here. So to a company making a couple million a year, a hundred grand worth of software after deductions is almost free.
Also, to (badly) quote AutoCAD for Dummies (tm): "If you made the cost of the software back in a month, you're probably not using it right". Artists for the most part aren't the target here. It's engineering and design companies. You think 3D Studio is freaking expensive, check out a commercial liscence for AutoCAD 2000, unfortunately only available on Windows (after decades on Linux). BLETCH. My GF is in Mechanical Engineering and bitches about Windows constantly, but it's got AutoCAD and Linux doesn't. :(
..don't panic
POV-Ray is a freeware opensource ray tracer. It is very well supported in the community as there are many different patches that inhance POV-Ray in itself. Not only is this program open source and freeware, it's on every damn operating system I can think of (Very short list hehe) But you'll find it for Windows, Linux, Macs, Amiga, DOS, etc.
There are several others such as, sPatch (kind if dead, but if you can find it you'll love it. It's a modeller that lets you export to POV-Ray or export DXF files.)
Another fun little program which I haven't had the time to play with is Blue Moon Rendering Tools. Read this for more info on BMRT.
Finally there is Radiance. I haven't had time to mess with this program, but it can make stunningly realistic images through the programs usage of realistic lighting. This is only for UNIX users at the moment. There is no known port (that I know about) that is in the works.
Well that's just a list of some 3d goodies. I've wanted to toy around with 3ds Max for a while. Sure I could have warezed it off, but I've given up on that. Now I can play around with a free stripped down version of 3dsmax. Yippie skippy or something.
-PovRayMan
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Check out my blackbox styles
Well, it looks like I was *way* off on that one. The press release I had made it looks as though this would be only released to game companies, not for public use.
Evidently what Autodesk/Discreet are really doing is seeding the market. The same people who make a quick-and-dirty model in Quake today could be graphic designers and MAX onsumers tomorrow. It's basically acknowledging that a lot of people use illegal copies of MAX for this already, so why not use that for marketing advantage.
You have to hand it to Discreet, this is a good way of marketing your product early on.
I truly wonder how much outright piracy is responsible for releases like this. It seems that many companies are offering stripped-down free versions of their software, and my guess is that a large number of such releases are to minimize the desire to pirate the full program. Ontrack/Mijenix, for example, released a free version of some of their products, with limited functionality, and several more companies have started similar measures this past year.
/. in a thread about graphics workstations.
One thing I've noticed is that these products which get limited free versions are usually ones which are heavily pirated. I suppose one line of reasoning is that if a version with all the commonly-used features is freely available, that people will be less likely to pirate the full version with all the less-commonly-used or only-needed-by-professionals features. 3D Studio MAX is among the most commonly pirated 3D apps, despite the dongle protection scheme (which was cracked within weeks). Heck, I even downloaded it to try it out after people were discussing it here on
But for the things most people would use it for, there are better tools. My favorite is MetaCreations' 3D package called Carrarra. Carrarra is an integrated offering combining the features of Ray Dream Studio and Infini-D into one easy-to-use and intuitive interface. The thing I've always loved about MetaCreations is that their user interfaces are not only eye candy, they're easy to learn and practically self-explanatory. If anyone is interested in 3D graphics and wants something far easier to use than 3D Studio MAX, but still powerful and versatile, check out http://www.metacreations.com/products/carrara/ for their under-appreciated but very fine product. I use it all the time for making game models, and it'll probably whip the hell out of any stripped down version of MAX.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
Since it's open source, it had better not crash as much as MAX R3 does, which barely runs on my system with 128M of ram.
What OS? It hasn't crashed once for me under Win2k (384mb of RAM), and I use it a lot.
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I think the el-cheapo version (!) doesn't is missing some cool plugins like the cloth thingy...
ClothReyes? Damn, that's a cool plugin. I played with it on somebody else's machine, and it kicks ass. But I didn't know about the full release being $16,000. Damn.
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I wonder what exactly they're taking out. Probably that "3D modeling" feature or whatever they call it...
People who don't want to pay Microsoft twice for an Operating system that finally doesn't crash (as much) as their other failures.
:-), hence no Microsoft tax. My copy of Win2k is from my job's site license. And I run Linux most of the time anyway.
Pay? Yeah, my ass. No money out of my pocket has *ever* gone to Microsoft. Every computer I've bought with my own money I've built myself (or my uncle put it together for me... he can get parts real cheap
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It is about time, as it is I am getting tired of this pirated version (shush, don't tell anyone, heh! Betcha there are more pirated versions out there then legal versions, fact is that a program that costs $3000+ for the student version is more then 20% of my households annual budget, in other words, its far to expensive!) that has none of the standard included textures maps! Why in the world would someone rip the friggin texture maps, without those 3DSM's usability drops by around 40% (unless you are experiences enough to make your own texture maps, but if I was that experiences I would be making enough money as a proffesional 3d modeler to be able to afford the regular version of 3DSM).
::everybody applauds the wonderus Rhino3d:: which has an obvious and easy to use interface (read: nothing like 3DSM's interface which is just plain hard to use), 3DSM is almost useless without a help file!
In addition they also ripped the help files from the pirated verison, ugh! The friggin help files! That makes the program mucho harder to use, especialy considering all of the tutorial sites consider you smart enough to have read the manual and to know the basics.
Compared to a program such as Rhino3d
Anyways, I hope this "stripped down" version has no great deficiences, unlike adobe's LE and SE versions which where USELESS.
And I mean USELESS, those things are pieces of garbage, no good at all. Windows Paintbrush has better interfaces and useability then those versions of photoshop (and I should know, I have had to do all of the graphics work for finals
using nothing but paintbrush!)
All in all, the texture maps are going to have to be included, as well as all of the animation capabilities, and the IK, and well, I don't really know what they are going to be able to cut from the program (surly not the modeler, the modeler in 3DSM is non-existent, that is what Rhinoceros 3d is for)
It had better still be able to output AVI files (or else I will have no use for it, heh)
Of course Discreet (the old ktx.com site was better, more info) is also building customer loyalty by doing this, simular to the way that Microsoft gives "free" computers to schools (then again, so does Apple) it gets people used to the 3DSM interface. (LOL, used to, interface, and 3DSM in the same sentance don't mix well!)
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
I'm sorry, but I can't resist spouting this troll:
;-)
Is this security through obscurity directed towards piracy? Think on this: Make your program so damned hard to use without full documentation, that no one will pirate it. Doh! Of course someone will just scan-in the manual and distribute it anyway
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
You have a good point, but maybe reasoning goes more like this: if people use a stripped-down free version, fewer warez sites will carry a full version which is only more useful to professionals, and therefore the people who would want to pirate the full version will have a much harder time finding it since fewer warez sites bother. That seems like a fair line of reasoning to me, although there's no actual data to back it up. Only time will tell if such strategies will work. But, when you charge several thousand dollars for a program, you've got to expect that only companies and well-to-do pros will buy it; individuals and we poor people [sound of tiny violins] will pirate it.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
But I didn't know about the full release being $16,000. Damn.
Jesus, I'm a retard. You were talking about Maya, not 3DS. *slap*
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What the press release says is that they will a release a stripped-down version of 3DSMAX:
.sig
"to game players for no charge on the web"
It's free, is what that means. However, if you're a game developers, you will have to pay a licence fee if you want to release this stripped down MAX with your game as a level/model editor. And for quite a large (I would imagine) extra sum, AutoDesk/Kinetix/Discreet will customize the stripped down MAX to work with your particular game.
So it is good news, especially for people with shares in the company, as this stunt will no doubt increase the position of 3DSMAX in the very lucrative gaming industry.
This is not a
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
I've tried every open source modeller I could find, and not a single one of them (besides Blender, but that's not open source) even comes close to the point of useability for real projects. Most don't even come close to the point of useability for little tiny projects. An open sourced 3D Studio would be a godsend.
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You'we wight. We need to be vewy qwiet. We'll fool them into thinking that we won't really DO anything with their pwoducts, then, just when they least expect it and they welease all theiw products open souwce, we'll spwing the twap and add all the featuwes back!!!
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CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Reyes-Infografica, one of the largest makers of plugins for 3DSmax also recently released about a half million lines of code for several products, including what appears to be several released and unreleased plugins for Max. It includes things like 2d/3d paint. musculature based facial animation, and lip-sync software. Depending on the licences involved, I wonder how much of this could find it's way into gMax?
Open Source too? Good points on the pirating of the program. I myself actually got a version a while ago, couldn't figure out how to use it, then uninstalled it. Thing is that I can afford it now, but I don't want to buy it because of that. Maybe the free version will change my mind. What would really suck though is if all the people that play quake are now able to make realistic replicas of themselves and you have a bunch of fat 32 year old guys running around in Team Fortress.
This is really really incredible news. It's really shocking that Discreet/Kinetix would give away anything like this for free. The high end 3d market has been exclusively for those with deep pockets.. I'm wondering how feature-rich the gMax version of MAX will be.
.. I wouldn't be surprised to see gMax evolve into the 3d equivalent of GIMP for Linux. When I get my hands on it, the first thing I'm gonna start trying to do is hack away to get all those features back into it that Kinetix took out from MAX! This could be a huge, rewarding, and enjoyable project.
:)
Just the fresh blood in the 3d scene will be good to have (more people = better/more 3d tools and support), but the thing that really blows me away is the fact that it's OPEN SOURCE (!?!)
I can't wait to see SGI's response, now that they've annoucned Maya for Linux.. the difference being that Maya is going to cost you a big chunk of change.. gMaya anyone?
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I think you're missing the point here a bit.
These companies are concerned about having professional versions of the software flying around out there because it is possible someone might get real commerical profit from using it. It might even lower their ability to procecute in a criminal trial a company using it if the company can prove there's lots of other people using the software that aren't being hassled.
The real benefit from having a noncommerical version of the software that's highly usable is what I call "Wordperfect Syndrome". Wordperfect, back in the day, was one of the most pirated programs I could think of. This pirating led to the software becoming framiliar to almost anyone with a PC.
Now, you're a business, say, and hire people to, uh, process words. You're going to buy the package they know, because you can't afford to get nailed for using pirated software (and you should have your ass nailed for making money off pirated software, IMHO). The reason you bought the software was because your user base knew it, and a good percentage of them picked it up through pirate or quasi-legal copies.
This is like the widespread pirating of 3D studio and AutoCad that goes on in Academia - students learn the high power tools, then when they have their engineering degrees and get their high paying jobs, what do you think gets bought? Of course, AutoCad and 3D studio. I see 3D studio being used in a lot more places than you might think - it's used a LOT for animating engineering drawings produced in Autocad, as the two work seamlessly together.
In any case, the company makes no more money by getting rid of piracy. All they've done is transform it from piracy to using a free version
EXACTLY. Now all those future purchasers of your software don't have to act like felons (in the US, anyhow). This is a smarter move than you might think.
..don't panic
No, he is not kidding. He is speaking of convex polyhedra, you are speaking about convex polygons
Oh, sorry. My bad.
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This is great news... 3D Studio MAX is a great program, and I plan on purchasing the full version as soon as I can afford it.
... but the article is misinformed. "World's most expensive modeller?" Hardly. Retail price is ~$3500, usually sells for $2500-3000. Maya, on the other hand, is in the vicinity of $10,000. Oh well.
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The press release says you "license the right to distribute 3d studio gMAX with their title". This means it's free to download for all, but if a developer modifies it and wants to put it on the same CD as the game, they have to pay a license fee.
;p
The only other licence fee is if you decide to purchase "Game Packs", which sound very familiar to plugins. Personally, I'd consider game packs/plugins separate from the main product, and I'm not bothered that they're charging for them. Besides, someone out there in the community is bound to make freeware versions of game packs for those of you opposed to supporting a company who is releasing a product for free
or at least dont use Multitasking under Win95/98.
No, just plain don't run MAX under 95/98. It's just asking for trouble - the OS tends to buckle under the strain.
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On Sourceforge, they have a section about modeling with 57 entries. Most of these are libraries, converters, CAD-programs etc, but there are 19 modelers among them! And AFAIK there are several OS modelers not on Sourceforge. There is at least Blender, so there are at least twenty OS modelers in the works. Ah, the joys of OS. I have no idea, whether some may merge, I doubt it. Probably a lot will die or never see the light of day.
I've probably said this before...
"Free as in Speech" is propaganda. GPL software is more restricted than speech in most places.
The "freedoms" given/taken with GPL do not correspond with speech freedoms/restrictions.
"Free as in Beer" may actually fit better, but the meaning of the metaphor is may change depending if you think beer is wonderful or not.
If the reason for these phrases is because of the non exact nature of the word "free", why not just use better words than "free"? Yes these words exist. Even simple phrases need less explaining than speech and beer.
"Open" means everything and nothing.
"Unrestricted" implies complete freedom without implying anything about cost.
"Liberated" is could be political, but is still better than "as speech"
"Costless" requires no explanation, unlike the beer phrase.
And neither "free" nor any of the above imply the ability to see the source of a work.
The easiest solution is simply to use "source" as what is unrestricted instead of software.
The english equivilant to the various source
phrases would be:
"Free as in speech" : Unrestricted source code.
"Free as in beer" : Costless software
this is going to bring a LOT of people over to linux.
case in point: i've got a friend doing some high level 3d modeling using apps like Maya and SoftImage on his SGI Indigo2. I asked him (faceciously) why he didn't blow away IRIX on that box and go with linux, which is, IMNSHO a signifigantly better OS than IRIX. He told me it was basically because ther was almost a non-existant amount of graphics support for linux.
Up till now i would have agreed with him. But with the recent ports of toonz, maya, and now 3DSM, that's all changing. There are a ton of people out there who no longer have any excuse to stick with windows (Irix yes, windows no). While 3d in linux does have a little ways to go...this is a gigantic step in the right direction.
Now it's time to sit back and watch how this affects NAN.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
polygon and vertex manipulation
basic animation controls
texture mapping controls
that's it. As far as I can tell, there is no immediate application for NURBS (non-uniform rational b-slines; see Rhino3d for more info). I think that the PS2 is the only gaming platform that supports them, and even there it is too slow for much.
I think that if Kinetix can make a really nice, STABLE version of MAX for free, more power to them: I'm gonna stick with Rhino3d (export > 3ds) and using MAX for it's great material making abilities and the video post.
Rami
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rJames.org - illustration