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Microcontroller Linux
allanj writes "Have you seen the Clinux stuff running of the uCsimm modules? They are pretty little machines with a version of Linux that, with kernel and the entire filesystem needed to boot, comes in at only 900 Kb. The whole thing took 30 minutes from initial power-up to first boot. Some (quite basic) assembly of hardware required though. The best part? The entire computer fits in a 30 pin RAM socket, with 8 Megs RAM, 2 Megs Flash ROM and an ethernet controller chip. It's powered by a Motorola DragonBall, so it's not for too processor-intensive tasks, but most things run just fine. Oh, and it has a gcc cross-compiler pre-packaged to run off your host system, so development can start immediately."
Well on a local (yes it's 10.0.0.something) network it shouldn't be too much of a problem. And I don't think you want to run ssh(d) on the thing if you want your coffee to be ready in a day or two :)
0x or or snor perron?!
especially since it already comes with one substandard telnet client... telnet.exe
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
New from Maxis: SimmBeowulf!
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
I've done a few product designs currently selling in volume, based on the Microchip PIC...
With 2K (instruction, 14 bits per) linear code address space, some chips using bank swapping for more, and a linear RAM space of only 128 bytes, again bank swapping on some larger parts.
Microchip now have some larger parts, but the popular 14 bit opcode parts have 11 bits for code addresses and 7 bits for ram addresses. Great for small projects coded in asm, of really small projects coded in C... but it ain't gonna run linux.
There's also a few issues with the instruction set that burn up that limited code space. You don't get conditional branches, only skips past jump instructions. There's no add or subtract with carry input, so you're going to use many extra cycles for 16 bit math, and it gets really ugly for 32 bit math. Kludged indirect addressing (FSR and INDIRECT memory locations) with only a single pointer for the entire chip also isn't so hot. Despite being labeled "RISC", the chips are a classical accumulator architecture, even if you call is "W" and "WREG" instead of "A" and "ACC". The only thing RISC about the chip is a very small number of instructions.
Of course, you do get low power, OTP eprom with in-circuit programming, lots of built-in peripherals, pretty low cost, some low-cost dev tools, and they tend to actually be available in small and large quantity... but there's no way it's gonna run linux.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
It runs on The Force, actually. So does my computer, but it needed an adapter.
What kind of submission is that, anyway? "Hey everyone! Have you geeks, 'leet haxors and script kiddies heard about [INSERT PRESS RELEASE HERE]? I don't know about you 'k001 d00d5', but I'd sure like to get my hands on one of THOSE. In fact, I even heard that you can get a early adopter version from MegaGloboCorp[tm] at this link here [INSERT LINK]. Visa and Mastercard Accepted!"
-jpowers
-jpowers
Make is a general purpose program, and need not be used for only c programs.
In fact, make is an excellent choice, because it allows for dependcy checking. ie: there is a empty pot in place, water avaiable, and enough coffee beans/grounds. Sure you can do it with custom code, but make does a good job of that.
Umm, and how many ROM's did you need for that?
MacOS doesn't count, since you need to ROM's to make it work, too.
George
What I'm questioning is the use of linux in things that are an order of magnitude smaller. Like cell phones, handheld PDAs and personal location systems. The interfaces are generally dictated by the microcontroller and/or whatever ASIC might be in the system. Hard disks are out of the question.
Running traditional linux apps seems to be an unlikely goal - I'm not paying to run a webserver from my cell phone and X applications are not ideal for a 128x72 LCD screen.
Quite possibly, the need for a real filesystem might be a good dividing line. Where you need such a thing, linux gives you lots of goodies for providing and using the filesystem. In a system which has no such need, linux looks too much like an overwight dinosaur.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
This is definately not an application for linux, 30 mins just to load the kernel? Why should you need inetd and various services in a micro-controller?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
That's the limiting factor. You're right; obviously, you couldn't fit Linux in 2K words of code. So you have to expand the available code space. This is of course impossible -- the PIC is only capable of executing instructions from its internal store.
But it's possible to hang external memory off a PIC, whether it be a Dallas iButton or a more traditional RAM or ROM chip; and if you tried, you could probably build an interpreter to fit in the PICs internal instruction space, to execute "instructions" stored in this off-chip memory.
So yes, you could build a machine that ran Linux using a PIC as the processor; but Linux wouldn't be actually on board the PIC itself. Still, there are some nice small SMT EEPROM chips around, and you could fit one of those plus an SMT PIC on a pretty damn small board...
Incidentally, some of the newer PICs (e.g. the PIC16C77, I think) are not OTP; they're flash. Sweet.
Quite possibly, the need for a real filesystem might be a good dividing line. Where you need such a thing, linux gives you lots of goodies for providing and using the filesystem. In a system which has no such need, linux looks too much like an overwight dinosaur.
While linux isn't the smallest kernel available, it can be pretty small. The kernel used in ucLinux usually compiles to around 300k. One of the largest aspects of linux on desktops, though, is glibc. uclinux uses a stripped-down libc instead. This means that while it doesn't take much work to port most apps, not much will simply recompile for ucLinux. I have found busybox, the util suite used on the debian rescue disks, to work well in ucLinux.
ucLinux is definitely not designed to run desktop apps on small CPUs. It's more like a happy medium between the ultra-tiny kernels and the compatibility of the standard linux kernel.
-- 2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2
I think there is a niche for a beastie like this in devices with limited production runs that need versatile and sophisticated behavior and network connectivity.
I don't think they make much sense today for mass consumer applications like cell phones, because at the kinds of volumes consumer devices are sold in you can afford more software development, but at the prices they are sold at you can't afford the per unit hardware costs. On the other hand, there are many kinds of high value industrial machinery and scientific instrumentation, which are produced singly or in only thousands of units per year. In that sort of device, this kind of unit makes a lot of sense. Ethernet makes this scenario extremely sweet -- you can control your devices through SSH over commodity network cable if you want, or embed a tiny web server giving you the machine's status and history.
I work in the public health arena. Lots of places are spraying pesticides for West Nile Virus. It would be nice to capture GPS data and machine telemetry for later transfer to a database and GIS for regulatory reporting and performance analysis. I could imagine coming in at the end of the day and removing a cartridge containing the device's brains, and connecting the device to an Ethernet hub. Kind of like synching your palm pilot. A few KLOCs of Python written for a Linux box would probably suffice to do everything needed.
The problem is that for my industry the economics of the unit don't quite work out. It needs a bit more memory and it'd have to come in at under $100 a piece, $50 would start to be the no-brainer level. If something like the ucSimm were produced on an industrial scale, it probably would cost much, much less. I suppose that higher production runs and a few years of cranking the Moore's law cycle, they might eventually shrink in size and cost to within an order of magnitude of today's PICs. That would be revolutionary.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
There is another freeware OS for microcontrollers: uCos. I don't know what they wopuld like it to be called, but everyone I know calls it "mu-cous".
And just how it this different? Perhaps telnet enables its compression engine upon detecting the string "su" flowing through the wires. Or maybe you just disallow remote root logins (which I never understood).
Ryan
It isn't, we had a live demo !
That's it. I am suing Internet. Your refusal to listen to whatever I have to say as if it were spoken by God himself will get you removed from Internet.
I know what the University of California is. I know what the Greek letter mu is. But it will be a cold day in hell before I pronounce C-SIMM as anything but "U-C SIMM."
(Is it me, or is this whole karma freeze thing awesome? I could troll at Score 2 all day.)
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Blarg. Another one. Why do people insist on making these proprietary things which nobody finds usefull?
I'm trying to research a project which requires embedded technology. It must be very low power, and modular etc. What I really need is a low power compactpci cpu card. Everyone and their brother just makes 3e6 Ghz Pentium III Cpu modules (which you can use to economically heat your house by the way). I want _under a watt_. This means ARM, or m-core, or dragonball etc (drool.... NEC VR?). Does anybody make low power cpu modules for compactpci?? Geez, seems like there must be a market for it. Why hasn't anybody done it yet?
ARM makes a development platform which does compact pci, but it seems like nobody does a production platform. What gives? Are we poor bastards who can't afford to have PCBs made for us, or buy arm processors in lots of a thousand just out of luck? WTF? Are small powerful microprocessors just for consumer gadgets? Why must we use gigantomongous processors in all our embedded applicatons? SAVE THE ERGS!!!
Anybody know of any ultra low power compact pci boards?
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so, you are interrested in such a project. well, i have to devellope a "on board" system for a robotic serial controlled wheelset. this means I have to design, install, create a single board/card linux system with wavelan(should get connected to the internet), rs323 port(to control the set of wheels), and camera... not that big, but any direction, help, etc would be extremelly welcome... so please, mail your idea's or whatever to me [ fenux@oxygenetic.com ] (or mail them steven v. -roeselaarsestraat 186c - 8890 moorslede - belgium) ow a little detail, i will probably need to be able to run java, because (i like java and because) i want to be able to use the networking power of it, prove it is actually able to run java on linux( to convince some teachrer, not only to move to linux for c, but also for java etc) so thanks in advance
The 512K had a 400K floppy. The Plus had a 800K.
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Consumer applications always go second. It's the industrial market that brings REAL money.
The proper way to do this, of course, would be to use HTCPCP. :)
:)
Note to moderators: ":)" == attempt to be humorous, even if the joke is getting old
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Yeah, I figured it out a few minutes after I posted... :)
Still, many people were confused about the boot time, and "It will be useless until it boots faster" posts modded up didn't help much.
Just trying to clarify things a bit.
-- 2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2
Wow, I can't believe you have to recompile your coffee every time you make a new pot. Things like coffee strength or number of cups should really be run-time (brew-time?) options that you could put in your .coffeerc file or something.
I just discovered this myself, and of course at the .com site my client won't send a cookie, so I would be there AC. I'll surf the .org baby, this is were the action's at!
"a powerful and unexpected ally..."
The things I look for in a microcontroller OS are stuff like..
A small footprint
Lightweight realtime multitasking (if multitasking is required)
Rapid boot (millseconds)
Persistent state support
Will fit in a single flash chip with space for the application
Hosts whatever protocol stack is going in the product (stuff like GSM, IS95, TCP/IP, IS707 seem to be the usual suspects).
Most importantly.. A really really good remote debugger, cross target development environment and totally uncrashable kernel
So could someone clue me in as to why I should use something like this rather than say Nucleus?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
GUI Telnet ?????
What do you need a GUI for a program emulating a terminal for?
actually, I didn't mean SSH. I mean, the process should be :
ndfa$ telnet coffee
Trying 10.1.1.25
Connected
uClinux 2.0.38.1pre7
username: coffee
password:
$ su - root
Password:
# make_coffee -strength 10 -cups 3
Making coffee now
Of course, this still doesn't solve the problem of needing to be root to run the make_coffee program.
--
Do a custom install off of the Windows95 CD, get rid of all the excess junk you don't need and then check the HD space.
Then after loading, thow away the "Online Services" folder and pitch IE 1.0 or whatever that browser is.
Install Arachne or IE 3.0, Telnet, and the FTP program of your choice.
If done right, this will easily be under 100 meg, which is the smallest size I've ever gotten any Linux distro with X-windows to.
If done even better, it should be under 80 meg as well.
Yes, and I ran Windows 95 betas under 4 megs of ram on a dx2/66.
That proves nothing though, since such Operating systems resort to disk paging when ram is not sufficient.
No, that's fully loaded in RAM. No paging (VM turned off).
In fact, I've just installed a not-so-monimal install (with ethernet drivers, among others), and it installs under 19Megs disk space. That particular install ran under 12Megs of RAM.
Yea, the one in Win2K
I hereby bequeth my -1 Redundant to this story.
Suppose I have an assembler(card) based on this chip, then I suppose the comp. can run on Win98 and the card on Linux? Are there any interfacing problems? If not It'll be really cool for 2 OSes to coexist.
I post first, I get noticed.
I post first, I get seen
I post first, I get moderated
And my website is where every body's been.
http://iotaspace.net
SecureCRT 3.0 for Windows, while not a text based cli app, allows alt+enter to go full screen.
SB.
You could also just use rsh, and keep everything contained that way... I try to stay away from NFS, but that could work, too...
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
From man make:
-j jobs Specifies the number of jobs (commands) to run simultaneously.
So if two dependencies are missing, say, no water available and not enough grounds, make will spawn a job to go to the well while another job is grinding the beans.
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This may be a little off topic, but I think it would be interesting to see a project vehicle built around an embedded linux system. Of course the boot time would need to be reduced from 30 minutes for this to be remotely feasible.
Linux appears to be a good candidate for controlling hardware, robotics, etc, due to its management of hardware as files. Unfortunately I do not seem to find very many instances of it being used in such a capacity. Perhaps this could be one of the first implementations we'll see.
Some people are very adamant about restoring old pre-computer vehicles, and seem to be put off by the lack of customability incurred by electronic systems. Perhaps somewhat inexpensive fuel-injection systems with PC access to engine settings via linux (or BSD, etc) would make people more inclined to restore using modern technology.
Old tractors, boat engines, and older road-going vehicles could benefit from packages designed for their specific powertrains. Basically such systems could allow "legacy" vehicles to be compliant with modern fuel efficiency and emissions guidelines.
There are several systems available now that accomplish this same task with proprietary systems, however, it would be fascinating to see if Linux's continual improvement and development could be transferred to physical devices. Ex: As developers learn more of the failure points and successes of engines through viewing "event logs" steps could be made to inform engineers to as to what direction their engines should take in future iterations.
If any of you guys know if any work or projects being done similar to this please post some examples. I'm sure someone is or will try it before long if it is not already in the works. I'm curious as to where others see integration going in the future.
G. Waters
"Sigs Cause Cancer"
To play XBill, it must be installed on a specific finger.
Even better - put it on an AVR :)
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I donno man ... in this arena 900kb is HUGE! Linux is a great OS, but I can't ever see myself using it on a product with a controller this small.
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
Okay, make a PCI card with a bunch of 30 pin slots. Get them to run in a cluster. No you have that Seti Accelerator everyone got all bent out of shape about a couple of weeks ago.
When someone yells "Stop" or goes limp, or taps out, the fight is over.
Or maybe you just disallow remote root logins (which I never understood).
If you allow root logins, anyone can attempt to brute-force the password, if you disallow root logins then someone needs to brute-force two passwords, or if it's a local user who is attempting to crack the password you have a log of which user it is if they're required to su.
I've read about these things before, but the website mentioned here doesn't give a price. I might be more inclined to buy one if I knew what it would cost me.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
Sure, re-post old stories .... when there's some new news to report.
No, I don't want to read about something for a third time, simply because some new person is so thrilled by their discovery that they can't be bothered to find out whether it's already been reported
Now thats something those geeks out there should be looking at. Are you going to the Linuxworld ? www.linuxworld.com
Rapid Nirvana
wow, what's that thing run on, floppies?
Ever wished you could take your computer wherever you go? PDAs got you down? Laptops too heavy? Don't look any longer.
Straight from CmdrTaco's underground Linux development megacenter underneath Lake Michigan comes Linux on a Fingernail(tm). With a kernel that fits on three transistors, you can now successfully install Linux on your fingernail. Run Apache, do some hardcore driver development, even play XBill all on your hand!
All I have to say is wow.
Shame on you.... Only 3 cups? I need at least 6 just to get from the bed to the shower.
Not everyone deserves a 320i
>sudo ./make_coffee -strength 10 -cups 3
Segmentation Fault - Core Dumped
Hey! Who shit in my coffee cup!
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
I'm trying to remember if the original Mac had a floppy as large as 1.4MB.
ndfa$ telnet coffee
Trying 10.1.1.25
Connected
uClinux 2.0.38.1pre7
username: root
password:
# make coffee -strength 10 -cups 3
Making coffee now
ahhh.... geeks, turning coffee (caffine) into code for generations!
Non-Deterministic Finite Automata
yeah that is what I assumed, but there is no documentation stating otherwise that I could find.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Yeah, but does it have a GUI interface under 70 meg? Windows 95 and Mac OS have had one for years.
I will unfortunatelly bite on your flamebait.
My Mac OS 9.0.4 runs under 23Megs of RAM, fully loaded.
Please review your numbers, or at least dont associate Mac OS with Windose.
"The whole thing took 30 minutes from initial power-up to first boot."
To what does "the whole thing" refer? The port?
Oh and "woohoo! uClinux is back! now maybe I can run something besides lissajous on my Linux xcopilot!"
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RAM? I'm talking harddrive space.
This whole article is a troll. The ucsim (can't make a micro-sign, sorry) have been out for about half a yer, at least. And from what I remember, there have even been a /.-article covering it. And no, this post is not a troll. It is just a statement of facts. As any troll poster would write...
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
Thanks a LOT!
I appreciate your help. I have been looking for something of this sort for over a year, and no one has been able to provide me any with any info about something of this nature.
I am impressed and I apologize if I upset you. You do not know how frusturating it is to be on a 486 with a 120 meg HD, and know that you can't fit Linux, "The OS for your 486" on it.
Especially when Lynx just doesn't cut it anymore.
Windows 95 is old. Comparing its space usage to that of Mandrake 7.x or SuSe 6.x is just trolling. But since you insist on doing so, I'll have to bite you. I rolled Xfree and 2.2.x onto a 32 meg Seagate as part of a proof-of-concept program a while back. (We were looking to use 40 meg solid-state drives for the finished product) Including half a dozen needed daemons meant I had to chuck Nutscrape, but I got x3270, ncftp, two WM and a trimmed set of X tools in. Just because you are incapable of doing so and the vendors haven't made it easy since 1995 doesn't mean it cannot be done.
.sig: Now legally binding!
With all the effort to cram Linux into the tiniest processors, I'm surprised someone hasn't etched the latest Linux source onto the head of a pin like they did with the Encylopedia Brittanica a few years back. How cool would that be!
Imagine a beowulf cluster of those pins! Sorry I couldn't resist.
Sheesh, are they bouncing that boot code off of Mars just for sh!ts and giggles? And I thought NT booted slow. :)
Ah yes... I installed FreeBSD 4.0 on a box (simple install, nothing special, no GUI, etc), it came out to be around 90 megs. But, it included a C compiler, Perl, and other goodies that MS doesn't come with that take up a fair amount of space.
I don't know how big one's modules directory is upon a fresh install of linux, but you have to take that into consideration (you don't want to have to insert the CD when you install a new piece of hardware so it can copy the module to your HD do you (although all the linux users I know compile their own kernels anyways)). Plus, which distro/version were you using... you would have to compare a linux distro from 1995 with Windows 95. Mac OS 7 fits on 6 diskettes, and one doesn't usually use everything that comes on those diskettes but it wouldn't be fair to compare this, since it was released in 1991 (I believe)
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
The whole thing took 30 minutes from initial power-up to first boot. And they say Win98 takes too long to boot.
Foghorn Leghorn says, "That, I say, that's a joke, son!"
[
A web server (incl. TCP stack) has been put on a PIC (256 bytes, 12 bit).
http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
To fill in some of the gaps in the /. story: ucLinux is a port of the 2.0 linux kernel to MMU-less architectures. It's mainly run on the Motorola 68000 series, but it is also used quite a bit on the (much faster) motorola coldfire chips.
The ucSimm is based on the motorola 68EZ328 Dragonball chip, with onboard memory controller
and LCD controller. It's the same chip used in
most Palm computers.
I haven't used the ucSimm, but I have first-hand uclinux experience with my own hardware. (kiwi.sourceforge.net) It runs pretty nicely, and it definitely doesn't take 30 minutes to boot. Don't know where that came from. Because most of the time-consuming things like loadable modules usually aren't included in the boot process, it only takes seconds to boot. Most of the time is spent decompressing the initial filesystem into DRAM.
ucLinux has been used for many things, including industrial control (microcontroller replacement) and robotics. I have been working, slowly, to make some type of usable PDA based on ucLinux. The Kiwi has been my crude but mostly operational attempt at hardware, and I've been working on a small and efficient GUI system, PicoGUI
(sorry i haven't updated these pages in a while. Most of the fun stuff is taking place in the sourceforge CVS)
-- 2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2
I thought it was "you-see SIMM," much the same way as you might pronounce "UC-Irvine," "UC-Berkeley," etc. And you can use µ to produce the symbol, so no biggie there.
In short, please remove yourself from Slashdot before posting any further "fun jokes." You're ruining my Internet experience.
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MacOS up to 8.1 could fit on a floppy. Full GUI but without the frills.
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Don't lead me into temptation... I can find it myself.
While all the information on Linux moving to small devices is really interesting, I need a ruggedized embedded system / network appliance.
One of my clients is having us write apps on Teclogix and Intermec units which come in various flavors of M$. This is the only part of the app not on a *NIX.
Palm clones and PDA's are cool and all, but the real money is in ruggedized hardware. Hand helds that can be dropped from 6 ft onto a warehouse floor and have built in 802.11 and PCMCIA slots are what we deal with. This things are priced in the $3000-$5000 range. I would think that someone would be doing this with Linux.
I've searched most of the places on the Net and I only seem to come up with PDA style devices.
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
I actually came across similar devices months back when the Matchbox Webserver story was done.
Though, that was an off-shoot from another website and might not have been seen by many people.
Regardless, the applications for devices such as these are clear. And those of you that have been wondering about GUIs and such, I just have to ask: Why would you want one??
The applications at the very most would require only console. Its not like you'll be playing Quake 3 on one of these things. And another person seemed to comment that it takes awhile to boot (30 minutes), that it might be using some slow process like floppy disks. Keep in mind that the install is about 900k, and the device has only flash rom (it says FLASH RAM on the webiste but I believe this to be a mistake), capable of 2MB, for storage. And a total of 8MB DRAM. When was the last time your swap space was that size?
I wouldn't be surprised if the website you view years from now might be hosted on one of these types of devices...
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
It takes 3 seconds to actually boot. It takes 30 minutes to take it out of the box and turn it on.
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
It takes 30 minutes to take it out of the box and get it set up. Once you turn it on, it takes 3 seconds to boot (since it boots entirely from flash).
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
--
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tobam'i: foo for the masses.
The stated 30 min boot time was the time it takes to open the box and plug things in. Once it is all set up it takes only 3 seconds to boot.
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
Can't imagine it having more than a meg of rom. So that would still fit the whole operating system on two disks(with the gui). Probably something like system 6.0.7(before they named it macos) could fit (with the hypothetical rom image) onto a single 1.4meg disk.
Mac 512k for sure didn't have, mac plus i'm not sure of, mac se(and all the models that followed) positively did have a 1.4meg floppy drive.
Put it on a PIC! Put it on a PIC! Put it on a PIC! Put it on a PIC! Put it on a PIC! *sigh*
C is a standard industry abbreviation for microcontroller. The name C-SIMM seems pretty obvious in derivation, and is obviously pronounced either as you-see-simm or (my preference) mew-see-simm.
I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!
Uh oh. Judging by the inaccessability of the servers mentioned, I sure hope their site isn't running of a uClinux simm!
"Oops, I forgot to turn off httpd logging. The memory filled up in 1.8 seconds!"
Then again, a rack enclosure with 50 of these guys and a load balancer could be an interesting prospect. Forget tracking session variables by cookie. Each user could be diverted to their very own simm 'associate' for their custom eCommerce transaction!
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
Yes, and I ran Windows 95 betas under 4 megs of ram on a dx2/66.
That proves nothing though, since such Operating systems resort to disk paging when ram is not sufficient.
Newer versions of 95/98 use FAT32, which is a slightly less horrible filesystem, so you're only losing maybe 100mb from slack space right now. Still, that more than makes up for the size of the OS.
If you want to make the most of your disk, you'd be best switching to an OS with a decent filesystem, like NT (using NTFS) or linux (ext2, reiserfs). They save space and are also much faster. Of course, that isn't possible if you use your system primarily for playing games ...
OK, I can see how it could be mistaken for a 30 minute boot-time. My mistake. Sorry. It is 30 minutes from the uCsimm comes out of its antistatic bag until it boots Clinux, which takes just 3 seconds (as andersen has been really busy pointing out - thanks man).
Black holes are where God divided by zero
If memory serves me right, it's been posted at least twice before.
Is there some sort of Slashdot office pool involving the number of times this one goes up on the site?
Another thing is that the idiot admins at my school have set some flag in the registry that forbids executing any console application. Perhaps the authors of most of the telnet clients are aware of this problem. Ah, brain-dead school techs and their so-called "security". Anyway, it would be a pain if I had to mess around in the registry every time I wanted to telnet out from one of those boxes, so I'm happy that they are GUI apps :).
Yeah yeah. This has been posted before. But it's interesting.
:)
Maybe slashdot should have a bubble-up feature where old stories that get re-posted "come back" from the archives, complete with reviewable comments. That way, all the discussion for a particular "story" (in this case, the uCsimm) can be archived or discussed in one place.
Of course, I'm not gonna write the perl to get it done, so I'm not holding my breath
Check out QNX. The floppy demo comes with a GUI, networking capability, and Web Browsing (although there aren't too many network drivers on the floppy version). Not bad.
Chris the MathFreak
You probably don't know that a Mac can tell you fairly exactly [rounded to human readable MBs] how much RAM the OS is currently using. In my opinion 23Mb is big, but thats OS9 for you. Running appleshare with a shared volume and using quicktime while you check ram usage tend to increase the useage by a meg or two.
This figure also includes how much virtual memory (diskspace) is being used to keep the OS loaded. I'd like to know how to get similar information about win95s running status on RAM usage. The reason that this isn't a disk space usage figure for the installation of the OS is because that will run more towards 90MBs and over.
Of course that makes his point pretty meaningless, as you'd need a combined ram of about 128Mb to have a running OS and a RAM disk which holds it; although the mac OS loads really quickly by comparison off of a ram disk. Try it sometime its fun
-Daniel
7.0/1, was "multitasking" by default and i think that it used to want a minimum of 1.5-2megs. 2.5-3 megs had just about everything loaded. 7.5/8.0 wanted at least 3megs and with a not so minimal install it wanted over 4 megs.. This became a problem since my machine only had 8 megs(LC with 68020). I don't think I ever installed anything past 8.0 on this computer(maybe tried 8.5, not sure).
I think that my sisters computer(one of those early ppc-performas in a box.. imacs predecessor) has 8.5(maybe 8.0, not sure) with over 5meg footprint. One of the biggest consumers of memory is quicktime so if that is not necessary you can easily save several megabytes.. Earlier versions of quicktime are more memory friendly.. I couldn't comment on any later versions of macos since I stopped using them(pc's are cheaper, more upgradeable and run linux better and i don't mind figuring out small problems.)
Sorry to burst your bubble. It takes 30 min to open the box and get it set up. Once set up, it takes only 3 seconds to boot, since it boots entirely out of flash. Another nice thing is that it is fully execute in place, so memory usage is reduced even further.
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
I thought that was a hoax...?
--Threed-Looking out for Numero Uno since 1976!
Combine the uCsimm with the MicroOptical Integrated Eyeglass Display in order to provide what could possibly be the world's smallest functional Borg headset....
Plus the fact that they look like total BCG's (Birth Control Glasses) should only enhance the Geek appeal....
See the MIT Wearables page for more ideas....
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
uClinux isn't, AFAIK, a true real-time OS, so it's applicability for critical embedded systems is somewhat limited. However, a uCsimm could be a cheap, flexible means of giving TCP/IP and Ethernet support to devices that can only handle serial communications. Hell, toss some basic IP masquerading and filtering code in there, and you've got a great, low-cost firewall for all those cable and DSL-wired households who don't know the first thing about security.
It takes only 3 seconds to boot. It takes 30 minutes to unpack the box and plug it in.
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
They are obviously talking about SETUP taking that long. Being firmware, once programmed it probably takes longer to say, "I am a retard, please shoot me." than it does for it to boot up.
I could've sworn macos8 only installed on *040s, so are you sure you crammed it onto an unmodified LC? Of course running and installing are two completely different chores....
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
I dont mean to be a bearer of bad news, but this story (or something similar) was posted earlier in the year.....
anyhoo, there seems to be few updates to their site, so I am openly wondering what the status of development is. I've been poking around in their FTP site on and off over the last 6 months, and I have yet to come across the latest UCLinux tarfile.....
Another project which is really cool and is updated more often is the Linux on Coldfire. This site seems to be better geared towards developers, as multiple coldfire cores are supported....
Alright, I'll stop rambling now. Time for my medication.....
Feed The Need[goatse.cx]
Windoze in under 70 megs? where is this lightweight version? As the owner of a rather small HD [6 gig] I'd love to find M$'s space conserving OS;)
-={(Astynax)}=-
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
... a beowulf cluster of these?
create | destroy | enjoy
You probably shouldn't fuck them, then.
Reality is the ultimate Rorschach.
horny$ ssh pamela
./love
connected to pamela..69.69.69.69
(ssh) password :
pamela$ make love
Making love
pamela$
segmentation fault..Core dumped.
Moral : always use ssh for safe sex
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
http://jailbait.sourceforge.net/
Fits in 16 MB, includes Netscape, telnet, ssh, and other such neccessities
The long boot time isn't bad. I assume on an embedded device you'd just store an already booted image on a ROM for instant on. The real problem is the huge 900k footprint. Many embedded devices run with just a fraction of that amount of RAM. I'm also not sure I'd trust Linux for an embedded system. Despite its legendary stability, something simpler and easier to verify would be preferable.
If you are modding me down because you disagree with me, use the "Flamebait" category, not the "Troll" one.