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HP Print Server Uses Linux, But Doesn't Support It?
Spyky writes: "A fairly new product from HP, the Jet Direct 4000 Printing Appliance includes a 266 MHz PC processor, a 5.2 GB HD, 64 MB of RAM and runs the Linux operating system. However, it fails to recognize Linux, or any non-Microsoft operating system as a valid client. In essence HP recognizes Linux as an operating system powerful and stable enough to trust their Printing Server Appliance to, yet are unwilling to commit to supporting that very same operating system as a client."
I'm not sure what you do at VA/Andover, Rob, but if you're just hacking Slashcode, maybe you should treat your employment at VA/Andover as an opportunity to learn a bit about the IT real world, about heterogeneous networks built out of systems running things other than Linux and *BSD.
HP's network printers all support LPD. If you have even one mediocre PCL5-to-Postscript filter for Ghostscript, you can print to it. If your printer supports Postscript, you don't even need that little bit of configuration.
A JetDirect server is a little box or card that converts a non-network printer into a network printer, typically by receiving jobs via ethernet and handing them to the device's parallel interface. I've never seen a JetDirect server that didn't support LPD. As far as I know, they all do. HP is a large Unix vendor, after all. Most Windows printing to HP network printers prior to this native SMB support is actually done via LPD. Client machines send jobs via SMB to a print server (typically an NT box), and the print server transmits it as an LPD job to the printer. The newer JetDirect cards remove the need to run a "software" print server by putting the SMB support into (or next to) the printer.
Later JetDirect models have added built-in support for Netware, Ethertalk and most recently, direct SMB support. If for some reason (security, strict job management, or some weird neurosis) you want to print fron Linux machines using something other than LPD, you're certainly welcome to do so. Netatalk and CAP both support Ethertalk printing, Mars-NWE (if I recall) supports Netware printing, and Samba supports SMB printing just fine, and they've all done so for years.
Unless HP has suddenly abandoned all four of these protocols (and no, they haven't) in favor of a strage new networked variation of PPA (the "Winprinter" protocol on some of their cheap inkjets), you can print from Linux very easily indeed on any and all JetDirect-connected printers. Not to mention the myriad LPD-capable Xerox, Canon, Textronix and IBM printers chugging away out there. Granted, if you have a $50,000 printer with multiple output trays, six paper drawers, multipoint stapling, a laminator and an envelope-stuffing attachment, you're not going to have a Linux driver on hand that can use all of those features. But you'll be able to print just fine.
One a Linux box is set up and configured properly, it can go forever. Thus it makes great sense as a preconfigured print server. On the other hand, getting a Linux box set up as a client, can be absolute hell! There are three bazillion tweaks and incompatibilites that your flavor of Linux client can have. The printer drivers are generally bare bones support, and designed by people outside of the printer company. Thus the return for offering support versus the effort needed to maintain that support on linux is a very poor proposition. Until Linux becomes a relatively large and homogenous target market, it doesn't make economic sense to support it as a client.
LetterRip
Tom M.
TomM@pentstar.com
In case you hadn't noticed, Windows, by default, in no way supports the LPD protocol, no standard printer drivers that I've ever seen support that kind of functionality, and HP themselves usually distributes third party NT-based server software with their network printers to allow SMB clients to connect to that server which acts as sort of proxy to the network printer itself. All this product does is replace that server software with a box you can easily mount in a rack, give a couple of IP addresses to, and just go instead of having to mess around with complicated software installations and risk crashing that unstable NT box you've decided to use as the SMB (not LPD -- note the difference) print server.
If anything, HP deserves credit (yay HP!) for what they've done with this product, not derided. (And their marketing department looks to be pretty on the ball here, so don't give them crap either.) They're using Linux to provide functionality easily which would otherwise be very difficult if the customer relied strictly on Windows. Your Unix box can still print just fine with this product around because it CAN use the LPD protocol. Your cubicle-mate, however, can't because, if anything, his stupid Windows box probably thinks LPD is a psychoactive drug or something and so, with the HP Jet Direct 4000 Printing Appliance, he now gets the same functionality out of the network printer that you do, and the boss doesn't have to spend $3k on yet another server that has to be configured with a whole OS and all that goes along with that. Or, alternatively, he doesn't have to dance with Samba on a Unix server he may already have set up, taking away resources from the already heavy Oracle database running on it. Or, alternatively to that, he doesn't have to rely on the Jet Admin software being installed on an NT workstation that might possibly crash often or get misconfigured or be prone to any of an infinity of pilot errors. Sounds like a good deal to me.
No, this isn't ironic, CmdrTaco. Y'all just don't do your research and are quick to jump a reactionary gun at anything that doesn't just gush about Linux and is designed to support Windows exclusively. In this case, it's only Windows that needs this support because your Linux box can already do what Windows can't.
Geez.
jer
Indeed. I got a perfect example of this when HP technical support refused to tell me how to get the BIOS to recognise the suspend partition on my HP laptop. [...] The tech support guy quite happily told me that he ran Red Hat at home, but wasn't allowed to tell me anything because I wasn't running Windows...
Weird. Back in 1995, when I first had an opportunity to try Linux, I wanted to install on a 66 MHz 80486 HP Vectra XM, a pretty nice machine with built-in video and networking. Unfortunately, the manual didn't tell you what kind of video chipset the system had. So I called HP, used my HP-UX system ID, and was put through to an engineer who looked the information up in a book for me.
That's probably the key, though -- the HP-UX support people are almost certainly not the same as the people who do support for their PCs and laptops. And, now that I think about it, I may have had to dance around the questions from the receptionist, as well.
The box may or may not still accept UNIX line printer connections. If I were putting together the product, I would disable that because it raises all sorts of additional security issues.
You can almost certainly print to the box using SMB from a UNIX client. But, of course, if it doesn't work, you have to figure out yourself why.
Reminds me of some of the non-PS Apple printers for Macs. They relied on Quickdraw in the OS to do the actual rendering and then sent the bitmap data out to the printer.
I imagine that HP is using Windows GDI to accomplish the same thing. That way the printer is nothing more than a mechanism for moving paper in front of a print head, it doesn't require a whole lot (any?) programmable logic or the cost involved in developing it.
The gripe I have is that in this day and age, I can't imagine that the cost involved in adding a slot for a $100 smart networking+formatter board that would allow dumb printers to become smarter printers. HP does it for the networking side, and it'd be great to see it for the formatting side of the equation, too.
With enough integration and planning they could make a single formatter board work across their entire range of printers. Making it optional would enable them to keep shilling $109 printers to the masses at CompUSA without raking anyone who wants a little brains over the coals.
Listen, you poor little fella. There's a big-ass thing you missed. If the printer in question is connected to a Windows NT system, and the printer is not using the default Windows NT printer driver, or if that printer driver wasn't included in NT and had to be added, it won't work! It'll only work if you install the printer as a local printer using the Win2k driver, then use net use to make LPT1 the other one. It's a big fat mess.
And you're gonna tell me it's harder to set up a network printer in Linux?
Quit moderating up Fascdot Killed My PR. He is a troll.
HP has horrible driver support for NT and Windows 2000 in their printers and scanners. It's like they think that everyone runs Windows 9x, even businesses. Many of their products don't have NT drivers, and those that do don't have anywhere near the features of their corresponding Win 98 drivers...
If the cost of support is greater than the revenue, then they woulds be losing money. Companies exist to maximize profit, so they're not going to offer services or products that will lose money.
Eric ze Kidder
Use Linux -> You have substantial control over the box, and can make it do what you want. No licensing costs. Good.
Support Linux Clients -> Users have substantial control over their boxes, and can have arbitrary local patches, changes, or different (and possibly incompatible versions). Impossible to *support*.
I don't particularly blame them. I've done Unix support, and even if you have people nailed down to a specific version of a specific distribution, it's a serious pain.
Flexibility is hard to support.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
"Supported" has different meanings to different people. Saying that Linux is not supported as a client is a long, long way from saying that it won't work. They may just not have their support staff trained on Linux printing issues. It's as valid a reason as any.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Why would they make more money if that had linux. You are aware that it cost money to develop sofware. Anyway thy probably didnt choose linux becuase it was so great, but rather becuase they dont have to pay an expensive licensing fees for it. Hence they dont have to pay money for every print server they sell.
Anyway it is well known that linux is a better in in a server role, as opposed to a desktop, despite heroic efforts, (dont worry its getting there).
Q) .What has the open source movement gained?
:-).
ans: nuffin.
Bzzzzt : WRONG ANSWER - thanks for playing.
I don't want to talk too much about this as I'm
sure HP have lots of marketing they want to do
around this.
But the deal is that *yes* this box uses Samba.
*YES* - HP have donated a *lot* of time, effort,
*CODE* (note that - it's important !) and money
in helping Samba support the new WinNT print
subsystem.
They have also helped us push the development on
authentigration and user enumeration between Samba
and WinNT, (check out the winbind project being
done on the Samba lists).
All of these goodies will appear in Samba 2.2.x,
due... well.... when it's *ready* (soon I hope) !
HP are *massively* contributing to Samba, and
the Open Source efforts. Just as much as other
vendors (SGI, Veritas) and other official Samba
supporters do !
Don't knock them just because their marketing
people sometimes are a bit clueless, and only
mention Windows in a product sheet.
They don't mention Samba either (I'm going to
be having a word with them about that....
Regards,
Jeremy Allison,
Samba Team.
Personally, I see this as the right way of doing things. Linux is good as a server, and I like to play around with it on my machine (I program for class on it). But from my own tests, I would never install it on my family's machine.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Hooptie
"Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
It seems that HP is far from alone in seeing Linux as a valid, cheap, better-performing alternative to Microsoft OS's on the server-side, but (like much of the industry) doesn't think Linux has any business as a client/workstation OS. I think that's a mistaken view, but it's a common one. Of course, what they're failing to see, is that even a server may (depending on purpose) need to print from time to time.
-- "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin
I have set up countless linux boxes in the last 5 years, and have yet to get a box to print to a network print server.
Granted, it hasn't been something I've spent a lot of time on, but I have an office full of Windows machines printing to a Windows print server (running HP jetdirect, as a matter of fact), but none of the linux boxes print to the thing.
The ability to add network printers quickly and easily is still lacking in both gnome and KDE... Perhaps this is why HP isn't eager to support linux?
linux lusers would whine and cry about it not being Open Source
Presumably, if it's using Linux, it is open source?
But more seriously, I've never known a linux user to skimp from buying hardware. Software maybe (why buy it when you can write your own version?), but hardware is not something you can download the source code for to get it for free.
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
> This is a business appliance.
And this is a business. And we have windows PCs, Linux boxes and AS/400s which all need to be able to use the printers.
What's this "hax0r consumer" you are talking about got to do with it? If you think linux is confined to colleges you need to progress beyond 1995.
Also, I would add that while the non-ms machines here are well under 20%, the amount of printing done from them is probably more than 20% of the total.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
Ok, so would their sales. The *nix market for these things is, admittedly, much smaller than the Windows market (for now).
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Sure it is.
It has the key features for a story:
What else did you want ? This article has almost all the requirements for an approved story. The only missing item would be to mention somewhere the word "geek".
-
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
Indeed. I got a perfect example of this when HP technical support refused to tell me how to get the BIOS to recognise the suspend partition on my HP laptop. I said "Does it have to be in a specific location? Does it have to have a particular partition type? Does it have to be formatted in any particular way?". They said "Use the utility we provide under Windows". I pointed out that I didn't run Windows, and thus couldn't run the utility (which I didn't have anyway). They refused to give me the information I needed. I didn't want help on how to do anything, I just needed the info so I could do it myself. But apparently any non-MS usage isn't allowed, and they wouldn't tell me anything. The tech support guy quite happily told me that he ran Red Hat at home, but wasn't allowed to tell me anything because I wasn't running Windows...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I have no problem with there being no support for Linux by hardware manufacturers. Tech Support is a huge expense, and training personel how to deal with one OS family is hard enough.
What I do have a problem with is the failure to be open with technical information. The presentation of such information could be done via web page (as is done with many drive manufacturers,) explicitly without warranty of accuracy, etc, thus minimizing the cost while maintaining a larger population of possible consumers for their product.
Regarding the print server, I don't see why they don't (assuming they don't) let it be both a standard JetDirect (i.e. lpd) server as will as a SMB share.
--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
Put aside the conspiracy theory for a minute and look at it. The purpose of this cheap little device is to remove print spooling from your overworked NT and put it off to the side where you don't have to worry about it. (by cheap I mean it's $1300 compared to the $20000 NT box your using now) And even better is that it's doing this with our favorite OS.
Basically it's a replacement part. And however your unix is connected to your current NT print server will most likely transfer over to it.
Furthur more, it is running lpd, it is Linux based, and you can probly telnet to it. Thus you should have no problem setting it up as your unix print server as well. For all we know there is probly a readme on the device which explains how to do just that.
sorry to nit pick, but won't it be
H++;P++
??
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
It apparently takes jobs from SMB clients and prints them to the printer using LPR (which basically every networked laser printer supports these days, including all the HPs, Tektronix, and so on, as well as the older HP Jetdirect cards and servers.).........HP is really missing the boat on this one, anyway. You should be able to print to it via lpr.......
Or alternatively, you could print to the printer directly using lpr couldn't you? Seems like making the traffic walk the wire once to the server, and again to the printer is a huge waste of bandwidth.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Well, since it's running a fullfledged os, why not include a really stripped down ftp client (there is one of these configured in /etc/services, i forget the name. tftp?) that can send a driver to the computer? Write it in java for that run-anywhere experience.
Of course, you'd better hope the OS has the equivalent of nobody users, but I digress.
... or is this what PnP is supposed to do -- include the software driver in the hardware? I seem to recall something about a forth-based configuration language.
It supports all of the things you mention. When it says "supported clients" they mean you can call and say my win2k box doesn't work and they will help you fix it. You can't say "my Linux 2.1.2342 kernel won't recognize it" because they don't want to retrain their phone support. There is no "If OS = Linux then Do Not Print" conspiracy. Of course noone actually reads the links they are too busy whining that they can't have a $1300 print appliance in their living room.
Since when can you not use linux as a print client?
This thing supports LPR and SMB, no? Linux can do both.
Just to reply to a troll....
Granted, it wasn't a bunch of Linux boxen, but at one of the places I've worked at, we had 500+ Sun boxen running various versions of SunOS, 200+ combined HP and IBM workstations, 150 or so Macs, mainly in the marketing, plus about 100 (or thereabouts) Windows boxen.
This was a few years ago, and since then, they've been bought out by Cadence, so I don't know what's going on there now.
--
apparently its HP's policy NOT to release their MIB (the document that translates numbers to names). I find this pretty pathetic; as the norm these days (and for years, too) is to release your MIB so that other netmgt stations can compile it and manage your box intelligently.
what makes HP think that their vision is so special that they can't release their variable names?
sheesh.
so this latest move of theirs is not at all surprising to me. hp is NOT an "open" company; I never saw them that way; and they're not helping matters with this latest stunt.
--
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
You're calling either Win2k or NT a full-fledged OS? I'm sorry, chum, but you're just plain wrong!
Seriously, we tried practically everything and worked the issue for hours. It reminded me of the Office 97 file compatibility issue.
It's pretty clear. They took the cheapest hardware they could find, put Linux on it and are selling it. It would cost EFFORT to make it not work with Linux as a client OS, as that's standard. My bet is they just use lpd (Confirmed!), and it would cost effort to prevent it from working.... Hmm. Disproved here.
Roger.
the point of this thing is plug'n'play; if you want full flex, I agree with the original poster, get yourself a 486 and put Slack on it, shut down all but ssh and lpd, and away you go. The real issue here is whether people time or hardware has more priority in your budget.
--
Another sneaky bastard running Linux
It's even creepier when you realize that the company was founded by two gents named Iewlett and Qackard.
That's exactly right. If you're going to an LPD capable printer, you can just set up a queue to the printer directly. You then don't need the HP 4000 print server at all!
I do wish people would apply a little more brainpower before getting their undies in a bunch over a triviality.
Of course, if you're setting up a new network, you'd be better to start thinking about the Common Unix Printing Ssytem or maybe LPR Next Generation instead of dealing much with LPD.
Repeat after me,
"This product is designed to replace print servers"
A-1: A profit-seeking private corporation.
Q-2: Why would they use Linux?
A-2: Cheap, realiable, customizeable OS available for a variety of hardware.
Q-3: Why do most /.'ers run Linux?
A-3: See answer #2.
Q-4: What has HP taken away from open source?
A-4: A free license to use Linux.
Q-5: What do most /.'ers take away from open source?
A-5: See answer #4.
Q-6: What has HP given back to the open source community?
A-6: Some code, another high-profile Linux-based product, and more validity in the market.
Q-7: What does the average /.'er give back to the open source community?
A-7: Some code, perhaps a few low- to medium-profile Linux-based products, and evangalism in the market.
Nor do I. If you re-read my original post, you'll see that I specifically did not want support. I only wanted techincal information about the hardware/firmware, so that I could make my own mistakes with that information. I didn't want HP to fix any problems I had. I only wanted the information to enable me to fix them myself.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
It's an SMB print server--apparently built out of Samba, no less. That means if you have Samba (or a commercial SMB implementation, for that matter) installed on your Unix, Linux or BSD systems, you can print to this just fine. Will HP engineers field your support calls? Nope. But will you be able to print? Absolutely.
And Samba's been bundled with civilized admin tools on every mainstream (read: bigger than 2 floppies) Linux distro of the past 4 years. It works like a champ on nearly every other Unix-like OS out there, too.
This particular model JetDirect is a bit different from most past ones. This one is for printers that are already network-enabled, and communicates with them by LPD. It's simply a way to add SMB print queues without running a disk-based print server.
On-board native SMB print queueing is still a fairly new and exotic feature on printers. LPD, Netware and Appletalk support aren't. Any printer you connect to this, by the way, already can be printed to directly from Unix via LPD (at the very least). But if you want to manage a single print queue for, say, logging and accounting purposes, all you need to do to bring Unix clients under this is to add four simple lines to your Samba config for each printer this is managing.
On another note: I've never seen an HP network printer that didn't support LPD natively. It's the baseline protocol for network printers.
You mean for calling you an idiot?
I'm only an engineer, and can't speak for why upper management doesn't offer a Vectra bundled with Linux; we do support Linux on Vectra, through Linuxcare, but we do not ourselves sell desktop PCs with Linux. A thought on this is that Linux is not a desktop solution, yet, but works well for servers, workstations etc.
The whole point of my logic was that HP *should care* because we are using the products internally on Linux, and needs to support *itself*, and if it can't support itself, it won't progress. So if we're selling PCs with Linux support, even if we don't ourselves install or support Linux, and we're using our PCs with Linux, it stands to reason that other people are as well, and if only out of self interest by support our own needs, we'll also be meeting the needs and interests of others as well.
We don't use Epson printers because HP printers are better ^^
The nick is a joke! Really!
GPL Deconstructed
First off, my comments were mainly directed at his outrage at not being able to use lpr from a linux box to talk to the print server. And at least for that application, I think it would be more efficient to go directly to the printer via lpr.
But I do understand the utility of a single queue. But at the same time, I understand the target market for this appliance from HP, and heterogeneous networks probably aren't high on the list. It's designed as a small appliance for Windows shops. I would hazard a guess, that most linux shops would have the internal expertise, that if they wanted to have something like this that supports linux as well as other OS's, they would have built it ages ago on their own. Probably using similar hardware that had been recycled from a user upgrade in the past.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Before you try to hang HP for this, think about why they might do this. The Linux in the hardware is a known quantity. They can support it without problems, it doesn't change, etc. Windows is also a known quantity. Windows NT Service Pack 6a is a certain set of libraries and executables. There may be other software issues, but the majority of stuff is standard. However, Linux is NOT a known quantity. It's would be hell for a general purpose support staff to support. Which distro, which kernel, which patches, which glibc, which utilities? The fact that the kernel upgrade notes list a dozen and a half required versions of certain software is indicitive of this. For Windows, a support person (or a piece of software like Internet Explorer) can say, okay, make sure you have Service Pack 6a installed to use this. In the Linux arena, they either have to support a specific distribution (the stock version of RedHat 6.1) or else deal with a support nightmare of trying to make sure everybody is on the same page. It makes a lot of sense for HP to not support Linux as a client under these circumstances.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
ans: A stable cheap operating system
HP has their own unix OS - you don't get much cheaper than that
What have they saved?
ans: Shitloads of development money
2) It's ALREADY DONE. They already pay developers
What has the open source movement gained?
ans: nuffin.
First - why do they owe you anything? Using "your" product helps prove that it's a real product.
Is this a model for future company involvement in Linux/Open source software?
Answer is an exercise for the student
No, answer is for the company involved, in this case HP, who has just also announced the formation (with other companies) of an Open Source lab. They have also recently committed to making linux binaries work on hpux and supporting linux as an OS on hp big iron.
You've chosen the wrong target for your teen angst on this one.
It's not that they won't allow you to run Linux, it's that they don't support it. I would guess that your warranty/support agreement states something to that effect -- if it doesn't, then that's the issue I would bring directly to them.
Obviously, most of the big hardware suppliers are having a hard time adjusting to the openness of Linux -- they've been dealing directly and exclusively with Microsoft for so long, the though that they would even be allowed to distribute the specs to their speciialized tools is probably still fairly foreign to them.
--- begin karma whoring ---
I suppose that it's also possible that Microsoft could have a "non-support" clause buried somewhere in its contracts with big PC manufacturers, barring them from providing support for other operating systems.
--- end karma whoring ---
Anyone else just realize that:
HP++ = IQ
in the same sense that
IBM-- = HAL.
or
VMS++ = WNT (Windows NT)
I'm surprised that I haven't seen this pointed out before.
--Lenny
...of something I've been telling y'all for a while.
Free operating systems shift the balance of power towards hardware vendors. The "revolution" is plainly not of any benefit or concern to these companies. The ultimate destiny will be thousands of pieces of hardware running thousands of different Linuxes. Company X will only support *their* linux. This could be a prelude to HP getting into workstation sales. Then in order to get support, you either have to buy an HP workstation and run their Linux on it, or run Windows.
Hmmm... I wonder what an announcement from HP stating that they were getting into the Linux workstation business would do to their stock price.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
OK it's disappointing but I wouldn't say it's unusual. There's a lot of situations where Linux is used serverside but it's not supported on the client side. Hopefully with enough demand they'll realise that not supporting Linux based clients was the wrong thing to do. (please note: don't flame them give them valid reasons for them to support Linux. M$ $ux, Linux rules is not going to do any good, neither is Support Linux or I'll pour a bowl of hot grits down your pants.)
While we recognize that an IQ is generally a good thing to have, as of this time we don't support it within out management staff.
Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
Let me start of by saying that I think HP should support any kind of client--we all need to print, why are they leaving 20% of us out in the cold?
However, just because they use Linux within the appliance means nothing. Blenders have a whirling blade inside of them--but does GE support tossing your blender into a whirling blade? I doubt it.
The point is that the technology a company uses to create a product and the need that the product fulfills are totally orthogonal issues.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Well, BIOS is just a piece of software, so if you have a jumperless MOBO, you overclock that in software.
;-)
G
I don't know what you're talking about.
Getting a Win2K computer to print is amazingly easy. Almost as easy as using the chooser on a macintosh.
Start-> Settings-> Printers-> Add Printer
and viola! you're in a Winbloze wizard that will find any damn printer on your network.
now how is that harder than trying to accomplish the same thing on a linux box?
I would say that the average /.er probably controbutes a lot of hot air, perhaps a bug report or two and maybe a low profile toy project. Only a very small % of Linux users controbute code, and /. isn't Linux exclusive.
Thad
Thad
When a company gets as big as HP, there sometimes isn't just one corporate culture, but many.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Or perhaps not FUD, just stupidity.
HP networked laser printers routinely support anything that'll speak to lpd. My HP LaserJet 2100 TN certainly supports Linux (and every other *nix, and Mac, and Windows), and it looks like the 4000 does too.
(Okay, sure, it doesn't have a fancy graphic interface to control exotic printer options like it does for the Mac or Windows -- but show me where the API for such an interface is defined in Linux or any other 'nix. I know, it's in progress.)
Get a grip.
-- Alastair
The biggest problem companies are facing in supporting linux is that it's just to much for their support crew to handle. Imagine a phone tech support guy trying to explain to a linux newbie how to edit their startup files. He'd have to know that Redhat uses a much different /etc/rc.d than Debian does. And that there are also some differences in Slackware's setup, and that Corel is also very different. Already I can hear the cries starting...LSB!! LSB!! But where is the LSB? I haven't heard a word from them in months. We've got to get Linux Standardized on it's libraries and file locations. The only other possible outcome I can see is fragmentation and/or the winning out of one distribution such as Redhat (not that the others would dissapear, only that they would be forced to comply with the winning company's standards in order to remain compatible with apps. I really can't blame HP here. I'm guessing they've just got to many dumb MCSE tech support guys that can't support the numerous other OSs that are out there. Hello...LSB anybody home????
How come out of all the Vectras (The reliable, manageable corporate pc (tm))on your page, not ONE is offered with Linux? If you don't even sell it to the desktop, why would you support it on the desktop? Your logic is flawed. If you are likely to use it internally, then you are unlikely to use the same products that you are selling your customers. Why don't you guys just sell epson printers while you're at it?
As a sort of joke, I send HP tech support and email: "Please send me the linux drivers for the HP2100." Here's the response:
d oc/lpg40837.html. CD Burners ship with win9x, NT drivers. You pay us $25+shipping for the win2k drivers.
Hewlett-Packard does not write Linux drivers for the HP LaserJet 2100. Your Linux provider is responsible for providing these drivers. The HP LaserJet 2100 is backward compatible with most older HP LaserJet drivers. You should be able to run the HP LaserJet 2100 using another Hewlett-Packard LaserJet driver provided by Linux.
Also, check out HP's "policy" on win2k drivers: http://w ww.hp.com/cposupport/information_storage/support_
I can't believe that this was enough to warrant a story submission.
What do you mean, "Fails to recognize"? Give us some background here. It apparently takes jobs from SMB clients and prints them to the printer using LPR (which basically every networked laser printer supports these days, including all the HPs, Tektronix, and so on, as well as the older HP Jetdirect cards and servers.)
By 'fails to recognize' do you mean that HP WebJet Admin can't do a printer discovery on your network and discover LPR queues on your machines magically? Or do you mean that when you use smbclient to try to print something to the HP Print Server, it won't take your request? Or do you mean that you can't print to it via LPR, which isn't part of its design function in the first place?
HP is really missing the boat on this one, anyway. You should be able to print to it via lpr, appletalk, novell, or smb; It should support TCP/IP, IPX, and Appletalk DDP. All of this is provided with standard linux distributions now, and none of it is difficult to locate. As usual, HP misses the boat.
Even my favorite product that they make, the HP Procurve 4000M switches, is fairly lame in some respects; In order to increase the number of VLANs on the box, you must restart the switch. I bet Cisco's laughing about that one all day every day.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Go read the GPL again. Did they change the kernel? Did they change Samba? (yes, but all of the code went back to the Samba guys)
Did they change lpr? Oh wait, that's BSD, they're not required to.
Did they write new software that *runs* under Linux? Probably, but the GPL doesn't require that all Linux software have to be GPL as well.
Do you really think Oracle would have ported to Linux if they had to GPL it? Not on your life.
What have HP gained?
ans: A stable cheap operating system
What have they saved?
ans: Shitloads of development money
What has the open source movement gained?
ans: nuffin.
Is this a model for future company involvement in Linux/Open source software?
Answer is an exercise for the student
When I were your age, all round here were fields...