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Plastic Electronics Driving An LCD Monitor
denisbergeron writes: "Philips Research develops the world's first display using polymeric semiconductors as pixel drivers, you can see the scientific paper here and a large public version here nothing realy new, but two beautifull picture of a 3.5 cm polymer display with a lot of other related pictures. No ready for the prime time, but almost there." "Polymeric" is just a fancy way to say "plastic" -- and the good news is that compared to silicon, "fewer production
stages and less stringent clean room conditions are required," thus making for cheaper display technology. Good news to me, and bad news to anyone who just plunked down $15,000-plus-tax for a big wall-mounted plasma TV.
sounds more like a polarisation filter kind of process.....fun stuff a-comin.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
Plasma screens lose potency over time, especially the color models. They will need to be replaced as well.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"plastic" isn't a synonym for "polymer". Some polymers are tar-like, starch is a polymer as is hydrofluoric acid, wood is a mix of several polymers.
And "plastic" is made from a wide range of monomers. The poly-ethylene in milk bottles isn't the same stuff as the poly-styrene in packing peanuts, nor the nylon in brush bristles. Just because something is a polymer doesn't mean you can easily make it from your plastic trash. I believe that many of the current crop of polymer semiconductors are polyenes such as polyacetylene, polyvinylidene fluoride, polythiophenes (sulfur containing rings linked together), poly-para-phenylen-vinylene, or poly-anilines. None of these are very close to most packaging plastics.
You know, I just now noticed that at least the third image there is out of focus. I think if I were going to offer high-resolution images, I'd make damn sure the photographer know what the hell he was doing.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Last weekend I was in the biggest electronics "boutique" in town, erm, the country.
Side by side were 52" CRT for ~$6000 and a 52" plasma for $18000 (my conversion may be screwy, but the ratio was 1:3). Both running off (separate) DVDs.
The CRT looked superb, the plasma looked crap, from any distance.
So you're right, the "value" is certainly not real. (unless you're too short of space for the CRT, in which case buy a saller telly, fool!)
FatPhil
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Picture this:
.jpg to the lower portion of your LEP suit.
You're at a bar - laying down some HEAVY pickup moves on a fabulous looking blonde when, all of the sudden, she screams, smacks you in the face and walks away.
Confused, you look down to discover that you're PANTS ARE GONE!!! AHHH!!!!!!! You quickly reach for your Microsoft WinGear(tm) LEP control panel (embedded in your wirstwatch) and promptly load the appropriate Armani dress slacks
Damn packet kiddies....
You jack into your car. Now to find out who DOSed your pants. Damn these IPv6 addys are hard to trace... AHA! Gotcha!
c:\load -fullsuit officer.gear
Done.
c:\load -carskin viper-cop.paint
Done.
Time for some fun....
They do, however, make great baby names.
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Liberty uber alles.
Now pretty soon we won't have to worry about those Killer (Golden) Orbs anymore!
(If you don't know what I'm talking about, go find the article about Socket A coolers that Don't Kill.)
(You know how you come up with a good quip hours after a fight? It's kinda like me, I come up with a good post HOURS after moderators are looking anymore... Sigh.)
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That's why the different plastics (on containers, etc) have the type listed (by number and short description: PETE HDPE, etc). They get sorted, and all is well again.
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"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
It wasn't all that sly - the couple was getting busy on the bed under fireworks on the TV... ;-)
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"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
XNormal makes a good point here about the fact that low-draw processors are less impressive than you might think in laptops because the backlight is the real hog.
... "E" ... "D."
...
Three words: "L"
OK, those aren't words, they're only letters. But they stand for words.
Now that white LEDs are widely available, I hope that some near generation of laptops will become truly powersaving by substituting LEDs for flourescent backlighting. Also, I don't know what the mimimum depth is for the tubes used in laptops, but I wonder if LEDS could also end up in space / weight savings.
idle thoughts of an idle fellow
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
thus making for cheaper display technology. Good news to me, and bad news to anyone who just plunked down $15,000-plus-tax for a big wall-mounted plasma TV
Any idea how much the equivalent is going to cost? I almost bought one of these but then i happened to notice i did have $15,000
Using LEP (Light-Emitting-Polymers rather than polymeric circuits for LCD), Espon has been able to mass-produce material by adapting its inkjet technology.
While the technology is impressive, I couldn't help but notice the display was a single color. I'm sure we're all going to rush out to get flat panel B&W(er, black and yellow) TV sets...
[Yes this is slightly OT. But it's still science.]
"Polymeric" is just a fancy way to say "plastic"
Actually, polymeric does not mean plastic.
Plastic, strictly, means that you can shape the material by squeezeing it into shape. (As opposed to elastic, like a rubber band, that will go back to it's original shape when you stop squeezing it).
Polymeric means built up from lots of reapeating units. What are commonly called plastics (Polyethylene for example) are polymeric. But so are proteins. And lots of other things, that are't plastics.
To get marginally back on topic, just because this is made using a polymer does _not_ mean that it will be flexable. Perspex (Polymethylmethacrylate), the ploymer used in windows, is not flexable. Given that semiconductors require a crystaline structure, I don't think that these polymers will be plastic.
You can get flexable polymers that can do this sort of thing, but they are not semiconductors, they are called elecroluminescent polymers.
Different thing entierly
I think you are missing something.
Having worked at our University paper and our town paper I know it can be difficult to get high-res photos off the web. It is a good thing to offer 300 dpi photos for download without having to request them. I think it is fair to tell them that you are a newspaper and you are using them so they can track their coverage on this. What would you do with a 300 dpi image anyways? It is big enough to be your background at 1200 pixels, but who would put those up as a background?
News for UW students
Um, sorry try again. Most polymers are not bendable.
Most polymers you will meet are, but that's not the same thing.
This stuff works by semiconducting polymers - that means they need to be crystaline polymers - a small subgroup - that are not 'bendy'.
You can get bendy screens, byt using polymers, but that's an entirely different group of polymers.
Do you say the same about people who can afford to buy expensive automobiles, yachts, or million dollar homes?
This is indeed a good idea, and in my native country it happens all the time. Unfortunately, it is severely hindered by the fact that there are essentially two types of plastic. One is the hard breakable kind (like a monitor-case) and the other is the soft bendable kind (like plastic-bags). To most people it's just plastic, and it gets thrown in one big pile. The bad news is that by mixing the two kinds you basically get bendable breakable plastics - bends as easily as a plastic bag, but breaks the minute it bends.
The solution would be to have it sorted, but since this is almost impossible to do automatically, it would require that you sort the plastics yourself. Since this requires a little thinking and effort, Joe Random Sixpack is certainly not going to bother with it.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
Actually, I CAN see burn-in on some color monitors that do nothing but sit at the same screen most of the time (computer-based learning terminals at Wal-Mart come to mind)... It's still physically possible on some monitors - but it's gotta sit there turned on for a damn long time, wasting electricity... I guess you're damn stupid if you don't have your monitor turn off when you're not using it though, unless it is displaying some sort of pretty screen saver...
This is a light emitting polymer that requires very little power to operate... Which is why it's considered as such a breakthrough for portable displays... It runs cooler than LED's (which are made of plastic too, and can run virtually forever, hence why they're incorporated even into streetlights), and therefore can have an indefinate lifespan... Now as to whether LEP's can maintain extended operations or not, and not suffer degradation or decomposition of their respective dyes, that's another question entirely...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
The sony hi-scan 1080i projection TVs, which are only 20 inches deep, run for 2500 at circuit city and the picture is as good as, if not better then, any plasma I've ever seen. Using component video the picture is better then the 36" Wega I owned (and which this replaced).
This article in zdnet Australia has some of the details, and describes the fact the the displays are made with a "specialty printer that can shoot red, blue and green polymer inks ... from three separate cartridges, then mix with a fourth cartridge that contains a conductive polymer. The printer "prints" small drops of the four inks onto a thin screen, which combined with electrodes will make an LEP display.", says that these displays will have about 200dpi and states that "Best of all, Seiko-Epson is working on a mammoth printer that will create screens 15 feet across with no seams and without the staggering yield problems that plague LCD technology."
At the moment these displays are created sandwiched in glass, but to be released commercially, they need to be able to be set in plastic. Still mighty impressive. The CDT website has a lot of technical papers on how these LEP's work, and interesting read.
"I'll take the red pill. No! Blue! AAAaaaahhhhhhhhh"
- Monty Python meets the Matrix
lag time too high, lose the rythm.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
I have nothing to say except for the fact that I find this slashdot news topic immensely boring.
Why not coat the plastic with a glow in the dark dye? Most things I have seen continue to glow respectibly well unless they are in the dark for a long time. Just leave the thing on your desk and let it recharge for a few hours.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
...has bigger problems than keeping up with :(
new tech. Read a book or something.
How much power does it take? Will it be the next wave of laptop/PDA monitors?
Better yet, will they eventually make a 60" monitor of the stuff to put on the wall? Q3 on a giant screen like that might be nice - assuming they got the resolution to about 2400x1800 or so...
DrQu+xum: Proof that the lameness filter doesn't work.
WHEW!
:)
Glad I got out of that deal when I could. Should've known that Circuit City guy was trying to rip me a new a-hole...
Come on guys, $15,000 for a TV? How much do you watch this crap anyway? Buffy only comes on so many times a week!
http://kered.org
I hope this comes out and it isn't vapor...Like almost everything else.
Fewer production stages, sure. But doesn't it rely on a resource that is more scarce (oil instead of silicon)?
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
It is also possible, in principle, to print the switches on a roll of plastic foil in a continuous process.
It sounds so cool.. but it looks like they're trying to hedge their bets and not really give any idea of when this could really work. Sounds like flexible flat-panel type displays are still a long ways off.
*sigh* And I was so looking forward to getting one, too...
Have you read the Moderation Guidelines Addendum?
By definition, most polymers(plastics) are bendable. Sincethere is no rigidity like silicon here, I suppose we could have televisions or computer screens wrapped on Basket balls.
I think its possible.
This also brings cool,cool applications into my mind. If I had a TV - T-shirt, I could have a video cam on my back and show It up front. In effect, I'm Invisible!!! hahahah!
But, definitely, Plastics are the future, and If one projects a little bit further, you'll see we're all heading towards mimicking nature.
"Science fiction is nothing but Reality in Future tense"
(do check out http://iotaspace.net )
And don't forget to add another $1000 for having the necessary plugs moved to your wall if your really want it wall-mounted...
I saw an advertising where a couple had a flat TV installed to the ceiling over their bed. I wonder how the TV was getting the necessary juice and antenna.
Ni!
Current active matrix displays use amorphous silicon thin film transistors as pixel drivers. This means that the backlight has to pass through both the silicon film and the liquid crystal itself. The combined attenuation is quite high and a very bright backlight is required.
If this polymer semiconductor is more transparent than amorphous silicon this could result in significant power savings on the backlight to achieve the same brightness.
You might remember this article and the slashdot discussion about it claiming that the Transmeta processor improve battry life help that much because the display is the real power hog. Any improvement in display power consumption will be very much welcomed.
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Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
"Twenty-five signatures turns the most frightful stupidity into an opinion" -Kirkegaard
Where have you been? Screen savers have been unnecessarily on modern monitors for years now. People just like having them.
Can the display be reflective instead of emitting? I think a display will be much less power consuming if it doesn't have to generate light. A reflective surface comes with several advantages: near-perfect replication of hardcopy colors, static images are easier to keep (photographs), cool body armor (or tank armor) that just shows the image behind it rather than emitting the scene behind it.
Anyone who's had the pleasure of doing color calibration between their monitor, scanner, and printer will realize the value of being able to view an image as reflective, thereby eliminating the large differences in the RGB gamut and the CMYK gamut.
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Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
I couldn't help but notice the display was a single color.
That bothered me, too, but when I clicked on the link to download a high-rez version of the picture, I noticed another picture available whose caption described a technique for achieving color displays.
The possibilities of a flexible display are intriguing: Imagine a large-form-factor display, say 4' by 3', that you could unroll like a windowshade or a portable film projection screen. And if this stuff is orders of magnitude cheaper than LCD, maybe I'll be able to have a really huge desktop (1.6 m x 1.2 m) that's really my desktop! :o)
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
Anyone who can "plunk" $15,000 down to buy a TV is going to hang around and wait for the price to drop or wait for impending technology... They want it now and the got the $$$. When (if) this technology takes off, I'm sure they'll go out and spend another $15k to get one of them too...
The plasma screen can then be consigned to its other major use... replicating modern art in a dingy hallway somewhere...
'sapientia potestas est'
Prof. Richard Friend of Cambridge Univ. Physics Dept. has done research on LEPs since about 1990. In his lecture I went to last year he mentioned co-operation with big companies, especially ink-jet printer manufacturers for cheap & fast production, but I forgot whether Philips was one of them. It would be interesting to know if all the different LEP projects around share a common basis (Prof. Friend? :) or if they're completely separate.
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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Maybe the fabrication cost problem will be cracked. But you can't tell from a demo of an experimental prototype.
For predator transparency, you'd also need an array of cameras and complex control algorithms to allow others see through you. Maybe they'll come up with polymer CCDs as well.. ;}
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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
But to say here's a dinky thumbnail, and the only other option is to give us your name adress and etc. to get a big ol' 300dpi image is disgusting. If they put a mid-range image and another link saying "Newspapermen who don't value their privacy click -here- for a really whomping big image," that would be better.
All kings is mostly rapscallions. -Mark Twain, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Have you thought of the military implications of what you are suggesting? Both from a camouflage and the more dodgy covert possibilities... Consider the effects on identification of criminal suspects. The crime is comitted, they head round the corner and come back out in a totally different-coloured outfit. On-the-street identification would become a matter of faces. Assuming you couldn't polymerise your face... Safety is an interesting feature of this- The police could turn up to accidents in their standard dark coloured jackets, then have a bright yellow police badge appear on the back in cases of low visibility!
The light-emitting elements will also be significantly cheaper, and as has been pointed out, will require less power, fewer manufacturing steps, and will be capable of creating much larger displays in the future than Plasma or any other silicon-based technology:Light-emitting polymers broaden display options. In addition, companies like Cambridge Display Technology are working on ink-jettable organic light-emitting polymer technology that will allow the manufacture of cheap displays of any size, allowing entire animated video billboards.
I'd pay $500 every 3-5 years for a 60-inch(or larger) screen.
Read a preview of my novel CYBERCHILD at www.smartalix.com/cyberchild
not_cub
q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
1) odd idea:
It is actually a cool think to imagine ourselves wearing light flexible plastic screens that'll just display fashioned pictures, colors or drawing and will be able to coordinate their aspect to the others detected clothes (The network would then be the suit). This also reminds me of Fantastic Four's unstable molecul clothes that changed of aspect (and size but this doesn't apply here) on their carrier.
Finally, imagine if we get "hacked" and then display some advertising on our back without even noticing it.
Will the future introduce us to an application of the push technology where ladies will subscribe to fashion-channel in order (1) never to wear the same-looking clothes (2) never wearing the same as the other channel subscriber ?
2) more serious bit:
Also about wearable, does this technology allow the development of flexible touchscreen ?
This'd sure be a huge technology leap.
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Trolling using another account since 2005.
If this is the same stuf, and I think it is.... the "Plastic" balls that make up the display are small enough that they can be suspended in liquid. Per a story on ZDTV (Tech TV?)Someone has already managed to "Print" a full color display on a sheet of paper with inkjet tech. the materials are cheap enough that we could see billboards in this stuf.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
cambridge (UK) firm do this with polymers(plastic)
light emmiting polymers (LEP)
old hat they are building so that they can deliver a process to partners NOW
they aim @ doing TV + Mob phone screens full colour and HD with low power
regards
john jones
(a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
I expect these billboards and tshirts to comeout when I've got grand children!
My version of the article is at http://iotaspace.net
On a more serious note, consider what this could mean for military applications. Camoflage which adjusts itself to your environment. How easy would it be to disguise a vehicle or aircraft coated with it.
Probably directly related to you're inability to take responsibility for your actions(AC post).
Here is looking forward to lovely LEPs (Light Emitting Ploymers) replacing all the damned CRTs and LCDs.
And for all you naysayers...I have a hard time picturing all the possible uses for this stuff, should it be possible to make it bendable. My prediction is that LEPs are going to change the appearance of the whole world.
Possibility 1: LEP wallpaper; imagine you want to change the color of your room...suddenly your whole house is as customizable as your computer's desktop...housethemes.org anyone? how about carthemes.org?
Possibility 2: The chameleon suit from predator, that instantly becomes any outfit you want it to be.
Possibility 3: the one-page daily newspaper, with every page in full color, fully customizable.
Not to mention all the advertising possibilites. ugh, distracting full motion billboards everywhere you go.
Epson has ALREADY developed a printer that will print RGB LEPs onto a sheet of glass...and Nokia should be releasing phones with the new LEP (full-color) screens shortly.
This is the link for the company that has created the process.
--"You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
I interpret that as a large area of a single color, not multiple colors, because it's between a single pair of electrodes.
You can get a 1k lumen XGA-resolution projector from Infocus, weighing 4.8 lbs, for about $6000.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There is some quite cool work going on in Edinburgh Uni making very small very high definition colour screens which we could see in products soon.
there is one thing to consider when using plastic instead of silicon. A lot of people like to leave their tv's and even their monitors on for an extended period of time. The problem there is that electronic equipment heats up the longer it is left running. Fans or no fans, if some of the internal parts, like transistors, are plastic they will heat up. The downfall to this is, even though they are going to be cheaper, they may have to be replaced more often. Where is the efficiency in that? Yes I know it would be a lot more resonable then getting a plasma screen, because they are way over priced. I would rather pay the extra to have the silicon parts then to have something that may not last very long.
That's a rip off. You can get a 10 foot projection (note: not rear-projection) television for that much. Does 800x600, too.
Yeah, but the plasma TV is going to have a higer contrast ratio, and thus can be viewed with more ambient light in the room. It will also not be as noisy as the projector (no big-ass heat/light source to cool with a loud fan).
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